Helen | Betrayal Weekly

Summary

Betrayal: Weekly

Episode: “Helen” | Betrayal Weekly

Host: Andrea Gunning
Guest: Helen Naylor
Release Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of Betrayal Weekly, host Andrea Gunning sits down with Helen Naylor to share the astonishing story of Helen's childhood, defined by her mother's chronic illness—a story that, after decades, Helen would discover to be a devastating deception. Through exploring Helen’s life in a small English town, her parents’ illnesses, the loss of her father, and eventually her mother’s death, the episode reveals the unraveling of a web of lies that shaped Helen’s identity. This is a story of shattered trust, psychological manipulation, confronting harsh truths, and finding resilience and self-worth in the aftermath.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Childhood Under the Shadow of Illness

• Small-Town Beginnings and Family Life
  • Helen describes growing up as an only child in a small Midlands town where “you basically knew everybody” (03:28).
  • Family home: a yellow 70s semi with a bright blue door and distinctive “swirly brown carpets” (03:42).
• Parents' Health Declines
  • Her father suffered heart and lung problems, including cardiomyopathy and asthma, eventually developing emphysema (04:18).
  • Her mother, Eleanor, was diagnosed with ME (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome): “The most common symptom is extreme tiredness, making any activities difficult” (04:53).
  • Both parents became unable to work, shaping Helen’s identity as a “child of two disabled people” (05:48).

Caretaker and Enmeshment

• Caretaker Role and Emotional Responsibility
  • From a young age, Helen took on the responsibility of caring for both parents, especially her mother: “I was responsible for my parents’ happiness and my parents’ emotional stability” (08:21).
• Mother-Daughter Dynamics
  • Helen’s world revolved around her mother’s needs and illnesses.
  • She idolized her mother: “I talked to her about everything. I absolutely adored her. I thought she was perfect” (07:47).
  • Boundaries blurred: “I lost track of where my mum’s needs ended and where hers began” (10:19).
  • Her mother directly influenced Helen’s tastes and identity: “She used to tell me my likes and dislikes… I defer to her opinion” (10:38).

The American Holiday – A Glimpse of Normalcy

• Break in Routine (11:27 – 14:10)
  • At age 16, a family trip to America brings a miraculous transformation in her parents’ health.
  • Helen’s awe: “America has cured my parents. America has made them better” (12:44).
  • Disillusionment upon their return: “She was back in that wheelchair being wheeled back… as if the last two weeks hadn’t happened” (13:02, 18:27).
  • Sets up a pattern of misplaced hope and confusion that lingers for years.

Young Adulthood and New Family

• University and Independence
  • Helen escapes her insular childhood via a scholarship, “I hadn’t been given any life skills by my parents” (19:36), but her caretaker skills translated into self-sufficiency (20:07).
• Meeting Peter and Building a New Life
  • Helen meets Peter, who “just understood the situation that I was in in a way that no one else understood” (20:25).
  • Quick engagement and marriage; mother reacted with mockery, not care or concern (21:11).
• Father’s Death and Aftermath
  • Father’s long illness and eventual death pushes Helen into depression, heightened by her mother’s lack of empathy: “It was her moment and it wasn’t about me” (23:50).
  • Lifelong role of emotional caretaker continued after her dad’s death (24:28).

Mother’s Decline and Estrangement

• Mother’s Parkinsonism Diagnosis and Neediness
  • Her mother's new illness takes center stage: “She just wanted to talk about Parkinson’s disease” (25:32).
  • Eleanor’s need for care intensifies, moving into a nursing home after frequent falls (25:59).
• Manipulative and Abusive Behavior
  • Incident during a visit: Eleanor feigns collapse and emotionally abuses Helen, calling her a “little bitch”—“It was kind of terrifying” (27:33).
  • Helen decides distance is necessary: “Having contact with her was more damaging” (29:10).

Death and Aftermath

• Complex Grief and Search for Meaning
  • Helen is shocked and conflicted at her mother’s death after their estrangement: “It’s just such a complex grief… It was worse than my dad… so much more complex” (30:38).
• Beginning to Write and Read the Diaries
  • Helen starts writing a memoir and reads her mother’s daily diaries written from age 12 on (31:38, 32:03).
  • Initially finds them “about the basics… there’s no real feelings” (32:20).

Discovering the Truth: A Web of Lies

• The Line That Changed Everything (33:53, 38:06)
  • Key revelation: “She writes, I have found my illness” (33:53, 38:06).
  • Helen realizes her mother actively sought out, requested, and constructed her diagnosis of ME—then performed illness for years (38:27).
  • “She was recording how ill she is every day and yet… she’s been apple picking or… shopping all day” (38:55).
• No Physical/Mental Illness Found by Doctors, But a Pattern Emerges
  • Helen uncovers evidence of deliberate deception and performance (39:56-41:01).
  • Seeks to understand why. The diaries reveal her mother’s narcissism and self-obsession—“She talks about how beautiful she is… how slender her hands are” (41:42).

Uncovering Abuse and Revising History

• Childhood Abuse Documented in Diaries
  • Shocking discoveries: Eleanor had drugged Helen as a baby, neglected her, and possibly broke her arm (43:43-44:47).
  • Documentation was emotionless: “It’s just so emotionless. She’s so cruel. She doesn’t try to hide anything” (44:31).
• Father’s Role and Complicity
  • Helen reflects on her father’s inaction and the complex dynamic between her parents (45:19-46:11).
• Lifting the Burden of Guilt
  • Realizes her existence didn’t cause her mother’s decline—this was always in motion: “This was always going to happen. It didn’t matter whether I was there or not” (46:33).

Coming to Terms and Moving Forward

• Diagnosis: Munchausen’s Syndrome
  • Recognizing her mother’s pattern as Munchausen’s—a mental disorder involving self-induced or faked illness for attention/sympathy (47:04-47:38).
  • “For women with narcissistic personality disorder, it often looks like victimhood… who questions an ill person?” (47:38).
• Reframing the American Holiday
  • Realizes her mother’s “health” in America was a choice, and even her father hadn’t actually improved—Helen had believed the constructed story (48:19-48:36).
• Power Dynamics
  • Powerful reflection on parental influence: “You can’t underestimate the power that a parent has over a child…” (48:36).

Reclaiming Identity and Helping Others

• Writing and Publishing
  • Published memoir: My Mother, Munchausen’s and Me (50:31).
  • Receives messages from “probably a hundred people… Some people have told me I’ve explained their life to them” (50:48).
• Healing and Self-Discovery
  • Ongoing process of finding herself after years of emotional suppression: “It’s taken me until the last five years to start to get back to who I am…” (52:00).
  • Marriage as a source of healing: “Luckily for me, I picked the right guy. He’s a wonderful, faithful, fabulous person” (52:39).

Challenging Taboos

• Why Speak Out?
  • Helen’s motivation to share: “There’s this feeling that mums are good no matter what… And I really wanted to challenge that” (54:16).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Motherhood and Lies:
  • “If you need to accept the lie to live, then you accept the lie.” – Helen Naylor (02:43, 49:57)
• On Realization:
  • “She writes, I have found my illness.” – Helen Naylor (33:53, 38:06)
• On Discovery of Abuse:
  • “She drugged me. I was six months old and she feeds me Chinese food washed down with whiskey.” – Helen Naylor (43:43)
• On the Power of Narrative:
  • “My story of how I am the child of two disabled parents and have cared for them, that’s actually a lie.” – Helen Naylor (40:36)
• On Coming to Terms:
  • “So much of who I am had to be hidden. It’s taken me until the last five years to start to get back to who I am. What do I like? What do I want to do? Believing that my opinion matters and that I matter enough to be looked after.” – Helen Naylor (52:00)
• On Challenging Cultural Assumptions:
  • “There’s this feeling that mums are good no matter what... And I really wanted to challenge that.” – Helen Naylor (54:16)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Helen describing her parents and upbringing: (03:28 – 05:57)
• Helen’s caretaker role and relationship with her mother: (07:47 – 10:19)
• The transformative American holiday: (11:27 – 14:10)
• Leaving for university and meeting Peter: (18:59 – 20:53)
• Death of Helen’s father and aftermath: (22:05 – 24:28)
• Mother’s move to nursing home and manipulation: (25:59 – 27:33)
• Discovery of mother's death and impact: (29:47 – 30:38)
• Helen reading her mother’s diaries: (31:38 – 33:53)
• The diary line: “I have found my illness”: (33:53, repeated 38:06)
• Uncovering the long con and abuse: (38:27 – 47:38)
• Identifying Munchausen’s: (47:04 – 48:19)
• Helen’s journey to recovery and writing success: (50:31 – 52:00)
• Helen’s closing reflection on motherhood and betrayal: (54:16)

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Final Thoughts

Helen Naylor’s story is a raw, intimate glimpse into the lifelong effects of parental deception and emotional manipulation. Through the discovery of her mother’s carefully constructed illness—and the diaries that recorded it all—Helen unearths both the truth and her own resilience. Her candid account highlights the destructive power of hidden mental illness and the generational impact of family secrets, while offering hope to others living in the shadow of betrayal.

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Transcript

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[Helen Naylor]

There's this feeling that mums are good. No matter what, mums are good. Even if they do the wrong thing, it's because they love you so much. If you need to accept the lie to live, then you accept the lie.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, A show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Today we're telling Helen Naylor's story. Helen grew up in the midlands of the uk.

[Helen Naylor]

The place where I was born was a really little town, so you basically knew everybody. And I'd walk through town and bump into 10 people I knew.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was an only child. Her parents were Eleanor and Alan.

[Helen Naylor]

We lived in a really nice three bedroom semi detached which was painted yellow with a bright blue door. They have very 70s taste in decor, so like swirly brown carpets and very peach. If there was a color choice, it was peach.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen's parents were older than her friend's parents.

[Helen Naylor]

Mum was 35 when she had me. My dad was over 40 and at the time that was quite a big deal.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen was very young when her dad's health took a turn for the worse.

[Helen Naylor]

When I was 7, my dad was diagnosed with heart and lung problems. He had cardiomyopathy and asthma that eventually became emphysema.

[Andrea Gunning]

Not long after her dad's diagnosis, Helen's mom, Eleanor, also got sick. She stopped getting out of bed and stopped being able to play with Helen. She was diagnosed with me. Myalgic encephalomyelitis, also known as chronic fatigue syndrome. It can cause muscle and joint pain, dizziness and headaches.

[Helen Naylor]

The most common symptom is extreme tiredness, making any activities difficult. Going for a shower, going to work, you can not sleep well, you can have problems cognitively.

[Andrea Gunning]

ME can cause debilitating exhaustion. It's chronic and there is no cure. The disease sometimes occurs after a viral infection, kind of like a long Covid. Treatments are designed to help patients manage their symptoms and learn to adjust to a much slower pace of life.

[Helen Naylor]

My mom used to say if she wanted to do something, she'd have to spend a week resting to prepare to do that thing. And then a week after resting to get over it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mom retired early because of her illness. So from the age of seven on, Helen grew up with two sick parents. Her life revolved around their illnesses.

[Helen Naylor]

It completely shaped my life. I was the child of two disabled people and that was my identity.

[Andrea Gunning]

While her friends were in first grade learning to read, Helen was worrying about her parents, especially her mom.

[Helen Naylor]

Although I knew that my dad's illnesses were more serious, life revolved around my mum.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mom's chronic fatigue took over their family's life completely. Eleanor slept for 18 hours a day and didn't even have Enough energy to walk to the mailbox.

[Helen Naylor]

She wouldn't walk me to the end of the road. We're talking like a small road with a corner shop at the bottom. And she wouldn't walk me there because she couldn't. She would be in bed every afternoon that I remember. We didn't go out at weekends.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the rare occasion that they did leave the house together, they had to adapt their activities around her mom if they went shopping. Eleanor rode a mobility scooter as a teenager.

[Helen Naylor]

That was so embarrassing. Like already I had these parents who were older and they stood out. And now she was on this scooter like hurling around the shopping center. I was just so mortified.

[Andrea Gunning]

But over time, Helen got over the embarrassment and learned to accept her mom. Helen became her primary caretaker because they didn't have any extended family nearby. And Helen's dad spent most nights at the pub drinking.

[Helen Naylor]

My dad was a really isolated figure. He didn't have many friends. He wasn't at work, he didn't have close family members. He was a functioning alcoholic, 100%. I can't remember seeing him anything but a happy drunk. He wasn't aggressive, but undoubtedly he was an alcoholic.

[Andrea Gunning]

So Helen and her mom leaned on each other. It was them against the world.

[Helen Naylor]

I had a really close relationship with my mum. She was my best friend. I talked to her about everything. I absolutely adored her. I thought she was perfect, absolutely perfect.

[Andrea Gunning]

But her mom needed a lot of.

[Helen Naylor]

Support and there was a sense of if my mum said jump, then you had to jump.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen would come home from school and go straight to her mom's bedside. She'd sit on the edge of the bed and tell her mom about her day. Then Helen would make her mom a snack and set up a place for her to rest on the couch.

[Helen Naylor]

We would watch some TV together and drink a cup of tea. I felt very, very responsible for her. I was responsible for my parents happiness and my parents emotional stability.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eleanor's ME was debilitating. But over time she found other people who struggled with the same symptoms.

[Helen Naylor]

She was part of an ME group in the town and ended up leading it. And so every week she would have to sort of run these meetings. She'd do all this research to then write newsletters for the ME group.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen was proud of her mom for finding purpose and community even though she was struggling with her disease.

[Helen Naylor]

She actually won an award for being a health champion.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen's mom went to bed early every night.

[Helen Naylor]

My mum would go to bed, my dad would go down the pub and I was just left to entertain myself. It was important that I was silent because if I made any noise, then I would wake my mum. So I would watch TV with subtitles on and no sound.

[Andrea Gunning]

When her own world in her little yellow house got too small, Helen. Helen escaped into her dream world. She loved to write.

[Helen Naylor]

I wrote a lot of stories. I wrote a story about a girl who went into her loft and disappeared into a wonderful alternative reality with a happy family. I used to dance around the garden singing. I'm sure the neighbors loved it.

[Andrea Gunning]

One day when Helen was 8, she overheard her mom talking about her dad's health.

[Helen Naylor]

I heard my mum say, the doctor said he could just drop dead at any minute. I remember switching round and looking at her absolutely horrified. And that weighed on me for the rest of my childhood.

[Andrea Gunning]

Hearing that shifted Helen's mindset. Even as a child, she felt responsible for her mom. She also learned to be extremely tuned into her mom. She tried to do whatever she could to make her happy. Over time, Helen lost track of where her mom's needs ended and where hers began.

[Helen Naylor]

She used to tell me my likes and dislikes. I liked salad, I liked strawberries. Those were my favorites. I defer to her opinion.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen learned to look to her mom for answers. She idolized her. As a teenager, Helen missed out on typical teenage experiences because as soon as school ended, she went home to take care of her parents.

[Helen Naylor]

In my teens, my average day would look like I would get up and go to school. My parents were both at home all day, every day. My dad would go to the pub every day. Then my mum would go for a nap every day. And then I'd come home and it was just all very insulated.

[Andrea Gunning]

But then when Helen was 16, there was finally a break from their quiet, careful routine.

[Helen Naylor]

We went on this like once in a lifetime holiday. We decided to go to America.

[Andrea Gunning]

They planned to spend a few days in Chicago, Then two weeks vacationing in Wisconsin and visiting extended family that lived there. Helen was worried about the strain the trip would take on her mom.

[Helen Naylor]

We went to the airport and she was in a wheelchair being wheeled to the airplane.

[Andrea Gunning]

But to Helen's surprise, we got to.

[Helen Naylor]

America and for two weeks she was just a normal mum. She was walking around, literally. We had a non stop holiday. We did something every single day. We went to water shows, water parks. We got up in the morning and went to a diner and then went and saw my cousins and then went out for the day and did something ridiculously American. And then we did something in the evening. It was Just this incredible experience for me, like life changing. And what was the most amazing was that my parents were both well. My mum said the heat made my dad's chest better.

[Andrea Gunning]

The climate also seemed to help with her mom's chronic fatigue.

[Helen Naylor]

I just thought, oh my goodness, America has cured my parents. America has made them better.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen was ecstatic. It was like she slipped into a better world where her parents were healthy and they were a normal, happy family. But the dream didn't last.

[Helen Naylor]

We got on the plane to come home and we got back to the UK and she was back in that wheelchair being wheeled back through the airport as if the last two weeks hadn't happened. It was a huge moment for me. I saw what my life could be like and I was like, why are we not going to America? Why are we not packing up and going? Because you could be well, you tell me all the time how you wish you could be well. We've got the answer. Lets just go. I prayed every night for my parents to be better. The idea that it was within grasp was just like I couldn't understand.

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[Andrea Gunning]

On a family trip to the U.S. helen's mom, who was normally chronically ill and stuck in bed, experienced major relief from her symptoms. Her dad, who had serious heart and lung problems, was doing much better too. On their trip. Both her parents had energy and they went on adventures together every day. Helen was overjoyed they had found a cure for her parents America. But when they got back to England, their symptoms became as debilitating as they were before. Helen wasn't ready to accept that this was their normal again.

[Helen Naylor]

It was a huge moment in that I saw what my life could be like. And I was like, why are we not going to America? Why are we not packing up and going? Because you could be. Well, you tell me all the time how you work. Wish she could be, well, we've got the answer, let's just go.

[Andrea Gunning]

But her parents didn't want to move to the us so Helen channeled her energy into doing well in school so that she could have a life of her own.

[Helen Naylor]

I did really well in my A levels and then off I went to university and I went to Nottingham, which isn't even the top three cities in the UK yet. I felt like I was in this enormous city that was totally overwhelming. I walked through town and I didn't see anyone I knew. That was really shocking to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen had spent her childhood and teenage years hyper focused on her parents health, living in a town where she knew everyone. When she left for college she was plunged into a completely foreign world.

[Helen Naylor]

I did feel really lost. It was scary, it was obviously brilliant because I never thought I'd get away. The freedom was incredible. At the same time, I hadn't been given any life skills by my parents.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen didn't have the same street smarts or life experiences as her peers, but she certainly knew how to take care of herself. She'd been doing it since she was seven.

[Helen Naylor]

So although it was a really steep learning curve, I had the skills to do it and I had the confidence that I'd been doing this forever and that I could do it again.

[Andrea Gunning]

Sure enough, Helen found her stride at college and during her first year there she met a boy named Peter.

[Helen Naylor]

I met Peter through friends. We used to meet up with another guy and another girl and just hang out. Peter would walk me home and we got chatting and I found out that his dad had also had heart problems and he just understood the situation that I was in in a way that no one else understood.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen and Peter began to spend more and more time together. The connection between them was instant.

[Helen Naylor]

We got together and we got engaged after six months. We got married 12 months later. It was all very whirlwind but at 21 you feel like a proper grown up, so that's what you do.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Eleanor was not welcoming to Peter.

[Helen Naylor]

She was very mocking about my relationship, like, are you going to call your lover? Do you love him, Helen? Are you in love with, with him? There was no safeguarding, there was no sort of like, well hold on, let me check this person out and see what I think of them. If you're going to marry them and like you're Going to marry them six months after you started dating them. Like, that's actually ridiculous. You're 20. My parents didn't do any of that. They were just like, oh, great, let's arrange the wedding.

[Andrea Gunning]

At first, Helen struggled to accept that Peter actually wanted to be with her.

[Helen Naylor]

I spent a long time thinking that I'd put on a mask when he met me and that I tricked him into marrying me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Shortly after Helen and Peter got married, Helen's dad collapsed and had to be rushed to the hospital.

[Helen Naylor]

His health declined significantly after that. So then he was on oxygen. The last two years of his life were, were a nightmare. He was just having heart attacks all the time. It would be like 4am phone calls saying, this is it, you've got to come. And I remember jumping in the car with my husband and rushing, thinking, are we going to make it? Are we going to make it?

[Andrea Gunning]

Her whole life, Helen had been afraid that her dad could die at any minute. But during those two years, the constant hum of worry grew into a fever pitch.

[Helen Naylor]

I went into a real period of depression, really, really struggled dealing with that situation. Me and my husband had visited one weekend. We got the phone call, then went straight upstairs to where he was in the ward. The nurse said, I'm really sorry, but he's passed away. And my mum just collapsed to the floor. And I don't even remember crying initially because it was all about looking after my mom and caring for her and making sure she was okay. I remember holding his hand and he was still warm. His eyes were open. And I was like, this is weird, his eyes are open. And my mom was so snappy with me and was like, well, just close them then. And I got really upset. It just sort of finally hit me and I said, I don't want to leave without him. And my mum said, well, this is it, isn't it, Helen? He's dead. Of course he's not going to come with us.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eleanor had no room for her daughter's grief.

[Helen Naylor]

This was her moment and it wasn't about me. After his death, she used to say to me, it was just your dad, but it was my husband. So every single occasion that could possibly bring up those feelings for her, I would send her flowers, I would call, I would really make a big deal of it. And for years, years and years, she didn't even acknowledge that Father's Day might be a bit difficult for me.

[Andrea Gunning]

As the years went on, Helen remained her mom's caretaker.

[Helen Naylor]

Because she was my mum and because I was an only child, it wasn't like I could just say, right, I'm married now. See you later. I couldn't let her go. I felt very, very responsible for her. We would have her to our house every Christmas and it would be really strained. I hated Christmas because Peter really, really struggled with my mum's behavior. My mum would be attention seeking and difficult, and I felt like I just had to keep the peace.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen and Peter had been trying for a baby and had suffered a difficult miscarriage. Finally, Helen became pregnant. But the pregnancy was quickly overshadowed.

[Helen Naylor]

At exactly the same time, my mum got a diagnosis of Parkinson's disease. The consultant called it mild Parkinsonism.

[Andrea Gunning]

Despite the early diagnosis, her mom's health was declining quickly.

[Helen Naylor]

She was getting worse and worse. So she was getting more medication. She was going to these Parkinson's support groups. She wasn't interested in how my pregnancy was going. She wasn't interested in what's happening, scans I'd had. She wasn't interested in me thinking about baby names. She just wanted to talk about Parkinson's disease.

[Andrea Gunning]

Soon, Eleanor required constant care and moved into a nursing home.

[Helen Naylor]

She started having falls, and it was happening so frequently that the paramedics were actually told on her notes not to take her to hospital.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen tried to be there for her mom. It was hard to see her struggling in this way. She visited the nursing home often, and one day they had plans to go shopping in town together. So Helen went to go pick her mom up. When she got there, her mom was sitting on the couch.

[Helen Naylor]

And then she sort of pretended to fall. It was very slow motion. And when she got to the floor, she said, oh, my goodness, did you see that? I just fell off the sofa. And I was like, not really. And she said, I need to go to bed. And I was like, okay, come on then. You know, I'll help you up and I'll put you to bed. And she said, I can't walk. You'll have to carry me. And I said, well, I'll help you, but, like, I can't carry you, you know, come on, get up. And she sort of turned demonic. She was sort of crawling along the floor and saying, fine, I'll crawl there then. Is this what you want? Is this what you want from me, you little bitch?

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mom had never used a word like that before, and it shook Helen.

[Helen Naylor]

It was kind of terrifying. So I ended up hiding in the kitchen thinking, what am I going to do? I tried calling Peter and he was like, just leave. But I didn't feel like I could leave.

[Andrea Gunning]

After that, Helen stopped visiting her husband, Peter, supported her decision to pull back from her mother.

[Helen Naylor]

We were having to kind of back off her more and more, and we would just be like, okay, she can't be around the children anymore.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eleanor's health was declining rapidly. Doctors were constantly scrambling to help her and find answers.

[Helen Naylor]

She bound her hands up into fists so that she couldn't unclench them. She wasn't eating. She was just getting worse and worse. She was referred to a hospital where they did every test under the sun. They literally tested her for everything. And eventually they said that they had found nothing physically or mentally wrong with my mum, but she would die in the next few months. By that point, I'd spent three, four years banging my head on a brick wall, trying to get someone to listen to me, to say, this isn't right. Something's wrong, and I need you to find out what's going on. And they basically said to me, we've tested her for everything and we can't help.

[Andrea Gunning]

Doctors had run out of ways to help her mom, and Helen had too.

[Helen Naylor]

I tried to stay in contact with her, but she didn't really want it, obviously. It was a massive decision not to go and see her in her final months. I decided it was better this way. I mean, that's a horrible decision to make and not something I took lightly. But actually having contact with her was more damaging.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was painful for Helen not to visit. She still loved her mom very much. She got occasional updates from the medical team. One day, the call was different.

[Helen Naylor]

I'd had this phone call a few days earlier saying, your mum's got a mouth infection. I was like, okay, so will you let me know how that goes then? And, like, call me back in a few days? And they were like, well, yeah, it might not be that long. A few days later, they rang me and they said, your mum's died.

[Andrea Gunning]

For a moment, everything stood still. Helen's mom had been the center of her attention for her entire life. Her mom's sickness had been the guiding force in every decision she made. And now it was all over. With her gone. Everything was all mixed up. Nothing made sense, not even her own grief.

[Helen Naylor]

It was a shock. It was a real shock because we were estranged. I think quite a few people thought I wouldn't grieve, or perhaps I wouldn't feel sad about it. It's just such a complex grief. It isn't straightforward, it isn't normal. It was worse than my dad. My dad. I was sad, but it was really straightforward. I missed him and I was sad. That he was gone. Whereas this was so much more complex.

[Andrea Gunning]

Ever since she was a little girl, Helen used her writing as a tool to make sense of her messy and confusing world.

[Helen Naylor]

That's a way of me making sense of things and getting things straight in my head. So it was kind of a natural reaction for me to write about what had happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen began writing a book about her life with her mom. And as a part of her writing process, she decided to read her mom's diaries.

[Helen Naylor]

I knew that my mum had written daily diaries. I'd seen her writing them when I was a teenager. So she'd written it from when she was 12 till the year before she died. And she was on it. She really didn't miss a day. And so I decided that I needed to read them as part of writing this.

[Andrea Gunning]

This wasn't one or two diaries. Her mom had made daily entries for 55 years.

[Helen Naylor]

So obviously that is a huge amount to read. So it took a while. It took me probably at least a year to read them. And I did have to have breaks because it was quite a lot.

[Andrea Gunning]

At first glance, these entries were boring.

[Helen Naylor]

She just writes about the basics, the weather, where's she been, what's she done? There's no real feelings if you read my diaries from when I was a teenager. Gosh, the teenage angst that would seep out of those pages. And yet there's nothing like that in my mum's diaries. She doesn't fancy anyone. She doesn't, like, have any friendship problems. There's no feelings.

[Andrea Gunning]

Reading the diaries became part of Helen's daily routine. She was slowly reading her way through her mom's life from when she was 12 years old onwards.

[Helen Naylor]

I read it like I'd read a novel or something. I just always had one with me. They were tiny, so I could just keep them in my handbag and whenever I had five minutes, I just read a few pages.

[Andrea Gunning]

Over the years, Helen had heard her mom tell the story of her life many times. She knew it well.

[Helen Naylor]

What I expected to find was exactly what she'd told me. She'd had a really hard childhood with a really difficult sister and difficult parents, and then she'd had a really successful time at work, met my dad, decided to have me, and then from that point, she'd got ill, and that was just completely wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen started reading passages in her mom's diary that diverged from the story she'd been told. Then Helen saw the line that stopped her in her tracks.

[Helen Naylor]

She writes, I have found my illness.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Making the.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Helen Naylor]

She writes, I have found my illness.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen read and reread the words to make sure she wasn't imagining it, but there it was, in her mom's handwriting. For the first time, she learned the real story of how her mom got diagnosed with me.

[Helen Naylor]

She goes on to nag the doctor to diagnose her, and then very quickly, she's into getting the sick, getting mobility, scooters.

[Andrea Gunning]

The picture came into focus. Her mom had handpicked her illness and then spent years performing it. The diaries revealed an elaborate deception, the tale of a double life that her mother lived, one where she was perfectly healthy.

[Helen Naylor]

Yeah, one part she's recording how ill she is every day, and yet it doesn't actually match up to what she's doing. So she'll say this was a really bad day and yet she's been apple picking or, you know, this was a really terrible day. I went shopping all day.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was possible for Helen's mom to fake having me because there was no definitive way to test for it. Diagnoses were primarily based on a patient's own account of their symptoms. And most of the time, people don't lie to doctors. Most people don't choose to be bedridden.

[Helen Naylor]

At the time, it was almost like you don't have anything else, so it must be this.

[Andrea Gunning]

For her whole childhood, Helen was consumed with worry watching her mom lay in bed in chronic pain. When Helen went off to school, she was constantly concerned about how her mom would take care of herself. But the diary told a very different story.

[Helen Naylor]

The things she said to me and to other people about how she needed to rest and plan and do all that, that's just out the window none of it was true. She was going apple picking and she was going on city trips and going shopping. That really hurt. My whole childhood was shaped by the me, what she couldn't do and it wasn't true. She could have just been a totally normal mum.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen couldn't believe what she was reading. She felt sick.

[Helen Naylor]

I was unraveling what had happened and what had happened to me. My story of how I am the child of two disabled parents and have cared for them, that's actually a lie. We could have been living a normal life for years.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen's mom lived a lie, but it didn't make sense to Helen. Why would her mom choose this?

[Helen Naylor]

She had money, she had health, she had friends. She could have had a really good life and yet she chose something so destructive.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen scoured her mom's diaries trying to find an answer.

[Helen Naylor]

It was like she was totally unveiling herself. Her mask sort of slips and she writes about how everyone is special, but I'm really special and just goes into this rant about how special she is and how no one has appreciated how special she is.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen started to get an understanding of her mom's inner world.

[Helen Naylor]

She had been a narcissist from birth. There's always a huge vanity, so she talks about how beautiful she is and how long her legs are, how slender her hands are, in a way I can't even imagine writing about myself.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen's mom had always told her that she'd gotten sick after giving birth, birth to her. That before that she had lived a happy, healthy life. But her diaries told a different story. As Helen read, it was like she was being reintroduced to her own mother. Eleanor's pattern of fake illnesses had started when she was a child.

[Helen Naylor]

What was really striking for me was that from the beginning she was obsessed with illness. In her 20s and we're talking like early 20s, she, she's constantly going to the doctor for things, breast scans, brain scans. Has she broken this? Has she done this? You know, everything. She's being constantly checked for and she doesn't just take what the doctor says. She needs to go to the consultant and have the highest opinion on things. I really didn't expect the obsession to be so early.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eleanor's view of her own life was at best self centered and at worst delusional. Her entries paint a picture of a world where she is in complete control. Like when she wrote about getting pregnant with Helen.

[Helen Naylor]

Nothing about wanting a baby, nothing about thinking about a family. As one day she just writes in her diary, decided I was pregnant. So she's some sort of omnipotent God, she's created a pregnancy.

[Andrea Gunning]

As she read on, Helen came across something else that was incredibly disturbing. Events from her own childhood that she had no memory of. Her mom had abused her growing up and she documented it in her diaries.

[Helen Naylor]

She drugged me. I was six months old and she feeds me Chinese food washed down with whiskey. When I was a week old, she went shopping and just left me at home. It's neglect, but it's also abuse and I really didn't expect to find that. What was really hard about reading it was that there'd been months of her talking about the weather or going to the supermarket and then suddenly there would be, she's drugged me or she's. She's in some way injured me. It's just so emotionless. She's so cruel. She doesn't try to hide anything which is interesting or make excuses for anything.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of Helen's earliest memories was falling off a chair and breaking her arm. But as she read through her mom's diaries, she learned that didn't happen the way she remembered it. Her mom talks about having broken Helen's arm herself when Helen was only two.

[Helen Naylor]

According to the diaries, she did it. I definitely broke my arm. My mum probably caused it and I don't know how.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen learned that social services got involved and somehow her mom explained the injury away.

[Helen Naylor]

Reading that when I had small children and I've got a very recently two year old, I can see how small her arm is and I can see how easy that would be to break as an adult.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen's mind turned to her father. He had been there and witnessed a lot of the abuse, so in many ways he was complicit. But it seems like Eleanor had a lot of power over him too.

[Helen Naylor]

I can make excuses for him. I can say that he was a man of a different era who relied on the fact that his wife was the mother and that she would know everything and do the right thing. I can say that he was isolated and that I suspect she said she'd leave him and take me with her. Does that excuse it all? No. Do I think he had a really awful life? Yeah. So it's just like holding all of those things at the same time.

[Andrea Gunning]

Growing up, Helen had carried immense guilt for ruining her mom's life. She knew her mom had gotten sick after she was born and she felt like everything was her fault. But now Helen revised the story of her life. Her mom had gone down a dark path long before she was born and none of it was her fault.

[Helen Naylor]

It was really like, oh, gosh, this hasn't been the story that I thought it was going to be. I really believed I'd ruined her life, that she'd had me and I had broken everything, that if I hadn't existed, she would have had a happy life. And that's not what I read at all. This was always going to happen. It didn't matter whether I was there or not.

[Andrea Gunning]

Every neatly penciled, diligently dated diary entry was like a puzzle piece. At first, it was a scrambled and confusing mess. But slowly, pieces started to click into place. Helen saw that everything the narcissism, the faked illness was all connected. Her mom was not sick with me or Parkinson's. She was mentally ill with a condition called Munchausen syndrome. People with Munchausen's fake or exaggerate medical conditions as a means of gaining control, sympathy or power.

[Helen Naylor]

What I realized was that for women with narcissistic personality disorder, it often doesn't look like masculine narcissism. It often looks like victimhood. It's about getting attention and about being the poor little woman. Munchausen's is kind of perfect for that, because who questions an ill person and says, I think you're making it up? Who would do that? Without the diaries, I think I would still be in the dark. I don't think I would have properly been able to put all the pieces together. There's lots of events that I see.

[Andrea Gunning]

Differently now, like the trip to America where her parents seemed miraculously cured. Her mom could choose when she felt well based on what was convenient for her, and her dad hadn't actually been doing as well as her mom told her.

[Helen Naylor]

My mum said to me, dad is better in the heat. And yet at the same time, I remember him gasping for air because it was so hot and he couldn't breathe. And I didn't realise that those two things were opposites until I wrote my book and my agent said to me, which one was it? And I was like, oh, my God. Goodness. I've held this for 30 years and never put it together. My dad wasn't better there, but she told me that he was, so I believed her. It seems incredible. I don't think you can underestimate the power that a parent has over a child. I was talking to my daughter about a cushion downstairs once and I said to her, the gray one, you know the gray one? She was like, you mean the blue one? I was like, no, the gray one. The gray one. She was like, oh, okay. And she said she was trying to convince herself that this blue cushion was gray because I'd said that it was gray. And when I got downstairs, I was like, oh, it's not gray, it's blue. Sorry, I got that wrong. But the power the we have as adults over children to say that this is this, that even when you're looking at something, you're like, my mum must be right, so I must be seeing this wrong. If you need to accept the lie to live, then you accept the lie, right?

[Andrea Gunning]

Slowly, Helen began writing the book about her mom.

[Helen Naylor]

It took me quite a few attempts to write it because I didn't really know how to put it all together. She wasn't a cartoon villain.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen pulled together all the strands of truth and fiction that had shaped her world growing up. Her mom's version of events, her own memories, and the diaries. She published her book, which is titled My Mother Munchausens and Me.

[Helen Naylor]

I thought I was going to be the only person in the whole world who had been through this. That turned out to be completely wrong. I have had probably a hundred people contact me from all over the world. Some people have told me that I've explained their life to them. And, you know, I've had people saying, I'm 60, and I've just realized what's happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen realized she had concrete answers that many people in her situation never get.

[Helen Naylor]

I've got the diaries, and I've got so much proof in a way that a lot of people don't. I think I'm quite unusual in that a lot of people who've been through something like this unsurprisingly, go down some really dark roads with their mental health and with ways of coping with that. And for some reason, I've got through this and been able to write about it, which is quite unusual, but is amazing because I can hopefully verbalize, for people who can't say it, what's happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen will never be able to get those years of her childhood back.

[Helen Naylor]

It's a huge betrayal. So much of. Of my life was sacrificed to what she needed, which was actually what she wanted. So much of who I am had to be hidden. It's taken me until the last five years to start to get back to who I am. What do I like? What do I want to do? Believing that my opinion matters and that I matter enough to be looked after.

[Andrea Gunning]

Helen says her relationship with her husband has been healing.

[Helen Naylor]

Luckily for me, I picked the right guy. He's a wonderful, faithful, fabulous person, which is very janny it's taken me a time, long, long time to believe that he loves me because I just didn't think I was lovable. It's taken me a really long time to accept that he wasn't tricked, that he did want this, and that we both make each other much happier than we'd be without each other.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eleanor went to extreme lengths to control and abuse her daughter to keep Helen's world small and make sure it would always revolve around her. But she underestimated her daughter's resilience.

[Helen Naylor]

I do think in a way my mum neglecting me was a real downfall because it meant I became so self sufficient. It just absolutely defeated everything she wanted me to be. I was supposed to fail at a thing, but I'd learned to look after myself.

[Andrea Gunning]

Today, Helen has built the life she always dreamed of. She, Peter and their kids live together in Nottingham where Peter and Helen met and fell in love. They go on weekend trips with their kids, play the TV loudly and treasure every day they spend together. We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

[Helen Naylor]

A really big thing for me to say was that mothers aren't necessarily good. There's this feeling that mums are good no matter what. Mums are good. Even if they do the wrong thing, it's because they love you so much. I'd had so many people saying to me, this can't be true, she's your mum. As if being a mum and being a bad person don't go together. And I really wanted to challenge that.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I came up with my plan, which was I'm gonna buy a gun.

[Helen Naylor]

That's my way out.

[Andrea Gunning]

Walking into this gun store thinking that.

[Helen Naylor]

I cannot believe this is my life.

[Andrea Gunning]

I can't believe this is my life. I was floored. I had never felt so helpless in my life. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail. Or follow us on Instagram betrayalpod. You can also connect with me on InstagramdreaGunning to access our newsletter, View additional content and connect with the Betrayal Community. Join our [e-mail] we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Laborde with additional production from Ben Federman. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing and mixing by Matt D' Alvecchio additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines music library provided by MIB Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. ABC Wednesday it's the CMA Awards Live.

[Helen Naylor]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Andrea Gunning]

With performances by Lamy Wilson, Kelsey Ballerini, Zach Topp, Riley Green, Ella Langley, Kenny Chesney, Megan Maroney, Brandi Carlisle and the hottest collabs, Miranda Lambert and Chris Stapleton, Jabuzzi and Steven Wilson Jr. Big Extra.

[Helen Naylor]

Plug featuring Liv Cohen.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's country music's biggest night hosted by your girl Lainey Wilson. The CMA awards live Wednesday 8, 7 Central on ABC and next day on Hulu. Did a GLP1 help you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes. The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in. There's before weight loss, after weight loss and the after After Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow. To learn more, visit face after weight loss.com that's face after weight loss.com this is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. JBL Tour Pro 3 earbuds are for those who don't conform to the standard. Yeah, I mean if you want to get into some touchscreen technology, how about the smart charging case Clear sound? These are not standard things. You to get them with the JBL Tour Pro 3 baby. And I love the sound of JBL when it goes. These earbuds are packed with innovation because you can't stand out by following others Touchscreen Smart charging case for one touch control, instant EQ customization, true adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want first doesn't follow. Grab a [e-mail] you know what a.

[Helen Naylor]

Girl'S best friend is not diamonds.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her lawyers. From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a fiery new legal drama. It's our own boutique women representing women you can't afford to miss.

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[Helen Naylor]

Stand up straight and breeze into that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Room like a storm no one saw coming. Hulu Original Series All Stars Fair. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.

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