Transcript

A (0:00)

So, as some of you listeners may know, a few months ago, Ro and I started something called the Wilder Community, which is kind of an online village where people like us, who want to find our true nature, even if it peels us away from culture, can get together, commune, make friends, and do things.

B (0:19)

We have all kinds of regular events in there that are just so fun. We have a weekly hang where we get together and we have conversation and we make art in our own little rooms, in our own little places. But all together, there are group meditations that Martha leads that are crazy powerful, and there are just all kinds of, like, monthly themes and, like, personal development stuff that we work through together, and just a hive of activity and connection among really wonderful people.

A (0:52)

Yeah. So if you're feeling drawn to belong to a community in these troubled times, give Wilder a try. It's@wildercommunity.com or. And we hope we'll see you there. Welcome to Bewildered. I'm Martha Beck, here with Rowan Mangan. At this crazy moment in history, a lot of people are feeling bewildered. But that actually may be a sign we're on track. Human culture teaches us to come to consensus, but nature, our own true nature, helps us come to our senses. Rowan and I believe that the best way to figure it all out is by going through bewilderment into the wild on it.

B (1:34)

That's why we're here.

A (1:38)

Hi, I'm Martha Beck.

B (1:39)

And I'm Rowan Mangan. And this is another episode of Bewildered, the podcast for people trying to figure it out. Isn't it, Marty?

A (1:46)

Yes. And so what are you trying to figure out at this moment in your life?

B (1:52)

Do you ever, like, think, is everyone as weird as me? And they just don't talk about it constantly, you know, where you do that thing where you're just like, this is what my life is like. And I'm familiar with how odd it is, but I don't really see that oddness represented around me.

A (2:13)

What oddness do you speak of in specifics?

B (2:17)

All right, so what I'm thinking. What I'm thinking of is something that happened last week where I was in New York with Lila at our apartment, and our babysitter came over. Lovely young woman. And I. In that morning, I had been a little bit sleepy. Lila hasn't slept well. And so I was. I was sort of a little bit taken aback when she turned up, because I might have just dozed off a.

Summary

Bewildered Podcast – "Best of Bewildered: How to Get Started"

Hosts: Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan
Date: December 11, 2024

Episode Overview

In this lively and heartfelt episode, Martha Beck and Rowan Mangan dig into the common human experience of resistance—that bewildering inertia we feel when we avoid doing the very things that bring us the most joy and satisfaction. Along the way, they explore the nature of transitioning between different "parts" of ourselves, laugh through stories of daily parenting and embarrassment, and offer practical wisdom for embracing the quirky realities of being human. Guest questioner Josephine’s struggle to “get started” anchors a wide-ranging, honest, and funny discussion about self-kindness, curiosity, and creating welcoming transitions in our lives.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Embracing Our True Nature vs. Cultural Conditioning

Theme: The show’s purpose is about setting aside societal expectations ("the controlling voice of the culture") and reconnecting with our instinctive, individual “true nature.”
Martha and Rowan emphasize that feeling bewildered or out of step might actually be a sign you’re on the right path.
- "Human culture teaches us to come to consensus, but nature, our own true nature, helps us come to our senses." — Martha Beck [00:56]
Living in alignment with your "deepest truths" sometimes means "looking weird," which the hosts approach with humor.

2. Recognizing and Normalizing Everyday Awkwardness

Rowan shares a hilarious and vulnerable story about accidentally exposing herself to her babysitter thanks to toddler Lila's clinginess.
- "I don't like to wear underwear to bed ... so when my pants were pulled down ... in front of a babysitter ... well ... We didn't mention it." — Rowan [04:36]
- Martha responds with her trademark wit, imagining Morrison comes out "like Venus in the Botticelli," making light of embarrassment.
This segues into discussing how everyone (not just Rowan) feels “weird,” but that weirdness is often universal—just rarely spoken about.

3. Parenting and the Lessons of Transition

Lila, Martha and Rowan’s toddler, is the muse for stories about the brutality and comedy of raising a two-year-old.
- Martha describes "Lila's brutal strength" and “being savagely beaten about the head and face” with a hairbrush in a display of role-reversed play—underscoring how children experience adults’ attempts to help.
  - “She goes, ‘We’re just going to get it out of your eyes.’ Bam. My hair is not long enough to go in my eyes.” — Martha [09:11]
- Rowan reflects on how apologizing becomes mimicry for Lila, illustrating how kids internalize adult behaviors.
They note that parenting a toddler revolves around navigating and smoothing the constant, drama-filled transitions—useful wisdom for everyone.

4. Listener Question: Why Is It So Hard to Start Joyful Things? ([13:47])

Josephine's Question: “Why do I resist doing things that are good for me and bring me joy? I dread them at first but always feel better after.”
Both Martha and Rowan instantly relate, naming activities they love (like physical therapy or writing) but always resist starting.
- “I will do everything I can to not go in there ... part of me seems to be afraid ...” — Martha [14:28]
- “You don’t want to get in the bath, you don’t want to get out of the bath.” — Rowan [15:32]
Insight: The resistance is universal—it’s part of human nature to experience inertia and reluctance when transitioning between activities or “selves.”
- “The culture assumes we are unitary ... but I don’t think we are unitary in that way.” — Rowan [16:12]

5. Internal Parts and The Challenge of Transition

Discussion turns to Internal Family Systems (IFS) and parts psychology, suggesting we are made of many “selves”—the “writer,” “admin chick,” “artist self,” “Hestia” (goddess of the hearth), etc.
- “Every part of you is a whole and complete personality … like if you want to talk to the part of you that loves to cuddle in bed, it’s literally a different person from the one who wants to jump out of bed and get going.” — Martha [18:27]
These parts find it hard to hand off control to each other, creating resistance at transitions.
Inertia isn’t laziness—it’s natural: “A body when set in motion will continue in the same direction until acted on by an equal and opposite force.” — Martha [17:54]

6. The Power of Curiosity and Gentle Self-Transition

The hosts explore using curiosity as a tool to “prime” transitions—both with children and ourselves.
- With toddler Lila: “Ro just quietly picks up a book and starts reading … curiosity pulls her into the state of wanting to be reading books.” — Martha [26:44]
Drawing the parallel to adult life: to make the transition desirable, spark curiosity rather than use force or guilt.
- “Maybe curiosity is the force that is powerful enough to switch the inertia of a state.” — Martha [28:18]
Be gentle and prepare yourself for the transition; creating small, enjoyable rituals or rewards smoothes the way.

7. Reward vs. Punishment: What Actually Helps Us Get Started

They point out that culturally, we default to punishing ourselves (e.g., using writing apps that delete words if you pause) but research—and animal trainers—demonstrate that reward is far more effective.
- “Reward as reinforcement is 51 times more powerful than punishment.” — Martha [38:52]
- Memorable detail: Pig clicker training and “clickety-clack” writing apps reinforce this: little joys and shiny rewards actually work!
For enjoyable transitions, they suggest:
- Set up a pleasant environment in advance (“action priming”)
- Give yourself a reward before, during, and after the activity
- Build social accountability (writing in synchronized zoom groups)
- Respect and comfort your “reluctant” self as you approach the transition

8. Acknowledgement: This Is Human Nature

It isn’t a flaw or a problem; it’s “human nature”—not culture, not mere laziness. All humans, across cultures, experience this difficulty with transitions.
- “The reluctance to change states, having to be ... is universally true for all cultures.” — Martha [31:00]
Pushing yourself or others makes resistance worse; gentleness, self-kindness, and creative transitions are key.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"Do you ever, like, think, is everyone as weird as me? And they just don't talk about it constantly, you know?"
— Rowan [01:52]
"Human nature... that is exactly where this falls. Because it's not—a lion won't behave this way."
— Rowan [29:55]
"If you want to switch states... don't be mean or pushy with yourself. It does not work."
— Martha [33:00]
"Reward as a reinforcement for behavior is 51 times more powerful than punishment... Just use carrots. Right?"
— Martha [38:52]
"We cannot ... We're a community that is suddenly now helping each other do things instead of in opposition."
— Martha [38:16]
"How do we bridge the two states?"
— Rowan [44:54]
"Being respectful and loving toward the part that doesn't want to stop, instead of saying, 'You have to stop now,' it's like, 'Oh, I so get that you love to paint...'"
— Martha [44:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:56 — Main theme: Culture vs. nature, and feeling “bewildered”
03:55 — Rowan's babysitter/pajama pants story
09:11 — Lila hairbrush parenting anecdote
13:47 — Listener Josephine’s question: Resistance to doing things that bring joy
17:54 — Inertia vs. laziness; parts of the self
23:10 — Artist self "bear out of a cage" metaphor
26:44 — Using curiosity to help transition (parenting trick)
31:00-33:00 — Human nature: Universal resistance to transition, the futility of pushiness
33:38 — Practical tips for transitions: prepping, rewards, action priming
38:52 — Rewards vs. punishment; clicker training
41:48 — Social support, group accountability
44:54 — Focusing on the fun and kindness in transitioning
46:29 — Shiny object trick for motivation

Tone and Style

The tone is candid, quirky, and playful, with Martha and Rowan laughing at themselves and each other while mining their real-life stumbles for insight and compassion. They combine gentle self-awareness with nerdy references, heartfelt reflections on motherhood, and offbeat practical advice. There’s no shame here—just encouragement to treat your bewilderment and reluctance with humor and kindness.

Takeaways

Resistance to starting joyful or healthy things is not a personal failing; it’s a universal aspect of human nature
Multiple “parts” within the self have inertia; gentle negotiation, preparation, and rewards help these transitions
Curiosity and small joys—even trivial ones—can powerfully pull us toward change
Being kind to yourself isn’t weak; it’s effective and necessary
Community—of inner parts, other people, or both—makes things easier and more fun

Stay wild—and go find a shiny object to spark your next joyful transition!