Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society

Episode: Sex and Scandal of Medieval Royals
Host: Dr. Kate Lister
Guest: Helen Carr
Date: November 14, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, sex historian Dr. Kate Lister welcomes historian and author Helen Carr to pull back the velvet curtain on medieval royal bedsheets. Together, they anatomize the personal and political entanglements of Isabella of France ("the She Wolf of France") and Edward II, exploring what made the 14th century so scandalous, the roles of royal favorites like Piers Gaveston and Hugh Despenser, the intersection of sex and politics, and the consequences for women and men who played—and broke—the rules of power. Expect bawdy banter, gruesome executions, and a sharp look at how personal relationships shaped the fate of kingdoms.

Main Themes and Structure

• Introduction to the "She Wolf of France" and 14th-century upheaval
• The Black Death and its surprising social implications
• Edward II: kingly inadequacies, royal favorites, and sexuality
• Isabella's transformation from sidelined queen to political powerhouse
• Scandal, plot, and bloody retribution: Hugh Despenser and Roger Mortimer
• The mythic and grisly fate of Edward II
• The wheel of fortune for scandalous royals: rise, fall, and aftermath

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The 14th Century: Upheaval in Every Realm

(Timestamp: 04:40–08:27)

• Helen Carr describes the 14th century as "a mixture of chivalry and tournaments and jousting and the Hundred Years War and Edward III dressing up as a pheasant at parties. Then you've got the Black Death and you've got the great famine and there's war and there's war with Scotland, and you've got a king like Edward II who's constantly getting everything wrong." (05:01)
• The Black Death is compared to COVID-19 but described as many orders of magnitude more devastating, with an estimated mortality rate around 50%.

Women, Work, and the Black Death

(Timestamp: 07:15–08:27)

• The pandemic's demographic destruction compelled social change, notably for women:

  • "You saw women stepping into roles that men would traditionally occupy. Like, a lot more women became armorers ... [others] went into brewhouses, so effectively the early pubs, and it was women who were brewing...and created these spaces..." – Helen Carr

• Kate Lister, tongue-in-cheek: "So what we need to destroy the patriarchy, really, is a global pandemic with a 50 mortality rate..." (08:09)

Edward II: A King and His "Favorites"

(Timestamp: 11:52–18:02)

• Edward II is framed as likeable but inept, plagued by insecurity and reliance on close male friends, particularly Piers Gaveston.
  • "He didn’t understand that as king he was supposed to have a good relationship with his nobility...Instead, he had a habit of putting his favorites first...He was fun, he was a nice guy to be around...but he didn’t get on with his nobility." – Helen Carr (12:13)
• Gaveston, of lower nobility and possibly not even English, was treated like a co-king, alarming the aristocracy.

Edward II and Piers Gaveston: Love or Brotherhood?

(Timestamp: 20:58–23:36)

• Kate: “I know that we’re not supposed to speculate...Do you think it was something more?”
• Helen: “I think it was something more, but...not necessarily compared to our modern experience of what a male romantic relationship could look like...It was a very affectionate, deeply loving, tender male relationship that was modeled on...literary trends...But what it was, even by contemporary standards, was queer.” (21:16)

Gaveston’s Downfall

(Timestamp: 23:36–26:14)

• Gaveston’s fatal error: lack of discretion and making enemies among the nobility with mocking nicknames, ostentatious display at public ceremonies, and even appearing above Isabella at her own coronation.
  • “If you’re going to piss off the Earl of Lancaster...don’t call the guy a peasant. And that’s exactly what Gaveston did.” – Helen Carr (24:03)
• Despite scandal, Isabella seemed to get along with Gaveston, and only after his death did she and Edward II grow closer.

Power Shifts: From Gaveston to Hugh Despenser

(Timestamp: 29:07–32:11)

• After Gaveston’s fall, Edward II becomes close to Hugh Despenser the Younger—who is depicted as even more grasping, cruel, and greedy.
  • “Hugh Despenser the Younger...He’s a complete shit. He goes after the widows...He coerces them out of their wealth and if they’re not coerced, he starts using threats...One noblewoman, he’d break her arms and legs to get her to sign off her land.” – Helen Carr (30:22)
• Dispenser’s gravest mistake: going after Queen Isabella’s own estates.

Isabella's Political Agency and the Seeds of Rebellion

(Timestamp: 32:11–38:49)

• Initially a supportive queen, Isabella increasingly acts with agency, especially after Dispenser targets her.
• Sent to France to negotiate, Isabella seizes her chance, allying with Roger Mortimer—her "Medieval Lothario." Together, they plot an invasion to remove Dispenser.
  • “Damn, that’s ballsy, isn’t it? That is a hell of a power move.” – Kate (35:45)
• Edward’s decision to send his son to France gives Isabella a crucial pawn for her rebellion.

The Fall of Edward II (and Despenser’s Grisly End)

(Timestamp: 38:49–44:18)

• Isabella and Mortimer build an army and invade England, targeting Despenser, whom the nobility largely despise.
• The invasion sparks a violent purge of Despenser’s allies; Despenser is captured, subjected to an excruciating execution—hanged, drawn, and quartered, genitals cast into the fire.
  • “They have Dispenser...wear a crown of thorns. He’s completely naked and he’s watching all these entrails come out. And then they take off his penis and they throw them all onto a furnace below.” – Helen (43:34)
• Edward II is deposed and imprisoned, his reign at an end.

The Death of Edward II: Poker or Propaganda?

(Timestamp: 46:10–51:46)

• The infamous tale of Edward’s death by hot poker is debunked:
  • “The rumour is that he was killed by anal penetration with a red hot poker... What do you think about that, Helen?”
  • “I think it’s rubbish. It’s complete rubbish...It’s a mimetic, literary trend...probably he was smothered in his sleep. That’s what I think happened.” – Helen (48:53–51:46)
• The hot poker legend is seen as literary invention, possibly with homophobic overtones in later retellings.

The Wheel of Fortune: Isabella and Mortimer's Rise and Fall

(Timestamp: 52:10–57:59)

• Having overthrown Edward, Isabella and Mortimer enjoy an open relationship and immense power, but overreach leads to their downfall.
  • They fabricate evidence to execute Edmund, Earl of Kent (Edward II’s half-brother), sparking outrage and hardening enemies.
  • Edward III, coming of age, leads a coup and Mortimer is executed as “someone who tried to steal the responsibility of kingship.” Isabella retires to a nunnery—alive, but stripped of power.
• “It’s the wheel of fortune...sometimes you’re at the top...and then you go crash at the bottom.” – Helen Carr (52:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You know that if historical chroniclers are calling you the she Wolf of France, then you are doing something right.”
  – Kate Lister (02:28)

• “So what we need to destroy the patriarchy, really, is a global pandemic with a 50 mortality rate and then we might...be getting somewhere.”
  – Kate (08:09)

• “I think probably not. I think it was a very affectionate, deeply loving, tender male relationship ... Even by their standards, they were in love. That was a queer thing because it was against the norm.”
  – Helen Carr on Edward II & Gaveston (21:16-23:36)

• “Isabella is keen to get Dispenser down to London because she wants his execution to be like, big centre stage. This is like the Nebworth of executions.”
  – Helen (42:09)

• “They like to make sure he was dead and then some. Wow.”
  – Kate (43:34)

• “I think she was genuinely intimidated by Hugh Dispenser and, as we know as women, what it’s like to be around a dangerous and aggressive man and how terrifying that is.”
  – Helen (38:49)

• “The rumour is that he was killed by anal penetration with a red hot poker...I think it’s rubbish. It’s complete rubbish.”
  – Helen (48:53-48:56)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:40 – Why the 14th century is so wild and captivating
• 06:41 – The scope and devastation of the Black Death
• 07:15 – Post-plague gender roles and societal changes
• 12:13 – Edward II’s failure as a ruler and relationship with Gaveston
• 21:16 – Gaveston: lover or “brother”? Queer history in context
• 24:03 – Gaveston’s social blunders and coronation scandal
• 29:07 – Rise of Hugh Despenser; antagonizing Isabella
• 35:25 – Isabella meets Mortimer; plotting the invasion
• 42:09 – Dispenser’s execution: spectacle and brutality
• 46:26 – Edward II’s abdication and death; poking holes in the poker myth
• 52:10 – Isabella and Mortimer’s brief rule and tragic fall
• 57:59 – Isabella’s exile and the legacy of the “She Wolf of France”

Tone and Style

Engaging, irreverent, and accessible: Kate Lister and Helen Carr blend bawdy humor, sharp wit, and deep expertise. Conversations range from scholarly analysis to exuberant asides, always foregrounding the human drama behind the history.

For Further Exploration

• Helen Carr’s book: "Sceptered: A New History of the 14th Century"
• Helen’s documentary for History Hit: “Edward II: England’s Worst Monarch”
• Follow Helen Carr on Instagram and Substack for more medieval mayhem

Listeners will come away with a richer understanding of how medieval scandal, sex, and political intrigue shaped the trajectory of English history—and how much, in society and relationships, truly never changes.