Heather | Betrayal Weekly

Summary

Betrayal Weekly – “Heather”

Podcast: Betrayal Weekly
Host: Andrea Gunning
Date: December 11, 2025
Episode Title: Heather

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, host Andrea Gunning shares the harrowing story of Heather Rovette, a vibrant Toronto real estate broker whose life and trust are shattered by a romance scammer. Heather offers a raw, detailed account of falling for “Jace Peretti”—a charming handyman with a tragic past—only to discover after years together that he is, in fact, a career con artist named Jason Porter. The episode delves deeply into themes of betrayal, emotional abuse, resilience, and the challenges of seeking justice for complex, ongoing cons. Heather’s story is not just about personal loss, but about the broader issue of romance scams and their aftermath.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Heather’s Background and Early Life ([03:18]–[06:23])

• Family & Upbringing:
  • “I have an older brother and a younger sister. We were all very close in age.” ([03:33] – Heather)
  • Grew up in a loving, supportive Toronto household with successful professional parents—a child psychologist/neuroscientist mother and labor lawyer father.
• Career Success:
  • Built her own thriving real estate career; described herself as tenacious, energetic, and independent.
  • “I became a real estate salesperson and then two years later, I upgraded to broker.” ([04:45] – Heather)
• Early Financial Betrayal:
  • Was scammed by her financial advisor, resulting in a $127,000 loss.
  • “Even though he was found guilty and ordered to pay restitution, I never saw a penny.” ([05:29] – Heather)
• This early breach of trust foreshadows events to come.

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Meet Cute: The Beginning of the Relationship ([06:32]–[13:56])

• Unexpected Meeting:
  • Contacts a handyman to fix kitchen cabinets; meets “Jace,” who charms and quickly bonds with her.
  • “I was greeted by this very ruggedly cute guy… I found myself a little tongue tied and was like, oh, wow, sure, come on in.” ([07:00] – Heather)
• Flirty Banter:
  • A “hostage” screwdriver leads to two weeks of playful texting—a period Heather fondly recalls as exciting and full of chemistry.
  • “Every time I got a text from him, it was like a bing, like an endorphin hit.” ([10:09] – Heather)
• Dating & Falling in Love:
  • Jace is presented as a divorced dad, carpenter, ex-software engineer. He’s attentive, romantic, and thoughtful.
  • “He showed up on a motorcycle, which I thought was really sexy… It was a kiss I’ve never experienced before.” ([11:13]–[12:23] – Heather)
• Integration with Family/Friends:
  • Quickly says “I love you,” meets Heather’s family, and becomes a beloved presence.
  • “Life was pretty electric… Even the simple activities like going grocery shopping became fun because I wasn’t doing it alone anymore…” ([14:34] – Heather)

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The Perfect Life, With a Shadow ([19:02]–[27:59])

• Building a Future:
  • Plans a romantic trip to Italy; buys a home together outside Toronto during COVID lockdown; dreams of backyard weddings and a shared life.
  • “That winter, we had fires almost every day. I loved that house.” ([23:59] – Heather)
• Custody Drama:
  • Jace repeatedly explains the delays in meeting his son are due to a bitter custody battle and strict court restrictions.
  • Heather makes elaborate preparations for the child, turning a room into a little boy’s space.
• Financial Dependence:
  • Jace never seems to have money, despite working at Oracle.
  • “How can this be? Like, you’re getting Oracle paychecks… he just never seemed to have money.” ([25:19] – Heather)
• Signs of Trouble:
  • Increasing tension: Jace becomes emotionally distant, stays away from home, and picks fights.
  • “August 2021 was such a brutal month because he just stopped coming home. He was claiming he was sleeping in the car…” ([28:05] – Heather)

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The Discovery: Lies Unravelled ([29:25]–[37:13])

• Heather’s Investigation:
  • Accidentally logs in to Jace’s email and finds him active on multiple dating apps, exposing numerous simultaneous affairs.
  • “Instead it’s bumble, match, badoo, zoo… Like he’s on every dating app. I’m like, what?” ([29:54] – Heather)
• Theft & Deeper Deceit:
  • Discovers emails confirming the sale of her mother’s stolen jewelry on Kijiji.
  • “It was a Kijiji ad for Tiffany bracelet, Tiffany ring… I’m like, oh my God, what the fuck? That’s my mom’s stuff.” ([30:37] – Heather)
• True Identity:
  • Finds court documents with a different name: Jason Porter, not “Jace Peretti.”
  • “My stomach went up in my throat… Back in 2012, Jayce pled guilty to multiple fraud charges and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison.” ([37:45]–[38:27])

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Immediate Fallout and Confrontation ([39:18]–[49:16])

• Triumph of Logic Over Emotion:
  • Heather gathers as much evidence as possible through screenshots before she’s locked out.
• Police Involvement:
  • Cops are largely unhelpful: “Can I get a restraining order? …They basically laughed at me… He is your co-tenant and he has rights according to the lease.” ([41:37] – Heather)
• Confrontation & Gaslighting:
  • Jace confronts Heather, remains largely unfazed, and behaves as if nothing is wrong: “He’s in the kitchen, going to the coffee machine to make himself an espresso… and shrugs…” ([45:35] – Heather)
• The Escape:
  • Heather and her friend Kristen secure evidence, lock the house, and eventually depart for safety.
• Aftermath:
  • Jace moves out, steals more items, and quickly moves in with another girlfriend, giving her Heather’s things.

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The Scope of the Scam ([50:12]–[54:13])

• The Final Heartbreak:
  • Finds under the bed all of Jace’s court papers, showing the custody battle was a complete fabrication, as were birthday and Christmas cards given “for his son.”
  • “There was no lawyer. There was no nothing. It was all a lie.” ([51:10] – Heather)
• Scale of Theft:
  • Heather’s total loss, when calculated, is over $50,000 in value—through direct theft, fraudulently obtained possessions, and credit card use.
• Pattern of Victimization:
  • Heather connects with other female victims, realizing the MO is always the same: “The story being out in the open allowed them to come together.” ([53:01] – Andrea)

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Legal Proceedings and Systemic Failure ([54:13]–[56:53])

• Obstruction & Further Crimes:
  • Court adjourned due to anonymous flyers at the courthouse accusing Jace, which listed Heather's contact info, implicating her in jury tampering.
  • “Jace was eventually arrested for obstruction of justice, jury tampering… these are very serious allegations.” ([55:40] – Heather)
• Sentencing:
  • Jace pleads guilty to theft over $5,000 and possession of stolen property over $5,000 in January 2025.
  • The judge gives him two years less one day, more than even prosecutors asked.
  • “It wasn’t just a robbery and theft. It was calculated, done over a length of time. There was the intimacy and bringing him into my family. He really betrayed our trust.” ([56:27] – Heather)

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Healing, Community, and Activism ([56:53]–[59:06])

• Therapy and Self-Repair:
  • Heather describes intensive therapy, EMDR, meditation, and yoga as essential to her recovery.
  • “Sharing my story gave me back my story. It gave me control, confidence, the power back.” ([57:19] – Heather)
• Advocacy:
  • She has become a prominent voice for criminalizing romance scams and supporting victims.
  • “And after all of this, it’s still not a crime what he did to me… I just wish the system would recognize the emotional abuse, especially if it’s from a known felon.” ([57:36] – Heather)
• Advice to Listeners:
  • “My story is not unique. There is a Jason in every town, city, park, province, country around the world. One in 25 people are a sociopath, psychopath, narcissist, whatever… Listen to those little nudges.” ([57:58] – Heather)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Realizing the Scale of Deception:

  “It’s not like he was cheating on me, because I don’t think you can call it cheating when what you do is prey on women… when you are a hunter on these dating apps trying to find more victims.”
  – Heather [39:02]

• On Gaslighting:

  “You’re still gaslighting me. You’re still trying to turn this around and make it like it’s my fault.”
  – Heather [49:18]

• On Connecting with Other Victims:

  “All the women I’ve connected with, they’re lovely… every now and then, one of them will call and they’ll be like, I was thinking about you.”
  – Heather [53:20]

• On the Need for Systemic Change:

  “After all of this, it’s still not a crime, what he did to me… I do hope that times change…”
  – Heather [57:36]

• Advice to Listeners:

  “Those little nudges of not feeling right, it’s easy to ignore them. But I do think that’s your deepest intuition… and it’s the soft whisper, but I think we have to listen to that.”
  – Heather [57:58]

• On the Power of Telling Her Story:

  “When you tell your story, you’re taking ownership of it, and that is so empowering.”
  – Heather [59:06]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Heather’s Background & Family: [03:18] – [06:23]
• Meeting Jace & the Whirlwind Romance: [06:32] – [14:34]
• Building a Life Together, Early Red Flags: [19:02] – [28:05]
• The Discovery (Multiple Affairs & Theft): [29:25] – [37:13]
• Uncovering Jace’s True Identity: [37:25] – [39:18]
• Emotional Fallout & Police Involvement: [41:37] – [49:16]
• Aftermath, More Discoveries, Community with Other Victims: [50:12] – [53:20]
• Legal Proceedings & Sentencing: [54:13] – [56:53]
• Healing, Advocacy, Final Reflections: [56:58] – [59:37]

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Tone and Language

The episode is candid, raw, and empathetic—deeply respectful of victims while unflinching in describing the manipulations of serial con artists. Heather’s voice is both vulnerable and resilient, a mix of heartbreak, caution, and hope. The host, Andrea, is supportive and compassionate, guiding listeners through complex emotions and hard realities.

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Conclusion

This episode of Betrayal Weekly spotlights not only the devastating personal cost of romance scams but also the power of reclaiming one’s narrative. Heather’s journey from victim to advocate is inspiring, shining a light on the urgent need to recognize emotional and psychological abuses as grave as financial ones. The episode closes with Heather’s call to trust one’s intuition, connect with others, and never be ashamed to seek help—or to tell your story.

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Featured Resource:
Heather’s documentary: Rom. Com. Who the F is Jason Porter? – Available on Amazon Prime.

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If you or someone you know has been affected by a similar betrayal, reach out to the Betrayal Podcast team or connect with others through their Substack community.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Heather Rovette]

It's not like he was cheating on me because I don't think you can call it cheating when what you do is prey on women. When you are a hunter trying to find more victims.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. A show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. Heather Rovette is the middle child in a tight knit family.

[Heather Rovette]

I have an older brother and a younger sister. We were all very close in age.

[Andrea Gunning]

She loved growing up in Toronto, Canada. Her childhood was filled with all the

[Heather Rovette]

best things, joy and fun and love and adventure and kindness.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her parents had a great marriage.

[Heather Rovette]

My parents met in high school and were high school sweethearts. And he would look at my mom with such adoration.

[Andrea Gunning]

They also taught her the value of building a meaningful career.

[Heather Rovette]

My mom was a child psychologist, neuroscientist. She's very, very smart. And my father was a lawyer who specialized primarily in labor law.

[Andrea Gunning]

Through high school and university, Heather dated and fell in love a few times.

[Heather Rovette]

I've always been able to flirt with guys and there's been interest, but it wasn't my main focus to have a boyfriend or seek male attention.

[Andrea Gunning]

After graduating from university, Heather carved her own path.

[Heather Rovette]

I became a real estate salesperson and then two years later, I upgraded to broker.

[Andrea Gunning]

The career came easily to Heather.

[Heather Rovette]

I can see how you can transform a space or how you can make it your home. I just had this tenacity and energy.

[Andrea Gunning]

Over the next 10 years, Heather gained recognition in Toronto's real estate scene. By her late 30s, she had built a career she loved.

[Heather Rovette]

I loved working and it paid off. And then it allowed me to do cool things too, like go on trips.

[Andrea Gunning]

She also made a good amount of money. She decided to renovate her condo in Toronto and she invested some of her funds with a financial advisor.

[Heather Rovette]

I would meet with him quarterly and he would show me paperwork of how my money was doing and I thought it was great. And when push came to shove and I wanted to sell and get my money back, he basically disappeared. She'd been scammed, he got arrested and there was about five other people he did this to. The sad thing is Even though he was found guilty and ordered to pay restitution, I never saw a penny.

[Andrea Gunning]

She lost $127,000. The scam was damaging not only financially, but also to her sense of trust in other people. But with time, Heather accepted the loss and was able to rebuild. She was in her mid-40s and single. She managed to pull together the funds to finish renovating her condo.

[Heather Rovette]

And I transformed that condo into a beautiful space. And then one day I noticed, you know, there were just some things that weren't quite right.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather noticed an issue with the cabinets, so she called the company who had installed them. They agreed to send someone out to take a look.

[Heather Rovette]

He was like, no problem. We have a new service guy. He's great. I'm going to give him your contact info, and he'll be in touch. And probably a week later, on a Monday morning in July, I woke up to a text message. This is Jace, and I was hoping I could come by today to fix the outstanding work.

[Andrea Gunning]

An hour later, there was a knock

[Heather Rovette]

at my door, and I was greeted by this very ruggedly cute guy. I was a little befuddled. I found myself a little tongue tied and was like, oh, wow, sure, come on in.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace got to work fixing the cabinets in her kitchen.

[Heather Rovette]

And afterwards, I asked him if he could help me hang a couple towel bars up in the bathrooms, and he happily obliged. We were about three quarters of the way through hanging the second one, and his phone was ringing, and he was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so behind schedule. I gotta go. He goes, do you have this? I'm like, I got it. Don't worry.

[Andrea Gunning]

But she didn't have it, and I

[Heather Rovette]

kind of made more of a mess of it. It was on an angle, and I noticed on my kitchen island was his measuring tape. So I called him and said, you left your measuring tape here, and by the way, I've made a mess of this towel bar. And he laughed, and he said, you know What? I'm literally 10 minutes away. Why don't I swing back over and we'll fix it? And he comes in, and within two minutes, it's fixed.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather offered to treat Jace to lunch to thank him for going out of his way, and he agreed.

[Heather Rovette]

Over lunch, we started talking, and I did share with him about, you know, the stress of the renovation and the guy who stole my money.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jayce was sympathetic. He was also going through his own legal battle.

[Heather Rovette]

I learned a little bit more about him. He had a child, and he was going through family court, and he had his own software engineering business, but he was winding that down because of the divorce. I was like, this is so great. This guy just is so easy to talk to.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace used to be a software engineer, but after a difficult separation, he decided to take a break from office work. He wanted a job working with his hands, which is how he got into carpentry. At the end of their lunch, Jace insisted on paying.

[Heather Rovette]

I walked him back to his truck, and he said, you know, if you need any more help around the condo, I know we didn't get everything done. Message me, call me anytime. I'm like, okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

On her walk home, she couldn't stop smiling.

[Heather Rovette]

Oh, my gosh, was I just flirting? Like, that guy was really cute.

[Andrea Gunning]

Later that evening, she decided to try and tackle some other projects herself.

[Heather Rovette]

I went to look for my. What I like to call my single girl toolbox, which is the hammer, a leveler, and the one screwdriver. And I couldn't find my screwdriver anywhere.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she texted Jase.

[Heather Rovette]

I just said, hey, you didn't happen to see a green screwdriver? And he wrote back. He's like, well, what can I say? I found myself later in the day in possession of your screwdriver. And I didn't know what to do with it, if I should be honest or just return it.

[Andrea Gunning]

He told her that he was holding her screwdriver hostage. She thought it was cute, funny, even.

[Heather Rovette]

That led to about two weeks of really flirtatious banter over text. And I thought it was really fun. Every time I got a text from him, it was like a bing, like an endorphin hit.

[Andrea Gunning]

They started texting every day. Jace wasn't shy about his attraction to her.

[Heather Rovette]

I remember he sent this one message, and he said, just please tell me you know how sexy you are, Heather. I'm like, what? And I jokingly said, well, you should see me when I'm really cleaned up. I mean, you met me. I was like, just rolled out of bed. Lol. And he said, no, it's not that. He goes like, it's your mind. Like, do you know how freaking sexy that is to me? And I was like, wow, this is so refreshing. Like, this guy isn't just about how I look. He likes my mind. Like, this is awesome. So there was this tension that was definitely building and this flirtation.

[Andrea Gunning]

Finally, after two weeks of flirting, Jace asked her out on a proper date.

[Heather Rovette]

He showed up on a motorcycle, which I thought was really sexy. We walked to a cute little Italian restaurant around the corner from my house.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was a Great date. And Heather learned more about him.

[Heather Rovette]

He shared with me how his mom had died when he was a teenager. And he talked a bit more about the custody battle. And I asked him and I'm like, that's pretty heavy stuff. Like, how do you deal with that much loss and that much pain? And he said, I put it all in boxes.

[Andrea Gunning]

He was being really vulnerable with her, and she was impressed with how he was able to deal with everything he had gone through. She found it really attractive.

[Heather Rovette]

The date ended and we walked back to my place and we're both sort of shuffling in the doorway and I'm like in my mind going, is he gonna kiss me? And I was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna go for it. So I leaned in to kiss him. I was like, hey, thanks, bye. That was really fun. And next thing I know, he's pushed me up against the wall and we start making out. And this kiss was like a kiss I've never experienced before.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was passionate and intense. Jace left her in the doorway stunned.

[Heather Rovette]

I went to sleep that night with the biggest smile on my face. When I woke up the next morning, there was already a text message from him saying, good morning, Heather, it's a beautiful day and I hope you're smiling like something cheesy but lovely. And I was like, wow.

[Andrea Gunning]

The next night, Jace came over to

[Heather Rovette]

her place and he brought a bottle of wine. In my mind, I'm thinking, this is like really your second date with this guy. You don't know him, you know, should you do the whole like three date rule or is it a three week rule or a three month rule or. I don't know. And all of a sudden, whatever self imposed rules I had were just out the window.

[Andrea Gunning]

They couldn't wait to see each other again. It was the start of a summer romance.

[Heather Rovette]

A couple weeks later, he took me out and bought me a motorcycle helmet. And we, that summer, went everywhere on the motorcycle. It was so fun. We had such a good time. I loved every minute of it. I don't think I slept a whole night for at least three months because I just was so excited having this gorgeous human being lying beside me. I was like, oh my God, am I dreaming? This is crazy.

[Andrea Gunning]

And soon enough we were saying, I love you.

[Heather Rovette]

He said it first.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather introduced Jace to her family.

[Heather Rovette]

In September, he met my mom and she really liked him. My birthday, which is in October, he met my sister and her boyfriend. And then a couple weeks later, he met my dad.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was harder for her to meet Jace's family because a lot of them still lived in Italy.

[Heather Rovette]

He was born in Italy and both his Italian grandfathers fought in World War II for the Allies.

[Andrea Gunning]

He came from a fascinating background.

[Heather Rovette]

When my friends started meeting him, they all thought he was pretty great and I was just so happy. Life was pretty electric. Even like the simple activities like going grocery shopping became fun because I wasn't doing it alone anymore and I felt that my future was limitless and we were just gonna live the best life ever. Ever.

[Andrea Gunning]

Secrets, Lies, Infidelity, Deceit so what happens when the person you love the most turns out not to be who you think they are? Your Sunday nights just got a lot more interesting because Betrayal is now a primetime TV show. I implore you to watch Betrayal, Secrets and lies Sundays at 10pm 9 Central on ABC and stream on Disney and Hulu every Sunday. A new story of staggering Betrayal.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Heather Rovette had a meet cute with a man who fixed her kitchen cabinets. His name was Jace Peretti. Heather and Jace fell hard and fast, and a whirlwind summer romance turned into a solid relationship.

[Heather Rovette]

My second birthday with him, he said, check your email. And I said okay. And I looked at my email and there were Air Canada tickets from Toronto to Rome. And I looked at him, I was like, we're going to Italy. And he said, we're going to Italy. And I was like, wow, I can't believe we're going to go.

[Andrea Gunning]

During this time, Jace was dealing with a lot of stress. He wanted more time with his young son, but he and his ex were constantly in and out of family court.

[Heather Rovette]

It was really hard for him. He had been the primary parent because he was working from home. So he went from spending all this time with his kid to now only seeing him two times a week for supervised visits.

[Andrea Gunning]

When Heather asked Jace about the custody arrangement, he explained because he had both

[Heather Rovette]

a Canadian and an Italian passport, her Lawyer put the idea into her mind and the court that Jace had the capability of kidnapping their son and taking him to Italy.

[Andrea Gunning]

She felt for Jace. He wasn't that guy. He loved his son.

[Heather Rovette]

He would go to the town she was living in and he would take him out for dinner, and then he would take him home and tuck him in and say goodnight to him and read him stories.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather and Jace had been together for two years. They were living together in Toronto, but she had never met his son. With this custody arrangement, it put their relationship in a holding pattern.

[Heather Rovette]

Honestly, not meeting his son in the family court was the albatross around our relationship's neck. It was the only thing we would fight about. I just couldn't understand that the family court was taking so long. I was like, this is so unfair.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather was trying to help Jace regain some agency in the situation. She tried to help him in any way she could.

[Heather Rovette]

I was like, you need a lawyer. So I had arranged a meeting for him with another very well known Toronto family lawyer. And she said, the trial's just around the corner and things will get settled. Let's hold off on introducing Heather for now.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was frustrating, but Heather didn't want to do anything that would compromise Jase's custody of his son. She agreed it was best to wait until everything was settled to bring his son into their lives. In the meantime, she wanted to set up their home so when the time came, they would be prepared to welcome him.

[Heather Rovette]

I turned the guest room into a little boy's room, and I had toys for him and books for him and games for him. And I spent two weeks online trying to find, like, the perfect duvet cover for his bedroom because I was so obsessed with making everything amazing for him. And I couldn't wait for him to come and start having sleepovers at our house.

[Andrea Gunning]

But every time she got her hopes

[Heather Rovette]

up, something would happen. And it just kept being pushed back. And then I remember in early February, he came home and he was a little upset and he said, you're never gonna believe it, Heather, but the trial's been set and it's when we're in Italy.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace had to be at the trial. There was no way around it.

[Heather Rovette]

I said, wow, okay, well, obviously we're not going to Italy. Like, we've been waiting for this now for two and a half years. Like, we'll just postpone the trip. I'll cancel the hotels and whatnot.

[Andrea Gunning]

They canceled their trip to Italy. When the day of the trial came,

[Heather Rovette]

he came home and he said, yep, things are good. We have a two week adjournment and then we're going back and she has to provide me with a full repayment schedule for the house and the line of credit that she shut me out of. And most importantly, instead of having two supervised visits a week, they were going to start phasing into unsupervised. And then one night sleepover on the weekend. And I was like, this is so great. I was like, yes, thank you. Like, finally, finally, finally.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was good news, but terrible timing.

[Heather Rovette]

And then in that two week window, Covid happened and the whole world got locked down, which meant no family court.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was March 2020 and Toronto went into lockdown. Soon, Heather and Jace began looking at houses to rent outside the city.

[Heather Rovette]

I wanted space and solitude. I found this house for rent, and it was perfect. And it was on five acres of property. It had this beautiful family room with a vaulted ceiling and a wood burning fireplace.

[Andrea Gunning]

They signed the lease together and moved to Aurora, Ontario. It was exactly the refuge they hoped it would be.

[Heather Rovette]

That winter, we had fires almost every day. I loved that house. I remember one day a couple weeks after we moved in, we were standing on the back deck and there's wild turkeys and often you'd see deer and bunnies. And he said this would be the best place to have a backyard wedding. And I was like, yes, it would.

[Andrea Gunning]

They started daydreaming about throwing a big celebration at the house. Once Covid restrictions lifted during the lockdown, Heather and Jace had to find new ways to connect with friends and family. Heather called her mom often.

[Heather Rovette]

My mom, probably back in April, called and she was like, heather, have you seen my bracelet? Or have you seen this necklace? And I'm like, no. And I'd get off the phone and I'd look at Jace and I'm like, I think my mom's starting to, like, forget things. You know, she seems to be misplacing all her stuff. It was just like one thing after the other with her. Like, my grandmother died of dementia.

[Andrea Gunning]

Dementia ran in Heather's family, but there wasn't much they could do from afar. Plus, the pandemic had destabilized both Heather and Jase financially. He had just started a new remote job back in software development.

[Heather Rovette]

He had gotten this job for Oracle, but even when we moved to Aurora and we had to pay the first and last month's rent and a security deposit, I ended up paying for all of it because he didn't have anything saved. How can this be? Like, you're getting Oracle paychecks when Push came to shove, he just never seemed to have money.

[Andrea Gunning]

Between his custody battle and Covid, Jace had depleted his savings. But what was in his bank account didn't matter to Heather. She could support the both of them. The bigger issue for her was that she still hadn't met Jase's son.

[Heather Rovette]

I had set up the room for his son in the house and he still kept going two times a week on his supervise visits to see his son. I'm starting to really resent the situation.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the end of 2020, Heather bought a furniture and decor business and moved the inventory into their home.

[Heather Rovette]

And when we moved to Aurora, Jay started getting really into building furniture. I was like, well, that's a no brainer. I can sell all that inventory and make my investment back tenfold and we can sell all this furniture.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jase was working more and more at Oracle. He was coming home late and when he was home, he was exhausted from working long hours. He never seemed to have energy for Heather or for their new furniture business. The couple started getting in fights more often.

[Heather Rovette]

By June of 2021, I was getting frustrated with my life with him because I felt like the world's opening up and here we are and he seems to always be working and he never wants to do anything. And I just felt very isolated. She wasn't happy, so I was like, fuck it. And I said something like, you know, if you're not into this relationship, just tell me. And then that turned into a pretty escalated heated argument and he left. And I felt really bad and said, you know, I think I'm going to go down to the city for a couple days just to give us a bit of space.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather wanted to actually talk with him. Something was going on, but he wasn't giving her anything. After a few days apart, Heather headed back to their house.

[Heather Rovette]

And I call him and he said, oh, hey, I'm just about to go tee off. I'm like, what, you're going golfing? And he goes, I'm not quite ready to forgive you yet.

[Andrea Gunning]

Forgive her for what? She hadn't done anything. But Jayce hung up the phone.

[Heather Rovette]

He finally gets home from golfing and he goes, by the way, I washed the sheets, the duvet cover is still in the dryer. I was just crying like, I don't understand what's going on. The more I cried, the more he was actually getting kind of angry and frustrated. I started going, this just doesn't seem normal. But I just kept saying, you know what, we'll get through it. We love each other and we'll get through this. But August 2021 was such a brutal month because he just stopped coming home. He was claiming he was sleeping in the car or sleeping at the office and he would randomly stop by the house to, like, pick something up.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather had uprooted her life to be with Jace. She'd supported him financially for years. She decorated a bedroom for his son to stay in. But all of a sudden, a switch had flipped. Jace had discarded her. Heather didn't know what to do.

[Heather Rovette]

I've gone through the whole month of August alone, living in this big house by myself and just hurting so badly. Every effort I made to mend us, he just spat venom back at me. And it was a really scary time.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then one afternoon, Heather was doing work on her laptop when signing into one of her accounts, a screen popped up with all of her saved passwords, including the login for Jase's email. Heather wondered if his email account might hold some of the answers she couldn't get from Jase himself. So she typed in his password.

[Heather Rovette]

All of a sudden, I'm in his email.

[Andrea Gunning]

She started scrolling through his inbox expecting to find work emails and messages from

[Heather Rovette]

friends, but instead it's bumble match badoo zoo. Like he's on every dating app. I'm like, what?

[Andrea Gunning]

The emails revealed dozens of relationships Jace was having with other women. Heather couldn't believe what she was seeing. She kept scrolling.

[Heather Rovette]

That began me going down. Hours of rabbit holes and emails and screenshots. Then I got further and I started seeing Kijiji ads.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kajiji. Kijiji is like the Canadian version of Craigslist. People post items for sale. Heather saw emails confirming sales Jase made through the site.

[Heather Rovette]

It was a Kijiji ad for Tiffany bracelet, Tiffany ring. And I'd click on it. I'm like, oh my God, what the fuck? That's my mom's stuff.

[Andrea Gunning]

Secrets, lies, infidelity, deceit. So what happens when the person you love the most turns out not to be who you think they are? Your Sunday nights just got a lot more interesting because Betrayal is now a primetime TV show. I implore you to watch Secrets and lies Sundays at 10pm 9 Central on ABC and stream on Disney and Hulu every Sunday. A new story of staggering betrayal.

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[Andrea Gunning]

That's redfin.com for months, Jace was growing more and more distant. Everything Heather did to try and reconnect only pushed him further away. One day, Heather accidentally logged into Jayce's email and discovered he was using multiple dating apps. Heather was horrified. The man who she'd built a life with for the last three years had dozens of other relationships. As she scrolled through his inbox, she saw something else that made her stomach drop. Jayce was selling jewelry online, and Heather recognized the pieces.

[Heather Rovette]

The first one I opened was for this Tiffany necklace. It was a white gold circle with diamonds and a simple chain. I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's my mom's necklace. You know, I have pictures of her wearing it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Looking through the rest of Jace's jewelry sales only confirmed what she feared. He had been stealing her mom's jewelry for years and selling it online.

[Heather Rovette]

I was just horrified that he could

[Andrea Gunning]

do that and horrified by how long he had been doing it for.

[Heather Rovette]

It wasn't like he just did it all at one foul swoop. It wasn't like a break and enter where you're just like throwing everything in a bag and getting out of there.

[Andrea Gunning]

The dates of the jewelry sales told an eerie story. Jace had been stealing it piece by piece. He would steal a necklace when they went over to her parents house for dinner, and then the next time it would be earrings. Because he did this so slowly and insidiously, it took Heather's mom months to even notice.

[Heather Rovette]

And it wouldn't be until she eventually, like, opened the entire safe box that she saw it was all empty. All the bags and boxes were there.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather sat in front of her laptop, seething. She wanted an explanation.

[Heather Rovette]

I called him. He didn't answer.

[Andrea Gunning]

She knew he would twist this, try to explain his way out of it. She would need proof of everything she was seeing. So she got to work.

[Heather Rovette]

I just took screenshot after screenshot and I just sat there for hours.

[Andrea Gunning]

As she took screenshots of everything, the full extent of his deception became clear. Jayce had another life since the beginning.

[Heather Rovette]

And when I went back and went through the email, I'm seeing email after email of like, you're a match. You're a match. Going back our entire relationship Then she

[Andrea Gunning]

came across an email that changed everything. It was about his family court proceedings. Heather clicked on the attachment. Her eyes locked on a line at the top of the page. Name of respondent Jason Porter. It was a completely different name. The document made no mention of Jace Peretti.

[Heather Rovette]

My stomach went up in my throat and my throat went in my stomach and I felt cold and hot at the same time.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she googled Jason Porter.

[Heather Rovette]

I was just shocked. At the very end of 2011, there was a warrant out for his arrest and all the news outlets were picking it up here in Ontario and they dubbed him the Online Romeo because he had been meeting women and stealing from them. This cannot be my Jace. This is not my life. This is not the man I love. Like, how is. How did I not see this?

[Andrea Gunning]

Back in 2012, Jayce pled guilty to multiple fraud charges and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison. He was released in 2014. After getting out of prison, he changed his legal name from Jason Porter to Jace Perotti. By the time he met Heather a few years later, he was going by a variation of that name, Jace Peretti. Heather was sick. This was so much darker than she imagined. Jayce wasn't just lying to cover up the fact that he was cheating, he was lying about who he was.

[Heather Rovette]

It's not like he was cheating on me, because I don't think you can call it cheating when what you do is prey on women, when you are a hunter on these dating apps trying to find more victims.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was getting dark out. Then the phone rang.

[Heather Rovette]

I was like, holy shit, it's him. It was probably going on like 8:30, 9:00 clock at this point on a Friday night of a lot. It was Labor Day weekend here in Canada.

[Andrea Gunning]

She picked up.

[Heather Rovette]

I'm trying to be calm, cool, and like, I do not want to let him know that I'm onto him. And I just remember this so well. I could hear crickets in the background.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace told her that he was in the city for the night.

[Heather Rovette]

He's like, oh, I just got back to the offices. We just finished up. I'm like, oh, wow, that's really late. That's so weird though, because, you know, I grew up in Toronto. I've never heard crickets. Never heard crickets.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather tried to hide her suspicion, but it was hard.

[Heather Rovette]

And I said, I feel like I don't even know who you are anymore, Jace. He was like, what do you mean? I was like, I've gone from spending every weekend with you to now, like the past month. It's nine o' clock on a Friday night and I have no idea what you're doing this weekend. Like we're supposed to be working on our relationship and I just feel like I don't even know who you are anymore.

[Andrea Gunning]

He recommended that they talk over dinner on Sunday. And Heather agreed.

[Heather Rovette]

And within minutes of getting off the phone, I refreshed and I was logged out of all the different accounts that I had been in. And I was like, uh, oh.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace must have heard the suspicion in Heather's voice. He knew he'd been caught. Heather called her friend Kristin, who rushed out to Aurora to help her figure out what to do.

[Heather Rovette]

She's now sitting on the couch reading through all the screenshots and she's like, this is his job. I think he's getting women to send him money.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather's friend was right. He had never been a software engineer for Oracle. His full time job was being a con artist, a romance scammer. In the course of just a few hours, Heather's understanding of the man she loved had been completely rearranged. She saw that everything about him was a carefully constructed character. The Jace she cared so deeply for did not exist anymore. And now she was faced with Jason Porter, a stranger. The next day, Heather's sister and brother in law encouraged her to call the police.

[Heather Rovette]

They sent two police officers to the house and I start telling the cops what I've discovered. And the cops asked me if he had hurt me and I said physically? And they said yes. And I was like, well no, but I am scared. And I said to the cops, can I get a restraining order? And they basically laughed at me. They're like, no, we can't give you one. And I was like, oh, okay, well it's okay. I wouldn't call a locksmith and change all the locks. And they said, I wouldn't advise you to do that, ma'. Am. He is your co tenant and he has rights according to the lease. And that's when I looked at them, I was like, how can our lease even be real? Like the name on the lease is Jace Peretti. He's not Jace Peretti. They just dismissed me. And then, you know, their parting words were basically, but if he does come back to the house and you feel scared, call 911 and we'll come back.

[Andrea Gunning]

The police couldn't really do anything. It left Heather in shock.

[Heather Rovette]

I'm in disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick. The reality, I guess is slowly sinking in that my life is all a fucking lie.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Heather's parents had a plan. Jace had been borrowing her dad's car.

[Heather Rovette]

That whole summer, Jase had been driving around in my dad's Mercedes SUV because my dad had stopped driving, There had been no payment, and he was just freely driving around.

[Andrea Gunning]

Maybe they could have him arrested for car theft. Heather's dad went to the police to explain the situation.

[Heather Rovette]

The advice that the officer had given him was send him a text message and just say that you want your car back by such and such a date and time, and if you don't get it back, you're going to call the police and report it stolen.

[Andrea Gunning]

That's what they did. Heather's dad texted Jace.

[Heather Rovette]

As soon as my dad sent that, my phone's ringing and it's him. And then I'm getting text messages saying, what the hell's going on? I'll be home in 20 minutes.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace was on his way to the house.

[Heather Rovette]

At that point, he must have known the jig was up.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather began to panic. She was grateful that she wasn't alone and that her friend Kristen was there.

[Heather Rovette]

Kristen is the one who called 911. We're terrified. It was a pretty big house and there was a lot of doors. And I'm running around just like, double checking. Everything is locked. We're turning off all the lights.

[Andrea Gunning]

They debated whether it was safer to leave or stay locked in the house.

[Heather Rovette]

Kristin's like, I think we should leave. I think we should leave. I'm like, but where? Like, where are we going to go? I'm like, we're safe because, you know, like, he can't get in.

[Andrea Gunning]

The night before, despite the police's advice, Heather had changed the locks so she felt safe enough to stay.

[Heather Rovette]

And the 911 lady's like, don't leave. The police are on their way. The next thing you know, we hear him coming down the driveway and he's in my dad's car. Kristin's on the phone with 911. She's saying, like, he's hearing scare. He's at the back. And she's like, just stay calm. Just stay calm. The police have been dispatched. They're on their way. She's like, where the fuck are they? I can hear my heart thumping. We came down the driveway, and beside the garage is a side door. And then you're in the mud room. So I hear him, like, put his key in there. Then I hear him come to the front door, same thing, put his key in, didn't work.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was relieved.

[Heather Rovette]

And then the next thing I know, he's come in through the dining room window.

[Andrea Gunning]

He had broken into the house. Heather felt a surge of adrenaline, and she made a snap decision.

[Heather Rovette]

And I, like, bolt out of the bedroom, screaming. I said, I know who you are. I know you're Jason Porter. I know you've been online dating. I know you've been in prison. I know everything.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Jace was unfazed.

[Heather Rovette]

He's in the kitchen, going to the coffee machine to make himself an espresso. And he literally looks at me and shrugs and he's like.

[Andrea Gunning]

So minutes later, the cops arrived.

[Heather Rovette]

I'm, like, freaking out. He's so calm and cool and collected.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of the cops took Jace aside to talk with him one on one.

[Heather Rovette]

And I was like, what's going on? Like, why? Why aren't you arresting him? And they're like, he's claiming you assaulted him, Heather. I couldn't even believe what I was hearing. I guess that night we had the fight five weeks prior. Now he's claiming I assaulted him. And apparently there's some sort of proof.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather told them that never happened.

[Heather Rovette]

I said, you know, this guy is a master photoshopper, and he can edit videos. Like, whatever the evidence is, it's not real. And they said, jace is not going to press charges tonight. However, he is reinstating himself in the house, and you have to give him one of the new keys.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather was incredulous. She couldn't believe the police's response.

[Heather Rovette]

They said to me, if you don't feel safe, you should leave. The police left, and they left us in the house together.

[Andrea Gunning]

As soon as the police left, Jace jumped into action.

[Heather Rovette]

Jace goes into the office, which also had two French doors, and he took an iPhone cord and wrapped it around so I couldn't come in. And he sat there and he erased the computer. And then he comes out and he was like, I'll be back tomorrow early.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather wanted to be gone by the time he came back.

[Heather Rovette]

I loaded up the car with as much as I could, and Kristin brilliantly walked through the entire house and the entire downstairs where the showroom was and made recordings saying, this is Heather's. This is Heather's. This is Heather's. This is the business. That's Jace's.

[Andrea Gunning]

About a week later, Heather returned to the house for the first time.

[Heather Rovette]

There were already things missing. He had taken my Dyson. He took the Google speakers. He took my GoPro camera. Like, he took all the stuff.

[Andrea Gunning]

During this time, Heather found out Jace had a new girlfriend.

[Heather Rovette]

He was taking things that were mine and giving them to her. So the whole Month. I thought he was living at the office or sleeping in his car. He had, in fact, moved in with this other woman.

[Andrea Gunning]

She later learned that when she'd gone to the city for a few days and Jace mentioned washing the sheets, it was because his new girlfriend had been at the house and had slept in her bed. Heather's parents decided to press charges for the stolen jewelry. Jace agreed to turn himself in, but before he did, he showed up at the Aurora house and asked Heather to let him in to talk one last time.

[Heather Rovette]

I sat down at the kitchen table, and he's leaning at the island, and he still said, you know, you're the best thing that ever happened to me, Heather. I loved you. He tried to, like, convince me he never cheated on me. And this is all just a big misunderstanding. This is just going to devastate my

[Andrea Gunning]

son, the son she'd never met. In that moment, Heather felt split in two.

[Heather Rovette]

There's the part of me that's looking at him going, I love this person. My heart still looks at him and feels love. And then there's the other side of me. That's like disbelief. And he stole all your mom's jewelry, and he's a predator.

[Andrea Gunning]

She saw through the facade.

[Heather Rovette]

And I was like, you did all this. Like, you're still gaslighting me. You're still trying to turn this around and make it like it's my fault. And he left and he went off and got arrested.

[Andrea Gunning]

In September of 2021, he was arrested for theft under $5,000 and possession of property obtained by crime. When Jace erased the computer at their house in Aurora, he deleted a lot of evidence. Heather and her family hired a lawyer to help them prove that Jay stole far more than $5,000 from them. Heather wanted to get out of the house she shared with jayce. She began to sell off their belongings. She listed the furniture she bought for Jace's son on Facebook marketplace, and began clearing out the kids bedroom, which had sat empty during their whole relationship.

[Heather Rovette]

Then I see this, like, all this stuff under the bed. I'm like, what is that? So I pull it out and it's a plastic bag just stuffed with, like, papers.

[Andrea Gunning]

These were court documents.

[Heather Rovette]

And I realized I'm staring at all his things from family court, and I'm reading that he was only ever going to have these twice a week, supervised visits. There was no custody battle.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jason Porter does have a son. In fact, he has more than one child, though Heather only ever heard about one. But his custody arrangement had been decided in February 2019. A year before Heather and Jace moved in together. The hope that Jace and Heather would have unsupervised visits or sleepovers with his son was never a reality. The central tension of their relationship. Heather waiting to meet his son, the custody battle, it was all manufactured.

[Heather Rovette]

There was no lawyer. There was no nothing. It was all a lie. I'd been deceived for over three years about this family court situation that didn't exist. And also in that bag were the birthday cards and Christmas cards I had given his son.

[Andrea Gunning]

And that wasn't all. As she continued to clean out the house, Heather found more and more.

[Heather Rovette]

There were my mom's missing credit cards. There were all these SIM cards and credit cards and a burner phone. I can't even believe what I'm looking at.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jace didn't have to post Bailey, and shortly after being arrested, he was released again.

[Heather Rovette]

August, September, October of 2021 were probably three of the worst months of my life because it was just exhausting.

[Andrea Gunning]

And what made it even harder was that she got little to no help from the police.

[Heather Rovette]

I realized when the police weren't going to help me, I wanted answers. I wanted somebody to hold this guy accountable.

[Andrea Gunning]

She got in touch with a local journalist at Toronto Life magazine.

[Heather Rovette]

They do often some really great investigative stories. And maybe like a week later, I was sitting down with a journalist, Jane Gerster, and she was incredible. I realized if I hold on to feeling embarrassed and ashamed about what he did to me, it just gives him more power and more fuel.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heather wanted to take back her story, and she wanted to stop Jace. This article would be a great way to do that. When the piece came out within days,

[Heather Rovette]

I'm having people reach out to me and I'm like, oh, my God. I'm connecting with more victims of his. And I have more people just randomly reaching out to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

She learned really quickly the scale of Jason Porter's con. He had scammed so many women, and their stories all followed the same pattern. Jace posed as the perfect boyfriend in order to gain access to their possessions. The story being out in the open allowed them to come together.

[Heather Rovette]

All the women I've connected with, they're lovely. Leslie, I talked to her yesterday. I talked to her all the time. She is such a beautiful, amazing woman. Judy. I have so much respect for her. She is such a titan in business. And there's some that I still haven't even met in person. But, like, every now and and then, one of them will call and they'll be like, I was thinking about you.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jay's hurt a lot of people. It took three and a half years for heather to finally see her day in court. Once everything was uncovered, Heather's family learned that Jace stole over $50,000 in value from them through stolen property purchases made with heather's credit card, Unpaid bills, and more. But because jace deleted everything off the computer, there wasn't enough evidence to prove the full extent of his crimes.

[Heather Rovette]

In January of 2024, we finally were set to start the trial, and as luck would have it, jace's lawyer was sick that day. So everybody got sent home, and court was going to readjourn on Wednesday, and I was going to be the first witness up. I got a phone call from the opp detective saying, don't bother coming to court. Court's been adjourned. Why? Well, some very serious allegations have been brought forward. They said, did you see flyers the other day at court? I'm like, flyers? Like, what are you talking about?

[Andrea Gunning]

The courthouse had been canvassed with flyers campaigning against jace.

[Heather Rovette]

And it's a picture of jace, and it says, guilty, jace karate. And he said, they basically implicate you for jury tampering heather.

[Andrea Gunning]

It looked like someone was trying to bias the jury against him, and that could have serious consequences.

[Heather Rovette]

At the very bottom of the flyer, it says something like, if you have more information or would like to be interviewed, contact heatherovettemail or call. And it was my phone number, But I'm like, oh, he actually got my phone number wrong by one digit.

[Andrea Gunning]

The police began investigating who was behind the flyers.

[Heather Rovette]

Jace was eventually arrested for obstruction of justice, jury tampering. And detective khan said to me, these are very serious allegations. These actually hold way more weight than the theft in crime.

[Andrea Gunning]

On January 20, 2025, Jace pled guilty to one count of theft of property over $5,000, and one count of possession of property obtained by crime over $5,000.

[Heather Rovette]

Two months later, there was a sentencing hearing, and we got to read our victim impact statements. And I went in person, and he was there, and he wouldn't look at me. He wouldn't acknowledge me.

[Andrea Gunning]

The judge ended up giving him more time than the prosecutors asked for.

[Heather Rovette]

So he got two years less one day. She definitely made a point of referencing that it wasn't just a robbery and theft. It was calculated, done over a length of time. There was the intimacy and bringing him into my family. He really betrayed our trust. The judge ordered him into custody, and he was led away in handcuffs.

[Andrea Gunning]

After her trial, Heather had to focus on healing and rebuilding her life.

[Heather Rovette]

I had two therapists. I Did a lot of EMDR for the trauma. I've gotten way more into meditating and Kundalini yoga. I know it all helps.

[Andrea Gunning]

Another part of her healing has been sharing her story. Heather told her story on a documentary alongside other women that were victimized by Jason Porter.

[Heather Rovette]

By talking publicly, I felt like it gave me back my story. Like, it gave me control, it gave me confidence, it gave me the power back.

[Andrea Gunning]

She's become a face of the movement to criminalize and stop serial romance scammers.

[Heather Rovette]

And after all of this, it's still not a crime what he did to me. You know, I really hope that times change, and I just wish the system would recognize the emotional abuse, especially if it's from a known felon.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's helping her, and she hopes her story brings awareness.

[Heather Rovette]

My story is not unique. There is a Jason in every town, city, park, province, country around the world. One in 25 people are a sociopath, psychopath, narcissist, whatever. If something doesn't feel right, you ought to be able to speak to that person and get a straight answer. But it's very hard when you are being conditioned, groomed, love bombed, and you're not thinking straight. And I do think those little nudges of not feeling right, it's easy to ignore them. But I do think that's, like, your deepest intuition. Like, that's something in you that's saying, like, that doesn't listen, listen. And it's the soft whisper, but I think we have to listen to that.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

[Heather Rovette]

Your podcast, I feel, helps heal the internal bruises that we can't see. Like, you just feel this. Like, oh, my God. It's not just me. I'm not so alone. I'm not making up how I'm feeling. Like, it's so validating. It's that human heart connection that's so important. When you tell your story, you're taking ownership of it, and that is so empowering.

[Andrea Gunning]

If you want to watch Heather's documentary, you can find it on Amazon Prime. It's called Rom. Com. Who the F is Jason Porter? On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

[Heather Rovette]

She made it seem like it was a normal thing, but we'd have gold bars, a gold bar. I remember at the time it being, like, $10,000. It was like, the slow burn to, like, that wasn't weird to me. I don't think I was even always told what I was doing. I just did whatever she asked me to do.

[Andrea Gunning]

If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your Betrayal story? Email [e-mail] that's betrayal podmail.com or follow us on Instagram betrayalpod. You can also connect with me on Instagram andreagunning to access our newsletter, view additional content and connect with the Betrayal community. Join our [e-mail] we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Laborde, with additional production from Ben Federman. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing and mixing by Matt d' Alvecchio Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins Betrayal's Theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Mib Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Heather Rovette]

Honestly, honestly, Honestly.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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