Podcast Summary

Bewildered

Episode: "I Want to Be the Person Who"

Hosts: Martha Beck and Rowan Mangan
Date: December 17, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this heartfelt and humor-laced conversation, Martha Beck and Rowan Mangan explore the impulse to want to "be the person who" does culturally admirable things—like keeping up with texts, making perfect school lunches, or living a well-organized life. Through personal stories, playful self-examination, and the recurring metaphor of zebras versus horses, they investigate the tension between societal expectations (culture) and authentic, instinctive desires (nature). The episode is an invitation to question whether we genuinely want to become certain types of people, or whether we're just longing to fit in—a call to stop trying to force ourselves to want what we don’t, and instead embrace our own wild, stripey natures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lure and Trap of Self-Improvement Narratives

• Intro (00:05-01:10):
  • The hosts joke about the phrase: “I want to be the person who…” and mock the cultural pressures placed on mothers and individuals to do the "right" things.
  • “Do I really want to be the mother who diligently stays up late defrosting mozzarella sticks for her daughter's school lunch?” – Rowan (00:16)
• Instagram and Zebras/Horses Metaphor Introduced:
  • The desire to be someone different draws comparison to wanting to be a horse when you’re really a zebra (00:57-01:10).

2. Personal Anecdotes: Failing at Cultural Scripts

• Emollients and Self-Image (02:05-10:33):
  • Martha recounts a comedic saga of disastrous skincare experiments sparked by online pressure to look younger, including mistaking soap for lotion in a hotel and the physical fallout.
  • “My face started to hurt a lot and it got quite blotchy...I truly believe it was soap.” – Martha (08:54)
  • Both hosts discuss minor acts of “criminality,” like accidentally keeping someone else’s lotion or sunglasses, poking at their own fallibility in the face of ideal standards.

3. The Onion-Poet Dilemma: Desire, Avoidance, and Self-Image

• Touching Onions vs. Writing Poetry (11:35-16:50):
  • Rowan describes her fantasy of being a prolific poet—while also making food, gardening, parenting, and running a business—believing she can “touch an onion” and write poetry, all in one day.
    • “I want to be the kind of poet that touches an onion.” – Rowan (12:38)
    • The tension: cooking is achievable, poetry exposes vulnerability.
  • Martha identifies the real struggle: the fear of doing what truly matters (like poetry) because failure feels riskier than with less-sacred tasks.
    • “You’re afraid to write poems because they matter to you.” – Martha (15:44)

4. Culture vs. Nature—Which Voice Are We Following?

• Dissecting Wants (20:18-36:14):
  • Rowan wants Martha to check texts more regularly; Martha is stunned by how easily Rowan keeps up with messages.
    • “It’s not a discreet thing…The phone is there and it goes in my watch.” – Rowan (22:15)
    • “I have to have, like, a runway and time to plan and deal with it before I check texts.” – Martha (22:42)
  • Both reflect on wanting to be a certain way for social approval or to avoid conflict, not out of genuine desire.
    • “I only want to be that person so you won’t get mad at me.” – Martha (32:00)

5. The Depth of Wanting: Do We Want to Want It, or Do We Just Think We Should?

• Double Removal and the Social Script (34:12-36:41):
  • Noteworthy realization: Many aspirations reflect a desire to want something, rather than true longing.
    • “I want to want to be that person. I want to want it, but I really don’t want it.” – Martha (34:11)
    • They distinguish between wants rooted in “culture” (external expectations) and “nature” (authentic impulses).

6. The Zebra-Horse Framework: Embracing One’s Own Nature

• Taming Nature for Culture (41:12-49:41):
  • Martha shares facts on animal domestication, illustrating how some traits can be tamed but never fully changed.
    • “You can tame an individual zebra…But if it has a baby, you’re going to have to start all over again.” – Martha (41:41)
  • The conclusion: Instead of forcing ourselves to be “horses” (socially ideal), we should accept our inner “zebra,” doing what’s necessary to participate in society but reserving most energy for our true self.
    • “I’m a zebra. I got stripes.” – Martha (38:45)
    • “Stop trying to force yourself to be domesticated, especially in areas where you’ve tried and tried and you know, it just doesn’t take.” – Martha (48:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We must imagine Sisyphus podcasting through it.” – Rowan (01:52)
• “You may touch an onion every fifth poem.” – Martha (16:18)
• “It’s like they can’t teach zebras to be ridden like horses very easily. Zebras just don’t have the temperament of horses.” – Martha (37:29)
• “Freedom from trying to force yourself to want something you don’t want is the point of this podcast.” – Martha (51:06)
• “Want what you want.” – Rowan (51:16)
• “You don’t want to be a horse. You want to want to be a horse. But you really don’t want to be a horse.” – Martha (48:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |---|---| | 00:05 – 01:19 | Opening banter; setting up the “I want to be the person who…” premise | | 02:05 – 10:33 | Emollients, internet advice, and the lotion/soap debacle | | 11:35 – 16:50 | Rowan’s poet/cook/parent fantasy; the fear behind truly meaningful work | | 20:18 – 24:44 | Text-checking habits and technology's grip (or lack thereof) | | 26:05 – 33:51 | The shame of not fitting the cultural mold—zebra vs. horse metaphor evolves | | 33:51 – 36:41 | Untangling authentic wants from culturally-imposed ones | | 41:12 – 49:41 | Deep dive on domestication, wildness, and finding ways to belong without betraying oneself | | 48:56 – 51:16 | The final rally: embrace your own nature, stop trying to be a horse |

Conclusion / Takeaways

• The desire to “be the person who” is often rooted in social conditioning, not authentic longing.
• Constantly wishing to want things we don’t truly want keeps us trapped in shame and self-rejection.
• Embracing your authentic, “wild” self—even when it doesn’t fit the cultural ideal—is key to genuine happiness.
• It's okay to set up supportive systems (reminders, checklists) to handle necessary but unnatural tasks, but you don’t have to try to become someone you’re not.
• Stop trying to “be a horse” when you’re a glorious, stripy, zebra.

Episode Mood & Tone

• Highly conversational, playful, with frequent humor and self-mockery.
• Thoughtful and earnest about deeper emotional truths.
• Dynamic interplay between hosts as life partners; affection, teasing, and support.

For Listeners

If you find yourself longing to “be the kind of person who…”—pause and ask if that desire springs from your true nature or just the voice of culture in your head. And as Martha and Rowan remind us: let your stripes show, and stay wild.

Stay wild!