Forensic Science Center (Part I)

Summary

Big Ideas Lab: Forensic Science Center (Part I) – Detailed Summary

Release Date: July 1, 2025 | Host: Mission.org

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Introduction

In the inaugural episode titled "Forensic Science Center (Part I)" of the Big Ideas Lab podcast, Mission.org takes listeners on an immersive journey inside the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL). The episode delves into the untold stories, pioneering scientists, and groundbreaking technologies of the Forensic Science Center (FSC), showcasing how this elite team plays a pivotal role in solving complex forensic cases that shape our world.

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The Genesis of Forensic Investigations at LLNL

The episode opens with a gripping recount of a 1978 incident on a Midwestern college campus. A security guard discovers a suspicious package, leading to an unexpected phone call to LLNL from law enforcement—a deviation from the usual scientific collaborations. The package, a crude yet meticulously crafted bomb, was part of a series of mail bombs spanning nearly two decades, culminating in the notorious Unabomber case.

Narrator [00:03]:
"On a routine morning in 1978, a security guard was making his rounds at a college campus in the Midwest..."

Armando Alcaraz [01:01]:
"Blew up in the computer sciences building."

This series of unexplained bombings highlighted the urgent need for advanced forensic capabilities, setting the stage for the establishment of the FSC at LLNL.

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Founding of the Forensic Science Center

Brian Andreessen, the founder and former director of the FSC, shares his academic journey that led to the center's inception. During his time at MIT in the 1960s, Andreessen worked with cutting-edge technologies—gas chromatography and mass spectrometry—that would become the backbone of modern forensic science.

Brian Andreessen [03:44]:
"It all goes back to graduate school... gas chromatography and mass spectrometry."

These analytical chemistry techniques allow scientists to decipher the complex composition of materials, akin to identifying the various vegetables in a soup through a colander analogy.

The technology's potential was demonstrated when LLNL analyzed moon samples from the Apollo missions, searching for signs of life but instead detecting residues from the astronauts' equipment.

Armando Alcaraz [04:24]:
"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

Brian Andreessen [04:37]:
"I can pick it up loosely with my toe."

This high-profile analysis showcased the laboratory's capabilities, garnering public attention through a televised broadcast on CBS Evening News.

Brian Andreessen [05:12]:
"Mass spectrometry is so sensitive, if I had a drop of blood, I could tell you all the chemicals in it."

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Catalyst for Forensic Expansion

The publicized demonstration of mass spectrometry's prowess caught the attention of the medical community. A physician at Massachusetts General Hospital faced a medical mystery involving a patient overdosing on unknown substances. Upon analyzing the patient's blood, LLNL scientists identified the drug as Darvon, a potent narcotic pain reliever, enabling timely medical intervention and saving the patient’s life.

Brian Andreessen [05:48]:
"He was able to then give an antidote for the Darvon and treat her. And she was recovered and saved."

This success spurred a global demand for forensic analysis, leading to increased collaboration with law enforcement and intelligence agencies worldwide.

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Establishment and Growth of the Forensic Science Center

In response to the burgeoning need, Brian Andreessen spearheaded the creation of the FSC at LLNL in 1991. Armando Alcaraz, with a background in gas chromatography and mass spectrometry, joined as the international programs lead, bringing expertise and dedication to the team.

Brian Andreessen [07:22]:
"We can make a real mark in forensics around the world."

Armando Alcaraz [07:55]:
"My background is gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, similar to what Brian did."

The FSC was designed to handle a diverse array of samples—from nuclear material to explosive residues—necessitating a multidisciplinary approach. The team included synthesis chemists who could interpret and reconstruct chemical compounds, enhancing the center’s analytical capabilities.

Armando Alcaraz [08:22]:
"We may find something... that's a second precursor to be able to make TNT."

This comprehensive expertise allowed the FSC to tackle increasingly complex cases, building a reputation for precision and reliability.

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Notable Cases and International Impact

One of the FSC’s early international successes involved aiding the Polish police in uncovering a sinister scheme among paramedics. Using liquid chromatography mass spectrometry (LC-MS), the FSC identified the presence of Pavilon, a muscle relaxer typically used for euthanasia, in the bloodstream of critical patients. This discovery revealed that paramedics were intentionally overdosing patients to profit from a kickback system, leading to the apprehension of those responsible.

Armando Alcaraz [10:22]:
"They had an arrangement with one of the mortuaries... they'll put DIESEL fuel on top of it... always a smoking gun."

Another significant case in 1999 involved the interception of a vehicle at the Bulgarian-Romanian border carrying highly enriched uranium. The FSC's detailed forensic analysis not only confirmed the material's origin but also provided critical insights into the potential manufacturing processes, aiding in the crackdown of nuclear smuggling networks.

Armando Alcaraz [12:14]:
"Was the sample reactor grade? Weapons grade? Where did it come from?"

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Technological Advancements in Forensic Science

The episode highlights the remarkable advancements in forensic technology over the decades. Brian Andreessen emphasizes the evolution from analyzing microgram samples to ultra-trace analysis at the femtogram level, enabling the detection of substances present in extraordinarily minute quantities.

Brian Andreessen [14:21]:
"Trace analysis was like a few hundred micrograms... nowadays we look at nanograms, which is a billionth of a gram."

This heightened sensitivity allows the FSC to process even the smallest pieces of evidence, such as the chemical residues from a single fingerprint, providing invaluable leads in investigations.

Brian Andreessen [14:53]:
"You can almost take one fingerprint... see all the chemicals that the person has in their body."

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Real-Life Forensics vs. Television Portrayals

The podcast juxtaposes the meticulous, time-consuming nature of real-life forensic work with the swift, dramatized portrayals often seen on television shows like CSI. The FSC's analysts, while not donning sunglasses or flashy attire, approach each case with unparalleled thoroughness to ensure that their findings stand up to legal scrutiny.

Armando Alcaraz [16:53]:
"We don't have sunglasses on during, you know, we're in the laboratory..."

Brian Andreessen [15:28]:
"You’ve got to be absolutely sure, especially if you go to court and get cross-examined."

The rigorous quality control systems at the FSC ensure that every piece of evidence is double-checked and verified, providing solid, court-admissible results.

Armando Alcaraz [16:01]:
"With our current quality control system, we won't generate a report unless we can verify."

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Case Study: The Gloria Ramirez Incident

A particularly intriguing case discussed is that of Gloria Ramirez, a woman with late-stage cervical cancer who was admitted to the emergency room. Her treatment regimen included dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) and codeine, which led to the accidental exposure of hospital staff to toxic compounds. The FSC's analysis debunked theories of a viral or alien disease, pinpointing the chemical interactions as the root cause of the symptoms experienced by the medical personnel.

Brian Andreessen [18:19]:
"She was taking DMSO... which carries anything mixed with it through the skin into the bloodstream."

Narrator [19:14]:
"It wasn't a case of mass hysteria... it was a simple drug interaction."

This case exemplifies the FSC’s ability to unravel complex biochemical interactions, providing clear, scientifically-backed explanations for medical mysteries.

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Commitment to Quality and Continuous Improvement

The FSC maintains its stellar reputation through unwavering dedication to quality and continuous professional evaluations. Annual proficiency tests, which include a variety of challenging samples, ensure that the team remains at the forefront of forensic science.

Armando Alcaraz [19:47]:
"We have to identify them all to get an A grade. If you put an answer that's incorrect, you lose your designation."

The high-pressure environment fosters a culture of excellence, where meticulous attention to detail and collaborative problem-solving are paramount.

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Teamwork and the Future of Forensic Science

Central to the FSC's success is the strong sense of camaraderie among its members. Brian Andreessen and Armando Alcaraz emphasize the importance of teamwork, enthusiasm, and mutual support in tackling the most challenging forensic cases.

Brian Andreessen [21:03]:
"Forensic is still a people thing... it's a team effort."

Looking ahead, the FSC aims to continue its legacy by attracting top-tier scientists and investing in state-of-the-art equipment, ensuring that it remains a global leader in forensic analysis.

Armando Alcaraz [21:24]:
"I want the new generation of scientists to carry that through and continue to work together well and achieve things."

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Conclusion

The Big Ideas Lab’s episode on the Forensic Science Center at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory paints a comprehensive and engaging picture of a world-class forensic institution. Through real-life case studies, expert insights, and a detailed exploration of technological advancements, the episode underscores the crucial role of forensic science in solving crimes, preventing disasters, and saving lives. By maintaining rigorous standards and fostering a collaborative environment, the FSC exemplifies the cutting-edge of forensic innovation—truly shaping tomorrow’s safety and justice today.

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Quotes Highlighted:

• Brian Andreessen [03:44]:
  "It all goes back to graduate school... gas chromatography and mass spectrometry."

• Armando Alcaraz [10:22]:
  "They had an arrangement with one of the mortuaries... always a smoking gun."

• Brian Andreessen [14:53]:
  "You can almost take one fingerprint... see all the chemicals that the person has in their body."

• Armando Alcaraz [16:53]:
  "We don't have sunglasses on during, you know, we're in the laboratory..."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the depth and breadth of the Forensic Science Center (Part I) episode, providing listeners and newcomers alike with a thorough understanding of the FSC's vital contributions to forensic science and national security.

Transcript

[Narrator]

On a routine morning in 1978, a security guard was making his rounds at a college campus in the Midwest. The halls were quiet, mostly empty. Then he noticed a package. No return address on it, just sitting there. He opened it. Not long after, a phone rings at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Usually it's another scientist, a university, maybe someone from the US Department of Energy. But today it's law enforcement. Not about a bomb that might go off, but one that already did. Over the course of nearly two decades, bombs like these appeared in mailrooms, airplane, cargo holds, campus offices. The bomb on the Yale campus today.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Blew up in the computer sciences building.

[Narrator]

They were crude, but somehow also meticulous. And nobody knew why.

[Armando Alcaraz]

So far as I understand, there's been.

[Brian Andreessen]

No credit taken, no motive that's been expressed.

[Narrator]

Shortly after the mail bomb exploded at Yale, a threatening phone call was made to the VA Medical center in West Haven.

[Armando Alcaraz]

About mid morning, we received an anonymous telephone call saying, you are next.

[Narrator]

And in the absence of a suspect or a motive, investigators turned to the only clues they had left. Bits of exploded bomb residue. Dust reported by law enforcement as a unique type of aluminum powder. Materials barely visible to the human eye. Along with traces of another explosive material.

[Brian Andreessen]

And the explosive material was a perchlorate. You mix the two together in a sealed container like a metal pipe, it can make quite an explosion.

[Narrator]

This was just one piece of the puzzle that led to the eventual arrest and conviction of the Unabomber. And a single case in a library of dozens more that the Forensic Science center at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory played a key role in solving. Today we're not chasing a killer. We're chasing a question. How much can a particle of dust tell you? Welcome to the Big Ideas Lab. Your exploration inside Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Hear untold stories, meet boundary pushing pioneers and and get unparalleled access inside the gates. From national security challenges to computing revolutions, discover the innovations that are shaping tomorrow. Today.

[Armando Alcaraz]

We found residue like that on glass shards taken out of.

[Narrator]

If you've watched television in the last 20 years, chances are you have a basic understanding of forensic science.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Looks like galvanized metal.

[Narrator]

TV shows like CSI have brought the concepts of fingerprinting, ballistics and toxicology into the mainstream. But this wasn't always the case. Back in the 1960s, forensics was a virtually unknown form of investigation. Thanks to Brian Andreessen, the founder and former director of the Forensic Science center at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, that would soon change.

[Brian Andreessen]

It all goes back to graduate school. When I was at mit, we were Working with a new technology back in the 60s called gas chromatography and mass spectrometry.

[Narrator]

Those are two different analytical chemistry techniques utilized to identify the components in a material or unknown substance. At the most basic level, it's kind of like using a colander to figure out what vegetables were used in a soup, except instead of potatoes and carrots, they're identifying different compounds in the material. And chromatography and mass spectrometry can analyze nearly any organic material.

[Armando Alcaraz]

That's one small step for man, one.

[Brian Andreessen]

Giant leap for mankind. When the astronauts went to the moon, they brought back moon samples, and they were able to bring them to our lab.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Surface is fine and powdery.

[Brian Andreessen]

I can pick it up loosely with my toe.

[Armando Alcaraz]

The pivot adhere into fine layers, like.

[Brian Andreessen]

Powdered charcoal to the sole and sides of my boots. We analyzed the moon samples for any organic chemicals that were indicative of life, which we didn't find any. But we did find the smell of the O ring that sublimed under a vacuum onto the rocks.

[Narrator]

They brought this discovery to the public, explaining their findings via television broadcast in Boston, Direct from Alexium in New York, in color.

[Armando Alcaraz]

This is the CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite.

[Brian Andreessen]

I said the technique called mass spectrometry is so sensitive, if I had a drop of blood, I could tell you all the chemicals in it.

[Narrator]

The publicity was massive, and it caught the attention of a doctor with a medical mystery on his hands.

[Brian Andreessen]

A physician at Mass General Hospital heard that presentation, and then he said, you know, I have a woman who's overdosed on some unknown drugs. And he called and he said, could you just take a look at her blood and tell us what it is? That day got a tube of blood, extracted it, analyzed it, and it was Darvon. She'd taken a massive amount of Darvon.

[Narrator]

The medication, which was a narcotic pain reliever, could have killed her, but they identified the drug before that happened.

[Brian Andreessen]

So he was able to then give an antidote for the Darvon and treat her. And she was recovered and saved.

[Narrator]

That single analysis set off a huge chain reaction.

[Brian Andreessen]

Little did I know, he went to the American Medical association and gave a talk on the analysis of a blood sample from a patient. And he said it was done quickly and exactly. And he mentioned this to a international meeting. And within the next week, all of a sudden, I started getting calls about forensics from around the world.

[Narrator]

It fueled Brian's work throughout the next two decades.

[Brian Andreessen]

And so that's launched me into doing forensics for identifying materials that people just didn't know what it was, a drug, a toxin, a poison, environmental sample. And I kept doing that in the medical community.

[Narrator]

By the early 90s, demand for forensic analysis was through the roof.

[Brian Andreessen]

I was getting more and more sample requests from around the country, from different intelligence as well as law enforcement organizations. And it just seemed reasonable to try to make a center where everything could be done in one area quickly and securely so that we could turn the results over quickly and not have to worry about going to another building or working with other people.

[Narrator]

So in 1991, Brian spearheaded the formation of the Forensic Science center, or FSC at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.

[Brian Andreessen]

I came to the Lawrence Livermore lab, started doing analysis out there, and then said, we need to have a forensic science center at the Livermore Labs that have all this great equipment, great people. We can make a real mark in forensics around the world.

[Armando Alcaraz]

I was fortunate enough to be able to meet Brian just when he was starting the Forensic Science Center. He goes, hey, would you like to be part of this team to start building this forensic science center? And I said, absolutely.

[Narrator]

That's Armando Alcaraz. He's the international programs lead at the fsc.

[Armando Alcaraz]

My background is gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, similar to what Brian did.

[Narrator]

But Brian and Armando had to expand beyond just blood and chemical analysis. They had to be ready for anything.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Well, in many cases, you really don't know what kind of sample is going to be coming through the door.

[Brian Andreessen]

Sometimes there was nuclear material to look at, sometimes there were drugs, sometimes explosive residues. All of these different samples would come into the new facility, the center.

[Armando Alcaraz]

We also have synthesis chemists on our teams. We may find something. As an analytical chemist, I'll see the compound. I go, you know, this looks kind of strange. It looks kind of like an explosive. And so then I'll show that to our synthetic chemist. And he goes, oh yeah, that's a second precursor to be able to make tnt. So having their knowledge in our team is extremely valuable.

[Narrator]

This array of specialists enabled the team to expand their work.

[Brian Andreessen]

We were doing all sorts of unique analyses. It was just to help domestic and foreign law enforcement to help epa, osha. They were just helping people and they liked it and appreciated it. The FSC started getting a reputation for doing great work in a timely manner and then having the people to back up their results. So it just kept growing as we get more samples and more people knew about us.

[Narrator]

So the operation expanded. What started as a small squad of scientists quickly developed into a world renowned crew of Forensic experts.

[Armando Alcaraz]

We got a call from the Polish police department asking us how exactly did you do the LC work?

[Narrator]

That's liquid chromatography.

[Armando Alcaraz]

And so we explained it, of course. We said, you know, why? What's going on? And they said, well, we had some ambulance drivers that were going to critical automobile accidents where a person was right on the edge of not making it life threatening.

[Narrator]

Car crashes happen every day. But the number of deaths was increasing at an alarming and abnormal rate. Were these accidents truly more severe than normal? Were the paramedics incompetent? Was it just bad luck to find the answer? The FSC helped Poland's police department analyzed samples taken from some of the deceased by providing them details on how the FSC analyzed for pavilion in human tissue. What they found was haunting. The evidence led them back to the paramedics.

[Armando Alcaraz]

They had an arrangement with one of the mortuaries where they would then get a kickback because they thought, this guy's not going to make it, so we'll do that.

[Narrator]

Paramedics were intentionally injecting the critical patients with a muscle relaxer called Pavilon, the same drug used for euthanasia. In the end, authorities attributed numerous deaths to this scheme. But thanks to liquid chromatography mass spectrometry, the EMTs, doctors and morticians involved were stopped and apprehended. And after that, the Forensic Science Center's involvement with international cases continued expanding.

[Brian Andreessen]

We were starting to get more and more involved more and more in international affairs, like looking at chemical weapons, developing techniques to analyze chemical weapons, inorganics for looking at nuclear materials.

[Narrator]

One of these cases took place in 1999 when Bulgarian border guards stopped a suspicious looking vehicle attempting to enter the country from Romania. When authorities searched the car, they found a glass, a glass vial filled with an unidentified powder stored inside a lead.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Container that was actually a multidisciplinary type of sample. So our nuclear folks were able to analyze the actual material and have an idea of what type it was.

[Narrator]

The substance turned out to be highly enriched uranium, which in large quantities is used to create nuclear weapons. But with something new this dangerous, simply identifying the material isn't enough.

[Armando Alcaraz]

It's not just the threat chemical itself, but all the other forensic information. What's the purity of that compound that was there? Maybe this is a unique chemical that can only be present in a certain type of manufacturing process. Why is it there?

[Narrator]

Was the sample reactor grade? Weapons grade? Where did it come from? To answer these questions, the FSC ran more forensic testing on a second substance associated with the Sample, a mysterious yellow wax.

[Brian Andreessen]

Talking about how to characterize a sample and in what order you work up the sample is also important because one technique might destroy it for another technique.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Is there some instrumentation where we maybe don't have to manipulate that sample very much? So one of the things we did with that sample was to look at it with infrared. Then you take a more advanced approach and go, okay, well, let's now dissolve it.

[Narrator]

Dissolving a sample is the first step in gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, a technique used to identify individual molecules contained within a sample. To run this test, Armando and his team first experimented with a number of solvents like acetone or methanol to see what effectively breaks down the sample. After that, it's about heat.

[Armando Alcaraz]

It volatilizes all of those organics, and they go into a gas chromatographic column and separate. So now, instead of having a thousand chemicals all in one bunch, you get each one individually.

[Narrator]

So what secrets did that wax reveal?

[Armando Alcaraz]

It turns out that it had a particular inorganic element that most countries don't use anymore. There was also paper in that, and that also pointed to a tree pulp that was in a certain region in Bulgaria.

[Narrator]

This information, gathered from examination of everything associated with the sample, was vital to authorities and their attempts to crack down on nuclear smuggling. And that was back in 1999. Forensic techniques have advanced so greatly in the last 25 years that now a single fingerprint can change the course of an investigation.

[Brian Andreessen]

When I was early in the career, trace analysis was like a few hundred micrograms, which is like a few hundred grains of salt. Nowadays we look at nanograms, which is a billionth of a gram.

[Narrator]

That's about the weight of the average single human cell. But the equipment at the FSC can run analysis on even smaller samples, down to pico, or femtograms. That's one quadrillionth the weight of a paperclip.

[Brian Andreessen]

It's ultra trace analysis.

[Narrator]

This precision is what allows for examination of such small amounts of evidence.

[Brian Andreessen]

You can almost take one fingerprint, take the oil off a fingerprint, and see all the chemicals that the person has in their body.

[Armando Alcaraz]

Now you look for the other part of the fingerprint. Who's the culprit? Do they have things in their garage where they're making it?

[Narrator]

That trace evidence could be enough to narrow in on a suspect. If this was an episode of television, that might be the end of the story. The cops come in, arrest the bad guy. The end. But in real life, the evidence still has to hold up in court.

[Brian Andreessen]

That's a lot of detail that most people don't realize. They just think you take a sample, analyze it, and that's it. But no, you've got to be absolutely sure, Especially if you go to court and you get cross examined. That's a really important thing. To have all the data correct in your mind as well as on paper, it has to be written up. A judge looks at what you've written, and they may even give it to someone else and challenge your findings to make sure that what you put down is correct.

[Narrator]

It's not enough to only solve a mystery. The solution has to be airtight for a judge and jury.

[Armando Alcaraz]

With our current quality control system, we won't generate a report unless we can verify. So this way there's no doubt this evidence is solid.

[Narrator]

Ensuring that accuracy highlights the difference between television and real life.

[Brian Andreessen]

They seem to come to a conclusion in the case in about 30 minutes, minus commercials. And it takes us a lot longer to do that kind of activity. It takes sometimes days and days to do these analyses. And most people don't realize that a lot of it is just being very thorough and analyzing samples correctly and doing it not just once, but doing it multiple times to make sure that the samples are just perfectly characterized. So when you write it up and report it, it's very accurate.

[Narrator]

So is the forensic science work at the FSC anything like TV1?

[Armando Alcaraz]

We don't have sunglasses on during, you know, we're in the laboratory and we don't wear all the fancy clothes either.

[Narrator]

But Brian, Armando and the rest of the crew share one thing in common with their fictional counterparts. The satisfaction of solving a crime that puts away a criminal. And sometimes there's an adrenaline rush that comes from cracking cases that are just plain bizarre.

[Brian Andreessen]

People like the fact it's a challenge. It's a puzzle. You're trying to solve these unknown cases, you're looking for that needle.

[Narrator]

One such puzzle revolved around what started as a simple hospital visit. A woman named Gloria Ramirez was battling late stage cervical cancer when she checked into the emergency room. Shortly after her arrival, a number of hospital staff began experiencing strange symptoms. Some just had shortness of breath. Others developed muscle spasms. A few even fainted, and five required serious intensive care. What was it about this woman? The nurses and doctors treating her said her skin seemed oily and that her breath smelled like garlic. Did she have a virus or strange alien disease that was infecting others? Was there a curse following her?

[Brian Andreessen]

So we got some of the samples brought it back to the lab and analyzed it and saw what was going on.

[Narrator]

The answer was not science fiction or magic. It was a treatment she had used to lessen the pain of her metastasized cancer.

[Brian Andreessen]

She was taking dmso. Dimethyl sulfoxide. You rub it on your skin and the DMSO immediately dissolves into the skin. But it carries anything that's mixed with it through the skin also, then into the bloodstream.

[Narrator]

She was also taking codeine, a narcotic painkiller.

[Brian Andreessen]

What happens again? When the body sees things like dimethyl sulfoxide, it immediately wants to detoxify it. It would then add an oxygen to it, make dimethyl sulfone, and then it can oxidize it again and make dimethyl sulfate, which is a very volatile, toxic chemical. It can cause all sorts of nausea, eye watering, just in general. It's a toxin. And it came into the emergency room of the hospital.

[Narrator]

So it wasn't a case of mass hysteria among the hospital staff, like some people thought, it was a simple drug interaction. Thankfully, none of the hospital staff died from the exposure. The FSC's dedication and impressive level of analysis in this case is a great example of what makes their team a world leader in forensics. But they don't simply rest on their laurels. They maintain their reputation by yearly evaluations and a constant dedication to quality work.

[Armando Alcaraz]

We're currently going through testing every year to verify we are qualified to do this. And these tests that they provide us are complex. They could be anything from a soil sample to even a piece of metal that has these chemicals on there. And we have to identify them all to be able to get an A grade. The folks who prepare these samples, they all think of things that they've come across across to make things tricky. And they'll put them in the tests. You always have to be on top of it, because in the samples that they give us, these proficiency tests, they try to make them as realistic as possible. Because when you think about it, people who did this may want to cover it up. And they're going to put diesel fuel on top of it. Bleach. But there's always a smoking gun. You only have 15 days to analyze a set of six samples. And so we're here to day and night analyzing these samples to make sure we got the answer right. And if you put an answer that's incorrect, you lose your designation.

[Narrator]

That's a lot of pressure. But the challenge and the difficulty is exactly what makes it thrilling. And when you're working alongside other passionate, committed scientists that energy just compounds.

[Brian Andreessen]

Forensic is still a people thing. And you want to have them enthusiastic and supporting each other and being a team effort. Because again, that's what we were really found on, being that team effort.

[Armando Alcaraz]

It's really that camaraderie, that secret sauce that's been keeping the Forensic Science center going for years now.

[Brian Andreessen]

In the future, what I think will keep it going is the best equipment and the best people in the world.

[Armando Alcaraz]

That's the beauty of it. You're part of a bigger team, and the people who join the Forensic Science center see this and they go, you know what? I want to be part of this. I'm hoping that the new generation of scientists come on board, that they carry that through and continue to work together well and achieve things.

[Narrator]

It may not be exactly like television. You may not wear sunglasses inside the laboratory, but you would solve crimes, prevent disasters, and save lives. The Forensic Science center is waiting. Will you answer the call? Thank you for tuning in to Big Ideas Lab. If you loved what you heard, please let us know by leaving a rating and review. And if you haven't already, don't forget to hit the Follow or Subscribe button in your podcast app to keep up with our latest video episode. Thanks for listening.