What if the Best Retirement is No Retirement at All?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Big Take – “What if the Best Retirement is No Retirement at All?”

Host: Stacey Vanek Smith (in for Sara Holder & David Gura)
Guests: David Lloyd (Boom Radio), Holland Azeri (Head of the Longevity Economy Initiative, World Economic Forum)
Date: June 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the growing phenomenon of “unretirement”—older adults either delaying retirement or returning to the workforce. Stacey Vanek Smith and her guests examine the reasons behind this trend, the challenges older workers face, and creative solutions—both from individuals and organizations—to harness the experience and talents of an aging workforce.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Retirement: David Lloyd’s Story

[01:53–03:37]

• David Lloyd, a lifelong radio professional, found himself semi-retired at 60—consulting and writing as traditional radio roles became scarcer for his age group.
• He perceived increasing ageism in broadcasting, with older presenters replaced by younger talent and programming targeting younger audiences.
• During the pandemic, David conceived Boom Radio, a station “for people our age, by people our age” ([02:43]), reclaiming the term “boomer.”
• Quote:

  “I'm fitter. I'm better at my job than I was when I was 30. Why on earth should I? Why would I want to sit around and do nothing?”
  – David Lloyd [01:53]

• Boom Radio employs decades-experienced presenters who want to keep working, representing a demographic seeking purpose beyond traditional retirement.
• Quote:

  “This is the radio station we've actually spent our whole lives getting ready to run. So I'm having an absolute ball.”
  – David Lloyd [03:28]

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2. The Changing Social and Economic Context of Retirement

[03:37–05:28]

• Stacey Vanek Smith outlines how retirement at 65 became standard, tracing the roots to 19th-century Germany under Otto von Bismarck, where life expectancy was only about 40.
• Holland Azeri notes that today's retirement systems haven’t kept pace with rising longevity and evolving job types; modern jobs are less physically taxing and people live much longer.
• In the 1930s, when Social Security was set up in the U.S., average lifespan was about 60; now it's closer to 80.

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3. Why People ‘Unretire’

[05:28–07:29]

• Main Reasons for Returning to Work:
  1. Financial necessity: Many realize savings and social security are insufficient for a lengthy retirement.
     • “Some people need to work longer because they just didn't save enough. Some people want to work longer because that is where they find their purpose and their community.” – Holland Azeri [05:28]
  2. Personal Fulfillment: Work provides purpose, community, and daily structure; a 25-year retirement can feel daunting without meaningful engagement.
• Gen Z and millennials already expect to spend over 15 years retired, yet 63% of U.S. adults worry about needing to unretire ([06:24]).

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4. Ageism and Barriers to Unretirement

[07:29–09:39]

• Ageism is a major obstacle: Employers often assume older workers lack tech skills, have health issues, or work “too slowly.”
  • Resume Builder found a third of hiring managers had concerns about hiring seniors ([08:12]).
• Hiring Disparities:
  • Job seekers over 65 take about 10 weeks longer to find work than young applicants.
  • In the UK, 30% of over-50s take a year or more to find jobs, compared to 20% of 18- to 24-year-olds.
• David Lloyd:

  “Society has said, yes, we've had enough of you now... can you go away and just sit quietly?”
  – David Lloyd [08:57]

• Azeri:

  “The most creative teams were the ones that were multi-generational.”
  – Holland Azeri [07:49]

• Advantages of Older Workers: Stability, unflappability under crisis, deep experience handling a range of scenarios.
  • “We’re still very agile, able... just as you’re at that stage of life, nobody wants to employ you.” – David Lloyd [09:39]

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5. Boom Radio: A Case Study in Unretirement

[13:06–15:14]

• Conception and Launch:
  • The idea came to David Lloyd during a pandemic walk in 2020. He looped in his colleague Phil Riley, who completed the business case.
  • The station’s talent pool: Retired/semi-retired presenters, invited to join on low pay and the promise of impact.
  • Operates with low overhead, presenters broadcast from home.
  • Tone: Upbeat and genuine, tackling age-related humor without letting it define the presenters.
• Immediate Impact:
  • Rapidly secured national transmission and attracted advertisers geared to older adults.
  • Reached over 1 million monthly listeners within five years.
• Human Connection:
  • Listeners credit Boom Radio with improving their day-to-day lives and reducing loneliness.
  • “I mean, we get emails, letters as well that make us cry every day… you have changed my life… there was just an empty house… now I put you on and I feel there's some company there.” – David Lloyd [14:53]
  • Emotional fulfillment for presenters, many experiencing the joy of radio as they did in youth.

    “I'm in my back bedroom again messing about with radio just as when I was 16, and it's beautiful.”
    – David Lloyd [15:14]

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6. Broader Solutions for Employing Older Workers

[15:23–17:41]

• Corporate Programs:
  • CVS Health: Targets over-50s for hard-to-fill pharmacy roles.
  • Amazon & Goldman Sachs: “Returnship” programs for those long out of the workforce.
  • Phased Retirement: Allows seasoned employees to reduce workload or focus on mentorship, retaining institutional knowledge.
  • Quote:

    “People really suffer a bit when they lose that institutional knowledge. So... phased retirement programs work.”
    – Holland Azeri [15:57]

• Benefits of Age Diversity:
  • Diversity in age brings creativity and stability to workplaces.
  • Countries like Singapore are proactive, with government-backed reskilling credits at age 40 (“Skills Future” program) to help adults stay relevant ([17:09]).

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7. Upending Stereotypes of Aging

[17:57–19:03]

• Cognitive Resilience:
  • IMF data: A 70-year-old in 2022 matches the cognitive function of a 53-year-old in 2000, showing that the workforce is healthier and sharper than before ([18:04]).
  • “They say 70 is the new 50.” – Holland Azeri [18:32]
• Retirement Is No Longer a Universal Model:
  • One-size-fits-all retirement at 65 is outdated; flexibility and innovation in work are increasingly necessary.
  • “Just because we’ve been doing something the same way… doesn’t mean we should continue… I think it’s time to innovate.” – Holland Azeri [18:45]

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8. Fulfillment and Legacy

[19:03–19:43]

• David Lloyd expresses that pursuing passion projects in later life can bring deep satisfaction and a sense of having lived fully.
  • “It is exhausting… But the levels of fulfillment are… huge. It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I've ever done in my whole life. It means that if I die tomorrow, I've done it, you know.” – David Lloyd [19:03]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I'm fitter. I'm better at my job than I was when I was 30. Why on earth should I? Why would I want to sit around and do nothing?”
  – David Lloyd [01:53]
• “We’re probably at the peak of our powers… we can do anything. Just as you’re at that stage, nobody wants to employ you.”
  – David Lloyd [09:39]
• “The most creative teams were the ones that were multi-generational.”
  – Holland Azeri [07:49]
• “I think it’s time to maybe innovate and come up with new ideas… for a hundred year life and what that could look like.”
  – Holland Azeri [18:45]
• "70 is the new 50."
  – Holland Azeri [18:32]
• “It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I've ever done in my whole life. It means that if I die tomorrow, I've done it, you know.”
  – David Lloyd [19:03]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:53] – David Lloyd on resisting retirement
• [03:37] – Introduction to global and historical retirement context
• [05:28] – Holland Azeri on rising longevity and outmoded retirement structures
• [07:29] – Data and stories on unretirement rates and obstacles
• [09:39] – David and Holland on the unique qualities of older workers
• [13:06] – The genesis and mission of Boom Radio
• [14:53] – Human impact and audience response to Boom Radio
• [15:23] – Corporate solutions: returnships and phased retirement
• [17:09] – Singapore’s reskilling initiative
• [18:04] – IMF data: Cognitive aging and workforce capability
• [19:03] – Fulfillment and legacy in later-life work

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Episode Takeaway

Retirement is no longer a monolithic milestone—it’s fluid, and many find greater meaning and necessity in continuing to work. Aging workers bring irreplaceable value, and societies and organizations that embrace their talents, support reskilling, and create flexible pathways will thrive in a world where 70 really can be the new 50.

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Transcript

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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News

[David Lloyd]

I'm fitter. I'm better at my job than I was when I was 30. Why on earth should I? Why would I want to sit around and do nothing?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David Lloyd spent his career working in commercial radio, first as a presenter and eventually running stations in places like Manchester, London and Birmingham. But by the time he was approaching 60, he found himself and his peers in what he calls semiretirement.

[David Lloyd]

We were doing bits of consulting and writing, and we're on that sort of drift towards. Towards, you know, from being busy every day to doing nothing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David wasn't ready to retire, but work was starting to dry up. He was also noticing a shift as a radio listener. More and more of his favorite presenters were getting replaced by younger talent, and the stations were playing music that wasn't really tailored to him and people from his generation.

[Holland Azeri]

So.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So during the pandemic, he had an

[David Lloyd]

idea for a radio station for People our age, we help you fall in

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

love with radio all over again.

[David Lloyd]

Boom radio.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's right.

[David Lloyd]

Boom radio after baby boomers. Because we know that boomer has become a bit of an insult. Let's reclaim it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It wasn't just for people David's age. It was made by them, too. The station employs people who have decades of experience under their belts and desire to keep working, but who might have limited opportunities. David and his radio peers are part of a growing segment of the global population that wants to continue working later in life or who are returning to the workforce after years away from it.

[David Lloyd]

This is the radio station we've actually spent our whole lives getting ready to run. It really is. So I'm having an absolute ball.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I'm Stacey Vanek Smith in for Sara Holder and David Gura. And this is the big take from Bloomberg News today on the show. Why are so many workers delaying retirement or re entering the workforce? What challenges does that pose for them and for the labor market? And what one group of radio lovers did to take matters into their own hands in the US entering your 60s marks the start of a new chapter, senior citizenship. You become eligible for things like Medicare and reduced transit fares. You can start claiming Social Security funds and the expectation is you're going to retire soon, if you haven't already. It's an idea that dates back centuries to late 1800s Germany.

[Holland Azeri]

I think it was Otto von Bismarck who created the Social Security program back in Germany when almost no one would

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

draw down on it.

[Corporate Sponsor Representative]

Right?

[Holland Azeri]

That's right. That's part of what we're trying to have a conversation about is that system no longer really functions the way it should today because that was a system created when people weren't living as long. And the jobs were quite different back then. They were more physical and agrarian and manufacturing kind of jobs. So it was, it was a different work style.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Holland Azeri is the head of the Longevity Economy initiative at the World Economic Forum.

[Holland Azeri]

People are living longer lives than ever before. However, our retirement systems, our pension systems didn't really change to catch up with that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We still have that mid-60s retirement standard, even though when it was established back in 1800s, Germany, the average German only lived until about 40. And when the US established its Social Security system in the 1930s, the average lifespan was about 60. Today, American life expectancy is nearly 80.

[Holland Azeri]

People are living so much longer that they could work longer. Now, we're not saying people should work longer, but what we have found is some people need to work longer because they just didn't save enough. And between their savings and Social Security, it's not enough to live off of. Some people want to work longer because that is where they find their purpose and their community. And they're not quite ready to let that go. And when you're talking about retirement going from five years to 25 years, that's a long time to try to find something to keep yourself busy and happy.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And that has led to the rise of so called unretirement, basically returning to the workforce after you retire.

[Holland Azeri]

So there are two main reasons why people unretire. One is definitely financial. They retire and they realize they don't have enough money saved up to live the kind of life that they want to live.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

According to U.S. bank's 2025 Wealth Report, which surveyed 5,000American adults, three quarters of Gen Z and millennials expect to spend more than 15 years retired. And 63% of adults worry they'll need to un retire to make ends meet. Pension programs are largely a thing of the past. And the trustees who manage the Social Security program announced that they're expecting the fund to run out of money in 2032. After that point, the program would still take in payroll taxes, but those revenues would only cover about 78% of scheduled benefits. Unless, of course, Congress acts. American retirees just do not have the security they once had.

[Holland Azeri]

But the other reason people unretire is that sense of community and purpose that they want to be back in with a group, that they want to feel like they're giving back, that they're part of a community for whatever reason. Work is that community. For a lot of us here in the United States, that didn't used to be the case back in the 50s and 60s, but today it is. That's where we get our friends, our community. And so people are looking for that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

According to a survey from the aarp, the percentage of retirees who unretire or decide to go back to work is still pretty low. It hovered around 7% this winter, but that is up a full percent from just a few months prior. Even if that number is slowly on the rise, it's not so easy to reenter the workforce as an older person.

[Holland Azeri]

I think the biggest challenge, to be honest, Stacey, is ageism and people thinking that they don't understand the technology, they won't want to learn new things. There's this still misguided notion that younger employees and older employees don't get along, that there's this generational rift. We did a report actually with the OECD and AARP several years ago that showed that the most creative teams were the ones that were multi generational.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The job seeker site Resume Builder surveyed 1,000 hiring managers and a third of them said they had concerns about hiring seniors. When asked why 64% of them cited potential health issues, nearly half pointed to seniors lack of experience with technology and around 40% said seniors work too slowly. That bias shows. In 2024, Bureau of Labor Statistics data showed that it took job seekers who were over 65 about 10 weeks longer to find a job compared with people in their early twent. In the uk where David Lloyd from Boom Radio lives, It took about 20% of unemployed 18 to 24 year olds over a year to find a job compared to 30% of over 50 year olds.

[David Lloyd]

Society has said, yes, we've had enough of you now you know, can you go away and just sit quietly?

[Holland Azeri]

I think people think that the best employees are within a certain age frame, but there's all sorts of different ages that an employee could benefit a company.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I feel like there's a lot of emphasis right now on AI and people who are tech savvy and can come in and are comfortable with technology and all of these things. Like what are some of the advantages that an older worker might bring?

[Holland Azeri]

I think one of them is probably stability. Being a little more unflappable. I think they can manage crises a bit more seamlessly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And that unflappability, that battle tested experience, it's something David says he's proud of when he looks at his generation.

[David Lloyd]

We felt we're probably at the peak of our powers. I mean, you know, we're still very agile, able, we can do anything. We've learned all the things that can possibly go wrong. And just as you're at that stage of life, nobody wants to employ you. Another anniversary oldie. Paul McCartney Stevie Wonder Ebony and Ivory Produced by George Martin after the break,

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

how David's dream of a radio station run by unretired workers panned out and what creative solutions other countries and companies have developed to address this.

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[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The idea for Boom Radio came to David Lloyd on an evening walk in 2020 at the height of the COVID pandemic. He was going to start his own radio station, employ other retired or semi retired presenters and appeal to other boomer listeners.

[David Lloyd]

We also thought that if we can do it from our own homes, the overheads of running the radio station can be pretty low and therefore we can create hopefully a business which can sustain itself.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David Emailed an old colleague of his, Phil Riley, and laid out his vision for the station.

[David Lloyd]

He sent as he would a spreadsheet back, saying, I've done the figures, because that's the sort of person he is and you need other people. He said, I've done the figures. I think this could work. Let's call it Boom Radio.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David convinced some private investors to back him, drew money out of his pension and then started calling up potential on air talent.

[David Lloyd]

And I said, look, come with us, we'll pay you, but not very much at the outset. Come with us on the journey and if it goes well. And they all said yes.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And just like that, Boom Radio was born.

[David Lloyd]

And it's Friday morning here on Boom Radio. Mind you, when you get to a certain age, Fridays aren't that much different to Mondays. We're an upbeat radio station. People turn us on to be cheered up. That's why they come to us. But don't be afraid to let out those little things that people our age talk about so they will talk about their hearing aid falling out. But just like people our age in real life, that you can talk about those things without those things defining you.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The response was immediate. Boom Radio went from a digital broadcast to securing a national transmission. Within weeks of hitting the airwaves, they brought in advertisers who wanted to capture their demographic cruises, insurance, an easy to use smartphone.

[David Lloyd]

It's a lot of very fitting products.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Today, five years in, the station has more than a million monthly listeners.

[David Lloyd]

I've never felt anything like it. I mean, we get emails, letters as well that make us cry every day. You know when they say, you have changed my life, you know, things like, my husband has died, there was just an empty house. Now I put you on and I feel there's some company there.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And there's the impact on the station's three dozen presenters, including David.

[David Lloyd]

The beautiful cyclical thing. I'm in my back bedroom again messing about with radio just as when I was 16, and it's beautiful.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Boom Radio is a more grassroots example of a company putting its emphasis on older workers. But there are some companies that have their own initiatives to attract and retain older employees. CVS Health has a program that recruits workers over 50 for tough to fill pharmacy positions. And Amazon and Goldman Sachs both have returnship programs which recruit and train people who've been out of the workforce for a significant stretch. Other companies offer phased retirement programs that allow older workers to keep their jobs but work fewer days a week or take on more of a mentorship role.

[Holland Azeri]

I think people really suffer a bit when they lose that institutional knowledge. So I think that's part of the reason why phased retirement programs work, because you can keep some of that knowledge still and help everyone else benefit from it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Hala Nazeri at the World Economic Forum.

[Holland Azeri]

I think the other benefit is, I think a more diverse workforce, whether that's ages or gender or anything else, is a more interesting and creative workforce. And so I really think it benefits everyone if you have a diversity of voices.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I mean, you've, you've looked at issues of longevity and work all over the world. Do we see any differences between the US and people looking at these issues in the rest of the world?

[Holland Azeri]

So many advanced countries in the rest of the world have longer lifespans than we do. That's one thing I'll say.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, interesting.

[Holland Azeri]

Some have more sustainable pension systems than we do, which also changes things a bit. Some have mandatory retirement ages, free health care. Free health care is a huge part of it. So it's hard to look at longevity with one lens globally because every country has kind of a different advantage or disadvantage. I can tell you about the countries that I think are doing it right, and one of those is Singapore.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, okay. What's Singapore doing?

[Holland Azeri]

They definitely have an aging population. And what they're specifically looking at is helping their population upskill and reskill in a way that nobody else is doing. So they have this program called Skills Future, where at midlife, which they say is 40, which I think might be older going forward, but at 40 you get money to once again reskill or upskill. So if that's the point that you're thinking, maybe this isn't what I want to do, then the government gives you the this money to try to get a new skill or focus on a new thing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So you could pivot or be like, you know, for my current job, it'd be really useful if I knew Python.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly. So the government works with the citizens to create these opportunities for them to have that at their disposal.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Antala says there's data that pushes against the idea that an older workforce isn't as capable as a younger 1.

[Holland Azeri]

The IMF released a report last year that said that somebody that was aged 70 in 2022 has the same cognitive function as the average 53 year old in 2000. We are healthier, we're taking better care of our bodies, we're focusing on brain health, and I think that's paying off in how our entire body ages, including our cognitive and brain abilities.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So people are really more able to work much later into life than they would have been otherwise.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly. They say 70 is the new 50.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

What it comes down to is this retirement is not a one size fits all model anymore and it's certainly not the natural next step the day you turn 65.

[Holland Azeri]

Just because we've been doing something the same way for the last hundred years doesn't mean we should continue doing it that way. I think it's time to maybe innovate and come up with new ideas and solutions of how we want to live what what we call a hundred year life and what that could look like.

[David Lloyd]

Friday we're going to be seeing a doctor and on Saturday we'll get our eyes tested. We know what life's like when you get to our age, but that doesn't define you, what defines you, who you are and the fun you can have. Billy Joel it's still rock and roll to me. Good morning, I'm David Lloyd. This is Boom Radio uk. Thank you for joining us this morning. It is seven days a week. It is exhausting. There are times when I could scream, but the levels of fulfillment are are just huge. It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I've ever done in my whole life. It means that if I die tomorrow, I've done it, you know.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Stacey Vanek Smith in for Sarah Holder and David Gura. To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access to all of bloomberg.com, subscribe [e-mail] podcastoffer if you like this episode, make sure to follow and review the Big Take wherever you listen to your podcasts. It helps people find the show. Thank you for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

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