Tracie | Betrayal Weekly

Summary

Podcast Summary: Betrayal Weekly – "Tracie"

Podcast: Betrayal: Weekly
Host: Andrea Gunning (iHeartPodcasts, Glass Podcasts)
Date: September 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Betrayal Weekly, hosted by Andrea Gunning, features the story of “Tracy”: a woman whose youth and adult life were defined by her deep involvement in a Southern Baptist church, her marriage to its charismatic pastor, and the eventual shattering of her world due to a cascade of his betrayals. The narrative explores themes of religious manipulation, grooming, broken trust, and ultimately, resilience. Tracy’s firsthand account traces her journey from sheltered teenager to preacher’s wife, through years of private suspicion and public scandal, leading to her ultimate escape and hard-won healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tracy’s Unconventional Childhood [03:30–06:00]

• Tracy grew up in the rural South in the 1980s with a “free spirit” mother. Animals ran wild, and her mother challenged conventional norms, in stark contrast to Tracy’s more conservative, rule-following personality.
• Tracy: “When I was young, I would be just so horrified by [my mom sunbathing nude on the roof]. And my mom would always say, Tracy, just loosen up. It’s okay.” [04:09]

Finding a Home in the Church [06:00–09:18]

• At 14, Tracy moved in with her father and stepmother, who introduced her to a large, influential church.
• The church offered stability, belonging, and a clear set of rules—especially around behavior, music, and dating—which Tracy embraced deeply.
• Tracy: “If I stay in church, I’m going to end up serving the Lord with someone who doesn’t struggle with alcoholism. It felt very safe.” [06:14]
• The youth group choir became central to Tracy’s life, performing throughout the South.

The Attraction to Pastor Keith [09:18–12:05]

• The church’s lead pastor, “Keith,” was charismatic and beloved by many. Tracy admired him but never initially considered him in a romantic light.
• After she started college, Keith called Tracy in the middle of the night, asked her on a date, and initiated a secret relationship.
• Tracy: “When he asked me out, I just started crying. I felt like it was all that I could ever wish for.” [10:47]

The Secret Relationship & Power Imbalances [12:05–18:03]

• Keith recently divorced and had custody of three young daughters. Tracy, 20, was swept up by the attention of the much older, respected pastor.
• Their relationship was secretive, intensive, and quickly physical—a transgression against the church’s own strict rules.
• Tracy: “He knows God ... If God is telling him that I’m the person, who am I to try to figure that out ... There was no questioning his authority. There was no checks and balances in our church.” [16:23; 16:50]

Marriage and Becoming the First Lady of the Church [18:03–29:35]

• Keith proposed dramatically, with a plane banner at the beach. Tracy felt swept up and unable to say no, especially with so much at stake publicly.
• Tracy’s father vehemently opposed the relationship, even disrupting a church service to confront Keith.
  • Tracy: “My dad had tried to talk to him, but he would not ... My dad actually had a gun in his car...if I had my way, I would have used it.” [19:59]
• They married in a high-profile wedding. Tracy assumed the role of preacher’s wife and stepmother, living under intense public scrutiny yet reveling in being “chosen.”
• Tracy began to notice Keith’s deceptiveness, hypocrisy (e.g., watching forbidden movies at home, demanding luxury behind the scenes), and disregard for church members’ crises.

The Growing Suspicion and Discovery of Betrayal [29:35–35:09]

• Tracy began to observe Keith’s suspicious closeness with a teenage girl at the church’s bookstore. When she confronted him, he became accusatory and dismissive.
• Keith (via Tracy): “I’m God’s man. It’s none of your business. God will keep me in check.” [32:38]
• Tracy’s intuition grew into certainty, and there were disturbing moments (including Keith calling out the girl’s name during marital intimacy).
• Feeling powerless and isolated, Tracy considered disappearing or harming herself.
• Tracy: “I had no power, I had no credit card. I thought everyone would hate me and blame me, yet I was just completely powerless.” [34:25]

The Nathan Letters and Exposed Double Life [36:08–45:05]

• Anonymous letters from someone calling himself “Nathan” circulated, referencing the biblical figure who called out King David’s sins. Nathan threatened to release damning tapes if Keith did not confess and repent.
• Andrea Gunning: “Whoever wrote this letter was sending a clear message that even the most powerful leaders are not above God’s law.” [36:47]
• Keith ignored the threats. Tapes were released exposing phone sex between Keith and another woman in the congregation (Michelle).
• Michelle’s husband confronted Tracy with the tapes and with hotel logs proving the affair was physical as well.
• The fallout was immense—public humiliation, community shock, and Tracy’s validation of years of suspicion. Her father, vindicated, handed out “I am Nathan and proud of it” bumper stickers. [47:05]

Confirmation of Patterns of Abuse [47:36–50:31]

• The young woman from the bookstore called Tracy, confirming Keith’s inappropriate involvement with her as a minor.
• Her parents pursued a lawsuit, but the age of consent had technically been reached.
• Despite all evidence, the church allowed Keith to continue preaching, aided by his manipulation of the narrative and followers’ denial.

Tracy’s Escape and New Life [51:05–56:19]

• Tracy left for San Diego to escape the toxic swirl. Keith leveraged religious manipulation, even reading Tracy’s phone number from the pulpit to pressure her to return.
• Tracy returned briefly, bargaining for the right to have her own child. Six months later, evidence of new affairs surfaced.
• Tracy: “If you ever do this to me again, you will have zero access to me, and I will not look back.” [53:23]
• On Valentine’s Day 2000, Tracy joined the military to achieve financial and emotional independence.
• Tracy: “I joined the military because that was the only way to break away. It was the only way that I knew how to get away from Keith and to do it in a way where I was financially independent.” [54:33]

Reflection, Legacy, and Who Was Nathan? [56:02–57:54]

• Tracy, now a boat captain, is at peace with not knowing Nathan’s identity. She’s grateful someone broke the silence.
• Keith continued preaching, building a new congregation with no knowledge of his past betrayals.
• Tracy has never returned to church, scarred by her experience but free.
• Tracy: “I wish I had that innocence again of just walking in. But I don’t have that anymore.” [57:58]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Keith’s power:
  “He wasn’t God, but he was the closest thing in our church to God. If he said it, it went ... There was no questioning his authority.”
  —Tracy [16:50]

• On the marriage proposal:
  “I felt immediately honored ... And at the same time I felt like, oh no, is this exactly what I think it is? But it had gone too far ... Who am I to question this?”
  —Tracy [18:28]

• On discovering infidelity:
  “When we would have intimacy, there was often times that he would call me her name. And she’s 16 and 17 and he’s 44.”
  —Tracy [34:05]

  “I actually considered just walking away, walking into the woods and just disappearing because I had no power ... I was just completely powerless.”
  —Tracy [34:25]

• On the release of the Nathan tapes:
  “No, I’m thinking, it’s coming down. This is the hammer’s falling is what I’m thinking.”
  —Tracy [38:20]

• On public exposure and her father:
  “My dad bought 500 bumper stickers that he had printed up that said in bright, bold letters, I am Nathan and proud of it.”
  —Tracy [47:05]

• On Keith’s return to the pulpit:
  “The church still let Keith preach every Sunday. And the reason they did that was because a manipulator, when they’re caught, they don’t just come clean. They blame everyone else ... And that’s exactly what happened.”
  —Tracy [50:04]

• On ultimate resilience:
  “I joined the military because that was the only way to break away ... Because being a good preacher’s wife, I didn’t save a rainy day fund because that means you’re halfway out.”
  —Tracy [54:33]

• Why she told her story:
  “I always felt manipulated and guilted to stay quiet. Even now, there’s a lot of pressure to do that. But I understand that the pathway to peace and understanding is by claiming your experiences and dealing with them ... I believe the truth sets us free. So that’s why I decided to tell this.”
  —Tracy [58:24]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Tracy’s childhood & family dynamics: [03:30–06:00]
• Finding community and rules in church: [05:25–08:00]
• First approaches from Pastor Keith: [09:33–12:05]
• Secret relationship & rules broken: [13:05–18:03]
• Public proposal and family conflict: [18:03–20:50]
• Life as preacher’s wife, early doubts: [25:04–29:35]
• Suspicion of Keith’s interest in teenager: [30:51–33:09]
• Keith’s gaslighting & Tracy’s powerlessness: [32:04–34:25]
• Anonymous Nathan letters and tapes: [36:47–39:02]
• Exposure of affair with Michelle: [42:10–45:05]
• Confirmation of earlier abuse from bookstore girl: [47:36–49:35]
• Leaving via military enlistment: [53:36–54:33]
• Reflection on speaking out & healing: [58:24–59:05]

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Conclusion

This gripping episode lays bare the insidious effects of betrayal by a trusted religious leader and the complex web of secrecy and manipulation that sustained him. Tracy’s story is one of faith weaponized, innocence lost, and the transformative power of truth. With candor and strength, she proves that, even after the greatest betrayals, healing and freedom are possible.

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Quote to close:
“It turned my life upside down. But you move forward, and I’ve definitely learned that I’m stronger than I thought I could be. And I believe the truth sets us free.”
—Tracy [58:24]

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For more stories, community resources, or to share your experience, visit Beyond Betrayal Substack.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Tracy]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Tracy]

The person that sent these letters out was saying, I have proof. Unless you confess your sins and repent. Then I'm going to release some tapes. Foreign.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. A few months ago, we got an email from a listener we're going to call Tracy. She grew up in the south in the 80s. Her mom was a free spirit.

[Tracy]

She is a wonderful hippie like woman. We would just have goats running around. They would jump on the porch.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Tracy wasn't like her mom. She was always more buttoned up.

[Tracy]

When I was growing up, my mom would lay on top of the roof to get some sun and she would not have her clothes on. And when I was young, I would be just so horrified by that. And my mom would always say, tracy, just loosen up. It's okay. But I'm always like, no.

[Andrea Gunning]

When Tracy was 14, her mom met a new guy and decided to move with him to Africa. She hadn't fully worked out where Tracy would stay, but she had some ideas.

[Tracy]

She said, you can move to New York with your grandma or you can move to California with your aunt, or you can move to Africa with me, or you can move in with your dad. Whatever you decide. Now, I was 14 at the time and my dad, I applaud this. He stepped in and said, no, these are children. They are not deciding which state and whom they live with. They are coming to live with me.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she moved in with her dad and his new wife.

[Tracy]

So very happy, wholesome childhood. Except that my dad did drink too much and occasionally that would cause a little problem.

[Andrea Gunning]

Things at home could feel out of control and at times that made her feel really lonely. That was until her stepmom invited her into a new community, her church. The first time Tracy went for a.

[Tracy]

Sunday service, it was just so warm and welcoming and something I'd never experienced before.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was a big Southern Baptist church, one that loomed large in their small town. And after A few Sundays there, everyone knew her name.

[Tracy]

That was something that I had been searching for because my family is a very small unit, and I didn't grow up with cousins, so it just felt like the place I wanted to be. I wasn't even related to these people, but they felt like family just automatically.

[Andrea Gunning]

The church quickly became Tracy's second home. She started volunteering and joined the youth group choir. Her dad didn't understand the appeal, but Tracy did. She saw it as a way to break a cycle.

[Tracy]

Seeing my dad struggle with alcoholism, I definitely felt like if I stay in church, I'm going to end up serving the Lord with someone who doesn't struggle with alcoholism. It felt very safe.

[Andrea Gunning]

By the time she was 17, Tracy was taking notes during Sunday sermons.

[Tracy]

I just was one of those teenagers that didn't get into trouble because everything that was preached, I practiced.

[Andrea Gunning]

And the person doing the preaching, he.

[Tracy]

Was funny, he was charismatic. He seemed to care about people.

[Andrea Gunning]

His name was Keith, or at least that's what we're going to call him in this episode. And when she was sitting in the pew on Sunday, Traci looked up to him.

[Tracy]

I just remember feeling the energy that came from his preaching and his dedication to serving the Lord. I really admired that.

[Andrea Gunning]

A lot of other people admired Keith, too. He'd built his church into a huge community.

[Tracy]

It wasn't like 30 people in our church. It wasn't this little church where everybody has beehive hair. We had 1,000 people in our church. It was principals, it was the mayor, it was the police chief. Very well viewed citizens of our town.

[Andrea Gunning]

The church was popular, but it also had rules, strict ones. And Tracy was a rule follower.

[Tracy]

I am wearing skirts all the time. I don't even wear pants. I don't listen to rock music. I don't listen to any secular music. That's how deeply entrenched I was.

[Andrea Gunning]

And the strictest rules were around dating.

[Tracy]

It was very much praised. If you made it to the altar and had never kissed, you don't live together. You don't have premarital sex, you don't go to the movie theaters.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy's favorite part of the church was the youth group choir. It was a group of nearly 100 teenagers who would travel all around the south to perform.

[Tracy]

Our youth group would sing, and then Keith would preach. We would go to churches all around, far and wide. I mean, we actually made tapes and, like, sold them.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't a typical teenage experience. Instead of sneaking alcohol with her friends, she joined the church's campaign against it.

[Tracy]

Our county was a dry county and when there was a vote to bring alcohol in, our church was one of the biggest adversaries to that and made it very loud. Took out billboards, had preaching on the corners about the evils of alcohol.

[Andrea Gunning]

The message resonated with Tracey. It was personal, but it also felt like she was part of something bigger.

[Tracy]

For me, being from a small town, it felt like a movement of positivity.

[Andrea Gunning]

After high school, Tracy enrolled in a college about an hour away. She went for a teaching degree, but she was still active in Keith's church. She went on weekend trips to perform with her youth choir. After one of those weekend trips, when.

[Tracy]

I returned back to my college dorm, it was about 2 o' clock in the morning and my answer machine is flashing. So I push it and it's Keith's voice and all he's doing is asking did I get home safely and could I please call him at his home to let him know I got home safely.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith, the head pastor, was like a celebrity. Even though she dedicated so much time to his church, she'd never talked to him directly. To talk to Keith, one on one, he needed an appointment. And now he was calling her in the middle of the night.

[Tracy]

I really felt like that was super odd. That had never happened before, actually. I didn't even know if he really even knew me. Of course he saw me, but we never spoke.

[Andrea Gunning]

But this was the leader of her church. So she called him right back, I.

[Tracy]

Mean, this is now 2:30 in the morning. And gave him a call and he said, I just really wanted to check on you and make sure you got there safely. And then the conversation switched to, hey, I was just wondering if you would ever consider going out on a date with me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy felt a rush of emotion.

[Tracy]

When he asked me out, I just started crying. I felt like it was all that I could ever wish for.

[Andrea Gunning]

In Keith's church, asking someone on a date signaled a very serious intention, a holy intention, with marriage as the end goal.

[Tracy]

I felt immediately very complimented that someone who's serving the Lord in such a way would even consider asking me out.

[Andrea Gunning]

This was someone who not only shared her values, but preached them.

[Tracy]

He's always going to be serving people and caring for others. He's never going to hurt people. I could have a man that's never going to drink too much. He's never going to cheat on me.

[Andrea Gunning]

It made her feel safe. But it was still so surprising. Tracy had never thought of Keith romantically. He was 35 and she had just turned 20 she didn't really know much about him.

[Tracy]

I didn't pay any attention to him other than being the pastor that was energetic, charismatic. It never even crossed my mind to think of him in that way.

[Andrea Gunning]

One thing she did know about him was that his wife had recently walked out of their marriage. He was open about this journey with his congregation.

[Tracy]

She left suddenly and moved in with a younger man and left the kids.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith had three daughters that he was now parenting on his own. The youngest was only a year old. It was hard on him emotionally.

[Tracy]

He really preached a lot about his wife leaving him and how he stays up at night with the baby crying and, you know, the girls cry for someone to be in their lives.

[Andrea Gunning]

A lot of women in the church felt sorry for him. He wanted a partner. So when he asked Tracy out on a date, she knew what it meant. Keith had chosen her.

[Tracy]

I thought, what better opportunity would I have for a man that could be good in my life? Like, this has got to be it. It's like being offered the best. What else could there be? That's what it felt like to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

They decided to meet for a picnic. On the date. She expected Keith to be strict and chaste. No hand holding, absolutely no kissing. She'd been following those rules for the last five years. But on the day of their date.

[Tracy]

We met and went to a scenic area that was alone, and he actually pushed me down and kissed me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith could see that Tracy was taken aback. He tried to explain, oh, my goodness.

[Tracy]

I'm so sorry I did this. I was just overcome because I just really care about you. It felt like an impulse that couldn't be controlled. I felt elated. I must be the person he really cares about in order for him to cross that line, a line that I so carefully, for the past four years, never cross.

[Andrea Gunning]

After that, they spent hours sitting in Keith's car, just chatting.

[Tracy]

Because he had been my pastor for four years. Him talking and me listening was just a natural part of our relationship. And he just told me how much he cared for me. It just felt very safe, and I felt very special.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was the beginning of a relationship.

[Tracy]

From there, we continued to date in a secretive way for about a year and a half.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy knew that if her parents found out about the relationship, they would have.

[Tracy]

Like, burn the college down to keep me from being with Keith. My mom and my dad, who did not go to church with his wife, was very much against it. In my mind, that would be the most horrible thing that I could tell them would be that I was dating a Very conservative pastor.

[Andrea Gunning]

And for Keith, part of the secrecy.

[Tracy]

Was because he wasn't ready to talk to his girls about it yet, even though he wanted to remain somewhat stable to them looking. So that really played a huge part in me feeling sorry for him and trying to be what he needed to be.

[Andrea Gunning]

They were both willing to do whatever it took to be together, even if it meant being discreet.

[Tracy]

We'd often drive an hour or two hours to meet, like at a rest stop or pick up some food and eat at a scenic spot. And we did that for a long time.

[Andrea Gunning]

They fell hard for one another.

[Tracy]

We definitely expressed great love for each other very early on, and I was deeply, deeply, deeply committed to him.

[Andrea Gunning]

Even though it was against church rules, their relationship progressed physically.

[Tracy]

We did not cross all the boundaries, but we certainly did cross a lot of them. He just told me that the reason that he couldn't control his impulses with me was because he already felt like I was his wife.

[Andrea Gunning]

She felt like she was breaking the rules. But Keith was the one who made the rules.

[Tracy]

He knows God, and if God is telling him that I'm the person, who am I to try to figure that out when I don't know, Like, I don't know what God says. Like, he runs a church, and I can see God answering prayers for him every week at church. How could I know better?

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith had direct communication with God, and that came with a lot of power.

[Tracy]

He wasn't God, but he was the closest thing in our church to God. Meaning if he said it, it went. If he thought it, it happened. If he wanted it, it was going to be worked through by all the people in the church to make it happen. There was no questioning his authority. There was no checks and balances in our church. We had deacons, but the deacons were to do good to the widows, and they just followed Keith. If you did question him, you were quickly moved out of the church by others.

[Andrea Gunning]

Two years into their relationship, Keith. Keith said he was ready to make their commitment public.

[Tracy]

That's when he sat down and talked to the deacons about it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Of course, the deacons approved, and after that, they started going out together in public. She would join him and his children for lunch after church on Sundays.

[Tracy]

When we went public, I was proud because it felt like I was no longer a secret, and it felt like he was taking a stand on our future together.

[Andrea Gunning]

One Saturday, Keith was determined to take Tracy to the beach for a date.

[Tracy]

Shortly after we got to the beach, you know, I heard the plane, and I could see that it was dragging one of those signs behind it saying, tracy, will you marry me? Love Keith. And then he just pulled out a ring and he said, will you marry me?

[Andrea Gunning]

It didn't actually feel like a quite question. It felt like the decision had already been made.

[Tracy]

I felt immediately honored that I could be his wife and we could do this movement together. And at the same time I felt like, oh no, is this exactly what.

[Andrea Gunning]

I think it is?

[Tracy]

But it had gone too far and he had already spoken to the deacons and it was already, already public in the church. I just felt like, who am I to question this? If he feels like this is what has to happen and I love him very much, then this is what we're going to do.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before the proposal, Keith hadn't talked to Tracy's dad. So when word got back to her.

[Tracy]

Father, my dad was very frustrated and he felt that there was an imbalance of power and that Keith was taking advantage of his daughter. So my dad had tried to talk to him, but he would not.

[Andrea Gunning]

Since Keith wouldn't meet with him, Tracy's dad decided to go to Keith. And there was one place he knew he'd be.

[Tracy]

My dad actually showed up at our church during one of the services and he walked inside and he said, keith, we need to talk. And I mean, there's hundreds of people there. And Keith said, what are you doing? You're interrupting the service.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy's dad confronted Keith in the middle of his sermon while hundreds of parishioners watched in confusion. It was a spectacle.

[Tracy]

Immediately the deacons surrounded my dad and rushed him out of the church. Later my dad told me, he said, tracy, I want you to know that that was difficult for me, but it was the only way that I knew to try to get his attention and try to let people know how bad I think this is. He said, I actually had a gun in my car and I locked it in my car so I could not run back and get it because if I had my way, I would have used it. That.

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[Tracy]

My dad walked me down the aisle, and that was one of the hardest things he's ever done, he said. But in support of his daughter, regardless of who she was marrying, he wanted to be there for me.

[Andrea Gunning]

The wedding was on a Sunday night with hundreds of people in attendance, from parishioners to family and friends.

[Tracy]

Everything was always done over the top. And, of course, our wedding would also be over the top. I mean, this was a big wedding. Big, big wedding. I had, like, eight bridesmaids. He had, like, eight groomsmen, and my little brother was dressed just like Keith, little white tux and everything.

[Andrea Gunning]

While they were standing at the altar, Keith surprised her with a personal rendition of a Johnny Mathis song.

[Tracy]

Keith got the guitar from behind and surprised me singing the 12th of never. I'll love you till the 12th of never. And they actually cut a hole in the ceiling of the church and dropped all these balloons down on top of us when they announced that we were husband and wife.

[Andrea Gunning]

After the honeymoon, Tracy moved into the house Keith and his daughters already lived in. She got a job teaching at a Christian school run by Keith's church.

[Tracy]

And I just dove right in. So our life seven days a week revolved around church. Whether it was visitation or bus ministry or running to this church on a Friday night so that the youth choir could sing, everything revolved around church. And that was our entire life.

[Andrea Gunning]

After the wedding, Keith's life didn't change that much, but Tracy's did, because now she was the stepmother to Keith's three young daughters.

[Tracy]

I instantly loved the kids because I felt like they were just being tossed about, given the situation with their mom not living with them. So I was happy to take that on. And I actually thought, I am okay with not having children of my own. I'm just going to raise his.

[Andrea Gunning]

Traci also became the first lady of the church, which had some upsides.

[Tracy]

You are his wife. You drive the best cars. You live in the big house on the hill. You have inner workings of what his life is, and you are privy to all of it, and you should be very, very grateful that you're in it. And for the first couple years, that's exactly how it went. I had a lovely time with his family.

[Andrea Gunning]

She even loved the little moments the everyday tasks of parenting.

[Tracy]

I would get the kids up for school, and they would travel with me. I taught at the same school that they went to. Then after school, I would bring them home. They would play and do. And I would cook dinner or make something for dinner, and then we'd get ready for church. So it's just a very busy time. But I felt like I was exactly where I needed to be.

[Andrea Gunning]

Plus, she was able to continue serving the community. It felt like she had a larger purpose.

[Tracy]

I really thrived in the position as a preacher's wife. I enjoyed teaching in a Christian school. I enjoyed working with people where I could go visit them and bring them groceries and help them figure out how to do their childcare or whatever they needed. I was able to help people and live for other people. That was something that I really wanted.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith treated her like a prize. He gushed about their happy marriage in his Sunday sermons.

[Tracy]

I felt very much like he was as devoted to me as I was him, and he would make that very apparent. He would talk about me in his messages. He would use humor about our relationship. He would always brag on me being his wife.

[Andrea Gunning]

As time went on, Tracy started noticing some odd behavior from Keith.

[Tracy]

We would pull up and get gas, and somebody would pump our gas, and they would say, hey, what y' all been doing all day? And Keith would make up something that we weren't even doing. Like, it just. I started seeing that not telling the truth was something that came very easily to him, and that surprised me over and over.

[Andrea Gunning]

And behind the scenes, she was seeing how he ran the church, and at times, it was off putting. At first, it was little things.

[Tracy]

The very movies that he would talk against from the pulpit, we would watch at home, and he would say that he was studying it.

[Andrea Gunning]

She saw that Keith could be materialistic.

[Tracy]

So for Pastor Appreciation day, he would be like, whatever you want. But behind the scenes, he was like, I want this color car made of this model with this kind of seat, and I want this kind of trim, and it needs to have XYZ on it. So I was constantly questioning in my heart, how does this work? Because, as you know, I wasn't raised in a church environment. He's the only pastor I've ever had. It just was contradictory to what I expected life to be with him sometimes.

[Andrea Gunning]

There were other times where his actions really gave her pause.

[Tracy]

When a church member would call and say their child was in a car wreck, could he go to the hospital to visit them and pray with them? He would say he was Busy. And he would hang up the phone and he would say, tracy, let's go jump in the pool. And I would say, keith, that church member just asked if you could go see their son who just was in a terrible car wreck. And he would say, tracy, I can't do everything everybody wants. I can't be on 24 7. And here I am, 15 years younger than him going, that doesn't make sense. But what do I know?

[Andrea Gunning]

Every time she had questions about Keith's behavior, this is what she came back to. He knows more about how to run the church.

[Tracy]

And all was good. Until about 1996.

[Andrea Gunning]

Four years into their marriage, Tracy and Keith's life was well established. They ran a few businesses through the church, like a summer camp and a bookstore. It was at that bookstore where Tracy began to notice another strange pattern in Keith's behavior.

[Tracy]

There was a young lady that worked there who was in high school, and she was very friendly, very sweet, and I enjoyed her company. However, if I walked in and Keith was there, they would instantly move apart. Like, they would be close together, like a foot apart from each other. And then they would step away. And I remember that catching my attention because that's exactly how he and I did it when we were secretly meeting. So I just started paying attention.

[Andrea Gunning]

She watched for a few weeks, and she saw Keith behaving strangely every time he was in the same space as the girl. Eventually, Tracy decided to address it with him.

[Tracy]

I talked to Keith about it, and I said, keith, if you feel an attraction to. To this girl, I want you to remember that she is a young girl and just move on, pray about it and be done with it. I was conditioned to believe that men cannot help their impulses. And I just felt like I need to remind him to check himself.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy thought that conversation would be the end of it. But Keith didn't react well.

[Tracy]

He would instantly put me in my place and say, I don't know what you're talking about. You're crazy. It was a very direct, accusatory flip. The script to how dare you to where you're apologizing to him at the end of it, like, oh, I'm so sorry. Like, how. How could I ever think that?

[Andrea Gunning]

And Keith made it clear he didn't take orders from Tracy.

[Tracy]

I'm God's man. It's none of your business. God will keep me in check. That was his answer.

[Andrea Gunning]

Talking directly with the girl at the bookstore wasn't an option because Tracy didn't have any proof. She only had a gut feeling.

[Tracy]

I Never said anything to her. Of course, you know, it was. I would never. I would never say anything because I wasn't sure, right? I was just seeing it. Maybe I wasn't seeing it. So that's how the next two years went.

[Andrea Gunning]

During that time, Tracy's gut feeling grew into a certainty something was going on.

[Tracy]

I knew he had attraction for that young lady. I could feel it. I could even feel when he dressed differently because he was going to be around her.

[Andrea Gunning]

So.

[Tracy]

So I would bring those fears or those thoughts to him as rationally as I could and say, keith, I know you're going to see this young lady today. And he'd say, how do you know that? And I'd say, because you're doing this, this. You're wearing this cologne or you put on these clothes. I could tell the difference because I knew him and I just watched him. So for four years before I even dated him, I observed him every week, many times a week, and I knew his patterns.

[Andrea Gunning]

And then, most disturbing of all, when.

[Tracy]

We would have intimacy, there was often times that he would call me her name. And she's 16 and 17 and he's 44.

[Andrea Gunning]

The first time that happened, Tracy was horrified and embarrassed. She felt sick to her stomach.

[Tracy]

When I realized that he actually had a true attraction for someone that was so young, it was devastating to me. It was such a contradiction between what was being preached and what I saw happening. I actually considered just walking away, walking into the woods and just disappearing because I had no power, I had no credit card. I thought everyone would hate me and blame me, yet I was just completely powerless. And so the only way to get away would be to just walk away and just disappear.

[Andrea Gunning]

Leaving would mean abandoning everything she built. The kids she'd helped raise, the congregation she loved. The only way she'd be able to walk away is if she had concrete proof of Keith's actions.

[Tracy]

It had been very clear that things had gotten out of control. But up until that point, no proof had been put in front of me.

[Andrea Gunning]

She knew it would take a lot more than her word to bring down God's right hand man. Tracy felt so trapped that she considered taking her own life.

[Tracy]

I felt so alone, so ostracized, and I was so doubting my own understanding of exactly what I was seeing. And unable to find help to give.

[Andrea Gunning]

Herself a purpose, she became laser focused on things she could control, like raising the kids and supporting the congregation.

[Tracy]

I just started throwing myself into what the good was and trying to just ignore the other stuff. And I felt literally crazy. And yet I needed to hold the church together. I needed to not fall apart. I needed to be acting like I was completely behind Keith and saw nothing wrong. And that worked until Nathan came into the picture. One of the deacons came up to me and told me that he had been receiving letters from someone who called himself Nathan.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was a pseudonym, one that anyone in the church would recognize. It came from a Bible story about a prophet named Nathan who was sent by God to confront King David. King David had had committed adultery and he was using his power to hide it. So God sent Nathan to confront the king. Whoever wrote this letter was sending a clear message that even the most powerful leaders are not above God's law.

[Tracy]

The person that sent these letters out was saying to Keith, what would you do if someone's committing adultery in your church? And then it said, you are that person and I know you are. I have proof.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the Bible story, King David immediately acknowledged his own actions and repented for his sins.

[Tracy]

I feel like Nathan used that parable specifically to give Keith the chance to correct and not make it public.

[Andrea Gunning]

This letter writer also had some leverage.

[Tracy]

Then it said, unless you confess your sins and repent, I'm going to release some tapes.

[Andrea Gunning]

Letters had been sent to the church deacons and to Keith himself. But after Keith read the letter, he threw it away.

[Tracy]

Well, Keith did not take that seriously. He didn't believe that this person that called themselves Nathan really had anything.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracey saw her whole life on the brink of collapse.

[Tracy]

No, I'm thinking, it's coming down. This is the hammer's falling is what I'm thinking.

[Andrea Gunning]

And she believed Nathan, whoever he was.

[Tracy]

Nathan meant what he said when he said, I will make it public if you don't correct yourself.

[Andrea Gunning]

And so when Keith blew off Nathan's.

[Tracy]

Demands, our phone had been tapped and the tapes were released.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy and Keith's life was hanging in the balance with when someone in their church mailed out anonymous letters. The letter writer called himself Nathan. He said he had evidence Of Keith committing adultery.

[Tracy]

The letter first came to Keith, and then the letters were sent to the deacons to try to put their king David in line. And nothing seemed to have been done. And so then the tapes were released.

[Andrea Gunning]

Whoever Nathan was, he had tapped Keith and Tracy's home phone. He'd been recording the line and making tapes of Keith's private conversations. The day the tapes were sent out, Keith was nowhere to be found.

[Tracy]

It happened all so quickly. At this point, Keith is now somewhere in the woods praying, like he's gone to a quiet place to. To go pray.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Tracy was in the eye of the storm. She found out about the tapes when a member of their congregation, a friend of hers, came speeding into the church parking lot.

[Tracy]

He's like, tracey, I need to talk to you.

[Andrea Gunning]

His wife Michelle, was also a friend of theirs and a member of the congregation.

[Tracy]

Michelle was actually around my age. She would hang around. We all hung around each other. We played volleyball after church on Wednesday nights, and, you know, it was just all fun and games.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy had noticed something funny about her husband, Keith and Michelle.

[Tracy]

He and this woman would back away from each other, and then I started noticing that they would wear the same colors, like on Sunday mornings.

[Andrea Gunning]

Now, Michelle's husband was in front of her with a cassette tape in his hand. He had received a tape at his office. It was from Nathan.

[Tracy]

He opened it up. You know, he was like, what is this? Let me. You know. There was no markings on it whatsoever. Nothing. It said nothing. And he just popped it into the recorder. He's horrified because he's literally hearing his wife on these tapes and Keith in very intimate situations. And so he turned it off real quick. And that is when he came to find me, and he told me what was on the tape.

[Andrea Gunning]

The tapes exposed that Keith and Michelle had a secret routine, One that they kept from their spouses for months.

[Tracy]

It would happen as soon as I would leave to go to work in the morning, I would take the girls to school, and I would go to my class to teach, and Keith and Michelle would get on the phone, and that's when they would do. This is when the kids were in school and the spouses were at work.

[Andrea Gunning]

The tapes were recordings of Keith and Michelle having phone sex.

[Tracy]

On this tape was many, many weeks of spliced discussions between Keith and Michelle.

[Andrea Gunning]

Michelle's husband was horrified at what he'd heard.

[Tracy]

He's crying. He's embarrassed. It's very clear that he's as shocked about it as I am.

[Andrea Gunning]

He wanted to listen to the tapes together.

[Tracy]

With Tracey, I just refused. I said, I'm not interested in listening to it. I don't need to hear it, but I do want to talk to you about what was going to happen from there.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before they confronted their spouses, Michelle's husband wanted to investigate for himself. He needed to know how far this affair went, and it didn't take long for him to find an answer.

[Tracy]

He personally had seen the ledgers of Keith's signature signing in to hotels.

[Andrea Gunning]

This proved Keith's affair went far beyond phone conversations. It was life altering for Tracy and also for Michelle's husband. But it had huge implications for the church.

[Tracy]

I just could not bear it. I mean, we had the most beloved congregation of people that I knew this was going to absolutely devastate.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was time to face the music. But as word began spreading through the community Keith was missing.

[Tracy]

It became a very real fact to everyone that Keith was cheating on me. And it was someone that was within the church. It was just full like a firestorm across our town.

[Andrea Gunning]

Everyone was shocked to find out that Keith was living a double life. Everyone except Tracy's dad. He still lived in town for years. He'd been waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Tracy]

My dad owns the pool hall across the street from the church, so he literally has a front row seat to the chaos that is ensuing.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy's dad decided to make the most of Keith's public humiliation.

[Tracy]

My dad bought 500 bumper stickers that he had printed up that said in bright, bold letters, I am Nathan and proud of it. And he handed them out to the patrons of his business and his friends.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy's dad wasn't Nathan. He was just thrilled someone was exposing Keith. But for Tracy, the public humiliation was more complicated. Because the night she found out about.

[Tracy]

The tapes, I get a call from the young lady.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was the girl who used to work in the bookstore. She was now in her early 20s, but she was calling Tracy because she'd just heard the news about Keith and Michelle's affair.

[Tracy]

She is as hurt as I am because she thought she was the only one. And now she realizes that he has done this with another woman.

[Andrea Gunning]

This phone call validated Tracey's suspicions from years before. Even though Keith had vehemently denied it, the truth was coming out. He had been romantically involved with this girl back when she was a teenager.

[Tracy]

She read to me the poetry that Keith had written to her, and she validated everything. She said, yes, we did this, we did that. He wrote me this, and she was telling me because she was so hurt that he had done this with Michelle, which is so ironic that I am the wife. They all did it, too.

[Andrea Gunning]

Tracy could finally put together a timeline. After this girl graduated high school and went off to college, Keith picked up with michelle. He spun a complicated web of betrayals, One that damaged and devastated many people. And he left tracee to pick up the pieces.

[Tracy]

She was coming to me from a place of deep hurt, saying that she should have told me, you know, two years prior. I really couldn't console her at that point. I was so shocked that I don't remember what I said to her, But I did end up throwing the phone across the room. Since then, I have reached out to her to tell her that she was a young lady that was also manipulated. And I've tried to help her realize that I have no hurt toward her at all.

[Andrea Gunning]

After the tapes were sent out, the girl told her parents about how Keith pursued her, and they went to the police.

[Tracy]

The young lady's parents learned of the affair between her and Keith, and they brought a lawsuit against him. But turned out that the age of consent in that state, she had just reached that age, so the lawsuit could not go any further.

[Andrea Gunning]

When keith came back from his time praying in the woods, he resumed his position as head of the church.

[Tracy]

The church still let Keith preach every Sunday. And the reason they did that was because a manipulator, when they're caught, they don't just come clean. They blame everyone else. And they say that it's been twisted and turned and they continue to manipulate. And that's exactly what happened. These people did not want to believe that Keith was doing this, Even though they were faced with it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Many people in town had the motivation to do what Nathan did, Especially the teenage girl and her parents. But they weren't behind the Nathan letters. So it left a question hanging over the whole congregation. Who was Nathan?

[Tracy]

At the time, I had no idea. There was a lot of speculation of who it could be and a lot of blaming, like this person's probably doing it. In fact, Keith was trying to bring a lawsuit against whoever Nathan was for tapping his phone lines because it would be illegal to do that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Instead of sitting through Keith's first sermon back at the pulpit, Tracy got a one way ticket to California.

[Tracy]

I felt so much shock and hurt that I didn't stick around for the fallout of it. I flew to San Diego, and I was on the other side of the country with my head in the sand, just trying to breathe.

[Andrea Gunning]

Back at church, Keith had started preaching a lesson in forgiveness about how Tracy needed to forgive him.

[Tracy]

During that time, Keith actually announced my phone number from the pulpit and told everyone to give me a call and just begged me to come back. It was the most bizarre and ridiculous thing ever. Hundreds of phone calls just over and over, just people saying, we love you, Tracy. We're praying for you. Other people would say, how dare you do this to God's man? How can you betray him? You need to get back over there and fight the good fight. Just on and on. And finally, the pressure was so much that I decided, for his kids sake and for those people that were hurting, that I could give him another chance. So after about four months, I ended up going back to Keith. Not because I felt like it was necessarily the best thing for me, but I felt like it was the best thing for the church and the people, and I was their preacher's wife. And I felt like I needed to heal all the hurt that had happened through this.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith also promised Tracy something she really wanted if she came back.

[Tracy]

If you remember, I had agreed that I would raise his children and not have any of my own. But as I grew through the decade, I started wanting children. But I just kept pushing it back, saying, you know, it's okay. I'll just, you know, I'll raise his. I'll love them. Well, when I left him, that was one of his buying points, is we can have a child of our own if you come back.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she went back. But this time, Tracy drew a firm boundary.

[Tracy]

I told Keith, I am back. However, if you ever do this to me again, you will have zero access to me, and I will not look back.

[Andrea Gunning]

And so she went on optimistic that Keith would change. But six months later, some people came.

[Tracy]

Up to me and said, keith is having another affair. I said, put proof in my hands, and I will leave him, and that will be it. And I ended up getting proof put in my hands that he was doing marriage counseling with a woman and her husband. He ended up having an affair with her. And that night, I drove out of town, and on Valentine's Day 2000, I joined the military. I walked into a recruitment office, and I said, can I take the ASVAB right now?

[Andrea Gunning]

That's the entrance exam for the military.

[Tracy]

They were like, who are you? And yes, yes, come sit down. And I took it. And because I'd been a schoolteacher for middle school math, at that point, I aced it.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was sent to basic training straight.

[Tracy]

From being a schoolteacher and a preacher's wife to putting my head in the duffel bag. And low crawling to go get my food. I joined the military because that was the only way to break away. It was the only way that I knew how to get away from Keith and to do it in a way where I was financially independent because being a good preacher's wife, I didn't save a rainy day fund because that means you're halfway out.

[Andrea Gunning]

After basic training, Tracy was offered a position as an officer, but she wanted something more short term.

[Tracy]

Because I was 31, I said, you know what? I don't want to do any of that. I just want a short term enlistment period because I know that I want to have a family one day. So I just joined for three years, and I spent my whole time in Kaiserslautern, Germany, at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. It's actually an air ambulance, 236 air ambulance. And I had a ball and totally restarted my life. Met a wonderful man there, and we have a son together.

[Andrea Gunning]

Today, Tracy works as a boat captain in a small Southern town where she lives with her son. It's been 25 years since the Nathan tapes were sent out and Keith's betrayals were exposed. But what remains a mystery is Nathan's true identity.

[Tracy]

No one has ever stepped up and said that they are Nathan. Now I feel like I have a very good idea, and other people have. We've talked about it, and we feel like it could be this person. So I feel 99% sure that I know who it was.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the end of the day, Tracy's never needed to know. It doesn't matter to her who Nathan really was. She's just grateful to him for breaking the silence.

[Tracy]

It wasn't just me. It's all of these people that went through this and have never been told the truth. And I did not stand up and tell the truth for several reasons, because I didn't want to hurt them. I didn't want to expose things. And I've been, I would say, brainwashed, manipulated into thinking that I am partaking in part of the guilt and the shame. If I do speak now, it's been 24 years and I can speak.

[Andrea Gunning]

After Tracy left for the final time, Keith kept right on preaching. She got word about how he addressed it with the congregation.

[Tracy]

He did not address anything. He did not say what had happened. He did not explain anything. He didn't say why I left. All he said was, don't believe everything you're going to hear. I've heard from other people that he said directly that, oh, Tracy left because she wanted a baby. And we couldn't have one.

[Andrea Gunning]

Keith is still preaching to this day.

[Tracy]

He's built a new building, he has a new congregation. He's remarried. They know nothing about me or all that has happened. The lawsuit, the three women finding his name on a hotel roster, the tapes that were sent out of him having phone sex. They know nothing about that stuff.

[Andrea Gunning]

And Tracy hasn't been back to church since.

[Tracy]

For me, going into a church and sitting, I can see what could be happening in the background, and that's really distracting to me. I wish I had that innocence again of just walking in. But I don't have that anymore.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

[Tracy]

I've actually thought about it for a very long time, how to ever tell the truth and the story that I have because I felt like it needed to be told. I always felt manipulated and guilted to stay quiet. Even now, there's a lot of pressure to do that. But I understand that the pathway to peace and understanding is by claiming your experiences and dealing with them. It turned my life upside down. But you move forward, and I've definitely learned that I'm stronger than I thought I could be. And I believe the truth sets us free. So that's why I decided to tell this.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly. If this could be true about my brother and I could have no idea, how on earth would I ever know who the monsters were? Before we end the episode, I have some exciting news. Betrayal will be doing our first ever live show as part of the Virgin Voyages True Crime Cruise. We'll be answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage with Stacy and Tyler from Betrayal Season three, as well as Caroline from Season four. So if you have a question for us, please email [e-mail] with the subject line Listener Question. And if you want to join us on the the Caribbean cruise, there are still spots available. Search virgin voyages.com truecrime if you would like to reach out to the Betrayal.

[Tracy]

Team or want to tell us your.

[Andrea Gunning]

Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayalpodmail.com or follow us on Instagram betrayalpod. You can also connect with me on Instagram InstagramDreaGunning to access our newsletter, view additional content and connect with the Betrayal community. Join our [e-mail] we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a product of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Caitlin Golden, Olivia Hewitt and Kristin Melchiori. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our IHAR team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing and mixing by Matt d' Alvecchio Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by MIB Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Tracy]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Fox one We Live for Life Streaming now.

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[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast.