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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see what you can save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Coca Cola for the big for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers for the optimists, Pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.
- [00:58]
B
Hello club scouts, and welcome to week two of Big Friendsgiving right here on BCC. I'm your host, Michael McMillan. Absent this week is Riley Bray, who is out on the road being a musician. Happy Thanksgiving if you celebrate here in the United States. Or Happy Football Day if you watch football or Happy, happy Wicked for good week, right? I just saw the first one last night and I loved it. Can't wait to see can't wait to see part two.
- [01:31]
A
What's gonna happen?
- [01:32]
B
I mean, I think I know, but I've never felt more emotionally attached to the Wicked Witch of the West. So what we're doing this week is like last week we have a show from the BCC Friendiverse and last week we had my episode of High Strangeness hosted by Steve Burke. So we just felt it would be appropriate if this week we have Riley's episode of High Strangeness where they get into whether or not Riley has become less of a skeptic since starting the show and what it's like performing with Pussy Riot. So enjoy this episode of High Strangeness with Steve Berg and Riley Bray. And don't forget that for the month of November I part of the money that we get from sponsorships and premium subscriptions over on bcc.supercast.com will go to a very good cause to Midnight Mission right here in Los Angeles. And if you want brand new content, it's no better time to check us out over at BCC Clubhouse where you get three bonus episodes every month you get access to ad free episodes and monthly cosmic tracks from Riley Brace. So check all of that out@bcc.supercast.com and make sure that part of your monthly plan pledge goes to a good cause this holiday season. Okay everyone, we'll be back next week for the kickoff of Declassified December. Until then, good night. Go get regressed and enjoy this episode of High Strangeness hosted by Steve Berg, starring our very own Riley Bray.
- [03:09]
C
Do you think UFOs, the paranormal, weird history, cryptozoology and outsider art are pretty darn cool? Then you're in in the right place. Welcome to High Strangeness with your host, Steve Berg. Well hello folks. Welcome to another episode of High Strangeness. Today I've got my good buddy Riley Brayan. You know him from the Bigfoot Collector's Club. You might know him from this wonderful band called Spindrift. And, and you've probably heard of this excellent important band called Pussy Wright, who he has been touring with recently. Riley, how are you?
- [03:53]
A
Hey Steve. Very good. Thanks for having me, man.
- [03:56]
C
Oh, thank you for being here, friend. You know, before we get into the zillions of questions I have for you, I'd like to know what are you listening to these days? What's exciting you? What are you cranking up?
- [04:08]
A
To be honest, I'm listening to like samples that have been crushed through this program I'm working on. Um, so I haven't really been listening to a ton of music. I've been listening to my free time has been. I've gotten into AI guided programming.
- [04:23]
C
Tell me about this.
- [04:25]
A
So basically where, where to start? I have no formal programming background whatsoever. I've like tinkered around with HTML. I have like some like very, very cursory knowledge of like sort of like the formatting and structure but with the new GPT models that are trained for Python programming I've been like self teaching programming. This is like my hobby and I've been working on these like audio programs. So like basically this program that I've been working on lately is like inspired by like a Tascam like four track cassette and like how people use them for ambient music. And then they turn the, the tape speed manipulation knob and like get these warbling sounds. So I've been working on this player that finally works that's like a four track player and you can adjust the sample rate with a slider.
- [05:17]
C
Really? Yes.
- [05:18]
A
You can start stacking up these loops and then just like, like. And also take like something that's at 44.1and resample it at like 96. This is for my nerds out there. Yeah, and so just like crunch it like way down. So I've just been making these like ambient, abstract, evolving music pieces and then I just let them play.
- [05:35]
C
Oh, that's fantastic though because I'll tell you what, I'm, I'm like in. They're like ambient music I feel like has been around for a long Time, but, like, it is now become, like, a. A genre that's taken seriously that I find now is, like, necessary in my life. Like, yeah, there are times where I don't want to hear words, and I just want to be in an atmosphere, in a vibe, and that's what ambient music does for me.
- [05:58]
A
Yeah, totally. And so then, to properly answer your question, I'd say I've been listening to Tim Hecker a good bit lately. Okay. He's a great ambient musician. I, like, really recommend. I love, love, love his music. I'm right down right now, but, yeah, man, ambient music is like having a. A renaissance, I think, because there's so much noise in the world, and sometimes. Yeah, you just want to relax. I went through a thing for, like, years where I didn't want to hear music with words, and I think that's what sent me down this path, and I was just like. I just want, like. Just something to, like, sort of wrap me in sound, you know?
- [06:28]
C
Yeah, I hear you because it's comforting. And I. I do a lot of work at night, and I do not like to work in complete silence, and I can't have distracting music, so.
- [06:38]
A
Exactly.
- [06:38]
C
I'll even just sometimes go on YouTube and just say, like, scary forest ambient music.
- [06:44]
A
I love that. Cool.
- [06:46]
C
So you can kind of like, put the ambience to your mood or whatever you're working on, and I find that just wonderful.
- [06:53]
A
Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's a big part of, like, why I make music and what. What I want to do with it.
- [06:59]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this, like, because I know you're a. You're a multi instrumentalist, right? Like, yeah, I know you play guitar. Like, I watched a wonderful video that I would love to post of Riley playing with Spindrift, which we're gonna get into later. I. It's so funny because I love this band and.
- [07:19]
A
You do.
- [07:19]
C
I didn't know Riley was it until I was actually on your podcast. Like, wait.
- [07:25]
A
I love connecting those dots.
- [07:27]
C
Yeah, it is. It's such a. Well, you know what? Actually, I want to. You know what? I'm sorry. I get so excited, but I love it. Tell me about Spin Drift in your time with them, because Spindrift folks, if you've never heard of them, they're really, like, you know, I'll let you describe them, but this is how. They're very cinematic, and it's like psychedelic spaghetti western music, and it is so beautiful. Talk about, like, a band that really takes you somewhere, you know? Like, there's Like a narrative. There's a narrative playing in my head when I was doing a Spin Drift record.
- [08:00]
A
Yeah, I think that's very much the intention, and that's how I was a fan of the band before I joined. That's. This goes way back when I was living in the Bay Area and I was playing in this sort of heavy psych rock band called Fauna Valletta. And we opened for Spindrift, and I was like, what is this? I've never seen a band do this. This rules so hard. And so we ended up becoming friends. They ended up staying in my house that night. We ended up recording stuff that many years later came out on one of the records. And I just became friends with KP and the whole gang. And I was working mostly as an audio engineer back then, so I started working with them on that side. And I was like. I produced some film scores and I guessed it on some tracks. My first, like, recording with Spindrift is me playing sitar on Classic Soundtracks Volume one. I think this track's called Space Vixens maybe. I don't remember.
- [08:49]
C
She played the sitar. We're gonna put a pin in next. I'm gonna want to talk about that.
- [08:53]
A
There's a. There's a hilarious picture of me in the studio just looking like the, you know, early 2000s, like Ravi Shankar cosplay, buddy.
- [09:02]
C
That's good. That. That is stuff right there. That is. That's a killer. That's a legend. Look right there.
- [09:08]
A
It was. It was a great. I was so excited that they asked me to play on that record.
- [09:11]
C
Oh, yes.
- [09:11]
A
But then, so, yeah, I just, like, I was around and we were doing shows and then I had a band called Golden Ghosts and we did a couple tours opening for Spindrift. That band came and went and I just kept working with them over the years. And then eventually KP asked me to join because Henry, the old double neck player. The double neck, by the way, if you don't know the band, is a custom built guitar. That's a baritone guitar, neck on top, so that's tuned to low B and then a short scale bass on the bottom. So you've got two. What guitars on you? And I'm constantly switching between. Because the baritone is like really big for this whole spaghetti western sound.
- [09:42]
C
Right? Sure, sure.
- [09:44]
A
So that and sidebar. That guitar was stolen from me twice. Oh, no. And twice it came back to me.
- [09:54]
B
What?
- [09:54]
A
Yes. There was a police sting involved, actually. Both times. It's such a recognizable guitar that people steal it. And Then they try to sell it. And like the first time a fan in the UK emailed me and was like, I found your guitar. And we, we got. So that's like. It just adds to sort of this like cowboy western lore of the band. Yeah. But so, yeah, so I've. I toured in Spindra for. I've been like on and off with that band for like a decade, really like producing and touring. And I left for a while. I came back. It's kind of one of those bands where there's a. There's a big sort of orbit of musicians that are all part of it. So. Yeah, you can kind of come and go if you need.
- [10:35]
C
Yeah.
- [10:36]
A
But I did a lot of time in the band for sure.
- [10:39]
C
Right. And they haven't. It's been a minute since they, you know, y' all have released anything.
- [10:43]
A
Yeah.
- [10:44]
C
Is there any plan for a future record, do you think?
- [10:46]
A
It's definitely within the realm of possibility. We're. It kind of like to be honest, we. We put out classic soundtracks. Volume three, Volume two is missing.
- [10:55]
C
Right.
- [10:56]
A
And that was like a really exciting record. It was on Alternative Tentacles, which is by Afraid label. And Jello co produced it, which also that like with me, which was like a mind blowing moment.
- [11:06]
C
I can't imagine that. Riley, would you like a Coca Cola?
- [11:12]
A
Like, yeah. And it was. He was remote. Like this is before Pandemic, but he was producing remote, but he stays up all night. So we would like work in the studio till like three in the morning and then we'd send him the day's work and then he'd get back to us at like 3:30 with like. He would. He would hand write notes, take a photo and email it to us. And he did not pull punches. He'd be like, you ruined this track. Just go back to the beginning, start again. Like. But he was right. He was always right every time.
- [11:41]
C
Right.
- [11:42]
A
I love that record. I think it's. It's one of my favorite Spindrift records. But that came out, it was like just rolling out. Like we were on tour. And then that Friday the 13th, the pandemic hit. We played Reno, canceled the rest of the tour, scrambled home. And then they're like, our warehouse got robbed a year later. And it was just like the band just kept getting like hit and we just kind of like stepped back for a bit.
- [12:06]
C
Yeah.
- [12:06]
A
And KP is just like doing his thing, but I mean, who knows what will. What will come next? But yeah, there haven't really been Spindrift shows for a While it was a very heavy touring band for a while.
- [12:17]
C
Yeah.
- [12:17]
A
Just like always on the road, but so it's kind of like. It's simmering right now, you know.
- [12:22]
C
But, yeah, that was it. I'm glad there wasn't, like, a hard end to it, because. Oh, no, not at all. I. I don't. I was trying to think. Because a lot of my early 2000s are a little bit hazy in Los Angeles. I mean, you know. Yeah. You know, and I. But I. A lot of it was because I saw so much music and I was really into the psychedelic scene in la Spaceland a lot, where a lot of the bands. And I was. I'm like, did I see Spindrift play at Spaceland? I very well might have.
- [12:52]
A
Probably. Probably. Man, that was. What a. What a great era of music, that whole cycroxine. Oh. Like, sort of like late 2000s. Into the odds.
- [13:01]
C
Well, let's segue into that, because I remember, like, how I kind of got into it is I was a massive. Still am. I mean, like, you know, absolutely obsessive Brian Jonestown Massacre fan.
- [13:11]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [13:12]
C
And that's how I heard about Spindrift is because, like, Anton wasn't doing an interview and he was talking about all the bands he hated, and then he talked about, like, a couple bands. He's like, but I also like the sound carriers Spindrift and named, like, a couple bands. And I was like, well, I'm buying those. I'm buying those. And I. I went to Amoeba and bought a Spindrift record. And I was like, oh, my God, I love it, too.
- [13:31]
A
Yeah, KP was a merch guy, I think, for bjm. And then, like, one show, for some reason, Joel couldn't do it, and KP filled it on tambourine. I think that's the legend. I'm not 100 sure, but I'm pretty sure that's the story. But, yeah, he's been in and around that band, and there. There have been members from BJM in Spin Drift as well. And it's like it was all kind of part of that scene. Like.
- [13:54]
C
Right.
- [13:54]
A
I felt like kind of like the. Like. Because, like, KP's, like, a bit older than me, so, like, I was like the kind of like, whoa. This is like, what the cool kids are up to. Right?
- [14:01]
C
I mean, you must have been kind of a little bit of a youngster in that scene, I would imagine, you know, but you were in it. I mean, can you talk about, like, the psych scene? And like what. Like some of the venues that were being. I guess I'm more like focused on Los Angeles and maybe the Bay Area, because I know like, it seemed like a lot of it started in the Bay Area, but then moved to LA like in the late 90s.
- [14:22]
A
Well, I was in the Bay Area psych scene in that era because I went to UC Berkeley to go to college and then I stuck around the Bay Area and I was like. I was playing a lot in the punk scene in the Bay Area too. So like, I definitely got to do like my Gilman show. And yeah, a lot of like cool punk houses in Oakland. That was also just like a really cool era of like punk rock in.
- [14:41]
C
Right.
- [14:42]
A
But that sort of like transitioned. But I. I joined this band, Fauna Valetta, that's like. This honestly is probably the best band I've ever been in. And the record came out like before streaming. We keep talking about re releasing it. It is such a good record. Oh man, it. It does. It's like on some CDs. It doesn't exist, but I. I gotta re release that. But do you.
- [15:00]
C
You have an MP3 version of it?
- [15:01]
A
Yeah, I'll send it to you.
- [15:02]
C
Please, please, please. I won't share it, but yes, please.
- [15:05]
A
It's. It's a man. This guy Alan Branborg that was like the main songwriter. He was just like brilliant, like, and just like an Iggy Pop level from man. He was incredible. But I mean he's still like alive. We just don't do the band right. But anyways, I was playing in that band and like I remember playing with like Sleepy Sun. They were a great barrier band. Darker. My Love was a cool one. The Asteroid Number Four.
- [15:28]
C
Oh yeah. Yeah, I still listen to them.
- [15:31]
A
Yeah, they're still going.
- [15:32]
C
They're still. They're really good.
- [15:33]
A
Yeah, Very, very good. And like, I mean, some of the most fun shows is like we would go to like this. There's this town outside the barrier called Bolinas and there's like this bar there that I can't remember the name of. But it's like doing shows like that and like the folk. Yeah. Stuff of that era. Yeah, they. They were a concert promoter and they did a bunch of shows in like Big Sur.
- [15:55]
C
Yep, I've been to a couple. Yeah.
- [15:56]
A
Yeah. Okay, cool.
- [15:57]
C
You know, the greatest shows. I mean, honestly, you're like watching a small concert and like the redwoods.
- [16:03]
A
Yes. Yeah. So like these like truly like very sort of like psychedelic like where the whole environment is this thing and everyone's There together. And it's just. I just. It was a very magical time. A lot of those bands I thought maybe would continue and get bigger. We all kind of thought this whole thing was about to blow up. But then it just turned out that. I remember, like, going back to San Francisco after I left, when it started getting expensive and I felt like the scene was drying up and I came down and moved down to la, but, like, I went back up there and I went to Cafe Du Nord, which was like a very legendary venue for, like, going way back. And there was a sign out front that's. There was like the. The, like, chalkboard that they used to write the bands that were playing on. And it said champagne and oysters. And I was like, haven't heard of that, man.
- [16:49]
C
Gone with the Dave.
- [16:50]
A
Yeah, exactly. So I was like. That was like. That really kind of summed it up for me. I was like, well, I guess I left at the right time. This. This has sailed.
- [16:58]
C
They're handing out oysters and champagne instead of, like, acid and be all right, you know, like, basically.
- [17:04]
A
Yeah, that.
- [17:05]
C
Yeah, you know, it's. It's the psych. The psych scene, you know, Something I love. I mean, I love the music. I still. It's still like the sub genre of music that I probably listened to most, even today. But there was, like, this aesthetic aspect that was really appealing to me. Where you would go to spaceland, like, in 2002 or 2003, and there'd be a lot of stinky, dirty denim PBRs. People were still smoking cigs back then.
- [17:33]
A
Yeah.
- [17:33]
C
And like, it was a hard, partying kind of, like, it was really wild. And, like, there was like a sense of, like, safe, Ish. Anarchy.
- [17:42]
A
Yeah, no, I know what you mean. It was like. It was a very rock and roll.
- [17:46]
C
Yeah, it was very. It was almost the last vestige, kind of in a way of like, American rock and roll life, I think, in.
- [17:53]
A
A lot of ways. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely still, like, generations coming up that are, like, enamored with the. The spirit of freedom and rebellion of the whole. Yeah, they're doing it. But, I mean, times have changed as far as being in a band and making it in a band. And it's just like it's increasingly hard. So people just sort of do it because they love it. Which also does create great art. But for sure, it would be nice if great art could also, you know, make people living.
- [18:18]
C
Well. I have this weird theory, Riley, that in the last, you know, 10 years in movies, TVs and for sure, music is the. Has been hit the hardest, but, like, they're demonetizing artists, and I feel that artists need to be able to do what they're doing full time, and I'm saying they have to make millions of dollars. But when you decrease the value of art in society, I think you get the situation we're in right now.
- [18:44]
A
Yeah. I was gonna say, you see the results in real time.
- [18:47]
C
Yeah.
- [18:47]
A
I mean, it's. You know, it's funny, like, try, like, calling yourself an artist or trying to make a life as an artist because, like, to one degree, it feels, like, very frivolous, or it's like, I should just, like, do something and, like, make some sort of more meaningful direct contribution. But on the other hand, like.
- [19:05]
C
Hold on, hold on. I lost you there for a second.
- [19:07]
A
Oh, am I still here? You there? Yeah, I'm here.
- [19:10]
C
Oh, okay.
- [19:10]
A
Oh. Trying to reconnect. Make sure you have a stable Internet connection. I do have a. I got you.
- [19:16]
C
I got you now. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I can. You're a little fuzzy on visually, but I can hear you.
- [19:21]
A
Okay, cool. Do you prefer to stop and start a new clip, or do you want.
- [19:26]
C
Yeah, I'll edit it out. Yeah. Well, I might lie.
- [19:28]
A
Sausage gets made. Yeah.
- [19:30]
C
Sometimes I'd like to leave all the juice in, you know? Well, there you go.
- [19:33]
A
I mean, there's me, like, having the sort of pretentious waxing poetic about the life of the artist, and it's like, nah, let's just skip that point.
- [19:39]
C
No, no, no, no, no. But I. I was like. You were about to say something very interesting, and. And, please, like.
- [19:46]
A
Well, I just, you know, it is, like, I do try to remind myself, like, and also, that's the. You're not an artist if you're not working and you're not, like, in the practice, and you're doing it, like, regularly, and that's. That's when you can kick yourself and be like, come on, dude. Like, what are you doing? But, you know, I. I do think it brings a real value to the world, even if you're not, like, you don't end up being Michelangelo or whatever.
- [20:08]
B
Right.
- [20:09]
A
You know, I. I think it's. If you're drawn to it, I think I. I do think it's a worthy and important thing to pursue.
- [20:16]
C
Oh, I. I absolutely do. And, you know, I mean, even going back to, like, you know, the Greek time, you know, ancient, like, you know, man, it's like, they really lifted artists up in society and protected them, and they weren't Always like, I think, you know, I think when people get mad at, like, mainstream artists, they're like, well, God, they're like bazillionaires and they're. You know, I'm like, that is not even like,.002% of artists out there. Yeah. It's hand to mouth for most of us.
- [20:43]
A
Yeah. I mean, totally. I mean, the one statistic that I've been thinking I can't get out of my head lately is that the CEO of Spotify is more wealthy than any musician in the history of ever. And that seems off.
- [20:54]
C
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
- [20:58]
A
It's like, huh, I feel like we're doing this wrong.
- [21:01]
C
Yeah. Why are we valuing CEOs more than the people who are actually giving us the. The beautiful stuff? I don't. I don't get it. And I mean, like, you know, I. Art is like everything to me. It's like, you know why I wake up, you know, not just to create it, but to consume it. Like, I. More than anything, more than anything, I would consider myself like, a appreciator of art. Even more than, like, because I'm an actor. I mean, while that's an art, you know, I'm a painting or anything like that, I'm just. I'm just. I'm just a professional clown, you know, like.
- [21:33]
A
Well, you know, I'm very enamored by the. The skills of you professional clowns.
- [21:38]
C
Thanks, man.
- [21:38]
A
Yeah.
- [21:40]
C
This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. Upcoming comedy Ella McKay. From Academy Award winning writer director James L. Brooks. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, an idealistic young woman who juggles family and work in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all star cast including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack loudon, Kumail Nanjani, Iowa Debris. Julie Kafner. With Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay. In theaters December 12th.
- [22:10]
A
Hi, I'm here to pick up my son, Milo. There's no Milo here. Who picked up my son from school? Streaming only on Pico.
- [22:20]
C
I'm going to need the name of.
- [22:21]
A
Everyone that could have a connection. You don't understand. It was just the five of us. So this was all planned. What are you gonna do? I will do whatever it takes to get my son back. I honestly didn't see this coming. These nice people killing each other. All her fault. A new series streaming now only on Peacock.
- [22:40]
C
But, you know, back to the psych rock scene, if you don't mind. You know, I know Spaceland closed down in some of the venues that the psych scene was kind of associated with. Did start closing down or shifting. What. What has been the evolution of the psych scene? Like in la? I mean, like, what is it like today? Because I'm pretty out of touch and I don't live there anymore.
- [23:03]
A
That's a good question. You know, it's moved. There's like, there's other venues that are cool. There's still definitely stuff happening. I feel like a lot of people are starting to explore electronic music a good bit and. And ambient music. And I feel like to a degree there was like a nostalgia aspect to the. That scene that like, so started in the 90s and ran through the odds, definitely. Whereas like a very kind of like we're all dressing like we're in the 70s and.
- [23:31]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [23:31]
A
Having a good old sort of psych rock cosplay party, but. Which was great.
- [23:36]
C
Yeah.
- [23:36]
A
But I feel like that is started to sort of fade and people are maybe being a little more futurist about it in a way. But I also just think that, you know, it's like with any one of these scenes that kind of like runs its course and then it just like splinters into just like so many micro genres and then everything kind of overlaps and.
- [23:56]
C
Yep.
- [23:57]
A
You know, so I. I think that. That. But also, you know, I. I feel like I'm getting older and maybe I'm not aware of some of like the cool things that are happening and like, I just don't even know where these things are now. Right. It's definitely possible. But, you know, there's definitely. There's still great bands. I think, like, it's a shame that the Desert Days festival got canceled because I feel like that is one of the sort of, like, it's like a who's who of like the current Cycroc scene.
- [24:28]
C
Yes.
- [24:28]
A
So if you look at that lineup, the one that was hopefully gonna happen, and the ones of previous years, you can see a pretty good map of this. It's still very strong rock and roll, cyc rock scene. Right. There's a lot of like, really cool bands and then there's like, you've got your mainstays, like the Black Angels.
- [24:47]
C
Yeah, sure.
- [24:48]
A
Like, I mean, I would say, like the OCS are part of that.
- [24:51]
C
Yeah, definitely.
- [24:52]
A
The clams.
- [24:53]
C
Like, definitely the night beats. Although for sure, I'm very into the night beats lately.
- [24:57]
A
I shot. I shot their. Their levitation session. The one they did in the desert. Yeah. With a bunch of friends. It was fun.
- [25:05]
C
I've watched it with on YouTube. They're like, literally playing in a desert, right?
- [25:08]
A
Yeah. Yeah. We dragged out a. A tape machine and, like, a full analog studio. We cut the whole thing to tape. Friend Ian Dewar did the sound. He got a great shout out. Love Magnet Ry.
- [25:19]
C
I love that. I mean, like, no joke. I've watched that a few times. It's my favorite. I love the Night Beats. It's my favorite live thing that they have out.
- [25:26]
A
Oh, that's so cool.
- [25:27]
C
Yeah, it's beautiful.
- [25:29]
A
Yeah, I shot that with a couple people. Who was the director? I can't even remember his name, but he was good. Wow. It was, like, friend of a friend. This guy was directing it, and I was like, well, I have a bunch of cameras. We can put this thing together. And. And Ian, my buddy who was doing the sound, he was. He called me into it, and it was. Man, it was a fun day. Danny is a ledge. That guy's awesome.
- [25:50]
C
Yeah, he. I mean, like, to me, he's, like, one of my favorite songwriters. The so currently go. I mean, he's. And you know what? Like, while, like, he's doing something with the sound that's, like, a little bit different. It's familiar sounding, but, like, man, I just haven't heard anyone play the guitar like him.
- [26:08]
A
Totally.
- [26:09]
C
He is unthinkably good. I saw him one time, like, walking around Los Feedless smoking a cigarette, and I, like, went to go pull my car over and just say, man, like, you're so good, dude. But, like, I was not gonna bother him.
- [26:20]
A
Yeah, I hear you. Also, Mikey Whiteside. I don't know if you know that guy. He's a musician who's been in a bunch of stuff, but he was playing in Night Beats in that era. I don't know if he still does, but, man, that guy is just a beast. He's so good.
- [26:31]
C
Oh, man. I've never gone to one of those, like, official Levitation Festivals, but that is, like, high on my list. On the list for me.
- [26:39]
A
My w. Yeah, my. My favorite top 5 spindrift shows was definitely levitation 2013, I want to say.
- [26:48]
C
Oh, wow.
- [26:49]
A
We played on one of the outdoor stages. The sun was going down. It was one of the bigger crowds. We'd play, too. People, like, just got it right off the bat. We're just like, this is like. I think that whole set's on YouTube. I've got, like, platinum blonde hair.
- [27:00]
C
Oh, dude, I'm gonna watch that tonight. That's amazing.
- [27:03]
A
That was a fun one. Yeah.
- [27:04]
C
I can't imagine. So the Levitation Festival for y' all who don't know about it is, like, it's. I, to my knowledge, the biggest, like, get together of psychedelic music and psychedelic rock and roll in the world. And they play in different places. Austin is a place they play in a lot and they play in Europe, right?
- [27:24]
A
Yeah, they. I think they have a couple in Europe now.
- [27:26]
C
Oh, God. It sounds like a. Is it like a two day thing?
- [27:29]
A
Well, it's changed over the years because there was that the year after we played, we just went to hang out and there was like a terrible storm. And the venue, Venue, it's outdoors, but the venue space, like, flooded and they had to cancel it. And then that was the year that they moved it into, like, venues all over Austin.
- [27:47]
C
Right.
- [27:47]
A
And I think that's how they do it now. I'm not sure where they're at with it, but, I mean, Levitation is like another. If you're just like, looking to, like, dive in, like, just look at what they've done and who they've worked with, it's like a hoot.
- [28:00]
C
I follow them on Instagram and that's honestly how I get my new psych rack bands.
- [28:04]
A
Perfect is.
- [28:05]
C
I'm like, oh, they're playing on Levitation. They're definitely worth my time.
- [28:07]
A
It's like a seal of approval.
- [28:09]
C
It kind of is to me. Like, I'll at least give their album like a full shot. And the hit rate is really high. Like, you know.
- [28:18]
A
Definitely. Yeah.
- [28:18]
C
It's so good.
- [28:19]
A
Some smart, cool people that are. Yeah.
- [28:21]
C
I did not know you. Wow. First off, I. I'm like, kind of floored. You shot that video. I'm gonna. If you don't mind, I'd love to put a link.
- [28:27]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [28:27]
C
And it shows because this is.
- [28:29]
A
It wasn't just me. It was like a team.
- [28:31]
C
Right, right, right. It's always a team when you shoot anything. But like, that you were a part of this. I mean, it is, to me, a legendary piece of.
- [28:38]
A
I love that one. It came out so good.
- [28:40]
C
It sounds beautiful. And they played perfectly.
- [28:44]
A
A funny story about that one is we got there to the location in like the middle of the desert, right? And then we looked around and we were like, wait, did you bring the monitor wedges? Ian was like, I thought you brought the monitor, which is like, dude, you're audio. I' you break the monitor wedge. He's like, yeah, but you do live sound. I was like, yeah, but what are we doing? So we like, literally had to. Someone scrambled back out of the desert to the nearest guitar center and we Bought the cheapest wedges we could find and scrambled back to the location and we still got the whole thing done. Oh, my God. That was a. That was a crazy moment.
- [29:17]
C
Oh, what a beautiful moment, though. I love that.
- [29:21]
A
That's funny.
- [29:22]
C
Let me ask you, because you have been, and I'm not exactly sure how long, but it seems like for a little bit now because I follow you on the Instagram, but you've been playing with pussy write. And I feel like most of the listeners know who pussy. Right. Is. Right is. I mean, I'll let you describe it actually.
- [29:39]
A
Well, yeah, so I play. To be, you know, specific, I play in a version of Riot that's called Riot Siberia. It's like an offshoot. But Riot is. I, I think what you're thinking it is. It's Nadia Tola Konikova.
- [29:53]
C
Yeah.
- [29:53]
A
She's a Russian feminist activist. She was arrested for her performance at the cathedral in Moscow. And it was big international news. Like the, the kind of thing when I like explaining it to, like, you know, my parents, friends or something. Like it's that thing you saw on CNN with the girls with the balaclavas and they're like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that. It's that. But I started working with Nadia on the film side. I. I came into DP her art film Putin's Ashes, which was such an honor.
- [30:26]
C
I've seen that. Oh, my God. I. Dude, that's so amazing.
- [30:31]
A
I mean, I. Dude, me too. I was like, yeah, that's how I felt. I was like, I can't believe I get to do this. But she's just like a visionary and just, she's. She's incredible. She's. She's exactly what you think she is. And so we, we filmed that and it went really well and we started becoming friends. She also is now married to one of my, like, very dear friends. That's how I got sort of brought into the whole world. So we shot that. She. She really liked the way it came out, so we started doing other things. We did another art film, protest action called God Save Abortion, where we inflated a, like a 12 foot vagina on the State House capitol there, where they were, you know, outlawing abortion. This was Indiana. Yeah. And we had a bunch of. A bunch of women come in sort of the typical Pussy Riot gear, and we just shot this art film on the steps. It was. She. Nadia's a person who gets my, like, blood pumping, where I'm just like, okay, I guess we're doing this. It's like Six in the morning and we're like stepping out to the Supreme Court steps, like, okay, but we did it. We pulled it off. Everything was fine. It was a beautiful piece. It raised a lot of attention, it got a lot of press. And, you know, she's. She's really great at that. Sort of finding like clever ways that are intense and tough, but also still have a lot of humor and levity to them.
- [31:52]
C
Right, right. And there's a real sense of like parody too.
- [31:56]
A
Yeah.
- [31:57]
C
That I find. So I feel like when parody is done very smart and in an artful way, it is very powerful and it gets a message across really well.
- [32:06]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. And she is just a master of that.
- [32:09]
C
Yeah.
- [32:09]
A
So, yeah. So, you know, we did that and we were working on some other film projects and then she got this idea that she wanted to do sort of a new, very different version of Riot that Hurt completely changed from. She's not. She's still doing the music that she has been releasing, but we're doing this other thing that's totally different. It's basically noise music. So it's. It's very loud and it's very aggressive and it's very abstract. And we're sort of. It's more like. Rather than sort of like taking music and making it noisy, we're making noise and then carving music back out of it.
- [32:41]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [32:42]
A
And so I've got this. My what I play in that band is just a tray of just knobs and switches. So it's a bunch of sort of these like weird synthesizers that I've collected from like. There's like one by a company called jmts. It's like a guy in Japan who builds these like esoteric brutalist silver box. And then. Oh, I've got a few things from Soma, which is this guy Vlad. I. I think he might be out of Russia or was originally out of Russia, but he builds these like a bizarre, you know, abstract synthesizers and it's all routed through all sorts of stuff. And then funny enough, I actually use a Rode podcast mixer as my main live mixer just because I like the feeling of the faders a lot. And I need like a good smooth fader for live manipulation. And so, yes, it's a. It's Nadia and myself and another musician named Max Lawton who he. He works with Nadia as a translator. He speaks like seven languages and he works as a translator of literature and he's an author. He's just like this very, very smart, very cool guy and he's super versed. In noise music and sort of all this like, really obscure stuff. And then John Caldwell, her husband, is a part of the band. He doesn't perform in the band, but he's like. He's like our Rick Rubin.
- [33:55]
C
He's like a part of the band Spiritual Advisor.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. And also, like Maker of Things Happening. Like, he's just very good at that. So, yeah, it's the four of us doing this and we've done only a handful of shows. We're not going to treat this like a normal band. Like, we're not just going to go kind of hit the road. But we've done some pretty amazing shows. We've done. Our very first sort of like, preview show was in like, the mall basement of the World Trade center and like a little like, sort of like commerce space. It was weird that it's turned into a gallery. It was like, kind of perfect. David Byrne introduced the project. Whoa. Which was like a very, like, pinch me moment of like, is this real?
- [34:38]
C
Life is a weird dream, isn't it?
- [34:41]
A
Yeah, yeah. And that was so that was like sort of our, you know, our preview. And then we went to Europe and did a show at a museum in Lintz. And then because of that show, we got invited to do a show at the Neue National Gallery in Berlin because we were all just sort of still there. And the. The music museum director, Klaus, is a friend of Naughty. Has been following her for a while and he's like, you're here, let's have this opportunity. So we got to play in, like, like, truly one of the most respected, like, art institutions in Europe, which was unbelievable, mind blowing. And they set us up on the steps there and kind of let Nadia go for it. So this was all put together in a week. And so she, like, she designed these banners that were like these big pink banners. And they said, love conquers fear, like love conqueror sphere on three banners, which is a Navaln quote. And we got a bunch. Or she and John really got a bunch of. I just handle the knobs and the switches. Got a bunch of volunteers. I think we had like 50 something women and female identifying people in sort of the right garb, making this flying V formation. And they set us up with a massive pa and there were. It's unclear, but the estimates have been between three and 5,000 people showed up for this thing. And like, the police designated it a, like a protest, not like a concert. Like, it was. So it's huge police presence and just thousands of people and we're doing. This is Our, you know, third official show. Right. Like, we had a women on the roof putting out, letting off these pink smoke signal things. And it started dumping rain while we were playing. Just dumping rain. So these people came over and they were holding a tarp over my sins. I'm like, under this tarp just making just this ungodly racket. It is like, truly like, it's. It's a show to be experienced. It's really.
- [36:33]
C
Yeah.
- [36:33]
A
It's unlike anything I've ever done.
- [36:36]
C
It feels like a dream come true for me. I. I mean, look, I'm still putting on old Sonic Youth records, which I'm sure don't compare at all to what you're.
- [36:45]
A
But Sonic Youth is like. That's like. That's where it all started for me for sure. I saw them a bunch of times when I was young and that was like seeing what they did with sound and how they went from songs into space. I was just like, right, that's it. That's the thing.
- [36:58]
C
And it's. And it's very like. I feel like a lot of the noise music is super psychedelic. Kind of fits in with that whole psychedelic, you know, moniker.
- [37:05]
A
Yeah.
- [37:06]
C
But like. Yeah. That no wave scene in the 80s in New York is one of the most important thing. It's. I feel like it hasn't been documented anywhere as much as I would want it to be. Because it's such an important time.
- [37:20]
A
Yeah.
- [37:20]
C
In music, I think.
- [37:22]
A
Definitely.
- [37:22]
C
Yeah.
- [37:22]
A
And there was a lot of like. Kind of like. Like Glenn Branca and like that whole part of the scene where there's like really like abstract sort of like art level, musical deconstruction, like the guitar orchestra and all that kind of stuff as a very cool time.
- [37:36]
C
Yeah. And even how they performed, like they were like, not necessarily Sonic Youth, but there was a lot of like performance are being fused with this new kind of noise. And I feel like to a certain degree, you know, maybe I'm misinterpreting this. That are. I would definitely say there's a pretty heavy element of performance art.
- [37:54]
A
Oh, definitely. I mean, the. The band is billed as. It's not a band, it's a performance art noise project, basically. So it's like. It's very. It's very, very strongly rooted in performance art. And it is that before it is like a band per se. So most of the shows are like. We just did our first club show in New York, but then we went up and did like an arts festival in Hudson. But like a lot of our show, they're Going to be at galleries, they're going to be at museums.
- [38:21]
C
Amazing.
- [38:22]
A
They're going to be in non traditional venue spaces. We will do some venue shows because sometimes it's nice to not have to build an entire venue to do a show.
- [38:29]
C
Slide in there and do your thing.
- [38:31]
A
Yeah, but it's like we're really approaching it from a performance art angle. And like, we've got a new project brewing that I can't talk about. But it's. I'm really excited about it. It's like very, very strongly. Yeah, but I mean, the. On the lighter side of that, like, the, the activism and like the message is like inseparable from riot. It's like it's not just like a band for a band's sake. Nadia has always said she's like, I'm not a musician, I'm an artist. Yeah, I mean, she's a great musician, but.
- [39:00]
C
Yeah, surely.
- [39:01]
A
But like, she. That's how she views it. She is a performance artist and she's an activist, and that is what this is. And so I'm just like, truly, like, so honored to be a part of it. And I just like, trying to give it my all and give it everything I can. She comes up with an age, she's like, you know how to do this? I was like, nope, but I'll learn.
- [39:16]
C
Yeah, I love that kind of candor. Like, not really, but I will definitely learn because it's important.
- [39:24]
A
I mean, she'd rather hear that than me being like, of course was like, no, I have no idea. But give me two weeks and I'll be back to you. Right.
- [39:31]
C
You know, I one time, you know the, the taco shop in Echo park called Guisados?
- [39:38]
A
Oh, yeah, of course.
- [39:39]
C
Yeah. Great tacos. Some of the best in Los Angeles. And that's saying something, folks. But I one time was eating there by myself, so I would go there all the time and I saw Nadia in there with. I can't remember who she was with, but I was so starstruck.
- [39:52]
A
She has.
- [39:53]
C
She. Right. And I remember my tacos and kind of peripherally, like watching, I was like, oh, my God. My God, this is crazy.
- [39:59]
A
Like, yeah, I mean, yeah, the first few times I met her, I was definitely intimidated. Or she just. She has like a. A very strong presence in the room.
- [40:08]
C
You know, Undeniably so. Undeniably so. You know, I was thinking, and the messages were definitely different, but the only kind of comparison I can kind of think with pussy, right. Is Throbbing Gristle. I mean, they were an art project, you Know, like. And they were activists, you know, they're. I think they're. What. Their desires were a little bit different, but.
- [40:27]
A
Sure, yeah. But also, sonically, with what we're doing right now, somebody actually made that reference. Somebody came up to me to the show. I was like, dude, that was like, proper, like, throw me gristle. And I was like, that is high praise.
- [40:38]
C
That is high praise. I love thrombin gristle. I still put them on in psychic tv. Like, I find Genesis Peorage to be one of the most fascinating human beings who ever existed. Like, you know, problematic in certain ways, but, like, very interesting as, like, you know, a person.
- [40:53]
A
I mean, you definitely get into that, too. When you get into, like, noise music and black metal and, like, these, like, surely kind of like, on the fringes musical styles. You end up with some very on the fringes people. And I feel like. I also feel like. Like in the early, you know, early Pitchfork days, let's say, like, sure, people were. There wasn't as much coverage and people didn't know as much, and they were just, like, finding this music and then finding out, like, oh, these. Some of the people behind some of this stuff are, like, truly, like, terrible people.
- [41:24]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:25]
A
And that's why they make these, like, wretched sounds. So then there's this. This split where it's like, well, I want to make music that is, like, exploring these, like, really dark things, but I'm not a dark person and I don't want to support these dark people. And I'm not into this at all.
- [41:38]
C
Absolutely.
- [41:39]
A
So it's, you know, it's like. It's kind of like a weird, like, musical space. And, you know, I think we have gotten better at, you know, looking at the whole picture when we're about.
- [41:49]
C
Right.
- [41:49]
A
Like, there's the whole, like, separate the artist from the art idea. And, like, I understand that to a degree, but, like. Like, there's also, like, very, very clear lines.
- [42:00]
C
Yeah, yeah. Like, so, like, I. I grew up a big Smith fan and Morrissey fan, and I've now been able to just completely, like, say, like, I can't listen to Morris anymore. I'll listen to the Smith. But Morrissey is such a. Like, I feel like maybe he's got. Something happened in his brain. It broke or something because he's.
- [42:18]
A
I mean, we're living in brain breaking times.
- [42:26]
C
I've never heard anyone put it better than that. That is absolutely perfect. We. We certainly do, my friend. Well, right. I want to move on to some weird stuff, and I want to talk about one of my favorite podcasts in the entire world, the Bigfoot Collectors Club. Michael and Bryce and you. I mean, first off, I just want to say what nice gentleman the three of you are.
- [42:46]
A
Oh, thank you.
- [42:47]
C
The most inviting. Such is the most. One of the most fun shows to guest on. And I. I just love you guys. I love your show. It's so beautiful. And I. One thing I don't really know though, and I. When I had Michael and Bryce on, I forgot to ask, how did this show come about and how did your involvement come about? Minute question. Because you're not like. As far as I know, I want to like, put words in your mouth, but, like, you're not like a long, high strange enthusiast. This stuff is kind of newish to you, right?
- [43:18]
A
Yeah, in a lot of ways. Yeah. Like, I think my high strangeness education is like, you know, X files in the 90s.
- [43:25]
C
Right.
- [43:25]
A
Like many of my sort of age group that.
- [43:29]
C
Right.
- [43:29]
A
Like, I've always like, you know, and I've always loved the whole kind of like stoner alien aesthetic and all that kind of stuff, but I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't like fully into it. I just sort of liked the. The aesthetic of it and the world of it and the vibe.
- [43:43]
C
Me too.
- [43:45]
A
But. So, Mike, how did. Oh, yeah, okay. I was doing a podcast because I was running a little recording studio out of my house.
- [43:54]
C
Right.
- [43:54]
A
As like a side hustle. We were talking about.
- [43:57]
C
Yeah, you got to have like 20 now.
- [43:59]
A
You need some side hustles.
- [44:01]
C
Cool, cool. Country. So yay, capitalism. We love it.
- [44:06]
A
Yeah, I know, right? But so, yeah, I had that little side hustle going. I was doing just a, like a for hire recording studio and a friend of a friend from another going back to psych rock days, this band, Lumarians.
- [44:17]
C
Yeah, sure.
- [44:19]
A
One of my friends from that band is an engineer and he was like, I got this podcast thing. I can't do it. Like, can you pick it up? And I was like, yeah, definitely. And so it was Jen Kirkman doing a podcast for. Yeah, I mean, Jen, we call her the. The fairy godmother of the show because she is the reason she's so great.
- [44:35]
C
Yeah.
- [44:36]
A
So she was doing a podcast for Amazon about the holidays. Perfect. So I recorded like, I don't know, six episodes of that. And one of her guests also to bring wrap this all around yet again was Kim Gordon.
- [44:49]
C
Whoa. I know.
- [44:50]
A
So Kim Gordon came to my house, my studio, one of my all time heroes of all time.
- [44:56]
C
Cool.
- [44:56]
A
And I was really trying to just play it Cool. And. And she was like, it's a cool studio. I like it. And I was like, oh, my God.
- [45:07]
C
I would have been the same.
- [45:08]
A
I was really great.
- [45:09]
C
I was, yeah.
- [45:09]
A
I mean, she's like, just one of my heroes of all time. So, yeah. So I was doing. And then Michael ended up being one of Jen's guests. And so, you know, they did their episode, and he was like. He was also kind of looking this cool, cool little studio in here. And he, like, kind of hung around afterwards, and he was like, are you into, like, paranormal stuff? And I was like, I mean, yeah, like, yeah, kinda. Sure. I think it's cool.
- [45:33]
C
Yeah.
- [45:33]
A
And he's like, well, like a friend of mine, like, we're. We just started the podcast. They had just recorded their episode zero, but they couldn't figure out how to get two mics to work, so they.
- [45:40]
C
Just one microphone.
- [45:44]
A
Bless him.
- [45:45]
C
And.
- [45:45]
A
And he's like, yeah, we just, like, we don't really know how to record. And, like, just like, can we do, like, try it out? We just want to try to do a few episodes here. And I was like, sure. Like, so we did a few episodes where they just, like, paid me as their engineer and producer. And then I was just like. I was kind of, like, sitting there and I was like, man, I really want to say something.
- [46:02]
C
Yeah.
- [46:03]
A
And then I was like, I like, these guys. These guys are cool.
- [46:06]
C
Yeah.
- [46:06]
A
Just kind of like sitting there recording, like, listening. And I was like, this is fun. And then so a few episodes in, I just was like, before they left, I was like, hey, guys, like, hold up a second. I was like, I'm just gonna throw this out here. Like, what have you guys stopped paying me? And we just became partners, and then we just did this thing, and they were like, honestly, we were about to run out of money, so that's, like, perfect. And I was like, okay, great. Like, I was just like, I'll be the producer. Like, maybe I'll do some scoring. Like, you know, I'll get on Mike at some point, but, like, it's your show. Like, you guys are the show. Like, I'll just be the producer. But I just want to be a part of this. I just like something about this. I just really, like. And then it just went from there. And then I started doing the live scoring and I started talking more and, you know, just word, what are we at? 7, 7 and a half years or something?
- [46:52]
C
Like, I know. And, like, you're such a fan favorite. Like, you know, I've been listening to the show for A few years. And I was like, you know, I don't, I don't really know the time where you were kind of more tangentially on the mic, but you're necessary. I mean, like, you know, like, my God. Well, but it's also like, because I feel like, like the, the perspectives are so well balanced.
- [47:14]
A
That's what I love about our show us. It really is that it forms a strong shape. Like it does. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just I, I love those dudes. Like.
- [47:25]
C
Yeah, yeah, me too, man.
- [47:26]
A
Like, we recorded last night and it was like, you know, we did the episode and then we were trying to get through this ad read and like, we could not stop making each other laugh during this ad read. Like we were just dying, just trying to read some copy. And I was like, the fact that doing this every week with these dudes and this many years later, we're still just like cracking each other up. Yeah. Like this is like magic.
- [47:47]
C
That's so thankful for it. And that does not happen all the time. You know, Like I, I've been lucky enough to be in a lot of different projects and shows and it's really rare where it just doesn't feel like work.
- [47:59]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:00]
C
You know, and that's fine. It shouldn't, it doesn't always have to be.
- [48:03]
A
Sometimes, to be honest, sometimes it feels like work. When I'm like up against an editing deadline and we've now switched to video and I'm like trying to get the audio to sync and I'm like, well do an export and it's wrong and I gotta start again. I was like, but yeah, I mean.
- [48:17]
C
I mean, I'm a one man band here. I am absolutely the worst with technology. When you hear this, you'd be like, oh, God, Steve, you didn't mix this well at all. I mean, and I, I just, I'm doing the best I can. I feel like I'm getting a little better, but it is really tricky stuff.
- [48:32]
A
It is, yeah. The platforms are getting better. They are shout out to Riverside. They've really upped their game.
- [48:38]
C
They're doing a lot of the work for me where, you know, I kind of just sound mix it to the best of my ability and hope for the best. But yeah, I definitely like the first like 20 episodes I recorded, I'm always embarrassed and people's like, oh, should I start listening to your show from the beginning? I'm like, yeah, I don't know, it sounds like we're In a closet. It does not sound good.
- [48:58]
A
I mean, I still, like, I still feel like I'm always finding my footing with the show and finding, like, the sound of the show. And. Yeah, I didn't. I intentionally didn't just, like, make presets for everyone's mic channel. So, like, every time I mix the show, like, because I'm like, I just feel like it's just, like, always improving and getting better, and I'm learning, like, podcasting is, like, a sort of new form, and it is. I'm really, really big on quality, too. Like, I think to maybe an annoying degree with Michael sometimes. Like. Right. That's like the. Push the back and forth where I'm just like, no. It's like, if it's not perfect, I don't want to put it out. And he's like, we have to put this out every week. You're gonna kill yourself and me in the. Right.
- [49:37]
C
Right.
- [49:37]
A
But that also. That balance keeps it really good. And, like, we, you know, we push each other and keep the thing moving, and we're always trying to improve it and find.
- [49:44]
C
Yeah.
- [49:45]
A
Not just repeat ourselves seven years in, you know.
- [49:47]
C
Right. And. And you don't. It's. I think I feel like y' all found, like, a great way to, like, keep the show evolving because it is hard to, you know, like, just do this. I mean, like, there's certain people who can do the same thing for 20 years and it really works, right? Sure, if you are. But, like, I find myself sometimes, like, oh, I'm getting bored. I need to, like, inter. Make it some more entertaining for myself.
- [50:07]
B
So.
- [50:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:08]
C
Y. Yeah. If you're having fun, then the audience, I think, usually have fun.
- [50:11]
A
I think so too. One of the places for me with that is the scores, like, because, like, every. I never use canned music. It's always an original score for every episode.
- [50:20]
C
And it's so good.
- [50:21]
A
Nova's just crawled under my desk and is doing his best to knock into my mic stand.
- [50:26]
C
Oh, good. Yeah, no, we. We love guest. Guest stars, but.
- [50:30]
A
Yeah. So, like, with, like, on our Patreon, all. Not all of the scores, but. But a lot of the scores of the show are available, and it's now over 24 hours of music.
- [50:38]
C
That's incredible.
- [50:40]
A
It feels good. Yeah.
- [50:41]
C
Yeah. It's also nice to put your music out there too, you know, Like.
- [50:45]
A
Yeah. And especially this sort of ambient long form music. And. But every time I do a score, I try to use different instruments. I never use the same sounds. I never use just like a Stock thing. I could.
- [50:54]
C
Right.
- [50:54]
A
I'm always, like, building patches and using, like, maybe I'll use a guitar, maybe use a synthesizer. Maybe they'll use just, like, plugins. Like, and I just change it every time. And. And it's like a. It's. It's been this really great practice in my life of, like, also having to create a piece of music and release it, and then that's it. Like, I don't get to, like, tweak on it and futz with it. And sometimes there are mistakes, and sometimes it's not exactly what I envisioned, but it's just, like, it's done, it's out, and I'm working on the next one.
- [51:20]
C
And yet I think. I do think, like, for myself, deadlines are good. Especially when I've had, like, writing gigs. Like, or, like, I'm, you know, working on a project, like, writing a project. If I don't have a deadline, I will never turn it in. I will. Well, it's not good enough. I have to rewrite, like, the second act. It sucks. You know, like, oh, buddy.
- [51:39]
A
Oh, is that the truth? I have so many almost finished projects.
- [51:43]
C
Oh, man. If so, every once in a while, I'll go into one of my hard drives. It's like, the last. It's like a. Just a hard drive of unfinished, like, screenplays and, like, pitch ideas for TV shows. And, like, it's embarrassing.
- [51:55]
A
Yeah. And it's also embarrassing because, like, a lot of it's, like, really good. Yeah. Like, why didn't I do that? Right?
- [52:00]
C
Like, so I'm like, you, dude, you were right there. Like, you know, you gave up after the second act because it got a little bit hard.
- [52:08]
A
Oh, man.
- [52:08]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [52:09]
A
This is a real good story about.
- [52:11]
C
Bronx and his dad, Ryan. Real United Airlines customers.
- [52:15]
A
We were returning home, and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Kath and Andrew. I got to sit in the driver's seat.
- [52:22]
C
I grew up in a aviation family.
- [52:24]
A
And seeing Bronx kind of reminded me.
- [52:26]
C
Of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United pilot.
- [52:30]
A
These small interactions can shape a kid's future.
- [52:33]
C
It felt like I was the captain.
- [52:35]
A
Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever.
- [52:37]
C
That's how good leads the way.
- [52:40]
A
Shopping is hard, right? But I found a better way. Stitch fix online Personal styling makes it easy. I just give my stylist my size, style, and budget preferences. I order boxes when I want and how I want. No subscription required. And he sends just for Me pieces, plus outfit recommendations and styling tips. I keep what works and send back the rest. It's so easy. Make style easy. Get started today@stitch fix.com Spotify. That's stitch fix.com Spotify.
- [53:09]
C
Well, I want to ask you this, too, because, you know, they sort of refer. You know, Michael and Bryce kind of lovingly refer to you as the resident skeptic of the show. And I wonder, like, can you, like, in your to. And maybe there hasn't been much of one, but has there been an evolution from when you started this show to today? Like, do you see high strangeness and Bigfoot, UFOs, ghosts, and any other kind of form of the strange and unusual in a different light now than you did seven and a half years ago?
- [53:41]
A
Definitely. Definitely. I think before, I just thought of it as, like, this sort of, like, fun, like, kind of like stoner conversation thing.
- [53:50]
C
Yeah. And it is that.
- [53:53]
A
And it remains that.
- [53:55]
C
It remains, and that's good. It should always remain.
- [53:58]
A
And I think that's like. Yeah, I mean, that's a cornerstone of it, too.
- [54:00]
C
Absolutely.
- [54:01]
A
But one of the things that I've just been struck by over the years is just the amount of. Of very earnest, very honest seeming people that have experienced just truly unexplainable things right. In their lives and in. In their perception and, like, especially, like, with, like, ghost stuff. Like. Yeah. Also not. It's not just the stories of high strangeness, but it's the guests. Like, we just have a guest every week. And everyone's like, oh, nothing ever happened to me. And they're like, well, I did live in a haunted apartment. And then, you know, it's like, okay, let's get into that. And so it's like everyone has some level of experience. This is also common to every human history in mythology. Like, this has been with us since the beginning. And then so to me, it's like the paranormal becomes this, like, sort of Trojan horse to get into, like, more serious and maybe less fun conversations about, like, mortality and. Well, maybe they are fun. I mean, depends on how you look at it, but yeah. And, like, just the nature of reality and the nature of consciousness and the nature of perception and all of these things. And how it becomes this lens to look at reality with kind of like, not like a fresh set of eyes, but, like a removed set of constraints and. And just, like, kind of like really opening yourself up to, like. No, but now has my headphone wrapped around his body, buddy. Just like, opening yourself up to these, like, very broad ideas and, like, questioning Your own perception, your own eyes, your own consciousness. Where does that come from? All of these things. It becomes this like really great lens to kind of like view yourself in this very mysterious universe that we don't fully understand. So like, does that mean that I believe Bigfoot is a flesh and blood creature in the forest? I mean, with Bryce on Expedition Bigfoot. He is getting me. He's moving the needle.
- [55:54]
C
Yeah, he's moving the needle, baby.
- [55:56]
A
But like, you know, fundamentally, like, and we were talking, actually talking about this on an upcoming episode, like, fundamentally, I'm sort of like in the materialist camp where I'm like, you know, reality is reality, but also my experience of reality is entirely subjective to my own processing and preconceived notions and sensory input and all of these things. And so there is this layer between sort of material reality and the experience of material reality. And I think that's where the paranormal kind of lives. Yeah. And like, what it is, of course, like, I cannot say and I won't ever firmly believe something if I don't see it to be provable and repeatable.
- [56:34]
C
Same.
- [56:36]
A
But it's definitely like, it's just become this really interesting lens in my life to like, re examine myself, my mind, the people around me, the way people behave, just. And also it's just become a great, like, everybody now is like, oh, it's Riley, the Bigfoot guy.
- [56:51]
C
Yeah.
- [56:51]
A
Like, and they want to talk to me about whatever paranormal thing. So I get these interactions now a lot that I really enjoy. Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of, I'd say the way it's evolved and the way that I, that I see it now.
- [57:05]
C
Well, you said so many beautiful things there and I just could not agree with you more. Like, I think a lot of what it is, it's just kind of like a primer to examine your life and examine the world around you, even society and like other people. Like it is. When you said it's a lens is such a perfect way of putting it because, you know, sometimes you have to take the paranormal lens off to like, you know, go to work and you know, like, you know, interact in society.
- [57:30]
A
Sure.
- [57:31]
C
There are times when you like, I don't want to say disassociate because that's kind of as a negative connotation. Even though I don't always think disability.
- [57:38]
A
Not always.
- [57:39]
C
Yeah, I don't think it necessarily means that. But like, I, when I do want to disassociate and kind of disappear from reality, there's no better like, way to do it than like to read a high strange book or look into it or read about a case or interview somebody. It really is just fun. Like some of the most interesting conversations can branch out about philosophy, immortality, like you said so.
- [58:02]
A
Totally. Yeah. And it doesn't have this like, sort of like cringy, like, now we're going to talk about philosophy. It's like we're still like joking around and like, having fun, but then we're like, what do you think happens when we die?
- [58:12]
C
Right.
- [58:13]
A
You know, it's like, it's just a more fun way to approach, like, sometimes like difficult ideas, you know?
- [58:19]
C
Yeah, I think it is. I think it makes it easier and that sometimes I'm like, you know, this sounds. And I don't have. I like you, I do not have a belief system with any of this stuff.
- [58:27]
A
I like that. I think it's a great way to operate.
- [58:29]
C
It's. I'm agnostic to it all, you know, I think there's something to it. That's all I. That's all I can really, like, say after a lifetime of looking into it.
- [58:37]
A
Yeah. I mean, that part seems undeniable. There's too many experiences that it's just nothing thing.
- [58:42]
C
Right. I. I don't think everyone is hallucinating. And if everyone is hallucinating, that's just as interesting.
- [58:47]
B
Yeah.
- [58:47]
C
What's that mean exactly?
- [58:49]
A
And why are we having the same hallucination? What does that mean?
- [58:52]
C
Yeah.
- [58:52]
A
What is going on?
- [58:53]
C
What are these archetypes that keep on showing up, you know, so to me, so, like, there's no, there's no side of this where it's not deeply fascinating to me.
- [59:02]
A
Yeah.
- [59:03]
C
And so I feel lucky in that regard because I think there's some people, like, who just need answers. And I'm like, yeah, you're never gonna find them.
- [59:09]
A
Yeah, that's not. That's not what this is.
- [59:11]
C
Yeah, that's not what this is. And like, you know, using Bigfoot as an example, like, maybe, you know, maybe there is a flesh and blood Bigfoot. I find it extremely hard to believe that we wouldn't find a fossil record. And people will argue with me and say, well, they found giants. I'm like, but have they. We don't know that for sure. That's just like, that's what.
- [59:31]
A
I saw that picture on Facebook too. Yeah, right.
- [59:33]
C
You know, and then they'd be like, well, they found it, but then the Smithsonian took them. I'm like, but I don't know that for sure. I don't that's, that's a theory. Yeah. And it's cool. I would love to have that announcement. Breaking News. They found 12 foot tall human beings from. Yeah, I mean pre ice age.
- [59:48]
A
That'd be great.
- [59:49]
C
We could use a little.
- [59:50]
A
I could, I could wrap my head around that. I could see that.
- [59:52]
C
Sure, sure.
- [59:53]
A
But this earth has been here a long time. Oh.
- [59:55]
C
It's old and I don't think we know the mysteries she has.
- [59:58]
A
No, no, I don't think. Not at all.
- [60:02]
C
So are there like facets of the paranormal or high strangeness, you know, whatever you want to call this stuff that you find more compelling than others And I guess maybe to focus that in like just like. Are there like you know, like manifestations such as UFOs or ghosts or cryptids that you kind of give a little more credence than the other.
- [60:21]
A
I'm like really into the idea of like contact with higher consciousness, especially from like in my youth like experimenting with psychedelics. Like.
- [60:33]
C
Yeah.
- [60:33]
A
Definitely talked to some people that felt.
- [60:35]
C
Like we, I think we talked to the same people.
- [60:40]
A
Yeah. And you know I like, I love like, like Philip K. Dick is like especially like the Valis trilogy and like that whole idea of like the download of consciousness and all that stuff. And I, I would like to believe that that is real and possible and maybe even something that I've experienced or maybe we've all experienced to some degree. And I, I'm really, really fascinated by this idea of like consciousness transcending the speed of light and like permeating through the universe and.
- [61:18]
C
Right.
- [61:19]
A
This idea of like these like, sort of like you know, pure thought light beings, whatever they are that you know, are ancient, as ancient as the universe and permeate all things and like are sort of like always with us and like both not, they're not like guiding like I don't sort of have this like, sort of like egoist notion of like destiny and like that I'm being guided by these, these things. But like just like they're observing and they are shaping but they're not. There's also like sort of like a, A level of removed like the sort of like the scientists observing the subject like where they don't. It's not like that it's uncaring but it's, there's a, I don't know, there's like an ancient sort of coldness to the whole thing that is like.
- [62:05]
C
Right.
- [62:05]
A
Powerful. I'm starting to get into some like very sort of abstract.
- [62:09]
C
No, no, no. But I, I, I, I think you're Right. Like, I, I, I don't think like UFOs for example, or whatever, the UFO nuts that are controlling UFOs. I don't think if you re. I've read so many books about this stuff and it does not just seem, seem to be clear if it's benevolent or malevolent. I think it's in the middle. I think it doesn't care, like, really, you know.
- [62:29]
A
Yeah. But it, like, it also, like, sort of does, at least. This is like, that's like the experience I had once, many years ago, when I sort of like, met this being. It had this sense that I was like, it, it was cold, but it wasn't mean.
- [62:42]
C
Right.
- [62:42]
A
But it was still sort of loving, but it was like, just bigger, you know, and like, so I've always been really, really, really fascinated by that specific sort of idea of like the, like, root of consciousness and these, like, do we live in a conscious universe? Like.
- [63:00]
C
Right.
- [63:01]
A
You know, is the, is that what the paranormal is? And we talk about that a lot on the show is like, is the paranormal just this, like, larger thing that's playing out in all these different forms, but it's really so of all masks of the same thing. And that's like that Jacques Valle idea, basically.
- [63:14]
C
That's that. And that's what makes the most sense to me at this very, to this, you know, to this very moment, is that. And it's, you know, Valet will talk. He's got this control system theory where he thinks this stuff behaves as a control system, almost like a cultural thermostat.
- [63:30]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [63:31]
C
And it is going to give you what, give society or a culture what, what it can sort of understand within its framework.
- [63:39]
A
Yeah.
- [63:39]
C
You know, hundreds of years ago, thousands of years ago, it was the religious experience. But a lot of these stories, if you put them in Times Square in 2024, people say, oh, it's a UFO, right. Yeah. You know, it's just. And in 10, 15 years or 100 years, if humans are lucky enough to make it, we'll probably have a different conception of what the stuff could be.
- [63:58]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. And on that note, like, that's at the end of the day, like, what I want to be. If I could sort of put it in my ideal frame, like, it would be like that. It is this force that's like shepherding us through the atomic age and the step to become like, you know, first an interplanetary species, then an inner system species, and then, you know, eventually like, transcend our form and become.
- [64:19]
C
Yeah.
- [64:20]
A
Sky gods. Or whatever. Like, I kind of think that's like our function is to like, birth something that is like, greater than, like transcend our limitations and that gets into that sort of like, you know, it's. We're like one of countless, like, planets that are going through this transition and it's like, it's. It's just like tending the crops, you know, it's just like trying to sort of guide us through, but, like, some leaves are going to fall, you know, it's like. Right. And we're like, right there now where it's like we're either going to totally screw this up or we're going to transcend and like, start reaching a next. A next stage of civilization.
- [64:57]
C
Right, right.
- [64:58]
A
I'd like to believe that the paranormal is somehow a part of that and somehow trying to shepherd us through this. Yeah. This period.
- [65:06]
C
It's like that little stick kind of poking us.
- [65:08]
A
Yeah.
- [65:10]
C
Exactly.
- [65:13]
A
Maybe don't push that button.
- [65:14]
C
Yeah, exactly. Oh, you.
- [65:18]
A
Know, we got an atom split on Earth, so can we get somebody over there?
- [65:22]
C
Exactly. Gary, get down there.
- [65:24]
A
Yes, they're kicking it off.
- [65:25]
C
Yeah, Here we go.
- [65:27]
A
Yeah, it was inevitable, but, like, literally. Yes, like, that's. I would love it if that. It turns out just, just that's what it is.
- [65:33]
C
I like that. I'm gonna kind of go with that. The Riley Bray theory is what we'll call it from now on.
- [65:39]
A
I don't know if I'll take the credit, but.
- [65:40]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know, since you have such, you know, a deep interest in consciousness, which I agree it is, I think, inextricably linked with this stuff in a way where I'm not sure I understand it, but it is, I feel. What do you think about this, like, Almost like Philosophy 101, Bong Room, Dorm room, hit territory stuff? This, this is, this is the question. It's. Do you think a UFO is. It needs humans to observe it to actually exist? Like, or do you think, like, let's say, like. I guess. Here's the better, the dummy example. If all humans were wiped off the face of the planet, all animals, all living life, do you think UFOs would still be, you know, flying and would be, you know, around or ghosts or cryptids even?
- [66:32]
A
I mean, yeah, that is like. But yeah, I'm like, UFOs on a dead planet. That's kind of a cool thought. Yeah, it is, but I mean, that is like one of the, like, sort of like fundamental philosophical, like, questions. Right? Like the observer created universe, you know, does it. It's the it's the if a tree falls in the woods idea.
- [66:51]
C
Yep, absolutely.
- [66:53]
A
So to it, man. I mean, it's an unanswerable question. So.
- [66:59]
C
Of course, of course that's.
- [67:02]
A
I do. I do sort of tend to the. The, like, perception is a necessary, like, condition for the existence of reality. Like, it's. Because if something is not perceived, how can it exist?
- [67:23]
C
Right.
- [67:24]
A
At least on some level. And like. Okay, like, just arguing against myself, like, there are any number of planets that I absolutely believe in that I don't know are being perceived, but it's not the fact that I don't know that they're being perceived. I guess, like, because, you know, I don't know what you're seeing. Like, I, Like, I. So I have no reference for that. So I. You can't really rule that out. I. You can't say, I only believe in what I've seen. Like, that's ridiculous because, like, I haven't been to India, but I believe India is there.
- [67:52]
C
Right, Right.
- [67:55]
A
So I do, I. I think I do lean more towards the. Yeah. Like, the paranormal requires an observer.
- [68:07]
C
Right.
- [68:10]
A
To carry out its function, to exist.
- [68:13]
C
Yeah, in a way.
- [68:16]
A
But. Yeah, I mean, that's like. You do just get kind of, like, stuck in this loop then. Of like. Of, like. Yeah, but things exist. Yeah, but then it's like, yeah, but what's perceiving it? And then.
- [68:25]
C
Exactly.
- [68:26]
A
Then you start getting to that notion of, like, well, then is the universe conscious and it's perceiving itself and we are just like one little receptor, you know, neuron of the skin of the.
- [68:39]
C
Universe, which is expressions of the universe, maybe.
- [68:41]
A
Right? Yeah. And the whole thing is self perceiving. So it becomes this, like, ouroboros, like the snakey tail kind of thing of like, the universe exists and so it perceives and so it exists and so it perceives and.
- [68:52]
C
Right.
- [68:53]
A
I think kind of ends up in that place. Right. I guess. Yeah, I guess that's kind of how I'd answer that.
- [68:59]
C
Oh, I like that. That's. Ooh, that's good. You nailed it, by the way.
- [69:02]
A
A plus, A plus stoner philosophy.
- [69:06]
C
Absolutely. Well, just to tag one more stoner piece, I. I was recently reading an article that I cannot probably summarize too well because I'm not smart enough. But the gist of it was with quantum mechanics and the way they're, like, philosophizing about it is that if. If you mention an idea, then it becomes possible. Like, everything's impossible until it's brought out into. Until it's brought into consciousness. Then they say, like, literally nothing is impossible.
- [69:36]
A
Right.
- [69:36]
C
Literally nothing. So if you bring it up, if you raise a new idea, there's a possibility it can happen no matter how far out it seems.
- [69:46]
A
And even, even building on that is, I think once the idea exists, it's almost becomes an inevitability, not a possibility. And see that it also. And, and the, the clock starts ticking, like.
- [69:56]
C
Right.
- [69:57]
A
Like, I think the telephone is an example of that. That was invented simultaneously, like separately. There's a ton of examples of this. Yeah. There's a term for it too. I forget what it is.
- [70:07]
C
Right.
- [70:08]
A
Someone has an idea and it's concurrently happening in this.
- [70:11]
C
Is that morphic resonance? Maybe because they're. They. You know, I think it was Rupert Sheldrake who actually discovered that like, like primitive man were building fires and using tools at the exact same time on the far reaches of.
- [70:24]
A
Right. That perfect example of it.
- [70:26]
C
Right. And. And they know this now. I guess if you believe science, which I do. Not everyone does. Riley. I know, right. Oh, it's dicey out there. But no, I mean, and that is so fascinating. So it almost comes with invention. And I believe the motion picture is one of those examples where the Lumiere brothers were doing at the same time as Thomas Edison was doing it. And I think another Russian inventor was doing at the same time.
- [70:51]
A
Makes sense.
- [70:51]
C
Yeah, but they didn't know because they also didn't want to talk about it because they wanted to be the first.
- [70:55]
A
Everyone's trying to do the first thing.
- [70:56]
C
But it was all happening at the same time. And these were giant leaps.
- [70:59]
A
Yeah.
- [71:00]
C
At the time, like almost unthinkable.
- [71:02]
A
And the Internet has accelerated this process like, exponentially.
- [71:06]
C
Yeah.
- [71:06]
A
The other thing that like, came to mind when you're talking about that is that I think it's the four minute mile. It was a thing that it was thought to be an unbreakable barrier. And then as soon as someone did it, it then tons of people did it.
- [71:17]
C
Yeah.
- [71:18]
A
And it was like. It's that same idea of like, if we believe something to be an impossible thing, it remains impossible. But as soon as one person proves no, this is possible, like, then it just becomes almost regular, you know, And I think that applies to, to like, ideas too. And we're, I mean, we're really entering like an accelerated time of our, of our evolution and our timeline. And it's a dangerous time, for sure.
- [71:42]
C
It's dangerous. Yeah. And like with AI and like, you know, massive advancements in technology that we can't even fathom right now. It's gonna get weird. And it may be great. There may be. It may be what saves us in the end and can like reverse climate change. Like, I do have this like, weird hope that technology in some young kid right now is tinkering around in his bedroom with an idea. He's like, huh? Or we could use mushrooms to suck up all the toxins and release new carbon into the air or something, you know, like. Yeah, but then, then you have oil companies not letting that happen because there's.
- [72:15]
A
Plenty of people as old as time. Yeah, I, oh man, sorry. I totally just derailed. I had a thought on that.
- [72:26]
C
Oh yeah, it'll come back. Well, I'm gonna let you go pretty soon because I've taken up so much of your time. But I do want to ask you. So after hearing all these stories on your show, you know, and you're hearing a lot of new ideas and you know, like, have you found any kind of patterns for you that have started to emerge? And I'm not necessarily talking about like, oh, you know, we keep on seeing this like 8 foot tall hair cover creature. Not necessarily the, the manifestation of high strangeness, but some of the like, parts of the stories that like be a geographic location or a feeling someone, someone is describing. Like are there patterns that you've kind of go, oh, that's interesting.
- [73:10]
A
I think one thing that's really struck me is that before I started learning more and more and more about this, I thought of it as sort of like a scary, dark, fire in the sky sort of vibe. And it's, it's the level of sort of humor in a lot of these things that there's like this, this like cheeky like trickster kind of thing, like, of this sort of like. And then we'll just throw this in. So no one's ever gonna believe you.
- [73:38]
C
Right.
- [73:38]
A
And that I've, I see as this like repeated pattern where I, I'm, I'm trying to think of like a specific example. But like the Space pancakes is a good example. You know, it's like, what? What? Why?
- [73:50]
B
What?
- [73:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, but it's like also like this guy's. I, I don't think he was just making that up up, you know, so. And, and in that case there's like physical evidence. There's all this stuff and, but it's the, it's the humor element that has really struck me and I see as this continued pattern of. It just sort of feels like it's like a friendly kind of like ribbing it is. Yeah, it is.
- [74:12]
C
I, I totally agree. And I, I've thought about that a lot and I once gave a lecture about like absurd. Absurdism and surrealism in High Strange.
- [74:21]
A
Love that.
- [74:22]
C
And to me it is. I mean, like, this is just my own, like, idea. I'm not saying this is what it is. But humor, absurdism and surrealism helps you remember moments. Well, yeah.
- [74:33]
A
Or makes.
- [74:33]
C
Can make a bigger impact because, you know, laughing is such a high heightened emotion. And when you're confounded and confused, like if you look at a surrealist painting and like you're going to give it some time, look at it for five minutes, it is going to take you on the most wild ride. Even like looking at like a dolly painting, it's like you could stare at that for an hour and there's like 10 movies playing within that painting.
- [74:54]
A
Oh, man. Totally.
- [74:55]
C
You know, it's like the Alpha and the Omega. It is just heavy, heavy stuff. And so I do think humor, absurdism and just goofballness plays into this stuff.
- [75:05]
A
Yeah, yeah, I do too. And it all kind of gets back to these same roots of like questioning your reality, questioning your mind, you know, just. I don't know. And I, I like that it makes it not feel scary. Like.
- [75:18]
C
Yeah, me too.
- [75:20]
A
Like, I would be really excited if I saw a ufo. Like very. I'd be, yeah. Like, even if, like I saw an alien in the. I'd be like, I'd be like, hell yeah, brother, what's up? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I want to meet the, the space people, man.
- [75:39]
C
I'm with you. I hope I'm. Yeah. And I would love it to be like a real gift goofball, one that like, you know, gets off, gets off like a little saucer. It's like a purple and fuzzy, you know, like it speaks in a high pitched voice.
- [75:50]
A
Top hat in a cane maybe.
- [75:52]
C
Yeah, it does a little Irish jig. That is my. If. Look, if we're crafting our ideal UFO situations, I think you and I are looking for the same, you know, alien experience, I think.
- [76:03]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [76:04]
C
Some Poto buddy. I have one last question before I let you go. And, and I wonder sometimes if, you know, music, rhythm, drums, these are ancient things. And you know, back in some of these ancient cultures, like they were really using music and drumming and, you know, sound as a tool of divination to commune with the other. And I, and I do think psychedelic music, the repetition, the drones, really has the primal kind of sound to it and a lot of it is the repetition. For me, it's like a kind of avoidance of, like, blue scales. And it drives something into you, and it does, like, you know, it's almost like binaural beats, right? Like, I feel like there's something about psychedelic music that, like, it is the. We're going to play three chords for seven minutes and we have, like, four people doing it. And then there's a nice sitar or drone instrument. To me, we're talking. We're speaking of the most beautiful kind of music.
- [77:04]
A
Totally.
- [77:04]
C
I wonder, do you think there's, like, a divinational quality to music?
- [77:09]
A
A hundred percent, yes. And it's what drew me into it in the first place. Like, before I even knew what I was experiencing, when I just started picking up instruments as a kid and, like, checking out for, like, an hour and then, like, whoa.
- [77:23]
C
Yeah.
- [77:23]
A
And, like, I am still always, like, chasing that feeling in live performance, in writing, in playing. And, like, I spend. And this is very intentional, but I spend a lot of time playing music that I do not record, and it is not for anyone. And I just, like, I will. I'll just. I. To me, it's like. It's like respecting and maintaining my antenna where I'm just like, this isn't. I'm not gonna try to monetize this. I'm not gonna try to sell this. I'm not gonna try to impress anyone with this. Right. I'm just going to do it, like, and just react, really try to, like, fully tap in and just. Only. Just, only think of the instrument and almost, like, listen for the next note that's coming rather than, like, choose to play it. And, like, that is just a huge, huge, huge part of music to me. And I do think it's like you're participating in a very ancient ritual that is, like, fundamental to the human experience and, like, human communication. And, I mean, I know, like, not everyone can experience music. Like, I don't want to, like, sort of take this, like, ableist slant on it.
- [78:28]
C
I hear you. Yeah.
- [78:29]
A
But, like, I do think that it is, like, it's. It's just a fundamental thing. And to me, it's like, it's the closest job to, like, wizard that I could find in this life. And I was like, well, I'm gonna do that one then.
- [78:43]
C
That is so perfect. I love that.
- [78:45]
A
Yeah. So, yeah, absolutely. Like, I approach music with, like, awe and reverence, and as a, like, spiritual practice. I try to avoid that word a lot. It sounds a little like it's loaded.
- [78:58]
C
But, yeah, I Hear what you're saying, man.
- [78:59]
A
For sure. Yeah. Fully.
- [79:00]
C
Yeah.
- [79:00]
A
I just, like, I really. I. It's like an antenna. Like, I'm trying to tune my brain to just let these things come in and then just let them come out through my hands. And then they just exist in the air and I perceive them back on myself as like, sound waves. And it's just this. You just build up this cycle and then you just exist in it and you're able to disattach from your thoughts. And it's not. It's not like I'm just like sitting here floating, playing a sitar all day. Like, it's. You don't get those moments. Like, you have to work hard to get those moments. But when you get them, they. They are like. It's like transcendent. It's beautiful.
- [79:32]
C
Yeah.
- [79:33]
A
I love it. It's like the greatest thing.
- [79:34]
C
Oh, yeah. Riley Bray, you were a beautiful man. I gotta tell you. I am so happy. I know. Yeah, it truly is, man. You're a wonderful person and I want to admit something to you. When I was doing my dishes this morning, cleaning up my kitchen, a song popped in my head because I was like, riley Bray. I'm interviewing Riley Bray later. A song I probably haven't thought about. And I was never even a fan of the band, but do you remember the band live from the 90s?
- [79:59]
A
Yes, sure. Yeah.
- [80:01]
C
And they had the song called the Beauty of Gray. And in my head I was like, the beauty of Gray, like really bright. And I had. I started like mixing lyrics up to. Was great. I'll sing it into a voice memo to you later. Oh my.
- [80:15]
A
Please send me that.
- [80:15]
C
Yeah, yeah, you'll love.
- [80:16]
A
I'll send you the letter record you send me.
- [80:18]
C
Okay. Oh, man. Buddy. Where can people find more of you? Please tell us.
- [80:24]
A
I'm mostly only on Instagram as at Peace Drone also, but like Bigfoot Collectors Club, like. And also we've switched to YouTube. We're just getting it kicked off. Like, please go follow the Bigfoot Collectors Club YouTube channel. I also have a YouTube channel that has some like. Like ambient music and.
- [80:40]
C
Oh, hell yeah.
- [80:41]
A
I didn't know that. It's also Peace Drone, but there's someone else called Peace Drone that flies a drone. Follow us both, I guess, if you can find it. But I mean, I am on Instagram, sort of pretty okay at it. So you can say hi to me there and give me a follow or whatever.
- [80:58]
C
Yep. And you will find all those links in the show notes. My friends. Riley Bray, I hope you have a fantastic day. Keep on doing what you're doing. We need more people out there like you musician wizards.
- [81:09]
A
Well, thank you, Steve. I'd say the same to you, truly. Like, thank you for what you do. Thank you for having me and just like, keep doing it. You're just. You're shining light in the world, man.
- [81:16]
C
Oh, brother. Thank you so much. Right back at you, folks. This has been another episode of High Strangers. Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy your dinners tonight.
- [81:26]
A
Peace.
- [81:44]
B
Bigfoot Collectors Club is executive produced by Riley Bray and Michael McMillan and engineered and edited by Riley Bray. Our theme song is Come Alone by Suneaters, courtesy of Lotus pool Records. For ad free listening and bonus episodes every month, join Big BCC Clubhouse on bcc.supercast.com Want to see us watch video episodes and exclusive content on YouTube.com advitfoodcollectors club. Tired of juggling sales tools or spending.
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A
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