You Have One Missed Call From Destiny

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bewildered — "You Have One Missed Call From Destiny"

Hosts: Martha Beck (A), Rowan Mangan (B)
Release Date: February 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Bewildered, Martha Beck and Rowan Mangan dive into the theme of reconnecting with our own intuition and learning to distinguish its true voice from the clamor of cultural conditioning. With characteristic humor and warmth, they explore why so many of us feel bewildered or disconnected from our sense of purpose, and how society's constant noise drowns out our inner knowing. The episode is filled with playful banter (such as orcas wearing salmon hats), personal anecdotes, and practical advice for tuning into our intuition, all delivered in the duo's signature style that balances depth with laughter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intuition vs. The Noise of Culture

• Central Metaphor: Our intuition is always trying to "call" us, but we’re stuck on the other line with culture.
  • “You don't take the call from intuition, because you are on the other line with culture.” (B, 00:05)
• Culture’s conditioning—voices of family, society, and internalized expectations—blocks our access to inner knowing.
  • “We're on a Zoom meeting with culture... Their little voices are always, like, coming at us... so plugged into that that we never even hear the call coming in.” (A, 20:14)
• The missed call metaphor is "tortured" throughout, providing both levity and clarity (see extended riffs, 15:34–20:44).

2. Humor & The Wearable Fish

• The episode opens with a playful tangent about orcas in the Northern Pacific wearing salmon on their heads, which becomes a recurring motif.
  • “I'm really trying hard to figure out why orcas in the Northern Pacific... picked up a habit of wearing salmon on their heads...” (A, 02:32)
• The orca/salmon motif becomes a symbol of tuning out culture and following one’s own quirky instincts.
  • “You are a funny, funny woman, Martha Beck. You were like an orca with a salmon on its head.” (B, 22:40)
• This banter sets up their comfort with strangeness—echoing the encouragement to trust what seems weird if it feels true.

3. The Role of Alarms, Psyche, & Self-Dialogue

• Rowan shares her iPhone alarms as a metaphor for how our minds “alarm” us constantly—mirroring how culture and psyche interact.
  • “‘Last chance, last chance, Last chance for lotion etc.’ God almighty. It's a strange thing to have a psyche and evidence of it.” (B, 12:41)
• The conversation leads to the insight that our psyches can become so full of competing cultural voices that we become “alarming” rather than intuitively guided.
  • “It's very much like how our psyches are though. We just sit around alarming each other.” (B, 13:04)
• Segues into the necessity of distinguishing intuition from the clamor of inner and outer voices.

4. The Value—and Science—of Intuition

• Martha discusses how society frames “reality” as only what is measurable, dismissing intuitive or energetic experiences.
  • “The culture will say to you, if you can't see it, if you can't measure it... then it does not exist.” (B, 22:55)
• She recounts her own struggle between trusting direct experience versus adhering to culture.
  • "[I] had to free my mind from the culture I'd been educated in and allow that these nonmaterial, spooky wookie things were actually real..." (A, 24:14)
• She uses the metaphor of a telescope: unless you use the proper tools (such as mind-stilling practices), you’ll never “see the rings of Saturn"—or the depth of intuition.
  • “That's like saying, we know there are no rings around Saturn because we can see Saturn and there are no rings. The telescope in this analogy is like a metaphysical practice...” (A, 28:25)

5. Keys to Accessing Intuition

• Stillness and Solitude: Practices from various traditions focus on stilling the mind and accessing the right hemisphere of the brain.
  • “If you can still your mind... your verbal, logical mind... you can connect to [intuitive] energies.” (A, 26:13)
• Calm vs. Anxiety: Intuition is calm and quiet, not anxious or dramatic.
  • “Nothing intuitively accurate comes out of anxiety. When I've had intuition about danger, it's been super calm.” (A, 54:13)
• Testing Intuition in Practice: Martha shares the story of “take the walking sticks”—an internal, calm directive that proved very helpful.
  • “Something said really, really calmly but very strongly, take those sticks... The voice stopped... it was just sort of an idea that formed in my mind.” (A, 34:13)
• Shared Intuition: Both hosts recount moments when their mutual intuitive responses (e.g., feeling “ahh” when crossing into Pennsylvania) steered major life decisions.
  • “It was almost like this huge, clean breath that we both inhaled and just felt like, oh, this is better.” (A, 39:07)

6. Why We Miss the Call from Destiny

Rowan identifies three key cultural obstacles:

1. Cultural Reason/Logic: We override intuition with what we’ve been taught is “logical” or “reasonable.” (41:23)
2. Anxiety & Paranoia: We confuse intuition with anxiety, mistaking nervous “stories” for guidance (aka the "Blair Witch Phenomenon"). (52:41)
3. Consensus-Seeking: We discount our intuitive hits as “just me,” seeking external validation over internal knowing. (57:27)

• Martha notes that authentic intuitive guidance feels like “the right puzzle pieces clicking together”—clear, grounded, and self-reliant.

7. How To Tune In

• Hang Up on Culture: You must carve out moments of solitude and silence to access intuition—it rarely breaks through “group calls” with culture.
  • “You actually have to hang up occasionally. Hang up on culture.” (A, 60:43)
• Listen/Relax/Trust: Real intuition brings a touch of joy or lift, is specific and pragmatic, and is felt in the body. Don’t try to force consensus—sink into your own senses.
  • “The real voice of intuition... always feels like you’re being lifted. It’s a pleasant feeling.” (A, 63:09)
  • “Instead of listen... the key is to relax. It's that simple.” (A, 64:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Culture’s Distraction:
  “We're always already on a call with culture... So plugged into that that we never even hear the call coming in.”
  — Martha Beck (20:14)

• On Intuitive Experience:
  “Something said really, really calmly but very strongly, take those sticks... it would not stop. So I put them in my backpack. The voice stopped.”
  — Martha Beck (34:13)

• On Intuition vs. Anxiety:
  “Nothing intuitively accurate comes out of anxiety. When I've had intuition about danger, it's been super calm.”
  — Martha Beck (54:13)

• On Empirical Resistance:
  “So what you're saying is the culture of science has actually kind of is consistently interfering with the spirit of science.”
  — Rowan Mangan (42:34)

• On Inner Authority:
  “There is no force outside me, there is no group of people outside me that can give me the instructions to find my destiny. I have to trust what I feel and hear as the call in my own being.”
  — Martha Beck (58:31)

• On the Practice:
  “You actually have to hang up occasionally. Hang up on culture.”
  — Martha Beck (60:43)

• Signature Banter:
  “You were like an orca with a salmon on its head.”
  — Rowan Mangan (22:40)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05 — Culture vs. Intuition: opening metaphor
• 02:31 – 05:53 — Orcas & salmon as symbols of nonconformity
• 08:47 – 12:41 — Alarms, psyche, and the inner voices
• 15:34 — “Missed Calls” & Destiny: central metaphor explored
• 19:30 – 21:41 — How culture's “call” drowns out intuition
• 22:55 – 28:25 — Science, skepticism, & opening to intuitive experience (the "telescope" metaphor)
• 34:13 – 35:53 — The walking stick anecdote: calm intuitive directive
• 39:07 — Shared intuition: house-hunting and the “clean breath” moment
• 41:23 – 44:54 — Three cultural obstacles to intuition: logic, anxiety, consensus
• 54:13 – 56:33 — Calm as the marker of true intuition vs. anxiety
• 60:43 — Practical advice: "hang up" on culture, solitude, and trust

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Takeaways & Practical Steps

• Intuition is innate, calm, and often obscured by the noisy, anxious, and logic-driven voices of culture.
• Regularly seek solitude and quiet to allow intuitive insights to surface.
• Trust sensations that feel pragmatic, calm, joyful, and “lifted.”
• Distinguish between anxious, consensus-seeking inner commentary and the steady pulse of your own knowing.
• The journey to intuition may feel quirky (“wear a salmon on your head”), and that’s a sign you’re on the right track.

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Final Message

Your destiny is always calling you, but you have to occasionally "hang up" on culture, relax, and listen for the quiet, joyful message that's meant for you—no matter how strange it might look to others:

• “All you have to do… is literally unplug and relax and then trust what comes.” (A, 66:05)

Stay wild.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, Kahoot. Did you know your intuition is always speaking to you?

[B]

It's true. It actually is. But you know what? You don't take the call from intuition, because you are on the other line with culture.

[A]

And in this episode, we're going to talk about connecting with our intuition and learning to trust the messages it has for us.

[B]

Yeah. And there's also a surprising amount of discussion about wearing fishes headwear.

[A]

Come listen.

[B]

See you on the other side.

[A]

So, as some of you listeners may know, a few months ago, Ro and I started something called the Wilder Community, which is kind of an online village where people like us who want to find our true nature, even if it peels us away from culture, can get together, commune, make friends and do things.

[B]

Have all kinds of regular events in there that are just so fun. We have a weekly hang where we get together and we have conversation. We make art in our own little rooms, in our own little places. But all together, there are group meditations that Martha leads that are crazy powerful, and there are just all kinds of monthly themes and personal development stuff that we work through together, and just a hive of activity and connection among really wonderful people.

[A]

Yeah. So if you're feeling drawn to belong to a community in these troubled times, give Wilder a try. It'[e-mail] all one word, and we hope we'll see you there. Hi, I'm Martha Beck.

[B]

And I'm Rowan Mangan. And this is another episode of Bewildered, the podcast for people trying to figure it out. Trying so hard and yet never really getting there, never succeeding.

[A]

But that's okay. Stick with us, because, as come you said, the struggle itself alone is enough to fill our hearts. We must imagine Sisyphus happy.

[B]

I was hoping you'd get to Camus. At the very, very, very, very beginning of this podcast episode, I always like.

[A]

To kick off an hour of droll comedy with an existentialist quote.

[B]

Droll comedy? You flatter us.

[A]

Well, you know, we have our aspirations. We haven't figured it out, but we have our moments, we have our dreams. Is that so wrong?

[B]

What are you trying to figure out?

[A]

Oh, I was just gonna ask you. So I have a. I'm really trying hard to figure out why orcas in the Northern Pacific for a while picked up a habit of wearing salmon on their heads, Fed salmon, and then they stopped, and now they're doing it again. And I cannot for the life of me figure out why or how.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I have to say, it's the how that stops me in my tracks.

[A]

Maybe they help each other. Because, like, if all you had were two little flips. Flipper flips. I mean, they're not little. They're pretty huge, but. And then you had this big old bulbous head. How are you gonna stick a salmon to that noggin? It doesn't make sense.

[B]

Is there a way that they could, like, swim to keep the salmon in place?

[A]

They must, because according. And I've seen pictures, according to scientists, it's a thing that happens. And how in the water do you keep a salmon on your big bulbous head?

[B]

Yeah, you've seen. Is this real? Hang on. Is this real?

[A]

No, it's a real thing. It's a real thing.

[B]

I like that they're doing it.

[A]

Like, I. I love that they're doing it. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the salmon. I'm sorry. For the salmon.

[A]

Well, they, they. They go and they. They reproduce and then they die anyway. So it's kind of like in that area. That's where they go to die. And, you know, then they get worn as a hat.

[B]

That's where they go to die. The water.

[A]

Sorry, people. I am so sorry.

[B]

She's hooping.

[A]

I've had the whooping cough the same. The self. Same week that I had eye surgery on both eyes. And let me tell you something, that is a frightening situation because you're so afraid that one of your whooping coughs is going to pop your eyeballs on account of they're already compromised from the surgery.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's been a week.

[A]

Makes me want to wear a salmon on my head.

[B]

It makes me want to wear a salmon on my head.

[A]

Well, that's what it is. An outbreak of whooping cough. Think what that would be if, like, you were out with the orcas and you were kayaking there and it came up and then had a whooping cough attack through its blowhole.

[B]

I just like the idea of an orca swimming up to me with a salmon on its head.

[A]

That would be so tender and terrifying because they are really big. So, yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. And I don't expect to be successful, but, you know, the struggle, et cetera. Coming. Knew that. So what are you trying to figure out?

[B]

Maybe for the orcas, it's like a soul patch. Do you know what a soul patch is?

[A]

A little. Little.

[B]

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's like a little beardy. It's like a little tiny beard that is just right. Sits right under your lip. Maybe that's the equivalent on your soul. Yeah. Maybe that's what the salmon is. Or, like a little bow tie or something. Oh, I wish I knew what statement they were making.

[A]

I know, because they're thinking thoughts.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Elaborate thoughts about us, no doubt. Oh, judgmental thoughts.

[A]

We deserve their judgments. We do deserve their judgments.

[B]

God knows we do. Oh, Marty.

[A]

What are you trying to figure out, Rowy?

[B]

I had a weird experience the other day of unexpectedly finding myself scrolling through my iPhone list of alarms. Have you ever done that?

[A]

No. I find it alarming.

[B]

Oh. Oh, you're better than that.

[A]

Marty, come on. No, I'm not. I'm really not.

[B]

Are you not?

[A]

No. I popped my eyeballs.

[B]

Now we know. Yeah. And you know how you can label your alarms? And in fact, you should.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

In my view.

[A]

Mine usually just say things like Saturday because it's on Saturday. Yeah.

[B]

You have trouble telling Siri you panic when you talk to Siri?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Siri, on the. On the morrow, please forbear upon me to just. To just remind me that we must imagine Sisyphus happy. And then Siri goes. And then Siri goes. All right, I will tell you to check your Sisyphus.

[A]

Which, when you say it sounds dirty.

[B]

It does, actually.

[A]

It does. I meant for, like, lice.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

I said the other day. What was it? I said that people were trying to capture me and sell me. And you said for one.

[B]

For meat, and you said no, for traffic. And I immediately saw you in, like, a high vision vest, like, doing this directing track. Oh, dear.

[A]

Oh, seriously now.

[B]

What's to become? I love how you always say seriously and then lead into something that's, like, by the nature of this show, not designed to be serious. Anyway, I'm talking about alarms and I'm talking about the deep insight that I had into my own psyche by watching how I'd labeled alarms over the years. Because I never reuse an alarm. I always just add a new one.

[A]

So.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

You never reuse them?

[B]

No, because I tell Siri to set them all. And so. And so it's just. I just feel like I was doing this. I was looking at the old. All the old alarm labels and thinking this is like how my night person speaks to my morning person. Like, this is how that conversation happens. And so. So there's the obvious ones, like sweet potato in onion. I mean, onion. Sweet potato in oven. Sweet potato and onion in oven.

[A]

Sweet potato in onion is less. Less clear to me how that would happen.

[B]

It would be kind of a fun challenge.

[A]

Yeah. Like a turducken.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

On Yamun or something. An.

[B]

On Yamun. Gravy, stovetop. All those ones that everyone has. But then there's also these really like. Like one of them says. And it says it in this tone of voice. Get up, dermatologist in all caps. I always love it when I set my alarms in all caps because it shows that I'm. I'm trying to be really stern with my morning. And I don't trust her. Like I do not trust her. But there are so. It's so funny, Marty. Like a lot of them use the. The term last chance. I have alarms that say last chance show.

[A]

Oh my God. It's like you're having a closeout sale on your life.

[B]

It's really real because I'm like, in my mind, it's like, okay, well, she's going to be able to get out of the door, but not with a shower. So she's gonna. I'm gonna have to like set this up. I saw one that just said, marty, shave my head.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I've got the hoops. You've got the hoops in Australia. They're hoops.

[A]

And I don't know, because you're more constructive, you are more making hoops. Things that can function, you know, Good mending. The hoop of the hoop of the cough.

[B]

You still spell it with the W anyway.

[A]

Really? You still spell it with a W?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, that's just nonsense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't make sense. I never claimed it did. I have one that. In all caps. And I have no idea what this is about, but it must have been something medical. But for whatever mood or whatever, I have an alarm that's set for like, like 2:30 in the afternoon. And it's all caps. My favorite ones are all caps. And it says, weigh thyself. Did I need to weigh thyself at 2:00pm on a Saturday?

[A]

At 2:00pm on a Saturday? I think that is what the oracle at Delphi said. Weigh thyself.

[B]

Yeah, I had. I had one that says, remember the Teddy stuff?

[A]

Remember the Teddy stuff?

[B]

I had one that said Teddy Lila and construction vehicle prize.

[A]

Are you gonna feed our child your construction vehicle?

[B]

It's anyone's guess, but I'll leave the listener with my favorite. My favorite alarm that I found in my list.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That says in all caps with a lot of exclamation points after it set.

[A]

4. Yeah.

[B]

7:15Am okay. All caps, exclamation points. Lotion, Etc. Lotion, etc. What was the urgency and what was the etc. What is etc? Dilution.

[A]

I can't. My whooping cough is too hard. Lotion, Etc.

[B]

Lotion, etc. For the love of God, stop at.

[A]

15 in the morning.

[B]

Not just the lotion, not just the lotion, but things that are like lotion but I can't go into it what.

[A]

They are specifically just similar items at 7:15.

[B]

Last chance, last chance, Last chance for lotion etc. God almighty. It's a strange thing to have a psyche and evidence of it.

[A]

I think that we just should get to the point where our phones do everything and our psyches are out the window. They'll just sit around alarming each other. Lotion, etc.

[B]

It's very much like how our psyches are though. We just sit around alarming each other.

[A]

That's a really good point and actually an excellent segue into our topic.

[B]

I was hoping to segue into.

[A]

Did you do that on purpose, Rowie?

[B]

Oh no, I totally didn't.

[A]

Oh cool. Well, it is, but I'll take credit because we have a metaphor we intend to torture.

[B]

Yes, we do. As always.

[A]

As always.

[B]

I mean, would it really be Bewildered if we didn't torture a metaphor?

[A]

Torture a damn metaphor. I'm against torture. I want to be clear about that. But when it comes to metaphors, fuck em.

[B]

If you are enjoying Bewildered, there are a few ways you can express your support for us. You can subscribe to the POD or follow it depending on your app. It's a great way to get us in front of more people. And as always, we love a little rate and review action. Especially when the reviews are kind of. And the ratings are high, strangely. And finally, if you really want to go to the next level with Bewildered, check out our online community, wildercommunity.com we'll see you there.

[A]

Hello the lovely peoples. This is Marty Martha inviting you to a free masterclass that I have made called five Paths to youo Purpose. Probably the most common question I get from people is how do I find my purpose? Why don't I feel that I'm on purpose? Well, it turns out there are certain things you have to do to find your purpose. And I broke them down into five and I made a little masterclass about it. So if you'd like to see it, just go to marthabeck.compurpose and you will be able to watch it without any charge at all.

[B]

We are thinking today about. Yeah, and we were talking about mobile phones. So this is all perfect. It's perfect. It's like we planned it. It's like we did any professional preparation. It's so amazing much.

[A]

Almost like that.

[B]

So similar to that. It's like, et cetera, preparation, etcetera.

[A]

You had an alarm that said professionalism, etceter. At 8:15pm on Wednesday. Okay, so explicate.

[B]

Missed calls. Missed calls. Call waiting. We haven't quite decided what's the perfect metaphor, but it's something to do with your telephone. Missed calls from Destiny. And what we want to talk about is our intuition. Our intuition.

[A]

Yes, because as I always say, our. Our cell phones are electrical devices that communicate wirelessly and our nervous systems are electrical systems made of meat. Why should they not also communicate wirelessly? And I think they do. I think intuition and calls from Destiny are a thing. So there.

[B]

So, speaking of meat, do you remember in Battlestar Galactica when she has to learn to pilot the Cylon ship, but the Cylon ship is made of meat? Yeah, it's alive.

[A]

Okay, number one, I have no idea what you're talking about because I never watched Battlestar Galactica. Number two, who the hell is she? Is it like. I don't know.

[B]

I've forgotten her name. I think she's called Starbucks. She's really, really hot. Starbucks is good. She looks like. I don't know, she looks like. If Kate McKinnon wasn't joking. If Kate McKinnon was serious. Oh, she's so gorgeous, Marty.

[A]

Oh, so it's not like Shirley Temple or somebody just out there. And. And then the third thing I was going to say is, what the f. A meat ship. That is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. Except for the. We are literal meat ships. So.

[B]

Yeah, to your point, I was agreeing with you. I was excited.

[A]

So she has to get on there and it's made a meat and what does it do? Does it, like, try to bite her?

[B]

No, she. She. I just. I just. I think she. I don't know if she ends up, like, doing it psychically, but I can remember her, like, reaching out into the. And sort of starting to figure it out. Maybe Starbuck is the guy.

[A]

No, Starbuck is the guy in. On the Pequod in Moby Dick.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Didn't you know that's where it comes from?

[B]

Forgotten. I'd forgotten.

[A]

That's why it's got the. The emblem of the mermaid and everything that was on the front of the Pequod in Moby Dick. Yeah, and. And Starbucks. Starbuck was one of the. I think it was the ship's mate or the cook or something.

[B]

We've got to educate our child. Yeah, yeah, but that's a great Callback. It's a great callback to the orcas with the salmon on their head.

[A]

That line of reasoning. I'm glad I know you well, because as I recall, we went from Battlestar Galactica, hands deep in the meat ship, to, unfortunately, Moby Dick and Starbucks to we must educate our child. Which part of that. Like, is it the meat squish? Is it Moby Dick? Is it. Does she go into a whale and try to run it like a. Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what, Marty? The answer to that question is that I am so complex. I have such a complex mind that I don't even know myself.

[A]

That is so deeply cunning of you.

[B]

So your intuition or your destiny is. All right. So, okay, here's the metaphor. Let me spell it out. You have a destiny. Yeah. It. It speaks to you. Yeah. Via your intuition. That's the message. That's fine. Metaphorically, I want to say. And then. And, and. But the thing is about our culture is that we're not listening. We're not picking up that call. We're missing the call. Yes. Guys. We cannot, folks.

[A]

And here's why.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

Here's the metaphor.

[B]

Okay, Lay it on me.

[A]

Still in pretty good shape at this point. So we're wireless devices. We're getting signals that are telling us what might be best for us, you know, in a moment. Like, don't go down that dark alley kind of intuition. And in a broader sense, like, you have a destiny, like maybe learn to drive a plane because it's part of your destiny or something. Right. They're big intuitions and little intuitions. And they're wirelessly communicated, like calls. But we are always already on a call with culture. Yes, we're plugged in. It's like we're on a zoom meeting with culture. Everybody like mom, dad, the siblings, the cousins, the teachers, whole Brady Bunch. Yeah. Everybody that ever conditioned us, their little voices are always, like, coming at us. Oh, don't do that. Do this. And we're so plugged into that that we never even hear the call coming in. Or we just kick it to call waiting or something.

[B]

No, that's a bit of a 90s reference, I think, Colton. So, no, I think the thing is, it's a missed call. It's a missed call.

[A]

Yes, it's a missed call from destiny. So, all right, fine. Metaphor stipulated. How does this work in real life in a non metaphorical sense? Because there is a way that I believe your destiny, or your true self, or whatever it is, actually is trying to get your attention and actually does offer you suggestions, instructions, sometimes some really useful planning advice for the future. So it's. There's. There is something coming in.

[B]

Yeah, I think anyone who's listening to this, I don't think anyone's going, no, there's no such thing as intuition. I think we all know, like, we've all felt that feeling. Right?

[A]

We were. If I have to say, we went through a whole pre. Discussion here going, okay, we won't say that we believe in intuition because that would be so bourgeois. But we will say that we have had our own experiences with intuition and it's a scientific possibility. And Ro said, no, anybody out there listening to us already believes in intuition.

[B]

It's not something you believe in or not. It's something you know in your body. It's something that. If you say to me right now that that's bullshit, you are trying harder. You like your expense us. You are like burning more calories denying it than it would take to accept it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it doesn't. That's.

[A]

And the way I think of that, but I just.

[B]

No, no, sorry, I. I need to. I can't let this go any further without saying yes. Neither of us said the word bourgeois as. No, that didn't.

[A]

I thought it.

[B]

You thought it was bourgeois to talk about.

[A]

No, I didn't. I just made that up.

[B]

You are a funny, funny woman, Martha Beck. You were like an orca with a salmon on its head. Thank you.

[A]

That's instant.

[B]

Does this make me look bourgeois?

[A]

You're making me cough and my eyeballs will pop.

[B]

So what's interesting about this is that the culture will say to you, if you can't see it, if you can't measure it, Bewildered listeners know this, then it does not exist. Right. That's what the culture tells us. So they're like, yeah, burn that energy saying that. What? When you have had a very strong feeling not to do something and listen to it and then later found out, well, thank God, you know, or whatever it is like that. That's clearly the culture. But I want you to tell a story about a telescope.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's a good thing. So there came a time in my life when I was having so many experiences that were not. They didn't conform with the idea that reality is strictly material. They were, you know, little psychic flashes and sometimes pretty damn big psychic flashes. Flashes, Flashes, I have to say. So I had. I had a decision to make. I either had to cut out a large and very startling part of my Experience and stick with the culture I'd been educated in. Or I had to free my mind from the culture I'd been educated in and allow that these non material, spooky wookie things were actually real and deserved my attention. I depend on that call.

[B]

Yeah, it's a particularly hard thing to do because the culture has built into it that sort of sneering, condescending attitude towards it. So it does actually take courage to make that movement. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I was talking to someone the other day who had gone to a convention of some kind and could feel. Just felt something very negative about someone else at the. At the convention and just wanted to steer around them and then met someone else who said, there's something really strange about that dude. I just want to stare around it. And the person I was talking to said, isn't that just absolutely wild? Like, neither one of us had talked to him. And we just both had this feeling that is just incredible. And I was thinking, man, we are like. I think all animals are aware of energy. All babies are aware that we transmit and receive energies. And here's this brilliant dude, famous and well known and everything, and he's absolutely blown away at the ABC level of. I'm picking up an intuitive hit. You know, we dumb ourselves down in this one area to the point where, like, cats must just look at us and think, what morons.

[B]

Well, Marty, I don't think that's fair. I think we dumb ourselves down in all kinds of areas.

[A]

Also, to be fair. Cats think that about us in every area.

[B]

So that's quite right. So what about the telescope?

[A]

The telescope, okay, so I'm having these experiences and I'm like, how do you. What? So then I thought, well, you know, religions and traditional societies have things they say about this. They train.

[B]

They call them very bourgeois.

[A]

They're very bourgeois in some cultures. No, they're. They're considered real and. And in some way manipulable. That you can make yourself more accessible to them, that you can connect to them, that you can disconnect into energies. Very much like we use our cell phones. And in order to do this with energetic phenomena, they have practices. And I've looked at practices from all over the world because I was fascinated. I mean, this stuff was happening to me. I wanted to explain it. I believe in science, but I don't think our brand of science in our culture has gone. I don't think it knows most of the reality we experience every day. So. So I looked at all these rituals and everything, and usually the Primary practice is learning to still the mind. And there are different ways of doing that, but if you can still your mind, your verbal, logical mind. And I think this has everything to do with sort of bringing the whole brain online. The right part of the brain being the part that picks up the signals. I think the right hemisphere. I just completely lost my train. Oh, yes. So I tried these things. He wore it on me.

[B]

My eyeballs popped. Telescope.

[A]

Telescope. I did these practices, you know, I would do these things to still my mind, and it would, in fact, allow me. I had more psychic things happen and I had more energetic accuracy. And I was able to test it, and it worked. And then I would say to someone, you know, I think maybe those things could exist and are real. And they'd be like, how bourgeois of you. And I would say, well, have you ever, like, tried stilling your mind? They'd be like, why would I still my mind? My mind is the best thing I've got going and I will never steal it.

[B]

And I'd say, well, it's got a salmon on it. Have you seen it? It's very bourgeois.

[A]

Magnificent salmon. So, no, I'm not gonna do those practices. They're ridiculous. We know those things don't exist. And I thought that is like saying, we know that there are no rings around Saturn because we can see Saturn and there are no rings. And if you do, and the telescope in this analogy is like a metaphysical practice that allows you to focus in. So you say to someone, well, come look through the telescope. And you will see that about it, in fact, has these magnificent rings. And they would say, why would I look through a telescope? I'm looking with my eyes. I see reality. Your telescope is bourgeois. Is actually bourgeois bullshit. And no, I'm not going to look through it. And they would continue to believe in the reality that they were seeing without the instruments, that could make their perceptions more acute. And I think that's what we do in our culture.

[B]

We refuse to look through the telescope.

[A]

Yeah. And tiny little flickers of intuition come in. And maybe we allow them in, like at a time of great grief, when we've lost something or someone or when we're in intense physical pain of some kind. And it's like, I think I felt a flicker of something. Dude. If you use the practices that have been discovered and employed by normal people all over the world throughout history, you can pick up a lot of stuff.

[B]

But even without it, I mean, I think a lot of, like, for practices or whatever, a lot of it is just like. Like Ceasing the resistance a bit like. It's like what I was saying before about it takes more effort to disbelieve sometimes than to just go with it. Yeah. Like, what about you with the walking stick thing?

[A]

Yes, that was really interesting. We were talking about had we ever had experiences specifically of intuition coming in. And not in a way that is like, you will marry this person and move to France or whatever. It's become.

[B]

The bourgeoisie.

[A]

Yes. You will be entered bourgeoisie. Just something that, that represents the usual sort of sound of intuition. Because here's the thing. When our culture does believe in intuition, it tends to equate it with anxiety.

[B]

Say more about that.

[A]

So usually people think of intuition as warning them against dangerous.

[B]

Your example about the person at the convention that everyone was avoiding.

[A]

Right, Exactly. But that is not the way I experience intuition. We'll talk more about this in a minute. But the way I experience is like this. I was getting ready one autumn to go on a long walk in England with a bunch of new friends. And we walked, we did these walks where you go from village to village every day. You walk all day for like a week. And it was like 85 miles in total. I did 75 because I had to do a day off. Someone I loved was sick. But point is, I walked 75 miles in six days. And as I was getting ready to go. Why are you smiling like that?

[B]

Because I have a new drinking game.

[A]

The. My 75 miles. Six days.

[B]

Specifically. I've even said this to our beloved kit. That 75 miles is one of my new drink terms, along with Harvard down syndrome, you, near death experience. 75 miles.

[A]

I walked 75 miles to Harvard with my child with down syndrome. There just drink until you just are lying face down somewhere with a salmon on your head again. But I, that was, you know, for me. It's like, I, I.

[B]

It's very impressive, my darling. I can't believe it. It's astonishing. I'm so proud of you.

[A]

After you do it, you can, you can be snide. No, it really wasn't nearly as big a deal as I thought it was. But you, my very beloved Rowie, are very into the iki pahi. The equipment. Actually, that means luggage. The equipment that goes along with any activity.

[B]

I love me some equipment.

[A]

You love props.

[B]

Agree.

[A]

So you got me a very, very fine and fancy set of walking sticks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The thing about them is they make it harder to walk.

[B]

That sounds like me. Boy, they're cute.

[A]

And you were like, are you going walking with your sticks? Now is it easier? And I was like, well, I'm burning twice as many calories in my shoulder. Boulder's ache all the time is really quite something to walk that far with.

[B]

The sticks going how far specifically?

[A]

About a hundred thousand miles, give or take. I round up, what can I say? So I used them a couple of times walking around Pennsylvania, where we live and they were a lot of extra effort. So I wasn't going to take them because you also want to cut weight when you're doing a long walk. You're carrying everything on a, in a day pack on your back. And so you need light things. And I didn't want to put the sticks in my backpack and I was packing and throwing, putting things in, taking things out really like it was a weird packing situation. I wasn't, I don't usually do that. So I was editing like crazy and you were helping me because you've done long walks and you'd come in and like pick up a tube of like lotion etc lotion etc and say this is heavy. And I'd be like, it's 100 milliliters and go, that's going to be too much. So I was, I wasn't going to take the sticks and I got finished packing and something said really, really calmly but very strongly, take those sticks. And I was like, no, wrong. You know, they don't help, blah, blah, blah, take those sticks. Very calm, very strong and it would not stop. So I put them in my backpack. The voice stopped. It wasn't a real voice. It was just sort of an idea that formed in my mind. And then like two days into our walk, which turned out to be much hillier than I had expected, I found out that walking sticks are amazingly helpful when you're not on a paved surface and you're going up and down hills. It really, really, really helped. And that's the only reason that I walked 87.3 miles in two and a half days without that.

[B]

Let's just get this straight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We don't need to obsess over how far you walked. We know it's very impressive. But I just want to go, I just want to go back for a moment to the bit where your intuition said to you, Martha, your wife is always right about everything. Do as she has suggested in this and all things.

[A]

I let you.

[B]

The force is stronger.

[A]

That often comes to me when I use the tiny earbuds you gave me as a gift. Pre programmed wireless. So that was my point, was that when you get a bolt of intuition it's like that. It's very calm, very pragmatic, usually. And not. It doesn't feel metaphysical, even though it is. And we both had it at the same time one time, remember?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. It doesn't. It doesn't feel metaphysical because it's. It's the. It's the cultural lens that says, like, it should be like Gandalf brandishing his staff and lightning coming out of it or something. It's just. It's just part of our bodies. It's just part of our makeup that. Yeah. That we, you know, can. Can sense this stuff if we. If we, you know, if we aren't busy talking to culture or listening to the elevator hold music that culture's doing at all times. Sorry, metaphor. Torture. We moved across the country some seven, six years ago. Six years ago.

[A]

Maybe you should make them drink every time we tell them that too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, we talk about it a lot, just kind of. Because it's the last thing we actually did. Yeah.

[B]

We moved across the country and then we sat in a chair for seven years, basically.

[A]

Did. But yeah, yeah, we were. We were cruising around.

[B]

We were looking for. We were looking at houses in New Jersey. I don't know why that sounds so funny to my ear, but it does sound really funny to my ear. Our friend Liz said, there's this cool part of the country. It's really nice. You'll love it. Come and live here. And we went, all right, because that's how we do. And.

[A]

But also it must be said. Something told us, move, go to a different place.

[B]

Yeah, that something was. Karen, that's true too. Sometimes intuition speaks in the most unlikely voice. No, it was a very clear message that we all received. And so we were looking at these houses and then there was something. You know how it comes up and. And there was something just over the river because this is part of New Jersey. It's near the Delaware. So it was like over in. In Pennsylvania. And we just both had this strange but yet unremarkable experience of driving across on a. On the bridge across the Delaware river from New Jersey to Pennsylvania. And both of us had this like, ah, sort of thing, like it was just like this. Relax. Relaxation or this sense of. Oh, that's it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is probably the best way to put it. Just like the. Oh, that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now we're, you know, now the flavor of this soup is.

[A]

Right. It felt clear and obvious and open and just better.

[B]

It just better.

[A]

No, I'm nothing against Pennsylvania or New Jersey.

[B]

Nothing against New Jersey.

[A]

Nothing against New Jersey. No one said any.

[B]

I'm at the finest turnpike this nation has ever seen. And that's just for starters, beautiful turnpike.

[A]

But it just our intuition, our collective intuition signaled to us by. It was almost like this huge, clean breath that we both inhaled and just felt like, oh, this is better. We literally are a stone's throw away from a place that felt distinctly worse for no reason. There was no.

[B]

No.

[A]

There's no geological or. Or geological.

[B]

It was just like static. Like, we work with someone who talks about the feeling of static a lot. It was just like. There was. It was a bit more staticky. And this is in the context of like, it's your destiny talking to you through your intuition. Because everyone's is unique. And this. The whole thing was just. We were just being steered where we were supposed to go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's not where other people were supposed to go. Yeah.

[A]

Everybody else is supposed to go away from where we are.

[B]

I feel like there's three reasons that we miss that call when it comes like that. We have a tendency in our culture to kind of ignore it. Let it go to voicemail. Sorry.

[A]

Oh, I can't help it.

[B]

I just get. I get way laid in the beauty of the metaphor.

[A]

Let me give the metaphor a little. How do we give it anesthesia so we can just keep doing this?

[B]

Just give it a little tickle.

[A]

Give it a little tickle and some laughing gas. Okay, tell us these three reasons we miss the call of intuition.

[B]

So I was trying to figure this out, and I was like, let's mix the metaphor and imagine. All right, so let's imagine that you're walking through the woods, and your best life or your ideal sort of circumstances are like, trying to steer you and a path through the woods. And I was like, what's three things that would stop us listening to that, following those. Those imperatives to turn left here, turn right here, whatever. Walking through the woods. And the first one I thought of in terms of the culture. This is what the cultural stories we're listening to. The first one is like, quote unquote reason. Like, well, you wouldn't want to go.

[A]

Down there because clearly, you know, I.

[B]

Once read in my Boy Scout manual that blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, that sort of thing that overrides so empiricism and all of that, which will find a way to belittle what you're feeling and override it. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Trying to go with that. What. What is called logic and evidence by the culture. But Is, in fact, very tightly selected. So it's called evidence. Our scientific culture talks about certain things being solid evidence and certain things being solidly reasoned, but actually cuts out a lot of what we all experience empirically ourselves in our own lives, which, you know, the goal of science is supposedly to be parsimonious, to take all the evidence and give the most. Give the explanation that comes up most easily. And what you were saying before is people will talk themselves blue in the face to explain around an intuitive event without acknowledging it. Then maybe it's just that we can pick stuff up sometimes.

[B]

So what you're saying. This is blowing my mind. So what you're saying is the culture of science has actually kind of is consistently interfering with the spirit of science like the actual science is supposed to do. Because you're absolutely right, it is empirical. These nudges that we get.

[A]

Yeah. Everything we experience is through our own lens of subjectivity. So when we get a very strong signal to do something that doesn't come through what our culture considers empirical means we need to just. It violates our true nature to ignore that or to say it doesn't exist, but we have to do it if we're going to fit in with culture.

[B]

Right. Talk about. Sorry, I don't mean to just remote control you, but I do do this sometimes. Lisa Miller talking about her research and the way that the academic kind of.

[A]

Lisa Miller is a brilliant. Yeah, she's a brilliant psychologist. She's Ivy League all the way. Was at Stanford for a while, I believe. I think she's now at Columbia. And just absolutely impeccable research. Brilliant, brilliant mind. And she and her assistants went through this huge data set on all these different variables about people's happiness and health. And it's just kind of a big general national survey, I think, in the us Huge number. And they combed through this long questionnaire and they found exactly one question that could have some connection to the spiritual perspective of life that has been considered real by most cultures throughout history. And it was something about religious participation. So Lisa Miller and her assistants ran all these statistics on this one variable, and what they found out is that it had a massive positive effect on health, on happiness, on relationships, on job satisfaction. Pretty much any variable you looked at other than that was positively affected by this one question. If people said, yeah, I have a.

[B]

Spiritual community or something, some sort of sense of spiritual life, some sort of.

[A]

Religious life is what I was religious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's what they ask about on the survey. You don't want to Ask about spiritual phenomena, you just say, do you go to church? Because that's something you can measure. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it just. But the. The numbers were absolutely stunning. The effect of this one variable was unreal. So she has done a lot of subsequent research and where she's shown definitively time after time that people who allow for a spiritual dimension in their own experience are just much, much, much healthier and happier, mentally and physically than most other people. So she presented this work at an Ivy League seminar expecting, you know, a standing ovation, because the work, the statistics were.

[B]

So you don't know that she was expecting a standing ovation?

[A]

Oh, I don't know. But she describes it in her book of just being so, so excited. And I think her book's called the Awakened Brain. I should check on that, because it's a terrific book. But she talks about being so excited to present these findings and putting them up there. And just like the silence was deafening. And afterward, people came up to her and said, yeah, you're really going to have to work to find the hidden variable in the data that will account for your findings things.

[B]

Because it wasn't it. I remembered this as. That they would say, well, of course you haven't considered that. And she go. And she would say, no, we controlled for that. This is how. No, you haven't considered that, because it could have been this. And then she would say, no, we did control for that. Like, we have, actually.

[A]

Yeah, I think people did poke at her that way. That's one of the ways people get challenged when they have sort of unusual findings. So there was a lot of that, but then there was also just a general consensus that, well. Well, she had pretty well controlled for all the data, all the variables they could think of. So there was a hidden one that was going to explain how some kind of spiritual life made it seem that people were happier, but actually it was being filtered through something empirical and physical. So the logic got really ornate, trying to work around people's experience into the precise box our culture wants to believe in.

[B]

Right. And there's. And so that's. That's anti. What do you call it? Occam's Razor. Like, yes, you know, like that. Just believe it. It's like my favorite thing in. I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast before, but my favorite moment in the C.S. lewis books is when the. In the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, when the older brother goes to the old man that they're staying with. It's the blitz and so they've been sent out to this country house and, and says, my, My little sister says that she's going into a wardrobe and going to another land. And. And the professor's like, yeah, all right, so why don't they teach logic to these people? Okay, so there are three options. She's lying. Do you know her to be lying? Do you know her to be a liar? No, she's absolutely not a liar. Well, then she's mad. She's delusional. Do you just, do you have any evidence that she's delusional? No. Okay, so what's the third thing? She's telling the truth like that. So I mean all of that to say. So that's, that's one reason that we missed the call from Destiny.

[A]

I have one other. I have to slide in another. This is, this really drives me crazy because I had this white light experience that people. Similar to what people experience during near death experiences. And they will all say, and I will repeat, that it's more real than the realest thing you've ever experienced. But the way scientists explain this is that they say, because this phenomenon occurs everywhere on earth and people who've gone through the same set of circumstances describe it exactly the same way. That means we know for sure. Sure. It's a product of the brain. And I'm like, okay, people all over the world also report seeing a moon that waxes and wanes up in the sky. People all over the world claim to see it and see it getting bigger and smaller and blabbity blah, which proves that the moon is a product of the brain. No. Maybe it's just there.

[B]

Marty, what are we defending? Like what? You know, this, this idea that it's, it's, it's, it's. It would be less work to just say this is real. What, so what is it that we're defending? When. When I say we as the culture, as the scientific voice of reason, like what's being defended there? Because it's clearly a defensive posture.

[A]

Well, if you read a whole bunch about the brain, what you will find is that the left hemisphere tends to be in control of the. What we call logic and reason and most of language and counting and the passage of time and all of that, and that it also tends to tell fear based stories and try to control everything around it. So the same part of the brain that measures things and wants them to be very physical is the same part of the brain that wants to control everything and that is a. Afraid of everything. So I think what We've got is a fear based culture that is like hanging out mainly in left hemisphere dominated functions. And in that part of the brain, it's like a part of us that is terrified of losing control. And if you said to someone in a science class at, I don't know, an Ivy League university like Harvard, if you said, okay, I completely believe in physics as we know it and I also, when I close my eyes at night I can see what's happening to my relatives far away. And it's verifiable and I've tested it 25,000 times. The whole control mechanism, the whole structure would have to break open if that were possible. And I think it partly was a push back against religion when it first arose.

[B]

How ironic that it's so religious now.

[A]

Yeah, people, exactly. It became dogmatic. But people were tired of being burned alive for knowing that the earth goes around the sun and not vice versa. So they said none of your religious nonsense, we're just going to look at what we can measure. And then they became their own dogmatism. And now we've got dogmatism that says there is spirituality but we get to control it. The authorities of the church, whatever the church is. And then we've got, there's science, there is no spirituality and we get to control everything. Fear and control. Fear and control. Fear and control.

[B]

Silly.

[A]

Boring.

[B]

Boring. So boring. We're walking through the woods. The first noise that's going on that stops us hearing the call of, you know, our own, our intuition on in which way we should be walking. That's reason. Yeah. That really dominant voice of culture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would like to posit that the second reason is we don't pick up that call. Yeah, I like to call it. In my many years of research into this I have decided to call it the Blair Witch Phenomenon.

[A]

Do tell.

[B]

So you're walking through the woods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just suddenly think, oh what if I saw one of those creepy stick things hanging from a tree there like in the Blair Witch Project. Now I'm anxious. Now I'm thinking about the Blair Witch Project. Now I'm thinking about creepy things in the woods that, that might grab me with a jump scare. And then you can build stories that basically lead us on a path to paranoia which will stop, which will cut anxiety and paranoia will cut that, that connective tissue between what we know to do and what we're doing.

[A]

Yes. So this is what I was saying a little while ago about insofar as our culture does allow that we have Some kind of intuition. It very often confuses it with anxiety and even to the point of paranoia. So people don't think of intuition as a friendly, practical voice that tells you things that sound fun, but in my experience, it is what people think. And we were reading this something online about how to, like, be okay in the apocalypse or something, and it said, you know, at times when there's a lot of social disruption, your intuition will grow sharper and you must trust it. And I thought most people I know think that that means having to stay anxious about whatever's going on in the world, because anxiety itself is the source of solid information about what to do next. Yeah, I used to think that way, and I only recently stopped thinking that way. And because I realized that nothing, actually nothing intuitively accurate comes out of anxiety. When I've had intuition about danger, it's been super calm. Have you ever had intuition about something avoiding danger and it didn't scare you? It's not like the stick figure in the woods. It's just like, hey, yeah.

[B]

And it seems connected to that thing, like in when you have a car accident or whatever, and everything slows down. It's like. It's like a faculty that we have that. It's almost like that's actually reason. It's what that the cultural voice that says, this is. This. This is the actual physical version of that, which is just like, okay, now you're gonna lift this arm and you're gonna turn this, and instead of breaking, you're going to accelerate through the. And. Yeah, yeah. So.

[A]

And it's so interesting how you start moving your body to describe it, because I do believe it comes through the whole brain, not just the left hemisphere, and not just logic and reason. And it's. It's almost the wisdom of the body. Like, when I grab.

[B]

Why is the body separate from any other kind of wisdom? That's a cultural distinction to begin with.

[A]

When I had the thing with take those sticks, I really think it was my body sending that message. I didn't know how helpful those sticks were gonna be. In my head, I had read about it. I theoretically said, you know, it's easier on your knees or whatever. But my body had been out with the sticks a little bit, and it knew something that I, My brain, my verbal brain was not allowing. And it knew it very calmly. And I've also had things about the future, you know, things I should do in the future. And they're calm. They're never panicky. And so by tuning into anxiety, thinking that it's intuition. We totally miss all the calls from our destiny.

[B]

And the thing that those two types of storytelling have in common, the supposedly rational one and the fear and the anxiety based one, is that they're both very sure that they, they're the right answer. Like they're both very beguiling and very convincing and, and very. Like they diminish any other alternative.

[A]

Yeah. And they kick up a kind of fight or flight response. Like they're a little bit combative, a little bit like definitive. Or they, they scare you and make you want to run. So if you. I get didactic immediately if I feel anything that is fight or flight in a message. I don't think it's real intuition. I think it's just something I've learned to be afraid of.

[B]

That's so interesting. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good rule of thumb. And then, but so then I think there's a. This is my third. Okay, third type type of story that goes on in our brains that stops us picking up the call. And you described it so well when we were chatting about this. It's the phenomenon where people will say something and then they'll say, well, maybe this is just me. And so we were, we. You know, I'm kind of thinking about it in terms of consent, like the, the, the forcing of consensus that comes in culture. You know, we talk about unbewildered, we like to talk about culture is coming to consensus while nature is coming to our senses. And so this sense of if it's just me, that, that in itself disqualifies it from being, from being the right information is. And, and that's absurd because it is just you. It should be just you. You're the one receiving the message for you if it's not the message for the other person.

[A]

And that's so interesting because it requires a kind of courage and not the courage of being afraid and moving forward anyway, but the courage of saying there is no force outside me, there is no group of people outside me that can give me the instructions to find my destiny. I have to trust what I feel and hear as the call in my own being. And I have to trust that despite all the pressures telling me not to. That's a pretty brave position. But it also, I think, feels very. It feels like when you say that, I feel like there's something settling, like the right puzzle pieces clicking together. And it's like, oh, shit, nothing is going to do this for me. But wow, I have the capacity to do this myself. Yeah.

[B]

So I Want to talk a little bit more about how we go about doing that in just a minute? Okay, Mari, real talk. How can we hang up on culture once and for all so that we can finally be ready to listen to the intuitive hits that are coming through all the time?

[A]

Well, I love the way this metaphor frames it up, because people do really think, just moseying along, taking group calls from culture all the time, that somehow their intuition is going to break through all the conversations they're already having in their heads with culture. So it's like we're on a Zoom call with 50 people, and no one's on mute. We're trying to listen to every single person that socializes us, and.

[B]

And someone else's dog is barking over here, and someone's kid is screaming for.

[A]

Something, and we're thinking, I wish I could just figure out what to do and trust myself and find my path forward. You actually have to hang up occasionally. Hang up on culture.

[B]

So is it fair to say then, that, like, a good clue that what you're hearing is not intuition is if there is that kind of feeling of clamor.

[A]

Yes, yes. That if you can hear many voices, it's quite probable that none of them are your true nature.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If it feels like. And so people who are dithering or trying to process logically can hear all these different arguments when there are multiple arguments. That's not your destiny calling.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And that's interesting because it's that trying to come to consensus, like what you're then going through is a process where you're trying to make all the voices agree rather than sinking into your body and coming to your senses, where there is, at least at the beginning, there is some sort of silence. Yeah.

[A]

So we're back to the. To Pascal's statement that all our suffering comes from the fact that we are unable to sit quietly alone in a room, because that is the best way to get intuitive hits, is to take time every day. When I was packing to go on that trip and the sticks thing happened, it was so difficult for me to think logistically through this thing that I'd never done before that I had to make everybody leave and I had to pack by myself. You advised me many times, but then I had to get by myself. And it was in the moment when I was by myself and I had sort of finished, and I was just looking at it, and I stopped worrying and then take those sticks, and it was not like, I'm not gonna, like, change my life and go live in a bunker in Colorado based on these things. It was a very, very pragmatic thing, but it came from silence.

[B]

It's interesting that, like sitting alone in a room, we don't talk specifically about solitude that much on bewildered. And yet it is the only context or the only, like, circumstance in which legitimately we could say there's no culture. Although there's always. There's always a little bit in there, if you know what I mean. But, but, yeah. And so as a. As a very practical kind of way to hang up on culture and start learning to use our intuition, solitude and silence is a great start. Right?

[A]

Yeah. And then listen. But don't listen for something that is frightening. Oh, go and do this. Don't listen for something that is. That sounds arduous or dark. Like, I really believe the real voice of intuition is always. It always has a kind of touch of joy to it. And it's always. It always feels like you're being lifted. It's a pleasant feeling. And we think things have to be huge or magical or whatever. And in fact they're usually just fun.

[B]

I want to suggest something. I agree with the fun and the pleasure aspect, but I think that listen is maybe not quite the right verb because I think if we're listening, we're in a. There's something, there's some sort of vigilance there that I. Because I think we, we. What we actually have to do when the. This, this knowing actually manages to penetrate is we need to hear. Right. So instead of being in this readiness that it's like you don't know when it's going to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when it does. So instead of waiting for it to happen, when it does, when you do hear it, just when you hear it, hear it, let it land. Let it actually acknowledge it.

[A]

Yeah. And I do think that it reminds me of a quote from the book Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates by Tom Robbins. There's a parrot in that book, and the only thing it ever says is people of the world, relax. And I, instead of listen. I really think the key is to relax. It's that simple.

[B]

Yeah. And then, and then trust yourself. Trust yourself. And I think over time, as you, as you develop evidence, sense that it's real. Yeah. Through your own experience, which is actually the scientific method.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I've got to say, you're building, you know, you're building the metaphorical muscle to be more and more in touch with that faculty, which isn't actually woo, woo. In particular, it's just a faculty that the church of, of our current culture doesn't, doesn't allow.

[A]

Says it's wicked. It's wicked sensical.

[B]

I want to burn it on a steak.

[A]

And then put it on my head and swim about.

[B]

It's a weird episode.

[A]

It was a very weird episode.

[B]

If anyone's still listening, thanks for bearing with us.

[A]

Oh my God. All right. No, but so there it is. Like your destiny is always calling and literally really unplugging and relaxing and then trusting what comes is all you have to do. And I think we should cut the previous hour of this podcast and just say that.

[B]

All right. But first, let's not forget to say stay wild. We hope you're enjoying Bewildered. If you're in the USA and want to be notified when a new episode comes out, text the word wild to five seconds. 8730144 we're also on Instagram. Our handle is Bewildered podcast. You can follow us to get updates, hear funny snippets and outtakes, and chat with other fans of the show. Bewildered is produced by Scott Forster with support from the Brilliant team at mbi. And remember, if you're having fun, please rate and review and stay w.

[A]

People are always asking me, how did you get into training life coaches? And the answer is backwards. I did it backwards. That is, I didn't set up a program and then look for people to fill it. It's just that so many people were coming to me for coaching that I realized in order to serve the market, I was going to have to train other people in my methods. That was decades ago. And now the Wayfinder program contains all my very best wisdom and tools for living, boiled down to their savory essence. Now, if that sounds interesting to you, head on over to MarthaBeck.com and find your way.