S3: BONUS EP 1 — An Update from Stacey and Tyler

Summary

Betrayal: Weekly – Season 3 Bonus Episode 1: An Update from Stacey and Tyler Rutherford

Release Date: May 8, 2025

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Introduction and Context

In this compelling bonus episode of Betrayal: Weekly, host Andrea Gunning revisits the harrowing story of Stacey Rutherford and her son Tyler from Season 3. The episode delves into the ongoing aftermath of Stacey's separation from her ex-husband, Dr. Justin Rutherford, who was convicted of sexually abusing Tyler and attempting to orchestrate a murder-for-hire plot to silence him.

Update on Justin's Appeal

Andrea begins by informing listeners about new developments in Justin Rutherford's legal battle. Stacey shares, “[...] the appeal was happening. What is he appealing exactly?” at [05:12]. Justin is challenging both the length of his sentence and the court’s decision to indefinitely prohibit him from contacting his children, even after they reach adulthood.

Stacey reveals her anticipation of Justin’s moves, stating at [04:38], “Oh, I absolutely knew he was gonna appeal. There's no way he wasn't gonna find some kind of loophole.” Her foresight underscores the prolonged legal struggle she faces in seeking closure and justice.

Stacey's Emotional Journey

The episode poignantly explores Stacey's emotional turmoil as she grapples with Justin's persistent legal maneuvers. At [06:07], Stacey expresses her resolute stance on Justin’s access to their children:

“I don't care if his rights get given back to him to talk to them. It still has to go through me. And I don't have any desire for him to speak to my children.”

Stacey discusses her coping mechanisms, including writing letters to Justin as a form of emotional release. However, these letters often remain unsent, with Stacey confiding at [07:30], “I've done it a few times in the last few months and never mailed anything.”

Her anger surfaces when addressing Justin's minimal contributions despite his financial capacity. At [10:01], she laments:

“I think I was more just like, what? What the fuck? Like, this is what we're worried about, like, him making sure that the kids have a gift from him.”

Stacey also touches upon her struggles with isolation and mental health, admitting at [18:03]:

“I have been not the greatest lately... I kind of let myself get in a rut.”

Financial Struggles and Frustrations

With Justin no longer the family’s breadwinner, Stacey details the financial strains she endures. In her letter to Justin, Stacey writes:

“Nanny asked me the other day if you could have the kids signed up for a charity that provides toys for children of incarcerated parents. And I can't help but think the last thing we need is more toys.”

This sentiment highlights her frustrations with Justin’s inability to support the family financially, juxtaposed with his focus on symbolic gestures that do little to alleviate their day-to-day struggles.

Tyler's Advocacy and Personal Growth

Tyler Rutherford emerges as a beacon of resilience and advocacy in this episode. He shares his commitment to supporting male survivors of trauma through platforms like TikTok, aiming to build a community that fosters healing and solidarity. At [24:38], Tyler passionately states:

“I want to reach out to men and make a change in the men's space. Let's push this. Let's build an awesome community together, guys. Let's do this.”

Receiving overwhelming positive feedback, Tyler reflects on the impact of his openness, saying at [25:31]:

“It’s heartwarming to read. I know that I achieved what I wanted to with the podcast. When I get something like that just to help someone else for so long.”

Despite contemplating military service, Tyler’s dedication to fitness remains a cornerstone of his identity and healing process. He expresses his aspirations to become a personal trainer, viewing the gym as his sanctuary:

“The gym is my safe space and where I go to feel safe.” ([27:47])

Conclusion and Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, both Stacey and Tyler offer profound reflections on their journeys. Stacey acknowledges the non-linear nature of healing, recognizing moments of progress amid lingering anger and pain:

“I can see change and I can see that I have happy moments and that I enjoy life and things like that.” ([19:53])

Tyler underscores his ongoing battle with trauma, emphasizing the importance of continual personal development and the pursuit of happiness:

“If you are not at the end of your road. I'm still probably not even 75% of the way down. Probably around the middle.” ([31:05])

Their stories collectively highlight themes of resilience, the enduring impact of betrayal, and the relentless pursuit of healing despite the shadows of the past.

Notable Quotes

• Stacey Rutherford [05:25]: “I don't care if his rights get given back to him to talk to them. It still has to go through me. And I don't have any desire for him to speak to my children.”

• Stacey Rutherford [10:01]: “I think I was more just like, what? What the fuck? Like, this is what we're worried about, like, him making sure that the kids have a gift from him.”

• Tyler Rutherford [24:38]: “I want to reach out to men and make a change in the men's space. Let's push this. Let's build an awesome community together, guys. Let's do this.”

• Tyler Rutherford [25:31]: “It’s heartwarming to read. I know that I achieved what I wanted to with the podcast.”

• Stacey Rutherford [18:03]: “I have been not the greatest lately... I kind of let myself get in a rut.”

• Tyler Rutherford [31:05]: “If you are not at the end of your road. I'm still probably not even 75% of the way down. Probably around the middle.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Betrayal: Weekly offers an intimate glimpse into the ongoing struggles and triumphs of Stacey and Tyler Rutherford. Their unwavering strength and commitment to overcoming betrayal serve as inspiring narratives of resilience and hope for listeners navigating their own challenges.

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Connect with Betrayal: Weekly

For more updates and stories from the Betrayal community, follow Glass Podcasts on Instagram and subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. Share your thoughts and support by rating and reviewing Betrayal: Weekly—your five-star reviews help us reach more listeners.

Betrayal: Weekly is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Stacey Rutherford, Tyler, and their friends and family for their courage and openness in sharing their stories.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

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[Stacy Rutherford]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

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[Tyler Rutherford]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

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[Tyler Rutherford]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

Lowest student teacher ratio? No problem. The best cafeteria lunch in the district for your nine year old food blogger. Would it surprise you if we said yes? Homes.com we've done your homework. He'd always say to me, I wouldn't do what your first husband did to you and just walk out on you and basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating to be told you'll never have to worry about that again. Stacy it's just that like how dare you. How dare you promise so many things that you had to know deep down you were never going to be able to follow Through.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Hi, guys. It's Andrea. In just two weeks, we'll be back with a brand new season of Betrayal. We'll be telling one story over several episodes. I'll take you to Colorado, where we'll do a deep dive into a betrayal of family and community. But before that, we wanted to give you an update on our family from last season. In season three, we told you the story of Stacy Rutherford and her son Tyler. Stacy was a single mom when she met Justin. She knew on their first date she would marry him, and she did. He was funny, adored her children, and had a bright future as a family physician. Together, they had two more kids. Stacy loved Justin and the family they created. After years of uncertainty, she finally felt grounded in stability. But Justin was hiding a dark secret. For years, he was sexually abusing Tyler, Stacy's eldest son. Once he was caught, he tried to organize a murder for hire, plot to kill Tyler, and prevent him from testifying in court. For these crimes, Justin was ordered to spend decades in prison. We'll hear from Tyler later in the episode, but first, I wanted to share a conversation I had with Stacy over the winter holidays. She called to let me know that there was an update in Justin's case. Their family's legal battle wasn't over yet. The last time you walked out of the courtroom was for the murder for hire that happened last year. And that was like, okay, this is finally, like, we can close the book and move on with our lives. Did you think that you were done with this?

[Stacy Rutherford]

Oh, I absolutely knew he was gonna appeal. There's no way he wasn't gonna find some kind of loophole. I mean, my sister and I have had tons of conversations where she said to me, the law library is gonna know him. He's gonna be there. He's gonna try to find a loophole. You just need to prepare for this to be a regular thing for him to try to find ways out of this.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Stacy eventually spotted a change on Justin's docket sheet, and then she got formal notification in the mail. The appeal was happening. What is he appealing exactly?

[Stacy Rutherford]

From what I understand, he is appealing the length of the sentence, that he believes it was too harsh, and he's appealing his access to the children.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Originally, Justin was sentenced to 26 years and 10 months to 70 years in prison, with 12 years probation to follow his sentence. The judge also ordered that Justin was to have no contact with Tyler or his two younger siblings for the length of his sentence, even once they became adults. Are you prepared for that being changed?

[Stacy Rutherford]

I wanted to Give them that window of them being little to them to get to 18, you know, to say, okay, I can make an informed decision whether or not I want to talk to my biological father or not. The judge extended it past that 18.

[Tyler Rutherford]

For the length of his sentence.

[Stacy Rutherford]

For the length of his sentence. And the only thing that Tyler and I had talked about was that they should be able to decide at 18 if they want to speak to him or not. As far as him getting anything granted back to him. You know, when they're children, at the end of the day, I have custody of them. I'm the one that would have to accept the phone calls from him. I'm the one that would have to put money on my account for them to speak to him. So I don't care if his rights get given back to him to talk to them. It still has to go through me.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Right.

[Stacy Rutherford]

And I don't have any desire for him to speak to my children.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Stacy Rutherford]

And, you know, I will support them if that's something that they want when they get of an age, to make those kind of decisions where they know everything that happened. Because I understand that they probably will maybe someday want that.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Right. I can understand and hold space for when they are adults.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Tyler Rutherford]

You know, as a mom, like, wanting to look to the future of your kid, having agency as an adult and being able to give them that agency. I can understand that.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Stacey has not had contact with Justin since she learned about his plot to kill Tyler. It's been over two years. But recently she started writing letters to him as a way of dealing with her emotions.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I've done it a few times in the last few months and never mailed anything.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Right.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I would write it, and I would hold onto it, and then I would just throw it away.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Stacy Rutherford]

One of the ones that I threw away was pretty vicious. And my sister was like, yeah, I don't think you should send that. Cause you might go to jail for a threat. Because it was just in the moment. I was very angry. I was having one of those days.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Like, where is all this anger and emotion coming from recently?

[Stacy Rutherford]

I just think when you are going through everything first being found out, you're, like, living on adrenaline and you're just in survival mode. And then as soon as the trial stuff starts, then you're dealing with all of that. And I don't think you really have time to sit down and deal with, like, everything. So you just put first what needs to be put first. I think after all the stuff was done with both of the Court cases and everything like that. Things got felt settled down a little bit, but I think that's when all the other shit starts to kick in, you know, the missing things and hurting and then being angry.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Stacey decided to mail one of her most recent letters. In this letter, she mentions Nanny D. Nanny's like a mother to Justin, and she's the only one who's remained in his corner. Stacy also writes about her financial situation. Justin was the breadwinner in the family. With him gone, Stacy's been left holding the bag, supporting her two young children on her own. Here's the letter. Nanny asked me the other day if you could have the kids signed up for a charity that provides toys for children of incarcerated parents. And I can't help but think the last thing we need is more toys. And if in the next few years, we may not even be able to afford a home to put those toys in. Yeah, that's my reality these days. That's your children's reality these days. I see no light at the end of this tunnel. I remember you telling me I'd never have to live like this again, and I'm worse off. So when you heard about the kids charity of toys of incarcerated parents, what was your first reaction?

[Stacy Rutherford]

Anger. I just. I think I was more just like, what? What the fuck? Like, this is what we're worried about, like, him making sure that the kids have a gift from him. And, oh, but, you know, isn't it nice that you're allowing someone else to buy that for you to give to them so that you don't have to spend any of your money that you need to spend on your lawyer for, you know, a gift for your kids?

[Tyler Rutherford]

Justin has a private attorney, and this infuriates Stacey. He somehow has the money to pay for his appeal, but has contributed nothing to the care of their children.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I don't know. It just. It rubbed me wrong, and I was just salty for a little bit about it.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Right. It kind of just seems like he wants to be able to contribute in this way, but he's not understanding the larger impact that all of his actions have put you and the kids in. Like, it just felt like you were shaking him with this letter of like, you don't really know how bad things are because of everything that you've done.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I am able to buy my kids things. It's not like I'm totally destitute. But you're using a charity for children who may not get a single thing when you know good and well you have money in your account. So you want to come in and be fun Daddy you know. Ooh look, Daddy sent us a present when you really didn't do anything behind that.

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[Tyler Rutherford]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Tyler Rutherford]

In December, right around the holidays, we caught up with Stacey Rutherford, whose story we highlighted in season three. Recently, she wrote a letter to her ex husband, Justin, while he remains in prison. Stacey shared that letter with us. There's this theme in your letter where you talk about, you know, you promised me that things were going to be different. Like, I'd already gone through a divorce. I had already gotten pretty far on raising two kids to end up in this place. That's a really intense cycle to be thinking about.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Well, it's like I remember saying to him when we were dating jokingly, I'm not trying to be a single mom again to two small children. I've done it. I don't want to do it again. Okay. I'm just letting you know that you're either going to be married to me or I'm going to soak the life out of you for child support. So just be prepared for whichever one you want. And, you know, we would. He'd always say to me, I wouldn't do what your first husband did to you and just walk out on you and basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating to be told, you'll never have to worry about that again, Stacey. You'll never have to, you know, worry about anything like this and to have more children. And I love them, and I wouldn't trade that, of course, but, you know, I wouldn't have necessarily decided to have two more children in my late 30s if I thought that I was gonna be raising them by myself.

[Tyler Rutherford]

It's so interesting. It's like, no matter the amount of conversations and things that you think that you're navigating and communicating, your brain just doesn't go to this worst case scenario. You just don't go there.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Oh, no. It's just that, like, how dare you? Yeah, how dare you promise so many things that you had to know deep down you were never gonna be able to follow through. You know, it's. It's just, it's. I don't know. There's days that I think to myself that I'm not the mom that I want to be. I don't want my kids to remember that I cried a lot or that I was sad or that I was just angry all the time. Because I've gotten, I think, to a level of anger a lot lately. Like, I just feel like I'm really angry at the world and men and people, and I don't want them to remember that I'm just angry. Yeah, I'm just angry that so many of these things were taken away from all of us.

[Tyler Rutherford]

It's impossible to even ask this, but, like, what are you gonna do about this anger?

[Stacy Rutherford]

Well, to start, I have, like, not been the greatest lately about my going to, you know, therapy, and I've kind of let myself get in a rut lately. Like, I find myself, you know, declining plans all the time. You know, I'm good. I'm just gonna stay home or, oh, my bra's already off, girl. You know, I ain't putting that back on. But I also think to myself, is that contributing to me? Do I need to force myself to do these things? Yeah, because am I just making it worse by staying home and festering on the fact that I'm alone and isolating and things like that? But I don't know, I just. I think that was part of writing the letter to him, was I just. I just want you to know, this is the kind of stuff that you have left me with.

[Tyler Rutherford]

All of it feels like such an injustice, and sometimes you just need to, like, scream it from the mountaintops. And the person that really needs to hear it, you just want to just like shove, you know, put it out there and scream it so that they hear you.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I mean, it did make me feel better at some point to write it. It just happened to be the one that I mailed. I don't know, I just must have been impulsive that day because the rest of them never made it.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Progress is not a straight line. And there's a lot of similar rhetoric in this letter of where you were like in the beginning of a lot of things, you know, and you're gonna make strides and getting yourself to a different place and then come back to these feelings that you have regarding this. And one day I really do hope you find that whatever feeling that you're longing for, you get it on your own.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Tyler Rutherford]

And I do believe that you will get there.

[Stacy Rutherford]

It's just like you said, it ebbs and flows. I felt like it's really hung on lately. But I also say to my sister too, sometimes, like I look at where I am now and I look at where I was three years ago and there is a difference. So I can see change and I can see that I have happy moments and that I enjoy life and things like that. I don't just sit around, you know, and cry all the time. I obviously go have fun, but I just have my moments.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Yeah.

[Stacy Rutherford]

You know, and it hits at just different times. And this here, lately it's been hanging on.

[Tyler Rutherford]

After the break, we'll hear from Stacy's son, Tyler.

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[Tyler Rutherford]

This episode is brought to you by opill, the first over the counter daily birth control pill available in the US. Opill is a daily birth control pill that's FDA approved, full prescription strength and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. This is the moment to take control of your health and reproductive journeys. Because Opill is birth control in your control. Opill is available online and at most major retailers. Use code betrayal for 25% off your first month of [e-mail] not everyone who.

[Andrea Gunning]

Handles your personal information is going to be as careful as you are. And it only takes one mistake to expose it to hackers and identity theft. Maybe that's why there's a new victim of identity theft every five seconds in the United States. Fortunately, there's Lifelock. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning Lifelock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan. If you lose money due to identity theft. You can't control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with Lifelock, you can help protect it. Act now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFElock and use promo code IHEARTRA or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply.

[Coca-Cola Advertiser]

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[Tyler Rutherford]

Before we go, we wanted to share an update on Stacy's son, Tyler. Over the last year, he's been sharing a lot of updates on his own.

What's up? My name's Tyler. I've made a goal with myself to post on TikTok as much as I can.

His goal is to be an advocate for male survivors of trauma.

I want to build a community for men out there, especially men like me out there. I've had a very traumatic life and went through some crazy things, and ever since then I felt kind of lost. And I know many men out there that have went through the same thing. Can feel that exact same feeling, even if you haven't been through that exact traumatic experience or been sexually assaulted. I want to reach out to men and make a change in the men's space. Let's push this. Let's build an awesome community together, guys. Let's do this.

Through betrayal and through Tyler's posts, his story has reached a lot of people. We've received so many comments and emails calling Tyler an inspiration for speaking up. My producer met with Tyler and asked him how it feels to get all that positive feedback.

It's crazy. I expected a little bit, not maybe quite as much as I've gotten, and it's heartwarming to read. I know that I achieved what I wanted to with the podcast. When I get something like that just to help someone else for so long.

Tyler thought he'd take what Justin did to him to his grave.

I think about it all the time. Like, my plan to just never say anything because that's what was gonna happen. And I was doing pretty damn good at it for quite a while.

But when it came out that Justin had abused Tyler's friend, Tyler's family was concerned that he, too was a victim. They kept asking him until he eventually disclosed to his aunt. Many male victims of sexual abuse keep what happened to them a secret for their whole lives. For example, Anthony Edwards, an actor Tyler spoke with in season three, didn't disclose for decades.

[Stacy Rutherford]

I lived most of my life in fear because my experience of having been assaulted as a kid set me up for being afraid and not trusting in people, places, or things. And it wasn't until I was 52 years old that I start talking about it. And looking at.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Was one of the worst feelings to get it forced out of me. But, like, now I'm so happy I did because I know how bad I feel sometimes. And I can't imagine how crazy my mind would be trying to process all this. At 52, I still feel the pain of holding it in for seven, eight years, however long, letting it out at 16. And that's like. That's young. I'm still a kid compared to these guys. Holding in 60 years, I can't imagine. No.

I also wanted to hear about Tyler's career. When we last talked, he was considering going into the military. But it's always been clear to me that fitness is Tyler's first love. He even did a TikTok about it.

The gym is a great release from everyday stress, a release from life. And the last few years, I honestly have felt kind of lost and. And I Just feel like I'm always scrambling to find myself, and the one place where I feel like I can really find myself is in the gym. The gym is my safe space and where I go to feel safe.

When I was with Tyler last, he took me to the gym and we had a great time, so I was excited to learn.

I just recently pulled the trigger on a personal trainer certification. Just because, like, fitness is my one passion, I'd say, and I just love to make money off of it. Hopefully I'll be finishing that soon and can get a job as a personal trainer.

Earlier in this episode, Tyler's mom, Stacey, told us that Justin is appealing the length of his sentence and his ability to contact his children. We asked Tyler what he made of Justin's appeal.

I'm not surprised, honestly. But, I mean, that's all prisoners are going to do that he can continue to try. Ain't shit gonna work. I mean, I. I really don't see anything happening. Worse comes to worse, he wins some sort of appeal and I have to go to trial. And now that I'm older and I've. I've grown to balls to talk out to millions about my story. He's really screwed himself at this point, and I think if we go to trial, I'm just gonna put him away for even longer. So I'm not worried about any of that, really. He can keep trying.

At this point, Tyler feels sorry for Justin.

I was talking to my mom last night about his computer, and I was like, I wonder whatever happened to his computer.

Tyler's referencing the fact that Justin encrypted his computer when he knew the authorities were onto him. Tyler still thinks about that years later.

She was like, oh, they got into it a few months ago. And I was like, you mean to tell me our government, it took them three years to get into his computer? I was like, that there alone just tells me the potential he wasted. The fact that you were smart enough to crack down a computer so hard our own government could not get into it for three years. How did he do that? The fact that you did that and then put yourself in jail, I mean, I think we would have been one of the richest families in the world if he would have not touched me. Like, if he could have just not been a pedophile, we would have been so successful. I tell mom all the time, he really fucked shit up. Smartest person I know. I'll still say it to this day, by far. I'm not saying in. In all senses, don't think I'm Putting him on a high horse. I'm just saying, with as much as he did, I can still admit he was pretty damn smart.

At the end of the chat, we asked Tyler what else he wanted people to know.

I want. I want people to know I'm not. I'm not down in the dumps. But I'm also not perfect. I'm not at the end of my road. I'm still probably not even 75% of the way down. Probably around the middle. I'd say I'm probably around there. I don't know. It's. It's hell a lot of the time. It really is. I mean, I. I wake up and I feel like immediately I just know the right things to do to stop that now. I just gotta get there. I just want people to know that I'm not perfect. And anyone else out there that's going through some similar stuff, you just gotta keep working on it. I mean, I know it sucks, it really does. I'd love to not have to constantly work on myself and just not have this trauma and be quote, unquote normal. But it's part of life and you just gotta deal with it. So you gotta work hard to be happy.

If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail.com Also, please be sure to follow us at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content, news and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Produced by Caitlin Golden. Our I Heart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Special thanks to Stacey Rutherford, Tyler and the rest of Stacey and Tyler's friends and family. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Zolfecchio. Editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by MIB Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Hold up, we got one play. Everything we work for comes down to this quick question. Speaking of workouts, how would you rate your athletic program? Bro, we're in the middle of the state champions. Oh, so like a B then. Dude, get out of our huddle. Well, at holmes.com, we leave it all on the field to get you detailed information on local schools.

[Tyler Rutherford]

Off the field.

[Stacy Rutherford]

Off the field Copy. All right. Go sports. How'd he even get in here? Holmes.com We've done your homework.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

Those were raisins, right?

[Andrea Gunning]

Next time use Amazon Pharmacy. We deliver. And no, those were not raisins. Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful.

[Tyler Rutherford]

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[Stacy Rutherford]

You're listening to an I Heart podcast.