Podcast Summary

Podcast: Big Take
Episode: Trump Promised Revenge. He’s Using the DOJ to Make It Happen
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Sarah Holder (with reporting/contributions from Nancy Cook and Chris Strome, Bloomberg)

Main Theme

This episode investigates how, during his second term, President Donald Trump has intensified and operationalized his campaign promise of “retribution,” by mobilizing the Department of Justice (DOJ) to pursue former officials, critics, and political enemies. Journalists Nancy Cook and Chris Strome detail the breakdown of long-standing norms separating the White House from the DOJ and explore the consequences and precedent this could set for American democracy and governance.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. From Retribution Rhetoric to Action

• Campaign Promise Becomes Policy:
  Trump's theme of retribution, once dismissed as mere campaign rhetoric, is now central to his second-term agenda.
  • [00:24] Trump: "For those who have been wronged and betrayed. I am your retribution. I am your retribution."
• Early Evidence:
  The administration has used federal levers—targeting law firms, individuals, and pulling security clearances—against perceived enemies.
  • [02:35] Nancy Cook: "Unlike the first term, this time they have really approached the retribution campaign with, with real military style precision, a lot of savviness about how to use the levers of the federal government."

2. Weaponization of the DOJ

• Notable Prosecutions:
  The DOJ under Trump has indicted high-profile figures, including former FBI Director James Comey, former National Security Adviser John Bolton, and New York Attorney General Letitia James.
  • [03:11] Sarah Holder: “The Department of Justice has indicted former FBI Director James Comey.”
• Attorney General Pam Bondi's Role:
  Despite claiming at her confirmation hearing there would be "no enemies list," Bondi is enforcing a list aligned with Trump’s personal grievances.
  • [03:33] Chris Strome: "Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing...she wasn't going to have an enemies list...she has been given Trump's enemies list."

3. Breakdown of Institutional Norms

• Collapse of DOJ Independence:
  Traditionally, norms and some laws have maintained DOJ independence. Trump’s administration has systematically dismantled those.
  • [06:11] Chris Strome: "Actually [rules] don't really exist. What Trump has exposed is that we've been relying on a series of norms and traditions..."
• Visual Signals:
  AG Bondi’s frequent, public presence in the Oval Office is a visible sign of the DOJ’s alignment with Trump, contrasting prior administrations.
  • [07:23] Nancy Cook: "Pam Bondi is over there, often standing behind Trump as he makes pronouncements."

4. Historical Parallels and Congressional Inaction

• After Watergate vs. Now:
  Unlike the post-Nixon era, there’s been little Congressional pushback now—even as Trump tears down previous reforms.
  • [08:11] Chris Strome: "...those safeguards have just been knocked down. Trump fired a bunch of inspector generals..."
• Why There’s No Oversight:
  With Republicans controlling Congress and little will for oversight, internal resistance is minor and often ineffective.
  • [14:39] Chris Strome: "Congress has largely been absent...Democrats don't have any power."

5. Specific Cases: Comey and Letitia James

• Background and Charges:
  • Comey: Indicted on charges of false statements and obstruction regarding 2020 testimony.
    • [11:09] Chris Strome: “That was the original sin.”
  • Letitia James: Charged after winning a 2022 civil fraud case against Trump.
• Legal Pushback:
  Comey and James are fighting the charges, arguing selective and vindictive prosecution—rarely successful motions, but potentially relevant here.
  • [13:27] Chris Strome: "Comey has already filed a motion to say that the indictment...should be dismissed because it represents a vindictive and selective prosecution."

6. Long-Term Impact and Future Precedent

• Setting a Dangerous Example:
  Trump’s actions set a precedent that future presidents could follow, threatening further politicization of justice.
  • [15:55] Chris Strome: "He's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward can use."
• Self-Censorship and Chill Effect:
  Many officials and lawyers are newly cautious, with fewer critics willing to speak out publicly.
  • [16:50] Nancy Cook: "If you speak out, there is a huge risk that we'll go after you...you just keep it to yourself."

7. The “Process is the Punishment”

• Indictments as Intimidation:
  It's not just about convictions—the process of investigation, indictment, and legal hassle is itself punitive.
  • [15:34] Chris Strome: "For Trump and his allies, it's not even a matter of getting a conviction. It's the process of indicting these individuals..."
  • [16:42] Nancy Cook: "Not just the process is the punishment, but also the message that it sends to other people."

8. What’s Next?

• More Indictments Likely:
  Trump implies further DOJ actions are coming, with a grand jury expected to target more officials connected to previous investigations into Trump.
  • [17:18] Trump: "It's not a list, but I think there'll be others."
• Continued Uncertainty:
  The scale and endpoints of Trump's DOJ interventions remain unclear—"we’re only in year one."
  • [18:03] Nancy Cook: "So it's very unclear to me what does the Justice Department look like at the end of this."

Notable Quotes

• Trump, on retribution:
  [00:24] “For those who have been wronged and betrayed. I am your retribution. I am your retribution.”
• Chris Strome, on norms:
  [06:11] “What Trump has exposed is that we've been relying on a series of norms and traditions... Trump has obliterated that.”
• Nancy Cook, on AG Bondi’s visibility:
  [07:23] “Pam Bondi is over there, often standing behind Trump as he makes pronouncements.”
• Chris Strome, on precedent:
  [15:55] “He's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward can use.”
• Nancy Cook, on chilling dissent:
  [16:50] “If you speak out, there is a huge risk that we'll go after you... you just keep it to yourself.”
• Trump, on the future:
  [17:18] “It's not a list, but I think there'll be others.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• Retribution Theme & Policy Shift: [00:24] – [02:35]
• DOJ as a tool for Trump: [03:11] – [03:50]
• Collapse of Norms & DOJ Independence: [06:05] – [07:59]
• Historical Context/Nixon Parallel: [08:11] – [09:09]
• Specific Indictments – Comey & James: [10:23] – [13:14]
• Legal Defense and Chilling Effects: [13:27] – [16:50]
• Precedent and What's Next: [15:34] – [18:03]

Summary

The episode offers a frank and sobering account of how President Trump’s second term has reshaped the relationship between the presidency and the DOJ—transforming the department into a direct instrument of presidential will and personal agenda. With rare bipartisan and institutional checks remaining, the precedent set may affect governance and justice in the U.S. for years to come. Trump’s purported quest for “justice”—seen by critics as revenge—has begun to reshape not only the nation’s legal landscape but the very functioning of democracy.