Better Offline CES 2025: Day 5 - Pt. 2

Summary

Better Offline CES 2025: Day 5 - Pt. 2

Release Date: January 11, 2025
Host: Ed Zitron, Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

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I. Introduction to CES 2025

In this episode of Better Offline, host Ed Zitron and his dynamic panel of guests delve into the fifth day of the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2025. The discussion centers around the intersection of technology and society, highlighting both innovative advancements and the underlying concerns associated with rapid tech integration.

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II. AI-Powered Hotels: Balancing Innovation and Privacy

Kyle Chouinard introduces the concept of the Autonomous Hotel, touted as the first AI-powered hotel. This establishment leverages extensive user data to personalize guest experiences, from remembering coffee orders to adjusting room orientations.

• Kyle Chouinard [06:14]:
  "Collecting a lot of user data and then using that to personalize the experience."

However, the conversation quickly shifts to concerns about data privacy and the potential for surveillance.

• Ed Zitron [07:14]:
  "Really more data gifting in this scenario."

The panel debates whether the data collected is genuinely used to enhance guest experiences or if it poses risks of misuse and unauthorized sharing.

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III. Robotics at CES: The Rise of Automated Services

The panel explores the emergence of robotic assistants in hospitality, focusing on bartender robots like Atom. These robots are designed to handle drink orders and interact with customers autonomously.

• Robert Evans [24:21]:
  "It was a bartender."

• Kyle Chouinard [26:37]:
  "It's about convenience, avoiding human interaction."

While these robots showcase technological prowess, the guests express skepticism about their ability to replicate the nuanced service provided by human bartenders. Additionally, concerns about job displacement in the hospitality sector are discussed.

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IV. Labor and Unions in Las Vegas: Navigating Tech Integration

Gare Davis sheds light on the Culinary Union in Las Vegas and its efforts to protect workers amid increasing automation. The union has successfully negotiated provisions that require companies to provide a six-month notice before replacing workers with technology, allowing employees time to transition or seek alternative roles within the industry.

• Gare Davis [20:21]:
  "They've been working since 2018, probably longer actually."

The conversation highlights ongoing strikes at establishments like Virgin Hotels, where the union is pushing back against proposals that eliminate raises or threaten job security due to automation.

• Kyle Chouinard [22:18]:
  "They used to have their casino run by Mohegan."

This segment underscores the tension between technological advancement and labor rights, emphasizing the importance of safeguarding workers' livelihoods in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.

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V. Real-time Translation Technology: Bridging Language Barriers

The discussion moves to Sorenson's real-time translator, a device designed to facilitate multilingual communication at large events like CES and Las Vegas conventions. This technology promises simultaneous translation in up to 25 languages, including various dialects, enhancing accessibility for international attendees.

• Gare Davis [16:18]:
  "How do we ensure that these translations are accurate and culturally sensitive?"

While the technology is lauded for its potential to foster inclusive environments, the panel raises questions about its reliability and the challenges of moderating generated content to prevent inaccuracies.

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VI. Panel on AI, Deepfakes, and Disinformation: Navigating a Digital Battlefield

Gare Davis recounts attending a panel at CES focused on deepfakes and AI-generated misinformation. The discussion revolved around the arms race between creators of disinformation and the development of detection tools like Providence Systems.

• Robert Evans [46:08]:
  "Creating data to specifically push voters in one direction—what could go wrong with that?"

The panel addressed the ethical implications of AI in political campaigns, emphasizing the difficulty in distinguishing AI-generated content from genuine communication, thereby exacerbating issues of trust and authenticity in digital interactions.

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VII. AI Products for Kids: Enhancing or Hindering Development?

The panel examines emerging AI-driven products aimed at children, such as Readyland's AI Storybook and Poe the AI Teddy. These products offer interactive storytelling experiences but raise concerns about content moderation and the potential impact on children's imaginative development.

• Gare Davis [54:12]:
  "Poe the AI Bear is actually generating live content unreviewed by moderators."

The guests debate whether such technologies support or undermine parental engagement and children's creative growth, highlighting the delicate balance between technological assistance and fostering genuine human connections.

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VIII. Reflections on CES and Tech Industry Trends

As CES draws to a close, the panel reflects on the show's evolution and its implications for the broader tech industry. They express frustration over the dominance of large corporate displays overshadowing smaller, more impactful innovations showcased in areas like Eureka Park.

• Ed Zitron [95:23]:
  "We have companies doing really useful things... then there's The Samsung Milk Simulator."

The discussion emphasizes the need for meaningful technological advancements that address real-world problems rather than superficial enhancements, advocating for a more human-centric approach to innovation.

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IX. Closing Remarks: Gratitude and Future Directions

In the final segment, host Ed Zitron extends heartfelt thanks to his guests and listeners, acknowledging the collaborative efforts that made the episode insightful and engaging. The panel expresses optimism for future episodes, aiming to continue exploring the profound effects of technology on society.

• Robert Evans [120:00]:
  "What Better Offline has tried to do with this entire show is CES is a combination of people who don't want to be here and do want to be here."

The episode concludes with a commitment to fostering independent voices and maintaining a critical perspective on technological advancements, ensuring that the podcast remains a valuable resource for understanding the evolving tech landscape.

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Notable Quotes

• Kyle Chouinard [06:14]:
  "Collecting a lot of user data and then using that to personalize the experience."

• Ed Zitron [07:14]:
  "Really more data gifting in this scenario."

• Robert Evans [24:21]:
  "It was a bartender."

• Kyle Chouinard [22:18]:
  "They used to have their casino run by Mohegan."

• Gare Davis [54:12]:
  "Poe the AI Bear is actually generating live content unreviewed by moderators."

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Conclusion

Better Offline CES 2025: Day 5 - Pt. 2 offers a comprehensive exploration of the latest technological innovations showcased at CES, intertwined with critical discussions about their societal implications. From AI-powered hospitality to real-time translation and AI products for children, the episode provides listeners with nuanced insights into how technology is reshaping various facets of life. The panel's candid reflections emphasize the importance of balancing innovation with ethical considerations, advocating for technologies that genuinely enhance human experiences without compromising privacy or creativity.

For more insights and updates, tune into Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Ed Zitron]

Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered who or what was flying around up there? We've seen planes, helicopters, hot air balloons, and birds. But what if there's something else, something much more ominous that appears under the COVID of night? Silent, unseen, watching. They may be right above your car late one night as you cruise down the road. Or look like mysterious lights hovering above your home. Drones. Or are they? We used the word drone because it was comfortable to other people. One minute was there and one minute it wasn't. Oh, that is beyond creepy. Do you feel like this drone was targeting you specifically?

[Robert Evans]

Yes, absolutely. Listen to Obscurum Invasion of the Drones.

[Ed Zitron]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Robert Evans]

And often on tech stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of.

[Ed Zitron]

Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Robert Evans]

One of the kind of tricks for.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Surviving Mars is to live there long.

[Robert Evans]

Enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy.

[Gare Davis]

For a complex reality.

[Robert Evans]

How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in.

[Kyle Chouinard]

This place where there's no electricity at night? Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity. So join us.

[Ed Zitron]

Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. 1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning.

[Robert Evans]

Through them and their new perspective.

[Ed Zitron]

Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Whoa.

[Gare Davis]

My lights in my living room just flickered.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm a little nervous. I'm excited.

[Robert Evans]

I'm excited nervous.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You know, I'm a very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Ed Zitron]

That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a.

[Robert Evans]

Lot of really good advice that I'm.

[Ed Zitron]

Gonna have to really think about.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Wow, that's crazy. Yes, that is accurate.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as.

[Ed Zitron]

Part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gare Davis]

Hey, this is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner.

[Ed Zitron]

And Kira K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You forgot to say all my Miss.

[Robert Evans]

America, by the way.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with me and Kira.

[Ed Zitron]

We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps.

[Robert Evans]

And interviews with incredible people who have.

[Ed Zitron]

Figured out how to make golf their.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between.

[Gare Davis]

By the way, golf isn't just for.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The dads, Brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and.

[Ed Zitron]

We'Re not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.

[Gare Davis]

So if you want to keep up.

[Kyle Chouinard]

With us, and here is Yap, tune into our new podcast, Listen to Quiet.

[Ed Zitron]

Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Women'S sports production in partnership with Deep.

[Ed Zitron]

Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Call Zone Media.

[Robert Evans]

We're still here. We're still in Las Veg. Better offline. I'm still at Zitron. And this is still better offline. This is the second episode of Day five, our last two parter, and I was trying to think of something like glib and kind of sardonic to say, but I'm just gonna be honest. I've had one of the best weeks of my life. I've just been really enjoying myself. We've had so many really, really great guests. Got David J. Roth, of course, from Defector.

[Ed Zitron]

Hello.

[Robert Evans]

And Edward Nguesso Jr. Hello. And Kyle Chouinard of the Las Vegas Sun. And all week has just been awesome people. Kyle, I talked over you. I apologize.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Just saying hello.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that's enough. So, Kyle, it's Ed's show. Okay. Getting ahead of you. No. So you're a general assignment reporter. So what have you been covering at the show?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Well, it's pretty unique for me because, you know, a lot of the media that comes here is from, you know, across the country, across the world, looking at whatever new tech's coming, and I get to cover it from a local angle and how it affects Vegas and specifically, you know, what shown here could be implemented in the city in the next couple years.

[Robert Evans]

So can you talk a little bit about that? I'm a local. Yeah, I'm out in Green Valley, out in Henderson. Well, then, no, it's still Las Vegas. No hoa.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So, yeah, I was talking to a couple different companies this week. One of them was Autonomous Hotel, which is. They call it the first AI powered hotel.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, can you define any of that?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, so a lot of what that means is collecting a lot of user data and then using that to personalize kind of the experience of. It's a hotel slash apartment. So there's gonna be some split between there. But for the hotel, it's like remembering your coffee order, what direction you like, your windows, and then when you come, direction I like. No, like, if you like it facing south or west or north.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, sorry for your. Okay, that makes more sense for a sec. You've been, like, brutalized by CES long enough that I'm just like, okay, man, they got moving windows now?

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, the windows. I wasn't told this, but I'm pretty sure they're stationary, staying somewhere else. So, yeah, there's a lot of pretty much just data scraping from the week they were. I asked about, you know, data privacy and stuff like that, and they were all about, you know, whatever data they collect is the user giving it to them. And did they sell it? I imagine no, they said they were.

[Ed Zitron]

Really more re Gifting in this scenario.

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, they said, you know, they put a lot of emphasis on keeping that data very secure. You know, I was talking with the culinary union.

[Robert Evans]

No, no. But sorry, I had to push back. Yeah. Yeah. Secure is not the same as not sharing is, though.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Have they been remotely giving on. I mean, if the answer is you don't know.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure.

[Robert Evans]

No, no. But this is not a failing on you. This is them being like, thank God. Thank God we don't have to say. The thing is. Which is we are selling this to the points guy and airlines and hotels, because they. That's the thing. These hotels around here are like data warehouses.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

The amount of shit they collect on you is crazy. Not just through the. I actually, this is a question. Do you know anything about data collection practices here? And this is. I don't either. So if you don't.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I'm not super familiar with it. I mean, surveillance is nothing new in Las Vegas. You know, it's not rare to find hotels working with the government. That's pretty normal.

[Robert Evans]

In what ways do they work together?

[Kyle Chouinard]

You know, FBI, if they're looking for something. I'm not. I honestly don't know the.

[Robert Evans]

If there's even. Because I love living here. But I'm also a weird, greasy freak. And I understand what Vegas is, which is you walk in here if you've not been to Vegas, so you haven't spent a lot of time here. There are cameras everywhere. Yeah, everywhere you go. Not in the rooms, I think. No, but in the hallways in the casinos. And there are. You may think that the scariest place cameras can look at you is a bank. It's actually a casino. They are. They are watching. And you can make the glib. Ooh, the iron sky. No, for real, though, it's one of the safest places to be.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Because they are watching you and they're watching you because you could do stuff with their money, which is not good. But anyway, continue. So you've seen this. This AI powered hotel.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. And it's. It's opening next couple months.

[Robert Evans]

Which one is. Where is it?

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's actually by Legion. It's like, I think like a mile away from Legion. It's not on this trail.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, so it's one of the closer places.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Walking to Legion is fun.

[Robert Evans]

I have season tickets. Man, I want to die.

[Ed Zitron]

Can you walk it?

[Robert Evans]

You can walk from the mgm.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I. It's not Delano anymore. It's W. But I usually just park there and walk. Yeah, it's. I went to the Syracuse game.

[Robert Evans]

So.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. This is a question that I have always sort of struggled with here as a. And you know, in Los Angeles as well. Any of the sort of. As a New York person that, like, I like the idea of being able to either take mass transit or walk to a thing. And yet, like, Las Vegas isn't big enough. Like theoretically, like your phone will tell you that's a 45 minute walk. And yet I feel like most of that is just fully impractical.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I mean, it isn't that bad.

[Robert Evans]

To get to, though.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I was Talking with. Oh God, what's the cta? Not CEO, the other guy.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, I do not know. Don't worry.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I was talking to him and he was like, you know, asking for a bit of advice on CES and he's like, every walk is longer than you think it is.

[Robert Evans]

That's actually great conference advice.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So, but I'm still kind of confused. This AI hotel, what else does it do other than allegedly remember my preferences? Because I have an idea. You could have some sort of d'atar base of sort like a place for data. Data. And you could put the data in that base and then you could simply remember which way my thing where does. What does AI do with this bit?

[Kyle Chouinard]

So a lot of it's with their app. So they have this thing, it's key, it's called, it's K E E where they described it.

[Robert Evans]

What a great name.

[Kyle Chouinard]

They described it as. I have it here. A 247 butler in the palm of your hand. Amazing.

[Robert Evans]

Sure.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So it's just a lot of the requests that you'd be making, not really having to go through a human, just saying it into your phone and put it in your room.

[Robert Evans]

This doesn't add functionality to the hotel, surely, because a butler brings you things.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. So a lot of the functionality is just, I guess just take it having to avoid humans. I mean I asked them about that like, hey, how many humans are going to be working here? And it's around 30 in a hotel, which is not a lot.

[Ed Zitron]

I mean there's.

[Kyle Chouinard]

We've seen. That's what they told me. I, I want to say for myself.

[Robert Evans]

This isn't your company. Don't worry, I'm not mad at you.

[Gare Davis]

But this is like a full time.

[Robert Evans]

And part time employees.

[Kyle Chouinard]

That's what, that's what they said at.

[Ed Zitron]

A big like Las Vegas, 300 rooms.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's not that big.

[Ed Zitron]

That's still pretty big.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh yes.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, like that.

[Robert Evans]

That's 10 rooms.

[Kyle Chouinard]

But a lot of that also is apartments and you don't need as many stuff.

[Ed Zitron]

It is funny that that's like basically where the, the AI thing goes from being like. It's like a, you know, an application on your phone. It's like that. But it's AI to suddenly like you get to the. Where the actual rubber meets the road on all of this. Stu.

[Robert Evans]

I am going to stay there and I am going to do an episode.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

And I am going to have a piss fit. You are going to disappear. I am going, well, I will be disassociating but that's the. That's so. It's just frustrating because it's like, theoretically an AI hotel could work in the sense that if there were defined user preferences that they could just kind of move around them. I'm not talking about generative AI. I'm talking about theoretically, algorithms that are capable of knowing a user's preference, but only in a much larger hotel system. Like, I don't know, Marriott.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, well, it's interesting you say that because I asked them about that. I asked, you know, is there any interest from hotels in the area? And they said, you know, currently we're trying to get everything up and running and ready to go, but that there, there was a lot of interest from other hotels in kind of the system they're making sure. And right after I got on my interview, I saw someone from a Vegas hotel, a representative from a Vegas hotel come by and talk.

[Robert Evans]

Because this isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility for thinking about Marriott. For example, they have. I don't know why I'm talking up like a publicly traded hotel firm, but like, Marriott's pretty decent. Like, you can put your shit into it. And the frustration I have with the AI part is that, yeah, I've specified what kind of hotel pillow even very different from a hotel that I like in a hotel stay. I'm just not sure what else this does other than what David is suggesting, which is, what if we just had less.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Gare Davis]

People.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, it's the same thing as the stuff that we were talking about yesterday with the, like, smart homes. There's a lot of that with AI related stuff. And it seems like some of it, it's like a degree of convenience that like, doesn't just verge upon, but like, goes fully into infantilization or just like.

[Robert Evans]

But which is a place where you get infantilization.

[Ed Zitron]

Right. That's more of what you would. In some ways, like, it makes more sense with a hotel.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Isn't that what a hotel's for?

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, exactly, sort of. Right. Like you're removing variables from the equation.

[Robert Evans]

And it also feels like there are very ob. AI thinks a hotel could do, such as making check in quicker.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Making sure you check in with their.

[Robert Evans]

Making sure. No, but making sure the cleaning is done based on when. Like, I don't know. I'm. I ain't no tech doer, but I don't know if I had an algorithm that would say. And I'm sure Vegas has these. Where it's like, okay, we have a hotel of X size and Y number of People come in on a Friday so we can say that we need this much, but we have this one person.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, yeah, Vegas definitely has that.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So this isn't that.

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, this is about more the experience for the person. And I mean, to be fair, a lot of hotels. And I talked to Professor, I talked to a lot of people about this. A lot of hotels have just a billion different legacy systems running every single.

[Robert Evans]

Function, which feels like the things to upgrade rather than this, which is. And this is.

[Kyle Chouinard]

That's kind of their point.

[Robert Evans]

That's what they're trying to do.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's one completely integrated system for the entire hotel. You know, point of service, everything is connected to the.

[Robert Evans]

Gonna have so much fucking trouble selling that.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, sorry, just.

[Robert Evans]

There's no way. It's why we have airlines on 90s computers like you think that the Grazzi system of Venetian. Yeah, people know I use the Venetian a lot. You think they're gonna upgrade an entire multifaceted system? It seems like an unrealistic proposition. Well, that's.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

When I was talking to a professor from unlv. Great guy, Kyle, You're a real journalist.

[Robert Evans]

Also very clear here. Like, this guy's great.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm trying to be very, very accurate in my wording. One thing he told me is that that's one of the main reasons, I mean, hospitality is Vegas kind of unique. But hospitality as an industry is not known for being on the cutting edge. Yeah. It's known for kind of not the nicest way of saying it, being very stubborn and not really changing it. And one of the reasons they're kind of stubborn and don't really adapt to the times as quick is because of that. Because there's a million systems interacting with each other and when you change one. Oh God, that took down everything.

[Robert Evans]

It's an equilibrium thing. You can't just mess with one part of a hotel.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And that's kind of why, like for a new hotel for them, it's like, okay, let's not make a billion systems and then have to integrate them all later. Let's just get it at the outset.

[Robert Evans]

They can't be the first windows of hotels though. They cannot.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm not sure if there's other companies having that, but they were emphasizing that quite a lot.

[Robert Evans]

I'm just imagining startups will do that. So what else have you seen? Moving off of hotels?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the most interesting things I saw was from this company, Sorenson, which I believe is based in Utah. They're out west and so we were talking earlier about this being kind of like a decent use of AI. Like, there are still good uses of AI. No, I would love to hear them. And so it's a real time translator that works for. Specifically for longer form presentations in a city like Las Vegas. That's obviously very important. We have a convention authority. The way it works is that once it's set up by the event, all you do is scan a QR code and then you can have a real time translation of whoever's speaking at the front on your phone in, I think it's 25 languages. And one of the cooler parts about it is that they also trained it with different dialects.

[Robert Evans]

Okay. I was going to say. So is this generative AI?

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's a lot of training. Training data, sure.

[Robert Evans]

But is it a generative model? Is it a newer technology? Is it based on.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I believe it's a generative model.

[Robert Evans]

Right. So my one concern with that, and I'm glad that you mentioned dialects, is everyone that I've talked to about. I can't speak any other languages. I can barely speak English. I thus have no experience with it. But everyone I talk to is like, there are these subtleties.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And it sounds like. So how would. With extra dialect.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So it's like all good things. It's a very human solution to that, where they just have a lot of really trained people that pretty consistently are checking the models to make sure that they're working. They don't just set it to the side. They were really big on this. They don't just set it to the side and hope it works. That they are pretty consistently checking it with a group of trained professionals.

[Robert Evans]

One of the reasons I love having you here is being able to respond with this, which is. Vegas is quite intolerant of bullshit.

[Gare Davis]

Weird.

[Robert Evans]

For this place. It's the. You can bring whatever you want to ces, but it's like, oh, you want to sell to our beautiful casinos with our beautiful slot machines that bring us our tax.

[Gare Davis]

We love.

[Ed Zitron]

You are fucking our money.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you.

[Ed Zitron]

We can't have that.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you. You understand, we love our slot machines. Why we don't spend. We don't have state income tax.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Our beautiful slot machines. We love them, folks. But it's like Vegas is quite intolerant of just that don't work. Because shit that don't work is extremely unprofitable.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. And a lot. When you're working in the hospitality industry, your main job is to keep people happy. And when you run into Vegas, people are babies and when you are running into tech issues. And this was again, this professor, he's giving me all my lines.

[Robert Evans]

What was the professor's name?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, let me get it up.

[Ed Zitron]

No, no, don't worry about it.

[Robert Evans]

No, no, no, no. Look, this show can be quite cynical and shitty. And I say words that people don't like and they get upset with me and they email me every day and they say, ed, I hope you die. Ed, I imagine the cybertruck hitting you, Ed, I imagine the Ford F150 hitting you, Ed, I thought of a Ford F150 Raptor hitting you and you bounced and you went, ah, I'm in so much pain.

[Ed Zitron]

What's the professor's name?

[Kyle Chouinard]

His name is Mehmet erdem. He is UNLV's resorts. Sorry, the chair of UNLV's resorts gaming and golf management department.

[Robert Evans]

And I imagined a Prius here anyway. But that's the thing. I want these people on here because there is a thing I love about Vegas where there is a dishonest honesty, where it's just, you can't just fling shit here because it's a very working class city. It's a pragmatic city in many, many different ways. So it's kind of like I'm more willing to humor the idea that they would have this translation thing.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Just because putting aside all my feelings, Vegas would simply be like, nah, this fucking sucks. It's gonna get between the customer and the slot machines.

[Kyle Chouinard]

But I mean, when you're running a. I mean especially conference, like ces having real time translation when every panel's in English.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Very Anglophobic. Well, Anglo centric.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Not Anglophobic.

[Robert Evans]

Anglocentric.

[Kyle Chouinard]

When, you know, I'm talking to people and there's a billion languages here. And you mentioned working class. Another part. This is for a story I'm publishing. Later I talked to the culinary union about their tech protection.

[Ed Zitron]

Awesome.

[Gare Davis]

Cool.

[Robert Evans]

What did they say?

[Kyle Chouinard]

So they've been working since 2018, probably longer actually, but they've gotten protection since 2018, specifically regarding tech. Replacing workers with that when tech gets introduced that would affect someone's job. They have to. And they've negotiated this, they get a six month notice. And part of that, there's kind of two things that come out of that. One that gives them time to kind of work out the kinks. One example, Ted Papa George, the Treasury Secretary. Treasurer. Secretary told me was there was this new system for housekeepers that basically was sending them all across different zones, all across different floors. And they're like hey, you're gonna break the backs of the workers here.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And so with that time, they were able to get a fix, no problem. And what. It also does that if a job gets eliminated or if a position is eliminated that like Vegas has a. There's plenty of jobs. Yeah. So especially in the hospitality industry. So it gives people the time to find somewhere else within, you know, the industry, stay with the union, you know, keep their pension. And there's also a pretty decent severance package if your job is eliminated from.

[Robert Evans]

That's so fucking cool.

[Ed Zitron]

Working union, man. No, I simply accept no substitutes.

[Robert Evans]

Thing like I live here and people like Ed, you live in a vending machine. And that's why I like it. But also there are actual really strong unions here.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Strike I've been covering at Virgin. Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So what's the strike? I care way more about that than the doodads.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they've been on strike for a little bit now. Regarding which.

[Robert Evans]

Who is this?

[Kyle Chouinard]

This is Virgin Hotels with the Culinary union. The latest proposal, and this was from a little bit ago was. Well, the original proposal, I believe was no raise for the first couple years of the contract.

[Robert Evans]

And this was from Virgin.

[Kyle Chouinard]

From Virgin. And then the secondary proposal, at least the secondary proposal I heard about as a journalist was a consistent 30 cent per hour raise per year.

[Robert Evans]

Wasn't the argument from Virgin. They couldn't afford anything.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. And honest.

[Robert Evans]

How true was that?

[Kyle Chouinard]

So it's hard because they were private companies. Yeah. So kind of. So they used to have their casino run by Mohegan, which you can look like the tribe.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So like you can look at that data and their casino, or I think it was the only one that was, I think losing money. Wow. Which isn't great. So again, they do have a point like Virgin is not a super successful hotel when it comes to its casino. But what the union keep pointing at is all these giant corporations, a lot of them. There's a. What it's the Liuna pension fund, one of them in Canada that owns the hotel or is part of the ownership group. And then there's another company called Fengate. So you know, the company points to, you know, we're an off strip property, we can't give you strip pay. And the union's pointing at their management saying, you definitely have the money. If you want to invest in Las Vegas, you have to invest in the workers. And they've consistently said, go back to Canada.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So I just want to be clear, Kyle can't say this and is no way. Offering any opinion on what I'm gonna say, which is solidarity now. Fuck you, virgin. Now, moving on. What else have you seen at the Vegas Related while you've been here?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, so the other major Vegas company I was looking at was a robotics company that's been here for a while. That's rich tech.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, tell me about them.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So they work on a couple different things. So you have, like, this Atom. It's called Atom. It's a bartender robot. And when I was at the booth for ces, it was kind of interesting because I didn't see demos of the robot making drinks, but it was.

[Robert Evans]

It was a bartender.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, it's like a bartender robot. So it has two arms. It can do everything. And the thing that surprised me was, like, the main thing that brought people over to the booth was when the robot was dancing to Apatu by Bruno Mars.

[Robert Evans]

And I think Rosemary, I'm not familiar. I haven't listened to a song since 2007.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Your view is.

[Ed Zitron]

It is funny that they had the robot bartender not making drinks, but it.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Was, like, it might have been at some point, but when I was there, it wasn't.

[Ed Zitron]

It was consoling another robot then. Right?

[Robert Evans]

You are better than her, right?

[Ed Zitron]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

The stripper loves you.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, God.

[Robert Evans]

Go back to Hustler.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So, but the thing, it was interesting because it was drawing a crowd by its little dance with the music, and I was talking to someone with the company, and they were like, you know, the show of it, the spectacle. I asked, like, you know, at what point do we get past spectacle and into just being there? And he's like, spectacle's part of the cell.

[Robert Evans]

This is Vegas.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You say the quiet spectacle is part of the cell.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

That's also CES too, though, right?

[Robert Evans]

Like, it seems like Vegas is honest about it.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And then they had another system that was a lot more utilitarian. You also, by the way, can find some of their robots at all the Boyd Gaming, or not all of them, but.

[Robert Evans]

What are the Boyd Gaming?

[Ed Zitron]

That's like the off Strip, that Sam's Town and those ones.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

Somebody was telling me about there was.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's at the Orleans Aliante. I might be pronouncing that wrong. Sorry, I'm new here. And Suncoast.

[Robert Evans]

Cool.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So they'll have delivery robots delivering food, and then this other robot, Skylark. And that's more like getting a robot to clean floors and make deliveries and stuff like that. And so, I mean, like, all things. One of the main things preventing it from mass Adoption is price. What was it? They used to have a lot of the routes used to be like, you just. It's like. I think it was like, $180,000, but now they're working off more of like a subscription model.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, baby.

[Ed Zitron]

Much of that.

[Gare Davis]

Many such cases.

[Robert Evans]

What can this robot do? Exactly.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So you have the bartender robot, which is. I have the prices. Can it tend bar, like, clean?

[Robert Evans]

I mean, like, actually serve drinks reliably? How does it accept the drink order? Yeah, I'm not sure about Aware of how drinks are.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm not sure.

[Robert Evans]

I know he's doing, like, the drink.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Miming, make a little hand motion.

[Gare Davis]

But he also probably.

[Robert Evans]

Does it also come with, like, an inventory system? Yeah. Like, how does it know?

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm not sure exactly how its inventory system works, but I know for like, Tipsy Robot, which is kind of like the other. That's actually at the Venetian.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

There's one downstairs, and that has, like.

[Kyle Chouinard]

That's like a point of the point of sale system where you just kind of like, tap on a tablet and it gives you the drink. So I imagine it would be something similar to that. I'm not positive, but I imagine it's probably a similar system to Tipsy Robot.

[Robert Evans]

Cause it feels like it's probably not.

[Gare Davis]

Too hard for them to be like.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, as long as we catalog and keep every single drink in a certain place.

[Gare Davis]

And maybe if you make a request.

[Robert Evans]

That'S outside the bounds of the inventory, then it says, do you mean. Would you rather I feel bad about these, though? Because there are two cities that have my heart. New York and Las Vegas.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Those are my favorite.

[Robert Evans]

I got here in a weird way. And I will probably leave here in a weirder way. But the thing is, the bartenders here are fascinating.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

They're fun to talk to.

[Robert Evans]

I don't want a robot replacing them, because first of all, I don't believe the robot will do as good a job. But also, that was not me coughing for any ironic reason. I really was just coughing. The bartenders here rock. But also, like, the accumulated experience of witnessing Vegas is what makes a bartender marvelous.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's all about people watching.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But also people experiencing.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

This kind of comes back to another one of the things that we kind of keep bumping up against with going down there is this idea that somehow the important thing. I understand it from a business perspective, but from any other perspective, the idea that you want to remove human interaction from every process and every transaction.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The thing. I keep saying this. I asked them about that and both this company and I think Automaton also said this. They don't want to replace humans. They want them to work alongside them.

[Robert Evans]

They want to augment them.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The phrase I was told was cobot.

[Robert Evans]

Well, that is a little parallel plan. What is that?

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's cobot. So instead of it being a robot replacing you, it's one you work with that is loathsome.

[Robert Evans]

Well, I don't like the idea of, like, unless the robot is, like, doing annoying things. You don't want a robot understudy. Yeah.

[Gare Davis]

What if.

[Ed Zitron]

No, what if it just. What if it just sat on your arm and looked at you and blinked something?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Was that the pet? Yeah. Yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

We've heard good things, weirdly, like previous episodes, but, yeah, they're kind of like, Look, I don't. I was not initially that into the idea, but it's very. It's very large eyes, like people, really.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I have my cat, and I love my cat.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, right. I was gonna say a lot of people are living things, but, yeah, that. The cobot thing, I just also.

[Robert Evans]

It sounds like something said by someone who has not worked a job in a while.

[Ed Zitron]

It also sounds like the Hyperloop shit, where it's basically, it takes two people to get two people into a car that then takes them someplace it's not.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And then you had the ProPublica story that came out this week about. Which was about Elon.

[Ed Zitron]

What about him? Did he do something bad? Don't tell me if he did something fucked up.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Elon, do something against label rights.

[Robert Evans]

No.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Let me.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yes.

[Ed Zitron]

I got to ride the. When I went over to the convention center yesterday, and it was fully the dumbest shit I've ever done in my life. I really loved it. I thought it was amazing. Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I need to give this a proper read, but ProPublica published a piece called, Elon Musk's Boring Company Is Tunneling Beneath Las Vegas with Little Oversight.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, really? Well, I'm sure they're probably doing a good job.

[Robert Evans]

That's the weird thing, though. It's like this city seemed more resistant to that kind of stuff. Are they just letting him dig tunnels? Cause it gives them money.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Well, I mean, I have not covered this enough to answer that. Sorry.

[Robert Evans]

I must be clear. I'm not holding you to account here. You didn't do the reporting, but it's just like. It feels like such an aberration. Because one of the things that destroys people about Vegas is that everything is convenient at all times.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Everything's 15 minutes exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Thank God. Damn. It so good to have real resident here, which is great.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I've been here for five months.

[Robert Evans]

I've been here three years, baby. And you know it better than anyone. And it's like, wow, I can have Diet Coke whenever I need to. The problem is there are people who have other kinds of Coke they can get in 15 minutes and then they can. Then there are other proclivities they can fuel in 15 minutes.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Diet Coke.

[Ed Zitron]

Is this what they mean by 15 minute cities when you hear that phrase? That's what it is, right? Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Except in Saudi Arabia.

[Ed Zitron]

It's a starter play.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's a 15 minute city run by cars.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Kyle Chouinard]

That's really weird.

[Robert Evans]

I'm so glad you're on the last episode. This is valuable information about Vegas. The thing is the result of every proclivity. Jesus Christ. Being available at all times is that Vegas is just like, nah, man. I understand you got this new tech and you're very horny and you raised all this money, like very exciting. However, you're between the beautiful slot machines and our beautiful customers who are anyone who is here and they ain't going to Prim.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So yeah, Prim had a pretty bad. I believe they had a pretty bad gaming report come out recently.

[Robert Evans]

And by the way, if they ever find a way to get people quicker to Primm $100 billion industry. I'm just giving people ideas. Primm is a city that is far further than it looks.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, it's Nevada. Neom. You guys did one of those. That's cool.

[Robert Evans]

No. Yes. In the sense that there is a strange authority with money that has created the city prince from Qatar.

[Gare Davis]

You know, he's also mesquite.

[Ed Zitron]

He's ambitious.

[Robert Evans]

It's a str. But I don't have enough Prim exp to really. Yeah. Should do some shrooms and go into the cities. Robert, Go to the gas station. Let's find Silicon Valley's El Dorado.

[Ed Zitron]

Let's go.

[Robert Evans]

But the larger point is that Vegas is intolerant of things. Not because of good or bad, but because of efficiency.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh yeah. It's all about efficiency.

[Robert Evans]

And that's the weird thing. CES exists in this very inefficient way here. And it's just Vegas is like, I'll take a little.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Well, yeah, I mean it might be inefficient for the tech industry, but it's a great money maker for the city.

[Gare Davis]

I can only imagine myself.

[Robert Evans]

Which is a great description of Vegas. I mean this may destroy you, but.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It might not be great for you know, there's AI being put into everything, all that stuff. But I mean, look, it's a very large conference that the city makes good money off of. And we just had a recent F1 report or recent November gaming revenue report, and F1 not performing the way people want it to. So, I mean, these conventions are in. I mean, they keep the city afloat. Especially, I mean, when people couldn't travel here in 2020. I mean, I wasn't here, but I was thinking about it. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Then, you know, strange.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I mean, it was also.

[Robert Evans]

The depression here was.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It was terrible.

[Robert Evans]

Like, this is a working class city. And when you think about ces, a lot of engineers and such, Vegas is a place which is very working class. And the effects of these conferences are quite pronounced.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. And it's important. It's important for the city.

[Robert Evans]

So very meaningful ending for a third of the episode there. Mr. David Roth, where can people find you?

[Ed Zitron]

Defector.com, the website, and I do the distraction podcast there.

[Robert Evans]

Well, you're on. Okay, well, just moved past that because you messed up the order there.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, I did. I'm sorry.

[Robert Evans]

No, no, no, no. It's gone.

[Ed Zitron]

I don't get any second shot at this.

[Robert Evans]

Where can people find.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, take it over.

[Robert Evans]

I am still doing.

[Ed Zitron]

Not a podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Got it.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm still on X. Believe it or not, I told the Everything app.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, I'm on there too. But I only. Only for banking. I don't really use it for social networks.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I use it. I put my CAT scans in there.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, right.

[Kyle Chouinard]

See what Grok tells me about.

[Ed Zitron]

It's like, lol, you have disease.

[Robert Evans]

Your discs are very chuk.

[Ed Zitron]

You get the Elon butthead laugh. When it uploads successfully, it's like you're like, cool. It's processing.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, Kyle, where can people actually find you?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Kylechinard C H O U I N A R D and then the lasvegasun.com.

[Robert Evans]

Or just lasvegasun.com Edongueso Junior I am on Twitter and BlueSky, the foreign agent registry at Big Flat Jacobin. I won't say for which country, but you can guess. For my newsletter, it's thetechbubble.substack.com and for my podcast, this Machine Kills. You can find me at wheresyourhead@ for my newsletter. And the podcast is called Better Offline. And you're thinking, this seems way too honest for Ed. What's he gonna do to me next? And the answer is nothing. This is a clean break. We're about to Go to some advertisements and you're gonna listen to them intently or else you are committing crimes against me. And I know you love the crimes you do on this show. You love to fill up the Reddit something that will be called Exhibit A through Z. And I regret the crime jokes, but I'm not going to stop them anyway. The following ads Very legitimate companies or podcasts. You're going to listen to them, download them, and I won't feel any pain.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Buy their products.

[Ed Zitron]

Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered who or what was flying around up there? We've seen planes, helicopters, hot air balloons and birds. But what if there's something else, something much more ominous that appears under the COVID of night? Silent, unseen, watching. They may be right above your car late one night as you cruise down the road, or look like mysterious lights hovering above your home. Drones. Or are they? We used the word drone because it was comfortable to other people. One minute was there and one minute it wasn't. Oh, that is beyond creepy. Do you feel like this drone was targeting you specifically?

[Robert Evans]

Yes, absolutely. Listen to Obscurum. Invasion of the Drones on the iHeartRadio.

[Ed Zitron]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to understand an invisible.

[Robert Evans]

Force that's shaping your life?

[Ed Zitron]

I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Robert Evans]

And often on Tech Stuff. We travel all the way from the minds of Congo to the surface of.

[Ed Zitron]

Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Robert Evans]

One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality. How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Ed Zitron]

So join us, listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

[Robert Evans]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Zitron]

How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. 1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart Podcaster, it requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy Podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning.

[Robert Evans]

Through them and their new perspective.

[Ed Zitron]

Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Whoa.

[Gare Davis]

My lights in my living room just flickered.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm a little nervous. I'm excited. I'm excited nervous. You know, I'm very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Robert Evans]

That was amazing.

[Ed Zitron]

I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a.

[Robert Evans]

Lot of really good advice that I'm.

[Ed Zitron]

Going to have to really think about. Wow.

[Gare Davis]

Okay.

[Ed Zitron]

That's crazy.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yes, that is accurate.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as.

[Ed Zitron]

Part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gare Davis]

Hey, this is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Winner and six time Ladies European Tour winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host. You forgot to say all my Miss.

[Gare Davis]

America, by the way.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira.

[Ed Zitron]

We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps.

[Robert Evans]

And interviews with incredible people who have.

[Ed Zitron]

Figured out how to make golf.

[Kyle Chouinard]

There's superpower or just people we like, plus tales from the road and everything in between.

[Gare Davis]

By the way, golf isn't just for.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The dads, brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code.

[Ed Zitron]

And we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle Lee, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.

[Gare Davis]

So if you want to keep up.

[Kyle Chouinard]

With us, and here is yap, Tune into our new podcast, listen to Quiet.

[Ed Zitron]

Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Women'S sports production in partnership with Deep.

[Ed Zitron]

Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Robert Evans]

And we're back. So we have replaced David Roth using science with Gare Davis. You are here for me. It could happen. Here I am the Cool Zone Media product. We're. We're colleagues. How are you doing?

[Gare Davis]

I'm so tired. I've walked so many steps this week.

[Robert Evans]

I feel like I have new energy. That's the problem. I'm going into the last day with more energy than I had when I arrived.

[Gare Davis]

That's another CES miracle.

[Robert Evans]

It's beautiful. Carl Chouinard from the Las Vegas Sun.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Hi there.

[Robert Evans]

And of course, Edward Ongueso Jr. Hello. That's really bad. Gare. Kyle, you were at the same panel. Tell me about this panel.

[Gare Davis]

So it was this panel done by a number of tech companies. Adobe had a spokesperson there, as well as one of the DHS science and technology representatives. It was ostensibly about, like, deep fakes AI generated, like information and disinformation and misinformation. And I've been to a lot of these panels over the years. I went to one last year at CES put on by Deloitte that was actually okay. And then I went to a few at, at the RNC earlier last year.

[Robert Evans]

Right. And that's the Republican National Convention.

[Gare Davis]

Correct? Correct. So, you know, it's a good, good, good panel for journalists to go to. Speaking of, speaking of disinformation. But yeah, I. This was on Thursday that we were, we walked into the lvcc, went to this panel and it was one, one person in front of me did fall asleep.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I thought it was.

[Robert Evans]

What was the panel about?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Also it was about misinformation, disinformation and deepfakes. And I think if you didn't know much about it, it probably could be a little helpful. But for I think a CES audience, maybe not as much.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was talking about, you know, various, various tools to identify like, AI generated or deep faked information or pictures, videos, and a whole bunch of the previous visual tactics a few years ago. It's pretty easy to spot an AI image. It's maybe slightly harder now. It depends on the model. But with how fast that is developing, especially for stills, it's going beyond visual detection. You have to actually create tools to detect this. And those tools can also be prone to false positives and false negatives. There's another technology that a whole bunch of companies like Microsoft making a big push for it, as well as Adobe. It's kind of like a build in systems for when you generate AI content that clearly identifies it as such in the metadata. And that's something I heard a lot about last year and they talked about it here. I think they called it Providence.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Providence, yeah. Providence was the word of the day.

[Gare Davis]

Yes, that was the word that they used was these. Providence Systems, as opposed to detection systems, which is post hoc. We will use that against suspected AI content that was maybe not generated with this built in information.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So how was the panel though? Was it useful? Like, did it make profound statements or was this more CES slop?

[Kyle Chouinard]

I mean, I wouldn't call it CES.

[Robert Evans]

Slop because there is the ones where you just sit there for half an hour and go like, ah, well, that was half an hour. I could be doing something else.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I mean, it was good for learning the basics. And they talked about how, like you mentioned, it was a lot easier to detect things a while ago. One thing I wish they, and this is not really your question, but one thing I wish they did talk about was just how text based. A lot of this AI misinformation is a lot of the misinformation that gets published. I mean, if you go on X, the Everything app, as I do for my banking, of course, I mean, I go into. I can't even read the comments anymore because I have to scroll through a billion blue checks. And so many of them are just like, obviously AI generated based off analyzing the image and then writing the most basic comment possible. So I wish there was a little more focus on that if you want to.

[Gare Davis]

No, sure. I mean, like that is, that is a massive section of it. And this is something even I asked a question about at the Republican National Convention at Microsoft's panel, being like, you have all these tools for like AI images, right? You know, images of politicians and in debaucherous acts, you know, all these sorts of things. But they also advertise AI's ability to make specifically specific user specific political press releases. Basically, a campaign can send an email based on a voter's profile that can be tailored using AI to specific voters. What could go wrong with that?

[Robert Evans]

What do you mean creating data to specifically push voters in one direction?

[Gare Davis]

Well, yes, but like, you know, they never do that. If you're working for a campaign and you want to target specific voters, you can analyze their social media presence, you know, whatever kind of information about them is in certain data sets that can be bought and make an AI written press release specifically for them. And this is something I also asked a question about. You're talking about these AI metadata watermarks for images, but what about for text? How will I be able to know if an email I'm getting from a politician was written by a person or written by a robot? They're like, well, you can't. We simply aren't gonna worry about that. And like I mean, I walked up.

[Kyle Chouinard]

To y'all afterwards and I was like, I guess the lesson is that we're all screwed.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, we all are screwed.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I mean, that was the main takeaway.

[Gare Davis]

That was what the DHS was saying.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Which I was like, maybe. Oh, God. That was the main takeaway I had. Was everyone pretty much saying, like, this is going to get worse and it's an arms. And like all this stuff.

[Gare Davis]

It is an arms race and it is. And like, you know, they. They gestured towards, you know, quote unquote, bad guys or like, you know, foreign state actors. Specifically Iran does, you know, a lot of work on this Russia, but, you know, I think in some ways the focus on those two might be kind of lifted as the new. As the new administration focuses more on China, but specifically for like, for like just disinformation using AI tools. Iran and Russia, like the past year has been like the main players targeting US voters.

[Robert Evans]

It is so wild. We just. This is a real dumb guy statement. Do we just have other countries who are just fucking with the US citizenry and it's just like a thing that happens?

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah, it's a huge. It's like a. It's a.

[Robert Evans]

But it's a huge project. An act of war.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's an extension of like Cold War stuff.

[Ed Zitron]

Right?

[Gare Davis]

Like, it's.

[Robert Evans]

So we just have wars that are like, not really.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, I'm also describing how colonial Britain worked by paying people not to, like, teach people to write. So I realize I'm like the Bill Belichick of atrocities here, but it's just very frustrating to hear this stuff and not really know what to do about it because it could happen here does amazing work on disinformation for something to do about it as like a person. Okay.

[Gare Davis]

No, but, you know. No.

[Robert Evans]

Okay.

[Gare Davis]

You know, it is a huge problem and there really isn't much to do. Realistic. Like, we have tried to make fact checking work the past few years and I don't think Americans are that much better at identifying false or genuine information. Like, fact checking has kind of failed as a. As like a large. It's a large project.

[Robert Evans]

It's not a good. I almost feel like what they actually need is vibe checkers.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I mean, they need someone who cheats. No, but it's.

[Robert Evans]

Why do I feel bad looking at this? What I'm saying is everyone needs therapy. Jesus Christ. And astrologers and psych.

[Gare Davis]

State mandated therapy is the solution here. Yeah, definitely.

[Robert Evans]

A state mandated vibe checker. Chat. Is this real?

[Gare Davis]

I would apply to be Trump's vibe checker.

[Robert Evans]

What do you think about this? It's not giving me good. It's not giving me good vibes.

[Gare Davis]

Giving me the ick. It's big ick.

[Robert Evans]

Don't make it. Don't read the end of Jujutsu Kaisen. It's a very disappointing manga. Very unfair. The end of Demon Slayer. Far better. My academia, similar terrible ending. They took out the US superhero. Only JoJo's bizarre adventure is holding up to me. It was normal.

[Gare Davis]

I didn't know both of you were Weebs. This is interesting.

[Ed Zitron]

I am Weebly. I am a. I appreciate other cultures.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, I don't give a shit. I'm a huge Weeb.

[Gare Davis]

Do you know what I'm wearing?

[Robert Evans]

I was wondering if that was a reference.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You look like you might explain this.

[Robert Evans]

One gab, because I actually don't. No, I'm gonna guess. No. No, it's like anti. Anti. Was it that one?

[Ed Zitron]

No.

[Kyle Chouinard]

There's no Chainsaw man, right?

[Gare Davis]

No, no.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, I thought you were one of those.

[Robert Evans]

It's one of the club ones.

[Gare Davis]

Orin High school host.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Club host.

[Robert Evans]

Club ones.

[Gare Davis]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Just to be clear, Gae is the best dressed to of any of us. And also fucking rocking. Like an actual manga related outfit. And nailing it.

[Gare Davis]

I spent a lot of money on this, as you should have. It looks great. I found a very nice blue blazer that I defaced by putting on the Orin patch.

[Robert Evans]

No, this is good. This is good. I've been admiring your fits. I feel like back home I'm usually the best dress. I'm about to say dressed best. Jim really is great.

[Gare Davis]

Your pants are fantastic.

[Robert Evans]

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. But no one's saying anything about me.

[Gare Davis]

You leather jacket's good. The boots are good.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you. Personally, I think you should have gone with the aviator shades.

[Gare Davis]

Personally, I think you should have gone with the shade.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm here to interview you.

[Gare Davis]

I would love not care swisher, but I was talking about this with with my boss, Robert Evans last night. We should bring the menswear guy here one year and have him walk around ces. Oh my gosh.

[Robert Evans]

You have anticipated my dynamic on Ed.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, that's such a good.

[Robert Evans]

He's also not cheap. Oh, no, no. He want. He. No. Derek guy is a legend.

[Gare Davis]

I love him.

[Robert Evans]

And he also knows what he's worth and should.

[Gare Davis]

He should.

[Robert Evans]

This is a pro labor podcast. Is that his name? Derek Guy is so funny to be like the menswear Guy. And your second name is Guy.

[Gare Davis]

Very, very cool.

[Ed Zitron]

It works out.

[Robert Evans]

He nailed it.

[Gare Davis]

No, I would. I would love for him to walk around the show floor. I think it could do some real psychic damage.

[Robert Evans]

As long as he doesn't rate my face, I never want him to put his eye of Sauron on me.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm terrified.

[Robert Evans]

I say this with my not quite parasocial, but here's my Derek Guy story. So I lost a lot of weight this year. And this is not me trying to actually conjure up people saying anything. I'm fine. What I'm saying is I lost all the weight and I bought a bunch of clothes and I took a picture. I'm like, I still feel like shit. So I emailed Derek Guy, as one normally does in tears, and I was like, why do I feel bad still? Because I was like, you know what? If he doesn't respond, he doesn't respond.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But if he does, he can help me deal with something like an emotional thing where I'm like, I feel better about my body, but I don't like what's on it. And he was like, you have no aesthetic. And he explained the concept of aesthetics.

[Kyle Chouinard]

He responded, yeah, no, Derek's amazing.

[Robert Evans]

Okay? He's like the Chomsky of fashion. He's super cool. He's so chill. The Dick Monfort for this, for the rocket. I'm gonna shoot him an email.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Chomsky's still responding.

[Robert Evans]

Well, the reason he does this is kind of what I was addressing with Gare, which is he isn't there to 86 people. He's there to try and explain what looks and feels good. And he talks about clothing as social language. And he said, you have no aesthetic. You're wearing, like trainers with, like a thread belt. My shit was busted. I look terrible because of the clothes, not because of me. I would actually love him to do that, but also walk around being like, this shit looks fucking good. Because I feel like. And with this show, especially if you are just a hater while loving nothing. No, you're. You're just vacuous.

[Gare Davis]

Occasionally you see a very well dressed Asian businessman.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Fucking rocks. And they.

[Gare Davis]

And then you see a lot of. A lot of Asian. A lot of Asian businessmen in very ill fitting suits. But occasionally you'll see one guy who has that shit on. Yes, I did see someone who had that shit on.

[Robert Evans]

And they were like, looking at other people's fits with disgust. Hell, yeah.

[Gare Davis]

That's what I've been doing all week, baby.

[Robert Evans]

Fashion pedants. I really just should have gone up to him and talked to him. Yeah. You have notes about the convention we're at.

[Gare Davis]

This is my actual job.

[Robert Evans]

Okay. Yeah, I forgot why we're here. We're just, you know, yapping.

[Kyle Chouinard]

There's a tech conference.

[Robert Evans]

The yap index is over 5,000 right now. But please bring us back to why we're actually meant well.

[Gare Davis]

So I guess one thing I was spending almost all of yesterday doing as we've been inundated with these AI products, is learning about all of the AI products targeting your offspring, your kids who are being raised now with AI the same way my generation was raised with social media, not a son of mine.

[Robert Evans]

This is like cocomelon shit where it's like put this in front of your kid or it's like device like consumer.

[Gare Davis]

Products for the anxious parent. You know, both these things kind of overlap. The first thing I did yesterday morning was attend a panel called Raising AI Kids responsibly. Great title because this could either mean you're making an AI child that you get to raise, or it's about how do you raise kids in the world at AI now. It was the latter. I kind of wanted the former.

[Robert Evans]

I hate all of was bad.

[Gare Davis]

In some ways. It was bad and you know, a little bit cringe. But there's also some interesting, you know, stuff said here. There was two products that were, that were displayed. One of them was from this company called Readyland, who I believe partners with Amazon. It's basically like it's an AI storybook that interacts with an Alexa machine. Now one thing about them that I think is actually really cool, good, they don't generate any new AI content. It's just using AI to stitch together basically kind of a choose your own adventure book. But for kids to have a physical book that they read with the Alexa machine that then can make them talk to characters, change the story in different directions. But all the content is pre baked. It just gets assembled in different ways.

[Robert Evans]

Just one idea. As a father of a son, son of a mother, a brother of a sister, you can do this thing when you're reading to your child where you can think of something.

[Gare Davis]

I understand and talk. This is what my parents did to me and imagination. This is what I was thinking about like in the panel, like yes, this is, this is cool. You know, it's safer than a whole bunch of the other other stuff I'm seeing. But how this kind of steals away the joy of reading to your kid.

[Robert Evans]

And also listening to their dimensions. Little minds come up with Extra extension when my little brother was growing up. You just don't realize how batshit a child is until they grow up. So I avoid talking about my son in general. I won't name him because I believe he should have his own destiny. But one of the most wonderful parts of being a father is having my son come and talk to me about something he just thought up and it will be something Minecraft related and he will explain something I did not know about Minecraft. And he will like, he will explain something in such detail that I've never even considered in my life. And it's something quite simple. But it's because he's been allowed to go off in these directions with no.

[Gare Davis]

Prompting, with no yeah, no, totally.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I mean my.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it's like the idea of depriving children of this makes me so fucking angry.

[Gare Davis]

Especially when it's targeting like 5 year olds, which is like where it gets more upsetting to me.

[Robert Evans]

And taking the fucking parenting thing of having an imagination about what your child could be is so fucking sickening. I'm getting angry.

[Gare Davis]

This is now, unfortunately, I actually felt relatively better about this product. So it's basically kind of just like, it's kind of just a visual. It's kind of just like a visual novel, you know, like, like those, like those visual novel games. But you have, but you have a physical book that you're reading now. Compared to the other product called Poe the AI Teddy, which I also saw.

[Robert Evans]

Edgar Allan Poe, the classic happy guy.

[Gare Davis]

It is so much worse. It is what it sounds like. It's a teddy bear that comes with an app where you can put in certain parameters for like I want the story starring this character with this archetype as the villain in this setting. And it'll generate an AI story for your child, generating new content. So unlike Story Land or unlike Readyland, Poe the AI Bear is actually generating live content unreviewed by moderators, just straight to. It's $50 on Amazon. You can order this thing right now and talk to it.

[Robert Evans]

He the guy putting my tongue in my cheek when I do what I'm pissed off about. Like, I'm like, where's this guy going to hang out later?

[Gare Davis]

You're low key tweaking right now.

[Robert Evans]

I'm like.

[Gare Davis]

Names places he did talk about. He's like, you know, like ChatGPT does, does have guardrails for content but. But those guardrails, you know, don't always reliably work. But they than nothing and content moderation is an issue that we're working on. I'm like, yeah, but your product has hit the market.

[Robert Evans]

Like you are selling an issue.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, we're working on. Moderation isn't a great answer.

[Gare Davis]

No, not a good answer. And this is something like even, even the other guy with like the AI storybook mentioned, he's like, it's pretty easy to make like your AI kid's toy, not say swear words or even talk about sex or drugs. But one thing that's even harder to moderate is like, like, what if it's, what if it says like inaccurate or, or actually like, like, like, like dangerous information? You know, like, what if it starts. What if it goes in a really weird direction and starts like, and starts like talking about stare at the sun so that.

[Ed Zitron]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Generative AI models, they don't even understand how the training data truly interacts with the system.

[Gare Davis]

Totally.

[Robert Evans]

They don't know how this truly works. The only useful thing in quantum computing related to AI right now is the fact that they can actually have more that can discern what their training data does. So the idea of my child interacting with one of these, I realize now, like, nothing actually makes me angry other than harms to my child, at which point I might actually go falling down mode.

[Gare Davis]

Such a good movie too.

[Robert Evans]

It's such a great movie.

[Gare Davis]

Such a good movie. Now the last thing about this panel is that it actually opened with this person from the company Aido, Aido Play Lab Partnerships, who was the first company to partner with Sesame Workshop to make, to make apps for kids. So I'm like, this is interesting. Like Sesame Workshop usually I consider being like pretty, pretty thoughtful in how they produce media for kids and like, if they're choosing to partner with this company, maybe I'll listen to what they say. And they didn't have anything to sell. They just had data that they've been collecting on how Gen Z thinks about AI. This thing that's becoming increasingly invasive in our lives, like, how do we think about it and what do we really want out of it? And some of the way this lady presented stuff was a little bit odd. She kind of presented all of, all of the data findings as like shocking surprises, which I think may have been tailored for the CES audience. Sure.

[Robert Evans]

But also I feel like more attention to the details isn't bad.

[Gare Davis]

Sure. And like this is what she said her, her data like showed and you can look this stuff up on their website. The main question she asked is what if the tech savvy generation Gen Z isn't Buying what we're selling anymore.

[Robert Evans]

Fucking hell. Imagine a customer doesn't want the thing you're building.

[Gare Davis]

She said, like, you know, Gen Z is typically seen as early as, like, early adopters, early users, and they usually are, but they also come with the most amount of informed opinions about how badly the tech feels, how cringy it is to use, and how it affects their sense of human.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So the issue is that they know what's up.

[Gare Davis]

They know what's up, which was, you.

[Robert Evans]

Know, that's a vibe, if you're in.

[Gare Davis]

Businesses, is like a. Is either a hurdle to overcome or some insights to help you, you know, maybe. Maybe pivot or change in a completely different direction. She identified, like, the key areas of tension around AI for Gen Z is one creative expression, you know, its ability to, you know, have us feel proud of the art that we make and how it affects human relationships. And she brought up a few questions or, like, examples of the types of stuff that she's asking people as a part of this data collection. Let's say you've had a friend breakup. Would you rather an AI tool kind of counsel you through that process, bounce ideas off and try to move on or figure out what happened? Or do you want a temporary friend replacement? Do you want the AI to become a friend for you instead? Would you rather that be your friend for the time being? And, like, no, we actually don't want AI friends. That's not what we want.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Which is a lot of stuff at CES this year. It feels like a lot of AI friends.

[Gare Davis]

So much of AI this year is about replacing human friendship.

[Robert Evans]

And it's so fucked up.

[Gare Davis]

To preserve human friendship.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Right, sorry.

[Robert Evans]

It's fucked up because the idea of tech at least 10 years ago was that it would bring us closer together and would allow for deeper connections. Now it's like, buddy, like. Yeah, about that. You want to connect with the computer. I mean, this is what happens when. I mean, all these, you know, this is what happens when everyone starts reading Marcus Aurelius a little too closely. So true. I don't know that reference. I. I am an idiot. People need to stop quoting books to me. I think it's good that you don't know. Is that the guy from Gladiator?

[Gare Davis]

Yes. Yes, Ed.

[Ed Zitron]

He is an idiot. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Actually, Russell Crowe did say one of the funniest things on Twitter, which is he responded to one of the CNN reports, I believe, at the time, and he was just like, blocked plonker. Which is one of the funniest things to say anyway. Let's just ignore my.

[Gare Davis]

This was the same thing that she was talking about is like, you know, this thing where what we're all seeing is, like, these AI products designed to replace the role of human friendship. And another thing she presented as, like, this, like, surprising.

[Robert Evans]

Solving the problem of meeting people.

[Gare Davis]

No, no, it's actually helping you overcome the fact that you, like, lost a friend. It's trying to be like, hey, it's okay if you lost a friend. This AI can be your friend instead.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, sorry. I mean, the solution to, like, this loneliness epidemic, especially young people are going through, I can't imagine, is more robots, you know?

[Gare Davis]

And, yeah, one thing I keep thinking about driving alienation. One of these guys who did.

[Robert Evans]

Who does, like, these companion bot chatbot sites, I think character AI, you're like, oh, okay. Well, you know, you seem in interviews to be earnest about, like, people are lonely. Maybe we can't replace, but we can offer a salve that helps people get back to the point where they have human friendships again.

[Ed Zitron]

What does he believe about people?

[Robert Evans]

And it's just like, let's hang homeless people. You know, let's murder the poor. Like these.

[Gare Davis]

Like this sort of.

[Robert Evans]

It's not a coincidence that someone building that sort of firm has such deeply pathological views. So fucked up as well. Because the idea of an AI you can bounce ideas off of is not inherently a terrible idea. We sit there, we think about shit, and the idea of having a log of it, I. I journal a great deal, and I think many people listening to this do. There's an idea of looking at this, but they're like, yeah, what if your journal was a person?

[Gare Davis]

It gets worse.

[Robert Evans]

Hell, yeah.

[Gare Davis]

The next thing that you use as an example is like, what if there's an AI that's trained on your preferences, trained on your dating preferences? What you like aesthetically?

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Gare Davis]

And what if that could instead go on your first dates for you?

[Robert Evans]

What if what I fucked up on my own?

[Kyle Chouinard]

What if this is literally a Black Mirror episode?

[Gare Davis]

What. What if this could, like, handle, like, icebreaker questions and, like. And, like, get over, like, hard life experiences to make life easier for you?

[Robert Evans]

One of my favorite little perverse things was this. Slavoj Iek once said one time, said he doesn't like sex.

[Gare Davis]

What he would like.

[Robert Evans]

He's just a Slovenian philosopher, psychoanalytic.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Sniffs a lot.

[Robert Evans]

He's, you know. You mean Zizek?

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And he was talking about how the ideal sexual encounter for him is two people taking their sex toys and those sex toys playing with each other.

[Gare Davis]

Exactly. And this is, this is exactly what he's talking about. That's disgusting.

[Robert Evans]

No, the ideal perversion, the pure perversion of that is two people using those sex toys together to get each other off. No, that's great. That's wonderful. That's a good perversion. This is a pro sex podcast. Jesus Christ. The one where you send an avatar.

[Gare Davis]

That is in a different, different room, completely autonomous from. From you as yourself. Evil mark of the beast. And it was odd because, like, this is, this is why what she was saying was so odd because, like, she presented this as like, a surprising revelation that, oh, my God, Gen Z would rather live life themselves than have an AI live your life for you. I just told you that. And like, like, that was what she was trying to say. But it was so odd having that presented like, some, like, surprising, like, expl. Exclusive fact that you can only get through, like, data research. Yeah. And she talked about, like, like there is, like, Gen Z sees value in having, like, bad dates. I hate having discussion. And actually, like, and actually, like, overcoming, like, challenges in life. And like, that's, that's actually a core part of being human. And we don't want that process, like, like, like smoothed over with, like, tech can't solve the hardship of life. The hardship is part of life. That's what makes life, life worth living. And like.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. How old are you?

[Gare Davis]

I'm in my early 20s.

[Robert Evans]

Sorry, I didn't want to get.

[Gare Davis]

No, you're fine.

[Robert Evans]

So you're Gen Z. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you feel about these assumptions?

[Gare Davis]

I mean, like, again, like, this is, these are questions that she's, like, that she's posing to, like, you know, focus groups of, of, of like.

[Robert Evans]

No, but I care more about your opinion.

[Gare Davis]

They're really pandering. They're, they're.

[Robert Evans]

Is it accurate?

[Gare Davis]

Well, no, because they assume such a base level of stupidity that they're like, kind of offensively, like, even like, framed. The fact that I would be like, would you rather have an AI go on dates for you? Like, why. Why would you ever ask me that? That's, that, that's fucking stupid.

[Robert Evans]

Some of the fun parts about romance. Romance, wow, said the word correctly.

[Gare Davis]

Romance.

[Robert Evans]

They're always saying this about me with how words go. Is fucking up about revealing parts of yourself that get banged off someone and.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You feel bad, you learn about yourself.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly.

[Gare Davis]

And that's, and that's what she was saying is like, that's actually what people want. People don't, People don't actually want AI to Live to, like, live your life for you. And she specifically provided a pushback against this, like, idea in the tech industry, where, like, the smoothest possible path is the best one. Right?

[Robert Evans]

This is a good panel.

[Gare Davis]

You want to optimize every part of life. And what if that optimization actually isn't the point? What if this like, idea in the. In the tech industry that we have to optimize and smooth over every hardship misses the entire point of living? And you have all these tech bros being like, oh, yeah, huh. I guess maybe, maybe we shouldn't smooth over all the problems.

[Kyle Chouinard]

It's like, it's a very. Maybe I'm getting this reference wrong. It's a very, like, Patrick Bateman, like, thinking of, like, I am optimizing everything to the T and I will keep it going.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, no, specifically in the book. That is the sort of train of thought he has, as he's kind of emptily engaging with life at the very.

[Gare Davis]

Superficial level while being empty and craving something else. The final point she had is. And again, this is all kind of pandering. You're saying Gen Z, but this is across a lot of people. But she said, like, Gen Z doesn't trust AI to understand the nuance of their lives.

[Robert Evans]

And I, as a millennial, of course, do.

[Gare Davis]

But yes, like, it was not a panel because on one hand you have these AI toys for kids, and then you have this woman with this company that works with Sesame, and she's like, yeah, actually, Gen Z doesn't want AI to run their lives. And you're like, yeah, who could have thought so?

[Robert Evans]

Extensive testing as we approach the final second of the thirds of Better Offline G. Where can people find you?

[Gare Davis]

Well, I am. I am on X, the. The Everything app, where I do my banking at Hungry Bow Tie as well as Blue sky at Hungry Boy thai@@hungrybowtie.social.

[Robert Evans]

And it could happen here.

[Gare Davis]

And. And the podcast with me, Robert Evans, and a few of our other colleagues who recover sometimes tech, but, you know, politics, culture, just disinformation, all that kind of fun stuff that greases the wheels of our society.

[Robert Evans]

Yummy. Kyle.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I can be found on X the Everything Appleschanard and then my writings on lasvegasun.com.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah, and Edward Unguesso Jr. You can. In the real world, I live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Northwest in Washington D.C. zIP code 20500.

[Gare Davis]

That's a nice neighborhood.

[Robert Evans]

It's kind of nice. It's got a great view of everything.

[Gare Davis]

Nice.

[Robert Evans]

What else? I'm @bigblackjacobin on Twitter and bluesky. And this machine kills is my podcast and thetechbubble.substack.com is my newsletter. You are approaching the final third of the final two part episode of the Consumer Electronics show and I just want to say something to you which I'll elongate at the end of this. I'm so grateful for you giving me your patience with this. I will say I need you to listen to the ad. I don't know actually what happens after I'm done talking. I never do. Frankly, I barely understand what I'm doing when I am talking because Matasowski over here heals me. Jesus Christ. I can't even say his. We're keeping it. Matasowski hears me mess up my name, mess up the name of companies, or just mess up a word. But you know, I keep reading because podcasting is in my blood and that's who I am and that's my identity. It's very normal and healthy. Please listen to the ads, please download the podcast, please buy the product. If they don't give me another contract, it's gonna be very bad. My therapist is gonna be mad.

[Ed Zitron]

Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered who or what was flying around up there? We've seen planes, helicopters, hot air balloons and birds. But what if there's something else, something much more ominous that appears under the COVID of night? Silent, unseen, watching. They may be right above your car late when one night, as you cruise down the road, or look like mysterious lights hovering above your home. Drones. Or are they? We used the word drone because it was comfortable to other people. One minute was there and one minute it wasn't. Oh, that is beyond creepy. Do you feel like this drone was targeting you specifically?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, absolutely. Listen to Obscurum Invasion of the Drones.

[Ed Zitron]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Os Velozian, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Robert Evans]

And often on tech stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of.

[Ed Zitron]

Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Robert Evans]

One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a Very rough proxy.

[Gare Davis]

For a complex reality.

[Robert Evans]

How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in.

[Kyle Chouinard]

This place where there's no electricity at night? Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Ed Zitron]

So join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. 1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning.

[Robert Evans]

Through them and their new perspective.

[Ed Zitron]

Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Whoa.

[Gare Davis]

My lights in my living room just flickered.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm a little nervous.

[Ed Zitron]

I'm excited.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I'm excited nervous. You know, I'm a very spiritual person.

[Ed Zitron]

So I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Robert Evans]

That was amazing.

[Ed Zitron]

I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a.

[Robert Evans]

Lot of really good advice that I'm.

[Ed Zitron]

Gonna have to really think about. Wow. Okay, that's crazy.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yes, that is accurate.

[Robert Evans]

Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as.

[Ed Zitron]

Part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Or wherever you get your podcast podcasts.

[Gare Davis]

Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA Tour.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Winner and six time ladies European Tour winner.

[Ed Zitron]

And Kira K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You forgot to say warmer.

[Ed Zitron]

Miss America, by the way.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please.

[Ed Zitron]

With Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps.

[Robert Evans]

And interviews with incredible people who have.

[Ed Zitron]

Figured out how to make golf their.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between.

[Gare Davis]

By the way, golf isn't just for.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The dads, brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and.

[Ed Zitron]

We'Re not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.

[Gare Davis]

So if you want to keep up.

[Kyle Chouinard]

With us, and here is yap, Tune into our new podcast, Listen to Quiet.

[Ed Zitron]

Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Women'S sports production in partnership with Deep.

[Ed Zitron]

Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Robert Evans]

So we enter the end of the truly unified end of the Better Offline podcast this incredible week. And I'm not even gonna do any, like, sardonic shit. I'm just so happy. I'm surrounded by people who are super game to make podcasts to, like. I'm like, genuinely, like, near tears of how happy I everyone being game for this. Everyone has been so amazing. All the journalists who have joined us. It's just been the best fucking week of a week. That is generally quite depressing. Also feels like a good point to admit. Two things. One, I watched Neogenesis, Evangelion.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, great.

[Robert Evans]

And I was a teenager and I did not understand the subtext.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So the whole time for most of my life was watching this show. I'm being like, damn, these robots are fucking cool. And then, like, some weird shit happened, I guess. I'm like, okay, but, okay, the robots are back.

[Ed Zitron]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

There's, like, some stuff from space and there's a big head. Kind of fucking weird, I guess. Anyway, welcome to Better Offline. I'm Ed Zitron. We are joined by everyone. We're joined by Robert Evans of Cool Zone Media.

[Ed Zitron]

That's right, David J. Roth, who is.

[Robert Evans]

Going to have to grab the mic.

[Ed Zitron]

Hello.

[Robert Evans]

Of defector. Edward Ongueso Jr. Of course, will now have. Have to turn another mic. Kyle Chouinard of the Las Vegas Sun. Hello. And Gare Davis of It Could Happen Here. Cool Zone Media and associated Properties.

[Gare Davis]

Hello, Hello, Hello.

[Robert Evans]

We're at the end of ces. We have one more positive masculinity day coming after this. But this is really the closeout as all of us just slop ourselves into the remaining quarters of this convention center. I could not have had more fun if I tried, but next year I'll try. Robert, how has the show been? How would you summarize the show?

[Ed Zitron]

It was great. I mean, obviously AI is here to stay. This is the worst it's ever gonna be. Everything's. Thank you. Only gonna get better. And thank God, you know, there's this little kid that I helped take care of and it takes a lot of time as you know, as a father, Ed, A lot of time and a lot of effort to raise a child. And I'm just excited that TCL has a solution to we can do. It's what I've always dreamed which is that you keep like a hamster like feeder in a water. Like you just hook up a hose to the room and you lock the child in with a robot until they're 18 or 20.

[Gare Davis]

Like the room.

[Ed Zitron]

Like the room. Exactly. Yeah. It's perfect. You know, as long as you get like one of those lights that gives you some sun kind of effect, you know they won't die probably like. And that's ideal.

[Gare Davis]

Have you introduced this product yet? Because I didn't talk to.

[Ed Zitron]

Well introduced. Oh wait, no, no, we have not.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, we're just into the disparagement part of the show then.

[Ed Zitron]

No, I'll move on. No, I mean this is in the. We had talked about how like cute little guys are part of the. Like that's again enough about me. But that like this. The TCL is the most. I looked at this also and they have like a whole little video of like a tow headed child interacting with this thing. And his parents, the kids parents are kind of like standing on off to the side. Be like super, let's.

[Robert Evans]

I'm calling my mom.

[Ed Zitron]

You wanna like go to the movies or whatever. But it's the most. It's probably the cutest of the cute little guys. But then also easily the most sinister. Yeah, it's the most sinister. Well, and you say towheaded. I had a disagreement with Garrison, so I'm wondering how you thought. Cause I felt like they cast that child because it looked like he had leukemia.

[Gare Davis]

It definitely.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, I don't wanna say anything bad about the kid. Right. I don't know if that's kid.

[Gare Davis]

He did that thing wrong.

[Ed Zitron]

Yes. What he looked like was honestly the scenario you described, which is basically like we're growing a child the way that people grow mushrooms in their house.

[Gare Davis]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

We're growing like a Bennett side.

[Robert Evans]

Oh my fucking God.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. Huge bags under his eyes. Never seen the kiss of the sun. Or his mom.

[Robert Evans]

You do not know what vitamin C is, little boy. But don't worry. Or D D. Well, I'm British.

[Ed Zitron]

The first robot specifically for that. Look, the way the actor Brad Douriff looks right now. It's designed for that.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know who that is. I'm the host of this fucking thing.

[Kyle Chouinard]

You need to.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, so we've Also got Phil, our bartender. We should talk in.

[Ed Zitron]

Hello.

[Robert Evans]

Hello. Thank you, Phil. Very good. That's enough.

[Ed Zitron]

Thank you.

[Robert Evans]

I really don't know how to direct this at this point, because I invited, like, seven people into this. I can't. Okay, well, let's start on an easy point. We'll just go around. How's everyone feeling at this point of ces? We are at the end. Let's start with Gare, because you are probably the, like, second least likely to say something legally actionable, and I realize that is now a challenge.

[Ed Zitron]

You haven't had all the conversations I've had with Gareth.

[Robert Evans]

What am I doing?

[Gare Davis]

I don't know. I feel fine. I was able to find some cool stuff despite having to sort through lots of slop. There's always one or two gems at CES that makes kind of all, like. That makes all of the slop sorting worth it. So I was happy to find a few of those in Eureka Park. I also had my fair share. No, absolutely not. We're not gonna do free publicity.

[Robert Evans]

Agreed. That's my job, and it costs money anyway.

[Gare Davis]

But, no, I was also able to have a little bit of fun. As soon as I realized that this show was just gonna be last year's show again, I kind of relaxed myself to being like, I can just kind of do what I can kind of just, like, fuck off. So I talked to a flying car company.

[Robert Evans]

How real was that?

[Gare Davis]

It was real. Hell, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Real fake.

[Gare Davis]

I was waiting to interview someone, and instead, one of their PR company walked up to me and was like, hey, can we interview you about your thoughts on this flying car? I'm like, absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

I wish that happened to me.

[Gare Davis]

Like, I would just.

[Robert Evans]

I will kill myself. It was every answer.

[Ed Zitron]

The phrase CES miracle gets used a lot, but that really was.

[Robert Evans]

Did you do it, though?

[Gare Davis]

Oh, I did.

[Robert Evans]

Hell, yeah.

[Gare Davis]

And so I talked a lot about, like, my concerns around safety for these flying cars. I predicted it has 20 minutes in the air. It was actually. It was a huge drone. And I got it exactly right. It was 20 minutes up in the air. It launches from something. Something that looks like a cyber truck. It launches. It launches out of the classic non blow up thing. It launches out of, like, the trunk of the cyber truck. You can get 20 minutes in the air, and then you're going to crash, or.

[Robert Evans]

Which is my goal.

[Gare Davis]

You will have some kind of AI assisted landing. And, like, I asked them, like, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So I am crashing.

[Gare Davis]

What's your plan for that? Like. Like, what if you're in a populated area. And you're like. And they said, no, we'll. We'll have guardrail software to make sure it doesn't land in populated areas. Of like, we have some of the.

[Robert Evans]

People from Night Capital.

[Gare Davis]

I'm launching this thing right in the middle of midtown Manhattan. I'm gonna do hover for 20 minutes. Which brings me to the second thing that they asked me about was like, like, what's, you know, what's. Maybe some. Some of your concerns? Or like, what's the first thing you think of? I'm like, well, a few weeks ago. A few weeks ago, so a Deloitte consultant drove a car into 15 people in a terrorist attack. Same day someone used a cybertruck to make a bomb. What if some rich guy loses his mind and flies this thing into a building? And they did not like that.

[Ed Zitron]

Why?

[Gare Davis]

I don't know what kind of PR trading these guys had. I. I don't know if they were.

[Ed Zitron]

Prepared for this good enough PR training that they were like, this person seems nice. Let's ask them what they think.

[Robert Evans]

Turning to my turn to my clients, like, just kill. You kill. Like just gun in your mind. Just don't. Don't answer diet. Like, it's the best way you could go about this.

[Ed Zitron]

That you would get into commercial aviation and not have an answer to the 911 question is just.

[Robert Evans]

That's in the past.

[Gare Davis]

So I was able to relax and have fun, you know, with moments like that you had fun. You know, once it became clear, it was just like, you know, like AI software was like the king of this year once again. A whole bunch of things that used to be like, you know, actually kind of like all of the, like university projects in Eureka park, which sometimes has like a really cool new thing. Right now all of that creativity is just being channeled into AI software. And that's in some ways disappointing to see. Some of the. Some of the software is like, good. Like it works, it can solve problems, but it's also, again, like, it's part of the slop. There's also a lot of slop software.

[Robert Evans]

I feel like we're in the slop society. I feel like we're at this point where everyone here, I think, is experiencing some form of mental damage from being here too long.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But also the thing.

[Ed Zitron]

Not me, baby.

[Gare Davis]

No, to be clear, definitely not.

[Robert Evans]

This is the one commonality I have with Robert, which is Robert is the only person I've seen exhibit the same thing of like the joker's feel, where you're just like, you're like, it gets worse and I get better. I'm just fucking suffer. And, like, the more I suffer, the stronger I get and the more intrigued I get with the more pain I get.

[Ed Zitron]

He's also the only person that I saw that I recognized on the the floor of the south hall of the convention center, where it was just like cell phone cases. Like, not technology, but just like Chinese stuff designed to be sold on Amazon.

[Robert Evans]

That's where Robert does his best work.

[Ed Zitron]

And he was. He was like, locked in. I was like, hey. And he got like, some of the way past me was like, do you fucking need something? Or whatever. Like, oh, man, from yesterday. Same table that we were at.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Zitron]

In my defense, there were really huge cell phones there. Like, massive. Like, it literally an inch and a half, thick, rugged cell phones.

[Robert Evans]

Okay?

[Ed Zitron]

I had to look at them. I had to touch them. We're not reporting on them. I have nothing to say about them. I had to feel them.

[Robert Evans]

Are we establishing that Robert Evans accidentally. Big times, people. Is that what we're saying here?

[Ed Zitron]

I did not feel big timed. I was just like, damn, this guy. Like, on another level, I will give.

[Robert Evans]

The most derisive view of. I did not know who Robert Evans was before August 2023, a fact I am regularly reminded of by everyone else. I mentioned Robert Evans to. Oh, my God, the Behind the Bastards guy. And I was like, this is the fucking guy with the weird avatar. Oh, you want to do a podcast about tech fucking that? What you going to do about it, mate? I need money. It turns out. IHeartRadio Corporation. Thank you. No negative statements right now, all of you. I actually need this. But nevertheless, it is really fun being here with Robert, because Robert, again, is one of the only people who experiences CES in the way I do, which is the Metallica song Frantic, where you're just like, it's not great, but you're here.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And it kind of bangs, but not for the reasons everyone else feels. Totally Saint Anger fans. Line up, all three of us. But it's also really fun being here this time because last year I was but a babe and very nervous. Now I'm just like, oh, no, you wade into it with your pants off. You're just like, I will see everything.

[Ed Zitron]

And speaking of Metallica, I heard a pretty good Master of Puppets cover at the MGM grand in the top three covers of Master of Puppets that I've heard on that exact same stage at the MGM Grand.

[Robert Evans]

No longer interested in the text. So where was this?

[Ed Zitron]

It was right near The Skee Ball.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, well, I know where we're going. Dinner is canceled, fellas. That's where I'm going. But it is interesting because talking to the various reporters here about CES and why we do this, and no one can answer that question, by the way. It's just like, we're all fucking here every January. But it has been interesting getting wonderful reporters like Kyle and getting. It could happen here. Rob and Gare getting Ed and Dave in, like. Like, truly, like. I don't wanna say objective, but like, fresh looks. And then Robert and Gare, of course, who are very much used to. Robert is a separate creature. I mean that with more love than I can ever put into my voice. But it's interesting to get this view and then bring reporters in and talk, and they're like, yeah, well, we're here and we saw stuff. But there's also an ephemera that is kind of hard to cover in objective journalism. Kyle.

[Gare Davis]

Totally.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. I thought that my main takeaway from the week was the politics of it. I mean, from. I was at Panasonic's keynote, and immediately you had people from the Consumer Tech association talking about tariffs. I mean, I walked by people wearing Department of Government Efficiency shirts.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, really?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. Which was really interesting.

[Robert Evans]

Did you hit them?

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, I did not.

[Robert Evans]

I'll take care of. No, don't.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Crimes are bad, but, yeah, I mean, tariffs were just such a thing. I think a CNN article also wrote about it. They were just kind of looming over the entire event. And it seems like. I mean, Trump coming in pretty soon is just kind of hanging over everyone's heads on top of all the text. So, I mean, what. Who's Donald Trump?

[Robert Evans]

No, sorry, please continue. I'm doing a bit.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think.

[Robert Evans]

Of the political feeling.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, there's a political feeling there. And at the same time CES is happening, you're seeing this shift from Meta that is just. I mean, especially on their new policies regarding comments about trans and just other fear people.

[Robert Evans]

Insane shit.

[Ed Zitron]

They're allowing.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. What was it saying?

[Robert Evans]

Like, you're allowed to say, let's not repeat the.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, no, I'm not.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

But it's basically. You can just insult trans people. You can insult gay people without any issue. Jewish people.

[Ed Zitron]

You can refer to women as property, too.

[Gare Davis]

I think, actually, really, like.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, at this point, I'm just like. You could say anything.

[Gare Davis]

No, and I think it actually is worth mentioning, like, specifically, like, the types of, like, insults around, like, mental illness that you're now allowed to call, to like, call queer people, but not call other types of people. Actually is. Actually is worth mentioning. Like, it's a huge change.

[Robert Evans]

It's just an interesting show because it desperately wants to be apolitical, amoral, totally bereft of these feelings, but it still shows it in the things they show. The collection of data, the kind of surveillance aspect. And it sucks because it feels like this show could be better because on the fringes of the conversations we've had of like, yeah, everyone's creating solutions for problems that they haven't even come up with yet. You get these things, the skincare product, the cane for blind people that can tell you what's coming up. Really useful things.

[Kyle Chouinard]

The translation stuff we were talking about.

[Ed Zitron]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Like, yeah, like actual translation for a conference. So you could go to a conference in Taiwan and actually fuck Computech. One of the most important conferences in the world.

[Gare Davis]

Some really impressive, like, tech to assist people who are disabled.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I thought accessibility tech was like my main highlight.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, that's what Eureka was best at showing.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's weird that Eureka, the Poison Ville, actually had some good shit in it for that.

[Ed Zitron]

And it had, I would say, the one consistent form factor for consumer tech that seems to be getting a lot better every year. And that reminds me of, like, how phones and tablets felt 10 years ago is glasses.

[Robert Evans]

Tell me more.

[Ed Zitron]

Like, they're getting smaller, they're getting more capable. I'm seeing, like, glasses that are designed for navigation that. That are designed for recording. I did see to what you were saying about politics. A lot of glasses that were specifically marketed based on their ability to aid TikTok that I'm like, ooh, in a week that might not be such a good business.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, I had a full conversation with someone speaking Chinese.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely fucking cool.

[Robert Evans]

That is objectively very cool.

[Gare Davis]

It's great.

[Robert Evans]

And was it a conversation with nuance? Like, it was a. Yeah, more than.

[Ed Zitron]

I'd have been able to do, you know, on my own before.

[Gare Davis]

We talked about making specific, specific dinner plans, what we do for work. See, this is like, it was like a real conversation.

[Robert Evans]

This is the thing that I. And I've said this many times in episodes. I'm not anti tech. I wish tech was able to do the thing they promised. But I love technology. The only reason I know literally every person I'm looking at in this room is through posting. And I'm not even kidding. And this is the sickening thing that upsets my father. No, my dad's very proud. My therapist kind of like my multiple lawyers. Anyway, the idea that one can do that but the Internet and tech is fully capable of making these wonderful connections. Like genuinely, I laugh about the Robert Evans thing. He found me through a podcast called Western Kabuki with my friend Caleb Wilson, June and other people who are wonderful, Alex as well, like great podcasts and these are all digital things. Tech is fully capable. As much as I can be cynical and angry about this stuff, the reason I'm fucking angry is it's fully capable of helping people and we've all experienced it.

[Ed Zitron]

That was the bit that I sort of was struck by again as like sort of somebody who hasn't covered this stuff as much and has had sort of, you know, the same sort of experience like a normal middle aged person's experience of tech. I was blown away by the capacities of the things that were. I mean like I didn't realize that it was like. Like you could have a conversation with someone speaking another language. Like I didn't see anything that, that cool. But the accessibility tech stuff for me too, like I found not just really impressive but really like heartening to see that. The bit that was strange and we obviously like have talked about this in, in previous episodes and stuff is the sort of contortions that are required in order to make that marketable in a way that like it's not like it's not a niche market to be an old person or to be disabled one way or another. That's like most people will experience that at some point in their life. And yet the way that you have to sort of. This was something that really struck me from yesterday that we talked about enough that I probably shouldn't be bringing it back up again. That you still have to come up with some sort of industrial application to it or you have to say AI or you have to do the stuff that in order to get people to invest in this stuff, which is expensive to develop and expensive to produce, you have to say the words that the money people want to hear. The mock, which is also like another of the sort of political aspects here that you've got this like in some ways, many. In many ways like a sort of. I'm tempted not to use this word, but I will say that it is like a good hearted intention. It feels like especially with the disability tech that is like actually aimed at using this notion new human capability to make people's lives better. And yet you still have to fucking pitch it to sociopaths if you want to get the thing made.

[Robert Evans]

And I say this as someone who runs a fairly successful podcast, I have 51,000 subscribers. I have a successful PR firm. I have had emails about this. I have dyspraxia, which is a coordination with disability. It limits my. I'm wearing zip up boots which look all banging, but I can't tie my shoes. And this is an embarrassing thing about my life. I fucking hate tying things. I physically can't do it. And you explain this to people and they laugh, which is really good with something that you're very upset about. People love to be laughed at for that. I don't think people realize the capacity for technology to bridge the gap between your own body's. I don't want to say failure, but inability to fully complete an action. And I think people are myself included at times. Exactly. But technology is one of the greatest examples. What was that you said again? Jesus Christ.

[Ed Zitron]

Assistive aid.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you. Assistive aids. And I nearly fucked it up again. Nevertheless, technology for me as a person has been something that's allowed me to bridge with so many of you. I will tear up on the fucking show. People I love, people that I've been able to experience through their own writing and their connections to them. But most of CES isn't fucking this. It's about bridging gaps between money people and money people to another money person so they can sell nothing to nobody.

[Gare Davis]

Totally.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that's disheartening is I was at like the Samsung booth, which is massive. You know, it's the size of a very large house, like a mansion. And every square foot is tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in terms of both the cost to rent it and the cost to, like, these displays they've got are very advanced. A lot of effort is just going into making the presentation as advanced as possible. And what I'm seeing on display there is like, well, we've got a fridge that lets you know when your milk is off. Off. And at the cost of you can never ever have a guy over to repair your fridge. Never, never again. And you compare that to. In Eureka park today, we saw a company who had a small booth that was maybe like 4ft wide, 5ft wide, called Naqi N A Q I that their attempt was to develop a way to allow people to control computers and interface with their machine, with their phone in a way that is similar to how neuralink works, but without any sort of surgery. So it's an earpiece you wear in your head. Oh, yeah, you talked to Them yesterday.

[Robert Evans]

Does this look real? We kind of made fun of this, but if this is real, awesome.

[Ed Zitron]

It seemed to like.

[Robert Evans]

We like the use case. We like the use case for people who are not able bodied. But what happened when we came up to the booth, the first pitch we got was for retail and then the.

[Ed Zitron]

Product guy, so different for us and.

[Robert Evans]

Was like, no, that's really what's real is, is you can use this. If you are someone who's not really able to use your arms or to move the rest of your body, you can slightly tilt it. And that makes more sense than like being able to do a highly like sort of like a retail cashier. Secondary labor productivity aim.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. I mean there was a cause like my mind was very much geared towards quadriplegics. But not just. But other cause it won't work if you have. As long as you have that muscular control, like above your neck. Like, it will work because it reads micro gestures of your face. And the live demo they did, you could see the signal coming into the phone when he would make micro gestures. And it would like, it would, you know, control the phone. So it seems like it works. I can also see. I can't see like a retail app for like you've got your smart glasses while you're biking.

[Robert Evans]

It fucking works. Because when we talked about it yesterday, it seemed to.

[Gare Davis]

But it's like.

[Ed Zitron]

But it seems I don't have the ability to like thoroughly.

[Robert Evans]

That they did it did Conceptual.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So this is the thing because I think also there were three or four of them where it's like.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, there were variations. There was the one that was like almost like a retainer that you put in and it gave you the same. It was a similar sort of idea. Yeah, you use your tongue. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, you used your tongue for it. We were struck by that because it was a guy standing completely still with no expression on his face and a bunch of people standing around him recording him on their phones. This is like we've entered the da da section of the Eureka Park. But all of those booths together were like a tenth of Samsung's booth. And all of them were people utilizing significant ingenuity to attempt to solve problems for real human beings who were suffering. As opposed to the Samsung booth, which was this massive edifice of capital attempting to solve the problem of like, well, what if your milk goes bad?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, no. And you know, and that's the thing.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I think also, you know, will pick.

[Robert Evans]

My people this a bunch too. This inventive stuff was the most Interesting. Of a few friends with neurodegenerative diseases and some of the stuff that gets made and offered to be able to give finer control over tasks that you.

[Gare Davis]

Need to do, especially when you have.

[Robert Evans]

Sudden jumps in what you're able to do or not do. Very impressive. But then kind of similar to what you were just saying, sometimes you literally can't get that made unless you have have to conjure up some sort of secondary application. Which is a shame and a problem with how tech innovation proceeds because you must show growth. You must be like, this is how this is going to turn. There should be no reason why you have to consider anything other than that.

[Ed Zitron]

Immediate.

[Robert Evans]

Urgent use case, which is like someone losing the ability to communicate with the outside world. Avoidance.

[Kyle Chouinard]

So from the earlier conversation we've had several times regarding regulatory power and authorized medical devices.

[Robert Evans]

So all of these products.

[Kyle Chouinard]

I've sounded negative for. You're trying to skirt and avoid these requirements. However, the agencies that certify them to want to help people, they want people to go through this process.

[Ed Zitron]

So these are the things that the.

[Kyle Chouinard]

FDA loves to see and it's hopeful. Yeah, I mean, I guess the you can talk about capital. I mean the main worry is that if there's no growth opportunity for a product, then there's no investment and it just kills products that have a one use purpose. And that's all there is to it, because that's all there needs to be to it. And I think that's one thing that struck me as well, is that everything needs to have bells and whistles that aren't usually necessary.

[Robert Evans]

So one of the themes I've discussed on this show is the rot economy, the idea that everything is growth at all costs. And some of you at the very beginning were very unfair. You're saying that he's just angry at nothing. I'm angry at everything.

[Ed Zitron]

I love that when you do your Donald Trump voice, I can tell now turn my head.

[Robert Evans]

But it's. I hope it's been obvious how pernicious this problem is because there are companies doing really useful things and I talk about my dyspraxia because I don't know, whatever platform I have, I want people to realize if you fucking have this and someone makes fun of you, give me their email. I will personally make them regret being online. This is a personal thing. I was bullied. I will bully back. Very unfair to them. But the point is there are real solutions to real problems, real things being fixed today by companies that are actually raising money. And then you've got The Samsung Milk simulator that uses generative AI to assume when your milk won't go bad as opposed to looking at the fucking top. And then it'll banter you a little bit. And the Bailey Bot that walks on your milk has expired.

[Ed Zitron]

I did see a product that I would say was my best in show in terms of products that you see in Apple for. In the first three minutes of a zombie movie. And then it causes the outbreak. And like that's the end of the world scenario. And it was called Viridox and it does Viridox do. It's a product that generates a mist. Oh, no. That sweeps over your fruits and vegetables to stop them from spoiling.

[Gare Davis]

What?

[Ed Zitron]

Using plasma.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Plasma.

[Ed Zitron]

And here's the thing. They explained this to me. They said it extends the shelf life of like you can put this little box up and it'll get the mist over groceries in your kitchen. Or you can use it in like a. In a grocery store to get all of the GR. And it'll extend the shelf life by 33%. And if that's a real thing, that's massive. Right? I have no ability to vet this based on what I know from absolutely no ability to bet this.

[Gare Davis]

I'm huff that mist. I'm going to huff that mist.

[Ed Zitron]

I did, buddy. Didn't get high. I'm so useless as far as I'm concerned.

[Robert Evans]

So quick question.

[Ed Zitron]

Anyone that's like extends the shelf life of your vegetables, leaves you glowing youthful.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yes.

[Ed Zitron]

And then also, like, there's like a 70% chance you grow a tail.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, hey, hey. Whoa.

[Ed Zitron]

Sign me up for free.

[Robert Evans]

You're trying to not.

[Gare Davis]

Some people are into it.

[Ed Zitron]

It's also that. That's like the most innocuous. Like that actually sounds good. Like it's similar to something you would see. And they just called it like. Like Doom Slayer. Like, but it's for your cucumbers.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Like, we just thought it sounded coolant here.

[Robert Evans]

Doom Slayer has done some great work, but also two things. Well, let's just focus on one, which is what the fuck does the mist.

[Ed Zitron]

What's it made up of? The way they explained it is that it's a mist and it kills before you actually get like molds starting to form. It kills them. So it extends the period of time.

[Robert Evans]

The mold you.

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, the mold.

[Gare Davis]

The mold.

[Ed Zitron]

It's so far just the mold. It said. Cause I asked if it was dangerous and they said no, I have no ability to vet the Viridox people at this moment. I'm not trying to shit on that. Maybe this will massively improve the world. It just seemed like a product that caused the apocalypse. That was the. When somebody said we make a contagion called Viridox. This is like, oh, you're going to kill everyone I love. Okay, great.

[Robert Evans]

It's like in a wet market that spreads virus from a bad.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So any Nine Inch Nails fans here? Like, a year zero I'm thinking of. This is the big hand from the year zero.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. Again, this scene right now could be the start of the apocalypse movie. Yeah. No. Okay. And then the one of us who's alive in three weeks, like, is thinking back to this as they're fighting off Viradox zombies.

[Robert Evans]

And I'll use this contagion again to complain about the end of Jujutsu Kaisen, the manga. I'm gonna just really put this in them. How did you want Jujutsu Kaisen to end? Okay, well, thank you for asking.

[Gare Davis]

Welcome.

[Ed Zitron]

Did you want ghetto to live?

[Robert Evans]

Getting into the woods?

[Ed Zitron]

Is that what you wanted? I'm going to take a break.

[Robert Evans]

Well, first of all, the people of the jujutsu high school thing, they do very unfair to Mr. Ryan and Sukuna. Right. Second of all, they spend a lot of time building up abilities that do not manifest into an interesting plot.

[Ed Zitron]

Are these real people? Are these.

[Robert Evans]

No, this is a manga. And I'm being very fucking serious. You made this podcast happen. You suffer serious robbery. It's called the ending of Jujutsu Kaisen involves a bit where Ryan. Mr. Ryan and Sukuna, Mr. Satoru Gojo, he's very unfairly treated. They show him winning a battle and then at the end of the battle, he's dead.

[Gare Davis]

He's treated so unfair.

[Robert Evans]

Cause he lost. Treating unfairly chopped in half. And then it's just a simple dream sequence which is very unfair for Rigged.

[Gare Davis]

Rigged.

[Robert Evans]

Unfair for Mr. Ran and seeking a.

[Ed Zitron]

Now I'm thinking. And now I'm thinking. The paradox apocalypse happened because I am trapped in a room at the Venetian. Five different Trump impersonators did not want the future.

[Robert Evans]

I'm so sorry to my listeners.

[Ed Zitron]

I can see it in your eyes.

[Robert Evans]

I'm sorry. This is how David Roth feels about the Mets. So I'll move us back to the podcast as we wrap this bad boy up.

[Ed Zitron]

I have no ability to vet it based on the conversation I had.

[Robert Evans]

You never worked. I genuinely wanna thank everyone else in this room because we're doing another episode tomorrow. But this show has been conceptually one of the more insane things I have done. And I must give real Credit to Sophie Lichterman, who is one of the hardest working and also most patient people in history.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And Sophie, Skinny.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Zitron]

No comment.

[Robert Evans]

She is the only person who can mortal really move Robert.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Who is one of the single most talented people I have met in my fucking life. And my boss comment. There we go. And Robert turned to me a year ago and said, you seem to be more pissed off at these people than anyone. And he was wrong. Only because I was yet to get pissed off enough. Robert has been insanely supportive of me in a creative means that no one else has. And honestly, everyone in this room has. Gare turned to me and said, you seem to just be a series of grievances. And Gare was completely correct.

[Gare Davis]

It has been so fun hearing you get progressively more angry over the course of a year. It's been a real treasure. And I mean it sincerely.

[Robert Evans]

I say this as someone who is a peer of yours. The work you make seems to get better every episode and you're incredible at it.

[Gare Davis]

Thank you so much.

[Robert Evans]

You're getting none of this, Robert.

[Ed Zitron]

You're just very good at writing. I say this as someone who is profiting off of you. Are you in a statin? Should we. Should we make sure?

[Robert Evans]

I don't know what that is.

[Ed Zitron]

Just hard medication. I'm just worried, dude.

[Robert Evans]

I am the healthiest I've ever been. My VO2 max is doing well. My doctor's really happy. They don't know what I did ever.

[Ed Zitron]

Since I got a viridox installed.

[Gare Davis]

And that's another CES miracle. Which leads me to. The last thing that I'll say is the first thing we all said on episode one is, this feels like the CES from last year. And we're not the only ones to think that. No, it's true. Last night I was at the chandelier in the Cosmo.

[Robert Evans]

That is the place.

[Ed Zitron]

Now we can write off the drinks. Thank you, guys.

[Robert Evans]

There we go.

[Gare Davis]

And Robert. I was sitting at the bar and Robert was upstairs waiting for a table. And we got a table. Hard, hard to do.

[Robert Evans]

Honestly, challenging.

[Gare Davis]

And I said, it's another CES miracle. There was two people sitting next to me who turned was like, what ces? There was two people sitting next to me who turned and said, what CES are you going to. This has been terrible. And I had a great, if brief, conversation with these people who were two exhibitors now. I was a bad journalist. I was too drunk. I. I did not learn which company they were from, but no problem. They were two People who were exhibiting as ces, and, like, this feels just like last year's ces. And I was like, yes, this is what me and all my friends have been saying. Like, it is. It. It has been so disappointing. And it's not just us, like, you know, somewhat tech critical journalists. It's people who actually, like, go to CES to present who are saying the exact same thing. Like, yeah, this is. This is last year's ces, but worse, because there's nothing new. And this is, like, I did not feed them this. They turned to me and said this, like, unprompted, and they're like, what kind of miracles are you seeing? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was sarcastic.

[Ed Zitron]

It's remarkable to see. And, David, I'm gonna guess your knees are about as bad as mine. But starting out in 2010, like, right after kind of the iPad came out, there was so much excitement. Every year of, like, I'd never seen a thing that could do this. Every year, I'd never seen a thing that could do. And that would be every room I walked into. Every, like, 30 minutes, I would see a thing that was like, I didn't know technology could do that until this exact second. And that's just not CES anymore.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah. I mean, it's like, even as, like, a soft touch, you can be impressed by, like, a cool new TV screen. It's not the first TV screen I've seen. You know, not to brag, but there is, like. Yeah, there's certainly that sense. It's interesting that, like, the people that are showing here were also kind of like, what am I doing? Like, I feel like, what am I doing here?

[Gare Davis]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I think the. And what Better Offline has tried to do with this entire show is CES is a combination of people who don't want to be here and do want to be here. And a lot of the people that want to be here are the people that already live here to sell services to those who are visiting. But the fundamental problem with CES is that the show itself doesn't seem to be serving the use case of making things happen in the future. It's like, how can we make the present continue for longer?

[Gare Davis]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

And the thing is, something I've tried to do with this, and I should be clear about what this is, everything you're hearing this week is something I came up with about five weeks ago. I wanted to do this. I booked this months ago, Robert, then booked much later for it could happen here. And Robert, please get.

[Ed Zitron]

I was hungover for fall.

[Robert Evans]

He is actually, so far is so much stronger willed.

[Ed Zitron]

And that's very true.

[Robert Evans]

Willing to respond. But Robert has been an incredible mentor and I'm going to be sentimental and you're just gonna have to fucking suck it up. All right? We're an award nominated podcast that can do whatever the hell I want. But what I think this show needs going forward is more independent voices. And it means bringing in people like Kyle from Las Vegas Sun.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Hello?

[Robert Evans]

And allowing them to speak. Because it isn't so much the problem, these journalists can't say what they want, it's that formats demand things in certain ways. And the way to talk about tech is no longer as flat as and the product exists or tech company sucks. I can do both. But the thing is, having these different voices, having these people talk about their experience of ces, is on some level an explanation of how the tech industry feels. They're in this thing where you have this dichotomy between this vast milieu of different things that are like, hey, what if this happened? You'd then give me money. What would that be like? Well, I'd have the money and then you'd have the product and did something good happen? Oh, I don't care. And then you have these people like, I'm gonna fucking solve. People with eye twitches. People with twitching in their eye, which turns out to be a huge industry of people who are genuinely fucking suffering. People with way bigger problems, like mobility problems, having their problems solved in real time. But the people that get talked about are, I have the most massive television. And no, I actually take that back. It's not even the big TV. I want a larger TV. I want like a 250 inch fucker. I want to watch the Raiders lose.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, that was. So I had a moment at the Samsung booth when they were showing off one of those transparent TV and there was a lady who sold another one. Another one?

[Gare Davis]

Well, probably the same one.

[Robert Evans]

No, that was LG last year.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, maybe it was lg.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, I think it was lg. Yeah. Yeah, it all blurs together. There was a lady behind a transparent TV whose whole job was when the TV went transparent, to wave her hand behind it. And I was like, that's your job.

[Robert Evans]

Ah, the hand waiver.

[Ed Zitron]

And it was this recognition as they're like walking as we. Garrison and I sat through a guy who played us AI generated ska and tried to convince us that we did we no longer needed. Does that sound like that human music?

[Kyle Chouinard]

Even better.

[Ed Zitron]

Great. The Next time someone plays that is.

[Robert Evans]

A real falling down situation.

[Ed Zitron]

It is very much a falling down situation. Yes. But the realization that there is a chunk of guys running big tech who see holding your hand behind the transparent TV as a thing that human beings should do, but not making music and like that upsets me.

[Robert Evans]

It's just, it's frustrating because entering into this and the format that I created in a Google Doc three weeks ago, and some people even read it, the goal was to try and pull out how this show affects people and indeed the implications of this show do. I'm now going to return to the sentimental bit I was diverted by. I want to thank every single fucking person who listened to this, but also joined me on this. Gare Davis, one of the single, insanely young and in a non specific way, I realize, the single most talented person to come into anything associated with tech. Insanely young, but also is insanely prescient and aware of the social issues, but also the context of basically everything they look at. Robert Evans, the single most focused but disorganized person I've ever met, but also someone who cares so deeply and has such an innate talent at finding talent and empowering those voices. Without Robert Evans, I would not have done this. And I did try and like wave him off. When he offered the podcast to me, I was like, yeah, mate, sure. You got a fucking budget, don't you, man? Doing the actual jack off gesture in front of the computer. Robert and Sophie Lichterman, who will never get enough compliments and by the way, universal law with better offline. If you don't love Sophie, I will fucking kill you. Not literally, but I will think about it very fucking aggressively. Robert has actually had faith in me that most people haven't and the result is a fucking successful tech podcast that does things more successfully than most of the tech podcasts out there. Otherwise. Robert supports Gare, who has been so incredible and will do better work than I will ever do. But you know what? That's what doing good shit is, knowing the people who do things well.

[Ed Zitron]

What I've been really excited about this year is getting to meet David and Edward and now getting to meet you. This is the first time we're in a room together.

[Kyle Chouinard]

No, it's not. We talked yesterday.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, shit. I was so drunk. So sorry. Kyle.

[Kyle Chouinard]

During the panel.

[Gare Davis]

During the panel, the disinformation.

[Ed Zitron]

Oh, no, no, I was.

[Robert Evans]

I was just.

[Ed Zitron]

I was just high on mushrooms for the panel.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Gare Davis]

I was.

[Robert Evans]

They're from a gas station and I've.

[Ed Zitron]

Got Some kratom still in my pocket if you want. I'm okay.

[Robert Evans]

I was trying to do like a sincere moment and like kratom is like.

[Ed Zitron]

If it was Robert.

[Robert Evans]

Robert Sugar microphone. No, let Robert finish his fucking thing.

[Ed Zitron]

About what I'm saying. Like, it's been very exciting to get to meet these folks, some of whom I had been reading for a while, but also some of whom I'm excited to start reading and get to like make these connections because in a CES that is so anti human. It's nice to make connections to people.

[Robert Evans]

And I'm about to harpoon you with sincerity. Robert and Sophie have been the single and Gaet as well have been the most single supportive creatives I've ever fucking worked with in my life. I have had issues with believing in myself and believing what I can do. I have talent, whatever, like, who fucking cares? Email me you're mad you're listening to this, you little pig. But the thing is these people beyond when even a year ago I didn't think I could fucking do this. And now look at me, I'm a fucking ultra ponce and it rocks. And I believe what Cool Zone Media does is the future of fucking creativity. The idea that a big corporation can give someone multiple seasons to work out their audience, work out what they're building. You look at it behind the bastards. It could happen here. 6 16th minute politics, cool people who did cool stuff. There is so much cool shit that comes out of the idea of, damn, what if you give people more time to build something than seven minutes? What if you didn't rush them to make something good better? Offline at the beginning was fucking rough, but we worked it out and you people seem to like it. And the people in this room are fucking adore. But don't worry, we're not done. Phil Broughton over there, Phil brought in health physicist. He's picked me up two or three times and I've been like, shit my pants. Not literally, I've never shit my pants around you. Let's not talk about that further. But the truth is Phil has been here for multiple cess. Tending bar. Grab the mic, you motherfucker. Tending bar for people and ultimately doing the thing of asking them why they are here. I think that is the most valuable thing you can do in the Consumer Electronics Show. Asking people the reason they are there and finding out what it is they actually fucking cared about. And you do that so well. While also serving various bourbons. And he was even like, I don't like their plan. He replaced it And I like this one, by the way.

[Gare Davis]

One of my.

[Ed Zitron]

That would be Alberta premium at cask strength rye.

[Kyle Chouinard]

That was a goddamn journey that made.

[Gare Davis]

Fury for weeks finding it.

[Robert Evans]

Phil, I love you.

[Gare Davis]

Oh, thank you.

[Robert Evans]

I love all of you. Seriously. Thank you.

[Gare Davis]

One of the things that made me.

[Ed Zitron]

Happy is for everyone that I picked.

[Gare Davis]

Up at an elevator.

[Ed Zitron]

By the time we'd hit the 28th.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Floor, I knew what I was serving you.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you so much, ma'am. David Roth. David Roth is someone I brought here. No. Take the fucking mic. You grab the goddamn mic. I will shove it in your mouth.

[Ed Zitron]

We all know how good I am, Ed.

[Robert Evans]

Which is why it's necessary to remind people David Roth is the. Is actually my favorite writer. And he is one of the single most empathetic people who understands why people enjoy stuff. And his sports writing and cultural writing is genuinely influential over everything I've ever done. And I'm absolutely going self indulgent. There's nothing a single fucking person in this room could do it. Matt Osowski's just sitting there being like, yep, vacuum it up. But David Roth being here is like watching the movies with Ebem and it's genuinely. I'm getting a little emotional, but thank.

[Ed Zitron]

You, David, and thanks for having me. For real. I feel the same.

[Robert Evans]

Edward and Grayso Jr. You are an undiscovered talent. And anyone fortunate enough to listen to this should know they should hire you immediately. Because when you finally take off, when you finally get big enough, you are the single most capable. Grab the microphone. Hello? I said when I get my gun. Yeah. Okay, let's walk back the gun. Okay, let's cut that out. Now. The words, when I get my. Matt, this is still. Keep it in. But just to be clear, the gun was a metaphor, right? For my potential. I'm really trying.

[Gare Davis]

Sorry.

[Robert Evans]

No more. No more. I know you're not done, Ed. There are. There really isn't another writer that can do the kind of labor reporting you do and the understanding of the human experience that you can do. You are just at the beginning, and I can't wait to bring you back on this show and have you do more. I love all of you so much, but also, your potential is barely. You are. Your potential is barely. Getting started is some shit you'd see on a CES banner, though.

[Gare Davis]

This is the worst ever gonna.

[Robert Evans]

This is the worst I'll ever be.

[Gare Davis]

That's right. That's right, brother.

[Robert Evans]

That's what I put on Hinge.

[Ed Zitron]

Yeah, it is very.

[Robert Evans]

I might steal that. I actually might put that on hinge. Any. Any singles want to email me, like, that's what's on.

[Ed Zitron]

Look, darling, I know I vomited in your car, but let me assure you, this is the worst I'm ever gonna be.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, my God. Kyle Chenard. You may think I just met you. So that's true. You came on this show completely. You were actually well prepared. You had a laptop out, which fucking rocks. You actually, like, took this seriously, much like I did with my laptop out that I don't have. And the preparation, I definitely did. Here's the thing. On an instinctual level, when your first thought is labor, that says a lot about you as a person. Person. It's incredible that you immediately jump to the hospitality workers in this city that are befalled by the various conferences and you thought, how the fuck does this affect them? Because when it comes to better offline and what this show actually means, it's what the actual effects of technology are on people. So thank you for joining us. Of course. And please keep doing your shit. You're going to be back on because we live in the same city.

[Kyle Chouinard]

We do. We do.

[Robert Evans]

And I will be finding you.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, God. Oh, God.

[Ed Zitron]

So many more actionable threats in these episodes than I'd expected.

[Robert Evans]

That's not a threat, it's a promise.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Oh, thank you.

[Robert Evans]

I wouldn't thank me. And then of course, to Matasowski. Matasowski is our producer and he is the silent party who has been sitting here patiently the entire show, working through, texting me, time signals. When I text him I have burped. He edits that out because it's happened three times, I believe Matt I. And I bring up Matt Hughes here, my word editor, who has been so patient with him. Megan Werner Strom over at Penguin, who's also been patient reading the dross. I assume she says it's good, but back to Matt Osowski. Matt has been here since the beginning when I was really not fucking confident about this show and I was genuinely experiencing, like, real anxiety. More. Matt encouraged me, worked with me, and edited. Matt, love you, man. Thank you so much for your hard work this entire week. Could you come over to the microphone and just say hello? Hello. Matt Osalski is a protected party. If you ever run Matt Osalski, I will destroy you. Actually, everyone in this room. But really, like, if you fuck with Mattasowski, I will actually fucking peck out your eyes.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Like a good podcast voice.

[Robert Evans]

Like a Big bird. If you play Final Fantasy xv, specifically the Zoo Bird. Very big bird. You've been listening to the better Offline CS experience. I am so grateful that you've been here and tomorrow you'll get a final wrap up episode. But this is really like the wrap night. I am actually really grateful for everyone who came in. Everyone has really fucking showed up and just done an incredible show for a show that is so regularly so fucking miserable and so lifeless about people that people are imagining rather than real people. And everyone's been here and just shown an incredible fucking show. I'm so grateful to everyone for being here. Thank you. And I'm now going to pass the microphone around, starting with Zai, who's been here. Zai, please join us. Thank you for.

[Ed Zitron]

Hi. Hello.

[Robert Evans]

You've been wonderful taking photos. Thank you. And then we'll now go to Robert Evans. Thank you, Robert.

[Ed Zitron]

Well, I just want everyone to know that, you know, as the Vyranox miss takes your loved ones. Ed cares about you.

[Robert Evans]

Phil. I want to thank everyone.

[Gare Davis]

It's been a pleasure to be here and.

[Kyle Chouinard]

And to serve. To serve and be of service.

[Ed Zitron]

David Ruff, thanks very much. It was a good time and I feel like I Learned a lot.

[Robert Evans]

Mr. Onguesa had a great time and I'm not going to make any more legally actionable threats. Thanks. You can just say it.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Yeah. This was my first CES ever and I really enjoyed figuring out what was real and what wasn't and support local journalism.

[Gare Davis]

Yeah, well. And thank you, Ed, for putting this whole space together. This has been a fantastic escape away from the show floor. I spent five hours in the Venetian today. Coming up here was a wonderful reprieve and you really put this all together. So thank you so much and your hard work over the last year on Better Offline has been lovely. Has been lovely to watch.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you so much and thank you so much for your listeners. If you've got to this point. I'm so sorry, but also so thank you for your patience. I hope I've successfully encapsulated CES and given you the various juxtapositions of the show. Tomorrow you'll have a wonderful positive masculinity day as the remaining crew, Me Matasowski, Phil Broughton and Ed Ongueso Jr. Kind of like smooth ourselves out. Real smooth, like. But today's the last day of the show. Email me EZ or EZ if you're one of those people. Better offline.com please let me know what you thought. A lot of you have emailed like we had. We didn't have enough woman on this. We next year we're gonna fucking correct that. We luckily got Victoria Song, Karissa Bell, and of course Sherlyn Lowe, who really balanced that out. We'll do a better job last last time. Wow. The concept of time is fucked up. Nevertheless, we'll do a better job next year. And I love your feedback and I actually read all the emails else will I respond to them. It gets increasingly harder each each week, which is a good sign, I guess. Either way, I'm very grateful for all of you. A lot of people have given a lot of people given me faith, given my given their faith, Jesus Christ in the show in the last year. It's only going to get better. But next CES is going to be weirder. Gare has ideas, I have ideas. And it's just gonna be sharper. It's just gonna be weirder. And you have another episode.

[Ed Zitron]

There's gonna be more Vera Knox too.

[Robert Evans]

Palpatine will be back.

[Kyle Chouinard]

CES 2024 Part 3.

[Robert Evans]

I'm actually gonna like try and contact Ian McDonald. But anyway, thank you so much for listening. I know it's a lot of audio and I am really grateful for everyone who contacts and I love everyone who who listens. I genuinely am so grateful. I am not really good at hiding any of like the me in this and a lot of podcasts are very performative. I've Phil can speak to this more than anyone. I'm not really good at like pretending.

[Ed Zitron]

There'S no off switch.

[Robert Evans]

There is no off switch. I genuinely love you all. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matosauski. You can check out more of his music and audio [e-mail] m a t t o s o w S-K-I.com you can email me at ezeteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also watch really recommend you go to chat wheresyoured at to visit the Discord and go to r betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening.

[Gare Davis]

Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or.

[Robert Evans]

Wherever you get your podcast.

[Ed Zitron]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible.

[Robert Evans]

Force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers.

[Ed Zitron]

Of all makes us human?

[Robert Evans]

On tech stuff, we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech.

[Ed Zitron]

To low culture and everywhere in between. Join Us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the Thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd. I love writing more than anything.

[Robert Evans]

You're left alone, you know.

[Ed Zitron]

You do three hours in the morning.

[Robert Evans]

You write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night.

[Ed Zitron]

And after nine hours you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, you are cordially invited to.

[Gare Davis]

The hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and the host of welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of.

[Robert Evans]

Your friendly neighborhood country club.

[Gare Davis]

Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an I Heart Women's fourth production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

[Ed Zitron]

Listen to welcome to the Party that's.

[Robert Evans]

P A R T E e on.

[Gare Davis]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever.

[Robert Evans]

You get your podcasts.

[Ed Zitron]

The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Erica.

[Ed Zitron]

And I'm Mila, and we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast.

[Kyle Chouinard]

Podcast, brought to you by the Black.

[Ed Zitron]

Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much and women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your try. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect podcast network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. 1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council.