Podcast Summary: Betrayal (Season 4) – Introducing: Nobody Should Believe Me: The Advocate

Podcast: Betrayal: Seasons 1, 2, 3 & 4
Episode: Introducing — Nobody Should Believe Me: The Advocate
Host: Andrea Dunlop, iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts
Air Date: November 25, 2025

Overview of the Episode’s Main Theme

This special crossover episode introduces listeners to the fourth season of "Betrayal," shifting focus to the story at the heart of "Nobody Should Believe Me." In this season, Andrea Dunlop dives into the harrowing family history of Michelle, her mother Lisa McDaniel, and their extended family in Hazlehurst, Georgia. The core themes revolve around family secrets, the complexities of abuse (specifically Munchausen by proxy), the destructive power of deception, and the quest for both healing and truth after generational trauma. The story is told through deeply personal interviews, emphasizing lived experience over abstract data, and spotlights the courage required for survivors to speak up publicly against abusers within their own families.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Meeting Michelle and Setting the Stage

• Andrea introduces Michelle (03:08), a resilient woman living in Georgia whose “wisdom comes from surviving unimaginable horrors.”
• Michelle’s life is shaped by family secrets and the shadow of her mother, Lisa McDaniel—a woman with a dual public image as a champion patient advocate and a private history that includes jail time for child abuse.
• The episode immediately signals that this season will tackle complex questions of accountability, forgiveness, and the lasting scars of betrayal.

"Coming forward wasn’t an easy choice for Michelle. There has been a heavy silence over the horrifying events that have reverberated throughout generations of her family. But that silence ends today."
— Andrea Dunlop (04:46)

Intergenerational Silence and Coming Forward

• Michelle describes agonizing over the decision to speak up:
  • She’s nervous and admits to struggles with the possibility of hurting her mother and other relatives.
  • Her mother Lisa responds defensively, acknowledging past lies but resisting full accountability.
  • A cycle of gaslighting and emotional manipulation is evident in their interactions.

“I hope that it will be an opportunity to kind of air some things out and heal from a lot of things that I still don’t have answers to. I know there’s been some things, and it’s not all old stuff for me…”
— Michelle (12:06)

“Because you could literally be taking away our income and everything. You could literally be ruining everything that we’ve worked on, that I’ve tried to overcome and work hard for after all these years, you can literally take our whole entire life away.”
— Lisa McDaniel (12:47)

The Public Persona vs. The Private Reality

• Andrea contrasts Lisa’s online and professional persona with her hidden past:
  • Lisa's biography focuses on her advocacy for NMO (neuromyelitis optica) after her son Colin’s diagnosis.
  • In public, Lisa frames herself as a caring mother and advocate, omitting any reference to child abuse convictions.

“You’d never know from her carefully crafted public image that Lisa has done jail time for child abuse. Rather, her image centers on her advocacy around NMO and her work at the foundation.”
— Andrea Dunlop (09:00)

Family Dynamics and Patterns of Manipulation

• Michelle’s Aunt Sabrina provides vivid context (23:58–41:00):
  • Describes Hazlehurst, Georgia as a place where secrets never stay buried and everyone’s business is public knowledge.
  • Recounts the sisters’ upbringing, noting manipulative and emotionally abusive tactics used by their mother—strategies that Lisa later replicated.

“Everybody thought my mama was great… But my mama would be like, if you don’t do this, you don’t love me... When you’re growing up, you think, okay, that’s just normal. Everybody kind of deals with that. But then when you get older, you realize that’s not normal at all.”
— Sabrina (26:29)

• Early warning signs:
  • Sabrina recounts Lisa seeking attention through dramatic or dangerous stunts (throwing bricks through windows, feigning illnesses).
  • Violence and blame-shifting within the family—Lisa would manipulate parents and siblings, including physical threats like chasing siblings with a butcher knife.

“She did a lot. She would just do random things… She loved some attention.”
— Sabrina (33:51)

The Role of Motherhood and the Escalation of Munchausen by Proxy

• Motherhood as a trigger:
  • Lisa reportedly became pregnant, at least in part, to gain attention, and quickly lost interest once the spotlight faded.
  • Repeated self-injury and orchestrated emergencies, including dramatic episodes during pregnancy, drew concern and fostered a pattern consistent with Munchausen by proxy abuse.
  • Sabrina and Andrea discuss how this fits textbook patterns in these cases.

“She got pregnant on purpose as a way to get attention for herself, but I don’t know that she ever really planned on actually the baby surviving, if that makes sense.”
— Sabrina (44:04)

Struggling With Forgiveness and Boundaries

• Sabrina establishes firm emotional boundaries with Lisa, choosing to “love her from a distance” due to the ongoing risk of manipulation and harm.
  • The family has had to learn to forgive for their own peace, not for hers.

“I forgave her for me, for my inner peace. But it’s just constant… as an adult, I don’t have room for that. That doesn’t mean you have to accept how they act or what they do.”
— Sabrina (46:13)

Michelle’s Reflection and Advocacy

• Michelle grapples with her own motives:
  • She acknowledges that speaking out—especially in similar forums as her mother—brings anxiety, but distinguishes her actions as rooted in truth rather than manipulation (47:46).
  • Michelle is actively involved in Munchausen advocacy, working with Andrea and experts like Bea Yorker, and recognizes the importance of sharing lived experiences for survivor empowerment and education.

“I know that I’ve really struggled with doing this because my mom does this. My mom travels and she talks to doctors and she gives presentations… I’ve been so nervous and worried, does that make me like her?... But this is not built on lies for me. This is not built on manipulation. I just told the truth.”
— Michelle (48:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michelle and Lisa’s confrontation:

  • “I don’t know, Mama, but I don’t believe you. And I don’t trust you.”
    — Michelle (13:21)
  • “I did. I exaggerated it. Does that mean it’s muchhausen by proxy? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. But here’s the thing. Why label me with something I can’t overcome?”
    — Lisa McDaniel (13:58)

• On the impact of sharing survivor stories:

  • “What I hope is that when the general public and when child abuse professionals hear from somebody’s lived experience, that it is so much more impactful than reading data in a book.”
    — Hope Ybarra (07:20)

• Sabrina on family dynamics:

  • “You always had to just tread the water. Tread the water. Tread the water.” (28:19)

• Michelle articulating her why for coming forward:

  • “I just told the truth.” (48:38)

Important Timestamps

• [02:34–03:34]: Trigger warning and introduction to Michelle’s story
• [04:46–06:03]: Andrea and Michelle discuss the process and difficulty of coming forward
• [09:00–10:50]: Andrea lays out Lisa’s public persona versus her private, abusive history
• [22:38–47:46]: Scenes from Hazlehurst, Georgia, with Michelle’s aunt Sabrina providing background on Lisa’s childhood, manipulation, and patterns of abuse
• [47:46–48:38]: Michelle’s internal struggle with advocacy, truth-telling, and her mother’s legacy

Structure & Tone

• Language and tone: The episode maintains a reflective, deeply personal tone. Andrea provides context with gentle, empathetic narration, while Michelle and Sabrina speak candidly, often with raw emotion but grounded in clarity and resolve.
• Speaker attribution: Often direct, with segment transitions and conversational exchanges blending lived experience with journalistic investigation.

Conclusion

This episode sets the foundation for a season that promises to peel back the layers of a shocking and all-too-common form of familial betrayal. Listeners are invited into a family’s private reckoning with abuse and survival, where telling the truth becomes its own form of powerful, disruptive advocacy.

Next episode teasers preview upcoming revelations about undisclosed abuse, system failures, and the slow, painstaking fight for understanding and justice in cases of Munchausen by proxy.