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Apple’s Siri Embarrassment, Microsoft’s OpenAI Dilemma, Will AI Take Our Jobs?

Big Technology Podcast

Fri Mar 07 2025

Summary

Big Technology Podcast: Apple’s Siri Embarrassment, Microsoft’s OpenAI Dilemma, Will AI Take Our Jobs?

Release Date: March 7, 2025
Hosts: Rufus Griscom & Ranjan Roy

Introduction

In this episode of the Big Technology Podcast, hosts Rufus Griscom and Ranjan Roy delve deep into three pivotal topics shaping the tech landscape in early 2025:

Apple’s Struggles with Siri
Microsoft’s Evolving Relationship with OpenAI
The Impact of AI on Employment

Their conversation is enriched with insights, industry analysis, and personal reflections, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of these critical issues.

1. Apple’s Siri: From Promise to Embarrassment

[00:00 - 05:00]
Rufus Griscom opens the discussion by referencing a critical report from renowned journalist Mark Gurman, highlighting Apple's faltering efforts with Siri. Gurman's analysis suggests that Apple's AI ambitions are reaching a "make or break" point, painting a bleak picture of Siri's current performance.

Rufus Griscom: "We've been talking about on the show that Siri is an absolute embarrassment. It's clear that Gurman is telling us, and I think we can all see with our own eyes, Siri is not meeting expectations."

[05:00 - 12:00]
Ranjan Roy echoes Rufus's concerns, emphasizing that Apple's latest AI-infused Siri update has failed to deliver the promised enhancements. The hosts discuss the dual-brain architecture of Siri, which separates legacy commands from advanced queries, and the upcoming overhaul planned for iOS 19.

Ranjan Roy: "I think the biggest difference I've seen is the summary notifications now are italicized and before they were not. It takes courage."

[12:00 - 21:00]
The conversation shifts to Apple's corporate culture, with Rufus suggesting that internal silos and a lack of cross-departmental communication are hindering Siri's development. They also touch upon leadership issues, referencing potential changes in Apple's AI leadership as hinted by Gurman's report.

Rufus Griscom: "There must be a cultural problem. If you're Apple and you have the ability to legitimately attract the best and the brightest in Silicon Valley, and you fall behind with Siri, your organization is messed up."

2. Microsoft and OpenAI: Strained Partnership Amidst Ambition

[32:34 - 43:00]
Transitioning to Microsoft, Rufus discusses a recent Bloomberg report detailing tensions between Microsoft and OpenAI. Mustafa Suleiman, CEO of Microsoft's AI division, was reportedly frustrated with OpenAI's lack of transparency regarding their model's "chain of thought" processes during a crucial meeting.

Rufus Griscom: "Suleiman cut the call short. This is a big story to the information."

[43:00 - 47:00]
Ranjan analyzes the implications of Microsoft's $13 billion investment in OpenAI, questioning the sustainability and future of their partnership. He highlights Microsoft's strategic pivot towards developing its own AI models, referred to internally as "Mai," which are nearing parity with OpenAI's offerings.

Ranjan Roy: "It has to the Microsoft OpenAI word. I think six months from now we're no longer going to be talking about their relationship because it makes less and less sense every day."

[47:00 - 51:00]
The hosts explore the broader industry trend of "AI wrappers"—applications built atop commoditized models from leading AI developers. They discuss how startups are leveraging these models to create specialized tools, bypassing the need for proprietary AI development.

Rufus Griscom: "The wrapper is built on top of them. But you make a good point that it's customized, it's built for a certain user, and over time they're just going to branch off and be their own thing."

3. Will AI Take Our Jobs? Exploring the Future of Work

[51:02 - 57:00]
Rufus shares his personal experiences with AI, describing how tools like Claude have transformed tasks such as financial planning and game development. He reflects on the dual nature of AI as both a tool that can enhance productivity and a potential disruptor in the job market.

Rufus Griscom: "I'm starting to see this stuff, be able to do things that I just never dreamed possible... The capabilities are getting crazy."

[57:00 - 59:00]
Ranjan adds to the discussion by citing examples of AI's positive impact in education, such as creating tailored learning experiences for children. However, he remains cautious about the broader societal implications, acknowledging the uncertainty surrounding AI's long-term effects on employment.

Ranjan Roy: "We have no idea how this turns out. If people know how to leverage this technology and companies can do a lot more with a lot less, it's clear. But what that looks like across society and at scale is a tough one."

Notable Quotes

Rufus Griscom [02:00]: "There's gotta be something rotten within Apple."
Ranjan Roy [14:24]: "Apple has a financial cushion that allows them to look the other way."
Rufus Griscom [26:54]: "Apple is still operating in a world where so much of this innovation is not proprietary."
Ranjan Roy [54:08]: "It might lead to smaller companies doing what bigger companies do, but with fewer people."
Rufus Griscom [56:25]: "The capabilities of AI are getting crazy."

Conclusion

The episode paints a compelling picture of the current state of AI in the tech industry. Apple's struggles with Siri underscore the challenges even the biggest players face in keeping up with rapid AI advancements. Meanwhile, Microsoft's strained relationship with OpenAI highlights the complexities of strategic partnerships in an evolving landscape. Lastly, the discussion on AI's impact on jobs presents a nuanced view, acknowledging both the potential for increased productivity and the uncertainties surrounding employment.

Rufus and Ranjan leave listeners contemplating the delicate balance between technological innovation and its societal implications, emphasizing the need for adaptability and forward-thinking strategies in the age of AI.

For more insights and in-depth discussions on the latest in technology, subscribe to the Big Technology Podcast on your favorite platform.

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Transcript

Rufus Griscom (0:00)

Was this the week the tides finally turned against Apple's disastrous Siri project? Microsoft is working through its options with OpenAI. It's all about those AI wrappers, baby. And let's talk about whether AI will take our jobs now. That's coming up right after this. Will AI improve our lives or exterminate the species? What would it take to abolish poverty? Are you eating enough fermented foods?

Ranjan Roy (0:26)

These are some of the questions we've.

Rufus Griscom (0:28)

Tackled recently on the Next Big Idea. I'm Rufus Griscom and every week I sit down with the world's leading thinkers for in depth conversations that will help you live, work and play smarter. Follow the Next Big Idea wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Big Technology Podcast Friday Edition where we break down the news in our traditional cool headed and nuanced format. A lot of stuff is moving in the world of big tech in AI this week. It's a, I think a watershed week in the age of Apple intelligence and not in a good way. We also have some news about Microsoft and OpenAI's relationship and how that's progressing. And finally, the AI field seems to be progressing beyond the model and towards the product or the wrappers. So that's going to come as welcome news to Ranjan. We'll also talk about my latest story about how I'm starting to feel like AI can do a lot of the work that I do. That's coming up in our show. Joining us as always on Friday is Ranjan Roy of Margins. Ranjan, great to see you.

Ranjan Roy (1:25)

We might have to update our. It's the products, not the model. T shirts too. It's the rapper, not the model, but we'll get to that in just a bit. But I, I'm excited to talk about Siri this week. I, I'm, I'm, I'm giddy, I'm giddy. I'm sorry, I, I shouldn't feel this much joy, but my God, there's got.

Rufus Griscom (1:44)

To be some AI rapper. Rapper puns, like hip hop puns, east coast, west coast. I don't know exactly what it is, but we'll have our merch guy work on it. We don't have a merch guy, but if we did, that's what they'd be working on.

Ranjan Roy (1:56)

And it's a good thing we don't. So we don't end up doing this, but.

Rufus Griscom (2:00)

Exactly. It might be a very successful fashion business. You never know, Ranjan, you gotta dream. Just like Apple is dreaming with Siri. And the dreams have turned to Nightmare. This week, to me seemed like the week where the tides finally turned on Siri. And it begins with this Gurman story that comes out at the beginning of the week talking about how Apple's artificial intelligence efforts reach a make or break point. Now, I think that's a very nice headline from an editor because when you start reading the story, it's clear that Gurman doesn't think it's reaching a make or break point. It's clear that Gurman is telling us, and I think we can all see with our own eyes we've been talking about on the show, that Siri is an absolute embarrassment. And look at the first paragraph of the show. Apple, the company behind the Mac, iPhone, iPad and other groundbreaking products, has typically beaten rivals by following the hockey approach. Skate to where the puck is going to be rather where it is right now. But we're currently in the middle of the biggest technological revolution since the debut of the Internet and Apple is barely even on the ice. I mean, this is a week of terrible cliches that are beaten to death, but each one of them has Apple. Not on the ice. A corpse will read them all. Now, Gurman says the unveiling of Amazon's Alexa plus has made Apple's shortcomings more apparent. When Apple unveiled an AI infused version of Siri in June, the system looked great in computer generated video. The reality, though, is the company barely had a functional prototype and Apple engineers are going to need to move mountains to get it finished as planned. We already know that it's not finished as planned. This type of strong, forceful wording from someone like Gurman coming out about the new Siri, I think just is a moment where the narrative shifts. And I think as journalists, we sort of have to wait a while before we say, yeah, this isn't working right. The company might always be a little bit behind. You have to reserve judgment. You can't really say in week three or four, or month three or four, that it isn't working. But now we are months after last year's WWDC event and we're coming up towards the next one. And as we take that leap around the sun, it seems like the promises of Siri have gone from something that generated true excitement among Siri watchers like you, Ranjan, and has now become a deep disappointment and a deep embarrassment for Apple. And that's why you're seeing this moment here, is because it's finally been enough time that the commentators can say with credibility, this is a disaster. And this is a disaster.

Rufus Griscom (6:40)

And by the way, you're hitting on something that Panos and Daniel broke broke down in the Amazon episode. So I asked them basically like is there a switcher that goes from this deterministic type of if then statement to the stochastic or probabilistic LLM approach. By the way, LLMs, they are stochastic and they basically explain like you're thinking this as just like you know, one model, but there's a number of models to it, it's far more advanced than that. And then as you read Gurman's story, you do see that this elementary architecture that I was envisioning is built within the latest Alexa. It actually exists within Siri. This is from German story, the current iOS 18 version of Siri essentially has two brains, one that operates the legacy Siri commands like timers and making calls, and another that handles more advanced queries. The latter capability will be able to tap user data and already is used to not get confused when people change their request. Mid command now says for the next operating system for iOS 19, Apple's plan is to merge both systems together and roll out a new Siri architecture. I expect this to be introduced as early as Apple's worldwide developer conference in June of this year, with the launch by spring 2026 or as part of iOS 19.4. The new system, dubbed LLM Siri internally, was supposed to also introduce a more conversational approach in the same release, but that is now running behind schedule as well and won't be unveiled in June. Something is rotten within Apple, and I'm not saying that this means that they're bad people. I'm not saying that this means that, you know, there's, there's ethical issues. I am going to say there's. There must be a cultural problem. Because if you're Apple and you have the ability to legitimately attract the best and the brightest in Silicon Valley in the tech world, and you fall behind when you are behind Alexa to the point where they are getting ready to release their update next this month, and you legitimately can't get into shape after announcing the vision at wwdc, your organization is messed up. There's no potential explanation other than that.

Rufus Griscom (21:39)

I would say generative AI is about as software as it gets now. Can it function as an operating system? Sure, we think that it might. I mean we've seen some failures with Rabbit and Humane trying to have AI as an operating system, but it can. But the thing is with hardware and with an operating system, right, you have predictability. This is the system. The parts fit in very predetermined way within the system and they go arrange. Here you have the, you know, icons, you tap in, you go into an app. The app has to be built according to these exact specifications. In software you sort of, you have to live in a world of uncertainty and a world where users can sort of push the boundaries of what you do. LLMs are that without a doubt. So to me it just seems like that's going to be kind of rough for them to build. And it sort of leads us to this question of do they want to continue to stick with Siri or potentially give the space that Apple Intelligence inhabits over prominently to somebody else. M.G. siegler writes in Spyglass Apple should swap out Siri with ChatGPT. This is again this week. It's part of the wave. He's responding, by the way, to what Gurman says about when this is going to be good, gurman wrote. People with Apples within Apple's AI division now believe that a true modernized, conversational version of Siri won't reach consumers until iOS 20 at best in 2027. This is basically akin to what we saw with Alexa plus that's coming this week in 2025, MG writes. If this is true, it's not just a joke, it's downright worrying. And if it's not true, Apple should probably do something to refute it because it's quite damaging on a number of fronts. And it couldn't come at a worse time with Apple having finally just unveiled with with Amazon having just finally unveiled Alexa plus if Amazon was sort of a tortoise in this race to the hairs of Google and OpenAI as always, there's hope that despite being slow to start, the tortoise can steadily win in the end. Apple is more like a dead duck now in the same race, a corpse 2027 how about never is never good for you? MG writes, citing an older story. Why not fully outsource Siri to ChatGPT? You'd still want to keep the task oriented elements like setting timers with her, but everything that requires anything resembling a search query should be outsourced. Right now you can fully force this by asking Siri to ask ChatGPT something, but it's cumbersome. I'm suggesting this be made the default action. He writes that Apple has long had an illustrious history of teaming up with partners to get a service out the door while they work on their own solution behind the scenes. So basically they could potentially work with OpenAI for a couple years as they get their solution in order. But in the meantime maybe they just want to give it over to OpenAI which has a great voice assistant with GPT4.0 and could handle a lot of the stuff that Siri is struggling to do today. What do you think?

Rufus Griscom (33:25)

We're back here on Big Technology Podcast Friday Edition. All right, let's talk about this very interesting Microsoft and OpenAI story. So Ranjan, you and I have talked about how there's been tension between Microsoft and OpenAI in the past few weeks and or in the past months really? And the information really breaks it all down. The story breaks down what Mustafa Suleiman, who's the CEO of Microsoft AI, has been up to within the company. It is very interesting as Microsoft starts to effectively insulate it from OpenAI itself from OpenAI. And I do wonder what happens with the relationship there. Let me just read the first couple paragraphs of the story. Last fall, during a video call with Senior leaders at OpenAI and Microsoft, Suleiman, who leads Microsoft's in house artificial intelligence unit, wanted OpenAI staffers to explain how its latest model, OpenAI worked. According to someone present for the conversation, he was peeved that OpenAI wasn't providing Microsoft with documentation about how it programmed O1 to think about users queries before answering them. The process, known as chain of thought is a key ingredient in in the secret recipe of any AI model. Raising his voice, Suleiman told Mir Murati, then OpenAI's chief technology officer, the AI startup wasn't holding its end of the deal the bargain. It wasn't holding up its end of the deal with Microsoft, with which OpenAI has a wide ranging analysis. And Suleiman cut the call short. So that's who he yelled at. He yelled at Miramorati. He's simultaneously tasked with carrying on the OpenAI partnership. At the same time he he's also under orders to put Microsoft on a path to self sufficiency in AI, so won't have to rely on OpenAI's technology for the majority of Microsoft's AI products. Interesting situation here for Suleiman trying to we finally have conversation that confirmation that Microsoft is going to try to be self sufficient and there's been some serious yelling, shall we say, between the two parties. Is this, this is a big story to the information. I just want to get your perspective Ranjan, on this. Is this natural? Is this surprising do we already know this or is this potentially a breaking point between the two?