← Beyond Fashion Business
Beyond Fashion Business
RETROFÊTE Founder's Step-by-Step Guide To Starting A Fashion Brand
01:17:43
Join Our Free Fashion Business Course & Community Of Fashion Entrepreneurs Here: https://www.skool.com/fashionanticourse RETROFETE is a globally recognized fashion brand celebrated for its glamorous designs and worn by A-list celebrities around the world. In this conversation, Ohad shares how he built the brand from scratch, the secrets to his consistent success, his lessons from mistakes, and his approach to marketing and PR. I hope this conversation gives you the insights and inspiration that you need to successfully start and grow your fashion brand.
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
Welcome to the Beyond Fashion Business podcast. In this week's episode, I sat down with Retrofit founder Ohad Saroya. Retrofet is a globally recognized fashion brand celebrated for its glamorous designs and worn by a list celebrities around the world. In this conversation, Ohad shares how he built the brand from scratch, the secrets to its consistent success, his lessons from mistakes, and his approach to marketing and priority. I hope that this conversation gives you the insights and inspiration that you need to successfully start and grow your fashion brand. If you want a step by step roadmap on how to start and grow your brand with a low budget and with no fashion experience, you can join our free online course and community to learn more about our free fashion business course and community of fashion entrepreneurs. Make sure you click on the link in the description of this episode. Without further ado, let's dive into this week's episode.
- [00:54]
Jeff
Amazing. Well, once again Ohad, thank you for the time. Thank you for your willingness and making this happen and yeah, very, very excited for the conversation.
- [01:05]
Ohad Saroya
Me too. So excited to be over here. Nice to meet you.
- [01:08]
Jeff
Likewise. Likewise. Let's see. Jeff, foundational question. I mean I know people can very easily find more information about you and the story but just for the sake of, you know, having a brief introduction and people that don't know you and dono Retrofit, which I hope I'm pronouncing correctly just so they know who they're, you know, who they're going to be learning from. Give us a brief introduction.
- [01:29]
Ohad Saroya
So my name is oat seoya. I'm 39 years old. I moved from Israel 11 years ago to New York to make my dream many things that people don't know. So I give you a little tea about myself. I actually start as a dancer and hairdresser. I danced for many years and my mother was having hair salon and I used to help her. But fashion was always a big, big thing for me as my parents was very tight with, you know, being supportive, financial. I had to go to work in a very young age, fell in love in fashion by we had a fashion tv. I don't know if you remember that if you are in my age back then this was like where you can see all the Runway and I found out about this channel and really start to get really into it and luckily I found a job at age of 16 in the diesel store in Tel Aviv that it's like one hour drive for my own and at age of 16 I start to work in the store and Diesel was a You know, was a big fashion moment and love retail, learn a lot about fashion, explore also working with people, explore understanding the denim world and also start to create my own clothes because I was so addicted to Diesel that I used to like buy all the collection and then I saw everyone wearing what, you know, I was selling them. So then I start to make my own clothes, taking like two pairs of denim, combine them together, start to cut my stuff and start to stitch just, you know, just to be a little more cooler. Because in Diesel you have to be cool. Back then it was all about being cool and elevated your wardrobe and really get addicted into fashion. Like every day, what I'm wearing, every party, how I dress up and fell in love in fashion and pushed. The other stuff that I really liked was dancing and hairdressing. That, you know, till today it's really helping me and as I said, open a retail in Israel. I also lived in Milan for one year. Like I was like everywhere lifestyle. Yeah. In Milan I also tried to get a job in the fashion. I was 20, 20 years old and I did. I couldn't find a job in fashion because I didn't have the language and the experience. So I used to walk in a nurse salon because I know how to do it. So again going back to the air but really want to work in fashion. Stayed one year in Milan, go back to Tel Aviv at age of 21 and I have 22. Open my retail store with like non budget, just taking a look, very aggressive.
- [03:56]
Jeff
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:57]
Ohad Saroya
You know, a kid open with my friend. We opened a store in the, you know, main city of Israel and was really tough and also doing wholesale. Decided I'm opening a showroom and a retail like, you know, the kids and the big dream and had amazing experience, learned a lot. But Israel was not the place for me to explore and expand my fashion. This was the brunch, right? Sorry.
- [04:22]
Jeff
The store was the brunch.
- [04:24]
Ohad Saroya
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And it's such a cute name. Till today. There's a special, you know, minute for that. And I decide after seven years I told my husband that we are living. I'm not able to really make my dream come true. And I don't feel that I really stretch myself and pushing myself. And I had so many ideas and I couldn't sleep at night and I just found a job in an wholesale company in New York. I got promoted really fast after one year. Me and my husband from the house with one wreck start a showroom, product development and private label for many big companies. But again we really start from, you know, from nothing. We came with like. Like the American dream. It's about us starting to convince store to do for them private label and big brands. A lot of people gave us opportunity that we are very lucky and still in a good touch with them. And we. You never forget the people that gave you the hand. And I developed a lot of design for many other companies and also at the showroom presenting brands and expanding them in the USA market. Slowly growing really like slowly and organically. And then after doing this for two years, my husband just came with the idea let's open a brand. My immediately answer was a no. I didn't want to open a brand. And I'm saying it like people are really surprised when I'm saying especially being.
- [05:45]
Jeff
In the wholesale business.
- [05:47]
Ohad Saroya
Yeah, I'm still in the also business. I'm still doing the sales. I love sales. Like put me in a store. I go to the store every like one month and I just sell to the people. And then people have to tell, you know, the salesperson tell to the people is the owner, is the creative director. Like I love it, I love it. It's a part of me, you know, I mean I didn't want to. I didn't plan to be a designer, but I always plan to be a salesperson. I always love it. It's something I'm really attract. And this is how we open Retrofit just came like. You know, my husband was really pushing about it. You know, I didn't want it because I know what is the responsibility of a pen brand. And I saw many brands that are opening and then you know, two seasons they're like great. And then. And I said if I'm doing it, I'm doing it full power, full energy. Every season getting better, pushing myself understand what the meaning of being a designer. You know, it's not something even if you go to school. And today I teach in school how to be a creative designer, creative director. It's. It's something that you not even can imagine. It's, you know, it's not only creating a clothes. It's to be a businessman understand the visual and the vision of the brand where to go. And this is our retrofit. You know, came to a life many people asking what is retrofit? It's a really good question. I had always obsession for vintage. And I have a lot of stories you gesture the tip of them for my past. So this is how we came with the world. Retro, vintage, the past Fe. It's a party we Are a party boys. We love to party. And then we made a party brand for a clothes that celebrate your best moment and your best time that you party. And this how we came with the name.
- [07:26]
Jeff
Okay. Wow. That's. That was a great. Very good introduction, very well presented. I'm sure you've had some practice doing it, but Interesting. Okay. And you know, before we get into like the. The nitty gritties of starting retrofit and the process and how everything's looked like, I mean you've consistently succeeded as an entrepreneur. You know, you've been very obviously, I'm sure the day to day there's been a lot of failures and but you know, when you look at the overall process, there's been a lot of success. What do you think has been the most like important keys to that success for you? Has it been the people? Has it been a specific behavior? Has it been a specific skill set?
- [08:06]
Ohad Saroya
First of all, you know, thank you for the compliment. We don't go like, oh, we are a successful company. This is not our attitude and the vibe. Even if you come to the company, we are people that love what we do. We really wake up and you can see when we create a clothes and we really think about the consumer and think also on my employee, it's a two energy that's split between two. I have amazing team. You know, I cannot take the credit to myself. If it wasn't my husband to push me, if it wasn't Denise, Gillian, Christine, Eugene and many people that are a big part of my life to understand my vision and push to get the product, the visual, the image and everything. We will not be where we are today. So I think it's amazing group of people. It's need a village and have a best village to make this dream come true and understand the consumer and keep pushing and really evolving. It's like you said, every day it's a challenge. We had some really scary month and we have some amazing months. You know that we are learning as a business people again. You can go and learn business and you can be the most smartest person, but you don't know what the world would bring to you. We had pandemic in the past that we are a party brand. And as we said and I learned always make from lemon lemonade. I decided to make some lemon margaritas because I like margaritas also. So I met Saroya during the pandemic that everyone said, hey, your brain might maybe shut down. What are you doing? I said, hey, we're going to make it Work, but let's open something else because I had time to be in my focus. So it's always something. There's always. There's no. And we don't think like, oh, we are successful. You know, was great to get Beyonce and I'm very lucky for what we have. But we're still working. Like, we're walking, we're like sweating every day, waking up, firing our eyes. We just want to make it work. We want to open more store, we want to dress up more people. We want people to love the brand, to feel like we care about them and not just making, you know, it's a business, but also care about what we are doing.
- [10:07]
Jeff
Interesting. And what. What type of entrepreneur do you think you are? Are you a creative visionary and team manager? Are you a designer? Are you a salesperson? As you said, are you a manager? What, what type of skill set do you think would define you as an entrepreneur? Overall?
- [10:27]
Ohad Saroya
I don't know how to describe myself. I'm at Savoya. I'm trying to do best and learning and growing up every day. When, you know, when there's a challenge, I know today how to accept the challenge and not go down with myself and grow up. You know, I didn't finish school, I didn't go to school, I didn't know how to speak English. I didn't learn to, you know, I didn't do what people doing, but I actually went and work hard from very young age and I use this experience for my knowledge and I take the knowledge from the people that work for me and they take the knowledge I give to them. So I think I cannot describe myself. Oh, I'm creative director. Oh, I'm a businessman. I'm a person that love what I do. I give it all and I give the marks and this is who I am.
- [11:11]
Jeff
Interesting. And when you look at. Because again, it's. It's not very like, like, again, I understand the importance of being humble through the process, but it's very rare to see people succeed, you know, consistently, which means that there's something consistently that works in their character and their skill sets and their way to approach things. I think that you've been very clear with that. The passion, the focus, the vision, the energy behind what you're doing is a very, very important factor. But there has to be something strategic as well. Every founder is different, especially in fashion. Some people are very creative and they're creative. They're incredible. Creative visions are so good that they can drive a lot of like operational and managerial inefficiencies.
- [11:50]
Ohad Saroya
Forward.
- [11:50]
Jeff
Some people are some great, some incredible mark managers that they can understand how to manage creativity and channel it very productively. So in terms of you as an entrepreneur, as a founder, what type of skill set do you think is what has almost defined you and your successful career so far?
- [12:05]
Ohad Saroya
So I think you said something really right about this strategic. We actually having almost every day a strategic meeting and really think about it. And we are a business. Like I don't, I don't like to say I'm a businessman, but I'm a businessman. I look into it in a business and also in a creative. You know, I always tell to people I need to. I need to think what people want to wear next year. I really need to imagine where is the aesthetic is going. I also go to the store and I see what people are talking and they don't know. I'm just listening. I'm, you know, I'm absorbing all the information that I use it. I look on things very differently. I do listen to my team when we have a fashion week. I do fly to Paris and I work with a small boutique and I work with a department store and I serve coffee for them and I listen to them because this is for, for me the way I do business. Because I under. I understand that you need to listen from, you know, from the consumer to the big department store to the dot com and get their input and implement to your company with your vision and put it with a strategy and move forward. I am planning every time what will be the future. I do have idea. If you see the design of the collection, how does it go? I do also, like I told you, I learned I had a first Runway show. It was amazing experience, but it was such a headache for us. We didn't know where we are going to. Like I didn't sleep for two months and then I said for the next one we show, I want to take it in a different vibe. I want to enjoy, I want to relax. I want to think it differently. So I. I think it's important as a businessman now it's to really learn and how to come stronger every time. Such as a pandemic, such as a bad season, such as a retailer leaving you. There's many situation in the fashion world that, you know, we, as a fashion designer, we don't talk about it a lot. But in the bottom line, it's a business. You need to create a dress, but you need to make sure the dress is selling. So there's a big process of a.
- [13:58]
Jeff
Real interesting so in essence it's been your ability to have focused long term visions, but at the same time the flexibility and awareness to consistently develop flexible strategies that get you to those end goals. Consistently, yes.
- [14:16]
Ohad Saroya
Understand what happened with the fashion and the aesthetic. You know, the Tick tock and the Instagram change the game. We cannot be blind. And said okay, I do know I have to sell product to pay rent, salary. I have 100 employees. I have to think about that when I design the collection. How do I bring my creativity and how I bring sales, how I make the consumer coming back to us and how I make him feel that, you know, desirable, that I love the brand. I feel like special that you know all of that. So I think this is, I kind of like the game that we are working on and try to do every day, every collection.
- [14:50]
Jeff
Okay. And let's talk a little bit more about your experience in wholesale or as an agent because I think you can, you can a lot of aspects a lot more about starting brands as an agent because you analyze them very objectively and very distance from the creative aspect which I think blank blinds a lot of fashion entrepreneurs on the reality of this industry. So I guess foundationally what did you learn about successful fashion brands? Let's, let's get your, your perspective as a, as an, as a, as a showroom founder first and then as a fashion founder.
- [15:21]
Ohad Saroya
First of all, thank you for asking this question because I meet with a lot of fashion brand and I still have a showroom. I represent eight brands and the most important thing that we telling them it's consistency. It's really about creating your own DNA. It's being able to see, address and know with the designer, from the contemporary to the designer. It's the price point that it's very important. It's a shipping window again because the consistency I always had to design address, got it to ship on time, to be consistent, to make sure that the fit is right, to make sure that the customer is happy. I think this is much more biggest challenge than design the dress to be completely honest.
- [16:01]
Jeff
Right. And why do you think it's such a big challenge?
- [16:05]
Ohad Saroya
Because I'm experienced that and I see other designer failing over there. You know, as an agent and working with so many brand and this was what was my fear to open a brand. I saw the pickup of a brand and I saw how they went down. I was there. I'm not able to manage, understand the business, what is the margin, the shipping, the quality, you know, how to build up, how to invest in the company to make sure that the company have a longevity. People don't think, they just want to make money now. But what will happen next year when you are not ready with your logistic team, with your accounting team. And I was able, with all my experience, to put this information how to build retrofit and now how to build Saroya and helping other brands in the showroom and give them this information by experience, all of that with many other brands we have also brands in the showroom are very successful because we are pushing them and being very aggressive because, you know, after three, four years, and I see it, for many brands in the market, the collection is not. Wow. They don't ship samples on time. They have an issue. They become very chill. And I said, you cannot be in this zone. Like, you can, you can just. It's not working because one bad season can take you three years back. This is the game today in the fashion world.
- [17:25]
Jeff
Wow. And can we talk a little bit more about those important variables that determine the fat? Because I understand that's a very interesting approach. It means that you developed a lot of objective experience in terms of what makes a brand successful before you started your brand. But the secret, almost like the secret for you to retrofit success, was that you managed to understand what made a very successful brand, objectively speaking. And then if you consciously added a lot of creative energy and originality and authenticity, personal authenticity to it, it's a perfect formula for fashion success because you have the creative aspect at the highest level, but also at the same time, the management and operational know how to take it out to. To. To give a brand the foundations that it needs to get to that level.
- [18:10]
Ohad Saroya
Yes. We had also amazing story. You know, I really like when I'm like, if you know me personally more and we talk about, I can talk with you for days. Like my husband that, you know, is such a great supporter and you know, we are dating 17 years together. Think about it. I found a guy that in the finance and the IT age of 23, traveling, like, we're going to a small vacation and I'm taking him from a woman store to a woman. So the guy's like, what this guy? Why did I. What this guy want for me? Like, why I need to be in women. So. And I'm just like, really? He knows, like people that know me know the passion and the love, know what I'm doing. Like, all my friends from high school always said you. It's like it was so obvious you will do something in fashion and dressing up because you Always gave us comment about are we dressing up and all this merchandising. Always make our clothes and always been very, very, I was very, very confident. You know, age of 14, live in a very small town but come with a pink hair, white tank top, blue denim, like just like experience like you know what people are now doing in a very old age and feel like oh we pushing ourself. I'm like honey, I was like, you know feeling it at the age of like 12, 13, 14. I didn't even know I'm gay but I was like all over like. And I think this is what makes the brand also special. I'm really telling my story like there's some season that I'm. There's a truly story. You know the last fall winter was talking about my mother as a cleaning lady and this is what I remember like she was a cleaning lady, an hairdresser. She used to take me as a kid to clean this really rich people house. But in the moment she finished to clean, she took a shower, she blow her hair, she put this three piece outfit that it was on the fashion show, the first piece and what also Beyonce was wearing. And this is how I designed the collection. My mother living house after cleaning and look million dollar and I'm the kid sitting with her and I'm like wow, my mom is fabulous and I don't know even how to say this word. But now I can tell the stories and every collection I really try to tell a story and find how it's a royal stories and make it also commercial business, etc. Etc. Etc. But still have a truly story that you know it's me.
- [20:29]
Jeff
Yeah, yeah. A lot of creative energy and authenticity behind what you're pushing creatively plus the management and operational expertise. Wow. And before we talk a little bit about retrofit because obviously that's going to be a main focus of the conversation. Let's, let's, let's still talk a little bit more about that consistency that you see a lot of brands struggle with. What, what about out of all those different variables, the logistics, the pricing, the margins, what do you think is the one that most brands really particularly struggle with?
- [21:03]
Ohad Saroya
Consistency. It's really the consistency and understand between creative to business. When you decide to be a fashion designer and I tell this also in the fashion school, you decide to be a businessman. If you walk from another company, great. You will follow and do. But in their own moment you open your own brand. It's a business and people don't understand it's a Business and I think this is a challenge and be consistent. And having, you know, four season per year or three season per year, 12, 10 to 12 deliveries, it's, it's not easy. Listen to the market and not only, you know, merchandising something that again, somebody that, you know, we are, many people are very lacking. It's great to create beautiful dresses, but if there's no connection and a story, there's no, you know, something that make the brand unique you are, you won't make it, unfortunately. And today with the competition, today with Zara, that really changed again the game today with the low cost, you need to be smarter, wiser, creative. You need all of that to make it work for the long run.
- [22:08]
Jeff
Okay, and what questions or what things should people focus on to at least start working on that consistency on a more day to day and practical level? Is it about finding the right business partners to do? Is it about learning and showing curiosity? What do you think are the most important things people should start developing?
- [22:27]
Ohad Saroya
If you're asking me what the designer should do when you start, first of all, it should be like, you know, let's say a brand come to us and asking us, you know, to represent. In the beginning when we opened the company, we were like just, you know, looking for brands, you know, because you need. Today we are in a different position.
- [22:43]
Jeff
We don't say no to 10 to, to 100 out of. Yeah, 99 out of 100. Yeah.
- [22:49]
Ohad Saroya
Because we not able to give them also the service. You know, I believe that, you know, every brand I have in the showroom is like a family for me. And I have two brands also full time and I have seven, eight brands. So I'm trying to be like. So we're not adding more brands. But if a brand come to us and if we consider it, first of all, we need to see is it really well organized. And he have the finance behind them because, you know, again, to enter in this market, it's extremely expensive. He have the knowledge. We don't have time to teach him what is edi, what is, you know, what is a markup, what is. Also some people come to us and they don't know all these kind of small sentence that we use in the fashion world. Unfortunately, I don't have a fashion school, I have a fashion showroom. So I think they need to have a fashion partner that understand what is it. You know, every day I have people come to me, oh, I want to open a fashion brand. I'm like, okay, do you know what is a Price bucket. Do you know what is also an rrp? They're like, no, But I have this idea. I'm like, do you know what is a tech pick? No. I'm like, where do you want to start? Like, it's not like, like, me coming. I want to open a new computer company. I had this idea. A car. I want to open a new car company. You understand? People don't understand a fashion business. It's like any business in the world. You cannot just jump and be a fashion designer. I would love to. And we feel. I feel, like, always, like, pushing people, because every week I'm like, I want to be. I have this idea to open a. A underwear brand. I'm like, it's not that simple because you don't even know what's the meaning of, like, grading and fit. Go learn. And then do. I worked in retailing or sell. I learned. I did everything. So I have the knowledge to open. And I still feel like I need to learn more. And I have amazing people that I'm learning from them. And it's nonstop to be able to build a brand.
- [24:39]
Jeff
Hmm.
- [24:40]
Ohad Saroya
Okay.
- [24:40]
Jeff
And what other things? Because I really want to kind of like, discuss if potentially a brand approaches you, what type of thought process, what type of questions do you ask yourself when you think, okay, this is a brand that has high probabilities of success. So the financing, like, strong financially, an understanding of the fashion industry. They don't need to be like experts, but at least a good foundational understanding of the language of this industry or the business language of this industry and the business information. What else are you thinking about?
- [25:11]
Ohad Saroya
DNA. The brand have to have a DNA that, you know, like, this is the brand. You know, I have a beautiful brand from Ibiza, 32 years old. Chow that we work with. It's. You see the brand, you know, the. The brand. Like, if you see somebody on the street, you immediately will say, oh, my God, this is Chao is a visa. There's a clear DNA. And mostly importantly, with me, they have to be a great people with a great energy. Like, I'm. I'm not joking. Like, the people I walk with, like, I can call them from a party. I can call them when I'm in the beach topless. Everyone know me as a topless guy because I, like, you know, not at work, but when I'm at home and when I'm walking, when I'm in the beach, I love it. And it's very important to build, like, we become a family. Every brand that I sign up, it Become a part of my family and the relationship because we build in a business together. The showroom is a big part of the success of the brand.
- [26:04]
Jeff
Interesting. And going back to the financial aspect, when you say financial aspect, is it do me, do you mean more? Do they need to have a functioning brand at a financial level or is do you need to. Do they need to have like investors and a lot of capital behind them?
- [26:20]
Ohad Saroya
Investor and capital that it's not like something that today, you know, we like oh my God, you have a lot of money. It's not something we are looking, we are looking somebody in the middle that they have the finance behind him and have experience and have some account and have some experience. So. Meaning he's already selling to some accounts and yeah, he's already in the market. He already experienced you already, you know, had few cycle.
- [26:43]
Jeff
Right. And what can you know, the people starting out do to get to that, to even get to that level of achieving those things? Because you've been in both sides, right? You've been as a almost curator of brands that have this at a high level, but at the same time with retrofit as the person responsible developing all these things separately for the brand, right. The DNA, the financials, the knowledge, what, what does the day to day again, what if, if, if oh was starting all over and understood that these are the things that he was has to work towards. What would be those first steps to.
- [27:17]
Ohad Saroya
Build up a brand to, to achieve.
- [27:19]
Jeff
All the things that you've mentioned that are important to succeed in this industry.
- [27:22]
Ohad Saroya
And I will like I will tell you exactly what I tell everyone. Go and walk in a store at least for one year. Many of the brand didn't even walk in a store. Don't understand what's the meaning of retail. It's for me very surprisingly that you know, you want to be a designer, you want to sell, but you don't understand the flow. It's for me like you know, one of the best experience I have. It's be able to work for many years on the floor. So I tell every designer and a few designer walk on the floor before even opening brand, understand the DNA and the needs of the people. I think this is one of the most important thing for me. And yeah, build up something, take it slow. It's you know, like us, we really took it slow. We really like step by step build it up as we ourselves like you know, I told like I used to fly to many people with a small suitcase, convince them to buy one product, keep a good relationship you know, step by step.
- [28:19]
Jeff
Interesting. Okay. And now transitioning more into starting retrofit. What was the strategy? Because I'm guessing it was. It wasn't a random oh, I'm as you said it wasn't random as, oh, I'm starting a brand. There was a lot of strategic intent behind it. Of course it was a perfect opportunity for you to explore your creative vision and the things that you wanted to express as a creative. But there was a, a lot of planning behind that. So what were those early days like? Like this is like this is the category. This is the sales strategy. This is the market. Like, what were you, what were you thinking about when in those early days of the brand?
- [28:55]
Ohad Saroya
Well, in the beginning there was not a strategy. The strategy was to make money and have a living. Because if I can tell you, the strategy was like, you know, we de enter the strategy. Like the beginning was like, I think like the strategy was like making going out close. Like we had one factory that was nice to us and was able to make sample for us. We had one designer that explained what is like, you know, and even the beginning when we developed the brand and how funny was it that, you know, we showed to one of the biggest retailer and he said no to us and we got so upset. And then we showed to another one mistakenly and then they really like it and believe we didn't even know what we have in our hand. And the funny part that you know, one of the famous dress, the great dress, I don't know if you know which one. The famous sequence that I as a kid always like to wear a robe. There's something people know me wear a robe or like, you know, topless and a robe. So I took the famous dress and I made it a rope. And then we had and this was the most big, you know, explode dress that we ever had. The Gabrielle robe came like that from the robe. And another thing that we didn't at the strategy. But because I came from this end on the second season, I already told my husband I want to do denim. And everyone thought that I lost my mind. They said like, it's a going out brand, why you want to do denim? I'm like, because I'm a denim person and I know denim really well and I think there's opportunity over here. Not thinking strategy. I really thought there's opportunity and nobody do fun, cool denim. And then we came with the other jacket. I don't know if you know, what is it again, the jacket that we're still selling out till today. Because I wanted to do a cool denim jacket with just a puffy and it. This jacket actually saved the brand during the pandemic. Because in the pandemic we just sold the denim jacket. Nobody bought sequins dresses. I think in the pandemic this is where the strategy came. Because we understand that you cannot just shoot. We just, you know, the beginning we just shoot like everywhere, you know, doing dresses. Enjoy.
- [30:56]
Jeff
Right?
- [30:57]
Ohad Saroya
And then pandemic came to your life. And then I lost few years of my life. But then you understand that let's now. Let's be now a big boys and let's, you know, take it to the next level. And it was amazing experience. You know, I have almost tear in my eyes. How amazing. Me and my team of the team and my husband, we build a website that really change everything for the company. I think you know, doing retrofit.com bring the retrofit world and understand what the consumer really want without only be depends on the retailers change all the game for us.
- [31:34]
Jeff
Interesting. Okay, let's. Let's put a pin on that and kind of like that transitional period since I think it was so, so important before that. So 2018 to 2020. So when you started retrofit to when the brand really, really started improving during COVID at least what. What things in hindsight were you doing very wrong. And what things were you doing right during the pandemic before so 2018, 2020 on the. During the inception kind of like period of the brand.
- [32:04]
Ohad Saroya
You really asking all the tea. Nobody asking this question. But I will give it to you over sampling, for example, I think was a really, really big mistake. Not really analyze, not analyze the way, you know, today we know to analyze the collection, analyze the reporting partner with the right department. So I think this is like, you know, mistake that you are learning only with the time and when you get burned, how to, you know, react to them. Understand that every department so ever completely different consumer. How do you serve all this consumer? I think this is one of the most, you know where we failed and learn. I don't like to say the word failed, but we learn and we did a mistake and we still doing mistake. But we learn every day. I think the smart thing we did was, you know the denim category expanding category from the first season. It wasn't only sequence. And we are very happy that we did it. We had silk and then we had the denim and then we had the accessories and then we had now the shoes. I think this was a really smart thing. I think open a store I, like, I cannot tell you how, like, for my guy that came from a retail and didn't believe that retail have a life. I'm very happy. I have a store and in. So I'm like, every time I'm going emotional. But to see people waiting in the line outside of your soul, for me, it's like, you know, like, you know, I took my dad and my mom. They came. They was not. My dad was not in New York for 11 years, and I brought him over, and he came to the store and there was a line, and my father didn't believe there's a line behind. You know, I think this is, like, also emotional. Also see all the collections spread like that. You know, you're going.
- [33:52]
Jeff
Physical representation of a lifelong dream emotional.
- [33:57]
Ohad Saroya
I cannot tell you. I go to the store once in two, three weeks, and I'm like. I'm like, emotional. You see your product lay down. You see every item that, you know, there's a story, but you see all the connection. It's. It's very emotional. You know, we also put Saroya product over there. You see people wearing. You see a girl coming with a picture to the salesperson. She said, I want the Mary dress. They know what they're talking about. I'm like. I'm like, I call my husband every time. People love the brand, and it's very, very. It's amazing. It's amazing experience. I'm very lucky and thankful, you know, to be in this position.
- [34:34]
Jeff
Interesting. Wow. Okay, let's. Let's put a pin on kind of like those important factors now, because, again, a lot of things have happened from a business perspective during that process. A lot of things that. Good and bad things a lot of people, I think could learn from. So going back, you said that one of your biggest mistakes early on was again, mostly being very inefficient with the direction of how you were creating things. So making a lot of samples, working with the right and wrong people, not understanding the timelines. Why were those such big mistakes where people don't even understand, you know, foundationally why those things are. Can be. Can be potentially big mistakes.
- [35:08]
Ohad Saroya
Listen, I have to also. To clarify, it's a big mistake that also brought us where we are. We did, you know, so we also need to appreciate this mistake. But, you know, if I could go back on time, and I don't like to think about, oh, if I could go back, of course I will reduce many costs that I could and do less sampling, but maybe if I didn't do a lot of Sampling it wouldn't put me in this place. I am and didn't learn more about product development. But we produce a crazy amount of sampling. 500 to 6. 500 sampling for a season.
- [35:41]
Jeff
Wow.
- [35:42]
Ohad Saroya
Yeah it's crazy. And every sample hand embroidery every sample of a story in like till you know I had a new member team, you know my head of design and she said you have to and I agree with her.
- [35:56]
Jeff
She's like you have to relax.
- [35:58]
Ohad Saroya
She's like we cannot develop 500 like you see the reg before the season and you need to edit to 150 sample and you don't know where to start. So yeah was it like was a mistake.
- [36:12]
Jeff
Interesting. Okay. And and what about other things that you were doing so the sampling what other like big things do you remember? And again I understand that a lot of these mistakes are very important because they're build the foundations to where the brand is today. But just so could people have a little bit more aw awareness of the mistakes that happen on the day to day of of building a brand that I don't think a lot of people you know or enough people talk about.
- [36:34]
Ohad Saroya
And I told you the partner with the the department store today I really understand their needs. I really like you know think on the Neiman's client Sax client, the Net uprotech client and it's important to understand I don't change the DNA but I understand that every consumer is very different and we need to make sure that you know it's an healthy business for them and supporting their business. I can't say I am retrofit. This is who I am. Buy me or don't buy me. If I want to have a great business I have to develop the business with them. They're a partner like we talked about a brand and a showroom, a brand and a retailer walking together listen to them. I'm going to do like I'm going a lot to the store talking with the manager, talking with the DMM every appointment I'm in the appointment. I understand who is the customer. I do ask for feedback. You know today stole from Canada TNT beautiful store. I shipped to her like you know a new Saroya drop immediately. Like I texted I said can you let me know feedback negative and positive. I really need this you know to to grow from boutiques to department store and to get to their needs to grow the business.
- [37:48]
Jeff
Interesting. So understanding clients and customers mainly and early on what was like can you give us an overview of the the the brand on early days. So it was you Presented collection straight away. I'm guessing it was very wholesale driven because of your experience. Okay, and what about marketing? Was there any pr? Was it just focusing on good products?
- [38:13]
Ohad Saroya
The PR is a beautiful story. Are you ready? So we were really, really, really, you know, I really believe in energy and luck and God and everything. So when we opened the company Me showroom, I had a friend and she just texted me now her name is Denise and she had a PR office and I was, you know, she was not a good friend. We just knew each other and she was very nice. And I was, you know, giving her one of my clients from the showroom and asked for me if we can rent a space for me. And she said yes and she gave us a table. It was me, aviation and another designer. After four or five months, we had already five, six people and slowly we took control on our office and she become a partner of Retrofit. And she was handling the PR and she really believed in the brand. She was also, you know, from the beginning, you know, from walking, she was the one that bring the board and ask me question about the name. And she's the one that really pushed us also. And she was the behind the pr. And we didn't know we have amazing product before. She explained people want your product. And you know, when we launched Retrofit, we got Gwenit Plateau wearing in the Avenger premiere wearing us and it blow out JLo after two weeks and it just like. And then, you know, she's such a beautiful, amazing person and a beautiful product and a great energy. When you combine these two, I think, you know, the sky's the limit. And she's doing a great job and she have amazing team in LA and New York and she's taking care of all the PR marketing. It's also completely something else. I will start with the marketing. As I told you, I was an airdresser and I really like shooting. I don't know if you see the shoot we are doing and the creative we are doing on Instagram. I'm very, very involved. I have also amazing, amazing, amazing creative team that we work together. They get my crazy stuff that I'm like, put over in the taxi. Go inside. You know, I don't know if you saw the last video we did with Daphne in the taxi of New York. It's random. I'm like, let's be the story. Stop the taxi. I'm coming to the taxi. Can you take her to a ride? But the camera guy will be inside. He's like, what? Like just like quick, we put the music, she take the legs out. It's real. We're doing it like that opening like you know, building places and entering the model like she owned the building. So the creative part come like that. Today we have a really marketing plan and what we want. I'm changing it because the world is changing. So if you ask me what I wanted to do last year and what I want to do now, it's completely different. I feel like people see different. I don't want to do what I did last year. I want to go up and come with a different idea and where, you know, what is the brand. But I want to stay true to the brand. Like it's welcome to the party, it's a party brand, it's a sexy brand. And I want to keep elevated. So you know, try to get all of that together with a planning of like you know, one year. I don't know if you've seen also the Runway we did the last fall winter was a completely story that again when you work with a great production team and me and the team and everyone and you put together and we enjoy of walking and the energy and we laughing and we hugging, you know, dream come true.
- [41:27]
Jeff
Interesting. So yeah, early days, a lot of mistakes on the day to day things. But basically there was actually. I want to ask you this question because I understand the important parts. Like there was a lot of mistakes but you learn from the mistakes. It wasn't really one of the important foundations for retrofit. Important foundations was the vision and the vision accurately being represented in products that people wanted and desired and that carried everything forward. Because in a lot of ways it made the right people believe in what you were working on. It made you work really hard on what you're creating. But in hindsight, do you think the early successful foundations or retrofit were the right people believing in you as a person or in your products and vision specifically?
- [42:15]
Ohad Saroya
Maybe you need to ask them like, you know, like we had amazing products. I'm very emotional as you heard. Like I'm very like, like you know and I think seen on the first season all the big influencer fighting to get this robe and wearing it without even know me, you know, I'm not the guy that looking for the publicity. Like I work with all the wholesale very close. But you know, I'm not, I. I'm not the guy that a celeb or art behind retrofit. It's not my DNA like put me in the beach and be like, you know, topless I'm all about that and going to like sorry going to a big fashion party. It's not my thing. If like you really like we're talking about it. It was a beaut, beautiful product. I was able to be a part of the also team in the beginning, you know, it was only me. We didn't have a team. Right. Sarah my Internet today she's the head of sales. So you know, small kids, big dream. You know. We went to Barney's me and Sarah. Like we didn't believe they even answered the email and we showed them the collection and it was in a dark room and they're like we love it. People loved it. People loved it. Maybe they loved us. I'm still in a good touch with all my buyer and I thank them every day to open the door. You know forward.com was the biggest retail that you know changed the brand because they did a big event with the brand and believed in the brand and I'm very lucky for them. And we also proved them that we are a serious business people because they took us serious so we should be even more serious and show them, hey, we are a partner over here and we go a big business and we have a massive business with them and everyone. We open the door for us. We make sure you have a very healthy business and great people to work with.
- [43:53]
Jeff
Interesting and at a so that people can have something more practical to learn from that early experience. For you. What do you think in hindsight were the most important things or are the most important things people should be focusing on at a very, very early stage? Is it just get one product right? Like just really understand who you are as a designer and get one product writing put it in front of the right people. What do you think at a practical level is the most important thing of those those like very early days.
- [44:20]
Ohad Saroya
You need to know what the market also needs. You know, it's a great what you like but it's you know in the bottom line the buyer need. You know again we were. We came in in the time they wanted a seat. We change over here. I know to say we change the game of the sequence because in the moment that retrofit enter to the game. If you do a research on Fashion 5 it was like six years ago. When we enter to the market everyone start to change a brand to going out and everyone start to do sequence. I'm not saying I own the sequence never come from my mouth. I'm inspired from the 70s, 80s and all of that. But we kind of gave it A kick. You know, we came with like, there was also brands that did before us. Like, you know, and I still give them a lot of respect. We just stretch it. We just make more fun from that. We, you know, there was brand did it, but did it a little too serious and a little too edgy. We just had fun. We just made a robe that most of the girl are naked, but every girl want to wear this robe. And she felt like sexy and people were wearing the brand. And everyone told me, I feel like unique. I feel like I feel special when I wear retrofit. I feel like, you know, sexy, but I feel like I'm going out of my zone. You know, people buy the brand when she is a birthday, when she's getting married, when she's going to. Eventually she's wearing it in the most special time when your energy is in a different place. So I think we create this kind of brand without even be aware that we are creating a brand for your best moments.
- [45:50]
Jeff
Yeah, people that were emotion, like the people were connecting with at a very emotional level.
- [45:55]
Ohad Saroya
We did for end use that, you know, if you ask me about five years and if what was the end use of the brand, I will tell you what's the meaning of end use? Because I didn't know what's the meaning of the word. So this is how like. But I think if you open a brand, what is the end use? Who is wearing it? I ask every brand, who is the girl? Where do you see her wearing it? Like, where she's going with this dress? We thought she's going out and she getting so much attention.
- [46:21]
Jeff
Interesting. And for your own personal creative process, was it more, especially at the beginning, was it more about trying to understand who you were designing for, or was it more about just trying to put product that you yourself were proud in or proud about?
- [46:38]
Ohad Saroya
Experience. I think the first two years it was really experience. And then I really. If you see the first collection, it's beautiful to see all the process and like, you know, it's very, very weird. A lot of artsy and like, really trying and like. And then I think then on the third collection, I understand that I have to be. Go a little back, be more cohesive and start to tell a story more clear and not just creating a party clothes. What. What was the story? How can you combine the two together again? I learned every day. I didn't plan, you know, how to be a designer in the end. In the beginning, we really wanted to make a business. We really want to add an income. We Were really in a place that we had to pay, you know where to make money. You live in New York with the most expensive place in the world. So again, I didn't plan to be a designer. I didn't plan the brand would be like, knock on wood, amazing. I plan just to have a brand, to have like great income, contemporary, few good accounts and you know, flying to Brazil once in a year and I'm good to go.
- [47:46]
Jeff
Yeah. Fascinating how just thinking about things one step at a time and doing something that you're passionate about and sticking to it actually is because people like to over complicate things, right? Because they're afraid of getting started. So they think about all of the variables that they want to think about in order to justify not starting. But at the end of the day, as you said, as long as you're working on something that you're passionate about, as long as you build empathy on who you're designing for and as long as you just learn and surround yourself with the right people, things kind of like add and when you do things long enough, everything kind of like solves itself. If you have those good foundations and you keep working and you keep learning and.
- [48:23]
Ohad Saroya
And I always said, you know, many people come and ask for advice today and it's really nice and I feel very compliment. But when I go and you know, talking with fashion people in fashion school, I said to them few stuff, there's no luck. Work hard, play harder after, like really work out. Like, you know, we worked hard and we're still working hard and we are blessed that we are able to work hard. But you can make your dream come true if you want to work hard and be consistent. You know, we got so many. I don't want to talk about it. But we had so many bad experience in the beginning. So like many times it's like why? Why? But we didn't give up. And like I told you.
- [48:59]
Jeff
Is there one that you could share for the sake of entertainment, of entertainment purposes?
- [49:04]
Ohad Saroya
No, because I don't like to talk about negative stuff that happened to me. But I want to tell you that I learned from them. Many good stuff happened to me also at the same time and I'm very happy. But when something negative happened to you, you have to really learn from that and make sure it won't happen to you again and push out there. But it's a lesson, you know, I always said make some lemon margarita, otherwise don't be in the business game. Other walk, just walk eight to five and you know, have an easy Life.
- [49:30]
Jeff
If you want the store, staying at the store is important to start, but then there's a decision. There's. Do you want to stay at the store? Do you want to start a brand? It's a very different. It's a very different question. Okay.
- [49:42]
Ohad Saroya
Fascinating space to everyone. And I always try to add to small designers, but I do be very transparent about the challenges.
- [49:51]
Jeff
Okay, and let's talk a little bit more about the transitional. And by the way, if you have any hard stop, just. You can feel free to interrupt me at any time, because I can talk about these things forever. But when. When exploring the trend, like the trans. Like the. The very clear transition and period of. Okay, retrofit is starting as a brand, it has some potential to. Okay, this is gonna. This is starting to become something that we didn't even imagine. What were those, like, things, the foundational principles that got it to that point? Great product, like, for example, great product, great vision. Again, working with the right customers, having great people, working behind PR and communications. Like, what do you think were those really, really important foundations for the big transitional period for. For the brand?
- [50:37]
Ohad Saroya
I think you just mentioned them. I think the team, it's like such a big, you know, game changer. I think same time, you know, as a team, but you also have to take the people that doesn't, you know, as the company growing, you have also to edit your team. You know, there's the good of having great people, but there's also, you know, I've been in a position that I had to let people go, people that, you know, build up the brand but were not able to, you know, grow up with the brand and got stuck. I did, you know, not as a bed, but it's not a nice place to be. But a great team can change all the game and the opposite, you know, if you don't have a great team. I think the product is very important. You know, the production, the quality. It's like all this stuff to make this, like, beautiful retrofit world. Pushing your vision, you know, telling the story. You know, when I came with the martini and welcome to the party, people. In the beginning. Let's do it. Let's. Let's put martini. But I'm like, there's a story for that. I didn't just put a martini. I love lychee martini, and this is my drink. So everyone know from age of, like, I used to go to restaurant and all my friends used to, like, give this guy lychee martini and leave us alone. Because this is what odd Will order and it's really putting your story in the brand and go with it like. And then you will see like, you know, just leave it, you know, like. Like I did in so like my last name and like why you did your last name? I'm like, because people call me as a kid Saroya. So. Yeah. So I think it's like putting the story and understand how you tell it and just put it all there and not be shy about that. And you know, in the beginning, I was very not shy. I'm not a shy guy. I didn't know if I want to tell all these stories because I have so many stories and I experienced so many things and I travel so many and I meet so many special people and I have so many great people in my life that impact me every day. And I put all of this stuff like, you see even behind me, like, you know, the camouflage in the army because, you know, my father is in the army and I was always leave this wall. And there's always story behind the brand that people don't even know. So it's not just to create a clothing. I want to be very clear. It's. I'm telling a story behind every item and thinking about me as a woman or the woman that will wear me.
- [52:59]
Jeff
Interesting. Okay, let's. Let's talk a little bit more about the importance of transitioning from, you know, creating products that pursue your vision versus creating products that people want to buy. Because I think this idea is something that. And this idea as a whole. Right? Because it's. It's that balance that people really, really struggle with creatively. It's that balance that people really, really struggle with commercially and from a merchandising perspective, from a management perspective, from a vision perspective. So what was the biggest challenge for you? Was it compromise? Like, is there any type of creative compromise? What was the formula that worked for you?
- [53:38]
Ohad Saroya
There's no formula. You know, I have my amazing. My amazing VP and she's my end. Right. Christine. Cmo. I'm sorry. She will kill me saying vp.
- [53:49]
Jeff
And I have been at the company long enough. She's deservable.
- [53:53]
Ohad Saroya
She's like, you know, and Jillian, my assistant and the head of merchandise, like two girls that are very important from all the building there. And we have always this conversation, you know, it's very, very challenges. How do you bring your creativity and how do you bring the commercial part and put it together? It's very challenge. I have to be very honest because sometimes I get pushed and sometimes I get pushing. I Will shout. Sometimes my team said no. Sometimes my team say yes. Sometimes I said no, I don't care. I do it. Sometimes I have these days, I'm like, no, this is me. And they're like, okay, do it. And when I really feel it, I do it. But as I told you, I'm a listener. And I always tell my team and the people that are very close to me have to have opinion. There's no people that work with me and don't have opinion. Otherwise I don't want them to work with me. Like the people I describe you, they will tell everything they have to say, and they will not keep anything. And this why we work so well. She will explain. She will bring our point of view, and I will bring the point of view. And, you know, I trust her and she trusts me. And if she said, oh, I do really need it, or if I said I really need it, both of us will say, yes, let's do it. Because we believe each other. But we will convince each other that this is the right product for the collection. And listen, sometimes I'm wrong and sometime I'm right. And then we, like, you know, I told you this will be like, this could be like a big thing. And it's happened. But same for both side. But in the end, we work so great together that I think we balance it. But you always want more. I always. When it's the end of the day before we show in the collection, I get panic attack. Everyone know because now we cut also the amount of sampling. And I'm like, we don't have enough samples. We don't have enough debt. And everyone or you need to relax. We have an I call up the ad. Like, I don't with the Bible. Not so. Yeah. There's always this story about if we have enough, if I have my creativity enough, if it's not become too commercial this way. I like, you know, the fashion show. We took a break now. But I think in the fashion show, because I was a dancer and because they show the models and the. And you know, the vibe and, you know, when you see the product on Carolina that, you know Tatini, that she's like model from, you know, she's one of my favorite models. Forever walking with the outfit and the energy and, you know, with the light, I'm like, that's it. I can. I can retire. Like, I really do what I really felt, the energy that I want to express. So I feel like now you bring me why I should do again one way. Maybe in the Future.
- [56:40]
Jeff
Yeah, yeah. And the reason why I asked this question is that it's, it's the most common challenge that I see maybe a little bit more advanced fashion entrepreneurs make. Early on, it's just what type of, like what, what is my creativity even mean?
- [56:54]
Ohad Saroya
Right.
- [56:54]
Jeff
And how do I work on that and how do I explore and how do I find that? But then it's okay. My brand has grown because I have a, you know, a unique DNA that people are resonating with at a deeper level. But now it's a business. Right now we're doing a million dollars a year. Now we're doing late six figures dollars a year. And I need to ask myself those questions, like what do I need to do going forward? Is it just about me? Is it about my vision? Is it about building a merchandising again? People really, really struggle in that transitional period, especially on a day to day practical level. Like, do I expand my categories? Do I work on categories that I don't want? How much should I do all those things? So what was something that worked for you? What was an approach that worked for you during, when you were asking yourself all those questions?
- [57:37]
Ohad Saroya
I think the point you bring, first of all, I have to tell you, we also experience this kind of like challenges. It's something that every designer experience, you know, how do you bring the balance between again, creativity and business? Because like you said, it's more than a million dollar business. And when you have a bad season, it can really impact the company and you have to be very careful because you're also responsible. I have 100 employees. I have to make sure, you know.
- [58:05]
Jeff
It'S not about you.
- [58:07]
Ohad Saroya
I have to make sure I bring money on like this, how we said, I have to make sure that I'm able to pay, you know, everything. So you. When I design the collection, I do think about it. I have to be completely honest. I do think about item that can produce volume, that will get reordered, that will, you know, we have some item that, you know, you know, the other jacket, I didn't think it will sell. I don't want to say the amount, but I didn't think it will sell so well till today. But it did. I forgot now the question because I.
- [58:37]
Jeff
Think I kind of like exploring what that transition looks like at a very, very practical level. When the brand is transitioning from, oh, this is just a creative project that people resonated to now it's a business and I have a responsibility as a founder to take specific decisions on a day to Day basis, especially from a product perspective, because that's what. That's what designers feel very, very personally attached to.
- [58:59]
Ohad Saroya
So we personally to be completely and give you a little more information. We really analyze by delivery by needs. We really, really, I'm telling you, analyze in a level that you will not even believe the information that we are getting to understand exactly the needs by a month, by a season, by a color, by sizing and any information just we really. It's like an IT company with a creative impact. I can really tell you like that. Like, you know, like algorithm in a fashion world. Because this is like, you know, we have to make sure we have a business put in the creativity, understand what's happened. Because it's a stock market. This is how sometimes I explain the market going to this place. Are you following or are you sticking your place? And then you know, it probably will stop. And every brand that you will see today, if you see the fashion show, there's a reason they are all are going on the same trend because they understand where the market is going and we do the same. And I'm not shy about it. I do bring my creativity and the story. But I do see where the market is going and I make sure to go over there. Sometime I gamble. I have to be completely honest. Sometime it's working and sometime it's not. Sometime I have a dream that, you know, I want to be edgy and very like cool cold these days, you know. But sometime I realize that my girl, she's not like that. She's fam. She's flower. She's fun, she's sexy. She's like. She's cool. She's like, you know, she like to drink, she like to enjoy. She's not a quiet girl in the party. She's like me. She party. She's the one that closed the party with the bottles, you know, when they clean the. She's there like the party girls. So I understand who is my girl. I do follow the trends and make sure that I'm a part of the trend and not piece in the trend. I know how to analyze the market. I think it's a very important thing for being a smart designer.
- [60:58]
Jeff
Right. So it's an additional skill. I think that's a greater answer because you need to learn and have. You need to almost have a very logical and rational learning and analysis process to your creativity developments. And it's very difficult to develop because obviously what makes you a good designer a lot of times makes you a very bad rational analyzer. And Vice versa. But it is a skill set that you need to do, and for you, it's okay. How do I analyze everything that's going on with the brand, everything that's working, everything that my customer resonates with so that I can use that as a foundation for my creative decision making? If I decide to ignore a lot of the things that the data is telling me, at least I'm making a conscious decision that I'm ignoring it because I. I have an intuitive sense that the direction where I want to take things creatively makes more sense than what the data is telling me or some seasons is. Okay, now, I don't know. Last season wasn't as strong. I can't take creative risks. So let's just double down on what we can see has worked for our customers.
- [61:55]
Ohad Saroya
Definitely. It's exactly like, you can take too much creative risk. I do take, like, in fall, winter, I did take creative risk that actually, you know, I'm happy that we took this, but we really believe when we saw it on the girl, we knew we got a winner. When we saw this Trip is jacket, when we sold the suiting and when we had the team together and everyone we knew we had something and it actually paid off. It's like, it wasn't a creative risk. It was kind of like, we go up, we decide. I decided, okay, I want to do. I want to show people that I'm more like, I want to show more. I want, you know, I want to do more categories. I want to show blouses. I want to show suiting in a different way. I want to show sequence in a different way. And not being too obvious, I want to show dresses in a different way. And, you know, the blazer that we made at the short sleeve, it was just ideas that I was like, do it or just do it. And when we saw the model, how comfortable and strong, we knew that we had something good.
- [62:56]
Jeff
And does this approach of having a good rational foundation of your decision making and then the creativity to make it all even better does this. Is this something that applies to every important facet of the business? So the communications, the marketing, the product development, all of that, all of those different areas follow the same thought process?
- [63:18]
Ohad Saroya
Yes, kind of a way. I think, you know, I think the marketing and the shooting and everything we do on the Instagram, you should not take it too seriously. You really need to enjoy, like, one of my girl, like, I'm very lucky because most of my team are very young and they bring me a lot of joy. And, you know, they're like, I'm like one of my amazing girl. Like now she's the studies of the company. She's 23 years old and you know, the joy and the fun. And one time I asked her a question about my Instagram and I show a picture of mine. I said, what do you think? Should I post it or not? She said, you're thinking too much. Just post it. It's like you don't act like you are like 39. Like just. And you know, she said something very smart. And I think with the Instagram, of course we're thinking, but we also enjoying the experience and not being like, like it's a brand. It's like she's fun, she's going to a party. She doesn't like, she dressed up, she put the makeup, she like going out. She's like, she, she's retrofit girl. So this is the girl. So we are, we can be like that and enjoy. You know, we are planning to do something. I can't tell you because it's a secret, but it will bring even more fun enjoy to the brand because this is what we want.
- [64:30]
Jeff
And what about we're working with the right clients and retail partners. Is it the same? Like, how do you choose those right partners? Is it also a balance of which ones have the best commercial viability with which ones are the most brand compatible? Is it a balance between those two questions?
- [64:45]
Ohad Saroya
Are you talking about department store?
- [64:47]
Jeff
Department stores, yeah. Retail partners, independent stores, boutiques.
- [64:51]
Ohad Saroya
Yeah. I think first of all was, you know, a relationship that, you know, growing up, I think many, many retailers didn't till today don't believe, you know, the business. Only when they sign up with us and understand how much business a young brand can bring to their, you know, to them then they are in shock. We had many people, we literally like in the beginning, everyone jumped in and some people, you know, just fade it or keep it a very small business. And when we enter and been a little more aggressive or many brand, many store that dropped us after, I think after the pandemic, you know, it was completely. And we really convinced them and we had to convince them and we saw how much business we bring to them. It changed again to everyone. And now when we know their clientele and we work with them and we listen to them because we're not coming. Oh, we bring your business. We like, we want to bring you more business. We are a business people tell us what you need. We want to make sure your business is healthy. This style is not working. We Are taking it. We are not here to tell you no. We want the business to be super healthy and grow every season and I think with all our partner, everyone's seeing it and it just like, you know, it's great to be in this position because you know, in the beginning some people didn't want to work with you until today. We have some retailers that are not interested to work with us and we are like asking us, do you understand the business that you guys are losing and people loving the brand? But sometimes we don't know the reason and we cannot.
- [66:25]
Jeff
Yeah, you can. You can't come to that answer.
- [66:28]
Ohad Saroya
Yeah, you don't want, you don't want who is working with us making a great business and we are very happy for them. And I'm sure, you know, if we keep showing consistency and keeping evolving, more and more accounts will come but slow and sadly we are very happy in where we are today and very blessed. Of course we want to go, but we want to go slow now. We don't want to go first. This is not the idea. We are not chasing after more stores if it's all coming knocking. We want to build a strong relationship and a business and not just putting the products over there to say, oh, we are there.
- [67:00]
Jeff
Okay. And when you're just to explore the consistency aspect because it's been the common topic for this conversation. When you think about who you're designing for and when you have to balance that with what a client wants. So a department store for example, are you always just thinking about who the customer is and driving everything behind that or are you also thinking who is the customer and who is the wholesale and the department buyer and what do they want? Like how much do they go into like the day to day decision making.
- [67:34]
Ohad Saroya
Process or they don't have any decision but I understand that the consumer is still want something sexy but not too sexy. You know we have some dresses that you know that are selling great in our D2C with high sleet, open back and strap. This will not go to Neiman Marcus or Saks Fifth Avenue, but we have our Llama collection that it's a sharp price point575 gowns with a stretch fabric with the right coverage and just a little peek of open back. And this is the department store and it's a big category for us. It's doing also amazing for us in the D2C but this is more the department store and we see that she's going there. So when we design the collection we understand what she wants. She want a peekaboo of sexiness, but she doesn't want to be like, you know, too. Too open.
- [68:25]
Jeff
Right.
- [68:25]
Ohad Saroya
So. And I like that, you know, and I love that now the trend, it's a little more preppy. A line are back boat neck. I love this trend. So for me, when I did it already for fall, and now we launch all this kind of category. It's doing amazing in our D2C and in the department so that it's a little more cover. You know, it's mini, but very a line. All these balloon shape are coming back on fashion. So there's a great opportunity over here to develop this kind of business.
- [68:53]
Jeff
Incredible. Yeah. So it's. It's more a factor of how you develop the collection as a whole. In general, you're designing for the retrofit girl, as you said, but you're designing the collections in the waist so that the vision that you're designing can be a little bit more flexible and adaptable to the specific preferences of clients of people. That's the whole point of having a good collection is to have a balance that everybody can kind of like identify with and pick from whether it's a customer, you know, on their house that again, is not looking for something sexy to a department store that has a very, very specific type of customer that's looking for very. Something very, very specific.
- [69:32]
Ohad Saroya
You know, I had a trunk show in Orlando with amazing boutique that they are fine after the storm and asked me to come to a trunk show. And a mom and a daughter came and she showed me that the mom and the daughter. The daughter is 16 years old and the mother was like 48. And both of them buying retrofit. And they show me the dresses and the daughter. And I think this is the beauty also of the brand. And this is also, you know, people don't like to say I'm a department store brand. We are not a department store brand. We are a brand that can fit a department store to D2C and a boutique. But it's a great to see that we have the two customer that can be able to buy the product. And it's not only for specific market even that we design it for going out, but like also for occasion.
- [70:19]
Jeff
Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. And I asked these questions because again, it's finding that those balances that people really, really struggle with. Right. How do I balance the creativity in the business? How do I balance what the department store client wants versus what I want for my customer? How do I balance what this specific type of customer wants? Versus what this specific type of customer wants. These are all the questions that people start asking themselves at a more advanced level. Amazing. Ohad, any important questions or things you think that we have not discussed so far in terms of the success of retrofit, strategically speaking, maybe like focusing more on D2C or E commerce or do you think foundationally we've covered everything or. DTC is also very, very important.
- [70:59]
Ohad Saroya
DTC is very important I think also for the DNA of the brand. I think it's one of the smartest thing we did to our company. The retrofit world we are calling it. We are also selling Saroya and other brands from the showroom that actually sit sorry perfectly with the brand. And it's also help you to, you know, with the minimum with the factory. It's helping you to grow the business. Again, be careful. People have a feeling that when they open D2C you need one person. I have around 25 people only on the D2C. It's a big business but it's, you know, maintain and you need to have a great team to maintain this great business. I also recommend, you know, when people ask me about brand, it's like be very appreciate for your team and the people around you. Tell them thank you, you know, you couldn't do it without them and you know, and be thankful for what you have. We breathe, we walk sunny outside. We should be very thankful and then we can do great business.
- [72:04]
Jeff
And what do you, what, what do you think entrepreneurs that are trying to understand how to sell their brands, if it's going to be D2C, if it's going to be wholesale, what do you think are those questions you should be asking yourselves in terms of what's more, what's more compatible to what you're working on?
- [72:20]
Ohad Saroya
You mean like where they should start? Like which.
- [72:23]
Jeff
Yeah, because there's so many things people can do nowadays and you know, especially if they have something and it's growing or has the potential growing. It's what's the question? Do I, do I focus on wholesale? Do I focus on D2C? Like what's the, what's the answer? How do you explore that question?
- [72:37]
Ohad Saroya
Let me give you some tip because you're asking really stuff that can help the small designer. And I think this is where the problem of financial like, you know, I think it's very important that you know, first of all, when you open D2C there's one thing you need always minimum for your orders. If you are able to find a factory that able to Achieve your small orders, you got a winner if you have a great quality. Because I feel like what's the problem? Small brand are opening and even if they go to wholesale with the payment terms and the condition and the discount and everything that they have to be very careful. You know, it can be like, you know, do you think you're making money? But then in the bottom line you don't make money because when you get net 60, 10, 15 discount and you have to pay to the factory in advance, you have so much window of like you are paying an own to everyone. But you don't actually make the money because by the time you're going to get paid, you need to make another collection and you actually always your cash flow is not positive and if you create a D2C your margin is higher. But again many designers don't know how to calculate the margin that this is a completely conversation that you know, we can talk about it hours and days. It's very important to hire people that understand the markup and the margin of the product. And many people don't calculate between landed margin and offer B margin and don't understand that there's a difference between a blouse and a pants between the markup and the custom charts. Depends where you made it. So this is all completely business that you know, many people don't know. Like I have this idea, I'm like do you know that blouses have 40% and pants have 20%? People don't even understand that. So I think you really need to think where you're going. If you have the finance to go immediately. D2C with a strong marketing enable not to overspend on inventory but you believe you have a strong product and you can create a great browse on your D2C on the brand. The wholesale account will come in the end if you have a strong branding, something that's really hard and cost a lot of money, mean that you need a PR. The PR just for you. It's around $8,000 a month. A good PR if you want to like and you need also a good product because in the bottom line, if you have a good PR and a good showroom and you don't have a good product, it's worth, it's not worth anything. So I think it's like the eggs and the chicken. I just, it's. You really need to think how you do it. I just gave you a lot of tips that if a designer hear it, you really need to take this information seriously because I've been there And I know it. And from experience, it's all about that. You know, I always said it's all about the margin because this margin will make sure to cover many stuff. And that's. It's not about only being, making money, it's about being able to grow. Because when you have the demand, you will need to put more money on product, on shipping and a team. And if you want a great team, it costs a great money and they wove the money, but it costs money. And if you want to show in Paris, it costs a lot of money and more and more and more. I just give you a tip.
- [75:47]
Jeff
Well, I'll leave. As you said, this is a topic of conversation that we could, we could talk for hours in. So I'm gonna end the conversation there and hopefully use it as a teacher for a part two of a conversation sometime. I think that so far we spoke about the most important thing. What at the end of the day is really understanding what your vision is all about and how to deliver consistency in that vision with the different variables that are always attacking that consistency from an external perspective. Visions, expanding growth, all these different things. So ending question would be, is there any other, and especially you, that you, you are very open into teaching the next generation of designers. Is there any other very important piece of advice that you'd like to share that you haven't shared so far in this conversation?
- [76:31]
Ohad Saroya
Just do it and get your hands dirty. Touch everything you can touch. Work in many jobs, as I said, and I will keep saying, I worked in three jobs. I enjoy working, you know, as many jobs because, you know, everyone want to party in a young age. This is not the time to party. Today I party, I travel the world I experience, but at a young age, as a young kid, I walk day, night, not only for the finance. I met people, I learned from people. I, you know, I worked at the restaurant, I work in a, in Diesel, I work as an airdresser. I really learned from all this experience that helped me to be a better person, a great businessman, you know, businessman, great people, other people can say and implement all this experience in your life and take the, the bad and the good, learn from the bad and learn from the good and just expand and take it from there.
- [77:25]
Podcast Host
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Beyond Fashion Business podcast. Hope you found it valuable. If you're interested in joining our free fashion business course in our community of fashion entrepreneurs, make sure you click on the link in the description of this episode. I hope that they are also a.
- [77:40]
Jeff
Valuable tool in your fashion journey.
- [77:41]
Podcast Host
See you again soon.