Big Technology Podcast: Brain Computer Interface Frontier — Movement, Coma, Depression, AI Merge

Host: Alex Kantrowitz
Guests: Michael Major (CEO, Precision Neuroscience), Ben Rapoport (Co-founder, neurosurgeon)
Date: September 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the cutting edge of brain-computer interfaces (BCIs), their rapid real-world deployment, and their transformative potential across medicine, neuroscience, and even artificial intelligence. Host Alex Kantrowitz sits down with Precision Neuroscience’s leadership—CEO Michael Major and neurosurgeon/co-founder Ben Rapoport—to discuss parallels and contrasts with Neuralink, how BCIs promise to revolutionize treatment for paralysis, stroke, depression, and coma, and what happens when our brains and technology get even closer. The conversation moves fluidly from the practical (current clinical achievements, FDA clearances) to the profound (decoding consciousness, the “AI merge,” and the ethics of direct brain-device connections).

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The State of Brain Computer Interfaces in 2025

(00:00–06:40)

• Reshaping Medicine: BCIs are rapidly moving from research to clinical reality, especially in enabling people with paralysis to control digital devices directly with their brain signals.

• Precision Neuroscience, founded in 2021, has raised $155M and performed 40 implants—more than any other company in the sector.

  “We are well out of the realm of scientific research and on the path to bringing brain computer interfaces into medical reality.” — Ben Rapoport, [05:33]

• Device Innovation: Their BCI is "thinner than a piece of Scotch tape," flexible, and sits atop the brain without penetrating tissue—a safer alternative to the needle-like electrodes of competitors such as Neuralink.

  “Safety and performance are not in opposition. They are actually self-reinforcing.” — Michael Major, [06:40]
  “We manufacture this system using photolithography… the first example of cutting edge manufacturing techniques being applied to medical technology.” — Michael Major, [09:09]

Why Surface Electrodes Work (and Why It Matters)

(09:09–16:42)

• High Resolution, Low Damage: The device uses 1024–4096 electrodes that simply rest on the cortex, capturing rich electrical activity without brain injury.

  “You can get incredibly high fidelity function out of these interfaces… we’ve begun to show that, in ways that are surprising even to experts.” — Ben Rapoport, [15:36]

• Broad Applicability: Because most conscious experience happens in the cortex (brain surface), these arrays can target movement, sensation, vision, and decision-making without invasive deep brain procedures.

• Analogy: Higher electrode counts = greater “bandwidth,” like upgrading from dial-up to fiber internet:

  “A 56k modem is capable of chat, whereas a fiber optic connection enables Netflix. It’s the same thing with BCI…” — Michael Major, [17:29]

From Movement to Wider Clinical Uses

(22:59–30:25)

• Development Philosophy: Precision pursued temporary implants first to ensure safety and effectiveness. Now, with FDA clearance, they’re moving toward 30-day, then fully permanent, implants.

  “We are the first modern BCI company to have an FDA clearance… [and will] validate the quality of decoding algorithms as devices are left in place.” — Ben Rapoport, [20:12]

• Beyond Severe Paralysis:

  • Next, BCIs could aid stroke survivors and patients with partial paralysis—one of the biggest unmet needs in neurology.
  • Decoding intention could help stroke patients communicate or interact with technology even if physical dexterity is lost.

  “We believe that stroke is a next step for brain-computer interfaces in the medical world… designed to treat are really forms of severe paralysis [but] stroke affects almost a million US patients per year…” — Ben Rapoport, [23:56]

Closed-Loop Therapies & Brain Health

(30:25–34:47)

• Digital Biomarkers: BCIs may detect impending episodes of depression or epilepsy by “reading” brain electrical signals before visible symptoms.

  “You might see… digital signatures that are predictive of [a patient] entering a relapse. That can be life-saving…” — Ben Rapoport, [31:40]

• Precision’s Ecosystem: They envision other devices plugging into their high-fidelity neural “API,” much like software platforms in tech.

Creating a “Foundation Model” for the Brain & Data Regularity Breakthroughs

(34:47–37:34)

• ML and Population Learning: Precision’s grid arrangement means data structure is consistent across patients, enabling comparison, compression, and more powerful machine learning.

  “The data is so regular in structure that we’re able to compress it, learn across patients, and leverage those learnings… that has been a massive advantage.” — Ben Rapoport, [36:06]

• Could We Build a Foundational Model for the Brain?

  • Most conscious functions are localised in certain regions (not “uniform”); so “whole brain” decoding isn’t as hard as it sounds—but also not as magical.

  “We want to be able to interface with the parts of the brain that are responsible for our conscious interaction with the world… that actually is a spatially limited portion.” — Ben Rapoport, [39:58]

The Limits & Possibilities of Memory Decoding

(41:28–46:25)

• Downloading Memories?
  • Decoding a memory is fundamentally harder than finding a data file; memory retrieval in the brain requires external (internal) prompts and is distributed.
  • No “file location”—memories are “reactivated” by stimulation/triggers, not stored in discrete spots.

  “There’s no scan… that looks into the brain and says ‘there is the face of your family’… it's very different.” — Ben Rapoport, [44:39]

• Can BCI Trigger Forgotten Memories?
  • In principle, electrical stimulation sometimes does elicit memories, but mapping this is rudimentary compared to our understanding of motor and decision circuits.

Augmenting Human Cognition & The Future of Human-Computer Interfaces

(48:36–50:41)

• Seamless Computer Control: The near future is “thought-based” computer control (now in trials).

  “The concept of seeing people control computers with their thoughts is going to become much less amazing and much more commonplace.” — Michael Major, [50:28]

• Beyond Keyboards & Voice: BCIs could facilitate almost “predictive” user interfaces, bypassing the physical latency of keyboards and speech, possibly exceeding human reaction times.

  “Many trial participants have described it… as if the neural interface is predicting what they're thinking.” — Ben Rapoport, [66:06]

Decision-Making and AI Insights

(50:41–52:23)

• Understanding Decisions:
  • Prediction of choices (seconds in advance) is now feasible.

  “Predicting decisions before they happen… is already possible.” — Ben Rapoport, [51:35]

• AI Synergy:
  • As AI systems draw architectural cues from the brain, high-resolution neural data could inspire breakthroughs in next-generation “foundation models” in AI.

Coma, Consciousness, and Ethical Frontiers

(52:23–58:45)

• Diagnosing Disorders of Consciousness:
  • Many patients previously thought “coma” may be merely unable to communicate; BCIs could diagnose and even allow basic communication.

  “Some people… have the ability to think… but they can't make that movement manifest in the outside world… BCI technology can provide a tool to distinguish those patients from true coma.” — Ben Rapoport, [56:40]

• Real World Application:
  • Could vastly change outcomes and care decisions through more accurate, earlier diagnosis.

Ethics, Privacy, and the “Merge”

(58:45–67:32)

• Data Security:

  • Neural data is unique—regulators, industry, and advocates are collaborating on guidelines and safeguards.

  “There’s nothing more inherent to who we are than our brain activity… data privacy, data security, and ethical considerations [are] specifically focused on.” — Michael Major, [59:51, 61:44]

• Who Controls the Interface?

  • Also touches on science fiction: could brain BCIs be abused, hacked, or become addictive? (“Rats pushing pleasure levers = Instagram for humans.” [59:44–59:48])

  “We take our responsibility in this regard very seriously and we take these thought experiments very seriously.” — Ben Rapoport, [61:44]

• Merging with AI / AI Consciousness:

  • “It’s already happening”—the BCI is a step in a longer process of tighter integration of brains and machine intelligence.

  “We see BCIs today… as the foundational layer of a merger between the brain and artificial intelligence.” — Ben Rapoport, [64:09]

  • Ben unequivocally affirms AIs could eventually achieve consciousness.

  “Yes.” — Ben Rapoport (on AI consciousness), [63:27–63:45]

Industry Outlook

(67:20–69:44)

• Business & Timelines:
  • Within five years, expect commercial BCI systems for severe paralysis, expanding to markets 10–15× larger (e.g., stroke, movement deficit).
  • Market projections: initial severe paralysis market worth $2.5B, expanding toward $400B total addressable market in the decades ahead.

  “Morgan Stanley estimated a $400 billion TAM… We expect within five years there to be [a] precision system on the market… making a big clinical impact for people who are severely paralyzed then expanding… as applications become wider.” — Michael Major, [67:32]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the flexibility and scalability of the surface electrode approach:

  “Most of conscious human experience is happening very close to the surface… The ability to put a few square centimeters of high density electrodes on the brain surface allows us to interface with the entire extent of your desire and planned actions into the outside world.” — Ben Rapoport, [12:59]

• On digital biomarkers:

  “A digital biomarker… it's a digital signal you get by electrically reading the brain… that are predictive of [a depression] relapse, and that can be life-saving.” — Ben Rapoport, [31:40]

• On the ultimate vision:

  “Could we build a foundational model for the brain?” “As we mentioned earlier, the distribution of information through the brain is not uniform… most of the brain is taking care of the body… only some parts are relevant to conscious interaction.”
  — Ben Rapoport, [37:34–39:58]

• On memory and neurotechnology limitations:

  “There’s no file address… in your brain… It’s not that [memories] don’t exist, but the storage mechanism is very different.” — Ben Rapoport, [45:45]

• On direct neural-digital world integration:

  “We already are augmented by AI; it’s just slow. We have to type. I think there will be an ability to access information much more quickly and also much more intuitively with context…” — Michael Major, [67:32]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–03:10] — Introduction, Precision background, device description
• [06:40–09:09] — Device innovation, non-invasive approach, achieving clinical milestones
• [12:59–16:42] — Why cortex is central to BCIs, why deep brain access isn’t necessary
• [20:12–22:14] — Temporary vs. permanent implants, FDA clearance
• [23:56–28:32] — Stroke, partial paralysis, and the next applications for BCIs
• [31:40–33:30] — Digital biomarkers: depression, epilepsy
• [36:36–39:58] — Data regularity, population learning, AI crossover
• [41:28–46:25] — Can we decode memory? Differences between brains and digital file systems
• [50:41–51:35] — Predicting decisions, potential for decision support
• [52:57–58:45] — Coma, consciousness, diagnosis and communication with BCI
• [59:44–62:51] — Data privacy, thoughtful science, ethical considerations
• [63:27–67:32] — AI merge, future of AI consciousness, industry projections

Takeaway

This episode reveals that brain computer interfaces are rapidly moving from science fiction to transformative clinical solutions—from restoring digital independence to paralyzed people, through pioneering the diagnosis and treatment of disorders like stroke and depression, to offering foundational neuroscience insights with implications for AI and the possibly blurred boundaries between human and digital consciousness. Safety, scalability, and practical utility are getting as much attention as bold speculation, enriched by the lived expertise of the participants. The merger of hardware, machine learning, and clinical neurology is only accelerating, and this conversation offers listeners a nuanced, in-depth roadmap for what’s coming next.