S4: EP 4 — Shock to the Conscience

Summary

Betrayal: Season 4 – Episode 4 Summary: "Shock to the Conscience"

In this compelling installment of Betrayal Season 4, hosted by Andrea Gunning, listeners are plunged deeper into the unraveling of Joel Kern's deceitful double life. This episode, titled "Shock to the Conscience," meticulously dissects the pivotal Internal Affairs investigation that ultimately exposes Joel's betrayal of both his professional oath and his marriage.

---

Internal Affairs Under Fire

The episode kicks off with Andrea Gunning setting the stage for a critical moment in Joel Kern's career. Following allegations against him, Joel faces an Internal Affairs (IA) interview that is both intense and revealing.

Notable Quote:

"So, Joel, did you recognize her that day?" – Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor [27:15]

Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor leads the interrogation, initially presenting Joel with the Garrity advisement—a procedural safeguard ensuring that Joel understands his obligation to answer truthfully under threat of termination for false statements. Joel's demeanor shifts as evidence mounts against him, including recordings and photographs that directly contradict his earlier denials.

Throughout the interview, Joel oscillates between denial and partial admission, attempting to deflect blame by insinuating that he was a victim of catfishing. However, Lieutenant Chancellor and Lieutenant James Sokolik remain steadfast, systematically dismantling Joel's defenses by presenting incontrovertible evidence of his misconduct.

Notable Quote:

"I didn't have sex with her, as in, you know, sexual intercourse or anything like that." – Joel Kern [26:40]

Joel's attempts to minimize the severity of his actions falter as the investigators lay out policy violations, including inappropriate use of his police cruiser and providing false statements during the IA interview. Despite moments of apparent remorse, his credibility crumbles under the weight of the evidence presented.

---

Caroline's Awakening

Parallel to the IA investigation, Karoline Borega grapples with the emerging truths about her husband's deception. While Joel prepares for his impending reckoning at work, Karoline remains unaware of the full extent of his duplicity.

Notable Quote:

"The kids and I were living the truth. He was living the lie." – Caroline Borega [34:56]

As Joel's internal facade begins to crack, Caroline listens to the transcript of his IA interview, leading her to confront the stark reality of his actions. Her reflections highlight the profound impact of Joel's betrayals on their family dynamic, emphasizing the stark contrast between the Joel she believed in and the man revealed through the investigation.

---

Commander Strossner's Final Judgment

The episode crescendos with Joel facing Commander Jeff Strossner, his longtime superior and confidant. Strossner delivers a damning summary of Joel's misconduct, highlighting not only the severity of his actions but also the breach of trust that undermines the integrity of the police department.

Notable Quote:

"The fact that you lied, the fact that you were willing to put this on a third person... constitutes a violation of your oath in office." – Commander Jeff Strossner [49:00]

Strossner meticulously outlines the policy violations Joel has committed:

1. 906.30 – Inappropriate Use of Take-Home Vehicle: Joel's misuse of his police cruiser for personal sexual activities is upheld.
2. 400.30 – Conduct Unbecoming of a Police Officer: Joel's actions have brought disrepute to the department, especially given his manipulation of his professional identity to facilitate his misconduct.
3. 400.13 – Employee Conduct Departing from the Truth: Joel's initial deceit during the IA interview is a direct violation of his sworn duty to uphold honesty and integrity.

Despite Joel's pleas for mercy and assertions of personal struggle, Strossner remains resolute, recommending termination based on a preponderance of the evidence against him.

Notable Quote:

"I regret to inform you that I have no option but to recommend your termination." – Commander Jeff Strossner [49:24]

---

Aftermath and Reflections

Following the confrontation, Caroline expresses profound gratitude towards Commander Strossner and the man who confronted her, acknowledging the pain and betrayal but also recognizing the necessity of accountability.

Notable Quote:

"Thank you for not believing him. Thank you for the due diligence... You may have saved mine and my kids' lives." – Caroline Borega [52:25]

The episode concludes on a somber note, revealing that despite the clear recommendation for termination, Joel Kern has not been dismissed from his position, setting the stage for future developments in the series. Caroline and Andrea reflect on the enduring impact of Joel's deceit, emphasizing the long-term emotional toll on the family and the community's trust in law enforcement.

---

Conclusion

"Shock to the Conscience" serves as a powerful exploration of deception, integrity, and the personal costs of betrayal. Through meticulous storytelling and raw emotional narratives, Betrayal Season 4 delves into the complexities of uncovering the truth within both personal and professional spheres. As the series progresses, listeners are left contemplating the far-reaching implications of Joel Kern's actions and the challenging path toward healing and accountability for those affected.

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For those seeking to join the conversation, additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions are available through the Beyond Betrayal Substack.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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Or dsw.com hey guys, before we get into the episode, a quick note. We're looking for new stories of Betrayal for our weekly Betrayal series, which returns in August. If you've experienced betrayal and feel ready to share your story, now is a great time to reach out. Email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail.com.

[Joel Kern]

She starts screaming and yelling at us and we just got up and started to walk away. And then as we were walking out of their house, she's following behind us and then she says, I'm gonna ruin your.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is betrayal. Season 4, Episode 4 Shock to the Conscience in our last episode, we saw Joel Kern's double life. A side by side comparison of two different realities. But those two realities were on a collision course, because Joel's reckoning day at the Colorado Springs Police Department was rapidly approaching. This was the day he'd be forced to answer for his lies. And this time, it wouldn't be Caroline who was left in disbelief. It would be Joel's co workers, officers he'd worked closely with for over two decades, men he graduated from the police academy with, men who'd been close friends and mentors. In March 2022, Joel was under investigation at the CSPD because a couple came in to file a complaint against him. The wife confessed to having sex with Joel in his police car. She was making amends for her actions, and part of that was alerting the department that one of their officers was up to no good. So the department launched an internal investigation and dug into the claims. Then they called Joel in for his official interview with Internal Affairs. He was even able to bring an attorney. His future hinged on what happened in this meeting. We've got it all on tape, and we want you to hear it.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Good to see you again. It's been a while. Okay. Joel Bino on the form. You've been up here, so I'll let you read that.

[Andrea Gunning]

They start the interview by having Joel sign a Garrity advisement. It's an acknowledgment that he's under investigation. It explains the process, and most importantly, it requires him to answer truthfully after he signs this document. A lie could mean termination.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Thank you, sir. Okay. All right, we'll get started. This is Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor with the Colorado Springs Police Department, Internal Affairs Section. Today is Monday, March 21, 2022. I'm interviewing Lieutenant Joel Kern in regards to Internal Affairs Case 22023. Also present are Lt. James Sokolik and Lieutenant Kern's attorney, John Newsom. Joel, I know you were up here, so before going on the record, were you provided a Type Garrity advisement?

[Joel Kern]

I was.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Did you sign that voluntarily?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Do you have any questions regarding the Garrity advisement?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay. Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this matter truthfully today?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Andrea Gunning]

You may remember in episode two, Joel's boss, Commander Stroessner, reported a conversation he had with Joel where Joel denied knowing the couple and was worried that someone was impersonating him or filing a false complaint. Stroessner believed him.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

This is now under Garrity, this is your opportunity to just let us know what happened. I don't want you to feel tied to whatever you said to Strosner. Anything that was said there. Is that good? Is that fair?

[Joel Kern]

I'll tell you exactly what I told him.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, tell us, why do you think those allegations against you were brought forward?

[Joel Kern]

I don't know why specifically these allegations were made, but I have some ideas. I think maybe the. The person that's making the allegations got in over their head or something, and I suspect that they were catfished me in whatever communication they were having.

[Andrea Gunning]

But before they got into that, Chanza wanted to focus on the incident at Joel's house. The day a stranger showed up accusing Joel of having sex with his wife in his police cruiser.

[Joel Kern]

Dude, that's my wife out there. The one that you fucked in your cruiser. What are you talking about?

[Andrea Gunning]

Joel wasn't aware that the man had secretly recorded the entire encounter. And Joel didn't know that the man gave the recording to the cspd. Chanza gave Joel an opportunity to recount what happened from his point of view.

[Joel Kern]

I was just in shock that someone was standing there saying this to me. So I said, I don't know who you are, but I'm not fucking your wife or anybody else's wife. And he looked at me again, and then he said, well, I don't even really know if it's you, and if it's not you, I'm really sorry. And I took pause for a second because I'm like, you're coming to my house, banging on my front door, and then you drop this bomb on my household, and then you're going to say that you don't even know if it's me. So I said, you need to get the fuck off my property. I walked under the sidewalk so I could look in the car just to see who this is. And when I saw the person, I didn't recognize them at all. And then she gets out of the car, and then, like, she's staring at me, and then she has these huge, huge sunglasses on. Like, so huge I couldn't even see her face, really. But they weren't, like, total blackout. And I could see through the sunglasses that looked like she had, like, two black eyes and she's crying.

[Andrea Gunning]

It seemed like Joel, in an effort to deflect the attention off of his own actions, was slyly suggesting this man was beating his wife.

[Joel Kern]

And then this guy slams the back of the their car and says, is that him? By screaming at her. And she startles and she starts to cry even more. And then she, like, shakes her head yes, and then gets right back into the car. And then he said, well, the least that you can do is apologize for ruining my family. And then so I started walking away, and I said, I have nothing to apologize for because I don't know you. I don't know your wife. I'm not fucking your wife. I'm not fucking anybody else. And then I just started to walk back in my house. And then they drove away eventually.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

So you had never seen either one of them?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Going back to catfishing. You made a comment about that at the beginning when we opened up. What does that have to do with them coming to your front door?

[Joel Kern]

Like, two years ago, there was essentially, like, a breakup of friendships with, like, four different couples.

[Andrea Gunning]

It seemed like Joel had come prepared with a backstory. He says it all started at a dinner party that he and Caroline attended. It was with a group of couples. An argument broke out. The couple hosting got into it with Caroline and Joel. The wife in particular was enraged.

[Joel Kern]

So she starts screaming and yelling at us, and we just got up and started to walk away. And then as we were walking out of their house, she's following behind us. And then she says, I'm gonna ruin your fucking lives.

[Andrea Gunning]

The story was over the top, ridiculous. Even Then it got even stranger. Joel said another woman got pulled into the conflict, and the two women teamed up to take down the Kerns.

[Joel Kern]

There was another couple who was friends with this lady that said that she's gonna fucking ruin my life or ruin our lives. And she, when we were all friends, used to brag about how she would make fake social media accounts and then converse with people using the fake account. Her idea of fun was to impersonate a friend of a person that they already have on Facebook, and then she would start conversing with them on the instant messaging.

[Andrea Gunning]

Chanza asked more questions about the women Joel believed targeted his family. But eventually they got to the heart of the matter.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Have you ever had any kind of sexual contact inside your city assigned take home vehicle?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Have you ever had any sexual contact with anyone while on duty?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, so the allegations that are being brought against you are absolutely not true.

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

Chanza then showed Joel a photograph of a woman. It was not the woman who filed the complaint. It was someone else.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Have you ever met this lady?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Have you ever uploaded WhatsApp on your work cell phone number?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Obviously you're aware we took your phone and as you may imagine, we dumped your laptop. What If I were to tell you that you did communicate with someone directing them to go to WhatsApp, would that refresh your memory?

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[Joel Kern]

Want to know if there's homes for.

[Andrea Gunning]

Sale in the area. We've got it.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

How long has a home been on the market?

[Joel Kern]

We'll know it.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

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[Joel Kern]

Uh huh.

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[Joel Kern]

Of course.

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[Joel Kern]

We're working on it. Homes.com. we've done your homework.

[Andrea Gunning]

Lieutenant Chanza began to lay out the evidence they'd collected immediately. Joel's tone shifted. So did his story. These guys worked with Joel for years. This was the last situation they wanted to be in.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Obviously you're aware we took your phone and as you may imagine, we dumped your laptop. What if I were to tell you that you did communicate with someone, directing them to go to WhatsApp? Would that refresh your memory?

[Joel Kern]

I don't remember in what context you said that her name's what?

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Would it help you if I told you she has a Denver number?

[Joel Kern]

Yeah, I met her at a brew function.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

I'm sorry, at a what?

[Joel Kern]

A brewery function. Like a beer function.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Can you describe that for us?

[Joel Kern]

Just met her through there and then we started talking and then share common interests and became friends, but I just know her as her first name. I don't know her last name or anything like that.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

But you recognize the pictures, right?

[Joel Kern]

Yeah, now I do. Yep.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Joel, you know how that's looking, right?

[Joel Kern]

Is this the person making allegations?

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

We'll get to that. But I mean, if we're trying to establish credibility, veracity. I'm showing you a picture. I'm giving you a chance to take a look at it. You're telling me to my face that you don't recognize him?

[Joel Kern]

Well, I was mistaken. I apologize for that. I recognize her because I just met her at the brew functions, but that's it.

[Andrea Gunning]

The woman in the photo was the same woman we heard from in an earlier episode. We're not using her name here. She was the one Joel had sex with in the parking lot of a sporting goods store. The one Joel was texting when he said, there's been some drama and I deleted everything. The CSPD had copies of their messages.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

You don't have any kind of other relationship with her?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Have you communicated with her through WhatsApp?

[Joel Kern]

Yes. Just as friends talking through that about different things, but that's it.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Do you have a romantic relationship with her, Joel?

[Joel Kern]

I do not.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Would she say differently?

[Joel Kern]

I don't know. I don't have a romantic relationship with her anymore.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Have you been Intimate with her?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

When I say intimate, I'm be very blunt and bell. So we don't have any. Have even been physically intimate or had sex with her.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before Joel could say anything, Sokolik decided to lay it all out there. He was done with Joel's denial.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Before you answer that, because we're pausing. What I'm going to say is I want to make sure it's very clear that the Internal affairs detectives are in Denver right now to contact her during this meeting. So this should be a really easy question, Joel.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

We're not here to trick you, Joel. This is. We're trying to get to the bottom of this. I mean, do you know both of us?

[Lowe's Advertiser]

So, matter of fact, let me stop things for a second here, okay? I really want to be clear. I know you're talking about catfishing on this. That is not the allegation. The allegation, to be very clear, is you had sex with this person, not that she talked to you about having sex, that you've had sex with this person in your department vehicle. That's not a catfishing situation. It's a very serious allegation. And it's not like a misunderstanding. I'm talking to the wrong person online. This person is identifying that they had sex with you, Joel Kern, in your department car. And I'll be honest, it doesn't sound like you're being 100% honest to you, Joel, so I'm gonna ask you again real quick, understanding the detectives are out there to talk to her right now. Have you been physically intimate with this individual?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you have sex with them?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did that occur inside a department vehicle?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did it occur on duty?

[Joel Kern]

No. I mean, I guess it could have.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Are you familiar with FetLife?

[Joel Kern]

I've heard of it, but, yeah.

[Andrea Gunning]

FetLife is a kink and fetish social networking website.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you meet her through FetLife?

[Joel Kern]

I can't remember if I did or not.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

You have a FetLife account?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you have a FetLife account?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Okay, so in order to go through FetLife, you have to have an account in order to have those conversations back and forth or do DMs of that kind of stuff. So how would you have met her potentially there if you didn't have an account with FetLife?

[Joel Kern]

I don't remember how I met her exactly. It's been a few years, so we're.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Not gonna let you skate on this one. You just said I might have. So clearly you have been on FedLife. Can we establish That I looked at it.

[Joel Kern]

Yes, but.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

And what Jimmy just said is that you cannot get on there without having an account. We've tested all this out.

[Joel Kern]

Mm. I deleted. I had an account, and then I deleted it when I was trying to get my life back on track.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, that's a step in the right direction. So you had an account, but you don't know if you met her through FedLife?

[Joel Kern]

I think I. I think I did. Yeah. But it wasn't. You're painting it out to be.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

We're not passing judgment, Joe. I'll stop you there. We're not. We're giving you an opportunity to talk to us. All we're trying to establish is that you violate policy. And if you did, obviously we have to be held accountable, Period. I mean, that's it. We're not here to pass judgment.

[Joel Kern]

So there's periods in my marriage and home life that were bad. And then, you know, I met her and talked to her, and then we just became fast friends. But to the question of violating policy and all that, no.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, but you said that possibly you met her while you were on duty. You were coming back from Denver. When you went to this trip that you're thinking about, were you driving your take home vehicle?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, so how does that happen? How do you meet her? You said you went to a brewery.

[Joel Kern]

It was coming back from a training, and she suggested that we meet, and then. So we met on the way back, and then coming back, we just met at the. I forget the name of the store. It's a outdoor store, like around Lincoln and 525.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, and then where do you guys go and have intimate relationships?

[Joel Kern]

Well, she. She came over into my car, and then we just talked and everything. And then kissed.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay, what part of the car?

[Joel Kern]

Front passenger seat.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Any other area of the car she might have been.

[Joel Kern]

Mm. Mm.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

And I'm sure you can probably guess where we're going with this. We obviously took the car. We had the lab search it and do what they do. Would there be any chance for her DNA to be in the back of that car?

[Joel Kern]

I'm sure. I mean, she's in the car.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

So, Joel, did you anything besides kiss?

[Joel Kern]

Well, this is all very embarrassing and humiliating, but, yeah, we had sex.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Whereabouts in the car?

[Joel Kern]

In the. In the back.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Only the one time.

[Joel Kern]

Mm.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

Joel admitted to certain details, but when and only when, he realized they already knew it.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

So the picture that we're getting, Joel, is that there might be more than one person. So we want you to think about it. Pause if you need to take a break, if you need to use the restroom, get some water, and we can talk about that when we get back.

[Andrea Gunning]

They took a break, and when they returned, Chanza and Sokolik continued their questioning.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you have conversation with her in FetLife?

[Joel Kern]

I don't know her name or who she is or. Or anything like that, but, yeah, I think I had conversations or I did have conversations with her on fitlife.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Okay. Did you arrange for her to download the WhatsApp so you guys could have conversations privately on your phone?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you arrange to meet her at Memorial Park?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Then basically, you had sex with her at Memorial Park.

[Joel Kern]

Didn't have sex. There was no penetration.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

So that was oral sex only?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Andrea Gunning]

Joel is treading carefully here because admitting to having sex in public is not only admitting to a violation of his duty, but a violation of the law.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

During this conversation, says when you arranged that, basically, she is submissive and you are dominant. She says you struck her several times, leaving bruises. I will say before any further, too. She says this was a consensual encounter. She is not alleging a sexual assault.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

And remember, you're within the confines of Garrity.

[Andrea Gunning]

Remember, the Garrity advisement is a warning given to police officers during an internal investigation. The individual signing this advisement is declaring that they will tell the truth.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

This is not having to do anything to do with a criminal investigation. I'm just trying to lock in her statement. She said you left bruises, you physically struck her, pulled her hair, that type of thing?

[Joel Kern]

No.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

So obviously, at some point in time, after this takes place, you break contact with her, she leaves?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

You have any further contact with her?

[Joel Kern]

Just here or there afterwards, but nothing.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

What does here or there mean?

[Joel Kern]

Just texting a little bit on the. On the app, but no physical meetings that. Whatsoever.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

So when her husband showed up, you knew what he was talking about.

[Commander Strossner]

You know who I am?

[Joel Kern]

No. See, that's my wife out there.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

The one that you fucking.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Your cruiser.

[Andrea Gunning]

What are you talking about?

[Joel Kern]

Um, well, yeah, but again, I didn't have sex with her, as in, you know, sexual intercourse or anything like that, so. But, yeah, I had an idea.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Did you recognize her in that day?

[Joel Kern]

Vaguely, yes.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

So just to clarify, the picture that I'm showing you here, Joel, is the lady that was there that day in front of your house?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then the investigators turned to an important element in this case. They have a selfie. Joel sent to this woman a photo where he's wearing his police uniform. You can clearly see his badge on his Chest. And the investigators needed to know why. What was Joel's intention?

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

You sent a picture of yourself to the complainant in this case, the person that you met at Memorial Park?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Okay. Were you in uniform?

[Joel Kern]

Can't remember.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Did you identify yourself as a police officer to this person?

[Joel Kern]

After some time after we were talking, yes.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Why did you do that?

[Joel Kern]

Because she said that she works in law, and the intent was developing friendships and all that and having friendships. So it's just more of like a getting to know the information we received.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

Is that she was nervous. Is that why you sent a picture of yourself? Is that why you identified yourself as a police officer?

[Joel Kern]

To. No, Just more to make her feel more comfortable? No, absolutely not.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

But you did identify yourself as a police officer?

[Joel Kern]

Yes.

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[Joel Kern]

Because it's humiliating, it's embarrassing, it's traumatic, and, you know, all the demons from my past come to rise, and I was at a low point, definitely in my marriage and in my life and trying to save face, trying to not get fired, and I think maybe a cry for help.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Is there anything you want to make sure that the person who reads this gets to hear directly from you?

[Joel Kern]

Yeah, I think. I think I'm salvageable. I acknowledge that I've needed help for a long time, and I just throw myself at the mercy of the people reading this and promise that, you know, I want to do better. And I think I need help, and I think it would be nice for the department to help me get there. We pay a lot of lip service about our employees as our family and all that, but I like to maybe somehow believe in that and recognize that I've had issues. And I've had issues for a long, long time. And every day is a struggle, and I want help.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

In closing, this investigation is ongoing. In order to maintain the confidentiality of this case, I'm giving you a direct order not to discuss this case or this interview with anyone other than Internal affairs or anyone from whom the discussion would be legally protected and confidential under Colorado statute. Do you understand this order?

[Joel Kern]

I do. Okay.

[Lieutenant Rafael Chancellor]

This will conclude the interview. The time now is 13:44 hours.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline and I listened to the Internal affairs interview together. I wanted to know what she thought of Joel's performance. Finally, she could hear what was really going on with Joel while she was still in the dark. Caroline remembers exactly what she was doing the week of Joel's interview. Because she was on vacation with her daughter, they decided to take a trip to Vegas together. And Soak up the desert sun. Joel hung back, saying he was busy with work. All the while, he knew he'd been caught. He was just waiting to find out how bad the consequences would be.

[Podcast Host]

And he picked us up at the airport with our dogs in the car. You know, gets out of the car, kisses me, hugs her. Missed you guys. Oh, we missed you. We're catching up. We're talking about the food we ate, and we're filling him in. How was work? Oh, my gosh. So busy this week. I have replayed that over and over and over and over again.

[Andrea Gunning]

To Caroline, her husband seemed completely normal.

[Podcast Host]

Meanwhile, he has just revealed what is going to be the detriment to our family. Wow.

[Andrea Gunning]

I mean, he signs the Garrity, which is basically saying that he's promising to tell the truth. And from the very beginning, from question one, he is lying. Do you feel like he thought that he could talk his way out of it?

[Podcast Host]

I don't think he just thought he could talk his way out of it. I think that he truly, in his gut, believed he would get away with it. He not only thought that he could have his attorney believe him, but Joel believed that he would be able to have Raphael and Jimmy believe him as well.

[Andrea Gunning]

And those are the two Internal affairs investigators we heard questioning him. Rafael Chanza and Jimmy Sokolk. These are two people who both knew you guys personally?

[Podcast Host]

Yes. The part that disturbs me so much on this is not just that he lied, but the level of personal connection and whom he lied to. They were promoted on the same day together as lieutenants. We were at Jimmy Sokolik's wedding.

[Andrea Gunning]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

These were people who had been at personal events in our lives. He's lying to them. And not only just lying to them as professionals, colleagues, and friends, but he is lying about the dynamic of our home. There was not this unhealthy, horrible life at home. And yet this is what he reverts back to time and time and time again on the times where he has gotten caught.

[Andrea Gunning]

Yeah, I was going to say he refers to your marriage being in a bad place. And this isn't the first IA investigation where he cites this experience. You don't look back at that time feeling like your marriage was in a bad place.

[Podcast Host]

I do not.

[Andrea Gunning]

Do you even recognize the person on that tape?

[Podcast Host]

So when I hear the investigation, I see the stranger who I lived with. I do not know that man. That man who is on that tape is evil. I don't know anything about him. He just didn't think he would get to that point. That's why he started with the lying, denying, deflecting and shifting any of the responsibility. And then when he had to fall on his sword magically, it became all this was going sideways at home. I have demons. I need help. Yeah, it turned into a different deflection. Yeah. He would make comments about, quote, slaying his demons and then he would talk about, I just need to get back to the man I was. I could be the husband I was. I could be the dad I was. But the fact of the matter is, what were you?

[Andrea Gunning]

Yeah, who were you ever?

[Podcast Host]

That's a question that the kids and I have grappled with. Those are the moments where I question things. But I have to remind myself the kids and I were living the truth. He was living the lie.

[Andrea Gunning]

Yeah. Yeah. How long has it taken you to get to that place to be able.

[Podcast Host]

To say that I do it daily. I still have to do it daily.

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[Joel Kern]

Homes.com we've done your homework.

[Commander Strossner]

All right, so just to go on.

[Andrea Gunning]

The record, today's April, about a month after Joel's internal Affairs interview, Judgment Day finally came. Joel had to face his boss, Commander Strossner, who had believed in him, thought the best of him. You've heard the date Several times now, April 11, 2022. And Strossner got right to it.

[Commander Strossner]

I don't want to belabor the point here. This is not did not expect to have to do this with you, Joel. I really never expected this would have to be the case. Did you get the agenda for the meeting?

[Joel Kern]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

Strossner began by laying out the facts of the case.

[Commander Strossner]

About 4:30 to 5:00pm you informed me that you knew you were under investigation. When I asked how you knew that, you proceeded to tell me about the confrontation that occurred on February 5, professing your innocence and adamantly denying any involvement in the situation. I had no reason not to believe your innocence in this case, which meant that either the couple was lying and needed to be criminally charged or that another cop was impersonating you and needed to be fired and that we would make sure the case was thoroughly investigated. After being advised in signing the Garrity warning which included an order to answer questions truthfully. You knowingly lied, providing false information to the investigators for nearly 40 to 45 minutes. You initially attempted to blame someone you know is for causing you and your wife's problems and somehow causing this complaint by catfishing you online. You initially denied ever having an account on FetLife and denied knowing either. Only after being confronted with specific facts did you begin to admit to having sex with. While admitting to having sex with her, you initially denied the encounter occurred in your possession police car. You later confessed you might have met her on FetLife and then did admit the sexual encounter did occur in your police vehicle. After taking a break in the interview, you returned. Finally, you admit that you arranged a meeting in Memorial park with. You stated you did not have sex with her because there was no penetration. And quite frankly, I think this is quibbling over the details because she did perform oral sex on you in the back of the suv. There are discrepancies in the rest of the interview between what and you describe as having occurred in the back of the suv. Quite frankly, those details are irrelevant to proving the overall case. However, given the false statements you've provided to Internal Affairs, I have no reason to discount any of her recollection of these events. That's my overall case summary. Lieutenant, do you have any comments that you want to make?

[Joel Kern]

I'm extremely remorseful. I'm extremely ashamed, humiliated, embarrassed, upset. I'm begging for mercy. I literally was not in my right mind, and I've been going through a hard time for several years. And I can promise you that nothing like that would ever, ever happen again. I initially lied in the IA interview because I was humiliated, embarrassed, scared. Did not want to have this come to fruition and lose everything that I have. I am on bended knee asking for forgiveness. I promise you that none of this will ever happen again. I understand that I've shattered your trust, and it's something that I want to work hard to get back. I apologize for any of this happening. The last three months have been hell, and I just am begging for your mercy.

[Commander Strossner]

I'm gonna move to the. To the next section here and just talk about my comments and insight regarding this case. This case is not about the sex or how you met these women. Honestly, I don't really care what your preferences are unless the PD is somehow brought into the situation, as occurred in this case. When you sent essentially these strangers a photograph of yourself in police uniform and used your work vehicle for your activities. That's what made this a police issue the week the allegation was filed. You didn't need to say anything to me about the case. And quite honestly, I wish you'd not say said anything to me at all. You literally lied to my face on that Wednesday afternoon, proclaiming your innocence, and then less than 20 minutes later was texting with to tell her there was drama and that you deleted everything. Even on Friday, when I tried to reassure you that I had no reason not to believe you and would make sure that this case was thoroughly investigated, you didn't flinch, even when I threatened to criminally charge this couple or maybe fire another employee. And you later thanked me for believing in you. To me, this is the most disturbing piece of the entire case. Even in your interview with IA as a former investigator yourself, you lied to Jimmy and Raphael. Trying to pin this on a third person named. You had five and a half weeks to think about your interview and decided to stick with your your story and deny that any of this occurred. The fact that you lied, the fact that you were willing to put this on a third person or possibly even have charges filed against a complainant is absolutely horrific and constitutes a violation of your oath in office. I also cannot ignore the previous history from the 2019 case.

[Andrea Gunning]

Strossner is referring to the case when a reporter contacted the CSPD because Joel was up for the public information officer job. The reporter alleged that Joel had sexually harassed her and other reporters in 2019.

[Commander Strossner]

Commander Mandel wrote in regard to that incident. Lieutenant Kern is a valuable member of the department, is committed to putting this behind him and being a better person and leader for the organization. I have full confidence that Lieutenant Kern has learned from his mistakes and he will not place himself or the department in this position again. I'm hearing some of the same things that were said last time in that case.

[Andrea Gunning]

Strossner is right. Back in 2019, Joel had used some of the exact same language. Here's Joel in 2019.

[Joel Kern]

I'm ashamed and I'm embarrassed and I'm humiliated. And again, I take full responsibility for my actions and I ask for mercy.

[Commander Strossner]

Not only did you put yourself in that same position, you made it worse. Someone might make that argument that you were initially evasive in the IA interview, but that you rectified it later by telling the truth. I want to be clear that I do not believe you fully redeemed your credibility or you were completely transparent. Even near the end of your interview, you were Specifically asked by Lt. Sokolik whether you deleted the WhatsApp, to which you told him yes, later, Lt. Chanza asked you, do you still use WhatsApp currently? And you replied just to talk to. I believe the slip up proves you're still not being completely honest with investigators that you're unable to keep track of all your lies. And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Now, before I present my findings, I want to address something you stated during your interview with Lt. Chanson so that you believe you need help and it would be nice for the department to help you get there. And you said, quote, we pay a lot of lip service about our employees as family. And I'd like to maybe somehow believe in that and recognize I've had issues. I want to point out a couple things.

[Joel Kern]

Thanks.

[Commander Strossner]

In 2019 you received nothing more than a written reprimand at a time when you might have been able to get more. And you said you were already seeking the help. I believe this department has treated you more than fair regarding these previous indiscretions.

[Joel Kern]

I'm not saying that they weren't.

[Commander Strossner]

I'm about to go into the findings of the policies. Did you have anything you wanted to add?

[Joel Kern]

Yeah, that. I know that the department has been good to me. I am sorry that I. That this kind of stuff happened a second time. But I swear that there is nobody else. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to hold onto my employment and to show that I can do better. I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I understand that it looks bad the way that everything's been discussed here. And again, I'm begging for your mercy.

[Andrea Gunning]

Stroessner was unmoved.

[Commander Strossner]

Okay, let's go through each of the policies. So as I go through these, remember the standard is a pretty preponderance of the evidence. First one is 906.30. It's the take home vehicles policy. By preponderance of the evidence, your take home vehicle was inappropriately used. This allegation is sustained. 400.30.

[Andrea Gunning]

Another big one. Conduct unbecoming of a police officer.

[Commander Strossner]

It's reasonable to believe that using four photographs of yourself in official police uniform to gain the trust of women you have met on fetlife and then having sex with them in an official police vehicle has brought disrepute to the police department. Further, your false statements to me at the onset were unsolicited and used to paint yourself in the most favorable light regarding this investigation. This allegation is sustained.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then Strossner reached the most egregious of Joel's violations.

[Commander Strossner]

And the final allegation is 400.13. Employee conduct departing from the truth. Employees will not willfully or knowingly depart from the truth. In giving testimony or in connection with official duties. You are given a guarantee advisement and sign that advisement, knowing you were being ordered to tell the truth. By preponderance of the evidence. You gave a false statement for the first approximate 40 minutes of the interview. Only when confronted with evidence did you find finally begin to confess some of your role in this case. Yet, as I said, I still am not sure that you've told the whole truth. This is sustained as well. This whole thing has just been like a shock to my conscience. It really has. And honestly, I think we've been patient. Painted into a corner where there's really only one outcome in this case I can recommend. I have no option but to recommend your termination.

[Andrea Gunning]

Caroline, it feels like maybe for the first time, someone with authority sees through Joel's facade. What went through your mind when you heard Joel's boss confront him?

[Podcast Host]

I think it's fascinating to listen to when Stroessner says, and I believe there's more. There's more women. I question how many other women will come forward. And then hearing Joel say, I swear these were the only two. I swear these were the only two. And next thing you know, it's all kinds of different names are being revealed and all of these sexual encounters and sexually illicit behavior while he's under the guise of a police officer.

[Andrea Gunning]

Did you ever talk to Strozner?

[Podcast Host]

I did.

[Andrea Gunning]

What can you tell me about that?

[Podcast Host]

There's two people who a lot of people will be shocked that I'm grateful for. The first one is the male who came to my front door, the husband of the wife who Joel had an affair with. And the second one is Jeff Strossner. I'm extremely grateful for Jeff Strossner. I was at a community event and he was there. And as we walked out together, I said, hey, Jeff. And I could tell he was nervous to see me. And he was like, oh, you know, hey, hey, Caroline. And I said, I'd like to thank you. And he looked shocked. And I said, thank you for not believing him. Thank you for the due diligence of hearing this one out and not giving him the benefit of the doubt. You may have saved mine and my kids lives. Thank you. And Jeff's always been a very friendly and a little bit stoic of a man. But his voice started to crack, and you could see the emotion on him. And he said. Oh my gosh. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate you saying that. I have thought about you and the kids so much. So when I hear Jeff Strossner's commentary in this interview, I'm extremely grateful for him. I know that just hours later is when Joel's going to do his reveal to me and the kids. So it's an interesting thing to reflect back on and think what that day must have been like in his world.

[Andrea Gunning]

So we know that STR recommended Joel for termination, but he wasn't fired, was he?

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Andrea Gunning]

Joel wasn't fired in this case only gets more interesting. We'll explore how he was able to avoid termination on the next episode of Betrayal. Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season four. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail.com also please be sure to follow us on Instagram, betrayalpod and me andreah gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way to support the series is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal 5 star reviews. Help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart podcast. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Betrayal is hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producers are Caitlin golden and Kristin Melchiori. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Story editing by Monique laborde, audio editing and mixing by Matt d' Alvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins and special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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