BibleProject Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: How Should Jude Influence How We Think About the Deuterocanon?

Date: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Tim & John
Context: Q&R on the letter of Jude, its approach to scripture, early Christian traditions, church history, and the Deuterocanon (books outside the Jewish/Protestant canon).

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the Letter of Jude (aka Judah), focusing on how its content and Jude's scriptural references can inform our understanding of the Deuterocanon and the broader “library” of texts considered scripture in early Christianity. Tim and John field listener questions about Jesus' family, ancient Christian practices, the nature of scripture and canon, spiritual beings, and the shift in worldview from ancient to modern times. The conversation remains lively, nerdy, and full of thoughtful hyperlinks to biblical texts and traditions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Identity of Jesus’ Brothers and Perpetual Virginity of Mary (03:17—19:17)

• Questions From: Ashley (Cincinnati), Jeff (Texas)
• Discussion:

  • Explores traditional and alternative views regarding Jesus’ siblings (half-brothers, cousins, or step-brothers).

  • Perpetual Virginity of Mary: Tim summarizes New Testament scholar Brant Petrie’s arguments that Mary may have taken a vow of celibacy, supported by textual clues and early church tradition.

    • Mary’s response (“I do not know a man”—Luke 1:34) is present tense, indicating ongoing celibacy, not just prior virginity.
    • The cultural-religious context included vows of celibacy, supported by Numbers 30 and referenced by Paul in 1 Corinthians.
    • Jesus’ choice of celibacy as echoing heavenly realities and possibly Mary’s example.
    • Early church consensus (2nd–3rd century onwards) held Mary’s perpetual virginity and the “brothers” as cousins or step-siblings, not her biological children.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • Tim (07:59): “Her response is a little bit strange. I do not know a man. I don't know men is what she says... I don't have sex with men. So how is it that I'm pregnant?”
    • John (13:56): “That would be so strange if he has four brothers. That's weird. So just little things. You're like, oh, that's interesting. Why is he doing that?”
    • Tim (18:18): “In the New Testament, there is ample room for the earlyness of the view...that Mary had taken a vow of celibacy and that that's what all this is rooted in…”

2. The Love Feast: Early Christian Meals and the Lord’s Supper (19:22—31:09)

• Question From: Taylor (Houston)
• Discussion:

  • Agape/‘Love’ Feasts: Jude’s mention of ‘love meals’ (agapē) points to communal Christian meals celebrating Jesus’ presence (Jude v.12).

    • Early Christian practice combined the Lord’s Supper (bread & wine) with an actual meal.
    • Historical sources: Writings of Ignatius, Clement, Tertullian affirm weekly communal agape meals.
    • Only later did ritual bread-and-cup (Eucharist) separate from the communal meal.
    • Jewish roots: Parallels to Sabbath and Passover meals, plus innovations like those found at Qumran.

  • Application: Encouragement for modern listeners to consider reclaiming communal meals as part of Christian practice.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • Tim (23:28): “It's the same meal. ...In the background to the practice are the common meals of Judaism.”
    • John (29:52): “I could tell as Taylor asked the question, her wheels are spinning a little bit like is there something for me here, a meal that I need to get in on?”

3. Jude’s Source Material and the Deuterocanon (31:14—43:33)

• Question From: Ian (Kaiser, OR)
• Discussion:

  • Jude quotes not only canonized Hebrew Bible but also books like 1 Enoch, raising questions about how early Christians (and Jews) viewed scripture vs. other religious writings (“church library”).

  • Canon & Scroll Technology: The ancients’ experience of scripture was as a set of scrolls, not a single ‘book,’ allowing a more flexible relationship to non-canonical literature.

  • Distinction between “scripture proper” and other authoritative spiritual writings was real, but boundaries were porous, especially before the technology of the codex/book.

  • The key criteria for canon: texts that bore witness to Jesus and originated from prophets and apostles.

  • Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox traditions differ on the Deuterocanon, but early Protestants still included Deuterocanonical books as an appendix.

  • Encouragement to value such writings for spiritual formation, even if not canonical.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • Tim (33:50): “The difference in technology, the shift from scroll collection to the codex or the book, forces a way of conceiving of a collection that wouldn't occur to you in the same way.”
    • John (41:43): “There was a delineation in their mind of this is Scripture and this is kind of literature that accompanies scripture.”
    • Tim (43:17): “Some of the earliest Protestant Bibles had them printed in the same codex as an appendix...You'd carry them along with you.”

4. Spiritual Beings, the Nephilim, and Worldview Shifts (44:01—57:54)

• Questions From: Josh (Genesis 6) and Dave (spirit beings in Jude vs. John)
• Discussion:

  • Genesis 6 and Divine Beings: Ancient near eastern and Greco-Roman myths believed in interbreeding between divine and human; the Bible only hints at it (Genesis 6), and always negatively—as catastrophic, not normative.

  • Not an ongoing concern for biblical authors; spiritual threat is more about deception and spiritual warfare than literal hybridization.

  • Spiritual Realm in Jude vs. John:

    • Jude’s world is populated by active spiritual beings (angels, demons).
    • John’s gospel, in contrast, doesn’t mention exorcisms; focuses on cosmic conflict between Jesus and the “ruler of this world.”
    • Both approaches reflect legitimate but different emphases and are still resonant today for many non-Western Christians.

  • Encouragement to modern listeners: The biblical worldview assumes more than meets the eye—our lives play out in an enchanted, spiritually charged cosmos, not just a materialist universe.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • Tim (46:57): “[Genesis 6] is a sign...of an illicit merging of heaven and earth to restore eternal life to the humans. So God's like, shut down on that project.”
    • Tim (55:15): “This kind of worldview is still held by millions of people around the world still today. ...and for them there's no disconnect when they read the New Testament. They're just like, yep, that's my world.”
    • John (56:16): “Make sure I have a real cosmic view of what sometimes might feel like just everyday kind of decisions.”
    • Tim (57:00): “What if that universe isn't just like impersonal quantum forces, but it's actually like an enchanted inhabited world surrounding me that if I don't have eyes to see it, maybe that's my problem, you know?”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[01:13] Tim:
“You know, it's just an under explored corner of the New Testament...a window into all this wild stuff.”

[04:41] John:
“That's probably a gold star. Gold star. We're in it.”

[23:28] Tim:
“It's the same meal...in the background to the practice are the common meals of Judaism.”

[33:50] Tim:
“The difference in technology, the shift from scroll collection to the codex or the book, forces a way of conceiving of a collection that wouldn't occur to you in the same way.”

[57:00] Tim:
“What if that universe isn't just like impersonal quantum forces, but it's actually like an enchanted inhabited world surrounding me that if I don't have eyes to see it, maybe that's my problem, you know?”

Important Timestamps

• 03:17: Listener questions begin: Who were Jesus’ brothers?
• 06:33—14:05: The biblical and cultural case for perpetual virginity and family structure
• 19:22: What were early Christian “love feasts”?
• 31:14: How did early Christians and Jews understand scripture and extra-canonical writings?
• 43:33: Deuterocanonical books: their role and respect in tradition
• 44:01: Divine beings, Nephilim, and ancient cross-species myths
• 50:41: Jude, John, and how spiritual beings are depicted
• 57:00: The “enchanted” biblical cosmos and how this shapes faith today

Tone and Style Notes

• The tone is nerdy, approachable, and honest, with Tim emphasizing scholarly depth and John grounding the conversation in practical or relatable concerns.
• Frequent use of “hyperlinks” to connect biblical themes across books and traditions.
• Hosts freely admit uncertainty and the complexity of historical debates, inviting curiosity rather than dogmatism.

Final Reflection

The episode closes by recognizing the strangeness yet richness of Jude: it challenges regular categories, pushes listeners to think beyond Western rationalism, and calls believers to a worldview “enchanted” with the reality of God’s presence and action both spiritually and materially. The hosts encourage ongoing curiosity and exploration, both about canon and about the kinds of communal practices and worldviews that could deepen modern understanding and practice of faith.

For further study/recommendations:

• “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary” by Brant Petrie
• “Last Supper and Lord’s Supper” by I. Howard Marshall
• Commentaries by Richard Bauckham (on Jude)
• Writings of Michael Heiser (“The Unseen Realm,” “Angels,” “Demons”)

Next Episode Teaser:
The next podcast will begin reading through the Psalm scroll, starting with Psalm 1, to further explore meditation literature in the Bible.