Dead Fish Tell No Tales: Part 1 | 2

Summary

Big Time Podcast Summary: "Dead Fish Tell No Tales: Part 1 | 2"

Release Date: March 31, 2025

Introduction to Rossford and Walleye Fishing

In the meticulously crafted narrative of "Dead Fish Tell No Tales: Part 1 | 2," hosted by Steve Buscemi, listeners are introduced to Rossford, Ohio—a modest town with a population of 6,300 situated on the Maumee River, just eight miles upstream from Lake Erie. The town's claim to fame revolves around walleye fishing, a cultural cornerstone akin to lobster in Maine or saltwater taffy at the Jersey Shore.

Sean Flynn and Louise Jarvis Flynn, a journalist duo and passionate anglers, set the stage by highlighting the significance of walleye to Rossford:

Sean Flynn [04:00]: "Walleye are to Lake Erie what lobster is to Maine or saltwater taffy is to the Jersey Shore."

Mayor Neil McKinnon III’s Ambitious Vision

Mayor Neil McKinnon III, portrayed with both ambition and a touch of naivety, envisions transforming Rossford into a premier walleye fishing destination. His passion for the city is palpable:

Mayor Neil McKinnon III [02:19]: "I've been here my entire life. And when you love a city like I love this city, it's not enough to just be here. I want to be able to give back."

Under his leadership, the first Rossford Walleye Roundup was launched in 2017, aiming to attract fishing enthusiasts from far and wide. The initial event, sponsored by Bass Pro Shops, saw 13 teams competing for prizes totaling $3,500. Encouraged by the success, the tournament grew exponentially over the years, despite a hiatus in 2020 due to COVID-19.

The Rise of Chase Kaminski and Jake Runyon

By 2022, the tournament had garnered significant attention, attracting top-tier anglers like Chase Kaminski and Jake Runyon. Their unprecedented success—winning multiple tournaments and amassing substantial prize money—made them legends in the walleye fishing community:

Jason Fisher [08:13]: "Chase Kaminski, Jacob Runyon... they've been fishing the same waters, had their fish inspected by the same officials and weighed them on the same scale as everybody else's."

Their dominance was so pronounced that whispers of cheating began to circulate among fellow competitors. Mike Miller, a seasoned angler, voiced growing suspicions:

Mike Miller [23:35]: "Nobody's even seeing where this guy's fishing, okay? Other teams would talk about it... How is he doing this?"

Suspicion and Allegations of Cheating

The crux of the controversy centers around Chase and Jake's uncanny ability to consistently outfish their competitors. The tournament rules stipulated that anglers must fish in designated areas and present live walleye for inspection and weighing. However, discrepancies in the size and number of fish caught by Chase and Jake raised red flags.

Tensions escalated during the 2022 Walleye Trail Championship in Cleveland, a pivotal event doubling as a fundraiser for a young boy battling cancer. As the tournament progressed, observers noted that Chase and Jake's catches were implausibly large and frequent compared to other competitors.

The Climactic 2022 Walleye Trail Championship

The tension reached its peak during the final weigh-in of the championship. Mike Miller, observing the mounting success of Chase and Jake, couldn’t shake his doubts:

Mike Miller [26:08]: "When they put the first fish on the scale, the big fish, in my gut, there's something. No way. There is no way that's an eight-pound fish."

As Chase and Jake triumphantly placed their catches on the scale, the reality of their inflated weights became undeniable. The crowd's skepticism turned into outright confrontation when Mike questioned the legitimacy of their catches:

Unnamed Fisherman [27:53]: "I want to take a look at them."

Jake's defensive reaction only heightened suspicions:

Jake Runyon [27:58]: "F you, Mike."

The situation spiraled as Chase attempted to flee, leaving Jake holding a suspicious bag of walleye, containing fish that were significantly smaller than reported.

The Confrontation and Revelation of Cheating

Amidst the chaos, Police Chief Todd Kitzler intervened, initiating an investigation into the integrity of the tournament. The discovery of smaller-than-recorded fish and the mysterious bag undermined the credibility of Chase and Jake's victories. Evidence suggested that the duo had been manipulating the competition, either by misreporting fish sizes or introducing previously caught fish to inflate their scores.

Sean Flynn [29:28]: "Lake Erie Walleye will never ever get more hits."

The fallout was swift. The revelation tarnished Rossford's reputation and cast a shadow over its ambitions to host the world's premier walleye tournament. The episode concluded on a suspenseful note, teasing the repercussions faced by Chase and Jake in the subsequent installment.

Conclusion and Significance

"Dead Fish Tell No Tales: Part 1 | 2" masterfully intertwines the allure of competitive fishing with the dark undercurrents of ambition and deceit. Through engaging storytelling and poignant quotes, the episode delves into the complexities of small-town aspirations, the pressures of maintaining integrity in competitive arenas, and the fine line between passion and obsession. For listeners unfamiliar with the episode, this summary encapsulates the essence of Rossford's journey from a quaint fishing town to the epicenter of a high-stakes walleye tournament rife with controversy.

Notable Quotes:

• Steve Buscemi [00:00]: "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying."

• Sean Flynn [05:09]: "Mayor Neal means great city in the sense that Rossford is awesome because it's not great like, say, the great Pyramids."

• Mike Miller [10:01]: "If you look out at that lake right there, you can't see any walleyes. So you know, you gotta find them and then you have to catch them."

• Neil McKinnon III [07:20]: "We were growing, and this is arrogance or ego. We want this to become the biggest and most famous professional wildlife tournament on planet Earth."

• Jason Fisher [25:38]: "Team of the year, they have to beat that team by five places to win team of the year. And there were seven that were relatively in contention to win."

This episode not only recounts a riveting tale of ambition gone awry but also serves as a cautionary narrative about the consequences of unchecked ambition and the importance of integrity in competitive pursuits.

Transcript

[Steve Buscemi]

If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying. Maybe you've heard that expression a time or two, and it would stand to reason that a good time to try that concept out would be in a fishing competition. After all, who's gonna get hurt too bad by a little cheating? It turns out a whole town could get hurt. And that's why when a dynamic duo and a fishing event in Ohio pursue victory by any means necessary, it becomes just as necessary for tournament organizers to bring down the Hamm. Steve I'm Steve Buscemi, and you're listening to Big Time, an Apple original podcast from Piece of Work Entertainment and Campside Media in association with Olive Productions. Today, to tell us a tale of a truly epic and public fail, we have our own dynamic duo, journalist, married couple and honest anglers, Sean Flynn and Louise Jarvis Flynn with part one of our story. Dead Fish tell no tales.

[Narrator]

Every small town that wants to be a bigger town has to come up with something special. Claim to fame has to be hyper local and plentiful, which means it may be a little odd.

[Sean Flynn]

For example, Banner Elk, North Carolina, population 1,350, has a lot of woolly worms. And a woolly worm festival that draws 20,000 people every every year. The good people of Clinton, Montana, all 811 of them, got 10,000 visitors every summer to eat deep fried bull testicles.

[Neil McKinnon III]

Walleye fishing is a big deal in all of northwest Ohio and southeastern Michigan, and we're right there on the front lines of it. My name is Neil McKinnon III, and I'm the mayor of the great city of Rossford, Ohio.

[Sean Flynn]

Mayor Neil means great city in the sense that Rossford is awesome because it's not great like, say, the great Pyramids. It's neither big nor famous.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I've been here my entire life. And when you love a city like I love this city, it's not enough to just be here. I want to be able to give back.

[Narrator]

By that, he means transforming Rossford, population 6,300, into a major destination. Here's what he has to work 5 square miles on the edge of Toledo, a handful of budget hotels next to the turnpike, an Amazon distribution center, and a bass pro shop. Oh, and there's one more thing. A river runs through it.

[Sean Flynn]

Well, next to it, Rossford is on the east bank of the Maumee River, a mere eight miles upstream from Lake Erie. And you know what's in Lake Erie? Walleye.

[Neil McKinnon III]

The walleye come right through Rossford. They go up to Perrysburg, all the way up to the Dam, and they spawn. And every year, that brings tourists, not only regionally, but nationally and internationally. If you're an avid fisherman, the walleye run would be on your bucket list. That's even if you lived in Germany or a European country.

[Narrator]

Walleye are predator fish with big, milky eyeballs that help them hunt in dark, murky lake water. Because you might be wondering, no, they are not in fact, walleyed. Both eyes point in the same direction, but that doesn't make them any easier to catch.

[Sean Flynn]

They're fantastic. Eating, white, flaky, not too many bones, good to fry, grill, bake, whatever.

[Narrator]

Locally, they're a cultural touchstone. Walleye are to lake Erie what lobster is to Maine or saltwater taffy is.

[Sean Flynn]

To the Jersey shore, or bull testicles are to Clinton, Montana.

[Narrator]

In Ohio, you can even get a walleye on your license plate.

[Sean Flynn]

And those fish were going to make Rossford famous. In 2017, the city hosted the first ever Rossford walleye roundup. Competitive fishing for money. That was Rossford's ticket to greatness.

[Narrator]

Competitive walleye tournaments happen all up and down Lake Erie from spring through the fall. Weekend after weekend, you see fleets of fishermen towing their boats from town to town along the lake. For these walleye competitions, they usually fish in teams of two, and the basic rules are mostly the same. You fish in a designated area, the five biggest walleye you catch that day or wade that day, and the heaviest catch winds.

[Sean Flynn]

And you can win a lot. Thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands, maybe even a new boat. Most tournaments last two days, but the big granddaddy at the end of the season, the walleye fall brawl goes on for weeks and pays out more than $100,000 to first place Rossford in 2017 couldn't afford anything like that. It was a small tournament, brand new, but a city can dream.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I wanted all the trappings, all the bells and wh. And the more people that came to Rossford, the better. I mean, I wanted to do food trucks and a beer garden. I wanted to bring one or two national acts in to headline and to have some local acts open up. I wanted to turn it into something national. I wanted to make this the biggest walleye tournament on planet earth.

[Sean Flynn]

Mayor Neal says that a lot. The biggest tournament on planet earth.

[Narrator]

Aspirations of global domination. I see no way this plan could go awry.

[Neil McKinnon III]

You know that old saying, this isn't our first rodeo. In 2017, it was our first rodeo.

[Sean Flynn]

We're in the back room of a bar called moe's place on Rossford's very Short main drag.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I think we're really good to the fishermen. Basically, whatever the entry fee was back then, you got twice that back in freebies.

[Sean Flynn]

Bass Pro Shops was the main sponsor. There were 13 two person teams for the first Rossford Walleye Roundup. Each of which paid a $500 entry fee. After two days of fishing. The winner was a father and son team from Michigan. They took home $3,500, new rods and reels and free lodging and entry for next year's roundup.

[Neil McKinnon III]

Even if you didn't win anything, Fast Pro was the consummate host. And I thought the visitors at convention bureau did an amazing job of taking care of the fishermen.

[Todd Kitzler]

The police provided security for their boats.

[Sean Flynn]

This is Todd Kitzler, Rossford's police chief.

[Todd Kitzler]

They were all parked in the same kind of hotel complex. So they didn't have to worry about their boats getting broke into. They got a lot of equipment on.

[Narrator]

Rossford aimed for VIP service. And word got around. The next year, there were twice as many teams and the purse was twice as big.

[Sean Flynn]

And it kept growing year after year. The 2020 roundup was canceled because of COVID But the next year 2021 was a monster comeback. Almost 50 teams and a total payout of $30,000.

[Neil McKinnon III]

We were growing, and this is an arrogance or ego. We want this to become the biggest and most famous professional wildlife tournament on planet Earth. That really was our goal at the. We were getting up there. The feedback we were getting from the fishermen was amazing. And all of a sudden, there were certain corporate sponsors that were showing up that were never there before. So we thought we were either on the launch pad or we were launching.

[Sean Flynn]

By 2022, Rossford was attracting some of the best walleye fishers around. There were two guys, in fact, that everyone in walleye world was talking about. Two guys who'd been on the most remarkable tear of anybody in walleye history.

[Jason Fisher]

All right. In first place in the open division and currently leading the Walleye Slam and the Fall Brawl, Chase Kaminski, Jacob Runyon, your championship.

[Sean Flynn]

And they were coming to Rossford.

[Jason Fisher]

Congratulations, guys. You guys earned it. You've been fishing.

[Narrator]

That's Jason Fisher. He owns and runs the Lake Erie Walleye Trail, a series of roving tournaments that run all season. You just heard him at the end of the 2021 season when Chase Kaminski and his fishing partner Jacob Runyon dominated with wins at the Walleye Fall Brawl, the Walleye Slam, and. And the Lake Erie Walleye Trail Championship. That's a walleye triple crown. And yep, the man who runs the fishing tournaments is named Fisher. He's probably so tired of that.

[Mike Miller]

I always joke we're all too old and fat to play baseball. So here we are, we fish, we show up whose equipment's the best. You got flashy boats, flashy trucks, stickers all over your gear, and you go out and just kind of stack it up at the end of the day. And when it's all said and done, you know, these guys are buddies. They're. They're just normal Joes. They all have jobs. Nobody does this for a living.

[Sean Flynn]

Jason's a good guy, well liked. You can see it in the way the other anglers interact with him. And he knows as much about walleye and what it takes to catch them as anyone competing.

[Mike Miller]

They can be tricky, especially inland lakes. But here on Lake Erie, it's the most plentiful fish out there. There's a lot of different ways to catch them. And you can have a lot of success here on Lake Erie. And some people would think walleye fishing is easy, but that's because they do it here, go everywhere else in the world. You know, they are a difficult. They're a very finicky fish.

[Sean Flynn]

There's definitely a level of skill separating your typical weekend caster from serious walleye competitors. But it also means that at these walleye tournaments, all the regulars are experts. So the difference between first and second place, or first and fifth comes down to ounces. So there's skill involved, definitely, but there's also luck.

[Mike Miller]

If you look out at that lake right there, you can't see any walleyes. So you know, you gotta find them and then you have to catch them. So it's a difficult thing to do. And it's difficult to always be the top dog, the number one guy. And then you factor in all the actual competition. Everybody else is doing the same thing, you know, so it's a very difficult thing to do. Guys will get a win, maybe two, they'll finish top fives. But it's tough to win event after event after event.

[Narrator]

The tournament regulars, they pretty much know each other. They fish together and against each other, month after month and year after year. For the most part, they're friends, or at least friendly. I mean, nobody is really a stranger here, at least not for long.

[Mike Miller]

You know, you're just out here just trying to fuel your spirit, keep it going. You know, it's just what. That's what we do. And that's all these guys are. They're just little kids and grown ups, bodies out Here having fun.

[Sean Flynn]

By the end of 2021, Chase and Jake seemed to be having a lot of fun. Catching fish and cashing checks. They were killing it, maybe a little too hard. People noticed. People talked.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I think because of the tournaments that they had won, they. They were on everybody's radar screen.

[Sean Flynn]

Here's Mayor Neil again.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I would compare it to a local charity golf outing. You never want to win it because there's always suspicion. You want to come in second because nobody cares who came in second, and you still get a couple of prizes. So I heard the same whispers and the same animosity towards them, more than I did hear from anyone else. I just thought it was jealousy.

[Sean Flynn]

But there was something Mayor Neal did not know. Chase and Jake were actually disqualified from one of those big tournaments they initially won. It was the Fall Brawl, the big granddaddy with the $100,000 prize in December 2021.

[Narrator]

Their names and fish had just disappeared from the website quietly and without any initial explanation.

[Sean Flynn]

Did they withdraw? Was there some kind of unfortunate technicality? A rules violation perhaps? It was all very fishy.

[Narrator]

So really only the walleye knew that a murky little mystery was about to unfold. On Thursday, April 14, boats started pulling into Rossford for the 2022 Walleye Roundup. Chase and Jake arrived in style, hauling Chase's $100,000 Ranger 662, light gray. Two days of fishing would commence. The.

[Neil McKinnon III]

We have a dinner registration, a welcoming, food trucks. The attitude of the fishermen the night before was excellent. It was like a tailgate party, but everybody's rooting for the same team. I'm obviously very biased, but I loved every second of it.

[Narrator]

There are storm clouds gathering on the horizon. Mayor Neal does not notice because the next morning is perfect. Sunny, 50 degrees, 20 grand on the table.

[Neil McKinnon III]

Everybody's optimistic. Everybody can't wait to get on the water.

[Narrator]

Every other year, the boats head launched from Rossford. But remember, that's eight miles up the river from Lake Erie. So for 2022, the launch moved to Cullen park in Toledo, right on the water.

[Neil McKinnon III]

Thought it was, it was. It was the right move for the tournament, especially the right move for the fishermen, them being closer to the lake where they're actually going to fish. I was more than fine with it.

[Sean Flynn]

Logistics may not seem important, but just wait.

[Narrator]

It's late afternoon, and all the boats putter back to Cullen park with their five biggest walleye. A tournament official inspects the boats as usual, looking in the live well, that's the compartment on your boat full of water. It's like a well that keeps the fish alive. And he looks in there and he counts the fish. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he makes sure that they're all still alive. That's part of the rules.

[Sean Flynn]

He's also checking to make sure that there aren't more than five fish on the boat. You can't catch, say, eight big fish and save three of them for the second day of competition. You've got to start fresh. After the inspection, the fishermen drive their catch back to Bass Pro shop in Rossford to be weighed. Now, in most tournaments, there's no driving at all. The fish are weighed right there near the boat launch. But the roundup is launching their boats from Cullen Park. That's 20 minutes up the highway.

[Narrator]

That's 20 minutes alone, unsupervised with your walleye.

[Sean Flynn]

Very unhappy walleye.

[Narrator]

Super unhappy by the time they're put on a scale in Rossford. But as Police Chief Todd Kitzler knows, dead fish tell no tales.

[Todd Kitzler]

Is that fish dead or is that fish alive? Well, it might have been alive at Cullen, it might have been dead at Bass Pro. It could have been a fish from the day before. You see where I'm going with it?

[Sean Flynn]

Oh, yeah. A live fish you almost certainly caught that day during the tournament. A dead one. That could be some monster you caught two days ago and kept on ice.

[Narrator]

But that would be cheating. After the first day, there's no clear front runner, no big trophy fish to get. Everybody stoked. Chase and Jake had a good catch. Nothing of remarkable size, but heavy enough to be in contention.

[Sean Flynn]

Day two of the tournament, something shifted.

[Neil McKinnon III]

The mood had definitely changed. There was no excitement with it. There weren't a lot of trophy sized fish. A lot of the teams, I think were pretty much beat up and tired. The conditions weren't that great and it was a long 48 hours. I think most of them were just ready to go home.

[Narrator]

And the winners, that would be Chase and Jake. With a two day total of nearly 69 pounds of walleye.

[Neil McKinnon III]

It wasn't till the end when it was over and the winners were announced that in the four or five years that we have done this, it wasn't whispers anymore. People were visibly frustrated and verbally frustrated.

[Sean Flynn]

How did Chase and Jake do it again?

[Narrator]

Nobody could figure it out. I mean, they fished the same waters, had their fish inspected by the same officials and weighed them on the same scale at the same time as everybody else's. How much luck was reasonable and would.

[Sean Flynn]

It ever run out? Not anytime soon. Chase and Jake left Rossford with a check for $10,000. And this is a twist. They're fish. This detail is important. At most tournaments, everyone donates their fish to a local soup kitchen or food pantry. No one wants good walleye to go to waste. The Rossford Roundup donated fish to Toledo's helping hands of St. Louis.

[Neil McKinnon III]

These guys fish competitively, and when they're not fishing competitively, they're practicing. So there's not a professional walleye team that doesn't have more fish in their freezer than they know what to do with on the last day. These two guys who are as accomplished as anybody and have been on such a hot streak, they didn't donate their fish back. I'm thinking you just won this tournament, you just won all this money, you just got all this recognition, and you want to take those fish home and clean them. Look, I love walleye as much as anybody, but if I win $10,000, I'm not cleaning fish. I'm going to eat lobster. Am I wrong? It didn't make sense to me, and I thought it weird, but that was it.

[Sean Flynn]

Definitely weird. But there was another weird thing, too. On the first day of the roundup, after their boat was inspected and their fish were counted in the live well, Chase and Jake took a wrong turn on their way in.

[Narrator]

Another team followed them because they thought Chase and Jake knew a shortcut. But no.

[Sean Flynn]

They drove to their hotel where Chase unloaded a black bag from the front of his boat. And in that bag were three walleye.

[Narrator]

We know this because the other team had a dash cam in their truck that was recording. And they asked Chase what he was doing with all those extra fish.

[Steve Buscemi]

This chick that I brought up here.

[Mike Miller]

To the hotel never had a wall.

[Sean Flynn]

I'm trying to cook.

[Mike Miller]

Give her some fucking.

[Narrator]

Yeah, fucking something if you missed it. Let me translate. Chase is explaining that he has a new lady friend in his hotel room who has never eaten walleye, so he's just going to cook one up for her.

[Sean Flynn]

I have doubts.

[Narrator]

Do tell.

[Sean Flynn]

One, I've stayed at that hotel. There are no cooking facilities, nothing with which one could properly prepare a fish. Two, smuggling three extra fish onto your boat is wildly against the rules.

[Narrator]

Yeah, Chase was reminded of that, and he had an explanation.

[Steve Buscemi]

Suck my dick.

[Narrator]

End scene.

[Sean Flynn]

Chase and Jake having those extra walleye, and then Chase and Jake winning. Not a good look. So a few days after the roundup, someone gave that dash cam video to the tournament director, who gave it to Mayor Neal, who gave it to Police Chief Todd.

[Neil McKinnon III]

As soon as I got the info.

[Todd Kitzler]

I'm like, I turned it over to the detective and said, hey, put everything on hold. Put all your efforts into this and figure this out one way or the other. Let's put this to bed or let's charge someone.

[Sean Flynn]

At first blush, that might seem a bit overzealous. Police investigating a fishing rules violation. But take a step back. Teams pay $500 a boat to enter. Corporations put their brands and their goods and their money behind it. Thousands of dollars are on the line.

[Narrator]

And let's not forget, nothing less than the reputation of Rossford is at stake here too. Nobody wants to be the walleye cheating capital of the world.

[Todd Kitzler]

Let's do we gotta do. Because it's the integrity of the tournament.

[Sean Flynn]

It was thoroughly investigated. But violating a tournament rule is not the same as breaking the law. And no one had any evidence of that. Water under the bridge, so to speak.

[Neil McKinnon III]

I was already looking towards next year's tournament, how to make that bigger and better. You know, I really wanted to grow this tournament from plus or minus 50 teams to 150 teams. And again, not to repeat myself, I wanted food trucks. I wanted live entertainment, beer garden activity for kids. I wanted to make this the biggest walleye tournament on planet Earth.

[Sean Flynn]

That's a lot of pressure for the little city of Rossford.

[Narrator]

Even more for the walleye. That summer, 2022, a quiet controversy followed the boats from tournament to tournament like a strange little storm cloud on a sunny day. As the walleye migrated east to colder, deeper waters, the fishermen and the cloud followed. Along the way, Chase and Jake kept gathering checks.

[Jason Fisher]

Ninth place, winning $933. Weighing 34.12 pounds. Chase Kaminsky, Jake Runyon. We got the Lake Erie walleye trail.

[Mike Miller]

Stop number three here.

[Jason Fisher]

We got Jake Runyon, Chase Kaminsky.

[Mike Miller]

They're ready to rock and roll.

[Jason Fisher]

Coming up, they got five big ran a big team. 30, 17. Chase Kaminsky, Jake Runyon. Chase Kaminsky, Jake RunYon. Totaling $4,308 in the open division.

[Unnamed Fisherman]

I think there was some crazy stat. They won nine out of 12 tournaments that they fished, which is ridiculous. I mean, just absolutely ridiculous. And it started to get to the point of like, are you kidding me?

[Narrator]

This is Mike Miller. He's been fishing tournaments since 2005. Though he took a few years off to get his deck building business established. He's been suspicious of Chase and Jake from the very beginning. Especially Chase.

[Unnamed Fisherman]

All right, hold on a minute. Nobody's even seeing where this guy's fishing, okay? Other teams would talk about it they were never seeing him on the water during tournament day or in practice. So it was like, how is he doing this?

[Sean Flynn]

When Mike and others are wondering out loud how Chase and Jake are winning, what they're really asking is, how are they cheating?

[Unnamed Fisherman]

You know, people were definitely starting to take sides. And I would actually get into arguments with people like, how do you not understand what he's doing? Are you that lined? How can you just look past it like it's black and white? It's right here. Just look. All you have to do is open your eyes and look. And I was like, all right. It wasn't ever ruining friendships with anybody, but people around the fishing community knew that I was on his ass, so to speak.

[Narrator]

Summer turned to fall, and the walleye were surely getting tired. It's the end of September and boats are gathered in Cleveland for the Walleye Trail Championship. That's Jason Fisher's big tournament. The event is also a fundraiser for a little boy with cancer. Giving back is not unusual in this community. Free rods for kids, a little swag to get the next generation excited, that sort of thing.

[Unnamed Fisherman]

It was a beautiful day, sunshine. Everybody was in great spirits.

[Narrator]

At the end of the weekend, team of the year will be crowned. Chase and Jake are top contenders. Here's Jason Fisher.

[Mike Miller]

They were fixing to win their fourth straight event, which it's not probable and I don't think it's possible, actually.

[Sean Flynn]

Chase and Jake don't need to win this tournament to be named team of the year. That's based on points, and they'd accumulated so many over the course of the season that even with a middling catch this weekend, they're shoo ins.

[Mike Miller]

I had literally done the math. This team needs to beat this team by five places in order to win team of the year. And, you know, I think there was seven that were relatively in contention to win, so I had those nailed down.

[Sean Flynn]

If Chase and Jake finished in 11th place, 11th, they would be team of the year. Fishing wasn't great that weekend. By day two of the tournament, they only needed five fish weighing a total of 17 pounds max. A scooch over three pounds per fish.

[Narrator]

That's a fraction of their usual haul in Rossford. They brought in more than 30 pounds of fish on both days.

[Mike Miller]

When they were coming up to the scales, I saw their fish and I knew that they had to be in 11th place either here nor there. I'm looking at them put the fish in the basket and I'm like, okay, four pounder, four pounder, four pounders. I'm like, all right, 20 pounds. I said they probably got it.

[Jason Fisher]

Boat number 12. We got chase Kaminski, Jake Runyon. Weighing a big fish. Our current team of the year race leaders. Wayne in a big fish, seven, nine, zero. Wayne and big fish, seven, nine zero. Locking it in. Seven, nine, zero. Weighing in five.

[Mike Miller]

Well, when they put the first fish on the scale, the big fish, in my gut, there's something. No way. There is no way that's an eight pound fish.

[Jason Fisher]

I gotta tell you, you gotta beat 16 some pounds.

[Mike Miller]

And then when they put the other fish, so five total on the scale, and it was like 33 and some change.

[Jason Fisher]

33.91. 33.91. Your new leaders locking it in. Team of the year, definitely team of the year champions. Round of applause. Chase Kaminsky, Jake Runyon.

[Narrator]

Mike Miller is watching all of this from the lawn.

[Unnamed Fisherman]

Just like, no way. Like, there's just like, looking at them. You can just look at these fish, and you can just tell that these fish weren't the size that they were supposed to be.

[Narrator]

Jason, who weighs hundreds of walleyes every.

[Mike Miller]

Month, knows that you need almost a seven pound average. They just didn't have seven pound fish. So I said, I want to take a look at them.

[Unnamed Fisherman]

And now there's grumblings in the crowd. And then they come off a stage and I say, hey, Jake, let me see that bag of fish. And he ignored me. I'm like, jake, Jake, let me see that bag of fish. And he walks over to me. Him and Chase walk over to me, and he opens the bag up like three inches just so I could peek in there. And I look and I see that these fish are not seven pound fish. They're four and five pound fish. So I go to reach my hand in there and grab one, and he snatches the bag away from me, you know, and he's like, f you, Mike. And Chase is going off about, like, how he wants to kick my butt. Just like some high school stuff, you know. So everybody sees this. What's going on? You can see Jason, the tournament director, up on stage looking at us and seeing what was happening. And then that's when he told them, hey, come here. I want to see those fish. And Chase ran to his truck.

[Sean Flynn]

He left Jake holding the bag, literally a bag of walleye.

[Mike Miller]

Just, like, the fear in their face, you know what I'm saying? Like, I could tell he was like, oh, I'm in trouble. It's about to hit the fan. I felt a hard object in the belly of the fish. I'm like, oh my God. There's typically not hard objects in the belly of a fish.

[Narrator]

What happened next was so weird, so shocking.

[Sean Flynn]

Lake Erie Walleye will never ever get more hits.

[Steve Buscemi]

Next week on Big Time, Chase and Jake face the music. This has been big Time. An Apple original podcast produced by Piece of Work Entertainment and Campside Media in association with Olive Productions. It's hosted by me, Steve Buscemi. This episode was reported and produced by Sean Flynn and Louise Jarvis Flynn. Our story editor is Audrey Quinn. Lane Rose is our showrunner and managing producer. Our production team includes Amy Padula, Rajeev Gola, Morgan Jaffe and associate producer Dania Abdelamed. Fact checking by Gray Lanza. Sound design and mixing by Shawnee Aviram. Our theme was written by Nicholas Principe and Peter Silberman of Spatial Relations. Production help from Matt. Campside Media's executive producers are Josh Dean, Vanessa Grigoriadis, Adam Hoff and Matt Sher. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.