Big Technology Podcast: Spotify's Plan For AI Generated Music, Podcasts, and Recommendations — With Gustav Söderström

Release Date: November 13, 2024
Host: Alex Kantrowitz
Guest: Gustav Söderström, Spotify’s Chief Product Officer, Chief Technology Officer, and Co-President

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Big Technology Podcast, host Alex Kantrowitz engages in a comprehensive discussion with Gustav Söderström, Spotify’s multifaceted leader, about the transformative role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the music industry, podcasting, audiobooks, and personalized recommendations. The conversation delves deep into how AI is not only enhancing creativity but also reshaping user experiences and industry dynamics.

AI-Generated Music: Opportunity or Threat?

Exploring AI as a Creative Tool

Gustav Söderström expresses excitement about AI’s capabilities in music creation. He likens AI tools to historical advancements in music technology, such as digital audio workstations (DAWs) and synthesizers, which have democratized music production.

“I think there's been this progression of more powerful tools that enabled more and more creativity.” [03:35]

Söderström emphasizes that AI should be viewed as a tool that amplifies creativity rather than replacing human musicians. He highlights the spectrum of AI involvement in music production, from minimal assistance to fully AI-generated tracks, noting the complexity in categorizing what constitutes an "AI song."

“It's giving more and more people the access to be creative. You need even less motor skills... so I think there's this progression of more powerful tools.” [03:35]

Balancing Creativity and Compensation

Addressing concerns about AI's impact on traditional musicians, Söderström acknowledges the necessity of compensating creators whose work contributes to AI training models. He underscores Spotify’s commitment to supporting creators by navigating legal frameworks and ensuring fair monetization.

“If creators can participate in it, yes... we are a tool for creators.” [06:26]

AI in Podcasting: Enhancing Discoverability and Engagement

The Rise of AI-Generated Podcast Hosts

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on AI's role in podcasting, particularly the emergence of AI-generated hosts like Google's Notebook LM. Söderström admires the technological advancements that allow AI to generate engaging dialogues, though he remains cautious about AI fully replacing human hosts.

“I think Notebook LM is very impressive... but what I think was the great innovation was presenting it as a dialogue.” [16:53]

Enhancing Discoverability with AI

Söderström discusses Spotify’s efforts to improve podcast discoverability through short-form previews and video integrations. He explains how these features help users evaluate whether to invest time in a podcast, addressing the challenge of conveying the essence of long-form content succinctly.

“We're investing quite a lot in sort of the 'preview problem.'” [49:32]

User Engagement and Feedback

Emphasizing the importance of user feedback, Söderström highlights Spotify’s initiatives to make recommendations more interactive. Features like AI playlisting allow users to provide nuanced feedback, enhancing recommendation accuracy and personalization.

“With AI playlisting, you can prompt an LLM with what kind of playlist you want... and then say yes or no to refine it.” [34:56]

AI-Powered Recommendations: Striking the Balance Between Automation and User Control

Evolving Recommendation Systems

Söderström outlines Spotify’s journey from social-based recommendations to machine learning-driven systems. He envisions AI becoming a more interactive "ambient friend" that understands users' contexts and preferences deeply.

“We can have a literal relationship with [AI], thinking of it as a friend that knows me well.” [23:04]

Addressing User Concerns and Preferences

Responding to critiques about algorithm-led listening experiences, Söderström acknowledges the diverse user base and the need to balance automated recommendations with personal control. He emphasizes Spotify’s commitment to providing tools that allow users to influence their recommendations actively.

“We are trying our best to make sure that it is vastly better for the majority of people... catering to everyone.” [29:20]

Innovations in Recommendation Technology

Gustav elaborates on the shift towards generative recommendations using large language models (LLMs), which offer scalable and nuanced understanding of user preferences. This advancement aims to overcome the limitations of traditional deep learning models that had plateaued in recommendation quality.

“Generative recommendations... scale with more use of data and more parameters, just like the LLMs.” [39:39]

Integrating Podcasts and Audiobooks: A Unified Experience

Strategic Integration of Multiple Formats

Spotify’s strategy to consolidate music, podcasts, and audiobooks within a single app stems from recognizing user needs and the inefficiencies of maintaining separate platforms. Söderström argues that the software should adapt to the content, enhancing user experience by providing seamless transitions between different media types.

“In 2024, the user should not adapt the software to the content. The software should adapt to the content.” [46:25]

Challenges in Discoverability

Discoverability remains a significant challenge for podcasts and audiobooks due to their longer engagement times compared to music. Spotify addresses this by creating short-form previews and integrating video elements to help users quickly assess content suitability before committing time.

“Podcasts are different. You kind of need a trailer because it could be an hour of investment.” [49:32]

The Influence of Social Platforms and User Behavior

TikTok’s Role in Music Discovery

Söderström acknowledges the substantial influence of platforms like TikTok on music culture and discovery. Spotify leverages these platforms by enabling track saving directly from TikTok, capturing a significant discovery funnel and integrating seamlessly with users' social interactions.

“TikTok is a huge discovery funnel for us... saving from these platforms captures downstream listening.” [53:14]

Social Listening Experiences

Contrary to the perception of individual listening, Söderström reveals that a considerable portion of Spotify’s usage involves social listening. Features like Spotify’s "Jam" facilitate joint listening experiences, highlighting the ongoing social nature of music consumption.

“Music is actually a very social activity still... listening happens more than maybe people think.” [43:59]

Future Outlook and Final Thoughts

Balancing Technology with Human Connection

Söderström envisions a future where AI enhances user experiences without diminishing human connections. He believes that while AI can handle more individualized and ambient listening needs, the human element in music and podcasting remains irreplaceable for deeper emotional connections and identity-building.

“The human need for having someone to believe in an actual artist... is not going to be replaced by AI.” [14:39]

Continuous Innovation and Adaptation

Concluding the conversation, Söderström emphasizes Spotify’s dedication to ongoing innovation, ensuring that technology serves to enrich user experiences while respecting and supporting creators. The integration of AI across various facets of Spotify’s offerings underscores the company’s commitment to staying at the forefront of the evolving digital landscape.

“It was amazing to be here... we're trying to build more controls and make recommendations more intelligent.” [55:56]

Key Takeaways

• AI as a Creative Amplifier: AI tools are viewed as enablers that enhance creativity and accessibility for a broader range of creators.

• Ethical Compensation: Ensuring fair compensation for creators whose work contributes to AI training remains a priority.

• Enhanced Discoverability: Spotify is investing in short-form previews, video integrations, and interactive recommendations to improve content discoverability.

• Social Listening: Despite the rise of individualized streaming, music remains a social activity, with features that support joint listening sessions.

• Future Integration: Spotify aims to unify music, podcasts, and audiobooks within a single platform, enhancing user experience through adaptive software.

This episode offers a deep dive into how Spotify is navigating the complexities and opportunities presented by AI, balancing technological advancements with the fundamental human aspects of music and storytelling.