Better Offline CES 2025: Day 6 - Epilogue

Summary

Better Offline CES 2025: Day 6 - Epilogue

Release Date: January 12, 2025

Introduction: Wrapping Up CES 2025

In the final episode of Better Offline's coverage of the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2025, host Osvaloshin welcomes listeners to the epilogue, reflecting on the week-long event held at the Venetian Expo Center in Las Vegas. This episode serves as a comprehensive reflection on the experiences, insights, and lessons learned during CES, emphasizing the human connections within the tech industry.

Highlights and Personal Experiences at CES

Ergonomics and Physical Toll

Phil Broughton shares his observations on the ergonomics of high-end venues, humorously noting the discomfort of standing on marble floors: “The richer you are, the more you're gonna hurt for style” (04:50). This light-hearted commentary sets the tone for a candid discussion about the physical demands of attending large tech events.

Positive Masculinity and Solidarity

Osvaloshin and Phil discuss their efforts to foster a positive environment amidst the traditionally male-dominated tech media. Osvaloshin remarks, “It feels like collecting years of CES into one” (07:05), highlighting the intense yet rewarding nature of their participation. The hosts express gratitude towards their guests and the supportive community they encountered, reinforcing the importance of camaraderie in the tech space.

Interactions with Tech Media Personalities

The episode features engaging conversations with various tech media representatives, including Ed Ongueso Jr. and other notable journalists. Osvaloshin reflects on the genuine passion observed among the attendees: “It's really heartening to hear others talk about this because I feel like the Bylines that some people are under, they kind of rob them of that passion” (07:05). This underscores the authenticity and dedication present within the tech media community.

Reflections on Tech Media and Industry Practices

Critique of Current Tech Innovations

Alec Baldwin provides a critical perspective on the quality and practicality of many tech products showcased at CES. He observes, “Most of the tech either simply does not exist or is in a prototype form” (11:28), expressing skepticism about the tangible benefits of certain innovations. This sentiment resonates with others, fostering a deeper discussion on the actual value versus the hype in the tech industry.

The Role of Venture Capital and Profitability

The hosts delve into the influence of venture capital in shaping tech developments. Baldwin argues that the pursuit of profitability often overshadows genuine technological innovation: “All of the limitations, there's more energy being spent on evading all the barriers to maximizing potential valuation and profitability and market share instead of the actual technological innovation itself” (58:45). This critique highlights the tension between financial incentives and meaningful progress in technology.

Human Connections and the Future of Tech Media

Building Authentic Relationships

Osvaloshin emphasizes the importance of personal connections within the tech media, stating, “You don't have to be so fucking self-conscious, you fucking cowards” (69:10). The episode celebrates the friendships and collaborative spirit that emerged during CES, suggesting that these relationships can drive more honest and passionate coverage of technology.

Vision for Next Year and Beyond

Looking ahead, the hosts express their commitment to diversifying voices and enhancing the structure of their coverage for future events. Osvaloshin shares plans to include more diverse perspectives and subject matter experts: “We’re going to do a much better job next year. And we've already, like, making plans for this 2026” (35:54). This forward-thinking approach aims to create a more inclusive and comprehensive dialogue around technology.

Closing Remarks and Acknowledgments

Gratitude and Recognition

The episode concludes with heartfelt thanks to guests, contributors, and the production team. Osvaloshin acknowledges the hard work of bartender Phil Broughton and producer Matt Ossowski, among others, highlighting their pivotal roles in making the coverage possible: “We couldn't have done it without you, Matt Ossowski” (65:09).

Final Thoughts on Technology and Humanity

In a final emotional reflection, Osvaloshin reiterates the show's mission to uncover the human side of technology: “There are people coming in here who are slightly excited or very excited about a smaller laptop because they're able to use the computer in a different place, so they're able to do more with their lives” (65:45). This underscores the enduring belief in technology's potential to enhance human experiences when driven by genuine passion and care.

Notable Quotes

• Phil Broughton (07:05): “It feels like collecting years of CES into one.”
• Osvaloshin (07:05): “It's really heartening to hear others talk about this because I feel like the Bylines that some people are under, they kind of rob them of that passion.”
• Alec Baldwin (11:28): “Most of the tech either simply does not exist or is in a prototype form.”
• Osvaloshin (69:10): “You don't have to be so fucking self-conscious, you fucking cowards.”
• Phil Broughton (58:45): “All of the limitations, there's more energy being spent on evading all the barriers to maximizing potential valuation and profitability and market share instead of the actual technological innovation itself.”
• Osvaloshin (65:45): “There are people coming in here who are slightly excited or very excited about a smaller laptop because they're able to use the computer in a different place, so they're able to do more with their lives.”

Conclusion

The epilogue of Better Offline CES 2025 encapsulates a week of intense exploration, critical analysis, and meaningful human interactions within the tech industry. By balancing skepticism with hope, the hosts provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current tech landscape and its future trajectory. As they look forward to future events, the commitment to fostering genuine connections and diverse perspectives remains at the core of Better Offline’s mission.

For more insights and updates, visit betteroffline.com or follow them on their social media channels.

Transcript

[Osvaloshin]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On Tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join Us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and.

[Alec Baldwin]

The host of welcome to the Party.

[Osvaloshin]

Your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart Women's fourth production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party that's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, here's the Thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

[Osvaloshin]

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and right at night and after nine.

[Phil Broughton]

Hours you come out with seven pages.

[Osvaloshin]

And then you're moving on.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

How serious is youth vaping?

[Phil Broughton]

Irreversible.

[Osvaloshin]

Lung damage? Serious. One in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the Ad Council. The OGs of Uncensored Motherhood are back.

[Alec Baldwin]

And badder than ever.

[Osvaloshin]

I'm Erica. And I'm Mila, and we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much and Women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect podcast network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. Call Zone Media. Welcome to the final episode of Better Offline's coverage of the Consumer Electronics Show. I love you all. All right, so we've made it, everyone. We're on. The final day is Saturday, January 11th. We have all. We conferenced ourselves out a bit. We had a wonderful positive masculinity day. We went out and got brunch, we went and got massages. Tonight we're gonna go get dinner. But we're here for kind of a. Kind of an epilogue episode. Cause yesterday I thought was gonna be less of a close, but it turned out to be a real finale. So really, this is just about what we've learned at this ces. So, Phil, what have you learned at the ces? What is it?

[Phil Broughton]

Oddly, it's an ergonomics thing. Okay, so we just got massages and, man, I feel so much better than I did five days standing on my feet on marble. In my multi decade career of gambling in this fine city and its many beautiful slot machines we previously discussed, I've gotten to sample a lot of rooms, a lot of decor, and one of the things that I've picked up is the more high end your room is, the less carpet you get. So you get a lot of marble to stand on, which is awful on your feet. And I came back and earlier today, I went looking at the pit bosses and the dealers and realized they're standing on marble too. I cannot imagine trying to work an entire day standing on that out there.

[Osvaloshin]

So what was the lesson you learned, though? Ouchie.

[Phil Broughton]

The richer you are, the more you're gonna hurt for style.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, the problem is people keep thinking about rich and hurt a little too much at the moment, and I don't really want to fuel that conversation. So the thing is, more comfortable shoes, I guess you need possibly. Yeah, we need to get you a little kitchen pad, actually, that might. I'm saying that facetiously when that actually might be the solution to the problem. Cause Phil has been tending bar. If you're, for some reason, choosing the epilogue episode to start with, you're my kind of freak. By the way, I am joined by, of course, health physicist and bartender Phil Broughton, who has been, I think you've served, what, at least 100 drinks this week?

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, well, based on the stacks of My cups. Well, more. We're probably in the 200 range.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah. And you've seen most of the tech media. It's been lovely. Phil has been working his ass off, and we're all very grateful. Most of the tech media is grateful. I say to this, if some of them wouldn't be, and, well, Maybe they.

[Phil Broughton]

Get 86 from my bar if they were.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, that's true. I don't think that's the case. We've had, like, an unrelenting horde of very pleasant, lovely people. And Talking of that, Mr. Edward Ongueso Jr. Joins us for our last day here.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hello. Hello.

[Osvaloshin]

How are you feeling, Ed?

[Alec Baldwin]

I'm fighting the itis.

[Osvaloshin]

You got the itis.

[Alec Baldwin]

I mean, I have an unconscionable amount of food in my belly.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, we fed. We fed. Just to be clear, I fed the boys up, been gorged, and we're only doing more of it tonight, this morning.

[Phil Broughton]

And more to come.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, I'm. More to come. You can do it, man. Dude. Yeah. I woke up with heartburn and a slightly collapsed lung, and I had to inflate again. But other than that, you know, I'm.

[Osvaloshin]

Doing that average, better offline listener, just one step closer to the end. I just want to be clear, by the way, I feel great. My masseuse told me that my body is actually doing pretty well and that I need to keep doing yoga. So the answer here is that the more you speak on the mic, the better you feel. The more powerful you become, the more power you accumulate.

[Alec Baldwin]

That's right.

[Osvaloshin]

Over the course of this. But I think it's been a very. It's been my favorite CES ever. And Phil at this point has been to eight with me. This is the eighth.

[Phil Broughton]

Yep.

[Osvaloshin]

And I think what was really fun about it, other than the fact that I got to just do a weird radio show for like, 13 hours, is that it's given me a lot of hope about the tech media. Not that I was, like, black pilled or anything. Not that I was like, oh, this is all bad. But you talk to people. People at Engadget, we had three people from Nkadget or like, Max Cherney from Reuters. And all of these people who are, like, so passionate and actually rave a, they gave a shit. And they gave a shit, and they were strategic about how they gave a shit and the way they talked about it. And I think you as the listeners can kind of agree with me. It's. It's really heartening to hear others talk about this because I feel like the Bylines that some people are under, they kind of rob them of that passion.

[Phil Broughton]

Yeah. Actually, some of the best talks. Talks. Interviews for our reporters that came to visit to talk about the things where you. I'm not going to say you crowbar'd out of them for. Tell me the best thing you saw, the thing that made you happiest when you were on the floor. The thing they saw that invariably made all of them happiest seemed to be when they found a presenter on the floor with a booth who also gave a shit.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah.

[Phil Broughton]

So it's not. People do love tech.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah.

[Phil Broughton]

If you have come here and you hate what you're offering, we're gonna notice.

[Osvaloshin]

And we're gonna talk about it, and.

[Phil Broughton]

We will talk about it. But we love tech. Yeah. If you're selling it, you need to love tech.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

And I think it's easy to give in to the kind of cynicism at the moment because the people run in the tech industry. I know, Ed, you feel this strongly. It's like the people running it don't give a shit about tech. Mark Zuckerberg doesn't give a shit about Facebook. He's talking about how, oh, yeah, we need more masculine energy.

[Phil Broughton]

Masculine.

[Osvaloshin]

Masculine.

[Alec Baldwin]

I'm sure he's pushing masculine down their throats.

[Phil Broughton]

Definitely would, but.

[Osvaloshin]

And it's just sad because it's this kind of repressed, toxic masculinity where it's about dominance, even though his platform only dominates by being a monopoly of sorts. It's just very sad. And I realized we've been very male weighted this week. It's like it's been a positive masculine experience. We've had good friendships here, but also just people of all genders who have been here have had a great time because it's been about hanging out and actually talking about the stuff that intrigued or made you happy or made you very angry. Of course. And I think that it's cool that we got to encapsulate that. It feels like collecting years of CES into one.

[Phil Broughton]

Yeah. So traditionally, everyone who's come to get a drink, I've always asked them, tell me the thing that scared you. Tell me the thing that you thought was dangerous to see if I needed to call the fire marshal, or more likely, in the case of this show, drop a line to the fda. But the thing that I had never asked, and I'm glad you were asking everyone on the podcast, is what made you excited, what made you happy? Because that's something I never did. And I realized that may have been not great energy I was bringing to the bar in past years.

[Osvaloshin]

I think within the. And as the real Ed heads know, the real Zitron Law people, they'll know. But the previous form of this was a PRFM thing. Me, my guy Kevin, what we come out here, we'd have journos over, wouldn't do any pitching, but we'd have them in and have a good laugh with this. It felt like we were actually building something cool. And so, Ed, you had fun, right? Mm, yeah. Did you actually like finding and it's okay if the answer is no, did you actually find anything that like gave you any hope?

[Alec Baldwin]

No.

[Osvaloshin]

But talk to me about that because there's nothing wrong with that answer. It's just.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

What was that?

[Alec Baldwin]

I mean, I think, you know, I am not the market demographic for a lot of these things. I have little to no interest in filling my home with gizmos, gadgets or toys. I'm not really also, as a result of that, in need of souping up the grid in my home, the appliances, adding smart layers to them. I'm not too interested in healthcare management. I mean, most of the things that I like and I'm interested in are things that like, I can make myself hands on, don't really require the intervention of smart or algorithmic enabled devices, WI.

[Osvaloshin]

Fi, various apps and such, you know.

[Alec Baldwin]

And so on that front, I'm not too interested. And then there's the other, you know, there's the part of me that though, is very interested in tech, just to like, see what is being developed and offered to other people, especially people who are in need of things, people who are disabled, people who are makers, people are inventors and are just interested in creating something and offering it to other people. Cool. But I think CES is also not the place for me to find hope in that because of how much of the tech either simply does not exist or is in a prototype form that, as I talk to more people, is synonymous with perpetual delay and at times not even like a. Not even a release or release in a pair back form. So I feel like it's more. So I come here, I didn't come here looking for magic. I am surprised by how much offered. Just did not connect with me.

[Osvaloshin]

Right. Cause you weren't coming in here just as a pure hater when we talked about this Rich and that you were like, I don't know.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, I literally don't know.

[Osvaloshin]

Shook me up.

[Alec Baldwin]

Like, you know, I was like. I was like, okay, is the CS how much of CES Is like, here's an actual product I can pick up, try and how much of it is like we are selling so that another business can notice and buy it from us or an investor can back us.

[Osvaloshin]

Right.

[Alec Baldwin]

And so learning that the division and the amount in which any many of these tech products fell or the category in which many of these tech products fell was interesting. I mean, the best part was for me, just like conversations with people as a chance to both reflect on what we were being seen or what we were being shown and what we saw on the floor and what had been seen by other writers. And also just talking about the tech industry and media coverage in general, I feel like that was the part that actually, I think analogously gave hope in the sense that it's affirming to hear other people, even if they are excited about things that I'm not, talk about the limitations of the shortcomings of something that, you know, when I, when I was presented it as an object, felt like something that was like a staple in the industry that everyone loved and came to and understood, had its own integral role that was not to be scrutinized too much.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, you know, it's a weird show as well, I imagine, for the first time, because it's like, when you don't know this format, this place is kind of insane. Just to map this out for the listeners. So we're in the Venetian. So we have one of the best places to be as far as the regular show goes in that we have a hotel, the Venetian, that has the Connected Sands Expo center, which is now called the Venetian Expo Center. This is where a chunk of it is. Then to get to the lvcc, you have to either take an Uber and then walk a mile. When your Uber guy goes, I'm not dri. I'm not going to wait, man. It's going to be two hours. You then walk probably a quarter of a mile to a door, and at that point you realize it's the wrong door. So you have to then walk another probably 0.1 miles to the badge person who will then tell you, now you mate, it's the other badge person inside you then. So at this point, you spent like an hour and a half getting there, and now you can get your badge from other places. So perhaps you arrived with it. Well, now you can walk through, like, what's probably about three miles of walking a day, just minimum in the main hall just to.

[Phil Broughton]

No, it's three miles of walking just to get to it. And then.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, okay, but I Mean, like, just spending the day in there. And so after this, you just see, like, either the largest television or the biggest lie, depending on the room you're in. And it's. I imagine it's kind of strange for me. I think I'm just kind of numb to it at this point.

[Phil Broughton]

Do you remember the advice I gave you for? You asked. You've been. You've done this before. Phil, what should I go look for in a. I haven't done this in a while, but just one of those. When you see the hall of TVs, unless you really want that, know that you've. This is nothing but that, keep moving through to look for something else. Because a giant TV is a giant tv, and we've talked about a human who exists only to wave behind the transparent one. But take us back to ergonomics. The thing that Robert Evans said to me at the bar for the best thing about the TV pavilion was not the TVs, but the incredibly cushy floor so that he could actually rest his feet for a moment.

[Osvaloshin]

The pile carpet is pretty sweet, but just to give you an idea, if you have never done this before, a.

[Alec Baldwin]

Good chunk of it feels like being in a Best Buy on Black Friday.

[Osvaloshin]

Yes. That's actually it. But if no one's shopping, they're just loitering.

[Phil Broughton]

Yes.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

And it's so weird as well. But I wouldn't have done it with anyone else. It's just interesting to see CES bounce off of someone, not because they're not trying, but because they've realized the edifice of ces, which is, hey, check out all the stuff we won't make.

[Alec Baldwin]

I would have driven a Tesla off the bridge if I had to come here myself.

[Osvaloshin]

With, like, an outlet. Yeah. You know, like a real person.

[Alec Baldwin]

Oh, my God. Especially because the mode of engagement would be much more different. I mean, here I felt like I got the chance to kind of drift around, and each day I felt like I was focusing on a different part of the floor based on what I did or didn't get to do, based on conversations I had with people. And they're like, oh, I actually was really interested in this. And I think coming in with less preparation than an outlet might have had for me, in the sense that, like, wasn't honed in and hunting for and prepping over how to think about and how to engage with the fintech. It was more like I stumbled upon them. Oh, what a pleasant surprise. Oh, they're talking about AI agents. Let's talk for a Little bit.

[Osvaloshin]

Right.

[Alec Baldwin]

It felt like I got to experience it both as maybe a consumer might, and also a bit as in my capacity as someone who's wondering, okay, if the presentation of this is for the consumer, then if you're walking around in it and you happen to know a bit about the industry or various products, what would you think about it? If your intention is not just to report it back to consumers so that they can get a repackaged form of what's being presented here.

[Phil Broughton]

This is one of the things I was really excited to hear yesterday from Sherilyn about the process that Engadget does for how they prepare to go to the show, which it's fun with clean eyes to have none of that, just to encounter it face first, smack into the wall. But that process from Engadget, very cool. I had no idea. And I'm happy I heard it.

[Osvaloshin]

And I'm happy that the listeners heard it as well. Because going back to the black pill thing, it's very easy to get cynical about the tech media. And I have been extremely critical of the tech media. But then you look at the people we've brought in. We had Carl Chenard from Las Vegas sun, for example. Such a delightful surprise. That guy, young guy, but also getting into the labor stuff. The fact you've got someone who writes about tech because they're a reporter, not because they're a tech reporter. But then you look at Engadget, a place that people might say, I was just a gadget blog. And they actually really tried. And it's interesting to see that there's so much personality in the tech media that just. We had no. I really. I knew some of these people, but I didn't know how bad they cook. A lot of them are like, all. We didn't have one bum guest.

[Phil Broughton]

Also, in terms of the eight years we've done, this, from my point of view, in terms of providing respite to journalists, indeed, it's catching it. Journalists getting respite in the suite for a chance to breathe and sit. For the first time in all these years, I had people one saying, I'm so happy to be back. I'm so happy to get another drink for you. The five years of COVID I've missed you.

[Osvaloshin]

Aw.

[Phil Broughton]

And also Gare, just relaxed.

[Osvaloshin]

And Gare, I just want to say again, Gare Davis is just insanely talented. I am so happy we got them on so many episodes.

[Phil Broughton]

I saw Gara's fairly high energy. You might have noticed from some podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

I adore it.

[Phil Broughton]

But I watched Gar just sort of take a breath and slump into a chair for a moment. They could be off.

[Osvaloshin]

And I think that's nice. And I think of better Offline is such a bizarre podcast. Looking at Mattasowski's like, yeah, it is. My producer, I've heard. Wonderful. Matasalski. It's funny. This show started off as a joke and then it became something. No, it started off as a thing where I was talking about how pissed off I was about Wet Brothers, like the Winklevoss's or the rot economy and everything.

[Alec Baldwin]

But as we get the Blowjob brothers.

[Osvaloshin]

Well, well, well, if it isn't the Winklevoss brothers. But it's. It's interesting how it's grown because I've been thinking about CES quite literally for a year. So Robert Gare and I were sitting around at Spago, where we're actually going tonight. Take my boys out. Gotta treat the boys. That's the one thing. Like, I'm lucky enough to have this podcast. I've been treating them, treating everyone. It's lovely. But in all seriousness, I was sitting there with Robin and Gare and just kind of like slightly worried both about the podcast, but I got that done. We don't need to belabor that. I really should stop repeating that, in fact. Anyway, I sat there, I'm like, shit, how am I gonna do CES and I spent the year, and Phil and I have talked about this many, many, many times. And the thing that I think that we needed to do, which I think we mostly did, was not just be like, hey, here's all the shit that you see at the show, you hogs. But also try and capture, even though people kind of hate it, try and capture the fact that there is a week long thing in the tech media where everyone comes to one place, kind of parties together, then does journalism, ostensibly. But like, there's this whole thing that's been virtually uncovered. It's just, it's. This is like Aspen for tech media, except you really. I don't think as many dark thoughts when I think of it. And it's. And I think we successfully got that. And listeners, I would love to hear your feedback. You've been quite generous with it so far. 99% of it loved it, 1% calmed down, but it's in. I think we have successfully captured, Phil, what we have always captured here, which is, hey, here's just one fucking place you can sit down and like, try and like process the things you have been hit with over the last week.

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, yeah. Also, I just remembered it as I took a sip of black blood, and energy courses through me again. I want to take a moment to give special thanks to someone who almost never gets thanked, that has made sure that this suite worked.

[Osvaloshin]

Mothers, give it up.

[Phil Broughton]

Thanks, mom. But also, 28th floor housekeeping staff at the Venetian. Venetian, big up. Particularly Alice. Alice, you have made sure that I've been able to keep the filthy pigsty that I keep making of the place and people walking through look nice. I could not have done this without you, Alice.

[Osvaloshin]

Thank you, Alice.

[Alec Baldwin]

Is that who wrote the note?

[Osvaloshin]

No, that was not okay. No, there was a note in here that said, they're all dead. Ed. Run. And that would be Robert Evans, the trickster God that I work for. Mr. Mxyzpt.

[Phil Broughton]

Mr. World.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, he's the. Actually, yes, Robert is Mr. World. Exactly. Like a Crispin Glover figure that shows up to be, like, podcast time.

[Phil Broughton]

Now. Alice is the one who gave me the extra ice bucket. Alice gave the welcome note to this room.

[Alec Baldwin]

Okay. Cause it said. Cause I noticed said Alice underneath that.

[Phil Broughton]

That's because I wrote her name down to make sure I did not forget.

[Alec Baldwin]

Right.

[Osvaloshin]

Please don't kill me, Alice. But in all seriousness, no, the Venetian's been lovely. It's been so weird as well. Just, like, standing up this thing. I don't know if everyone listening to this has looked at my Instagram or my blue sky. I hope you have, because I need attention. But also, I want you to know how great this setup has been. We've had this recessed area in the Venetian, and honestly, it's just been extremely heartening for two reasons. One, having some solidarity in this fucking tech media. It has been such a rough year for so many people. 2024 was an insane year. But also right now, the tech media feels, and I say this having done a thing where I yelled at them, but Lord Almighty, I've never seen less solidarity. But I kind of saw it this week. Everyone seemed happy to see each other when they got on the mic together. They were generous with their time. They were excited to vibe off of each other. There was no, like, vacuous competitiveness or anything like that. Everyone was so giving with their time, not just with me, but with each other. They were shooting the shit, and they were happy to see each other. It was great. And I think that this is a time where, as things get a bit rough with big tech and within society, this is the time to pull together. And I'm happy that whatever this week has been, which is insane by the way, just the entire idea. I hope that that has created that and I hope that you, the listener, have heard that and, and I was about to say appreciated that. I don't mean it like that. I mean, I hope you've got that vibe. Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered who or what was.

[Phil Broughton]

Flying around up there?

[Osvaloshin]

We've seen planes, helicopters, hot air balloons, and birds. But what if there's something else, something much more ominous that appears under the COVID of night? Silent, unseen, watching. They may be right above your car late one night as you cruise down the road. Or look like mysterious lights hovering above your home. Drones. Or are they? We used the word drone because it.

[Phil Broughton]

Was comfortable to other people.

[Osvaloshin]

One minute was there and one minute it wasn't.

[Alec Baldwin]

Oh, that is beyond creepy.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you feel like this drone was targeting you specifically?

[Phil Broughton]

Yes, absolutely.

[Osvaloshin]

Listen to Obscurum Invasion of the Drones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued. And I'm Cara Price, the other new.

[Phil Broughton]

Host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Osvaloshin]

And often on Tech Stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology. One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a complex reality. How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?

[Phil Broughton]

Oz and I will cut through the.

[Osvaloshin]

Noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you.

[Phil Broughton]

Understand how tech is changing our world.

[Osvaloshin]

And what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Phil Broughton]

So join us.

[Osvaloshin]

Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping?

[Phil Broughton]

Irreversible lung damage serious.

[Osvaloshin]

1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by The American Lung association and the AD Council. Welcome.

[Alec Baldwin]

My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium.

[Osvaloshin]

And the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting.

[Alec Baldwin]

With deceased loved ones, it's about learning.

[Osvaloshin]

Through them and their new perspective. Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast. Whoa.

[Phil Broughton]

My lights in my living room just flickered. I'm a little nervous.

[Alec Baldwin]

I'm excited.

[Osvaloshin]

I'm excited nervous.

[Phil Broughton]

You know, I'm a very spiritual person, so I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Osvaloshin]

That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother, Abuela, and she gave me a lot of really good advice that I'm gonna have to really think about. Wow. Okay. That's crazy. Yes, that is accurate. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Mel Reid, LPGA Tour winner and six time ladies European tour winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host. You forgot to say all my Miss America, by the way. And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for the dads, Brads and chads. Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course.

[Phil Broughton]

We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle, we, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.

[Osvaloshin]

So if you want to keep up with us, and here is yap, tune into our new podcast, listen to Quiet Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Phil Broughton]

So you. You've talked about the vibe, people together here talking and happy. So effectively I am with the bar. I am running the green room for what you're getting to hear over here. When people leave here and the next crew rotates in for your listening pleasure, the old crew does not immediately bolt for the door. They actually sat down with each other and enjoyed each other's time.

[Osvaloshin]

I did notice that. And it's cool when we like cycle out, people like Ed like, you go back to have a chat with them, and I realize, like, you've been, like, somewhat unimpressed with the actual stuff, but you seem to have had a good time with everyone.

[Alec Baldwin]

Oh, yeah, I had a great time with everyone.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah.

[Alec Baldwin]

Had a great time with the people. Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

And I think that it's. So it's about the people, but it kind of is like, I'm here to see the doodads, the gizmos, the apps. But, no, it's to pull together the tech media to have a conversation with people and try and actually talk about what happens here. Because as I was kind of getting earlier, this place, like Vegas, is a fascinating place in and of itself, but so is ces. Even if the stuff is kind of the same as last year, even capturing that mood is kind of important. And bringing you fresh was. I'm really happy.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah. And I'm really happy you brought me in. I mean, this was definitely an imprint experience. It's definitely left its mark on me.

[Phil Broughton]

Would you have even dreamed, coming into the. Getting on a plane, coming to Las Vegas, that you were about to meet the Crit readers for two of your favorite authors?

[Alec Baldwin]

No. What a crazy. Yeah. That was such a wild turn of events for listeners don't know. They are. Father Gabriel and Phil are readers for Christopher Ricasino and Charles Strauss, who are two of my favorite writers right now. Charles Strauss does sci fi. Christopher Rock Casino is doing a science fantasy series, Sun Eater, which you should definitely check out if you are interested in Romans in space. Yes, space Romans that are in the deconstruction of Dune and Star wars. And also without, like, the turgid prose of foundation, the foundation series.

[Phil Broughton]

These are the happy surprises that happen when you just sit down, start talking.

[Osvaloshin]

There was a great moment where Robert Evans and Father Gabriel And Ed Ongueso Jr. Were sitting around for, like, 20 straight minutes. And they were having the. They were like, yeah, all but Hegel. And they were like, no naming all these philosophers. And I was just sitting there, and I think I understand what Babu, my cat, feels like when I'm talking to him, because I was just looking at it, just like, wow, I know these names, but they're connecting them in ways that clearly involve knowledge. And then after 20 minutes, I just say, is this what it's like? What's it like being smart? Anyway, that's the experience I bring to the Sweep. But honestly, it's been kind of fun watching everyone just talk. I want this to be yes. And I want you, the listener, to be pulled into this and to kind of feel this, because putting aside the very obvious and well documented side of CES of the. It's full of shit that never goes anywhere and everyone's kind of annoyed. The tech in.

[Phil Broughton]

It's full of people.

[Osvaloshin]

It is also full of people. Sorry, sorry, didn't mean to bore you with that. Right.

[Alec Baldwin]

No, no, no. I'm.

[Osvaloshin]

Ed is well drank and well fed, as we all are, but also we have had five straight days of just like, our brains being punished.

[Phil Broughton]

No, really, I think this might be massage recovery. All the tension that's been holding me together, they removed it. And I'm feeling real good.

[Alec Baldwin]

I've been rubbing my stomach for five hours and I was rubbing it for five hours.

[Osvaloshin]

I thought you were just accumulating wealth.

[Alec Baldwin]

I ran to this, like the Buddha booth. I mean, I ran to the suite last night because I was gonna. Because I need.

[Osvaloshin]

No, no.

[Phil Broughton]

There was a crisis and it had to be addressed.

[Osvaloshin]

Moving on. We're talking about how nice the solidarity here is.

[Alec Baldwin]

We don't know.

[Osvaloshin]

No, no, no, no.

[Alec Baldwin]

There was solidarity there. I will not allow.

[Osvaloshin]

I was just about to do a whole thing about how, like, we've had a bunch. Bunch of guys in a suite and I think for the most part we've done good, positive masculinity without talking too much about our bowel movements.

[Phil Broughton]

No one got in his way.

[Osvaloshin]

We talked. And then the beginning with the.

[Alec Baldwin]

I'm being open and vulnerable.

[Osvaloshin]

I'm glad that we got Reuters's quotation on the horny check, like. But also, I'm tired of people on the Reddit asking to. Well, for one. But I think for the most part we've. I hope we've shown like a bunch of guys hanging out, have, don't. Don't have to be like nasty assholes. We've not been tearing each other down. And I want this because this industry is very male dominated and something we do want to do better next year is I want more women in this. More diverse voices like this thing. And I know some of you have brought this up and it's a fair criticism. We had. We really only had like three. One woman on there and it's not enough. And so we're going to do a much better job next year. And we've already, like, making plans for this 20, 26. We are going to improve this show on that level. But also I think we are going to try and in as much as we can, sync up on coverage with these outlets and actually bring them in because the big thing Is better. Offline's pretty big now. I can't even say how big because I am told not to, but it's big. We have a real audience now. And the thing I think we can do with this show is, first of all, show you, the wonderful listener, what's going on in the tech industry. And what's going on in the tech industry is not just the thing you see on the page. Even people have criticized those. People behind the byline are held by these restraints of editorial bullshit. But on top of that, there's only so much you can do if you're, like, writing about laptop, how much we know about that person. So I want this show to be that now. And when it comes to things like ces, I don't know where else I go. I'm not going to South By. No, yeah, you will.

[Alec Baldwin]

You gotta do it. You gotta see how crypto's taking it over.

[Osvaloshin]

I don't want to. That sounds awful.

[Alec Baldwin]

It is awful.

[Osvaloshin]

My friends aren't there. It's the people who.

[Alec Baldwin]

Molly White will go, maybe Molly White's.

[Osvaloshin]

Great, but I would rather just, like, fly to Boston or whatever.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

But nevertheless, this show is important to the tech industry.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

And yet it's completely uncovered what actually happens here. There's a lot of stuff about this robot does this, and this vacuum has an arm now, but not the actual vibe, not the actual feel. And it's interesting to finally capture that and put it in a bottle.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, no, that's interesting because when I was trying to look over coverage to get a sense of what to expect, it really was. It was missing talking about past products and not, like, actual morale, energy, enthusiasm.

[Phil Broughton]

Or lack thereof, impact to larger society and programs as well.

[Osvaloshin]

But even then, the tech industry and the tech media, there's full of these weird, wonderful people we've had all week. And I feel like. And if you, the listener, disagree with this, please let me know. But it feels like people have responded really well to just hearing the people behind these bylines and actually talking about this and that.

[Phil Broughton]

Those people got a chance to expand on what they saw and what they felt in a way maybe they've been constrained from doing for a while.

[Osvaloshin]

And not even for malevolent reasons. It's just that if you are writing a gadget blog and you write about gadgets, there's not really much space for editorializing. Someone we didn't get on was Michael Fisher, one of my favorite YouTubers, and he has done a really good job of expanding his YouTube. I sound 100 years old. He's got one of those YouTube channels with the videos now.

[Phil Broughton]

YouTubers.

[Osvaloshin]

One of the light boxes captures his form. But he was here. Sadly missed him. Gonna see him for dinner, I think next week. Nevertheless, he has done a really good thing of explaining kind of the ephemera around his travel, how like, travel weighs upon him, how there are emotional contexts to places he goes, the societal parts. He did a great thing where he was in India talking about the smog, for example. You can do more with this medium. And I think that there's so much more interesting things that we could do even with this show. Because let's be honest, you've got. I don't actually know how many actual reporters are here because the list includes every single possible person who could ever mention words. But I would say there's at least 100 members of the tech media here, like dyed in the wool, actual tech media. And the fact is, there's in a damn place where other than like Twitter and Blue sky, where they're actually. You're actually able to get to know these people. I want Better offline to be that on some level, it's not just gonna be that. It's not just the kind of mixer stuff, but I think it's a helpful function of what the show could be in the future.

[Phil Broughton]

So something I. While I don't go to the floor cause I'm bartending, something that I do get to do at DEFCON and at Photonics west is watching for governmental entities that are actually attending the show as well. I mean, it's a tradition at DEF CON to play the game, spot the narc. Which is if you can find the member of a given government agency and they've started playing with it and actually having official booths and saying, can you guess which agency I work for? And if you do, they'll give you a challenge coin or a pin. But conversely, the DEFCON people will give them a shirt for the narc to wear. But our governmental agencies, our regulators are actually just like me, interested in what's coming that I should be prepared for.

[Osvaloshin]

Right.

[Phil Broughton]

I like finding them and seeing what are you looking for?

[Osvaloshin]

Right.

[Phil Broughton]

If I could find someone willing to represent their agency that.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, talk to us. No feds inside here, though. We don't let them in here. I mean, I will not allow, like, we're not having the government agencies in here. I will not. You can talk to them outside, but if you're a member of the feds, please don't come to my show. I don't Think that's going to be fun? No, no. If they turn up, I'm gonna have a word with them and then say, please don't hurt me. Please don't kick me out.

[Phil Broughton]

Well, actually, the hard part is the ones that are actually doing the things that are of interest, they can't talk. They're constrained by a public affairs office.

[Osvaloshin]

Perfect. Wonderful. Then they have no reason to be here, then.

[Phil Broughton]

But their interest is actually the public interest.

[Osvaloshin]

You should listen to the show then.

[Phil Broughton]

I. They do well and are generally happy.

[Osvaloshin]

Okay, I hope they are, because the ones I talked to, I really don't want to get a put in the gulag. But Putting aside the FBI's clearly active interest in me, that's a great phrase to say out loud. I do want this place to be without the feds, an actual place where journalists come. And I know that there are some people have reached out to me and they've said they. They weren't able to make it and such. We're going to remove. We're going to move stuff around next year. I want to make sure there's more room for people. And Mr. Ongueso Jr. Sounds like he will come back.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, I would love to.

[Osvaloshin]

And Mr. Roth will as well. I will be here, and Phil is stuck with me. But I think the thing I want to do differently as well is I want to really plan out the groups because, and I must be honest to the listeners, how much of this came together in real time. But also, I think you'll indulge me, because what an insane thing I did here. Like, this has been very crazy. I cannot believe how well it worked, and it's thanks to you guys and of course, our producer Mattisowski, who built this whole setup. But it's interesting because something like this could actually be useful for people to understand the mechanisms of power within tech, because I want people to realize how much of it's bullshit. Sure, but how You've got journalists coming out here who are actually trying to find a way to cover it within the boundaries of journalism, which can be quite difficult because most people can't come on here and say, yeah, most of the shit I saw was bullshit, and that was broken. And this is shit. Not necessarily because of the byline, but also, how do you write that story? How do you actually put that together? How do you actually say CES was full of dog shit?

[Phil Broughton]

And please read the rest of my words after this.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, and I'll tell you the way you don't do that. Being sponsored by Delta Airlines.

[Alec Baldwin]

I will.

[Osvaloshin]

I will voice my displeasure about Mr. Nilay, Mr. Nilay Patel.

[Phil Broughton]

He is a dirty, dirty man.

[Osvaloshin]

Some management questions aside, Nilay had a chance to do something interesting at ces, and somehow I did the more interesting thing, which is disappointing. But also, if you're being interviewed by the CEO of Delta Vacations, what are you doing like. Or, sorry, you're interviewing them to what end? To what point? And I feel like the people covering this show have got such a shit deal. But the ones with the largest microphones other than my own don't seem to be.

[Phil Broughton]

Full disclosure, I, as a Platinum medallion member for Delta, man, those are the emails that delete the fastest.

[Osvaloshin]

It's just frustrating because people at the Verge, and I'm not attacking the writers there because Victoria's son was amazing on this.

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

It feels like the people covering this show, some of them have potentially given up a little. The Verge should not have a live show where the summation of it starts with a fucking interview with the CEO of the worst part of the Delta.

[Phil Broughton]

Experience, the mini CEO.

[Osvaloshin]

And I saw people covering the Delta stuff just blandly, and it's like.

[Alec Baldwin]

Did you check out the interview? What was the interview itself?

[Osvaloshin]

I have not listened to the Verge cast in some time.

[Phil Broughton]

Yeah, I'm not sure how you can cover that. Excitedly.

[Osvaloshin]

I think that. No, actually, let me check my notes. I did listen. It was. See, it was James Ty Klett, the CEO of Lockheed Martin, and said that, I love the Verge. It's my favorite publication. And then they were surprisingly joined by Hanwha chairman Sungyoon Kim, who said how the Verge is the best place to find out about bombs. That is all a joke. I apologize. But nevertheless, I thought you were serious. I've had that written down for a week. It's just frustrating because it's like, Nilay Patel, he can do a better job. And honestly, there could be better things done at ces. The thing we've proven in the last week, not trying to pat myself on the back or anything, but I don't even need to say that the people who've come on have been really interesting, and I think there's more that we can do. I don't even know whether to call myself part of the tech media. I'm on a PR firm. During the day, I write a newsletter where I regularly make typos that really shouldn't be there. I just. I don't know, man. But nevertheless, it's like there is more to be done and there's more to be done in the next year. And I think the way everyone needs to go right now is this move towards the question we've been asking all week, which is why does this have to exist? Who is it for? Why is why. And I think Ed, your frustration with this place is that question is so often not answerable somehow.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah, deeply so I feel like. Or it is a constructed individual that's not necessarily real as the tech industry is like so fond of.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, they're solving for an imaginary person.

[Phil Broughton]

Or that search for an investor. Yeah, the product is them.

[Alec Baldwin]

I mean, I think, you know, the tech industry has gotten better in the years of constructing or constructing the image that there is the person that wants what they are offering. I mean, I think the most recent example of this that was pretty poignant was the construction of the crypto voter as facilitated by Fairshake and their pretty massive lobbying campaign to punish any candidate that seemed remotely anti crypto to resounding success. I think like almost like a 90 plus percent hit rate for winning races where they put up ads against anti crypto or ostensibly anti crypto or insufficiently pro crypto candidates.

[Phil Broughton]

That latter one is the really dirty one. You don't love us enough. Kiss the boot.

[Osvaloshin]

The imaginary customer and the imaginary customer.

[Alec Baldwin]

There is this idea of a crypto voter. Someone who is motivated by a desire to have a safe home for their crypto assets. They want to bank with. They want it in a, in a bank that they would typically use. They want their dollars to be more easily transferable between or to these things. Right. They want to have more assets that can be, you know, that they can trade in their dollars or their tokens for. Right. And I think similarly sometimes when I see, you know, I think about like especially the global pavilion for crypto. Right. Where it's like these people are sitting here talking about how, you know, for your brand, one way to increase its authenticity as Objectify, the company said, is to offer limited edition goods that will add an air of rarity to your brand.

[Osvaloshin]

Like a non fungible token of some sort.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah, they're all tokens. Right. And you know, these. The idea here is when also when you listen to them closely, they're not saying, like they're not actually saying there's any use value. What they're saying is that we realized we have a use case for justifying our service, which is that you can make it more your thing, more exclusive in partnership with us if you cut us a fee and you generate a useless token.

[Osvaloshin]

Right.

[Alec Baldwin]

I feel like there Is a lot of this where solution in search of a problem or a business in search of an opportunity to extract a fee.

[Osvaloshin]

Rather than solving a need.

[Phil Broughton]

Someone once asked me if I was willing to do limited NFT coded release labels on Black Blood of the Earth bottles so they could have. Someone could have their very own NFT run of black Blood. And that would be an email deleted.

[Osvaloshin]

That would be so funny. I would take such pleasure in watching you enter the blockchain.

[Phil Broughton]

That was the point they wanted. Black block, block, blockchain, coffee block.

[Osvaloshin]

Blood of the Earth.

[Phil Broughton]

I hate you.

[Osvaloshin]

So, Ed, slightly different, Slightly different direction. Do you actually like any technology? I don't mean this in like a cynic. You seem to enjoy your phone and such. Like you enjoy connecting with people.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, I mean, I like my phone, computers, screens, but most things I'm just like, I'm not really.

[Phil Broughton]

Trains are cool.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, trains are cool. I mean, if we're talking about, for example, non digitally mediated. I mean, of course we're talking about digitally mediated. I really have to be because I'm not interested in like productivity hacks or.

[Osvaloshin]

Saving time as a regular person.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah. You know, for me, like, it's like the things I'm interested in, software and programs, you know, that have helped me, I'm interested sometimes in, you know, I have a friend who I, you know, I have a friend who I learned coding with, you know, what is in there, like maybe 10 years ago, I.

[Osvaloshin]

What in like.

[Alec Baldwin]

Well, I don't talk about it because I don't like doing it because I don't really care for much and because the reason I don't talk about it is because it's always fun when I have. When a tech person gets a little mad at me and is like, why is this guy who doesn't even code? And I'm like, oh, what about me makes you think I can't code?

[Osvaloshin]

Please tell me that's cool though.

[Alec Baldwin]

So, you know, especially with the more recent wave of tools, of Generative Tools for coding supplements. I mean, you know, I've kind of been inspired by like writing from like Brian Eno and you have getting more as I have to try and create like, small applications that help us learn other languages because I've been trying to learn Mandarin for a long time. Right. You know, and so stuff like this is fun and interesting, like little trinkets, little, little, you know, short desktop apps or, you know, small, little programs that help me in my daily life. But I don't. I'm not really interested in like some Overhaul.

[Osvaloshin]

It feels like what you're describing is the purest form of technology, which is why do we use the computer to connect with people or connect with ourselves a bit more? To actually truly love what we want to do more to enhance ourselves? Because the reason I'm asking these questions is because there are some fucking idiots I'm just going to skip to that part who would just be like, well, it's just a hater.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

And I've got the same thing as an Ed who is hating.

[Phil Broughton]

Otherwise, can I say a terrifying.

[Osvaloshin]

Let him finish his point and then we'll get to you.

[Alec Baldwin]

Don't worry, I am a hater in that I think that a lot of times the greatest haters love.

[Osvaloshin]

Anyway. Please continue.

[Alec Baldwin]

When someone is talking to me or trying to convince me to integrate some algorithm or digital program into my life, what they're usually talking about is a way to like offload some of the cognitive burden and not actually cut through a stupid task or to not come up. For example, like, you know, me and my friend, we've, you know, Evgeny Morozov is an inspiration for this, where he talks about, in one of his essays about how he uses generative tools to try to create a group of language programs so that he'll try to talk in another language or answer questions in another language. And then based on the weaknesses, it will generate kind of questions and exams and stories that will test what he has shown a deficiency in, like elements.

[Osvaloshin]

Of how one structures a sentence, maybe.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah. Grammar, sentence structure, ambiguities of descriptive language. I mean, and this is stuff that interests us more than the way in which we typically have been trying to learn the languages, especially because I'm trying to do Swahili as well. So Swahili and Mandarin and he's doing Spanish and Pashtun. And so it's like there are a lot of the apps that are offered and a lot of the programs, a lot of the methods, we simply either don't have the time to do them or the, the gamification that's presented is bullshit, duolingo style, you know, so if you can figure out a way to do it that is more closer, resembling how a human to human interaction does it, without trying to convince me that I need to offload onto some sort of platform, enter some ecosystem, sure, I'm interested, right? But most of the time you have to make the case and it has to be a convincing case for why an algorithm needs to be introduced into something that I'm interested in using. And I Think that most of the times if you actually spend time talking with the people about it and interrogating it, it doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Osvaloshin]

Right?

[Phil Broughton]

This is where solving the language problem and the human interaction level. This is where I have to say the terrifying words. I love Uber because it did one thing that they are not proud of that they do not tout as a thing they can do. In general, Uber is toxin to regulated ride environments. It destroys taxi networks, never mind adoption of technology that taxis should have done to improve service. Uber obliterates that good ecosystem. However, in unregulated markets or ones that are highly corrupt and barter based. Where? I don't know.

[Osvaloshin]

Such as?

[Phil Broughton]

Such as Ukraine and most of Eastern Europe.

[Osvaloshin]

Now, your experience with this was pre war though, right?

[Phil Broughton]

It was pre war in Kyiv. I do not speak Ukrainian, although my feeble language skills of I speak English, I have technical Spanish, I can have commerce Spanish. But don't ask me to talk about.

[Osvaloshin]

Poetry if you make two Spanishes. I was doing a callback to another. Anyway, continue.

[Phil Broughton]

But when I got done playing in the Great Patriotic War Museum and it was snowing, the first snow of the season in Kyiv and I did not feel like doing my normal thing of walking all the way across the city just to enjoy and absorb the city and on international data rates, I downloaded Uber on the principle of I just want to get back to my hotel. Uber was able to, within its app, allow me to arrange a ride. Negotiate. Well, I didn't even negotiate set price.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah, they're negotiating for you negotiated for.

[Phil Broughton]

Me for a set price that is firm and get my destination correct with a driver. Neither of us spoke each other's language and it was seamless. That is a thing they never tout, they are not proud of, but they do everywhere in the world. And with time, I did that in 2016. Their language translation on either end of their app has only gotten better.

[Osvaloshin]

But the problem is that you're completely right, except for the fact that Uber also had a bigger opportunity that he didn't do, which was if they'd have grown sustainably and set real labor rates and demanded benefits, Uber could probably be a $15 trillion company.

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, you mean actually be profitable?

[Osvaloshin]

No, I mean beyond that. If Uber had slowly grown and done it more than minimum wage and used their scale to actually commit themselves to getting real benefits rates for employees and grown like that, they could have actually grown to be probably the largest employer in the world. In the world. And actually giving people benefits. So they chose the other and what sucks is that the reason they did what you just described, which is genuinely good, is so that they could find new people that spoke other languages to extract from.

[Phil Broughton]

That was the first time I called an Uber of my own.

[Osvaloshin]

I remember. And it sucks that they didn't do it to make sure that you could do the thing you did.

[Phil Broughton]

It was just like we had to get that extraction.

[Osvaloshin]

It fucking sucks.

[Phil Broughton]

It makes me mad. With the sign of the simultaneous, you made a human experience I couldn't have otherwise had.

[Osvaloshin]

But is this not ces? A lot of ideas that are made up that could. It could be for ostensibly good reasons, but are really done for the investor.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

For the theoretical customer.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

Ultimately, everything we're describing that's good here is about actually connecting the smart cane.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Osvaloshin]

As glib as I might have been about it, people genuinely will find good in that.

[Phil Broughton]

I'm legit excited about that.

[Alec Baldwin]

Medical devices, these are all good. And I mean, and we've also, you know, we've talked before about how there are lots of algorithmic things that have nothing to do with the consumer that are helpful, you know, that are on the back end of helping test things or discover or do trials for various compounds. Right. As long as you don't put. I'm very skeptical of the generative tools that are being deployed for this, but more traditionally, when they're done for, this is something that's interesting. I mean, there's a host of applications that we wanted to sit down, we could talk about. But for me, the thing I don't hate, I mean, the thing I don't like, and the stuff I just kind of informs my antipathy towards, and my luddism is usually when we have a venture capital firm, a private firm, capitalized individual, a hedge fund, whatever, pushing a certain type of technology innovation, it's because they're interested in prioritizing the startup form, which itself already closes a lot of doors, because you have to adopt a certain product, you have to adopt a certain value structure so that you can pay the software tax or the cloud tax, or you have to figure out a way that you're going to organized labor so that you can have contractors and employees. And all of these limitations, there's more energy being spent on evading all the barriers to maximizing potential valuation and profitability and market share instead of the actual technological innovation itself.

[Osvaloshin]

Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered who or what was flying around up there? We've seen planes, helicopters, hot air balloons, and birds. But what if there's Something else, something much more ominous that appears under the COVID of night. Silent, unseen, watching. They may be right above your car late one night as you cruise down the road. Or look like mysterious lights hovering above your home. Drones. Or are they? We used the word drone because it.

[Phil Broughton]

Was comfortable to other people.

[Osvaloshin]

One minute was there and one minute it wasn't.

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, that is beyond creepy.

[Osvaloshin]

Do you feel like this drone was targeting you specifically?

[Phil Broughton]

Yes, absolutely.

[Osvaloshin]

Listen to Obscurum. Invasion of the Drones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvaloshin, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical, but obsessively intrigued. And I'm Cara Price, the other new.

[Phil Broughton]

Host, and I'm ready to adopt.

[Osvaloshin]

Early and often on tech Stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology. One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long enough so that people evolve into Martians. Like data is a very rough proxy for a combination complex reality. How is it possible that the world's new energy revolution can be based in this place where there's no electricity at night?

[Phil Broughton]

Oz and I will cut through the.

[Osvaloshin]

Noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you.

[Phil Broughton]

Understand how tech is changing our world.

[Osvaloshin]

And what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Phil Broughton]

So join us.

[Osvaloshin]

Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. 1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Welcome.

[Alec Baldwin]

My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium.

[Osvaloshin]

And the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting.

[Alec Baldwin]

With deceased loved ones. It's about learning through them and their new perspective.

[Osvaloshin]

Join me on the Ghost Therapy podcast.

[Alec Baldwin]

Whoa.

[Phil Broughton]

My lights in my living room just flickered. I'm a little nervous.

[Alec Baldwin]

I'm excited.

[Osvaloshin]

I'm excited nervous.

[Phil Broughton]

You know, I'm very spiritual person. So I'm like, I'm ready and open.

[Osvaloshin]

That was amazing. I feel so grateful right now. I got to speak to my great grandmother Abuela, and she gave me a lot of really good advice that I'm going to have to really think about. Wow. Okay. That's crazy. Yes, that is accurate. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast as part of the Mike With Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA Tour winner and six time ladies European tour winner. And Kira K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host. You forgot to say warm and Miss America, by the way. And we've got a new podcast, Quiet Please with Mel and Kira. We are bringing you spicy takes on sports, sports and pop culture. Some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for.

[Phil Broughton]

The dads, Brads and chads.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah. It's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course.

[Phil Broughton]

We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.

[Osvaloshin]

So if you want to keep up with us and here's Yap, tune into our new podcast. Listen to Quiet Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. So we are at the end, I'm afraid. And yesterday you got my kind of teary goodbye to everyone. And to give you an idea of what the room was like yesterday, it was full of people and everyone was yelling and it was very fun. That's where you got the yes Chef from. We have had an insanely cool crew of people, of course, led by Matt Osalski, our producer here. But we've really gone through a lot of the tech media and the thing I'll say for next year is I'm going to have more of them. We had 20 guests on this damn show, including the people in front of me as well.

[Phil Broughton]

I have more liquor to serve.

[Osvaloshin]

Indeed he does. And it's fun. It's also, it seems like the listeners and I want this to be an active conversation with you. You're on the Reddit, you email me. I love it. Please get in touch on Blue Sky. You get in touch on threads. I'm. I'm not listening. Like, I just want to be clear. Like I look down on you. Instagram DMs. Absolutely. Threads, not so much. Why? I'm a Hippogram. Anyway, this has been an amazing show and I want to hear from you. But next year we're going to be a bit more structured. But also it's probably going to be the same format. We're going to have more diverse voices and we're also going to get into more definitive subjects. I think the one thing I could have done. There are a few things I could have done better. One thing I could have is subject matter. And having subject matter experts. We have people like max journey and DaVinci Hardawar who like really knew their chips, for example. We can wrangle that coverage far more specifically. But also there was something fun about having the slop of the week just kind of wash over us. Because I wanted all of you listening do kind of get an idea of how obtuse a conference is. And I know some of you go to weird conferences and such and thus you have this experience. But Phil, thank you for being our bartender. Thank you for serving everyone. I really treasure your hard work. And let's do nine next year.

[Phil Broughton]

Hell yeah. Something I'm very proud of that I started trying to kick in. The sixth and seventh time we did this was making sure I had non alcoholic options available for people. I had more than ever available this year. And I'm glad I got to give it to people who want it.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah. Cause this is not a place where.

[Phil Broughton]

You have to drink because most people who don't drink can't drink.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah.

[Phil Broughton]

They usually feel very assed out when they go to events at conventions like this. And I want people to feel welcome.

[Osvaloshin]

And you are here. Like I don't care if you don't have any substances. Maybe you don't even have food you don't need.

[Phil Broughton]

Gas station mushrooms.

[Osvaloshin]

I was just going to say thank you, Robert, for the gas station mushrooms you brought in. I didn't take them because I don't.

[Phil Broughton]

Just eat food off the floor or gas stations.

[Osvaloshin]

I mean.

[Phil Broughton]

But it was.

[Alec Baldwin]

Got to introduce you to some of my friends.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah. I.

[Alec Baldwin]

Drug freegans, we would call some of them.

[Osvaloshin]

Okay, that's.

[Phil Broughton]

That's a new term.

[Osvaloshin]

That is a series of words that I will be unpacking for some time.

[Alec Baldwin]

But more often the pod.

[Phil Broughton]

But it was a pleasure. It's been real fun.

[Osvaloshin]

And this is kind of the. I was about to say the end of the rope. It's quite the opposite. The beginning of something cool. Because Phil and I have been doing this for so long and some of you got in touch and, like, asked. It's. This was a suite where we brought our friends in from the tech media, and now it's turned into something really cool that I look to grow and turn into something weird and fun every year. If you're a member of the tech media who was not on here listening to this, get in touch. If you're in New York, for example, we will be doing what you heard this week very regularly. Every other week, I would say get in touch. Maybe it's not the next episode, but I want a chunk of the tech media on there. I want. I want this. The tech media is full of such insanely fun and weird and wonderful voices. Tons of people so good on the mic that you wouldn't know. I want to help with that. I want this to be something Phil.

[Phil Broughton]

And if you're coming to the Bay Area, for some reason, I'm always happy to give the Phil Broughton tour where I point at Manhattan Project things that aren't there anymore.

[Alec Baldwin]

Oh, you're on the Bay.

[Osvaloshin]

Yeah.

[Alec Baldwin]

Okay. I'll be on the Bay.

[Osvaloshin]

Wow. We did how many hours and we just didn't reveal that?

[Phil Broughton]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I live in the Bay Area and I work at a university that is somewhere in the Bay Area.

[Alec Baldwin]

I'll be there 28 to 31st. Also, if you're in the Bay Area 28 to 31st, you should come to my co host Jason Sadowski's book launch at Sydney Lights.

[Osvaloshin]

Jathan Sadowski, of course. The inventor of the Habsburg AI term.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yes. And got the heir apparent of the Habsburg Empire to yell at him and say, this is a stereotype.

[Osvaloshin]

Man, I am so jealous of him that that happened. I am so upset that I've not.

[Alec Baldwin]

Had like a iceberg AI and Potemkin AI, you know.

[Osvaloshin]

Very nice. Those are my two favorite kinds. Right.

[Alec Baldwin]

Mine.

[Osvaloshin]

But also Edelgueso Jr thank you so much. You have battled through this week for your first CES in, I would say the conditions have been chaotic, but I made it. He made it.

[Alec Baldwin]

My stomach made it.

[Osvaloshin]

He cooked. But also, you're gonna see in the next year exactly how much Mr. Ongueso Jr does. He is incredible, and we've been so lucky to have him.

[Alec Baldwin]

Thank you.

[Phil Broughton]

I got to meet one of my favorite writers.

[Alec Baldwin]

Thank you.

[Phil Broughton]

I've been enjoying your work for so long.

[Alec Baldwin]

I really Appreciate that.

[Phil Broughton]

So it's been awesome.

[Osvaloshin]

And I will say this as I say every time when I meet you, man, I also got to have drinks with my favorite writers. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a genuine pleasure, I imagine, for the listeners, but selfishly for me.

[Alec Baldwin]

Me too. I wouldn't have done it with anyone else, guys.

[Osvaloshin]

Hell yeah. And this is the thing. Like, this has been very guy weighted, but also I want all the fellas to listen to, remember that you can love your male friends and talk about how fucking rocking they are and how much they've supported you all week. You don't have to be so fucking self conscious, you fucking cowards.

[Phil Broughton]

Compliment each other, man.

[Osvaloshin]

Also, Ed is like the best dressed man I've ever fucking. Every fucking day. I'm just swearing too much. Ed looks just amazing. I look pretty good too. Don't say it. Yeah, he actually has like the most wonderful. I wish I was this cool. But nevertheless, we've had an incredible crew of people. I want to start by thanking Jared Newman, the freelancer. Henry Casey of CNN underscored, Ed Neidermeyer of the Autonocast, Father Gabriel Mosher, of course, of the Church, Jesse Farrar and Michael Hale of youf Kickstarter sucks, Tom McKay of IT Brew, of course, David Roth of Defector, Matt Binder of Mashable, Max Czerny of Reuters, Gare Davis and Robert Evans, of course. If it could happen here, Phil Broughton, who's sitting across from me of what I've just written as miscellaneous. Devendra Hardawar, Karissa Bell, and of course Sherlyn Lowe of Engadget, Victoria Song of the Verge, Carl Chouinard of the Las Vegas sun, and of course Matasalski, our incredible God damn producer. You have been an absolute legend this entire time. We couldn't have done it without you. But we also could not have done it without iHeartRadio's Sophie Lichterman, and of course Ian Johnson, who has been. He is literally dealing with the wildfires at the moment and he is like, we didn't hear from him. It's like, oh, crap. Shit. And actually I want to do a shout out to Miles Gray of the Daily Zeitgeist, the iHeartRadio show. He literally lost everything. I'll be dropping a link in there. Don't feel obligated to like many people going through many things, but if you can donate, please do. And thank you from me. This has been a very personal podcast. A little too personal. And I have no idea if it's Good or bad, I really don't know. You seem to be happy, but nevertheless, this is. You have all kind of witnessed my own personal journey with technology, and technology has been part of my life since I was 10, I think, and you've all been wonderful, and I think you like this, and I like doing this. I love doing this. We will be back in a year, and I'll get to that in a second. We'll also be back next week. We're gonna have better offline radio in New York. I get on the plane to New York on Sunday, it's gonna be a complete nightmare.

[Phil Broughton]

But no exciting. It's an adventure.

[Osvaloshin]

It is. And I just love cooking. I could probably do another hour of podcasting, but you're thinking, please, please, no more. No more, sir. We've had too much. But in all seriousness, we're gonna be back immediately with Paris Martineau and, of course, Jeff Jarvis of Twit and their various associations, but we are gonna be back in a year. And I've learned so many ways to do this, but the biggest lesson I've learned, and that's right, it's friendship, is that everyone came together to support this show. Every single goddamn person who walked into this suite walked in here intent on actually discussing what had happened, and everyone was so fucking wonderful. And I think now of all times, it's really easy to be kind of cynical and definitely pessimistic about the tech industry and say that there's nothing to redeem it, really, and everything is growth at all costs. But I think that's reductive. I think it's something where you can look at the most powerful people and the things being talked about and lose the magic, which is as fucked up as the algorithms are making things. As detached as we might be from whatever social networks this week has proven, at the very least, that there are human beings that truly love the computer and love the things that they can do with it and the people it connects with. I hope I've given you something in this week and that's proof of solidarity with your fellow human being and seeing that within this extremely boring, arduous show at times where most people are lying to you or thinking about ways they could put you in a position to lie to you more egregiously. There are people coming in here who are slightly excited or very excited about a smaller laptop because they're able to use the computer in a different place, so they're able to do more with their lives. And as Ed said, the algorithms he uses, he could potentially use for more accurate linguistics. He could learn more about a language. There are many wonderful things that technology can do and I've been quite emotional and I think you like it and I fucking love him. But I'm emotional because I'm surrounded by people who really give a shit. Emotional because every single person that's come through this door, the people running it, but even the people visiting have shown that they there's not a single half ass are in them. There's not a person that I've spoken to who has not deeply and meaningfully cared about something in technology. And there's nothing wrong with you if you truly love what technology has done for you. Nothing about this podcast is about trying to fracture you from the things that you love about it. If you're pissed off, I'm with you about the way it's being done, but what I hope I've shown you in the last week is that there are people that care as much as you do, if not more. People that love it as much as you do, and people who share your frustration with the way things have gone. We will be back next week and we will be back in 2026 for the consumer Electronics Show. If you listen this long, I do love you all and I'm so grateful for you. Listening to Better Offline thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Mattossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio [e-mail] M A T T O S O W S K-I.com youm can email me at ezetteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I I also really recommend you go to chat where's your ed at? To visit the Discord and go to r betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff, we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join Us Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and.

[Alec Baldwin]

The host of welcome to the Party.

[Osvaloshin]

Your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf, Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart Women's fourth production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party that's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast here's the Thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

[Osvaloshin]

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you know, you do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon. Go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvaloshin]

How serious is youth vaping?

[Phil Broughton]

Irreversible lung damage serious?

[Osvaloshin]

1 in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know it all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the Ad Council.

[Phil Broughton]

Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection?

[Osvaloshin]

I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large.

[Phil Broughton]

For jobs and career development, and on my podcast, Get Hired, I bring you all the information you need to, well, get Hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every.

[Osvaloshin]

Step of the way, with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation, and so much more.

[Phil Broughton]

Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.