Podcast
Beyond B2B Marketing
Hosted by Lee Odden · EN
The Beyond B2B marketing podcast is on a mission to elevate the B2B marketing industry by shining a light on talent, insights and inspiration. Host Lee Odden, CEO at TopRank Marketing, features discussions with today's top B2B marketers to uncover what makes them tick, what drives ROI and how they're breaking free of boring B2B. Whether you're looking for the impact of AI on content, search, social and influencer marketing or practical examples of the best in B2B, this is the place to be.
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Episodes
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Customer Context: Heidi Bullock on the Missing Layer in AI-Powered B2B Marketing
2w ago00:46:44Tap to summarizeAI is changing B2B marketing fast, but as customer expectations rise and B2B marketing tactics become commoditized by AI tools, the real competitive advantage is customer context. In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing podcast, Lee Odden talks with Heidi Bullock, Chief Marketing Officer at Tealium and former marketing leader at Marketo and Engagio, about why real-time customer data has become foundational for modern B2B marketing, personalization, AI-driven experiences, and revenue growth for B2B brans. Heidi shares insights from nearly 25 years in B2B marketing leadership, exploring how customer context powers more relevant buyer experiences, stronger personalization, better sales and marketing alignment, and more effective AI-powered marketing. The conversation also looks at how fragmented discovery across AI search, Reddit, YouTube, communities, review platforms, and dark funnel channels is changing how marketers think about visibility, trust, and buyer engagement. Here are 5 important takeaways from this conversation about customer context: Customer context is becoming the real competitive advantage in AI-powered marketing As AI models and tools become increasingly commoditized, the quality, freshness, and contextual relevance of customer data is what differentiates buyer experiences and marketing performance. There is no such thing as a "perfect" buyer journey anymore Modern B2B buying journeys are dynamic and nonlinear, requiring marketers to respond to real-time behavioral signals instead of relying on static funnels and rigid nurture tracks. Real-time data is fundamentally changing personalization The shift from rules-based personalization to AI-powered orchestration enables marketers to deliver more relevant content, messaging, and experiences based on current buyer behavior and intent. Trust depends on consented, connected customer data Strong customer experiences require accurate, unified, and permission-based data that reduces friction, improves relevance, and builds confidence throughout the buying journey. AI increases the importance of human judgment, not decreases it AI can accelerate execution and improve efficiency, but marketers still need human expertise for strategy, creativity, governance, differentiation, and maintaining brand integrity. Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with B2B marketing industry leaders about how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands by building visibility, trust, and decision confidence with buyers and those that influence them. Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
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The Consensus Engine: Debbie Kestin Schildkraut on AI, Community, and Influence in B2B Buying
4w ago01:07:35Tap to summarizeAs B2B buying becomes more fragmented, networked, and influenced by AI, how can marketing leaders build trust, align buying groups, and drive decisions with confidence? In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Debbie Kestin Schildkraut, VP, Global B2B Program Lead and CMO Global Growth Council at the Association of National Advertisers. With a career spanning global leadership roles at IBM and industry-wide initiatives at ANA, Debbie brings a unique perspective on how B2B marketing is evolving at the intersection of AI, community, and influence. Together, they explore why today's buyer journey is no longer linear, how AI is reshaping both discovery and decision-making, and why the most effective marketing strategies are built around trust, validation, and shared experiences-not just reach and visibility. Key Takeaways from this Episode: The Fragmented Discovery Challenge: B2B buyers are navigating a non-linear, networked journey across AI platforms, communities, and peer recommendations-making traditional funnel-based strategies less effective. The Rise of Buyer Consensus: With buying groups expanding to 15-20+ stakeholders, marketers must shift from targeting individuals to enabling group confidence, validation, and decision defense. AI's Real Impact on Marketing: AI is transforming content lifecycle management and insight generation, but success depends on governance, human oversight, and reinvestment in creative and analytical capabilities. Community as a Growth Engine: Communities and peer networks are becoming critical drivers of influence, providing real-time validation that often outweighs brand messaging. Experiential Marketing as Differentiation: Memorable, interactive experiences-both physical and digital-are increasingly essential for engaging buyers and standing out in crowded markets. Influence as a Credibility System: From customer advocacy to employee creators and partner ecosystems, trusted voices are becoming central to how B2B brands build relevance and trust. About Our Guest: Debbie Kestin Schildkraut is VP, Global B2B Program Lead and CMO Global Growth Council at the Association of National Advertisers. A recognized change agent, she has spent more than two decades leading global B2B marketing initiatives at IBM and building industry-wide programs at ANA. Her expertise spans ecosystem marketing, community building, and emerging technologies, with a focus on helping CMOs drive growth through collaboration, innovation, and strategic alignment. Connect with Debbie Kestin Schildkraut: LinkedIn Connect with TopRank Marketing: Lee Odden on LinkedIn TopRank Marketing Start your journey to becoming a Best Answer Brand: Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast TopRank B2B Marketing Blog
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AI, Trust, and the Future of B2B Marketing with Kelsey Voss
Apr 1900:50:54Tap to summarizeAs B2B buying cycles become increasingly complex and AI-driven, how can marketing leaders maintain credibility and stand out in a sea of "AI slop"? In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Kelsey Voss, Principal Analyst at eMarketer, to discuss the evolving landscape of B2B marketing as we make our way through 2026. Kelsey brings a unique 360-degree perspective from her early days in New York theater and B2B publishing to leading marketing for startups and large enterprises. Together, they explore why visibility alone is no longer enough and why the most successful B2B CMOs are prioritizing their focus on data governance, influencer partnerships, and human-centric creativity. Key Takeaways from this Episode: The Compressed Window of Influence: Learn how AI tools like ChatGPT are not necessarily accelerating the buying cycle, but are compressing the window brands have to influence a buyer's shortlist. Beating "AI Fatigue": Discover why buyers aren't rejecting AI itself, but rather "low-value output." [cite_start]Kelsey explains how a distinct point of view and credible authorship are the keys to maintaining trust. The Maturity of B2B Influence: Influencer marketing has moved from a "nice-to-have" awareness tactic to a core pillar of performance marketing, with 81% of B2B marketers now holding dedicated influencer budgets. Data Governance as a Deal-Breaker: Data quality is no longer just a back-end reporting issue; in an AI world, bad data leads to "visibly wrong" customer experiences that instantly erode trust. The Human Checkpoint: Why human judgment, creativity, and "failing with style" remain non-negotiable for brands that want to remain authentic in an automated world. About Our Guest: Kelsey Voss is a Principal Analyst at eMarketer, where she leads B2B marketing analysis and the "Leading with Confidence" CMO series. With a background spanning senior leadership roles at multiple B2B companies, Kelsey focuses on helping marketers navigate hype to find practical, executable strategies that drive revenue. Connect with Kelsey Voss: LinkedIn Connect with TopRank Marketing: Lee Odden on LinkedIn TopRank Marketing Start your journey to becoming a Best Answer Brand: Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast B2B Marketing Blog
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The Commercial Marketer: David Rowlands on the Shift to Strategic Leadership in B2B Marketing
Mar 2200:50:45Tap to summarizeIn this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden sits down with David Rowlands, Head of Content at B2B Marketing and Propolis, to talk about how the role of B2B marketing is evolving. From his unconventional path into B2B marketing to leading content and community for a global audience of B2B marketing practitioners, David shares his perspective on what's changed, and what hasn't, when it comes to creating impact in the world of B2B. Their conversation centers on the rise of the Commercial Marketer, which is a shift from campaign-driven execution to strategic, revenue-focused leadership. Lee and David dig in to how changing buyer behavior, increased pressure for accountability, and the growing influence of AI are changing expectations for B2B marketers. They also discuss why aligning with sales, product, and finance is no longer optional, and how marketers need to move beyond MQLs to drive real business outcomes. If you're a B2B marketer navigating increased expectations, evolving technology, and the need to prove value, this episode offers is a smart way to understand how B2B marketers can become more relevant in a time of significant change. Highlights & takeaways from this episode: The difference between promotional marketers and commercial marketers-and why it matters now How shifting buyer behavior is putting marketing at the center of revenue growth Why aligning with sales, product, and finance is critical for modern B2B teams The growing impact of AI and LLMs on content, discovery, and marketing strategy Why data-driven, differentiated content is replacing generic "blog-first" approaches The increasing role of community, influencers, and peer validation in B2B decision-making Practical steps marketers can take to become more strategic and commercially impactful Connect with David Rowlands: LinkedIn Connect with TopRank Marketing: Lee Odden on LinkedIn TopRank Marketing
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GTM Singularity: Dave Frankland on Reinventing Go-To-Market for an AI World
Mar 800:57:51Summary readyB2B go-to-market models are under pressure from every direction: AI-powered buyer autonomy, expanding buying networks. collapsing funnels, and fragmented tech stacks. As a result, B2B marketing is approaching a "GTM Singularity." In this episode of the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast, host Lee Odden talks with Dave Frankland, VP and Research Director at Forrester, about some of the major changes transforming B2B marketing, sales, and customer strategy - and why legacy revenue models are about to break. As the opening keynote speaker and host of Forrester's B2B Summit North America, Dave explains why the singularity in GTM singularity is not about AI replacing humans, but about the pressures forcing GTM norms to collapse and new models to emerge. From AI-driven buyer autonomy to the rise of buying networks and answer engines, this conversation dives in to what senior marketing leaders must rethink now to stay visible, trusted, and relevant. You'll hear insights on: Why "buying has become an act of confirmation, not selection" How AI search and buyer autonomy are eroding traditional funnel visibility What "trusted discovery" means in an AI-mediated world The risks of siloed AI adoption across marketing, sales, and customer success Why strategy-to-execution alignment is the real GTM transformation challenge Forrester's predictions for influencer investment, decentralized content creation, and marketing accountability How B2B leaders should approach AI governance and human-AI orchestration If you are a B2B marketer esponsible for marketing, revenue, brand, customer growth, or GTM strategy, this episode offers both the strategic framing and practical shifts you'll need to navigate what comes next in B2B. Episode Timeline: 00:00 - Introduction to GTM Singularity and the forces driving change 08:50 - Systemic shifts in B2B buyer behavior 19:20 - The GTM crisis: broken funnels, misaligned incentives, and siloed data 22:00 - Defining the GTM Singularity 25:12 - "Buying is an act of confirmation, not selection" 29:56 - The visibility vacuum and trusted discovery 33:00 - Human + AI alignment and orchestration 39:29 - Strategy and execution fusion in GTM transformation 42:24 - 2026 predictions: content decentralization, influencer growth, brand shifts 50:50 - How to get the most out of the 2026 B2B Summit North America event Be sure to subscribe to the Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast so you don't miss upcoming conversations with B2B marketing leaders going beyond the status quo and influencing the future of B2B. Learn more about Best Answer Marketing and the B2B influence, search and content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
Summary
B2B Storytelling: Michael Brenner on Empathy-Driven Content
Feb 2200:58:03Tap to summarizeFacts tell but stories sell, so what does great B2B storytelling look like today? In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden sits down with Michael Brenner, VP of Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy at Workday, to talk about how empathy-driven content can help B2B brands tell stories that build trust, drive retention, and stand out. Michael shares insights from his journey from sales to marketing leadership and explains why "marketing has a marketing problem." He argues that marketing's true role is not promotion, it's helping. The conversation covers how thought leadership should focus on consistent value, why retention is the most overlooked growth lever in B2B, and how customer advocacy strengthens both acquisition and loyalty. They also talk about the AI productivity paradox and why AI adoption is ultimately a leadership challenge vs. one about technology. Michael outlines practical guidance for redefining roles, measuring outcomes, and ensuring that storytelling remains human in a world of AI and generative content. If you are a B2B marketer, CMO, content strategist, or business leader looking to create more meaningful engagement and measurable impact, this episode delivers actionable insights you can apply immediately. Here's a timeline of their conversation: 00:00 Introduction to Michael Brenner and His Journey 01:39 Transition from Sales to Marketing 03:21 Role at Workday: Thought Leadership and Customer Advocacy 07:49 Defining Thought Leadership in Marketing 12:44 The Importance of Retention in Marketing 16:47 Influencer Collaboration in B2B Marketing 20:16 Experiential Content in Thought Leadership 23:49 Navigating the Productivity Trap with AI 29:35 Workforce Trends and AI Adoption 31:09 Empathy-Driven Leadership and Workforce Trends 32:37 The Role of Trust in Marketing 34:31 Human Connection in AI-Driven Marketing 37:16 Evolution of Marketing Channels 40:11 The Importance of Storytelling in Marketing 41:38 Crafting Emotional B2B Stories 44:23 Balancing Informative and Emotional Content 51:55 Breaking Free from the Status Quo in Marketing Be sure to subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with industry leaders that are helping to guide the future of B2B marketing and how B2B companies can become Best Answer Brands. Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creatove content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
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B2B Trust System: Ashley Faus on Human Centered Thought Leadership
Feb 101:14:53Tap to summarizeWhat does human-centered marketing look like when AI is reshaping how buyers discover, evaluate and decide? In this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden talks with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing (Portfolio) at Atlassian and author of Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI. Ashley shares why traditional funnel thinking falls short in today's B2B environment and how marketers must rethink trust, content intent, and thought leadership. Together, they explore how human behavior-more than automation-should shape your strategy and how brands can authentically influence complex buying journeys. In this episode, you'll discover: 🔷 Why the traditional marketing funnel no longer mirrors real B2B buyer behavior 🔷 How to build trust at every stage by aligning content with genuine audience intent 🔷 What genuine thought leadership really means-and what it doesn't 🔷 Practical frameworks for elevating internal experts and external validation 🔷How AI amplifies opportunities and risks in human-centric marketing Whether you're leading content strategy, growth marketing, or customer experience, this episode reorients how influence, credibility, and trust fit into modern B2B demand generation. Your next steps: ▶️ Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for weekly insights you can put to work ⭐ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help other B2B leaders discover this show 🔗 Visit the show notes over at the B2B Marketing Blog to access the full transcript, resource links, and episode timestamps
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The Power of Proof in B2B: Todd Lebo on Original Research, Influence, and AI Discovery
Jan 1300:59:14Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Todd Lebo, CEO of Ascend2 Research, to talk about why original research has become one of the most powerful proof points in modern B2B marketing. Todd brings decades of experience across marketing publishing, data-driven research, and executive leadership. Drawing on Ascend2's work surveying nearly 800 senior B2B marketers, the conversation explores how research-driven content strengthens thought leadership, fuels influencer collaboration, and creates differentiated visibility in an AI-driven discovery environment. Together, Lee and Todd discuss why data-backed insight is increasingly essential for helping buyers navigate complexity, reduce risk, and build confidence across the full customer lifecycle. The discussion also addresses common gaps and missed opportunities. While nearly all marketers recognize the value of thought leadership, many still limit research-driven content to top-of-funnel awareness. Todd shares practical guidance on extending research into sales enablement, customer onboarding, and post-sale engagement, as well as how experiential and interactive formats significantly increase repeat engagement. The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on AI discovery, answer engine optimization, and why brands that invest early in credible, differentiated research gain a durable advantage. Highlights include: Why original research consistently outperforms other content formats for engagement How benchmarking data builds trust and supports buyer decision-making The role of influencers in adding context, credibility, and distribution to research Why experiential and interactive research content drives deeper engagement How original research improves visibility in AI-powered search and discovery Practical steps for getting started with research-driven thought leadership This episode offers practical, experience-backed insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and executives looking to use proof, not promotion, to earn trust, stand out in AI-driven discovery, and drive impact across the entire customer journey. As an emerging top B2B marketing podcast, Beyond B2B Marketing delivers conversations with the leaders shaping the future of B2B marketing with actionable ideas to help your B2B company break free of boring B2B and become a Best Answer Brand. Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
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The Evolution of B2B Content: Stephanie Losee on Thought Leadership, Trust, and Experience
Dec 2100:55:32Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Beyond B2B Marketing, host Lee Odden, CEO of TopRank Marketing, is joined by Stephanie Losee, Director and Executive Editor at Salesforce and a longtime pioneer of content marketing for B2B brands. Stephanie's career spans journalism, brand publishing, and executive content leadership - from Fortune Magazine to Dell, Autodesk, Politico, and now Salesforce. In this conversation, she talks about how B2B content has evolved, why thought leadership remains essential, and what B2B marketers must rethink as AI reshapes discovery and engagement. Highlights include: The changing role of thought leadership in a world of AI-powered search and content saturation Why trust and credibility are now central to full-funnel B2B performance How internal alignment with sales and customer success can unlock greater content impact The difference between content promotion and creating a true value exchange with customers What AI will-and won't-replace in high-quality editorial and content strategy This conversation offers a ton of practical insight for B2B marketers, content leaders, and CMOs that are looking to build more effective, human-centered content strategies while navigating the rapid changes fueled by AI. Guest: Stephanie Losee, Director & Executive Editor, Salesforce Host: Lee Odden, CEO, TopRank Marketing Podcast: Beyond B2B Marketing Subscribe to Beyond B2B Marketing for conversations with the people shaping the future of B2B marketing and practical ideas to help your brand stand out, earn trust, and drive impact beyond the funnel. Learn more about the B2B influence, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
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A Peek Into the Future of B2B Marketing: Rishi Dave on Buyability, AI and Human Creativity
Dec 800:50:44Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Beyond B2B, host Lee Odden reconnects with longtime colleague Rishi Dave, Partner at Bain & Company and former CMO at Dun & Bradstreet, Vonage, and MongoDB. in this conversation they cover how B2B organizations are evolving from disconnected campaigns to modern growth systems-where AI accelerates performance but human creativity, story, and trust remain the true differentiators. Rishi shares insights from Bain's work with leading global brands, including: How to move beyond "micro-productivity" AI pilots to enterprise-wide transformation. Why original research and thought leadership are essential to train AI and fuel differentiated content. The concept of "buyability" and how marketers can get their brand onto a buyer's Day-One List. What it takes to build category fame in a world where hidden buyers, peer validation, and emotional connection drive B2B decisions. How marketing leaders can design always-on, integrated systems that connect marketing, sales, and customer success for predictable growth. Rishi also reflects on the creative side of leadership and how his love of science fiction sharpens his storytelling instincts. The conversation wraps up with advice for B2B marketers navigating the next era of human and AI collaboration. More about Rishi Dave: LinkedIn More about TopRank Marketing: Lee Odden on LinkedIn Beyond B2B Marketing Podcast B2B Marketing Blog Learn more about the B2B influencer marketing, SEO/AEO and creative content marketing solutions from TopRank Marketing.
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