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- [00:00]
Ed Zitron
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
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- [00:49]
Ed Zitron
This.
- [00:50]
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- [01:50]
Hope Woodard
Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator and seeker of mail validation. I'm also the girl behind Voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process.
- [02:18]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.
- [02:22]
Hope Woodard
Let me hear it. No Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:31]
Amy Robach
Amy Robach and TJ Holmes Here Diddy's former protege, television personality Danity King. Alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.
- [02:44]
TJ Holmes
It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.
- [02:52]
Amy Robach
Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [03:03]
Sophie Lichterman
Call Zone Media.
- [03:06]
Ed Zitron
Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host, Ed Zitron. Better Offline. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Soph Lichterman, who will be overseeing our Q and A episode, our very first one. Sophie, thank you so much for joining me.
- [03:28]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, I'm kind of the Q and A MC over here at Cool Zone Media, as in you need somebody to ask you the questions.
- [03:35]
Ed Zitron
And we've had wonderful questions from all of you this this week. Thank you so much. We're going to try and do these every couple months, but I love hearing from you. Please post on the Reddit. Please message me. You have my email. Easy. Better offline.com and that's EZ betteroffline.com for the Canadians and the British who listen to this as well. But, Sophie, why don't we take it away?
- [03:55]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, I'm just gonna jump through some of these questions and.
- [03:58]
Ed Zitron
Sounds good.
- [03:59]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah. And like, thank you guys so much for submitting them. Like, we really genuinely appreciate it.
- [04:04]
Ed Zitron
It's cool.
- [04:04]
Sophie Lichterman
It's cool. It's cool that you have a podcast where people like you enough where they want to ask you questions.
- [04:09]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, it's sick.
- [04:11]
Sophie Lichterman
All right, I'm gonna start with a question from Garrett Smart. Do you think AI is actually useful in any capacity, even as an assistant in the areas of art or programming? If so, why?
- [04:26]
Ed Zitron
So when it comes to art, I think that there are new functions, like slightly better clone tools as well that I've heard people use, but really, this is just a bridge from Photoshop. I will say, for the most part, art is not a great one because usually it's just getting rid of the creative side. Programming is a more complex one. So there's an excellent video linked to in the episode Notes from the Internet of Bugs, that Carl Brown, I think his name is. I really want him on the show. Carl, if you're listening, please come on. Where he kind of said that generative AI code is different to what software engineering is like. Software engineering is solving a murder or an investigation far more than generative AI is just creating code because software engineering isn't just spooting out code and saying, here we go, we're done. We now have software. Software is a manifold series of different things you have to do. And on top of that, things break when you plug them into other things. And our Internet and most software products are built in a patchwork of different things. So software development, the best I've heard is that it can be used in very controlled situations for very specific things. If you're really interested in learning what it can actually do, I recommend Max Wolf and Simon Wilson. I'll link them in the notes as well, but those two are non hype AI guys. I also really recommend the Internet of Bugs, which again, I'll. I'll link as well. There are software developers who use this stuff I don't know about. And actually the Internet of Bug videos, really good as well, because it breaks the whole myth of, oh, Microsoft and Google saying 20 to 30% of their code is written by AI. It's kind of bullshit, as you'd expect, because you can't just hand off code like this. There's also vibe coding. Vibe coding in and of itself has so many problems in that. Yeah, when you create something that works in a way that you literally don't understand, by definition, yeah, it's probably going to fucking break. I mean, it will break at some point and you won't know how to fix it other than to poke the machine that built it and say, fix the problem. I don't understand.
- [06:23]
Sophie Lichterman
It's a good answer from Falcon underscore 1983. I'd be interested to hear Ed's process for researching and planning his stuff. How long does it take to go from an idea to a finished article and podcast? I'm. Are you. I'm excited to hear the truth for this one.
- [06:38]
Ed Zitron
Okay, so Sophie. Sophie's going to love this. So the answer is several seconds or several days or several weeks. So I'll give you an example. I have an upcoming newsletter that's about 13,000 words long. I'm going to break it into probably two or three episodes. That thing started with me listening to JoJo Bizarre Adventure, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure music. Even sitting outside, just, it was a nice day at a smoke was like, oh, fuck. I started writing down like the most insane notes ever. I then sent that to my editor and my mate Casey, and we talked about it for like a day or two. And then I get pissed off like a baby that needs to fart or burp. I sit There being mad at the idea. I message people like, what do you think about that? You. You ever see this? And they're like, I don't know what you're talking about, Ed. I don't understand what you're talking about. What do you mean? And then I'll then, in explaining it to them, I'll actually come up with the idea. And then I will sit down and I will write for several hours. And I will write for several hours straight. I will research as I'm writing. There will be stuff that I pick up along the way in my day that I'm reading, and I'll go there. This kind of makes me feel annoyed or feels like it slots in. And then I will go through a full I. So the 13,001 took me about three days, probably three days, about three hours each. Bits and pieces. And I'm researching as I go. That's a big part of my process, which sounds insane, but it's mostly because I'm trying to explain it to myself as I go, which works pretty well. It makes the things a little long. But, I mean, that's why you listen to the podcast. Then there will be situations like with Giant Bomb. So the Giant Bomb episode that came out last week, so that one came together in a few minutes. I was like, I messaged Dan Reichert over there and said, hey, look, I would love to do an episode with you guys. And just came together quickly. Same with, like, Karen Howe. And so it really is a tapestry of different things. There will be times when I ping friends and just say, hey, look, what do you think about this idea? And I will shoot the with them for a few hours and something will come out. That's why I end up. I mentioned Casey Kagawa a lot. He's one of my closest friends, and we. We ideate a lot because we both have brain worms. So. Yeah, I don't know if anyone else in the world writes like this. It makes me sound insane, but I really enjoy it. And I feel better at the end. Like, it feels like I. I really built something. It's. It's cool. I like doing it. The monologues are insane in that those usually take me about 10 minutes of pacing around, thinking, and then about 20 minutes of writing. Then I record straight. Because I like the monologues. The monologues I think I have more fun with than anything else because they're so low. They're low velocity, low pressure. I love doing them. Like, and I always say, I'll just do five minutes. That comes out as 10. Oh, really should do a monologue this week.
- [09:23]
Sophie Lichterman
I love your monologues.
- [09:24]
Ed Zitron
Oh, they're the best. I really do.
- [09:26]
Sophie Lichterman
I love that you were like, yeah, I'll try it. And then you were like, I had so much fun doing this.
- [09:32]
Ed Zitron
Like, that's because it's low pressure.
- [09:34]
Sophie Lichterman
You can tell, but you can tell. That's why they're so. That's why they're so good. Because if you were doing them out of, like, oh, obligation to rant as opposed to, like, I actually like doing, and then it's just not as interesting, in my opinion. Yeah, you can tell. You can tell as, like a. As like a podcast producer of many podcasts. You can tell when somebody's phoning it in.
- [09:55]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, I don't think I have it in me to phone it in. I get.
- [09:58]
Sophie Lichterman
No, you don't.
- [09:59]
Ed Zitron
I get. I mean, the man who killed Google Search, you know, from last monologue. Sorry, two monologues back, even when we're recording this.
- [10:05]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [10:06]
Ed Zitron
Was literally that came from me being pissed off about, like, I was trying to phone in a GN newsletter. It was like, not shein newsletter, podcast. And it was super early and better offline, so I had no process. I was just, like, just constantly worried every week.
- [10:19]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Ed Zitron
Not anymore, though. Now I feast on content.
- [10:24]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah. You caught the podcast illness.
- [10:27]
Ed Zitron
Oh, yeah. The Evans Madness.
- [10:32]
Sophie Lichterman
Let's do another one from Logan. My question is, how do you see the copyright lawsuits playing out and its effect on generative AI in the tech industry? Do you have faith that creators will win and copyrighted content will need to be pulled from these models, severely hindering their performance?
- [10:53]
Ed Zitron
I think that it's going to be.
- [10:55]
Sophie Lichterman
That's a good question.
- [10:56]
Ed Zitron
It's going to be weird and confusing right up until it isn't. So I don't think you're going to have, like, a unilateral win in any of these cases. It's never that clean. It's never that easy. But I think what is most likely to happen is there's going to be a win, and then there will be a massive settlement. But that settlement will be used in the future to break these machines if they lose these things. And there is ever, like, a precedent set that says, and I'm not a lawyer, I realize, but. And they say, okay, this is the thing where this. This proves that feeding into the models is a violation of copyright. Let's just say they can't untrain these things. They cannot do it. You cannot untrain a model. Once a model is trained, it's done. There are stages to them they could probably revert back to from what I understand. But you can't just be like, okay, remove all pictures of Scooby Doo, remove all pictures of Garfield. And another important detail is the model developers don't really understand how these things work themselves. They're still working it out. It's why there's so many questions they have when it's like they get where they're like, oh yeah, yeah, it'd just be very complex to remove. The answer is they don't know how. OpenAI like a year ago said they were going to make a media central thing where you could opt out of stuff. Just never happened. No one checked. On the less fun level, it will probably be a big settlement. On the funny level will be the judge says, yeah, you have to amend your models. There is no amending these models. They will have to spend tens, hundreds of millions of dollars to retrain anything that is used there. There will be some that refuse to. I would not be surprised if Elon Musk, if even order just goes, oh yeah, that's not epical based. They're not going to do it. And no one is going to like, no one's going to out sue him. OpenAI is far more scared of that anthropic extremely weak to that. And on top of that, any of these lawsuits prevailing will fuck OpenAI's nonprofit situation, which is already pretty fucked up. Like there are so many weak points in these companies that people don't realize. And there's always hope. Never give up hope that these assholes can get crushed.
- [13:11]
Colgate Advertiser
Colgate Total may make your favorite toothpaste, but it's also a science innovator committed to oral health. For instance, the Colgate Total Active Prevention System with a cutting edge toothbrush, refreshing antibacterial mouthwash and a reformulated toothpaste. With the technology so innovative it won the 2024 Edison Patent Award, the Colgate Total Active prevention system is 15 times more effective at reducing bacteria buildup to fight the root cause of oral health problems in six weeks starting from week one. Compared to a non antibacterial fluoride toothpaste and flat trim toothbrush. Talk about science. Get the Colgate Total Active Prevention System today so you can be dentist ready shop now by visiting shop.colgate.com total.
- [13:57]
Hope Woodard
Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind Voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal, it's political, it's societal. And at times it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.
- [14:44]
Ed Zitron
It's a very, very normal experience to.
- [14:47]
Hope Woodard
Have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together, how we love our family.
- [14:54]
Sophie Lichterman
I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the.
- [14:58]
Hope Woodard
Price is too high and how we love ourselves.
- [15:01]
Ed Zitron
Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.
- [15:05]
Hope Woodard
Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [15:14]
Amy Robach
Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here, Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist Danity Kang alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.
- [15:28]
Aubrey O'Day
Aubrey o' Day is sitting next to us. Here you are. As we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy drop? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band as she emerged as the breakout star. The truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour.
- [15:57]
TJ Holmes
It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.
- [16:04]
Amy Robach
Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts made for this.
- [16:14]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
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- [16:30]
Unknown Speaker
You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refer to, refuse to identify the thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my mountain.
- [16:37]
Ed Zitron
This is the struggle.
- [16:38]
Unknown Speaker
This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that.
- [16:43]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
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- [16:59]
Unknown Speaker
Because it's a impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.
- [17:08]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:17]
Sophie Lichterman
All right, from Mela I think it's Mela M E L A. I'm sorry if it's not Mela question. I'm a teacher. Any thoughts on AI being implemented in the classroom? Specifically in public schools? We talk about it pretty often because it constantly getting marketed as a tool, but it is mostly in the context of students learning on it to write research, but not about how it is being marketed to schools.
- [17:44]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, so I don't know this subject in depth, but I'll say this, I've heard of people using it for lesson plans, teachers and if you're not a teacher and you hear this, teachers have to like buy all their own shit and they need to do all their own work. They get basically no support. So I wouldn't be surprised if the if OpenAI or one of these companies tries to push in and be like, oh, it's a teachers assistant. It's a rare case where like, maybe it kind of helps. But I think after a certain point, if you're making a lesson plan with ChatGPT, you're no longer fucking teaching. I think you're just, you were just representing someone else's information and hoping it works. I worry about administrations in poorly funded education departments just being like, okay, yeah, let's just shove this in here. I think the worries that people have over, over the whole like, oh, kids are just going to be handed a GPT and told to go nuts. I don't think that will happen just because, well, Google's already trying to do that with Gemini. They're already trying to give Gemini to kids. I don't think that that's going to last as long as people think because at some point a child is going to hurt themselves because of one of these things or hurt someone else. And as much as we love our restrained capital unrestrained capitalism in this country and the world at large, there comes a point where that kind of stuff fucks you in Europe, like Europe will open unhinge their jaw and swallow OpenAI whole. And the same with Google. If they do anything with kids and AI in a way they don't like over here you're going to see some tests. But fundamental thing is it can't do the teaching part. It can do the hi, I want like finish my homework for me. But the actual lesson instruction, no. And nor is there a situation where they're just going to sit kids down in front of it because I don't know how would that even. I mean, sure in some dystopian future we just hand them a laptop and chat GPT and say go nuts. But on a practical level I just don't see that happening. And if I guess you could say then there are the doomers out there will say the department of education could force GROK onto everything. If you think in that way, if you constantly pull yourself in the doomerist direction, yeah, anything can literally happen ever anytime. Anything terrible can happen. I think you are going to see a lot of, of departments push teachers to learn this stuff to the point in your question. I think when it becomes student facing, that's when things are going to get a little bit weird and a little bit crazier. Because another thing to think about, how well do you think conservatives will react to their child being plonked in front of ChatGPT or Grok or what have you? And Grok or ChatGPT tells them that like black people should have the same rights as white people. They're gonna hate that. They're gonna be furious at that idea. They're gonna say that they're being given a woke education and there is only so much amendment you can do to a system prompt before you entirely break it. As proven by the fact that GROK talked about white genocide or the boas ad nauseam the other day. Shout out to Kylie Roberson went on Chris Hayes talk about that. But yeah, I, it's a mix. It's really, it's a question of how far this hype cycle goes and for how long. Because if it lasts another two or three years somewhere it's going to happen. But I don't see that happening at all.
- [21:02]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, I know it's really kind of gnarly for teachers when they can, when they can so easily tell that students are just using AI to turn in homework. I mean somebody's going to create something that is like a plagiarism tracker, but it's like an AI tracker. At some point you'd have to imagine.
- [21:20]
Ed Zitron
And those already exist and they're already dinging students for. And I think that there is a wider problem with the whole ChatGPT essay writing thing, which is we don't teach children to write.
- [21:31]
Sophie Lichterman
Correct.
- [21:31]
Ed Zitron
I remember when I was at Penn State, I had a group project for any of you listening, I'm very sorry your writing sucked. I had a group project with like seniors and juniors and I was a sophomore at the time and it was like an 18 page, double spaced essay and everyone's writing was different but the same kind of bad. And it kind of mirrored the shitty writing of ChatGPT. It's the kind of intro body conclusion slop. We taught people to write like this and we graded them based on this writing. We don't because we think, oh, not everyone can write. Actually they can. I fully believe they can if given media to consume and encouragement and have good writers teach them. Yeah, because we do not prioritize communication as in fact, I think it is a way to think. It's. We don't prioritize teaching people communication at all. People are using ChatGPT to mediate conflict because we don't have any kind of institutionalized mental health. I don't mean like institutions, I mean like making people do mental health stuff. We don't have any kind of classes to teach people conflict resolution and we also don't teach people how to fucking communicate. We romanticize, especially in college, this kind of overstuffed architect in the Matrix style, indubitably bullshit, which is about making yourself sound smart rather than actually communicating an intelligent point. This is a natural weak point for things like ChatGPT, which is entirely about sounding smart without being smart. So I mean, I'm actually shocked that teachers can't tell that CHAT when CHAT GPT is writing because I've been able to 100% notice when I get that slob. It's a really certain kind of echoing nothing behind it. There's no, There is no. I'm not even being kind of condescending. I mean there is a way it writes. There is a way that Claude writes as well. It always goes like. That's a really good point.
- [23:20]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, there's usually some kind of like, indeed, that is great. Yeah, like there's some like really strange or like. And an unusually awkward punctuation as well that you can just tell and it doesn't feel right.
- [23:33]
Ed Zitron
And. But again, if we have teachers that don't know how to write, who don't know what good writing is. They just. And again, that is a. Not again, I didn't say this yet. But there is also likely not the institutional support for teachers either. So it's just we create these weak systems that get exploited. And none of this is a business model for ChatGPT either. Like they got 16.5 million I think from Cal State University. Cal State University System. It's like that's still losing the money and already people are trying to get rid of it. It's just. It's also sickening.
- [24:07]
Sophie Lichterman
It's a mess. Let's go, let's go to. Let's go to a fun question from Nora. Do you have a piece of tech you wish had been successful but wasn't? Or that you wish was widely influential but didn't turn out that way? I would love to know your answer to this question.
- [24:22]
Ed Zitron
So my one is the PlayStation Vita. So the PlayStation Vita was this little gaming console that Sony did. It was PlayStation 3 era, I think it was. It was so cool. It was like a step up from the PlayStation Portable. The graphics were good. It had this weird touch screen on the back that you could use. It really wasn't a great idea, but it was like they were trying stuff. It was also just a great form factor. Great way, great games, really great. Same with the psp and I get why it didn't take off and I think we are getting there. There's the GPD Win 4, which is like a little gaming PC handheld that kind of feels like it, but it's too chunky. I think in the next few years you might actually see growth in this because good lord is the like I love the mobile gaming PCs. I'm for the show, actually. I'm playing with an Asus Rog Ally X, which is really cool. We are probably five to 10 years away from what I'm dreaming of, which is a super thin one that's kind of like a Nintendo Switch, but a powerful gaming PC. But I wish the PS Vita had done better because we would have seen this quicker. We, we would have seen a push for smaller silicon for batteries. Like there would have been just more money going into it. But again, maybe it didn't get there because the tech wasn't ready. I still loved it. I still really loved it. And I, I really love that form factor as well. And the big thing, I guess I'm saying is it's do these things exist? It's. I'll play like Sony is very good at ergonomic stuff. I love their controllers like that was what really made it as well. It was just the. Ah, I missed. I missed that. And I'm sure there's some. If you are a listener who played with the PlayStation Portable and PlayStation Vita homebrew scene. Love you. Please email me. I would love to talk about it. I miss it. It was cool. As Raymond Wong, who used to write Inverse, did a lot about it as well. It's just. I guess the part of tech I'm missing is. Well, that never really took off is these powerful portable handhelds. And we're so close. We're so close.
- [26:19]
Unknown Speaker
I can.
- [26:19]
Ed Zitron
Can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel the cosmos. It's gonna be wonderful when it gets here.
- [26:24]
Sophie Lichterman
There was a article that I read a couple days ago from Vice that was probably, you know, not an original piece from Vice, no offense to Vice. That was like, your pets could one day be able to talk to you with AI. And I just like that, to me, was one you've been talking about. And there's a question that talks about the AI bubble burst, which is what this is leading into. You've talked about that. That is such an indicator to me that I'm like, come on, come on. Yeah, come on, guys.
- [26:57]
Ed Zitron
Part of the joy of pets is that they can't communicate with us. And we have to show them extra love and affection.
- [27:01]
Sophie Lichterman
I know that we have to understand.
- [27:03]
Ed Zitron
Their needs without fully understanding them. That we have to be empathetic and caring about them. The idea that also. I don't want to hear what Babu thinks of me. I think he loves me, but I know he loves me. I think howl is the one. The. The. My off. My cat who kind of like, stays in my office mostly. He is the one who. I think he's probably got some mean things to say. He loves me, but he also hits me in the face sometimes.
- [27:26]
Sophie Lichterman
So, yeah, I mean, like, I think Anderson would. Would not trade me for a piece of string cheese, but my. My newest rescue dog, Truman. I mean, I'd love for. For us to know when she'd be like that. I'm scared of that. But also, I don't want to hear that she would trade me for a piece of string cheese, which I'm pretty sure she would at this point. And I understand it.
- [27:48]
Ed Zitron
What if my dog's racist, yo?
- [27:51]
Sophie Lichterman
I mean, come on. What if your dog has, like, really bad taste in television?
- [27:55]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, you're. Oh, God. What if your dog is just annoying? What if your dog just, like, hums? Yeah, well, your dog's sitting there, like, kind of going, yeah, just like makes like weird mouth. Like there's just otherwise. Like my pets are beautiful and wonderful. I love them so much and they make my life so good. They really are angels.
- [28:16]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine?
- [28:19]
Ed Zitron
I know I don't need to. Well, I mean Babu talks to me anyway.
- [28:22]
Sophie Lichterman
I can understand almost everything that my dogs communicate to me.
- [28:26]
Ed Zitron
Nice.
- [28:26]
Sophie Lichterman
And I. And that's great. And that's where it needs to stay.
- [28:29]
Ed Zitron
I think Babu can understand me for sure.
- [28:32]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [28:33]
Ed Zitron
Because I have tons of videos of me saying, babu, what you want? And he meows at me. I'm saying, really? He goes, meow. And it's like, okay, yeah, we're talking. That's what I'm telling myself.
- [28:41]
Sophie Lichterman
Like Anderson can. She's right behind me staring at you.
- [28:45]
Ed Zitron
Legend. The legend.
- [28:47]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, yeah, she's perfect. But like I think she is more self aware about what's going on in the world than most humans.
- [28:54]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.
- [28:56]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah. Anyways, from Justin. This was leading into the AI bubble bursting. As the AI bubble bursts, what will become of the many mediocre customers who have become overly reliant on it for just about everything? That's a great question.
- [29:09]
Ed Zitron
I think the first thing they're going to find out is they're not reliant on it at all. That is the. The first thing they're going to discover is that they were never reliant on this stuff. I also think that in the event that they were reliant on it, they'll choose one of the many open source models. And because large language models are not going to disappear. It's not like OpenAI dies tomorrow. Large language models will not. The hype cycle dies. They will not die. There are on device models, Nvidia's putting out like a $3,000. I think it's the DGX box they're doing that can run large language models of certain parameters. Like it's very doable. And there are going to be people who just go, I never really needed this. Yeah. There are going to be those who say, oh Well I use ChatG for this. That and the other chat GPT.com all forward to Copilot. Like you're going to have access to one of these fucking things. You're just going to find out what happens when people are not told to use this stuff, when people naturally use it. And I think you can kind of see what will happen there based on the user numbers for these companies outside of OpenAI, they can barely muster up the combined active Users of like a free to play game that sells your information to the Chinese. Like, I, I think that so much of this demand is artificial too. And I think that it's curiosity. People are like, oh, I hear about this constantly, I should try it out. And then, yeah, people are ultimately a bit lazy. I know I can be. And they're like, oh, I'm in an argument with my mate, what do I do about it? How do I deal with the argument with my friend chatgpt? And there will be that. People use it for that. But I also think that again, that's not a business model and people will not care for that. So I think the future will be large language models with heavy usage limits and premium ones that no one pays for, really, that are just way more expensive. And I really do think OpenAI eventually cops there. I think they get absorbed into Microsoft because we don't really have antitrust right now. So I think they'll just get paying.
- [31:11]
Sophie Lichterman
For premium AI, sadly.
- [31:13]
Ed Zitron
So they're paying. OpenAI gets like billions of dollars through this. But it's like people, organizations buying it. And you have people think about it like this. If every single news outlet everywhere, forever, for two. Sorry, not forever, for two years straight or more, has said chat GPT AI, Generative AI. Chat GPT. Yeah, billions of billions of dollars of revenue. Sure. People will shove money into something if they are told to. And on top of that, you have tons of business idiots who are just like, yeah, I need to put AI in my business. And I have the podcast that's coming up. I actually believe our economy is run by a lot of people who don't do any work. So this shit seems like magic. Of course they'll buy it for their entire organization. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah, sure, put Chat GPT and everything. That's how that works. Oh, here we go. And I think that when it goes away, or ChatGPT does, I think that we'll probably see just the kind of very boring large language model industry. And it just, it just won't, it won't be as prevalent, you won't hear about it as much. And it'll actually be better for the tech, I think. All told.
- [32:31]
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- [33:16]
Hope Woodard
Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator and seeker of mail validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal, it's political, it's societal and at times it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days I'm interested in expanding what is it means to be voiceover to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.
- [34:04]
Ed Zitron
It's a very, very normal experience to.
- [34:06]
Hope Woodard
Have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that aren't being naked together. How we love our family.
- [34:14]
Sophie Lichterman
I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the.
- [34:17]
Hope Woodard
Price is too high and how we love ourselves.
- [34:20]
Ed Zitron
Singleness is not a waiting room.
- [34:21]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
You are actually at the party right now.
- [34:24]
Hope Woodard
Let me hear it. Yes, listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [34:33]
Amy Robach
Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here, Diddy's former protege, television personality platinum selling artist Danity Kang alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial and that has captivated the attention of the nation.
- [34:47]
Aubrey O'Day
Aubrey o' Day is sitting next to us. Here you are. As we sit here right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band. As she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour.
- [35:16]
TJ Holmes
It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.
- [35:23]
Amy Robach
Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts made for this.
- [35:34]
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- [35:50]
Unknown Speaker
You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my mountain.
- [35:56]
Ed Zitron
This is the struggle.
- [35:57]
Unknown Speaker
This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that.
- [36:03]
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- [36:18]
Unknown Speaker
Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.
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Made for this Mountain Advertiser
Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [36:38]
Sophie Lichterman
And we're back from. I'm gonna try to get this right. P8N T B A L L N X J. I think I did that. Yeah, I think they're trying to say paintball.
- [36:55]
Ed Zitron
Paintball.
- [36:57]
Sophie Lichterman
All right, question is, Ed, what are your favorite activities that have nothing to do with tech?
- [37:03]
Ed Zitron
Okay, so I have a local basketball court I've been going to on my own and I've been playing basketball on my own, which sounds very sad, but.
- [37:12]
Sophie Lichterman
No, it doesn't.
- [37:13]
Ed Zitron
I. I do a ton of fitness. So last year, lost a ton of weight. I'm down like buck 65 now. Muscle. It's great. So I. I work out a lot. The reason I don't bring up lifting is because that's tech. Like, my tonal is a tech thing. Basketball is not. It's me, my music and. And who? Pim. And I'll tell you, I am one of the worst shooters of all time. I am so bad at it, but I really like rebounding and I really like the cardio thing because I needed a cardio level to go because my boxing was kind of stalling. So I really enjoyed just like running around for half an hour, like catching a ball in the air and shooting it.
- [37:47]
Sophie Lichterman
And then I want to play basketball with You.
- [37:50]
Ed Zitron
You will demolish me more than that. I have the cardio. I have the cardio, but I. I'm like. How tall are you?
- [37:57]
Sophie Lichterman
I'm five foot three on a good day.
- [37:59]
Ed Zitron
Okay. Yeah, I might. I might be. All right, then. I'm five nine.
- [38:02]
Sophie Lichterman
I was. I was captain of my varsity basketball team.
- [38:05]
Ed Zitron
Oh, then you'll demolish me then. Okay? You will. You will send me to hell. You'll be able to actually get the ball in the hoop, which is my one problem. But I really like that, and I really like barbecue. So I have two pellet smokers, which I realized to some listeners who do like, the wood chunks is kind of considered haram, but fuck you, you purist bastard. But I love making ribs. I love making tri tip. I hate making brisket. It was a few years ago. I really fucked up some brisket.
- [38:32]
Sophie Lichterman
Tri tip. I love.
- [38:33]
Ed Zitron
Tri tip's the best. My tri tip's incredible as well. I really enjoy that. I do use some tech things. I have a combustion thermometer, but really is just a giant steel thing full of smoke that I watch. And it's great. And it's honestly has been really good for me, and it allows me to cook for people, which I love doing. And. Yeah. And when I'm waiting for stuff to cook, I will stand watching TV outside, bouncing the basketball around, catching it in the air. I just. I have some weird habits, as you can probably guess, but I really enjoy, like, being bad at basketball. I honestly have not enjoyed.
- [39:09]
Sophie Lichterman
Do you, like, watch basketball?
- [39:11]
Ed Zitron
I'm getting there. I'm still learning the. The people I know that, like, James Harden is constantly at strip clubs or being traded.
- [39:20]
Sophie Lichterman
I. I hate him. My brother played against him in high school. He's been an since he was a child.
- [39:25]
Ed Zitron
Yeah. And he seems to, like, enjoy, like, tricking people into doing fouls. But I just. I'd like him more if he was ruder. Like, if he was more of a heel. If he, like, like, was like. Nah, the fans a bit. Yeah.
- [39:36]
Sophie Lichterman
I mean, cape prop Ian and I can teach you.
- [39:39]
Ed Zitron
I would love to learn basketball. I.
- [39:41]
Sophie Lichterman
You're a Laker, by the way.
- [39:43]
Ed Zitron
Cool. I like.
- [39:45]
Sophie Lichterman
It's good you've been assigned baseball as well.
- [39:49]
Ed Zitron
I really enjoy baseball. I got into baseball a few years ago. I really enjoy going to baseball. Don't really enjoy watching it on tv. Like, I can, but I need to, like, have a reason I'm there. Like, it needs to be like. Like an LDS or something. I'm like a Dodgers, Padres, Mets fan. It's A whole mess. That's really. I'm more of a game. I'm like the Rob Lowe wearing the NFL hat guy. I'm just like, I'm here for the game. But I really do. I really enjoy baseball. And with that in mind, I also enjoy, but haven't been for a while, going to a batting cage. I really enjoy batting cages. It's just. Especially when you're on the computer all the time, you're looking at screens all the time, and you just go and you hit a ball that's like, thrown at you at 70 miles an hour. It's very difficult, but again, really enjoy it.
- [40:36]
Sophie Lichterman
How do you feel about, like, mini golf and like, the driving range?
- [40:39]
Ed Zitron
I do. I like mini golf. Never done a driving range, though.
- [40:41]
Sophie Lichterman
I like mini golf a lot. Mini golf is great. You know, I don't. I don't like that, like, what's it called? The, like, yassified, like, driving range where.
- [40:51]
Ed Zitron
Oh, top golf.
- [40:52]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah. I really don't enjoy topgolf.
- [40:54]
Ed Zitron
Oh.
- [40:55]
Sophie Lichterman
It's just.
- [40:57]
Ed Zitron
I've never, like, really known where you'd go. I guess it just felt like a driving range to me. And it's like, I like mini golf. I think mini golf's fun and silly.
- [41:04]
Sophie Lichterman
I like, like a really, like, old school mini golf course that, you know, has been there forever. And like.
- [41:10]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, it's kind of.
- [41:10]
Sophie Lichterman
It's in the tech and there's like, no tech. It's just like, really bad. Like wooden. Wooden art. And it's just hilarious.
- [41:18]
Ed Zitron
You're not sure if it's meant to go in a certain place, but you keep playing anywhere.
- [41:22]
Sophie Lichterman
Do you like bowling?
- [41:24]
Ed Zitron
No. So I have a coordinational disability called dyspraxia.
- [41:27]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [41:28]
Ed Zitron
Which is really weird. I realize basketball has honestly been an exploration of how prevalent that is in my life, though, because I could not dribble the ball when I started. Like, I physically could not. I would get maybe three or four bounces before I drop it. Now I can run at full speed up and down the court, dribbling, changing hands. I can turn around, I can grab the ball in the air. So it's been this weird exploration. So bowling might be one of those things where maybe if I try it.
- [41:55]
Sophie Lichterman
More, I don't know, the sticking your fingers into dirty holes thing. And it's.
- [42:01]
Ed Zitron
I can. We all been there, but it's, it's. It's one of those things where six months ago I'd have said no, but the basketball side again, on screens all day. So, like, my achievements are all typing but like being able to grab a ball out of the air, being able to actually rebound successfully, it's thrilling. I really enjoy it. And it's like something where I can't look at a screen. I have to look at where I'm going to miss next.
- [42:26]
Sophie Lichterman
I'm. I'm telling. I'm gonna text Ian and prop right now. We're going to give you a full basketball education.
- [42:32]
Ed Zitron
I would love that. I would genuinely love that. Casey Kagawa, friend of the show, got me into baseball in the same way. That's how I get into sport. I also do watch the NFL, but I think saying I like the Raiders is a stretch. It's like attending a years long class action suit.
- [42:47]
Sophie Lichterman
That was the weirdest thing that's ever coming out of your mouth. The Raiders. I know, I know. Locationally, sure. But like, to actually like the Raiders, you have to be a specific type of person, which you are not.
- [42:59]
Ed Zitron
Well, the funny thing is, is arif Hassan from 60 Minute Drill Football Podcast. I do laughed at me once because he asked on the part, he said, why'd you get into the Raiders? And I was like, oh, I lived in Oakland at the time and the season ticket's really cheap. And he just goes, you got into a football team because of market conditions. And that is something that will haunt me for the rest of my life. Because it's true. However, the team might be good this year. Maybe.
- [43:22]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [43:22]
Ed Zitron
But I haven't had hope before, so who cares? Yeah. Oh, and also the show Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, that's another thing I really like. You don't want to get me talking about that too much.
- [43:34]
Sophie Lichterman
Is that what the question about Jojo is?
- [43:37]
Ed Zitron
Yeah, there's. You can skip that.
- [43:39]
Sophie Lichterman
I was like, I don't know what that is. I'm not gonna.
- [43:40]
Ed Zitron
You don't need to. I would have to explain a bunch of stuff.
- [43:44]
Sophie Lichterman
I'm not like that. That went over my head. I'll ask one more serious one and then we'll do the cat.
- [43:50]
Ed Zitron
Sounds good.
- [43:50]
Sophie Lichterman
All right. Which one do I want to ask? That's serious Elvis comes from Eric. How the fuck is anyone supposed to make anything cool and make a living out of music anymore? I quit touring to be with my kid, but all the avenues I was going to explore and crumble under my feet. I think that's a good question. I think that's like music, but it's also just like, how the fuck are you supposed to create anything anymore?
- [44:11]
Ed Zitron
I think the thing that the problem is that it was never really A good way of making money before and the Internet had this explosion of where it was good to. It was good to make money for a beer. But there were only so many people who could. I mean iheartradio and Cool Zone came to me and I did the podcast because they could pay. Like I wouldn't have done like the idea of starting a podcast and like building an audience and selling ads sounds nightmarish to me. I can't imagine being a musician right now. It seems the way that musicians I know are making money are some skipping streaming services, doing a shit ton of touring, doing merch like kind of old school measures. I know these aren't really good answers I have. I can only sing. I can't play any musical instruments. I wish I could. I've never toured with anyone or have experience with that. But my general thing with creators right now is. And the only really good advice I've ever had is find whatever is easiest and do that. The reason I do my newsletter is though they're very long. I enjoy doing it. And it isn't. It's work I guess, but it comes very naturally. I don't do anything that doesn't. I find ways to streamline things that I don't like doing. Like I think anyone does. And I obviously like run like a PR firm and another thing. So I like, I need to make sure my time is used well. But the big thing is is I don't know how anyone does anything independently anymore. The newsletter I think I could have monetized but the bit. The best advice I got there was from Drew, Drew Fairweather. So I'm married to the sea. The shares I'm was just keep creating stuff which I know is deeply unsatisfying. But the mistake that people get pulled into is they're like, okay, so I've got Patreon, I've got this. What platforms am I on? I'm on the platform, on this platform. Am I posting to social? Am I posting to LinkedIn on my own? Am I on Instagram? Do I have Instagram clips to have this? All of that time could be spent making something. And indeed this is advice that I got from Sophie and Robert. Failure. Just fucking record. Just go for it. You will never be perfect. You will never be able to do a flawless episode of flawless product. What will come through is that you care about doing it and you're actually doing it. Because so many people get obsessed with the social media of it all. With the pushing, like with the I must hit content every week in this way, in this perfect way with all these clips, they must resemble another content creator when it really comes down to is just push it out, try stuff. Another great bit of advice I got was a wonderful Matt Weinberger, used to be a business insider, great editor, great writer, and he said, look to hit singles rather than home runs. You want to just keep putting stuff out regularly enough that you get feedback, that you get the natural feeling of what bangs before you even finish it. That way it will have more mass appeal because you'll learn more from people's reaction and from creating stuff than you ever will from doing a perfect social campaign, from following the right people, from having enough retweets. And this, the beginning sucks. When I started, I already had somewhat of a following, ironically from pr. I can. I can only recommend just creating more. I realize this is kind of an unsatisfying answer, but there are no good ones here. That, yeah, discovery sucks on everything now, even for pop culture.
- [47:29]
Sophie Lichterman
When I started his podcast, he was like, I'm terrible. And I'm like, keep doing it.
- [47:35]
Ed Zitron
You're not enjoying it now? I enjoy it now. Now they have to tell me to do less.
- [47:40]
Sophie Lichterman
It's true. Last question from Carolina. They say, I have an underlining curiosity to hear what your cat's favorite toys are and if they like churu. Is that how you pronounce that?
- [47:51]
Ed Zitron
Churu? Is this paste? Yeah.
- [47:55]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, it's this goop.
- [47:56]
Ed Zitron
I have yet to give my cats the goop.
- [47:58]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Ed Zitron
So Babu Pokey Howl doesn't really like I am his toy. He comes and sits on me. He bites my hand occasionally. He purrs, he lies down. He's a big, big softy. Same with Tingus Pingus. Tingus Pingus doesn't really play. Pokey and Babu's favorite toy is each other. They chase each other. Two Bengals, they just bolt around the house. They don't do it much. I have one of those cat wheels. Babu will go and run on it for 15 seconds. He will walk over, meow, run on it, get a head of steam, and then stop and then sit down on him. They like the classic dangly toys. They like to jump. Babu. We have like a river in the wall where we put something very high with like one of the dangly ones. And Bubble would just do these insane, like six foot tall jumps. Oh, he loves it. He loves it. And yes, of course, boxes. Yeah, Anytime I get a box, they get. They want to get in that. They want to play in the box. The twist tie things. I get cheap toys for Them because they seem just as happy. Another thing is this isn't really a toy, but I got one of these donut beds for the cats and they didn't use it for a year. And then one day I found in the space of 24 hours, all three of them trying the donut hole in the middle. Now Pingus mostly uses it. I have never tried giving them churro. I am now going to get some churro and try, just because.
- [49:21]
Sophie Lichterman
Have you tried one of those, like, glove brushes? My. My best friend's cats, I. I go to their house and I just sit there with the brush and they're just.
- [49:31]
Ed Zitron
I get one of them and I use it a few times and it never seems to. There is always more hair. So I think I need to get a deeper grooming.
- [49:39]
Sophie Lichterman
It's not even for the brush. It's not even for the. The grooming.
- [49:42]
Ed Zitron
Oh, they love it.
- [49:43]
Sophie Lichterman
They love it. Yeah.
- [49:44]
Ed Zitron
I pull that thing out sometimes when Pingus. I don't know. He looks particularly cute.
- [49:49]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [49:49]
Ed Zitron
And I just go and pick. I go and like, pick him up and sit down and start, like, grooming him. Like Blofeld, but with a giant kind of like blue spiky glove. Looks very sinister. But he. He really. He really. Pingus is the sweetie. He's the sweetest of them, all of them. I'm blessed with my beautiful cats and my friends as well. But, like, my cats really. I genuinely believe that cats echo something about their owners. So if you have someone with, like, super dysfunctional cats, there's a reason.
- [50:19]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah.
- [50:19]
Ed Zitron
Like.
- [50:21]
Sophie Lichterman
Yeah, I feel that way about my dogs. They are me and I am them.
- [50:25]
Ed Zitron
Well, they're wonderful dogs. I. Yeah. I've yet to meet them, though. One day I will. You will have to make it to work. Yeah, you will. And. But, yeah, I. I'm going to get churu after this.
- [50:36]
Sophie Lichterman
I actually have some because they were. Gave it to me to.
- [50:40]
Ed Zitron
To Thought you were gonna say you were. You were eating some.
- [50:43]
Sophie Lichterman
No, somebod. Somebody. When I. When I. They was like, trying to. It was. It's like a. In like a. Like a. For like, pill. Pill hiding for a pet. Somebody gave it to me as, like, a thing, but turns out Truman will eat a. Eat a. Eat a pill out of my hand. Just a la carte. She doesn't need the truru.
- [51:00]
Ed Zitron
Perfect dog.
- [51:01]
Sophie Lichterman
She's angel. She's a good girl. Well, yeah, you did the. You did the mailbag. You did the key.
- [51:06]
Ed Zitron
Did the mailbag. We will do another one of these in maybe a month. Or two. I love doing this. I love hearing from all of you and genuinely thank you to all the listeners who reach out regularly because if I say so much as something negative about myself, you are all very reassuring and you refuse to accept it. I love you all genuinely. I'm blessed to have you. So thank you for listening and yeah, until next time. Sophie, thank you for being on with me.
- [51:32]
Sophie Lichterman
Of course, of course. I can't wait to teach you more about basketball property. Ian are the group chat has decided you're you're in the club. You made it.
- [51:41]
Ed Zitron
Hell yeah. I look forward to it. Thank you for listening everyone. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Osawski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects@matosowski.com m a t t o s o w s k-I.com you can email me at ezetteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat wheresyoured at to visit the Discord and go to R betteroffline to check out our Reddit thank you so much for listening.
- [52:23]
Sophie Lichterman
Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:55]
Colgate Advertiser
Colgate Total may make your favorite toothpaste, but it's also a science innovator committed to oral health. For instance, the Colgate Total Active Prevention System with a cutting edge toothbrush, refreshing antibacterial mouthwash and a reformulated toothpaste. With a technology so innovative it won the 2024 Edison Patent Award, the Colgate Total Active prevention system is 15 times more effective at reducing bacteria buildup to fight the root cause of oral health problems in six weeks starting from week one. Compared to a non antibacterial fluoride toothpaste and flat trim toothbrush. Talk about science. Get the Colgate Total Active Prevention System today so you can be dentist ready Shop now by visiting shop.colgate.com total.
- [53:41]
Hope Woodard
Have you ever thought about going Voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind Behind Voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible. It's customizable and it's a personal process.
- [54:09]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.
- [54:13]
Hope Woodard
Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:22]
Amy Robach
Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here, Diddy's former protege, television personality Danity King alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.
- [54:35]
TJ Holmes
It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.
- [54:43]
Amy Robach
Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:52]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
The Made for this Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well being and then climb that mountain.
- [55:07]
Unknown Speaker
You will never, never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say. Hey, this is my mountain.
- [55:14]
Ed Zitron
This is the struggle.
- [55:15]
Made for this Mountain Advertiser
Listen to Made for this mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [55:22]
Ed Zitron
This is an iHeart podcast.