Rupert Soames speaks to Felicity Hannah for his final interview before he stands down as Chair of the Confederation of British Industry (CBI). He describes his surprise at the limited understanding many ministers and policymakers have of the realities faced by business leaders, particularly when it comes to employment, investment, and economic growth.

With the Employment Rights Bills ping-ponging its way between the House of Lords and the House of Commons, Soames expresses concern over measures that have increased the cost and risk of employing people, particularly younger workers. He points to the Bill as a source of uncertainty, saying that while compromise was reached on some aspects, the overall effect may be to discourage job creation and make it harder for those with gaps in their employment history to find work, especially post-covid.

Brexit and its economic consequences are explored with Soames describing the outcome as “really, really, really bad" for the UK’s economic prospects. However, he acknowledged the need to move forward and reset the UK’s relationship with the European Union, but expresses concern about the slow pace of doing so, and the persistence of unproductive patterns in UK-EU relations, calling this "Code Red".

Soames does credit the Labour government with progress in areas such as global trade agreements and regulatory reform, insisting they've done better in this regard than many before, but highlights a persistent gap between rhetoric and action.

The interview also covers the challenges faced by Soames when he joined the CBI in 2024, following allegations of sexual abuse that were reported April 2023 in the Guardian. He reflects on restoring the reputation of the organisation and convincing swathes of major organisation to re-join, after many quit or suspended their memberships.

Presenter: Felicity Hannah Producer: Olie D'Albertanson Editor: Henry Jones

00:00 Sean Farrington and Fliss set up interview 02:40 Rupert Soames joins pod and discusses CBI scandal 13:40 Budget impact on business 20:00 Employment Rights Bill 23:55 Is government creating climate for growth? 25:00 Civil service has grown too large 27:15 Shocking how little government understands business 29:00 Government doing better than EU and US on AI adoption 30:00 Some people were seduced by then opposition govt; It was performative 32:53 Brexit has played out really, really, really badly 38:00 What is Rupert optimistic about?