Podcast Summary:

BETTER! Muscle, Mobility, Metabolism & (Peri)Menopause – The Real History of Women Who Lift: From Cardio Bunny to Muscle Mommy
Host: Dr. Stephanie Estima
Guest: Michael Joseph Gross (Author of Stronger: The Untold Story of Muscle in Our Lives)
Date: November 24, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners on a fascinating "geeky magic carpet ride" through the history of muscle—its cultural significance, myths, and relevance to women's health—especially through peri/menopause and aging. Dr. Stephanie Estima and journalist/author Michael Joseph Gross dive deep into how ancient and modern societies have regarded muscle, the myths (including fears of "bulk"), and the urgent, empowering call to see muscle as central to health, independence, and identity. The conversation is especially tailored for women navigating midlife, highlighting the lost lineage of strong women and calling for a shift toward weight training as a core element of health.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historic Cultural Views of Muscle ([06:25]–[11:58])

• Ancient Greeks & Romans:
  • The Greeks initially had little concept of muscle’s function—muscles were thought to be insulation or cushions (Aristotle said glutes are like “a built-in bean bag chair” [07:38]).
  • Only in the Renaissance did anatomists realize that muscle (not just tendons or mystical forces) moved the body.
• Myth of Brain vs. Brawn:
  • For 2,000 years, a cultural "tug of war" between doctors (advocating moderation, balance) and trainers (championing ambition, excellence) has painted muscle as dim-witted, threatening, or dangerous—a myth persisting to this day ([15:25]).
• Beauty and Virtue:
  • Ancient philosophy often conflated inner virtue/goodness with outer physical beauty, influencing persistent modern biases (e.g., “what is beautiful is good” [11:58]).

Quote:

"They even said that if you built too much mass, it would smother your soul." — Michael Joseph Gross [15:25]

2. Muscle as a Demand-Based System ([11:58]–[15:25])

• Scarcity vs. Abundance:
  • Medicine used to treat muscle as a “battery” to conserve, but science shows muscle is demand-based: "The more we ask of it, the more it gives to us” ([10:50]).
• Neuroscience Backs Muscle–Mind Connection:
  • Lifting weights grows the posterior cingulate cortex (empathy, memory), helps fight depression, and slows cognitive decline—benefits unique to resistance (not aerobic) exercise.

Quote:

“What’s anabolic for the body is also anabolic for the brain... Lifting weights actually makes you more empathic, more connected, it can make you smarter.” — Michael Joseph Gross [19:57]

3. Why the "Brain vs. Brawn" Myth Persists ([23:42]–[29:56])

• Prejudice and Class:
  • The divide endures as "prejudice that takes up residence in that dark part of our hearts that we don’t let light in" ([24:28]).
  • Cultural layering: manual work (muscle) historically linked to lower class; intellectual work to higher class and less physicality ([28:12]).
  • Education paradox: Data shows college grads are more likely to weight train than those without high school diplomas.
• Social Support as a Key:
  • The strongest predictor of engaging in resistance training is having supportive people who care ([27:33]).

4. Medicine’s Historical Failure—and a Revolution for Older Women ([35:36]–[47:34])

• Neglect by Public Health:
  • Medicine underestimates muscle's role in aging and recovery, especially for women, older adults, and those with chronic illness.
  • Dr. Maria Fiataroni Singh’s research in the '80s/90s proved even 90-year-olds in nursing homes could double or triple leg strength with high-intensity resistance training ([40:39]):
    • 374% max strength gain; 174% average.
    • Functional gains did not require “functional” training—just getting stronger was transformative.
  • Pop culture focused on steroid scandals (Ben Johnson/1988 Seoul Olympics), muscle dysmorphia (the "Adonis Complex"), ignoring breakthroughs in geriatric strength.

Quote:

“Functional results don’t depend on functional training. Just making people stronger alone gives them the wherewithal to do more of what they want to do.” — Michael Joseph Gross [46:35]

5. The Media's Skewed Lens ([51:03]–[54:55])

• Far more attention in major media (e.g., NYT) to muscle dysmorphia than to sarcopenia or aging-related strength loss—despite the vastly greater public health burden.
• Pop culture's fixation on “freakish” muscle and risks has fueled societal fears about women and muscle.

6. The Legacy of Strong Women: Forgotten Herstory ([68:06]–[75:57])

• Jan Todd’s Story:
  • World-record powerlifter, first woman to coach both men’s and women’s national teams, later a historian who recovered the lineage of strong women.
  • Her personal transformation: “My concerns about my appearance fell away in the face of my own goals” ([64:00]).
  • Faced and overcame stigma, “women shouldn’t be strong,” and family/friends warning her “your uterus will fall out.”
• Historical Records:
  • Victorian era: Women performed dips, pull-ups—records from 1828 show women doing advanced calisthenics in full skirts ([70:31]).
  • Circus strongwoman Katie Sandwina: Admired for both strength and femininity—“the Marilyn Monroe of strongwomen.”
• Role Models Matter:
  • The force of example—seeing others (in family, media, culture) embrace strength—drives women to pursue strength themselves.

7. Muscle and the Next Generation: Parenting, Teens, and Social Support ([77:45]–[81:38])

• Modeling over Lecture:
  • The biggest influence on kids is seeing strength training modeled as normal, enjoyable, and inclusive—especially for non-athletes.
  • Object-control activities (lifting, throwing) as the best predictor of sustained activity into adulthood.

Quote:

“Muscle is not just about how you look. Muscle is even more about who you are, it’s about what you can do. Muscle is how we are able to act upon the world.” — Michael Joseph Gross [79:25]

8. Starting Strength Training in (Peri)Menopause: Practical Tips ([82:53]–[89:47])

• First Step: Social Connection
  • Find someone you trust who lifts—ask for help, company, or encouragement.
• Push Medical Providers:
  • Have candid conversations. Ask for a referral to an exercise physiologist, share literature, and encourage providers to update their own knowledge.
• Resource:
  • Reference the Global Consensus Statement on Exercise Prescription for specific evidence-based exercise recommendations for chronic disease, aging, and menopause.

Quote:

“Weight training needs to be a part of our conversations with our doctors … even if it only makes them uncomfortable for a couple of minutes … that’s the only way we’re going to find our ways to being the stronger selves we can be.” — Michael Joseph Gross [84:15]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The more we ask of muscle, the more it gives to us.” — Michael Joseph Gross [10:50]
• “If you built too much mass, it would smother your soul.” — Michael Joseph Gross [15:25]
• “What’s anabolic for the body is also anabolic for the brain.” — Michael Joseph Gross [19:57]
• “Her name was Katie Sandwina… She would carry [her husband] across the ring and perform the manual of arms with him… But she also presented as your ideal lady.” — Michael Joseph Gross [70:31]
• “My concerns about my appearance fell away in the face of my own goals.” — Jan Todd (as recounted by Gross) [64:00]
• “You might say it’s our birthright.” — Dr. Stephanie Estima [89:47]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:25] — The slow discovery of muscle's true function from ancient Greece to the Renaissance.
• [11:58] — The persistent myth of muscle as a “battery” vs. a demand-based system.
• [15:25] — The "brain vs. brawn" dichotomy and its roots.
• [19:57] — The science proving strength is good for both brain and body.
• [27:33] — The key role of social support in women's adoption of weight training.
• [40:39] — Dr. Maria Fiataroni Singh’s revolutionary research on strength in the elderly.
• [51:03] — Pop culture focusing on “dangerous” muscle over positive breakthroughs.
• [64:00] — Jan Todd’s internal transformation as a lifter.
• [70:31] — Victorian strongwomen and historical role models.
• [75:57] — Reclaiming the lost female lineage of strength.
• [77:45] — Talking to teens and modeling strength at home.
• [82:53] — Practical steps for perimenopausal women starting to lift.

Flow & Tone

The tone is warm, inclusive, slightly nerdy, and myth-busting, with Dr. Stephanie’s “you got this” encouragement for female listeners and Gross’s measured depth and historical insight. The episode is densely packed with both scholarship and actionable advice—a rare blend that brings together science, history, personal narrative, and public health.

Actionable Takeaways

• Muscle isn’t just aesthetic—it’s central to health, longevity, function, and even cognitive resilience.
• Women have a deep, rich history of strength—claim it and be proud.
• Muscle is a “demand-based system”—challenge it regularly, especially in (peri)menopause.
• Support and role modeling (in families, friendships, health care) are critical to changing habits.
• Push your doctors for up-to-date, individualized advice—share new guidelines, demand referrals, and be proactive.
• Model strength for your kids, daughters, and community—the lineage starts (or continues) with you.

For further reading and resources:

• Jan Todd’s work: Physical Culture and the Body Purposive Exercise in the Lives of American women, 1800–1870.
• The Global Consensus Statement for exercise prescriptions (check the show notes).

Final Thought:
Embracing muscle is not a new trend for women—it’s a return to a powerful, often-hidden heritage. Stronger women aren’t an aberration; they are the continuation of a proud, necessary tradition.