Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society

Episode: Inside the Royal Harems of the Ottoman Empire

Host: Dr. Kate Lister
Guest: Dr. Michael Talbot, Professor in Ottoman History, University of Greenwich
Release Date: December 12, 2025

Overview:

This episode delves into the mysterious, politicized, and much-misunderstood world of the royal harems of the Ottoman Empire. Kate Lister and Dr. Michael Talbot strip away centuries of myth, Orientalist fantasy, and Western media distortion to reveal the brutal realities—and the remarkable political power—of women living within the Sultan’s harem. With humor and sensitivity, they discuss enslavement, sexual politics, unique opportunities for social mobility, and the very real power wielded by figures such as Hurrem Sultan during the era known as the Sultanate of Women.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ottoman Empire: Context and Misperception

[03:26–07:21]

• Dr. Talbot describes his path to Ottoman studies, sparked by a sense of the empire as a Western “blind spot.”
  • “Why is it we don’t know anything about them? Why aren’t we taught about them? It’s a strange thing.” – Dr. Michael Talbot [04:08]
• The Ottoman Empire (1299–1922) was a global power, spanning three continents for over 600 years.
• Western historical focus often skips the Ottomans, despite their influence on and interaction with the Roman, Mongol, Greek, and British empires.
• Western perceptions remain skewed by Orientalism, propagated especially by the Victorians:
  • “The theorist Edward Said called [it] Orientalism… sexuality is a huge part of it, either hypersexuality or repressed sexuality, but it’s also linked to power.” – Dr. Talbot [07:51]

2. Orientalist Myths Versus Historical Reality

[07:21–12:03]

• Persistent tropes: the “hyper-erotic” harem vs. the “sexually repressive” East.
• Disney’s Aladdin is cited as a recent example steeped in these stereotypes:
  • “It’s barbaric. But hey, it’s home.” – Kate Lister quoting Aladdin [10:51]
• Harems did exist, but not at all like the paintings and 19th-century Western fantasies.
  • “The harem is a crucial institution to the state... It does not exist in the way that it was fantasized about by Western writers and artists.” – Dr. Talbot [11:42]

3. The Realities of the Harem: Institution & Structure

[12:03–16:44]

• The term “harem” derives from a root meaning “forbidden” or “bounded”; access was rigorously restricted.
• Western men were strictly forbidden entry; rare exceptions for Western women (e.g., Mary Wortley Montagu).
• Early harems included royal wives from political alliances, but after 1481 (Mehmed the Conqueror’s reign), the harem was populated almost exclusively by enslaved women.
  • “Almost all of the enslaved women who serve as concubines within these households are white. So you have to be rich to be able to afford them.” – Dr. Talbot [15:18]
• Most concubines came from the Black Sea region, Caucasus, or were taken as war spoils or by corsair raids.

4. The Nature and Function of Slavery in the Ottoman Empire

[18:39–23:12]

• Ottoman slavery resembled the Roman system more than chattel plantation slavery; enslaved people could wield enormous power.
  • “The most important people in the Ottoman Empire, apart from the sultan, are enslaved people.” – Dr. Talbot [19:36]
• The devshirme system forcibly conscripted Balkan Christian boys for military and administration.
• All imperial women, including the most powerful, began their palace lives as slaves.
• Eunuchs (often trafficked from Egypt and Central/East Africa) administered the harem and wielded significant political influence.
  • “Some of the most powerful people in the Ottoman Empire are the chief black eunuchs... Not a life... any of them would have chosen.” – Dr. Talbot [22:40]
• Sexual exclusivity was expected; the sultan’s property included sexual rights over enslaved women.

5. Life Inside the Palace Harem

[23:12–29:29]

• The palace harem housed hundreds of enslaved women; only a few would ever interact sexually with the Sultan.
  • “A lot of it is luck that you’re at the entertainment in his private chambers and he likes the look of you.” – Dr. Talbot [25:14]
• Women took on roles such as dancers, musicians, and teachers.
• Bearing a child for the Sultan elevated a woman’s status dramatically and removed her from the “waiting pool.”
• Under Islamic law, children of the sultan and his enslaved concubines were legitimate.
• The wife/concubine distinction was blurred: favorites (Haseki) held immense power, but formal marriage (with its rights for women) was rare, to avoid legal complications.
  • “You can’t really have a woman coming and divorcing the Sultan. So it would be a bit awkward...” – Dr. Talbot [29:02]

6. The Sultanate of Women & Notable Figures (Hurrem Sultan/Roxelana)

[29:29–36:28]

• Hurrem Sultan (Roxelana) was the first and most famous favorite, transforming the role of women in the harem into one of genuine political power.
  • She moved the harem into Topkapi Palace, giving women proximity to the Sultan and his council.
  • “She can push for [appointments or favors]... it’s a huge power play on her part.” – Dr. Talbot [31:36]
• Women received training in literacy, art, and performance to converse and entertain at court.
• “Sultanate of Women” (1534–early 18th century): period during which favorites and, especially, Queen Mothers (Valide Sultan) often orchestrated policy, served as regents, ran patronage networks, and built major social works.
  • “Some of these women not only act as senior advisors, but... regents to their sons.” – Dr. Talbot [34:03]

7. Intrigue, Social Mobility, and the Harem’s Political Complexity

[36:28–38:55]

• Ultimate ambition: to become Queen Mother. Being a favorite was powerful, but unstable—only the Sultan’s mother had near-unchallengeable influence.
  • Hurrem engineered the demise of her stepson Mustafa to secure succession for her own son.
• The harem was rife with intrigue: “It must have been bitchy as hell.” – Kate Lister [38:18]
• Power plays could also be fatal for eunuchs and concubines; court intrigue regularly led to murder.

8. Life for the Majority: Beyond the Power Players

[40:52–43:09]

• Most harem women, and even eunuchs, did not attain power; many simply faded into the palace’s domestic machinery.
• Some were freed, especially after a sultan’s death; others married staff, or remained servants.
• Chief eunuchs could also rise to astonishing heights of wealth and influence; those who failed to gain favor remained teachers or caretakers.

9. The Decline and Abolition of Harems and Slavery

[43:09–46:46]

• Women’s formal political power declined after 1715; state institutions moved away from palace-centric governance.
• Slavery, especially of women from the Caucasus and Black Sea, persisted into the late 19th century, only formally abolished in the early 20th.
• Official laws and the closure of slave markets often just drove the institution underground; not all slaves were immediately freed.

10. Gender, Sexuality, and Same-Sex Relationships

[46:52–52:03]

• No institutional harem for women (i.e., women with male concubines); harems were deeply patriarchal in structure and justification.
• Attractive young boys were sometimes retained as dancers, reflecting complex and fluid Ottoman sexual norms for men.
• Lesbianism was less discussed or codified, but some evidence (e.g., the poet Leyla Hanım) does exist.
• Legal and religious frameworks privileged “making babies” (with women), and same-sex relationships—even with enslaved men—were technically illicit, never formalized into a “harem” institution.

11. Wrap-Up and Resources

[53:16–53:39]

• Dr. Talbot shares resources:
  • University of Greenwich website for bio and contact.
  • Offers reading list for deeper study.
• Dr. Lister teases future episodes and encourages listener feedback.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Orientalism and Persistent Tropes:

  • “It’s a way that… people, including in our own times, have used to explain why the west… has risen to supremacy and why the formerly powerful Ottomans… lost their power… sexuality is a huge part of it.” – Dr. Talbot [07:51]

• On the Closed Nature of the Harem:

  • “The whole point of the harem is that it’s a closed off institution… out of reach to everyone who isn’t the responsible male of that household.” – Dr. Talbot [12:06]

• On Social Mobility Through Slavery:

  • “Your chances of social mobility as a peasant from Yorkshire are zero… whereas in the Ottoman Empire, you could be… the favorite of the Sultan within 30 years.” – Dr. Talbot [33:15]

• On the Paradox of Power and Enslavement:

  • “The risks come with reward. If you were the chief black eunuch… you were one of the most powerful people in the empire.” – Dr. Talbot [42:40]

• On Gendered Double Standards:

  • “If you said to any woman, you can have 400 virgins… That’s just a nightmare situation!” – Kate Lister [52:03]

Useful Timestamps

• 03:26 — Start of main discussion, Dr. Talbot’s introduction
• 05:33 — Overview of the Ottoman Empire’s span and power
• 07:21 — Orientalism and Western misunderstandings
• 11:34 — The harem as an institution, not Western fantasy
• 15:18 — Racial and economic dynamics of the harem
• 19:36 — Enslaved people as the Ottoman ruling elite
• 23:32 — How Ottoman harems functioned
• 29:29 — Legal status and politics of favorites
• 31:36 — Hurrem Sultan (Roxelana) revolutionizes the harem’s role
• 34:03 — The Sultanate of Women and female regency
• 40:52 — The fate of most harem women
• 43:09 — Changing roles and abolition of the harem
• 46:52 — No harems for women or queer equivalents
• 53:16 — Recommendations and listener resources

Takeaway

This episode dismantles centuries of Orientalist myth, revealing the Ottoman harem as a space of both deep oppression and astonishing female power and agency. What emerges is a complex, sometimes contradictory story: the harem as a locus of enslavement, but also as a unique avenue for political ascension and generational change within one of the world’s great empires.

Recommended for:
Listeners interested in women’s history, sexuality, power, Ottoman politics, or the dismantling of romanticized “exotic” historical narratives.