Podcast Summary: BibleThinker with Mike Winger

Episode: I Can Finally Show You The Evidence
Date: January 28, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Winger delivers an in-depth exposé on Todd White and the culture of "cover up" within high-profile charismatic ministries. Following previous anonymous accusations, Mike now publicly shares extensive evidence, including open letters from former insiders, staff meeting recordings, firsthand testimonies, and direct commentary highlighting cover-up practices, manipulation, and the dangers posed to followers and students of White's ministry. The episode also addresses the complicity of leadership figures who have failed to hold White and similar figures accountable, even after repeated warnings. Winger places special emphasis on biblical requirements for leadership, the responsibility to protect the vulnerable, and the urgent need for transparency and independent investigation.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Urgent Need for Independent Investigation

• Mike Winger opens by stating that his ministry is offering to fund an independent investigation of Todd White’s ministry up to $100,000 if they will approve it ([00:00]).
• Rationale: Open, transparent investigation is the only way to restore trust; secrecy, NDAs, and evasions are dangerous for the body of Christ.

"If they will simply approve the investigation, we will foot the bill."
— Mike Winger ([00:22])

2. Witness Testimonies & Open Letters From Insiders

Four Major Letters (Read in Detail by Mike)

• Robert McKinney (Former CEO/Board Member):

  • Deeply involved; describes White as unaccountable, manipulative, and self-serving ([14:50]—[41:46]).
  • Shares specific incidents (e.g., ministry funds for a protection dog, pressure for first-class travel).
  • Observes ministry transitioned from genuine outreach to control and emotional manipulation.

• Joseph Blodgett (Event Director, Teaching Pastor):

  • Witnessed fear, manipulation, betrayal of trust, and division among staff.
  • Offers public repentance for times he failed to stand up.
  • Pleads for NDAs to be lifted, independent review, and prioritizing the flock over White’s reputation ([41:46]—[49:53]).

• Rashid Salem (Board Member):

  • Recounts initial hope for reform, then shock at systemic deception.
  • Details attempts to bring accountability, the use of NDAs/retaliation, and influential leaders deflecting action ([49:53]—[80:04]).
  • Describes Todd’s association with leaders to give appearance of accountability, but confides, "In practice, Todd has proven to be highly skilled at using scripture for his own advantage, challenging others not to question him, while manipulating and distorting realities for his benefit" ([80:04]).
  • Lists Paul Allen and Gary York as enablers who reversed their stances after pressure.

• Hershey Schaffner (Associate/Teaching Pastor, Director of Power and Love):

  • Provides vivid examples of public versus private hypocrisy, temper tantrums, and unfounded accusations against reformers ([80:04]—[89:25]).
  • Admits his own complicity by remaining silent and offers repentance.

Notable Quote

"I write because silence in the face of manipulation becomes complicity."
— Robert McKinney ([41:32])

3. Expose of Staff Meetings and Internal Surveys

• Audio evidence reveals staff candidly describing White as the "opposite of Jesus," that “every department has been manipulated,” and “this ministry is not about Jesus, it’s about Todd” ([93:47]—[105:10]).
• Survey of leaders scored White the lowest in accountability and fruit of repentance ([97:49]).

Notable Quotes

"I've yet to see, in two years of being here, him prefer another human being over himself."
— Unnamed Staff Member ([94:31])

"Every department has been manipulated. Every department."
— Unnamed Staff Member ([96:41])

"The only thing I can think of is God. He's the only one that is."
— Unnamed Staff Member on holding White accountable ([100:09])

4. The Role of Prominent Cover-up Figures

• Patricia King:

  • Publicly defended White post-exposé, warning against “infection” from the video's revelations and questioning the reliability of anonymous sources ([185:56]—[194:23]).
  • Used spiritual language to frame accusations as “accuser of the brethren,” minimizing allegations and suggesting divine opposition to public exposure ([204:43]).
  • Later, her video was pulled, but she continued associations with White.

• Gary York:

  • VP of Lifestyle Christianity, described as a persistent "yes-man" who shuts down whistleblowers and enables harm by enforcing NDAs and controlling access to information ([207:19]).
  • Known for similar cover-up roles, including in previous abuse investigations involving other leaders.

• Paul Allen:

  • Vacillated from calling the ministry “a fraud” privately to publicly raising funds and supporting White ([129:17]—[131:03]).

• Randy Hooper and External Leaders:

  • Brought into accountability meetings, but pressed for resignations and dismissed concerns, modeling the “outsource accountability” tactic ([117:25]—[129:46]).

"None of our boards can hold us accountable."
— As relayed by Randy Hooper on charismatic mega-leader boards ([117:25])

5. Dangerous Teachings & Physical Harm to Followers

• White teaches against the use of medication, calling pharmaceuticals “witchcraft” and instructing students to throw away life-saving meds and engage in extreme fasting ([158:31]—[170:06]).
• Several examples of students experiencing harm after following these teachings.

Notable Quotes

"I am 100% against the whole medicine factor. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it."
— Todd White ([160:35])

"Logic and reason are enemies of faith."
— Todd White ([164:54])

6. Timeline of Ministry Turmoil

• 2017: Sean Bolz’s prophecy used for major fundraising (deleted after Bolz scandal) ([54:06]—[56:45]).
• 2019–2023: Mass staff and board walkouts, repeated cycles of bringing in “big name” outsiders, then purging them ([105:10]).
• 2023: Board composition changes; NDAs invoked; outside leaders lean toward protecting White.
• 2024–2025: Multiple failed attempts at reform, public pushback, “cover up” intensifies, even as public evidence grows.

7. Manipulation, Control, and Self-Exaltation

• White claims miraculous powers, sinless perfection, and unchallengeable authority—contradicted by staff and board testimony ([195:41]).
• Staff describe fear, “manipulation in every department,” and White’s anger/intimidation behind closed doors.
• White’s self-image management (e.g., the chopping of his dreadlocks) contrasted with behaviors reported by witnesses ([139:21]—[142:13]).

"I just want to be known for my love and not my hair."
— Todd White ([140:43])

8. Calls to Action

• Winger pleads for more witnesses, especially from within charismatic circles, to stand for truth despite risks ([236:46]).
• Announces toddwhitepetition.com for people involved in Lifestyle Christianity to demand dropped NDAs and independent review ([07:38]).
• Asserts willingness to welcome repentance and restoration but insists disqualified leaders must not be returned to ministry ([07:42]).

9. Reflections on Cover-up Culture

• Recurring Patterns Identified:
  • Boards stacked with loyalists or the leader’s family ([113:00]).
  • Reputation management prioritized over care for victims.
  • Slander and manipulation deployed against those who attempt reform.
  • “Impossible standards” or manipulated biblical language used to dissuade exposure.
  • High-profile leaders shield one another, passing accountability to outside figures who ultimately do nothing.

"Cover up culture is real. It involves big names who sometimes intimidate boards and a rule that boards ultimately cannot control the leader, even though when there's disasters, they're exactly the people who are supposed to do that."
— Mike Winger ([236:46])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Nature of the Problem

"Silence in the face of manipulation becomes complicity."
— Robert McKinney ([41:32])

"When you can't prove someone wrong, you get them on protocol. This is cover up Culture 101."
— Mike Winger ([186:57])

On Board Responsibility

"It is your responsibility, according to the laws. It is the 501c3 responsibility, the board, to make sure that not one man can go rogue and do what he wants to do in real life."
— Unnamed Staff Member ([112:54])

On Medication & Reason

"I hate it. Logic and reason are enemies of faith... I am in rebellion against logic and I am in rebellion against reason."
— Todd White ([165:00])

Timed Segment Guide

| Time | Key Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–07:38| Call for open investigation/Intro to evidence | | 14:50–41:46| Reading of Robert McKinney’s Open Letter | | 41:46–49:53| Joey Blodgett and the call for accountability | | 49:53–80:04| Rashid Salem’s testimony and attempts at reform | | 80:04–89:25| Hershey Schaffner, culture of fear/manipulation | | 93:00–105:10| Staff meeting recordings, culture exposed | | 117:25–129:46 | External leaders' involvement (Hooper, Allen)| | 139:21–142:13 | White's manipulation of public image (hair) | | 158:31–170:06 | White’s anti-medication, dangerous doctrine | | 185:56–194:23 | Patricia King’s public defense/Cover-ups | | 204:43 | Spiritualization of exposure, “Accuser of the Brethren”| | 221:25–236:46 | Examples of Todd’s inconsistent testimony |

Concluding Takeaways

• Mike Winger closes by reaffirming biblical priorities: defending the vulnerable, enforcing true accountability, and holding fast to Christ as the foundation—not charismatic personalities.
• The episode issues a resounding warning against cover-up culture and the idolization of leaders in the church. Winger appeals to those still inside to step forward and to the wider body to pursue truth, grace, and courageous reform.

“If nothing else, I hope you will acknowledge that cover up culture is real and has to be dealt with. The way it can be dealt with is with transparency, accountability, courage, and a commitment to normal people – not just leaders.”
— Mike Winger ([89:25])

Resources Referenced

• toddwhitepetition.com – For those affected to demand accountability and independent investigation.
• The full Cover Up Culture video series on BibleThinker (YouTube).

This summary was structured for clarity and depth, capturing the episode’s key themes, detailed testimonies, strategic timestamps, and the original, direct language of the speakers as per the request.