S4: E10 — Courage

Summary

Betrayal: Season 4, Episode 10 — "Courage"

Release Date: July 24, 2025

Hosts: Andrea Gunning and Dr. Jennifer Fried
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts

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Introduction to Caroline Borega’s Story

In the climactic finale of Season 4, "Courage," Andrea Gunning and Dr. Jennifer Fried delve deeper into the harrowing story of Caroline Borega, whose seemingly honorable husband, Joel, a respected Colorado Springs Police officer, was unveiled as a perpetrator of severe betrayal. Joel's betrayal extended beyond infidelity; he was arrested for sexually abusing children and was found with stacks of child pornography in his living room.

Andrea Gunning [04:37]:
"I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. Season 4, Episode 10 Courage... we wanted to dive deeper into one aspect of Caroline's healing journey."

Understanding Betrayal Trauma Theory

Dr. Jennifer Fried, a renowned researcher and author of "Blind to Betrayal," introduces listeners to the concept of betrayal trauma theory, which she pioneered. This theory explores how individuals process trauma differently when it involves a trusted person betraying them.

Dr. Jennifer Fried [08:10]:
"Dr. Fried started compiling research on a specific form of trauma, the kind you experience when someone close to you breaks your trust."

Betrayal trauma occurs when a trusted individual's harmful actions cause psychological distress, leading victims to potentially block out or distort memories of the betrayal as a survival mechanism.

Dr. Jennifer Fried [09:02]:
"Betrayal trauma accounts for how we process traumas differently when they're perpetrated by someone close to us."

The Mechanisms of Betrayal Blindness

Caroline Borega’s journey illustrates betrayal blindness, a protective response where individuals subconsciously ignore or forget the betrayal to maintain essential relationships for survival.

Andrea Gunning [12:00]:
"We are programmed to fall in love with people we take care of... it's a good. It's a beautiful thing. It makes life worth living."

Dr. Fried explains that this mechanism is not mere denial but a deeply rooted psychological response to protect vital attachments.

Dr. Jennifer Fried [10:30]:
"Not seeing when someone close to you is betraying you. It isn't just denial. It's a very real psychological experience."

Darvo: A Perpetrator’s Tactic

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Darvo, an acronym for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender—a manipulation strategy identified by Dr. Fried.

Andrea Gunning [21:11]:
"The denial typically is aggressive... the attack is often an attack on credibility... and the RVO is the most insidious part."

Darvo allows perpetrators like Joel to deflect blame, undermining the victim's credibility and positioning themselves as the aggrieved party.

Caroline [22:34]:
"I start feeling guilty for asking him something that I factually see, and then I start doubting myself..."

This tactic not only silences victims but also fosters self-doubt, making it challenging for them to seek help or justice.

Impact of Institutional Betrayal

Expanding the scope, Dr. Fried introduces the concept of institutional betrayal, where larger entities like workplaces, schools, or governmental bodies fail to protect individuals or even contribute to the harm.

Andrea Gunning [33:11]:
"Institutional betrayal in its broadest sense is when the perpetrator of a betrayal is just something larger than one person."

Caroline experienced this firsthand when her husband's department did not support her upon his arrest, exacerbating her sense of isolation and betrayal.

Andrea Gunning [34:03]:
"After Joel was exposed, no one in the department came to Caroline's aid. She felt shut out and alone."

Institutional betrayal compounds the trauma of personal betrayal, leading to more significant psychological distress and hindering the healing process.

Steps Towards Healing and Institutional Courage

To combat betrayal and institutional betrayal, Dr. Fried advocates for institutional courage, which emphasizes transparency and accountability within institutions.

Andrea Gunning [35:43]:
"Betrayal really loves secrecy and really doesn't survive transparency very well at all."

By fostering open communication and addressing wrongdoings transparently, institutions can prevent the perpetuation of harmful behaviors and support victims more effectively.

Andrea Gunning [37:05]:
"Secrecy is corrosive... One of the best ways to inoculate people from repeating dysfunctional family dynamics is to really shine a light on them and be fully honest about what was messed up."

Caroline’s Path to Courage and Activism

Despite the immense betrayal, Caroline demonstrates remarkable courage by being transparent with her children about her husband's actions, breaking the cycle of secrecy and fostering an environment of honesty and healing.

Caroline [38:21]:
"I wanted to know everything. The truth hurt, but it was powerful."

Her actions not only aid her own healing but also serve as a beacon for others experiencing similar traumas, embodying the ethos that "the antidote to despair is activism."

Andrea Gunning [41:42]:
"She's sharing her vulnerability, her personal pain, all with the hope that it will help other people."

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Community Support

The episode underscores the importance of community and institutional support in overcoming betrayal trauma. Dr. Fried emphasizes that while institutions play a crucial role, personal resilience and activism are vital for healing and preventing future betrayals.

Dr. Jennifer Fried [42:00]:
"Caroline may never get that validation from the CSPD, but she is doing what she can to take healing into her own hands."

Betrayal: Season 4 concludes by encouraging listeners to seek support, remain transparent, and advocate for institutional changes to mitigate the impact of betrayal and foster a community of resilience and healing.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Betrayal Trauma Theory explains the unique psychological impact when a trusted individual betrays another, leading to mechanisms like betrayal blindness.
2. Darvo is a manipulative tactic used by perpetrators to evade accountability by denying wrongdoing, attacking the victim’s credibility, and reversing roles.
3. Institutional Betrayal adds another layer of trauma when larger entities fail to protect or support victims, highlighting the need for institutional courage.
4. Caroline Borega’s story exemplifies the journey from betrayal to courage, emphasizing the role of transparency and community support in healing.
5. Activism and transparency are crucial in breaking the cycles of betrayal and fostering environments where healing and accountability can thrive.

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline [22:49]:
  "I start feeling guilty for asking him something that I factually see, and then I start doubting myself..."

• Andrea Gunning [41:42]:
  "She's sharing her vulnerability, her personal pain, all with the hope that it will help other people."

• Dr. Jennifer Fried [10:30]:
  "It's a survival mechanism... betrayal blindness is the attachment system matters more if it's keeping you alive."

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For more exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions, join the Betrayal Substack community at betrayal.substack.com.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Danielle Fishel]

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[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

We wanted to let you know that this is our final episode of Season four and Caroline Borga's story. But don't worry, there's a lot more betrayal coming your way. We will be returning on Thursday, August 7th with a brand new season of Betrayal Weekly. Be sure to subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. And there's more Betrayal news if betrayal is your must listen, you should subscribe to Beyond Betrayal, our new substack community. It's free to join and packed with the extras we can't squeeze into the show. Our team shares behind the scenes conversations, never before seen videos and personal essays from the survivors you've met on the series, including Caroline, Stacey, Ashley, and me. Upgraded members can even jump into live chats with us. Ready to dig deeper? Click the link in the show notes or visit betrayal.substack.com hit subscribe and join for free today. Okay, now onto the show.

[Andrea Gunning]

There was a woman whose husband was eventually arrested for sexually abusing children in a school and the police found all these stacks of child pornography sitting around his living room in plain sight. And they interviewed his wife and she said she did not see them. She could have her eyes on them and not see them.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

I'm a drea Gunning and this is betrayal. Season 4, Episode 10 Courage in our last episode, we closed the book on Caroline's story. But before we end our season, we wanted to dive deeper into one aspect of Caroline's healing journey.

[Caroline]

Within a day of Joel's disclosure, I was seeking therapeutic intervention for myself and my kids and I am grateful for that therapist. She definitely was there for crisis intervention. That being said, though, there was never this term betrayal trauma, I never heard the term in our duration of therapy. I'm not faulting her, but I hadn't had anyone actually walk me through the emotions and that how I was feeling was actually a normal part of being betrayed. The reason why I wrote to the podcast was because listening to season one driving with my daughter was life changing.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Caroline was on a road trip with Nicole when they came across our first season of Betrayal. This was the first time either of them heard a professional speaking about betrayal.

[Caroline]

Trauma And I must have played that episode a dozen times. It was just a description that was so empowering and so relatable, and I just wanted to continue to have that connection, even if it was through a podcast.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

The shame, the guilt. Caroline thought she was alone in these feelings. She had no idea that there were others out there suffering from the same form of trauma. The people who've shared their stories in prior seasons and on the Betrayal Weekly podcast felt the same way.

[Caroline]

The person I had loved and been in a relationship with disappeared, and with him went three years of my life into a black hole.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

I was like, what's wrong with me?

[Andrea Gunning]

I was just heartsick, gut sick, heart sick. My whole body responded, and all I could think of was, who are you? How could you do this?

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

All these people experience betrayal trauma. It's the thread that binds all the stories we tell. And we got the opportunity to speak to the person who coined the term betrayal trauma in the first place. She's a retired research psychologist who pioneered the field of betrayal trauma. So to close out our season, we wanted to share parts of our conversation with you.

[Andrea Gunning]

My name is Jennifer Fried. I was a university professor at the University of Oregon most of my career, where I taught psychology and did a lot of research, specifically developing betrayal trauma theory, the concept of betrayal blindness, all the way through to institutional courage.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

After going to graduate school for cognitive psychology, Dr. Fried made her way to the University of Oregon.

[Andrea Gunning]

Some years into my time at the University of Oregon, I really changed, pivoted the kind of research I was doing to the psychology of trauma.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried started compiling research on a specific form of trauma, the kind you experience when someone close to you breaks your trust.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the time in the early 1990s, there was still within academic psychology a disbelief in the prevalence of trauma, particularly interpersonal, particularly sexual trauma, as well as its significance or importance. And I remember very well in around, oh, maybe 1991ish, I gave a talk in my own department about my new research and ideas, and people were just, like, looking at me like I had gone nuts.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Still, she kept going. She knew there was something here. Eventually, this pattern developed into a theory, a theory of betrayal trauma.

[Andrea Gunning]

A betrayal trauma is when somebody that you depend on and trust does something that harms you. It's that combination of harm with the nature of the relationship you have with the person, the victim, perpetrator, relationships.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Betrayal trauma theory accounts for how we process traumas differently when they're perpetrated by someone close to us. And there was always one aspect of Processing betrayal. That intrigued Dr. Fried. How people can block out experiences like childhood abuse or sexual assault, or how they can forget moments when they caught a partner in a lie.

[Andrea Gunning]

Betrayal trauma theory was always about understanding how and why people could forget seemingly extremely important experiences and events in their life. Very important traumas.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

This is something we've seen over and over again on our show. We've received emails from people of all ages, professions and backgrounds who say they didn't see what was right in front of them. Here's the thing. Not seeing when someone close to you is betraying you. It isn't just denial. It's a very real psychological experience, one that Dr. Freid has spent her career researching. She gave us an example she uses in one of her books.

[Andrea Gunning]

There was a woman whose husband was eventually arrested for. For sexually abusing children in a school. And the police raided his house and found all these stacks of child pornography sitting around his living room in plain sight. And they interviewed his wife, and she said she did not see them. She would look at the coffee table and she would not see them. She could have her eyes on them and not see them.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

When I read Dr. Fried's book, blind to Betrayal, I was struck by another story. A story of a woman who decided to visit her husband at his go to bar. She was waiting there to surprise him. And when her husband showed up, another woman approached him and kissed him. He explained it away and the wife forgot about the kiss for years. At first, these two examples seem unbelievable. How can people fail to see what's right in front of them or forget experiences entirely?

[Andrea Gunning]

How does that happen and why does that happen? And the answer that I provided, that I came to call betrayal of blindness, was that it's a survival mechanism.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Freid explained that our brains block out information that could threaten vital relationships.

[Andrea Gunning]

We are programmed to fall in love with people we take care of. And people we take care of are also programmed to fall in love with us. We have a really strong attachment system. And it's a good. It's a beautiful thing. It makes life worth living. Is this love that we feel. I mean, it keeps us alive.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Think of a child relying on a parent. The child depends on that parent for love, food and shelter. And the child trusts the parent to continue to care for them.

[Andrea Gunning]

But here's the problem. What happens if you've got an abusive parent? What happens if the parent is the betrayer? If you withdraw or confront, you risk not getting your survival needs met at all. Or you may get more abuse. It's not safe. The solution out of that is what I came to call betrayal blindness. The attachment system matters more. It's great to detect betrayal, but attachment matters more if it's keeping you alive.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Our brains are constantly making choices about what information matters.

[Andrea Gunning]

Most humans are amazing in how they filter information. We do it all the time. We sort information out as it's coming into the eyes and the ears and the nose.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

That filtering happens subconsciously. We don't notice it, but we've all experienced it. Like when you're in a crowded room.

[Andrea Gunning]

Even though there's 20 people talking at the same time. You're not going to hear other parts of the conversation, but suddenly your name pops out. Or, you know, if there's a really juicy topic they're talking about, some good gossip over in the corner, you might suddenly be aware of that conversation. All that time, your brain has been filtering out the information coming in and kind of deciding which parts of it to be aware of. Because we can't be aware of everything.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

At once, it can be unsettling to think about. But our brains are always selecting what we perceive and how we interpret that information. And when terrible things happen, our brains work to preserve important relationships. We can subconsciously delete information. Or sometimes even when we know the information. When we saw and experienced something firsthand, our brain can create an entirely new story.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's not just that we can block out information and not see things right in front of us or not remember things that happened. There are other ways we can twist reality. So for some people, the way they engage in betrayal blindness, they see the events happening, they remember it, but they twist around who's responsible. So they blame themselves, not the person who's harming them.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Like Dr. Freid explained, this is a survival mechanism. That's why she first conceptualized betrayal blindness using the parent child relationship, because it's an essential relationship for that child's survival. But adults experience betrayal blindness, too.

[Andrea Gunning]

For many people, their intimate marriage or partnership relationships have these same dynamics where one party feels very dependent on the other. They may be financially dependent, they may be emotionally dependent. They may have been betrayed themselves in childhood. Whatever it is, adults can also have terrible betrayal blindness. And sometimes that is also serving a major survival benefit. If you are dependent on your partner and your partner's betraying you, and you confront or withdraw, you risk potentially losing access to resources you need. It's serving an enormous survival benefit for many people in many situations, but it does come at a cost. If you don't see it, it's hard to stop it. It's hard to get help. It's hard to get justice. If you don't see it.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Darvo is an acronym that stands for deny, attack and reverse victim and offender. And it's a tactic that perpetrators can use when they're being held accountable for a misbehavior.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

We asked Dr. Frye to break down the elements of Darvo.

[Andrea Gunning]

The denial typically is aggressive, a little over the top, very angry. Denial, the attack is often an attack on credibility. It often takes the form of saying, you know, you were drunk or you're mentally unhealthy or there's something wrong with your memory. And the RVO is the most insidious part. This is reversing victim and offender. And this is when the true victim gets put into the offender role by daring to, you know, make this accusation.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Even just hearing this description, we thought of caroline's story, like the time she heard about joel having an affair with their tenant. Joel denied the accusation, and he even went with caroline to confront her.

[Andrea Gunning]

This psychopath has got me on the.

[Caroline]

Road to a divorce.

[Andrea Gunning]

My kids want me out of the house.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Instead of taking accountability, he made himself the victim. Then there was the moment Caroline confronted joel about lying about where he was in the middle of the night. He said he was at an accident scene, but his location on Life360 told a different story. Caroline described joel exhibiting the first element of denial.

[Andrea Gunning]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline]

That had to be a wrong cell phone tower pinging. And I was not even close to the there.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Then the second element. Joel attacked her.

[Caroline]

Why would you say that? Don't you think I want to be home?

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

And finally, the third element. Joel reversed the victim and offender. He made her feel as though she had done something wrong.

[Caroline]

I start feeling guilty for asking him something that I factually see, and then I start doubting myself and almost believing. Could. Could a cell phone tower ping me wrong on life 360. Is that even possible?

[Andrea Gunning]

We found that one of the consequences of being darvo'd when somebody does that to you Is blaming yourself. When people blame themselves, they're much more likely to go silent. And so if the perpetrator's goal is to get the victim to be silent, Darvo has that effect, too.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

This strategy worked on caroline. It kept her doubting herself instead of doubting joel. And darvo is not just a tactic used interpersonally. It's commonly used in trials.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's often a technique used by defense attorneys in, say, a sexual abuse case, where the defense attorney will very consciously deny, on behalf of their client the event happened and attack the credibility of the victim and then reverse victim and offender by painting the true victim as the offender in the situation.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

This also made us think of joel and how he shifted the blame onto his home life during his internal affairs interviews. We played Dr. Fried this tape from when he was investigated for sexually harassing reporters.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm sorry.

[Caroline]

It's all right.

[Andrea Gunning]

Things were good at home, and I think I fell into the trap of, you know, being excited about the attention. What he does in the clip is really puts himself into the victim role. You know, that crying and the way he's painting himself, you know, he's a person who we might want to feel sorry for. He sort of put himself in the position of the one being wronged.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

In this next clip, Joel goes even farther. When internal affairs demanded accountability for having sex in his police car. He put the responsibility of his rehabilitation on the police department. In his interview as part of the IA investigation, he said the following.

[Andrea Gunning]

We pay a lot of lip service about our employees as our family and all that, but I like to maybe somehow believe in that and recognize that I've had issues and I've had issues for a long, long time, and every day is a struggle and I want help. There may be a truth to all that in the sense that, you know, he has issues and it's been a traumatic job, but it's a way to deflect respons regarding his own behavior in the police car with this woman.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried can't speak to Joel's specific psychological profile, but she says in her research she's learned a lot about the kinds of people who use Darvo.

[Andrea Gunning]

People that use Darvo are quite a bit more likely to also engage in sexually harassing behaviors.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Once again, Joel appeared to align with the profile Dr. Fry developed. You may recall from an earlier episode, his behavior had grown so disruptive that he was eventually banned from the family doctor's office. Caroline learned the truth when she went to get tested for STDs.

[Caroline]

And so she does a full exam and she leaves the room. And when she came back in, she just had this horrible kind of fearful look on her face. And I just was sobbing and I said, you can tell I have something, can't you? You can already tell I have something. And she shook her head and she said no. And she said she was debating on telling me that Joel had essentially been blacklisted from seeing her because he had come in for different appointments before and had been inappropriate with his commentary and very sexualized with his commentary toward her. And I was mortified.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried offered more details about people who use Darvo.

[Andrea Gunning]

They are more likely to hold beliefs that blame women for being victims. And they are more likely to have certain personality characteristics, three in particular, that are often called the dark triad, narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

People with dark triad characteristics can be cunning, self interested, and manipulative. They often lack empathy and are willing to exploit others to achieve their goals.

[Andrea Gunning]

It doesn't mean if somebody uses Darvo, they are for sure any of those things. Just it's just much more likely.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried's research does offer one encouraging insight.

[Andrea Gunning]

We find if we educate people about Darvo, it reduces the power of Darvo. If people know that this is a pattern, they're not assuaged by it.

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, one kid's trying to pile drive a pillow and the other is trying to zip themselves into a backpack. Meanwhile, I'm trying to sign a permission slip with an eyeliner pencil because that's all I could find. That's why Mott's no sugar added applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch and are perfect for moments of stress. Made with real apples, no sugar added and the pouch? Genius. It's mess free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox, or after school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about and a good source of vitamin C too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day I handed one to my son mid meltdown. He took a deep breath, squeezed the pouch and suddenly he was calm. He had a tiny apple powered moment of Zen. Trust me, your future self will thank you Motz. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail].

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

We've been talking to betrayal trauma researcher Dr. Jennifer Fried. Her groundbreaking work has transformed how we understand and support victims of betrayal. One reason we wanted to speak with her for this season is her focus on a concept she's termed institutional betrayal.

[Andrea Gunning]

Institutional betrayal in its broadest sense is when the perpetrator of a betrayal is just something larger than one person. So families are little tiny institutions. It can be a family, it can be, you know, the workplace, it can be the church or, or the school or the government. It's the larger entity that is betraying. Somebody who is dependent on that institution, cares for it, very often loves the institution. So the Dynamics of betrayal, trauma all apply to institutional betrayal.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

After Joel was exposed, no one in the department came to Caroline's aid. She felt shut out and alone. Dr. Fried's research confirms this added layer of betrayal can be devastating.

[Andrea Gunning]

People are very vulnerable to being hurt by institutions they trusted and depend on. Fail to protect them, fail to respond well when they've been harmed in that institution. It's a whole new level of harm. I sometimes think of it like the second concussion, where, you know, it's bad to be hit in the head once, but then you go and you hit the head again. That's, you know, way worse.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried explains. The way we depend on institutions is a lot like the way we depend on people in our lives.

[Andrea Gunning]

Almost everyone has some institution they love. Most people love their family. Most people love their church, if they have one, or their school. They have emotional attachments, and the institutions can't actually love you back. But it doesn't stop people from loving the institutions. And that's not a bad thing that we love institutions, just a very human thing. But it does make us vulnerable to the harm of betrayal.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Dr. Fried found this idea of institutional betrayal deeply troubling, but it also felt like an exciting issue to tackle. One doctor for and her students could have a real impact on.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's actually easier to think about fixing an institution than fixing all the interpersonal violence in the United States. And we developed steps one can take to make institutions less betraying.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

These steps and the idea that institutions can prevent further betrayal make up Dr. Fried's theory of institutional courage. One of the main steps is transparency.

[Andrea Gunning]

Betrayal really loves secrecy and really doesn't survive transparency very well at all. In families where you've got institutional betrayal occurring, there's almost always secrets. There are things that aren't known, can't be talked about, and most therapists have been healthy. Family systems will tell you that secrets are bad for families, and the more they can be shared openly and transparently, the better. The more transparency, the less likely these betraying things will occur.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

This made us think of Caroline, too. She made the choice to be very transparent with her children about what Joel had done. We asked Dr. Fried for her opinion on this.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's interesting because if you were talking about 8 and 9 year olds, this would be a tougher issue. With children, you know, you have to be sensitive to their developmental stage and not overwhelm them with information. They may not really have a way to understand. By the time you're 16, that's no longer really an issue. 16, 17, and certainly 19, 20 year olds are fully capable of understanding these sorts of issues and are only going to benefit from honesty and only going to suffer from secrets.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

She also brought up that this isn't just a question of knowing or not knowing. Transparency in this case is key to ensuring the cycle of betrayal ends with Joel.

[Andrea Gunning]

Secrecy is corrosive. Secrecy allows dysfunctional, harmful patterns to repeat over and over again. One way to think about this is in terms of what's the probability that our teenager who grows up in a family like this goes on to repeat this dynamic as an adult versus the probability they go on to have a healthy relationship when they develop their own family? The more things are hidden, unspoken secret, the more likely they are to just repeat it. One of the best ways to kind of inoculate people from repeating dysfunctional family dynamics is to really shine a light on them and be fully honest about what was messed up, giving people that conscious awareness so they can choose not to repeat that.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

We played Dr. Fried a clip of Caroline's sons speaking about this issue.

[Andrea Gunning]

I wanted to know everything. The truth hurt, but it was powerful.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

And it was needed.

[Caroline]

That was the only way to move forward.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of the things that struck me in that clip is how much courage this young man has as well. It's not like he wants to learn that his father's done harmful things. It takes courage to learn that. But it does make it possible for him to support the other family members in a really meaningful way and for him to go and develop his own life without repeating this harmful pattern.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

The need for transparency also applies to larger institutions. Dr. Fried pointed to the issue of sexual assault in the military.

[Andrea Gunning]

What people who've experienced that very often say is that when they went to the authorities in the military to report what had happened, what happened after that from the authorities in the military was even worse than the sexual assault in the first place.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

When victims aren't taken seriously or investigations are dropped or covered up, it adds to the pain.

[Andrea Gunning]

We've compared groups of military sexual trauma survivors who went on to have an institutional betrayal experience versus ones who didn't. Everybody, you know, had bad effects from the sexual trauma, but the ones who went on to have institutional betrayal on top of that were doing much worse. In fact, we're even, even more likely to attempt suicide. That's how bad it is. So we know from now, dozens of studies that institutional betrayal harms people over and above the interpersonal betrayals they've experienced.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

The institution can counteract this by taking accountability for their wrongs. For being complicit or even directly aiding in betrayal.

[Andrea Gunning]

If they have the courage to really look at what's happened, then they can move forward in a healthier way.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

This examination is especially needed when the perpetrator walks away.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of the things that can really help Healing is having a community that validates the reality. Even if the betrayer never fully discloses or fully takes account, a community around them can.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Caroline may never get that validation from the CSPD, but Dr. Fried says Caroline is doing what she can to take healing into her own hands.

[Andrea Gunning]

There's a wonderful quote that I won't get exactly right from trauma theorist Judith Herman. The antidote to despair is activism, and activism can take many paths. It sounds like in Caroline's case, her telling her story is activism because she's being courageous. She's sharing her vulnerability, her personal pain, all with the hope that it will help other people.

[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

Thank you to Dr. Jennifer Fried. If you want to learn more about Betrayal, Trauma or we highly recommend her book Blind to Betrayal, you can also check out the center for Institutional Courage, a Nonprofit founded by Dr. Fried. It's dedicated to understanding institutional betrayal and the steps needed to prevent and counteract it. Through Institutional Courage. We've linked the book and the nonprofit in the show Notes this is the final episode of Season four, Caroline's Story. If this story resonated with you, or if you have a betrayal experience of your own to share, you can write to [e-mail] we'll be back with new weekly stories starting August 7th. Thank you for listening to betrayal season four. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us betrayalpodmail.com that's betrayalpodmail.com Also, please be sure to follow us at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way to support the series is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal 5 star reviews. Help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Betrayal is hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hart Hartman and Kaitlin Golden Story editing and producing by Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Kristen Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing and mixing by Matt d', Alvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins and special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Fishel]

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This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Okay moms, it's that time again. Back to school. And if you're anything like me, you want your kids to look great without spending a fortune. And that's why I've been hitting up JCPenney. They've got the trends your kids actually want to wear, from graphic tees and cool denim to shoes and backpacks, all at prices you'll feel really good about. And yes, I may have grabbed something for myself too, like the sleeveless Chevron crochet MIDI dress. It is so cute, so flattering and perfect for everything from weekend errands to brunch with friends. When I told my friends it was from JCPenney, they were floored. It just goes to show how much style and value you can find when you know where to look. JCPenney seriously makes it so easy to check off everything on your list and maybe treat yourself while you're at it. Whether you're shopping in store or online, it's one stop shopping for the whole family. So if you've been sleeping on JCPenney, now is the time to wake up. Shop back to school and [e-mail] yes, JCPenney, every business has an ambition.

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[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

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[Dr. Jennifer Fried]

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[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast.