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Hi, Strangeness: "Waving the Wheat" w/ Steve Berg & Michael McMillian
02:07:11
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- [00:00]
A
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- [00:23]
B
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A
Hello Club Scouts and welcome to a very special episode of Bigfoot Collectors Club. The show where we talk to amazing guests about their personal paranormal history and share stories of high strangeness so special that technically it's not even an episode of bcc. Although it kind of feels like it's an episode of bcc, which you will soon find out. Hello, I'm your host, Michael McMillan. Super producer Riley Bray is absent this week. He is off doing cool musician things. You will be able to possibly see him soon playing with pussy. Right? He's going on tour very soon. I don't have the dates or the locations in front of me right now, but I will put a link in the show notes to that. Make sure you're also following Riley on Instagram at Peace Drone and I'm sure that he will keep everyone posted and if he doesn't, I'll remind him to keep everybody posted. Okay? All right everybody, here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna go down a little list of clubhouse keeping because I have some important updates for everybody. So bear with me for a couple minutes. Okay? As we announced at the end of last week's show, the BCC main feed, the one that you're listening to right now for free, is going on a holiday hiatus through the end of the year. However, don't be too sad because we are going to be releasing BCC related episodes every week. Okay, well, first up, this week and next week we are celebrating Big friendsgiving. This is where we share episodes that Riley and I have done on other podcasts. And this week we have an interview that Steve Berg, good friend of the show, did with me over on his podcast called hi Strangeness. Now we obviously love Steve. He's become a very good friend of ours and a big part of the BCC community over the past year. And this is a really great opportunity to hear Steve in the driver's seat and maybe even get to know me a little bit better in the process. Steve has had a ton of incredible guests on the show, some that have never made a BCC appearance. Many. Most have not. There's been some crossover. So I really recommend that after you listen to this, you go add hi strangeness to your podcast player. And by the way, that is hi as in hello. Hi. Hi. Not. What's going on in here? Why is your door locked? What's happening? Your father and I are very upset. You've been acting weird. What's that smell? Are you getting high? Now, the thing I'm most excited about is that, like last year for Big Friendsgiving, we will be taking a percentage of money that the show receives from sponsorships and premium subscriptions over on our supercast feed, BCC Clubhouse, and we're going to donate them to a good cause. Now, last year we were able to raise over $400 to the LA Food Bank. And this year we're going to donate to another great cause, the Midnight Mission, that is located here in Los Angeles. Since 1914, the Midnight Mission has provided housing, recovery, education and workforce development so people experiencing homelessness can rebuild their lives. So this money is going to go to a good place and hopefully feed some hungry men, women and children over the holidays. Okay, that's great. Michael who? But you might be wondering, am I going to get any new BCC content between now and the end of the year? Well, guess what? You can if you want it. Because over on BCC the Other side, Riley and I are going to be dropping bonus episodes per usual three a month and beginning this Friday, where we're going to have a very fun episode about a French UFO landing from 1965. So if you've ever been curious about checking out our super cast feed, BCC Clubhouse, where you get access to the BCC Discord, you get three bonus episodes. Every month on the Other side Channel, you get access to Ad Free episodes and exclusive music from Riley. Now's the time. Because if you sign up this month, part of your membership will go to the Midnight Mission. It's a win, win, win. And this month on the Ad Free Channel, we've also begun dropping weekly classic AD Free episodes, starting with the very first episode zero. So there's a lot of bang for your buck on the BCC Clubhouse. And again it's going to go. Part of your money is going to go to a very good cause. You can check that out@bcc.supercast.com if you're still not sure. No worries. Next month will be declassified December where we will be releasing the best episodes for from BCC the Other side from 2025 which have been hand picked, hand selected by your fellow club scouts. Okay, that is it for the clubhouse keeping. Now please sit back, relax or if you're driving, keep your eye on the road and keep your hands at 10 and 2. Please enjoy this episode of High Strangeness with Steve Berg and me. We'll see you back here next week for part two of Big Friendsgiving.
- [06:24]
B
Do you think UFOs, the paranormal, weird history, cryptozoology and outsider art are pretty darn cool? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to High Strangeness with your host, Steve Berg. Hello, friends. Welcome back to another fun episode of High Stranges. Tonight I have my good buddy Mike McMillan on and I'm just gonna give you a few tidbits about Michael. You all know him, especially on this show. But just in case you weren't aware, this guy is an absolutely, incredibly gifted actor who's appeared on wonderful television shows like True Blood, My Craziest Girlfriend for All Mankind, and currently he's on a very new show that I'm excited to check out called Bookies. And of course he is one of the hosts of the absolutely phenomenally fantastic the Bigfoot Collectors Club. Michael, how are you doing, brother? What's cooking, Steve?
- [07:31]
A
What a lovely introduction. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.
- [07:35]
B
Well, thank you for being on and loaning me your time, my friend. It means a lot to me.
- [07:38]
A
Hey, honestly, anything for Mr. Berg. That's how I, I feel. I love the show. I'm, I. You, you were on Bigfoot Collectors Club recently.
- [07:48]
B
Such an honor.
- [07:49]
A
And I'd been listening to High Strangeness. We do a, A, a segment of High Strangeness each week. Most, most every week on the podcast. Sometimes we have like, you know, cool experts on the show like your past guest, John El Tenney, where we just, we don't, we don't want to talk too much. We want to just listen to, to them speak and. Yeah, so this is like, we're, we're, we're brothers in arms here for sure. And I'm very happy that, that you're making the show and I'm very, very happy to be here.
- [08:19]
B
Oh, my gosh, that is like the greatest encouragement I've ever gotten. Thank you. You just charged my battery, sir. You know, one thing I just kind of. I kind of want to just, you know, before we get into talking weird, I discovered when I was on your show that you are from the great state of Kansas.
- [08:36]
A
That's right. Midwestern babies.
- [08:38]
B
Yeah.
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A
45 minutes from Lawrence, Kansas, where you went to university.
- [08:44]
B
Yes, that is where I studied at university.
- [08:47]
A
Do you want to talk mastery? Right. Really wanted to do it on. On our show, but I was, of course, man.
- [08:53]
B
I mean, like, look, here's the story. Like, I remember when I was in high school, like, I applied to three schools. I applied to University of Colorado, Indiana and Kansas as my safety school. I got into all three and I was not excited about going to KU for some reason. I was like, yeah, Kansas. But then I remember going there. My dad took me in a college visit and I picked up the Pitch Weekly, which is kind of like the LA Weekly. Like.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah, yep.
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B
The. The cultural newspaper. And I remember seeing that Guided by Voices, Pavement, Archers of Loaf and Yellow Tango were playing there like within the next two months. I was like, I think I'll just go to school here.
- [09:25]
A
That's all it took. Yeah, totally. It's such a great college town. It's. It's also like one of the. I feel like. Well, you know, in Omaha obviously is a big indie rock band down too. And you know, when I was growing up. So I'm all out myself. I'm class of 97, so I'm 95. Okay. Okay. So we're. We. We would have gone to high school at the same time together. So Lawrence in the 90s was like the coolest place to hang out. It was also. I want to. To like tie it back all in together with. With, you know, the show and the spirit of the show. It was for. For a kid who grew up in the suburbs of Kansas City, it was the weirdest place.
- [10:05]
B
Oh yeah.
- [10:06]
A
That I had closest access to, you know, I remember. So my sister went to ku. She was ahead of you. And she used to work at the Replay Lounge.
- [10:14]
B
Oh my God. That's my favorite bar in the world.
- [10:17]
A
She. She probably was working there when you were in college.
- [10:22]
B
It's a punk rock bar. I mean, like, it is the coolest punk rock bar I've ever been to. My life, period.
- [10:26]
A
Had all. Still does, I believe. Cool pinball, old school pinball machines. And this will make you happy. Some of those original pinball machines that were in the replay in the 90s now live in. My sister and her husband's finished basement. So literally when I go home now to see my sister and stay with her, I get to play on the old replay. When next time you should come down to KC come come over and hang out at my sister, my brother in law's house and you can relive some memories. They have some good. They have an Adams family pinball machine there and there's a couple there. There are a few. I can't remember specifically which ones are from the replay off the top of my head, but. But I think three or four. They have about six and like three or four of them are from the replay on, on. On Mastery.
- [11:12]
B
So there is a strong chance I spilled natural light all over one of those pinball machines.
- [11:17]
A
Oh yeah, there's. There's Steve Berg DNA on the buttons. You know, my family, one of the most. Probably currently the most sacred place in my family right now. The sacred, sacred space of the pinball room. But I remember when I would go visit her, I was in high school still and I would. I remember driving into town and. And getting off on mass, you know, pulling off on Mastery coming up from the south. And like there was the. Do you remember the Fill Zone?
- [11:46]
B
Of course. I. I used to. I used to buy. I used to buy items there for things to. To do things.
- [11:52]
A
Tobacco pipes.
- [11:53]
B
They had tobacco pipes there. Tobacco bomb. Yeah, I was a regular there.
- [11:58]
A
I remember like the Fill zone was like the. For me it was like the visual cue that like, all right, I'm getting close to the fun here. And it was just like. It was a hippie, you know, had a real hippie vibe. It was very liberal for, you know, where I grew up in Johnson county. It was very Republican, very conservative church on every corner. So like Lawrence was like a safe place to go. My first girlfriend that I like, you know, official girlfriend, lived. We met at like theater camp and she lived out in Lawrence. So like my buddies and I would drive out there and go hang out and you know, it was just a. Lawrence is like one of my favorite places and ever.
- [12:35]
B
Yeah.
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A
And has like a really wonderful. Like people don't understand that. Kansas used to be a very liberal place. Like it was, you know, we were a free state for. For fuck's sake. You know what I mean? And can I. I can't remember.
- [12:49]
B
I can't. I encourage it.
- [12:52]
A
So, you know, and it's gotten obviously like very conservative. Although I feel like things hopefully maybe are shifting.
- [12:59]
B
They are shifting for sure. Kansas is actually a good example of how a place that's pretty Conservative can change.
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A
Yeah.
- [13:07]
B
Fast too.
- [13:07]
A
Yeah.
- [13:08]
B
Like.
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A
Yeah, so it was just that it's.
- [13:11]
B
It.
- [13:12]
A
It's a weird town and it's just one of those, like. Like, I've always thought when I retire, whenever. If you retire in this business, I want to. I want to build, you know, probably all the land over there will be gone, but then I'll have to go out to Baldwin or something. But, like, I want like a nice little patch of land near or in Lawrence, Kansas, and die and bury me in Lawrence, you know, put me. Put me in the stole cemetery just south of town.
- [13:39]
B
Oh, you beat me too. Well, that was a question I had. I was gonna bring that up next. I mean, first off, I just want to say I echo that completely. I have convinced my wife because I still have some family there. I have an aunt there, and I meet my friends up there like once a year for like a hangout.
- [13:52]
A
Oh, dude.
- [13:53]
B
I have. I've taken my wife there a couple times and she lives. Loves Lawrence. And I'm like, even though I live in Omaha and Omaha is much smaller in la, after we lived in LA for so long, almost now, like over a million people, it's too big, like, and I feel like my next move will be Lawrence.
- [14:07]
A
Well, this is. Okay, so thank you. You reminded me of the tangent that was actually trying to go down and then I got distracted.
- [14:13]
B
It.
- [14:14]
A
What I love about it is I still feel like even though there's been some development, it still feels like it did to me when I go back in the 90s and I, you know, there was a big migration, you know this. But I guess I'm speaking to. To your listeners. Like, back in the day, like, a lot of people would leave Lawrence and then move to Austin. You know, they would like, kind of graduate to Austin. There was a big migration going back and forth. And this is like back in the Austin, like Richard Link later is making.
- [14:39]
B
Yep.
- [14:40]
A
Oh, my God. Why am I blanking? Well, yeah, Slacker. I think it's like back in those days. So, you know, we were just in Austin for BCC in July, and Austin is like a huge metropolis. Still has an awesome energy to it. I'm like, oh, this is like if Lawrence was a capital of a state, you know, that's exactly right. But it's not too big and it still has retained its personality, I think. So I. I love going back there.
- [15:06]
B
They've done a good job. Like, anytime a corporation, like, or a Starbucks or something, like, you know, Barnes and Noble, I remember there's people like in the 90s when I was there protesting the Barnes and Noble moving in, seeing like we don't want your corporate business get it out there or moving to western Lawrence. And they, they're successful at keeping those businesses out.
- [15:22]
A
They successfully kicked McDonald's off of mastery. There used to be that, that little like almost underground McDonald's there.
- [15:29]
B
What I don't remember.
- [15:31]
A
They kicked it out. Am I saying. I think there was a. This is like maybe before your time. There was a McDonald's there briefly. Now if my buddy Dave Keith is listening or my sister's listening, I might get yelled at. But that. I think there used to be a McDonald's there. It left. And then at one point I think a Chipotle went in on mass like pre Chipotle popularity. And then when people found out it was owned by a giant conglomerate, I think maybe McDonald's the same thing. They, they got rid of it. So they. There is that wonderful pushback and support for small business in that town. And one of the only places where I'm like, oh, the Raven Bookstore moved and expanded. This is really cool. You know, like you'll see small, small businesses there grow now sadly. The comic book stores, it used to be. There used to be a number of them on Mastery.
- [16:24]
B
There was two of them when I was there. Yeah, but the Love Garden still there. Some of the great record shops are still there.
- [16:29]
A
So, you know, so, so this is good. And bcc if listeners who might be listening to this episode, they may know the name Lotus Pool Records. Lotus Pool is a local label that my brother in law Chris started when he was in Lawrence getting his masters in the early 90s. And we used to. The fun thing that used to do the.
- [16:51]
B
When.
- [16:51]
A
When my, my sister and my brother in law started dating, I would. He'd be like, you want to go to Lawrence? I have to go to the record stores. And I'd, I'd go with him as he like he would carry around a trunk full of. He had like Bully Pulpit Zoom, all these little indie bands, you know, I don't want to say little indie bands. That sounds condescending but like indie, you know, like true indie bands. And he would go restock at the Love Garden and other places around Lawrence that used to be my favorite to go out there with him. Hit those stores had hit the comic shop and then inevitably we'd like end up at a bar where I would get served, you know, a little early, earlier than I should have.
- [17:29]
B
Oh, I mean as a freshman I was. I could walk into Any bar. And like order like, you know, I'd be like, rum and Coke. And then yes, sir. I'm like, what? This is the best.
- [17:38]
A
When my sister worked at the Replay. I think the statue of limitations on this have long since passed.
- [17:45]
B
We're good, we're good.
- [17:45]
A
But she'd be like, wear your glasses. When you wear your glasses, you look older. And I was like, okay. And I would just go sit at the bar. Oh, it's.
- [17:52]
B
Well, I mean, it's such a special place. And I, I have referenced it a couple times. I mean, like, you know, I think the hipster ness of Lawrence probably started when Willie Ms. Burroughs moved there.
- [18:02]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [18:02]
B
Came this like, kind of like bastion for beatniks and punks and like luminaries in the underground music scene would come visit him and stay at his place. I mean, I know that Kurt Cobain came out there and stayed with him for two weeks.
- [18:13]
A
Oh yeah. Chris, my, the, the. My. My brother in law, my sister's husband, he used to go shoot guns with Burroughs. What? And he's got in his. Not. Not too far from where the pinballs are in his studio because he's a musician as well. He's lead singer guitar on Sun Eaters, which is also on the Lotus Pool label. But he's got like framed target art that William S. Burroughs made.
- [18:39]
B
Oh, my God.
- [18:40]
A
And it's, it's framed and hanging in his. In his studio at home.
- [18:43]
B
Oh, that is absolutely incredible.
- [18:46]
A
Hey, club scouts. This time of year is about traditions, am I right? First, traditional family get togethers during the holidays. Well, let me tell you something that you got to be careful of when it comes to tradition. Traditional bed sheets. You know why? They can harbor more bacteria than a toilet seat. It can lead to acne allergies and stuffy noses and it's just disgusting. Miracle Maid offers a whole line of self cleaning antibacterial bedding such as sheets, pillowcases and comforters that Prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth and require up to three times less laundry. So you're not going to smell disgusting when you're sitting around the dinner table over the holidays. Self cleaning, you ask? That's right. These sheets are infused with silver that Prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth, leaving them to stay cleaner and fresh three times longer than other sheets. So no more gross odors. Well, are they comfortable? Michael, you might be asking yourself, I need something to talk around the turkey about. Well, tell your family this. Miracle sheets. You don't have to Crack your voice like that. I got a little too enthusiastic. You could say Mama, Papa. Miracle sheets are luxuriously comfortable without the high price tag of other luxury brands and feel as nice, if not nicer than sheets used by some five star star hotels, which I wish some of the family sitting here would go stay at so I could have a little bit more me time. College is hard. Miracle sheets are designed for your skin, so stop sleeping on bacteria. Bacteria can clog your pores causing breakouts and acne. Just sleep clean with Miracle. And I know it's getting chilly out and that's why these sheets are also temperature regulating and they have temperature regulating properties for better quality sleep. So no matter the weather, you get better sleep every night. What do I tell my family to do if they want these miracle made sheets? You're asking me now and I know you're playing this out loud at the Thanksgiving table. Well, turn it up because I'm about to tell grandpa what his next move is. I upgrade your sleep as the weather heats up. Go to trymiracle.com BCC to try Miracle made sheets today. And whether you're buying them for yourself or as a gift for a loved one, if you order today you can save over 40%. And if you use our promo BCCheckout, you'll get a free three piece tile set and save an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product it's backed with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you aren't 100% satisfied, you'll get a full refund. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle made. Go to trymiracle.com BCC and use the code BCC to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com BCC to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle made for sponsoring this episode. That's what I'm thankful for this year.
- [22:04]
B
Well everyone, I have, I, you know, like, I mean this could easily become a just a podcast about Lawrence but I mean it is one of the, it is just such a wonderful bastion of like progressivism in a state.
- [22:16]
A
And it isn't a ton, it's got vibes, you know what I mean? So if, let's, let's bring it into high strangeness.
- [22:22]
B
I'm with you.
- [22:22]
A
One of the first like ghost hunting, amateur ghost hunting things I ever did was at the Eldridge Hotel.
- [22:29]
B
Oh yeah.
- [22:30]
A
Which is on the 700 block I think in, in Lawrence. And so, so people may not know this but during the like Civil war times, Quantrell who Was a raided Lawrence and burned. Rode in because Lawrence was a free state. This was a Iowa teacher who was for the Confederacy, believed in, you know, slavery came out. They burned down a bunch of buildings in Lawrence, dragged all the single men and boys out into the street, executed them. And so there is this like really trap. Tragic history that happened. And I don't know if you've ever seen this, if you. If you've ever been to Harrisonville, Missouri, where Quantrell's Raiders used to hang out, there's a mural. Sorry, I will try to pull back.
- [23:28]
B
Oh no, you're fine, you're fine.
- [23:30]
A
My buddy Dave and I went out to. To look for like, you know, the show that I'm on is called Bigfoot Collectors Club. And there's a reason I also collect a lot of like action figures and comics and stuff. So we were antiquing in Harrisonville, Missouri, and there is a mural painted near the town square of Quantrell raiding Lawrence.
- [23:51]
B
What?
- [23:51]
A
And burning it down. And I was like, wait a minute.
- [23:55]
B
Harrison, are you kidding me?
- [23:57]
A
Yeah, no, it's one of those places that. Where you also like go into some of the antique shops and you round a little corner and there's like a whole display stand with like Confederate flags and Confederate history. Well, you're like, we need to get the fuck out of this town. We gotta go.
- [24:11]
B
I don't want to diss Missouri too hard, but as a, you know, Kansas fan of their basketball and their sports teams, I mean, like, there is a reason why these schools hate each other so much. Oh yeah, it goes back, you know.
- [24:25]
A
And sadly not as long go as you. You think. You know what I mean? Like, it's really. Yeah, so. So Mast street itself has like some traumatic history to it. There's like one huge violent event at least that took place there. And the Eldritch Hotel was I believe around at that time or erected shortly thereafter.
- [24:45]
B
It was there, but it. It got damaged but not burned down. It was one of the few buildings on the. On the. In the downtown that remains.
- [24:51]
A
Okay, great. That's. I'm. I'm glad that I got that right. So there is a room on the fifth floor. I believe it is room. I'm pulling this all out of memory. It might be like 506. Maybe it's 6:05. I should look at this. But there's a room up on the fifth floor of the Eldridge Hotel that is a lot of people think is a portal to the other side.
- [25:11]
B
Beautiful.
- [25:12]
A
There's a. It's majorly haunted. And when you go into the Eldridge Hotel library lobby, there's a photo at the front desk of the lobby at Christmas time, black and white photo. And the elevator doors open and you can see like a shadowy figure standing in the open doorways. And you ask anybody who works here, like, oh, yep, this place is haunted. That's the Eldridge ghost. So we went one night after drinking, my, my sister and my brother in law and my cousins and I went poking around there. My friend Dave, who I've mentioned a couple times, and this is back when I had a early cell phone camera and I was snapping pictures and we were outside the Vortex Room and I got like classic orbs, like bright blue, like a bright blue orb that had a tracer, like moving. You could track it photo to photo and see it was here, it was here, it was here and it had tracers on. Wasn't dust, it wasn't up in the camera lens. It was clearly moving through these images. So that was like kind of, that was one of my earliest like paranormal encounters that I went and sought out and just got a little something there.
- [26:29]
B
That is absolutely beautiful. And let me piggyback on that and just say, this summer in July, I think I was in Lawrence for a bachelor party with some of my college friends that I was throwing this little party for him. And we all stayed at the Eldritch Hotel, which was just phenomenal. But the last night we were there, I had talked to somebody who worked there and said like, hey, is there any way like we could get a tour? And they're like, well, yeah, we don't, I don't really get off work till two in the morning though. I was like, perfect. That's when the bars close.
- [26:55]
A
So we were primed and ready.
- [26:57]
B
We'll be primed. And look, we were not primed or ready, but we went like at 2 in the morning. And this wonderful lady, I wish I remembered her name, told us about all the experiences that people who currently work there having had. And I was asking bartenders, the woman at the front desk, everyone there, I'm not even joking, has had an experience. And it was so that place is still wildly active and they see a lot of shadow figures, orbs of light, things moving, poltergeist activity. One lady told me about an airport where she was in like the lobby, like mopping up at night and then a bunch of change fell out of nowhere.
- [27:31]
A
No.
- [27:32]
B
Yes.
- [27:33]
A
And it is 506. I was right. So thankfully my memory is still working. Yeah, 506 is supposed to be the portal room to the spirit realm.
- [27:41]
B
Oh, buddy, we have to meet there and investigate. Well, I have a pitch for you later.
- [27:45]
A
That would be great. Actually. We should, we should do it for, for. We'll do a little high strangeness BCC crossover.
- [27:50]
B
I think we should.
- [27:51]
A
We just did a, what we call them ghost quests because we don't want the ghosts to feel like we're hunting them. So good, we did it. We did a ghost quest recently with past guest of on your show Darcy Staniforth at the Kellogg house down in Santa Ana. And we had some, like, we got some activity. Of course none of it ended up on camera or in our microphones, but we definitely experienced some stuff that night. So, like, Eldridge would be the best place to go do a ghost quest.
- [28:21]
B
Most definitely. And they're super chill there. They're super cool. Like, I, I asked them, I go, would it be like, would I ever be able to come back and like investigate? They're like, yeah, as long as you're staying here, you can do whatever you want. I'm like, nice, but anything I want. Anything. But, you know, you mentioned Stole Kansas earlier and I think probably a lot of people have heard of it because it's actually kind of a quasi famous, like haunted or weird location, but right outside of Lawrence Canyons, I want to say like 12 miles, maybe 10 miles, very close. There is this cemetery that I don't know when the folklore or the mythos of this place started, but it is supposedly the seventh gateway to, to hell. Yeah, I remember because I was, you know, the only weirdo of my friend group, but I would lead expeditions out there. Like when the bars would close. Probably shouldn't have been driving, but we'd pile in my Ford Explorer and like go out there and it was genuinely like terrifying. We didn't experience anything, but it was kind of one of those rite of passage places to go when you went to school there. Now, have you ever been out to stall?
- [29:22]
A
I have, yes. So, and, and years ago on, I think on our Patreon, I, I did an episode about stole and the lore. So I'm trying to remember. So I was just looking if I had my, my notes still on this laptop. But the, the, the whole thing that I had heard growing up, and there's a mix of true and not true. So the thing that I had heard growing up in the suburbs was it used to be called Skull Kansas.
- [29:49]
B
Oh, God.
- [29:50]
A
And. Which is not true. But the rumor was it used to be called Skull, but they changed the name to stole. Because there used to be the walls or the. I think not. I think the walls are gone, but I think you can still see the foundation lines. There used to be like a little chapel out there.
- [30:06]
B
Yep, that was there. There. Yeah, it was that. That was all that remained of it.
- [30:10]
A
And. And the. The. The. The lore was that there was a portal to hell at that church, that some weird had gone down there. You know, it was one of those urban legends, like no one could fully agree on the evil priest or the evil pastor or whatever, but that. That the devil himself had come out of a portal at the. In the basement of the church. And there is one of those old cellars that you would go down and put, like, wrap up, you know, like jar and put preserves and things down there to keep produce cool during the summertime because it gets very hot and humid in Kansas. And so people would go out there. A lot of people come out from the college, you know, go drink, get spooked, and then they would find this hole in the ground. And. And that's where I think a lot of the lore of like, oh, it's a gateway to hell. You know, I think it was. I think it's a lot of, like 1970s there was from. From what I recall, like, it really. This. This idea popularized in the 70s. So I think it really was like college kids coming out, hanging out in the graveyard, getting drunk and talking about, you know, creating spooky stuff.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah.
- [31:25]
A
You know.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. I.
- [31:26]
A
In it.
- [31:27]
B
First off, I love urban legends. I'm a huge fan. Two of my favorite little anecdotes that I heard when I went there was that the pope would not fly over the state.
- [31:35]
A
That's another one.
- [31:36]
B
That too, because. Not true, of course. I'm sure it's not true. And then there was one that you two would never play in Kansas City, even though they did play in Kansas City.
- [31:44]
A
Yes, yes.
- [31:45]
B
Because they were so Catholic that they wouldn't play because it's all.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah, it's so funny. But I also feel like every college town has. Every good college town has a. There's a portal to hell down the street. We, My friend and I, Dave, again, featuring heavily in this episode and my stories. We drove through, we did a road trip, and we stayed a night at the Congress Hotel in Tucson. And that has some really weird history. And there's a huge. In their, like, upstairs lobby, they have a giant coffee table that's in a Ouija board. And we were talking to one of our bartenders. We're like, what's with the Ouija board? Is this place haunted? He's like, oh, dude, there's so much weird stuff that happens here. Like, a lot of, like, violent stuff, like suicides. There was, like, a couple that had gotten an argument, and the guy walked out. Walked. March, sorry, everybody who's listening, march straight out of the hotel and in front of everyone who was eating in the downstairs restaurant, took out a gun and shot himself in the head in the parking lot. There's, like, a dark. There's like, some dark stuff there, right? And then they told us that down the street there was. In an empty lot. There was supposed to be a portal to hell there as well. So I feel like where you have a haunted hotel that's been around for over 100 years has some Western lore to it there. There's also bound to be a gateway to hell not too far from the location.
- [33:16]
B
Look, we're finding patterns here. People, you know, like, check your college towns, you know, like.
- [33:22]
A
But I. And I just think, too, especially in the west and where there's so much history of genocide and so much, I think, white guilt over how we claimed this land. I think you have a lot of. Of. Of ghost stories that seem to reflect that history, you know, and this idea of there's, you know, the land here, some of the land here is curse, you know, there's a portal to hell. And I think a lot of this stuff, like the pope won't fly over, and you two won't play here, and the devil walks out here. I think that. I think some of that has to be. And I'm shooting from the hip here, but I do feel like a lot of that has to be, like, deep trauma and guilt, generational guilt built in of be like something bad took place here. Yes, but it's not. It's not the devil showing up.
- [34:15]
B
It's Right, you know, that's the metaphor for it.
- [34:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's how we posit how we got a hold of this land. And I think that that's something that like. Like, you know, we still, as a country and still have not come to terms with, you know, so. But I. But I think, you know, I think there's. To quote Dave Matthews, there's blood in the water, man. You know what I mean? Like, I think it spurs a lot of lore, and I think it spurs a lot of. Not, obviously, not all of that comes from that I'm generalizing here, but there's just something. I don't know. The further west you get. It just kind of feels like the weirder stuff the lore gets.
- [34:52]
B
I think. I think so too. I totally agree. And like, you know, the further west you go, the newer, you know, in terms of, like, you know, white, you know, the white white man moving here, you know.
- [35:02]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [35:03]
B
It kind of just moved westward. And I do. I think. One thing I want to say is I think you were absolutely onto something to where the history of the place. Absolutely. Is part of how mythology and folklore is created.
- [35:16]
A
And it's so funny, too. You talk about it. We are. The west is way less developed still. Yeah. As far as populated as a place like California or Los Angeles is. All you got to do is like, get out. I remember, like, looking at a map of the United States, like a road map. Get. Get one that has like, all the interstates. Yeah. And take a look at the east coast and then take a look at. At the west coast. And you have. East coast is like a vast spider web network of freeways, highways, tiny little towns, tiny little villas. Like, it's so densely populated.
- [35:46]
B
Yep.
- [35:47]
A
And. And then you go. You look at California like, oh, there are miles apart between, you know, intersections of freeways and highways. It's still so for, you know, if you drive from here to San Francisco, you're going to drive through giant swaths. And in Kansas, obviously, too, where there's just empty space. And there's a different type of old haunted energy on the East Coast. You know, you really feel more connection to the old world there.
- [36:11]
B
I feel like if you do.
- [36:14]
A
I went to a wedding a few years ago in. In Pennsylvania, and we were. I went and got a drink and got lunch at a. I can't remember what town I was in. Oh, man, I wish I could remember.
- [36:27]
B
Off the top, was it on the western or eastern side?
- [36:29]
A
It was on the eastern side. So we were getting closer to, like, the New York side. And there was a, like one of these, like, I. I call them like an Ichabod Crane in. You know what I mean? It was like an old colonial in that had been there since the 15, 1600s. Like, it was old. And you're like, oh, this haunting, this. This haunted house has a very different feel than the haunted house stuff that we got out west. You know, ours always feels very cowboy based and theirs feels very like Revolutionary War based. Totally.
- [37:05]
B
Like, more pilgrimy and like in, like in the scarier. In a certain way. Like, like, you know, like when you.
- [37:10]
A
It's always like a headless horseman who frightened one of our founding fathers.
- [37:15]
B
Yeah, exactly. And it started, like, burn people alive because of it, you know, like.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah.
- [37:20]
B
The thing is, like, if you go to a cemetery, like in rural. I went and checked out a cemetery that's, you know, supposedly has activity. I didn't go at night because I was by myself and I'm scared, but I went during the afternoon and I started looking at like the oldest graves, and they're like 1875, and that's about as old as you get in a brass. So I mean, like, yeah, the Midwest and the west, they're just babies. I mean, like, they are, you know, in terms of like, you know, white man takeover, like, it is just a lot, like, newer than the East Coast.
- [37:51]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [37:52]
B
It changes the vibe.
- [37:53]
A
Like you said, there's parts of California and. And the Midwest. I would say that in the, you know, 100 years ago, still looked more like the Wild west. And it, you know, then looked like what was considered modern at the time. Time.
- [38:05]
B
Totally. Totally. So recently I came across this blog from this woman who's an academic and she writes about kind of the Hudson Valley area of New York, which is a very weird place. And her name is Professor Wham. And she has this great blog and she wrote about this place called Buck Creek, Kansas, or Buck Creek Valley, I believe it's called. And I had never heard about this.
- [38:30]
A
And it doesn't ring a bell, but.
- [38:32]
B
Right. I hadn't heard about either. And it's right outside of Lawrence, probably like 10 miles. And she was like, getting her doctorate, you know, at the time. So she was living there for like four years with her partner in the mid or late 80s, I believe. And she had. She like, rented a farm, you know, and they were just trying. You know, they lived in Lawrence for a while, but they want to get out and experience kind of like real Kansas life. So they lived in this kind of forested area on this farm, and they had all kinds of crazy activity, almost like skinwalker ranch style stuff. It was a little bit of everything weird. And then she started, like, really digging into the history and the lore. And there's like this wildlife reserve out there that she found out is like, very weird. Very, like enchanted or however you want to call it, haunted, whatever. But I had never heard about this. And so I've been digging deep into this, like, Buck Creek Valley place, and it's like, high in my list of things to check out. But had you ever heard.
- [39:26]
A
No. But it's funny, since I've done the podcast, I hadn't. I haven't. I heard Flashes. Like right now I'm looking at a. A town. I'm looking at a website. Quick Googs took me to. I don't. I don't even know how to say this town, but Geneseo. G E N E S E. I've heard of that. So this is. This is northwest of Wichita, hour and a half. So this is about halfway between KC and Wichita and would be an odd. Well, no, I take that back. I'm thinking northeast, so northwest. So this is on the opposite side. But this place has just been called. I guess It's. As of October 2023, it's going to be. It's been officially named the UFO capital of Kansas. Yeah. So I know.
- [40:14]
B
I read about this place just, just recently I read a little article about it.
- [40:18]
A
You. You know this as well as I do. And this is where I think you are a better researcher than I am. You will hear I have heard stories about UFO sightings in Lawrence. Or you'll be watching like a YouTube video and be like, a couple from Kansas was driving from Lawrence. And I'll be like, wait, wait, wait. And then I'll go online to find that story. And I can't find it anywhere.
- [40:45]
B
Yeah.
- [40:45]
A
And it's. A lot of this stuff is still only published in books and I don't spend enough time in the library.
- [40:53]
B
Right.
- [40:53]
A
And I think you spend more time in the library than I do. And I've realized that, like, I really need to. To upload my game on bcc. I need to start getting in the car and getting to the library because there's so many things that I found, like, oh, I want to quote on that and I'll find out. It's in a book that's out of print that I can't order on Amazon, and you're getting sort of like a secondhand resource or quote from that, you know. So I think there are a lot of. There is some good Kansas, like lore and UFO lore, but a lot of it I don't think is out popularized on mainstream websites that you can easily track down. Yeah. Am I wrong about that?
- [41:30]
B
No, you're a thousand percent right. Because when I first moved back here, it was like the height of the pandemic. And, you know, our business, Hollywood, whatever you want to call it, was really shut down for a while.
- [41:41]
A
Arguably never came back.
- [41:42]
B
Arguably never. I mean, like, it's. I feel like hopefully in January it starts to come normalize a little bit.
- [41:48]
A
I mean, hey, everyone, check out Bigfoot Collectors Club on Patreon while you're There.
- [41:55]
B
I know, it's.
- [41:55]
A
So send a little. Send a little support over to High Strangeness, please.
- [42:00]
B
Do we need it? It's been rough, man. I mean, the last three years have been like, wait, what? But, yeah, you know, when I first moved back here, I had kind of time on my hands, and one of the things I wanted to do was, like, really investigate eastern Nebraska. But at a certain point, if you're just going by what you can find on Google, you're like, well, there's some stuff, but you kind of hit a wall. But until I started, like, re going through my old John Keel books and valet books, I started like, you know, dog earring, all these Nebraska cases, Iowa, and, like, Kansas, kind of in the Midwest. And then it drove me out to libraries and talking to historians, and, oh, my God, the world opened up and I was like, oh, eastern Nebraska is completely weird.
- [42:40]
A
You know, it's all. It's all in books. All this stuff is. All the good stuff is in these books. And I've started to amass over my shoulder. Here, I'll show you. Like, as we've been doing the show, I'm like, well, I'm. I'm also just buying books because I use them over and over again. Something I'll be researching something. I'll be like, wait a minute, I think Linda S. Godfrey had something about that. And then I'll flip through or. Or I'll. I'll go back, you know, and I'm sure this happens to you, too. I love this world. Like, I'll be researching something, and then as I'm looking for more resources in my home library, I'll find, like, a book that I already read has, like, a brain, has something about that incident that I forgot about. And I was like, holy shit.
- [43:27]
B
Right?
- [43:27]
A
They wrote about this, too. That's great. And then I'll get something. And it's always something that you can't find online.
- [43:32]
B
No, no, in these books, oftentimes they'll have chapters devoted to one case, and then this investigator or author who wrote the book, if they did a good job, will bring forth all kinds of new details by talking to witnesses and talking to police officers from the town. So, yeah, books are still where the gold is at.
- [43:51]
A
That's where it's at, everybody.
- [43:52]
B
Now I want to take a quick detour first off. Well, before I take the quick detour, my pitch to you. Okay, okay, look. Okay, picture yourself. You're walking into a very fancy building in Beverly Hills. You're nervous because you're about ready Am.
- [44:07]
A
I wearing a tie? Because I went to straighten it.
- [44:10]
B
No, you're not wearing a tie. You're casual because you want. You know you want.
- [44:13]
A
Taking the tie, I'm tossing it in the trash can outside.
- [44:16]
B
Yeah, it's LA Cash, babe. And you're.
- [44:19]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [44:20]
B
You're coming there for a development meeting, Dodge, and I'm pitching you this idea. And. Wait, I.
- [44:25]
A
Wait, you're pitching me.
- [44:27]
B
I totally messed up. So you're the fat cat. Cigar, swimming. Oh, great.
- [44:32]
A
Okay.
- [44:33]
B
And at the desk, you know, you're grumpy. You're like, next. Next.
- [44:36]
A
I'm holding the candy dish.
- [44:38]
B
You're holding the candy dish. I walk in, I'm sweaty, I'm nervous. But I've got a pitch for you. My pitch for you is the next time you're in the Kansas area for more than a few days and have a day to spare, I drive to Omaha or I drive to. I drive to Kansas City. From Omaha, I pick you up, we grab a really fun lunch, then we go investigate this Buck Valley place.
- [45:00]
A
But I'm sold, baby.
- [45:01]
B
Then we go to the Eldridge and we'll have some fun. We'll go to the replay, we'll get a free state and get some nice burgers.
- [45:07]
A
I want to shout out 715, a great restaurant just down the block from Eldridge, like, two doors down.
- [45:12]
B
It's. It's actually amazing. I went there for the first time this summer.
- [45:15]
A
It's great.
- [45:16]
B
The food is very good, Lawrence, but I think it'd be so fun, buddy. Like, we. You know, I'll have someone come, you know, with a camera, shoot us going out there and exploring this area. But I just want to pitch that to you on air so you could.
- [45:27]
A
Steve, you don't have to pay. I mean, I will. I don't even have to come up with an excuse. I will just fly to Kansas to do this.
- [45:34]
B
This. Let's do it in the spring, man. I'm sure that'd be great.
- [45:37]
A
Perfect time to do it. We'll grab some friends that I know and we'll. We can, like, have a full. Full fun time.
- [45:43]
B
Absolutely. That would be so fun. Look at this, guys. You just witnessed a Hollywood deal come to fruition on air. That. That was not planned.
- [45:50]
A
Virtual shake.
- [45:51]
B
We shook. We just signed.
- [45:52]
A
So what have you. What have you learned about the Buck Creek County?
- [45:57]
B
Well, gosh, I. So me, I discovered this fairly recently. And what I learned so far, aside from what I learned from this wonderful blog post that I read from a person I like, respect and trust Professor Wham is her name. I learned that this place is super desolate. Really. Actually kind of heavily forested. There's a beautiful wildlife reserve there. I don't want to culturally appropriate, but there is a lot of Native American mysticism is right next to reservation land. And the. I cannot remember it. Oh, God. It's not the Kickapoo. I'm so bad with names.
- [46:32]
A
Who's in Oklahoma?
- [46:33]
B
That's Oklahoma. Missouri. Yeah, yeah, that. But I think they might have bled over into Kansas. Anyways. Yeah, it's not the Kickapoop and I can't remember the tribe, unfortunately, but they have a very spiritual connection with mysticism in that area as well. So it. The history of it goes back. I'm. I'm just. There's not a lot you can find it.
- [46:53]
A
Would it be Cheyenne?
- [46:55]
B
It maybe. It might be. I'm probably not gonna remember because I bring those mashed potatoes.
- [47:01]
A
But no, that wouldn't be the Cheyenne. All right, sorry. Go on.
- [47:04]
B
No, it's right.
- [47:05]
A
Maybe.
- [47:06]
B
Anyways, we're doing. We're doing.
- [47:07]
A
Maybe the two of us shouldn't be like figuring this out.
- [47:10]
B
Well, look, we'll have a historian with us, you know, because you and I look at the other day, we're song and dance men, you know, so kind of.
- [47:17]
A
Exactly. Yeah. We're just trying to make this stuff fun.
- [47:21]
B
O Hilton, stay.
- [47:22]
A
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- [47:42]
B
When you stay with Hilton. Instead, save up to 25% this season when you book with Hilton. Hilton for this day, terms apply. Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just.
- [47:57]
A
$8 only at McDonald's for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.
- [48:05]
B
Yeah.
- [48:05]
A
So let me.
- [48:06]
B
Let me actually. It's funny to do this in the middle of a podcast, but I am actually curious because I do feel find. I think you know, and I'm not trying to like, I don't want to sound like I'm too.
- [48:17]
A
It could have been the Kickapoo, by the way. I just want to say it might have been.
- [48:21]
B
That name sticks out to me, but I'm not certain it's them. But what I want to. What I want to ask you is because I do find the journey to Los Angeles. Interesting. And I want to know, Michael, how did you end up just saying, like, well, you know, I'm going to go to LA and become an actor. I live in Kansas because I mean, like, it is a weird risk taking thing where you're kind of like throwing a safe life away. Go, I'm going to go out there and be a minor and search for gold. Basically.
- [48:48]
A
I will, I'll stop you. Well, I'll kind of stop you there and say, I, I never saw a safe life in Kansas. And I don't want to use that, I'm using that word very lightly because like there are, you know, I was never as privileged kid, I was never in danger of any kind. But I, I, I, I knew and look, I love going back and the older I get, like I said, this is a guy who just said earlier this episode, I would love to retire in Lawrence, Kansas.
- [49:20]
B
Lawrence is different though.
- [49:20]
A
Yeah, I always felt like I had to get the, I had to get out. I had from a very young age. I was, I was one of those kids that like, while I enjoyed the, the fun stuff of being a kid, toys, video games, playing, playing pretend. I played with action figures way too late. Like, like I basically had to like, I think like, like my, my mother had to basically take them out of my hand when I was like in 8th grade. You know what I mean? I mean she did it. That didn't really literally happen, but, but you know, there just got to a point where I was like, okay, I'm too old to be playing with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you know, But I just, I want it out. I really, really want it out. And I, it might have been, I always loved New York and it might have been because I read Marvel comics and all my superhero friends were in New York. I remember visiting New York with my family when I was like in fourth grade and like staring out the taxi window and being like this, this is it, baby. This is, this is what I like, you know. And I ended up going to, I, when I was in public high school, I went through a pretty bad depressive era. I also had, I'm realizing if we want to get a little dark, there was like also like a creepy teacher who I, you know, targeted me. Nothing, I got away, nothing happened. But like, looking back now I'm like, oh, that's why you hated going to that school so much. Yeah. And that guy eventually got fired for being a predator. And, and you know, but at the time I was thinks I was so in denial that about, about that Incident. But I'm okay. I got away unscathed. I was lucky. But I hated it there. I hated my high school. I, I would wake up some mornings and just be like, I don't want to go here. And my mom, who was always very strict about like, no, you have to go to school, was like, something is up here. So anyway, I ended up going to school and I knew I wanted to be an actor by that point. And I ended up going to Interlock and Arts Academy in Michigan.
- [51:38]
B
Wonderful.
- [51:39]
A
Which also had a really great. I have a great ghost story from, from my days at Interlocking. If we have time for. I'll tell you.
- [51:45]
B
We do.
- [51:47]
A
And. And then just got really just like, devoted myself. I, I, There was another, there was another world where I would have, like, stayed in Kansas City and done, like, comic comedy, sports, and then ended up in Chicago or New York or LA through the improv thing, a hundred percent. But I got, I, like, fell hard into, like, theater geek world. And I, like, got started taking it very seriously, became a classical drama boy and then went to Carnegie Mellon. And then when I graduated from Carnegie Mellon, I thought I was going to go straight to New York, but I got some auditions out in la and I, luckily I have one of those, like, I swear it's not this easy. And now I look back and go, what the. Like, I, I like, booked like my first summer out here. I booked like three guest stars in the first month.
- [52:30]
B
The first, That's. I've never heard that, to be honest. I'm not even joking.
- [52:33]
A
Like, first month I was here, booked three guest stars, and I was like, well, obviously I have to stay here because I'd be an idiot to walk away. And that was kind of like, fell into it. But it really was. I always just had, even before my weird high school years, public high school years, like, I really just always had a sense of like, I am getting out of here one day. There was never, there was never a reality where I was going to stay in the Midwest because I just always felt, I remember trying to describe it to a friend where I was like, I feel like there's a big party happening somewhere else that I'm supposed to be at and the people there are waiting for me to join them and that, that it was just it. And I guess if you want to, like, get corny about it, maybe that's what some people would call like a calling, you know, or something. But I was like, I, I always knew that I was meant to leave, right? And there have been Many times since I've been like, maybe I made a mistake, maybe I need to go back. It's not. Yeah, I'll tell you what.
- [53:34]
B
Yeah.
- [53:34]
A
I haven't found fulfillment. You know what I mean? I don't want to. I don't want anyone to sit here and think that I'm on my high horse. And it's only gotten harder as I've gotten older, which seems insane now. I look at my friends back in the Midwest who are like, you know, their kids are getting ready to go to college. They're still young. They have like all their 401ks in great shape. They're like, they're buying their second homes and they, they're going to be like, they're still looking young and feeling young and they're going to have like the rest of their lives to, like, spend all their money. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing?
- [54:06]
B
You know? I feel you. I mean, like, I can't tell you how many times I would, like, drive to, like, a important audition. Like, you're testing for something and I'm like, this is it, baby. I have made it. I'm doing the right thing with my life. And then you bomb the audition and on the way home you're like, I have absolutely screwed myself. So, yeah, what did I do? My life is rude. I am such an idiot. Why did I think I could do this? You know, like all those, like, it's.
- [54:30]
A
I'm committed now. Like, it's too late to turn back. It's too late for me. Ten years ago, maybe. Now I'm just like, no, I'm. Whatever this turns into, I'm just going to live in it.
- [54:39]
B
So it is. But you know, I will say for all the ups and downs and like, there is massive ups and downs. You'll have a year where you're like, oh, my God, I just crushed this year. And then the next year you're like, no one will hire me for a seven. Exactly. It's so weird. And now we're living kind of in this period where the business is changing so rapidly and the money is changing and how people consume media is changing. And it's kind of scary, you know, like, because I. I just don't know. Like, I feel like if you moved out, like if, if you had moved out to LA in, let's say, 2020, how do you break in there? Don't commercials anymore, you know?
- [55:19]
A
Like, I don't, I don't know. I, I have family members who are that age that are Interested in coming out and doing this. And I don't, I don't know what. I have no good advice for them. But, but also there, there are things like Tick tock that exists now that didn't exist, you know, when we were young. And you don't. The thing is, I don't think you have to move out to LA anymore. I don't think you have to.
- [55:45]
B
You don't.
- [55:46]
A
Like, you have your own studio, you know, and, and that's also what we're learning is everyone has their own studio in their pockets. And, and God, I don't know what I would have done. I. Can you imagine if you had these phones in your pocket when you were, when we were in the, in high school, in the 90s, like, we had. If we wanted to make a movie, we had to find a friend who had a VHS camera. I did not get a camera in my hands at home until I was almost 19 years old, you know.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah.
- [56:14]
A
And by that point I'm like, headed off to college, you know, and, and so, like, I just think about all these kids today who grew up with this stuff and grow and are YouTube literate, tick tock literate, social media literate. They do. They can do so much that we couldn't do. So I, I'm not, I would, I don't even know if I would advise. No anybody to come out here.
- [56:34]
B
It depends what you. You like. It's too late for me because I, the whole, like, allure of like, acting and stuff for me is still like, I love doing any kind of performing, I truly do. But, like, I'm still stuck in the old model of, like, movies and tv.
- [56:50]
A
Me too.
- [56:51]
B
And even commercials sometimes can be, like, actually fulfilling. Yeah, but, but that is the stuff that actually, like, gets me off. Not, not to be like, you know, sexy about it, but you know what I'm saying, like, that charges my battery. That's what I'm always like, gunning for. But that world is slowly fading away, you know, to a certain degree. You know, like, it's, it's kind of one of those tough things where it's nice, you know, like you have a very successful podcast and that in that you completely control yourself. Because in our line of work, the, the amount of control you have over your career is so.
- [57:24]
A
Well, that's small. That's why I started it, you know, and, and grabbed Bryce and we grabbed Riley because I was tired of being told yes or no.
- [57:36]
B
Right.
- [57:36]
A
And I thought, you know what? Let me do a show that we can put out without permission every week. We'll build an audience. We'll have a direct connection with people. And I chose the paranormal in particular. I love it.
- [57:53]
B
Yeah.
- [57:54]
A
But also. And I love it more now than I did, I think, when I started, when we started the show. But the reason I did that is because I didn't want to do anything that had anything to do with the business. You know, I wanted. I want. So I wanted it to also be something where I knew I could, like, distract me from the thinking about auditioning and thinking about all this stuff.
- [58:14]
B
Yeah.
- [58:14]
A
And. And now if you told me, you know, six years later that it was going to take up the majority of my time, I. I may have not done it, you know, but. You know what I mean? And I. And I don't know. I don't think it's done. It's certainly not done my acting. It's not been detrimental in any way, but it's certainly not done any favors for it.
- [58:36]
B
Right.
- [58:37]
A
But. But having. Having the hardest, you know, a career in Hollywood has helped the podcast, for sure.
- [58:43]
B
That does feed the podcast for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
- [58:46]
A
But. But it's not. It's not helping or getting in the way. But I. But I do think there would be a time when, even 10 years ago or 11, certainly when we moved out, that if we were to tell an agent, hey, I'm gonna do a podcast about ghosts and aliens, it would be like, do not do that.
- [59:02]
B
Yes.
- [59:03]
A
People will think you're kooky.
- [59:04]
B
Yep.
- [59:05]
A
And they're not going to want to hire you for the three episode arc on the Connors.
- [59:09]
B
That so true. Honestly, like, I used to read mostly, like, I'm pretty. One note, in terms of the books I read, I do read a lot of books and I always have been reading, like, UFO books. Yeah. Books about Cryptids, but I would leave those in my trailer. I would not bring those to set because I was so nervous about people thinking I was insane. Like, I was really like a closeted paranormal, like, you know, enthusiast. Honestly, until, like, I think the pandemic, I'm like, I just don't care anymore. Yeah.
- [59:40]
A
Well, the pandemic also timed out with us like. Like segwaying into our mid-40s.
- [59:45]
B
Yeah.
- [59:46]
A
So it also was like, it's a wonderful time to not give a fuck. You know, there's one thing I can say about crossing the 40 threshold. And I used to hear this too. Like, oh, the 30s are so great because you're the. I'm like, my 30s sucked in a lot of ways. Like, my 20s were great.
- [60:00]
B
Yep.
- [60:00]
A
My 30s were very stressful. And I certainly am dealing with life stress. You know, you do it every, every stage, but I truly don't give a fuck anymore. And it is so nice. And, and I had to start today. Maybe it was just sort of like thinking ahead about this show and knowing that, like, you were out in Nebraska, you know, and we're not in LA full time anymore. I, the, the wonderful thing too is like arriving at that point is you can start to go, okay, so my. What, what I thought things, what I thought my career would look like at this age, when I was 20, and imagined 25 years down the line or, you know, two decades down the line. It's not that. No, you know what I mean? It didn't. Some things great happened, some things that I've wanted have happened. I've had successes that certainly other people come out here to and, and attempt this, have not had. So there's so like a pat on the back for that stuff. Now I think I'm finally at the age where I can forgive myself for not achieving all those other dreams, quote, unquote, and going, okay, it didn't play out the way that you had envisioned it, but it's still playing out. And now you can start from today and go, where would you like to take it now? You know, and that's, that's, that's what I try to do with the show. And I'm trying to do it. The career is like, okay, great, so you know what? I can go. You know what? Steve and I can go do a ghost. That's something I can do. You know, Exactly. We can go to Bluff Creek and spend three days and investigate and have a fucking blast.
- [61:37]
B
Yeah. And we can shoot it and actually, like, you know, it could turn to something like, we're like, wow, that's actually pretty good. I think this will entertain people. And that's what we do. We entertain it out. So we put it out.
- [61:47]
A
We just did for that Kellogg house hunt I've been sitting today and I have to do some more for our Patreon. You know, I've got an iPhone 15 and I bought a little rig and a light for it. And you know what? It's not. I'm not doing like extensive editing or coverage, but I'm looking at the playback on this thing. We're putting it up on our YouTube. We're putting it up on our Patreon. I'm like, this is a fun little found footage ghost hunting documentary.
- [62:12]
B
Yep.
- [62:12]
A
There's Little bits and pieces here. This is. This is very doable. Yeah. So here we are being like the adults who are discovering the studio, the movie studios in our pockets that I was talking about that all these kids already know.
- [62:23]
B
But you, you kind of nailed it for me because I feel like I have had this realization and probably start. Because I started this podcast as a way to not go insane during the writers strike.
- [62:32]
A
Yeah.
- [62:32]
B
Like, I've been thinking about doing a podcast for literally, like seven, eight years. And when the writer strike happened, like, I remember my agent saying, like, this might be kind of a long one. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, and I don't do well with idle time. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, I had to start a podcast, so I did. But what I have realized is that I need, like, creating stuff yourself. If you're. If we're not doing that as people who make our living in front of cameras, you know, like, then what are we doing? We're missing such an opportunity. And also just like. And I'm not saying, like, oh, it can equal, you know, massive financial success if you can make some money on it. Wonderful. I have no issues with that, but just fulfilling. Because even when I go up by myself with a GoPro and will film myself at a graveyard where a Bigfoot supposedly braided an American flag from. From Vietnam, I'm in front of the camera and I'm like, performing in a way where I'm like, oh, this feels like satisfying.
- [63:30]
A
Steve. We. We just. God damn it. We're just turning into middle aged white dudes about Bigfoot on camera.
- [63:35]
B
I know it's happening, man, but, like, I'm embracing it and I'm. I'm actually really enjoying it. And now watch me Segway in the. In the roughest way, because I have probably 5,000 questions written down and I've gotten to half of one, which is a great sign. Which is a great sign. But you have now been doing your podcast. I want to you say six years?
- [63:58]
A
Yeah, we crossed six years in. In October.
- [64:02]
B
Congratulations.
- [64:03]
A
So this is a. This is. We're. We're working on year seven right now.
- [64:06]
B
Oh, man, I love it. Your show's so wonderful. It's so inspiring to me.
- [64:09]
A
Thanks.
- [64:11]
B
You embrace. Have a great chemistry. Oh, and Riley, all you guys, it's just so good. I can't say enough great things about everyone. If you haven't heard it, you have to listen.
- [64:19]
A
Bryce and I also talked about how we just.
- [64:20]
B
We.
- [64:21]
A
We really lucked out with Riley. Like, Riley is like a virgin. I mean, Riley's a superstar. Like, Riley can pick up any instrument and play it. He's an audio engineer wizard. He's also a fantastic on mic talent, you know, and, you know, in the early days, he was. He didn't even. He wasn't even connected to a microphone. He was just running the session. And slowly, over time, we just realized, like, we have a third host sitting here that is, like, needs to be part of the show, you know? Yeah, yeah, we just. We struck gold. I don't think that that's a. That's a rare. It's a rare thing. So, like, well, Riley is really like a testimony to the organic nature of projects. And, like, if you hire the right people or you collaborate with the right people, like, something brand new will emerge out of it.
- [65:08]
B
And he's.
- [65:09]
A
I safely can say he is a fan favorite of the show.
- [65:13]
B
He's incredible.
- [65:14]
A
He's truly a star. Yeah, Yeah.
- [65:16]
B
I mean, the chemistry is so wonderful, and good chemistry is undeniable. And if there's good chemistry on a podcast, movie, whatever, and they're talking about, like number two pencil erasers and something, I don't care about if the chemistry is good, I'm there for it, man. There's something just intoxicating about it, and you guys have that in spades.
- [65:37]
A
Thank you.
- [65:37]
B
What I want to ask you, Michael. Yeah. Is now you've been like, really kind of a. At least semi pro weirdo for six years, and you've had a lifelong interest in this stuff. Have you found that the way you see, like, let's say Bigfoot, for example, or UFOs or ghosts? Have you found that doing the show and looking deeper into the stuff has evolved your thinking in terms of, like, what these manifestations are, what they represent, etc?
- [66:10]
A
Oh, for sure. Although I. I will say yes. And certainly in some ways specifically, very, very, very much so. I mean, let's start with the. Let's start with just UFOs in general. I think I used to be a very nuts and boltsy. They're here from Zeta Reticuli.
- [66:33]
B
Yeah.
- [66:34]
A
There's a wormhole. They know that there. And when people would be like, yeah, but it would take this long to get here. From there, I'd be like, they found a way around it. They have. All they need is at least a thousand years ahead of us and they'll figure it out. You know wormholes, baby. Yeah, wormholes. Yeah. I mean, it's also very lazy, but, yeah, so I was always very nuts and bolts, obviously. Like, my thoughts about the whole UFO phenomenon is really, you know, I've sort of like taken, you know, if the, if the, if all the Legos used to be in the box, I've tipped it upside down and now they're scattered everywhere. And I'm like, some of these are yellow, some of these are red. I know that they go together. But I, but I threw out the instructions and I don't, you know, I, I can't figure out exactly what, what image all of this is supposed to make or what 3D model this is all making. I can kind of guess by just eyeballing the pieces, but I don't think it's all it was. It's not all this physical thing from another planet in the way that I used the way I used to believe Bigfoot's kind of in the same camp. Bigfoot's funny because the more you do the research.
- [67:43]
B
Yep.
- [67:43]
A
About the history stuff. We just did a three part History of Bigfoot series last summer. And you know, I used to die on the hill for the Patterson Gimlin film.
- [67:58]
B
Yeah.
- [67:59]
A
And I see the points, you know, Bryce and I will debate it. And once you research what was going on, the time and the place, the characters involved, some of the other stuff where people like, yeah, we knew it was fake and we know the guy who did it, you know.
- [68:13]
B
Right.
- [68:14]
A
I've gotten a lot, I've gotten very skeptical when it comes to anybody who's popped out to say they have like the proof of Bigfoot. Right. I start to think a lot of this stuff, especially in the 50s, was done for publicity and to like get a roadshow that you could take around town, you know, take around the country, tour around Canada and make some money.
- [68:39]
B
The Minnesota Iceman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [68:41]
A
Well, you just learn there's such a direct lineage between that stuff and like P.T. barnum.
- [68:47]
B
Absolutely. I was just gonna say that. Absolutely.
- [68:50]
A
That being said, I do think there's a phenomenon that is whatever the Bigfoot phenomenon is.
- [68:57]
B
Yeah.
- [68:58]
A
And I don't know what the fuck is going on there. And I do think there are genuine encounters. I do think that people have genuinely see this stuff. I think some of this stuff has been captured on camera, you know what I mean? But I just don't know if the, if the iconic things like the Patterson Gimlin film that we're pointing at as the definitive proof are really that. Now, again, I sort of tend to remain agnostic about this stuff. So I'm not, I don't come down too hard on Believing it or not believing it. I love the lore, I love the stories. The kitschier, the weirder. Sometimes the more faky man made stuff, the better. I like any cryptid that looks like a costume from a 1960s Star Trek episode. You know, I love, like, I love the Hopkinsville goblins. I love the Flatwoods monster. I love a lot of these one off creatures and characters that people don't necessarily see a lot of. There's nothing I love more aesthetically than a, than a white yeti with a blue face. You know, like the, like the, the, like any stuff like that, anything that looks like it walked off the COVID of a 1950s Golden Key comic book, man, it just has my heart. So I guess, I guess a long winded way of answering your question. I used to think of these things as being very terrestrial or extraterrestrial or physical, and now I tend to think of them being way more ethereal and more in line with whatever we call ghosts and the supernatural might be. And that's where I am today.
- [70:43]
B
Right.
- [70:44]
A
In a week from now, I might be back to. I don't know, back to some sort of physical realm. But you had Joshua Kutchin on the show not too long ago. And I just kept going, yes, yes, yes to everything that you guys were saying. I really think that whatever is at play is weirder than anything that we can wrap our brains around. And the more I research this, I go, oh, this would, this would be like me trying to explain the most recent Republican debates to my dog, you know?
- [71:20]
B
Yeah.
- [71:21]
A
So. Because they have zero context for the American political system, let alone the United States of America, let alone the, the, the, the, the like globe or the humans concept of what the planet is. Right. And so you're like, okay, well, if I have to. Okay, let me tell you, okay, so here's why Vivek Ramaswamy is a douchebag. My dog has to go, whoa, whoa, wait, slow down, slow down. What's a douchebag? Exactly. I think that we are in a similar position with reality in the universe at large. And I think there might be intelligence out there or beyond here. Sure. That have the perspective that we don't, but we do in relation to our pets at home, you know?
- [72:14]
B
Yep.
- [72:15]
A
And every now and then, like, I've probably said this on the show, but to me, I don't think there's any difference between an alien abduction that a human experiences and my dog going to the vet.
- [72:30]
B
Yeah.
- [72:31]
A
It is a terrifying. For my dog Violet. It's a terrifying Encounter where she's taken away from her safety's place. She's taken. Oftentimes taken away from her daddy and taken into a room where there's bright white lights. They poke at her, they do things. She doesn't understand why it's happening. And I'm sitting there going, this is for your own. It's, trust me, it's for your own good. But I can't explain it to her. I can't. There's no, I have no context there to have it again, I have to be like, well, okay, so the vaccination. Right, okay. But before we get to vaccinations, we have to get to viruses and we have to get to bacteria, and I have to teach you about bacteria. You know what I mean? And then my dogs would be like, I don't know. Oh, treats. I just want treats. And I want, I want my home and I want good smells and I want my, my other animals in the house, you know? So I think they're just concepts that are so beyond our grasp that we're never gonna fucking really know what's going on. You know, if, if there's something here now, science could come down the road and say, oh, well, we discovered that there's a thing that we didn't have a name for, where our brains are. So turns out our brains have some sort of hologram projection ability that we didn't know about. And it uses this, this sort of WI fi network that is naturally in the air that we didn't know about because we couldn't see it. And turns out when you have a lot of people hanging out in a global community sharing stories, sharing images, sharing movies, sharing. Sharing concepts, sometimes like when we go to bed at night and we dream and we see things that aren't really there, sometimes those things get projected in our physical reality. Yes. And we didn't know that that was possible. And it turns out all of this is. Is human generated.
- [74:20]
B
Yeah.
- [74:20]
A
Or naturally generated.
- [74:22]
B
That's still, to me, just as interesting.
- [74:24]
A
Yeah.
- [74:24]
B
You know what I'm saying? Like, and that really is kind of the Jungian perspective. And one thing, I just don't want to forget to point this out. I think you kind of, you brought the last five minutes, the way you were talking and how you said you're agnostic to all this stuff. I am too. I am a fence sitter for life. And like you said, ask me what I think about this stuff today and then ask me a week later, it's going to be different. Right. So it's constantly evolving, which is fun because you're getting new data and so you can change your mind based on this data. But one thing I have noticed with people like you and myself and other people I've had in the show is that we all kind of start from this place of flesh and blood, Bigfoot, of nuts and bolts, UFOs. And then as you go along and gather more information, two things happen. One, you become really skeptical.
- [75:13]
A
You know, I'm saying skeptical of people. Skeptical people with an agenda.
- [75:17]
B
That's exactly right in terms of like, you know, disclosure and all that stuff. And then you also be start leaning harder into the higher strange cases and the weirdness. Because for so long in the 70s and 80s, all these kind of, you know, UFO repositories like MUFON or the BFRO and things like that, they were purposely keeping a lot of the weird aspects of these cases out because they wanted to be taken seriously by sightings. And for a long time, MUFON wouldn't even report like, encounters with entities. They were just like, no, let's just.
- [75:51]
A
Talk about too far, going too far, too far.
- [75:53]
B
We want to be taken seriously. And I feel like the need to be taken seriously when it comes to 40 on the paranormal is the wrong way to look at it. Like, who cares? Like, I mean, if it's a problem for science to fix, great, they will do that. I'm not a scientist, but what I.
- [76:09]
A
Can do, and there might be scientists listening who heard what I just said and they're like, no, no, no, buddy, it doesn't work that way.
- [76:15]
B
You're high man.
- [76:16]
A
Your mind doesn't work like that.
- [76:17]
B
Yeah, but, but that they know of though. That's the thing about science. It's kind of a tool to like, understand the world around us at the moment. But it's constantly changing and evolving, you know, like. But I just do think that if you're not sort of willing to, like, I think anyone who's certain in these fields of study is somebody I'm kind of like turned off from when someone's like, well, this is what UFOs are, you know, like, this is what Bigfoot is. I'm like, ah, wow.
- [76:47]
A
How.
- [76:47]
B
I mean, like, if you know that, cool, I'm interested, but I need to see your data how you came to that conclusion.
- [76:53]
A
Right, right. And it's. Yes, yes. You know, it's also funny too, because as we're, we're talking about this stuff, I also want to say all of this stuff could be true about the higher weird strangeness of it, that it's some sort of. I don't know, that there's some sort of psychic interaction or some interdimensional thing or whatever. And there still could be an undiscovered, as Bryce likes to say, undiscovered North American wood ape running around out there. There's still could. There still could be nuts and bolts, UFOs coming from here, from other planets, because I absolutely believe that there is life on other planets. I'm not pretty agnostic about that.
- [77:34]
B
Sure.
- [77:35]
A
I just think we happen to be in a backwater part of the galaxy and it's harder for other things to get here. But I'm so, like, those things could be happening and there could be this other weird interdimensional or psychic phenomenon taking place on top of that. You know what I mean? So. So it doesn't have to be either. Or it could be all of the above.
- [77:56]
B
And I think that's a good way. Until I'm proven otherwise. That's kind of where I'm at. I'm at. Because in terms of, like, nuts and bolts, UFOs or flesh and blood, Bigfoot, those could be definitely tangible, real physical objects, but I don't think it represents all of what the phenomenon is. So, for example, I mean, like, whatever the phenomenon is could be mimicking aliens from another planet. Yeah, it could be mimicking, like, for example, like, if you go online and you look at the BFRL. Well, there's like 14, I think, historically, Bigfoot sightings in Nebraska, which is, for the most part, flat, not forested. A place you would never think Bigfoot is. But since I've been digging deeper, there's modern cases, there's Bigfoot sightings currently happening in, like, northeast Nebraska. How the hell is it possible? Like, you know, like, I just. I have a hard time believing that you would not find some kind of physical proof.
- [78:53]
A
Yeah. Toast the holidays in a new way.
- [78:56]
B
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- [79:19]
A
All rights reserved. So good. So good.
- [79:24]
B
So good. New markdowns are on at your Nordstrom rack store.
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A
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B
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A
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B
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- [79:51]
A
And then there's encountering stuff yourself, you know, which, which I have. And there's been things where I'm like.
- [79:59]
B
Do you mind sharing a little bit?
- [80:00]
A
Oh, of course, I'm happy to. I mean I've, I've told these stories on, on, on Bigfoot Collectors Club a number of times, but, but like I just was going to preface it by saying that like. And when you have an encounter that really impacts you, it really makes you go, I don't know what the fuck just happened, but I can tell you with minute detail what I saw. And I wasn't the only individual there in both of my big, big ones. The first one took place in Interlockin when I, my senior year of high school over. In between my junior and senior year of high school we had a. There was a little theater named the Groano Theater, which is where we had our. My acting class took place in there and some student directed performances took place. It was an old 1920s theater, not much bigger or honestly maybe about the size of a barn, you know, that had a front room and a backstage with a couple, you know, side rooms. Looks like a cabin in the woods. Kind of awesome. Sitting on a lake overlooking a lake. Glass. That wasn't Glass Lake, it was Green Lake. Oh God, my memory now. So now people are going to believe me, but Grunel Theater was named after a seven year old girl who drowned in the lake one summer when she was a camper. So it's almost like a Jason Voorhees thing.
- [81:33]
B
Very much so.
- [81:34]
A
And they named the theater after her. And the moment you arrived at school, the other kids who'd been, had already been going to school there would tell you that Lois haunted the Gruno Theater. And this would manifest in ways like because we would have access to the theater, we'd sign up to rehearse, you know, scene studies and stuff in there and you would hear weird sounds coming from the back. Or you'd have one thing over here and you'd rehearse your scene and you turn in your prop would be in a different place and no one had moved it. My junior year we made a homemade Ouija board and we started asking things and getting. There's like a group of like eight or nine boys in the dorm doing this. And we take turns getting on with a partner. And we'd be like, who's out there? Is anybody out there? And it would just do stuff like, crg. Ntry crg. Ntry crg. Just like gibberish or, like static. And we'd be like, all right, well, we're not getting anything. But we had someone, one of us had the foresight to be like, whatever happens, write it down, right? And then the only, like, clear thing that we got on there was. I got on, and it said, mike's blood.
- [82:54]
B
Oh, wow.
- [82:56]
A
And the other thing it said was, tny frm like ny tnifrm ny over and over and over. And I was like, mike's blood. That's weird. And maybe I thought, well, I was like, well, maybe someone's with me. And then there. Oh, the other one was my friend Donovan got on, and it said, T R I D I C T R I D I C T R I D I c Over and over and over. And we were like, what is this? We. We weren't getting any answers, like, who are you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And suddenly I went, well, that's funny, because I did cut my shin today in Gruno, and I bled. I bled in the theater. Whoa. And so I did bleed in Gruno today, rehearsing a scene. I tripped over some prop furniture because I'm very coordinated. And then we started looking at the list, and we realized when I was on there, it also said, tny frm and why? And we were like. And we started sounding these things out phonetically. And it said. And we were like, well, this sounds like Tony from ny Tony from New York. And I was doing a. I was doing my friend. What I had been working on was a scene from. Oh, gosh, I'm blanking on his name. Not Sam Shepard. It's the guy who wrote Moonstruck. Oh, John Patrick Shanley. I was doing a John Patrick Shanley play where I played a character named Tony, and it took place in New York, and that was in the Gruno theater. And then Donovan, who was on, where it said, T R I D I C were like, try dick. And then we thought Richard iii, and he was doing a scene from Richard III in his Shakespeare class. It was in Gruno. And then the other guy, who. Where it said, crg ntry, we sounded that out, and it said Craig and Terry. And he wrote a play called Removing the Head where the two main characters were named Craig and Terry in the play.
- [84:54]
B
Whoa, dude.
- [84:55]
A
And this was all shit. After we got off the. The thing. And we were trying to make sense of what this was like. I get goosebumps thinking about it. So still, because at the time, none of it was making sense. And then once we were like, wait, I bled. We were like, is this. Could that have been Lois? And then we all realized that she was associating us with the last time we had been in, like, as if she'd been watching all of the things that we'd been doing. And she was like, you're the guy who did Richard iii. You're the guy who did the play. You bled today in the theater, and you're playing Tony in New York. Like you. She had identified all of us through this little code that she was doing repeatedly over and over and over again. So that was like. We were like, holy shit. Right? And then. So the. The year after that, the summer in between that year, the fire marshal came in. Sorry, this episode's about to get really long. So the fire marshal came in and shut down the theater, gutted all the seats. They were like, this place is going to go up in flames in a minute if something goes wrong in here. So we were all really sad because it limited what we. We could still have class in there, but we couldn't rehearse in there anymore. We couldn't do plays in there anymore. It was like a really sacred place. And we all felt sad for. For Lois, too, because by this point we're all, like, really connected with her and thought she was real. And the night before class, this, it was. It was, you know, still late summer, so it was still bright out. It was around 7 o'. Clock. I said to my friend Sadie, I was like, I haven't seen Gruno yet. She goes, is really sad. They tore everything out. She's like, we can peek in the windows and you can see what it's like in there. I was like, oh, I just. I'd like to go before we go to class tomorrow because I'm going to be bummed. So we were walking down the hill towards Grono, and suddenly I stopped dead in my tracks because I had like, the biggest rush of chills come over my body. And I look over at Sadie and she looks like a deer in headlights. And I was like, do you feel that? She's like, yeah, now look, we're drama kids at a drama school in the middle of the woods. We're prone to getting excited about things. Sure. And then a couple people walked around from behind a cabin. And I was like, oh, okay, all right. There's People here. All right? So I kept walking towards. And she goes, no, no, no, something is really weird. And I go, yeah, I still feel it. And without saying anything, I just looked at the window that would have been in. That looked into the. That would have been the. The. The girls dressing room. And it was the faced. The. The walkway that we were coming down. And I'm. I don't know, 30 yards from the building. And I'm looking maybe closer than. Maybe like 20 yards. I'm looking at the window, and I just start to fixate on the window. And the screen of the window was bent to where the sunlight was shining into the room. And sitting at the window, I watched, like, a Polaroid picture coming into focus. I saw the face of a little girl looking out at Sadie and me. And the longer I looked, the more it came into a clear picture. Just like a Polaroid. You could see, like, the shadows of the eyes, and I could see the nose. I could start to see the bridge of the nose to eyebrows. And I could see her hair parted and braided into pigtails.
- [88:22]
B
So this. I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but. So this wasn't like apparition at all. It looked like a physical.
- [88:27]
A
It was very pale. It was very pale. It was. It. It looked on. It looked like if you took the saturation out of a. Out of a picture, right? Okay, so it was very pale, I will say that. But it wasn't like floating. It wasn't wispy. It was like looking at a physical per. But it was also like. It started as like a blob. Like. Like, you know, you. It's. It literally looks like a Polaroid picture. You know, if you. If you. If you remember watching those come into focus where you'd see, like a blobby pale outline. And the longer you looked at it, the more it came into focus, right? It looked just like that. So at first I saw like a blob, and then I watched a blob take form. And once I saw. Once I saw her hair and the pigtails, I thought to myself, this is like, maybe over the course of 10 seconds, right? I go, well, my mind is playing tricks on me. And that's when Sadie next to me said, michael, can you see her pigtails?
- [89:33]
B
Oh, my God.
- [89:35]
A
And that's the first thing that we had said. So we both, like, locked arms and we're watching. And then the curtain moved. The curtain opened wider. There was nobody. And I was like, okay, I gotta get a closer look at this. And she was like, I am not getting any closer. And I walked towards the building and as you walk down the, the. The grade of the hill dropped to. So by the time you get to that window and I was six foot tall at this point in high school, the windows over my head, the windows about 8ft off the ground. So I walk down and I'm. I'm kind of looking at my shoes walking down there because I'm so scared. And I look up and sitting at the edge, sitting at the edge of the windowsill was a young girl, stone, like very pale, like, like carved out of stone, almost looking down at me out of the corner of her eye. I could see the white of her eyeballs.
- [90:36]
B
Oh my God.
- [90:37]
A
And it was like the, it, it. You know when you meet people, you're like, oh my gosh. They just like radiate so much life, right? This had like a negative feeling where you're like a coldness, a like, like radiating death and cold. Like it had like a very Victorian sense about it as I look back and think about it. But it was like full just sitting there. And I, My brain went, oh, that's one of the. No, that's not a student. Because the door is like, oh, that's my. That's my teeth. Nope, they're not home. They would. Why would they be in there? Like my brain started to go, here's a rational explanation for what you're looking at. And then I remember it just started spinning and it felt like a Rolodex style, the old paper Rolodex styles that people used to keep. It felt like my brain just started to flutter as it tried to find a rational explanation for what I was looking at. And then it was like red alarms went up and went. Does not compute. I don't know what this is. And that's when I got scared and screamed and ran back to Sadie and I got back to her and all the chills dropped and we looked back at the window. Nothing there. There's. Except for the back of a chair that was pulled up against to the window that I couldn't see before. So it was. I mean it was like I. The, like it was from what I understand a ghost to be. That was a ghost. And it was.
- [92:07]
B
Oh my God.
- [92:08]
A
It was like full formed and. And it me up. Like I was obviously into all this shit, but I had nightmares, I had night terrors after this. I started to go, how could this happen? How could like, like what does this mean? If you die and you're a little girl and you're still here. Like, I was like, how. Like, I remember, you know, I'm not a super religious person. I'd grown up Presbyterian. But I was like, why? You know, I remember thinking like, why, if there's a God, why would God let this happen? You know, I was like, sort of like, that's not fair to her. It's also very scary, you know.
- [92:41]
B
Right. I mean, that's. That, that is a. I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but that is a confirmation experience. Is. I mean, especially when you have another witness.
- [92:51]
A
Yes.
- [92:51]
B
You think the same thing.
- [92:52]
A
Yeah.
- [92:53]
B
I mean, like my follow up question was going to be, had this change your life and worldview? And it sounded like it definitely had a big impact.
- [93:00]
A
Well, and it was one of those experiences that now when I hear people tell stories and say, I don't care what anybody says, and I don't know what I was looking at, but I know what I saw.
- [93:13]
B
Yeah.
- [93:13]
A
I go, I get it. I get it because I've been there. Because we also told a lot of people who thought we were lying and thought we were making it up or thought we were seeing something. And I will say that I don't think everybody could see it.
- [93:27]
B
Right.
- [93:27]
A
And I think I was seeing. I will say Sadie was clearly tapped in and saw exactly what I saw. I mean, the fact that she saw her fucking pigtails at the same. Same time I did.
- [93:37]
B
Yeah.
- [93:38]
A
But I will say, and I have, I've never said this before, talking about it, I felt like I was seeing more than just with my eyes. I do think that, you know what I mean, like I had a sense of, like, I'm not just looking with my eyeballs here. I'm seeing something with some other extra sense in some way.
- [94:00]
B
Michael, there. Well, there are some really interesting things I feel like I have to point out. And that is so this guy I really respect named George Hansen, who wrote this wonderful book called the Tricks from the Paranormal, and he talks about liminality, is largely what the book kind of drives home. And boy, talk about a liminal time. It was your last period of being at this place, this, this building. The. Sorry, wasn't. What's it called again, the gronaum Grono was being altered which as we know something you've, you know, you heard the thing where like, oh, you mess with the land or you do an addition to your house, you're going to get activity.
- [94:36]
A
It's also the end of the summer season, coming into the fall.
- [94:40]
B
There's all kinds of these It's a very transitional phase for you. A transitional phase for the seasons. And they're changing the building.
- [94:48]
A
Yeah. So it's like the spirit too.
- [94:50]
B
This was kind of like the perfect time in this confluence of events. I mean, like, it's. It's funny because, like, as you're telling the story, I'm like, wow, I've heard these, these motifs before many times. And like, then you kept. Kept on going. I'm like, I've heard that too. Like, I mean, so this really falls into a category of a lot of like, liminal aspects leading up to this high strange event, which is, first off, fantastic story. That is truly one of the most terrifying ghost stories I've ever heard my life. My legs are cold right now.
- [95:24]
A
I still get goosebumps. My. The hair still stands up on my arms when I tell this story. You know, every time I've told it, I get. I get that feeling again, you know? And I've never had anything like that ghost wise. Right since.
- [95:39]
B
Right.
- [95:42]
A
But when we were. When we did the Kellogg House the other week, I did see something move out of the corner of my eye that was like pale and kind of smoky and wispy. That was behind a door frame that we of course, didn't get on camera. And it did look like the same color as Lois looked. You know, it's. It's like if you took a photo of somebody and then just sucked the saturation out of it. And it's very. Here's the other thing with this story and the other one that I'd like to tell if we have time, please.
- [96:12]
B
My God.
- [96:13]
A
There are. There are elements of both of these stories that are so cliche and so on the nose about the phenomenon that you almost feel stupid telling them because you're like, oh, you saw a pale white little girl. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, I know, I know this sounds like. Like I couldn't. Like if I wrote that scene into a movie, they'd be like, well, we've kind of seen this a million times.
- [96:36]
B
That's a little cliche.
- [96:40]
A
But the other thing I experienced was very much that way too. So when we hear these consistencies in these stories, it makes me really think, well, maybe that's the way this works. Right?
- [96:53]
B
Maybe that's the mechanation of it.
- [96:55]
A
Yeah. If it looks. If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck. It's probably a duck, you know? So I. I don't know if you want me to tell that if I should.
- [97:04]
B
I do no, please, please, please. This is wonderful.
- [97:07]
A
So, again, apologies if you're a BCC listener, if you heard this, but you've no, you know, you've not heard Steve's take on it. So. Yeah, this one happened more recently. This was summer of 2016, I believe it was June 29, 4:44 in the morning, interestingly. I don't know. There's. There's. There's a. There's. There's a weird connection here that I could, I can maybe, maybe save for after the. After this story. Maybe I'll save it for after. But I was asleep in my bedroom here in the apartment where we're recording this. I was just in this room and I used to have a bulldog named Alby who passed. That's the pet who passed in 2020. So I have another terrier, Violet, who's still with us, and she always sleeps with me in the bedroom. And Alby would oftentimes sleep out on the couch in the living room. And my living room overlooks the build the driveway to the building. And it's sort of like shoebox shaped. And there are a few units, a few downstairs and a few up upstairs. And this is just to give you the layout. And there's a window next to my front door that overlooks the driveway. And people are constantly walking back and forth past part. It's one of the things as I'm. I'm becoming older, I'm like, I really wish I didn't live in a. In a fishbowl, you know what I mean? So still to this day, it might happen while we're recording if there's a stranger walking by my dog's bark, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I woke up and heard a low growl coming from the living room where Albie was. And I woke up and I heard him going, you know, And I was like, oh, this is his kind of his warming up the gun here, you know? Yeah, this is him loading, loading the chambers.
- [99:02]
B
Safety is off.
- [99:03]
A
Yeah, save 60s coming off. And I wasn't scared. I was just listening to him growl. And I was like, I remember that my neighbor at the time, he used to. He was a PA on film and TV sets. And I thought, well, Kyle's probably just coming home and unlocking his door and Albie's asleep and growling. But then I started to hear him start to do woof, woof. And I was like, and now Violet is waking up and her head's perfect, perking up and looking out towards the living room. And I look over the clock, see, it's 4:44. And I was like, oh God, he's about to bark and wake up the whole building. So I'm going to go out there and shush him. So I was lying in bed for about 20 seconds going, Do I get up? Do I get up? And then he just starts going. Violet shoots out of bed, starts barking, runs out in the living room. Then she goes into high pitch guard dog barking. So now I'm jumping out of bed. Now I will say I did not grab my glasses because I was running out there to shut up my dogs. My eyesight is much worse now than it was then. And I do think had I had my glasses on, I would have had a much clearer image of what I'm about to describe. But I still feel like I got, I saw exactly what I needed to see to describe what, what happened. So I run out to the living room or run out into my hallway and I've got a direct shot of the window and I see there is a figure at the window. And, and there's. I can see ahead in silhouette because outside my curtains are drawn and they were white, so it's kind. And there were, there are lights in the little gravel well outside of my window where there's some trees planted, some little bushes and stuff. And there are lights that come on that are sort of like the floor, floor lights of an old, you know, proscenium stage. So anything standing between those lights and my window, their silhouette is going to be projected onto my, my drapes like a screen or scrim. And I see ahead look almost like looking in, peering through the, the curtains. And I go, oh, well, there's someone trying to break into my apartment. That's why he's losing his shit, right? And then as I'm looking at this, I realize that all I'm seeing is a head that is shaped like an inverted spoon. And then a long thin neck coming up from the edge of the window. I don't see shoulders, I don't see any body, whatever this thing is, is three and a half, four feet tall and it's a long neck and a classic alien gray shaped head. What? And I go, well, that looks, I thought to myself, well, and dogs are going apeshit, by the way. And again I'm getting the goosebumps and I go, well, that looks like a fucking alien. Like I wasn't even scared. And then as I had that thought, the figure turned its head and it undulated like this.
- [102:13]
B
Oh God.
- [102:14]
A
And I could see a thin, I mean we're talking thin, like lamp, lamp, like. Like floor lamp. Thin neck, like, you know, like, thin, like micro. Like microphone stand thin. I could see it undulate. The figure turned its head, and I could see where the neck and the skull fused together at the back. And it looked like a short golf wedge. I'm not a golfer, but it almost looked like a. The way the golf clubs. The head of a golf club is connected to the. The. The. The stick. Whatever you want to call it. Sorry. And when it moved like that, I went, oh, yeah. And I. I would have done everything differently now, but this was all pure reaction. And I flipped on the light next to me, and this thing takes off. It runs. It runs away, like, back up the driveway. My dogs are going fucking nuts. I run out to my patio, and I look up the driveway where it ran. I don't see anything. I look over. My neighbor Kyle comes out in his bathrobe, and we're close enough that we can talk to each other. You know, we have, like, a little sidewalk separating us. He goes, what's going on? And I go. I didn't want to say alien, you.
- [103:34]
B
Know what I mean?
- [103:37]
A
I just go, someone was. Someone was looking in the window, and it scared the dogs. And he. And. And he goes, dude, are you serious right now? I was like, yeah. And. And. And I was like, I. So, like, I grabbed my shoes, grab my glasses, we did a sweep of the building. Nothing. I couldn't find anything. Come back. And he's like, dude, you're freaking me out right now. And I go, why? Oh, I. First of all, I go, do me a favor, Kyle, this is going to sound silly, but will you stand right here. Yeah.
- [104:05]
B
Yeah.
- [104:05]
A
While I go back inside? And I went back, I took off my glasses, I looked at him, and the silhouette was a night and day difference. First of all, he was way tall, and Kyle's like, 5 11. You could see the shoulders. You could see the head. I'm like, now duck down. And he's like, ducking down. Not the same shape. Not the same shape. Not the same silhouette. Clear. Different conference. And I go back out. He's, like, smoking a cigarette, and he's like, dude, he goes, you're freaking me out. And I go, why? And he goes, well, I got home from set an hour ago, and. And his, like, patio doors were wide open, by the way, in summertime. So he goes. He's like, I've been watching Netflix on my laptop in my bedroom, and I kept taking off my headphones and looking around my apartment. Because I felt like something was watching me. And I was like, well, there was something here. And later I told him more, and he was like, dude, that's creepy. Don't tell me that. But this was like, if the dogs had not been reacting to it, I would have thought I was hallucinating this. This thing, because it was so. But I. You know, I was awake for longer than 30 seconds in bed. I was standing on my own two feet looking at this. And I, like, it looked like the tall. Well, it wasn't tall because I went out and there's so many things differently I would have done. I would have looked for prints. I would have done so many other things at the time. This is before I was doing the podcast.
- [105:34]
B
You know, I will say you had a pretty good wherewithal to do the. To do a lot of this stuff, though, that you tested him in the window.
- [105:40]
A
And immediately.
- [105:41]
B
Yeah, I was like, I mean, that's really good thinking, actually. My compliments.
- [105:45]
A
Thanks. But I was like, you know. You know at the end of Close Encounters when, like, all the little childlike grays come out, and then there's a skinny. The spindly one standing and waving at everybody.
- [105:55]
B
Horrifying.
- [105:56]
A
It looked just like. From the neck up, it looked just like that in silhouette. Now, if I had my glasses on, I think my curtains were sheer enough that I would have been able to, like, see through and see more than just shadow. But this thing looked like something that Steven Spielberg would have come up. I was like, this is so cliche. It's so on the nose. Like, it's exactly what you think of, and it's exactly how it looks in the movie. And. And that height from the window to the ground into where the head of this thing is would measure out at about four, four and a half feet. So it's consistent with stories about how tall these things are.
- [106:35]
B
Yeah.
- [106:36]
A
But, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I can't say that was an alien gray. I didn't have any other phenomenon happening happen that night that I know of.
- [106:45]
B
Right.
- [106:46]
A
I didn't have any weird dreams that night. My dog seemed okay. So I was like, well, if I was being. Let's say I was taken and being dropped off, why are my dogs only barking now? You know what I mean? Like, so, like, I was almost like, I don't think it was here for me. I almost had this weird instinct that it was like, pat, this is like something that was, like, naturally occurring out here in the Hollywood Hills, you know, or dipping in from another place and was passing through and heard my bulldog snoring, which he would do every night, and was like, what the hell is that? And was looking in, you know. And then Alby kind of woke up to be like, I feel like something's watching me. Saw this thing and then started barking. And then I come out and I scare it off. You know, this. Whatever this was, it did not want to be seen. It didn't mind to be. It didn't mind being seen or barked at. But as soon as it knew there was a human there, it did not.
- [107:42]
B
It took off.
- [107:43]
A
Right. I know how crazy all of this sounds, too. I will say the weird. If we want to throw a little high strangeness on top of it, I.
- [107:52]
B
Mean, as if that wasn't high strange enough.
- [107:55]
A
I had only. I think I'd have to go back and check the dates, but within two weeks, had been on a road trip with my buddy Dave. I think it may have been the same road trip where we went through Tucson, where we had gone to Roswell, New Mexico. And, you know, we did the whole. We did the whole alien museum there and all that stuff. And. And so I just found it strange that this happened just after I'd been to Roswell, New Mexico, and I think around the anniversary of the crash itself, because this was late June. This is like June 29th. I think that's one of the. Like when the phenomenon started to kick off. So there's. There's a weird correlation there.
- [108:42]
B
Yeah.
- [108:44]
A
And I've never had another experience since then. I was always terrified of alien grays ever since I saw the COVID on the communion. The other also the communion. If you were to look at the. The COVID art of communion, that's also the silhouette that I saw in the window. But now, now whenever I see alien gray aliens depicted in Mina, I go, that's wrong. You know, I'm like, that's too much detail. There's not a ridge on the brow. It was super flat faced. It was. It had. It had the same features as a golf club. Like, profile of a golf club. Like, it was like it wedged. It looked like ET but with a shorter head, you know?
- [109:24]
B
Right. Like, like a driver. Like a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great. That's a great.
- [109:28]
A
Exactly. Like if, if, if, if, if, if a driver could, like, undulate. And the way that when it turned, it, like, rippled up the neck. Like it started to turn at the base of the long neck before the head caught up to it. It. You know, and so there's like little minute detail that I'm like, oh, that's. So if I see, I'm like, no, that head's too big or no, that neck's too thick. They're not that muscular. I don't know. It was. I can't explain it. I was always terrified of these things. So then I went, oh, no. You know, maybe. Maybe I have been visited by.
- [110:05]
B
Yeah, you start to reevaluate everything.
- [110:07]
A
But my gut, for some reason my gut told me that, like, it almost felt like I was seeing, because it did. Again, it didn't. There was no bright lights. There was no this or that. I almost felt like I had seen a leprechaun or something. You know what I mean? Elemental and more. More nature based. Like, oh, this thing was like part of the wildlife. It just. We just don't get to see it all the time. You know, it would almost been like had I seen, you know, the. Just the other night that same. Well, I saw opossum sitting out there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe I saw something that coexists or sometimes passes through this dimension that know about us but stay hidden. And I happen to catch a glimpse of it because my dog woke up. And had my dog not woken up, it would have walked right past my building, poked its head in the window, and I never would have known.
- [110:59]
B
Wow. Wow. I didn't think you could top the first story and you actually did. And now I know I'm not going to sleep because I have heard so many firsthand accounts, like, at this point, but, like, the both of these are truly some of the most dramatic encounters I've ever heard in my entire life.
- [111:15]
A
Let me ask both of Windows too, which is weird too.
- [111:18]
B
They didn't think about that. And that is, you know, I mean, like, a window is a portal, is a doorway.
- [111:25]
A
Yeah. You know, I mean, one where I was on the inside and they were on the outside and another word, they were in and I was out.
- [111:30]
B
I hate to keep on throwing the fat. People are probably so sick of me saying about windows are liminal. Sorry. They just are, you know, like, that is absolutely. Dude, first off, thank you so much for sharing that story and the other one. But let me ask you this. Are you like, with. You know, some years pass and, you know, you've probably thought about this a lot and obviously you're into this stuff, but are you happy you had these experiences or that you kind of like. Because I've talked to. It really is a 50, 50 when I talk to people a lot of people I've talked about, like, like, well, is this something you were like, happy about seeing? Did it like, you know, improve your life? They're like, absolutely.
- [112:04]
A
No, definitely, definitely didn't improve my life. And especially with Lois, I, I definitely, like, I had nightmares after that.
- [112:14]
B
Yeah.
- [112:14]
A
Like really bad nightmares and night terrors with, with whatever this was. Maybe I was older, I'd had years of therapy under my belt. I coped with it better, you know, it freaked the fuck out. It freaked me the fuck out.
- [112:31]
B
Yeah.
- [112:32]
A
And the other thing that was really interesting is the first person I called was my brother in law, Chris from Lowe's Pool Records. He's very skeptical, but he was. I also knew he would be awake because he would always get up early for work. And I called him and when I was, I was like, I have something to tell you. I don't think you're gonna believe me, but this just happened and I need to tell somebody immediately. And he was really lovely about it too. Like, he didn't, you know, he didn't go, oh, that didn't happen, or blah, blah, blah. Like he received, he was really, he was like the perfect person to call. But I noticed when I started to tell him, and I'd heard this described in some cases where, like, I almost couldn't get the words out of my mouth, you know what I mean? It was almost like, like I was choking on the description as I was trying, I was like, you know, I was like, it was almost, you know what I mean? And I don't know if that's because there's something about the phenomenon that like, doesn't want you to share its existence or more likely, like it's such a, like paradigm shattering thing. Like, it's really literally hard to find the words to tell something now.
- [113:42]
B
It's much easier, but ontologically discombobulating.
- [113:45]
A
Yes, yes. But it was just, it, that one, that one just got me real interested again. And that was, I think, in many ways the beginning of thinking about doing a podcast that was going to be in, in the paranormal space, you know, resting. And it was, it was, I, I, it was a year later. We didn't start the podcast until about a year later, but I had been thinking about that, thinking about that. And then when I was like, I know I want to do a podcast and I was thinking about what I wanted to do, I was like, well, wait, make it. And I knew, didn't want to be, like I said about the business, I was like, let's do it about the Paranormal. You just had that thing happen to you.
- [114:26]
B
Yep.
- [114:27]
A
Maybe it's time to like devote some space in your life for, for this.
- [114:32]
B
That's, I mean that's an impact. I mean because I mean look, look at where it led you. I mean like six years later you're going on seven season, your seventh season or seventh year of doing your show. And I mean, wow, there's a lot to unpack.
- [114:44]
A
My brother in law had a really wild theory that I, I, I'd put out there just because I, I feel like this is a really safe space and I actually really dug for somebody who like doesn't believe in any of this stuff and is, is not, doesn't proclaim himself to be agnostic but, but atheist. You know, he thinks this is what you see is what you get and there's nothing after this. I had just almost a year to the day, it was a little couple weeks prior to the one year anniversary. Had lost an uncle who was a dear, dear family member and he was into like Bigfoot and aliens and stuff. And, and he and his wife, my aunt, my mom's sister had built a barn that they put a bar in and the bathroom of that bar bar and was like all alien themed and had like Roswell posters in there and, and he knew and I'd had like a very weird dream after he passed that I kind of felt like it was absolutely a visitation dream. But when I told my brother in law about it, he goes, he goes well you know me, I'm skeptical. He goes, but he goes, you know, I have to think, let's say if there is something on the other side and Uncle Jerry's over there, if he wanted to let you know that he was still around and wanted to like see send you a message in a way that only you would get and receive. Maybe it was him showing up in a form that you know. And he also loved my dog too. He had a connection with, with Alby and he, they were very close and he's like, so maybe it was him showing up in a form that was like coded for the two of you and sort of a wink to the fact you were Justin Roswell. Right. And they had the bathroom in their barn that was all Roswell and alien themes. Like so there was like a lot of dots that you could connect there. And I go well you know, that could have just come as something that wouldn't fucking scare me. He goes yeah, but also you know, he, he liked playing little tricks and stuff so maybe he thought that was funny. And you would know. And what's really wild about that was even before he had said that, I had a passing thought of like, I wonder if this was Uncle Jerry doing something, you know, interesting. So. So this ties all back to how have I. How have my thoughts changed about all this stuff? You know, and again, I would have said nuts and bolts, aliens for sure. But as. As I got into this and started and have done more research, I realized there's many. So, so much more of a connection between the spiritual realm and the alien stuff than we ever thought.
- [117:28]
B
Yep.
- [117:29]
A
So I still don't know. I remain agnostic. I don't know what I saw. I cannot tell you what it was. I am open to, you know, me seeing something that was not what I thought it was. But also, I can't. I can't. The closest thing I can tell, I can point to that, say that that's what I saw was like the silhouette of a classic alien gray, you know.
- [117:53]
B
Wow. Well, first off, going back to our Buck Valley thing or Buck Creek Valley. Now, I. Now that I know you're a lightning rod for this stuff, we are absolutely doing this. I mean, I'll finance it myself, man. I'll fly you out first class.
- [118:09]
A
I need you, dude, I'm still down. You don't. Don't spend any extra money. I'll come in.
- [118:14]
B
Oh, man. I mean, wow. I could really just like, talk about these matters for hours. Well, this is. It's always a good sign of a good podcast when I get to one question. I literally wrote out 25 questions for you that I think are pretty fun. So first off, I'm. Listen, I'm going to beg you to be back on.
- [118:35]
A
See, let me. Let me tell you a little secret about podcasting. At a certain point in the not too distant future, you're gonna be like, oh, shit, I need a guest.
- [118:45]
B
Yeah.
- [118:45]
A
Who can I call last minute? Who's gonna come hang out with me? Save those questions. We'll also probably not get to them then either.
- [118:55]
B
No, we. We won't. We won't. But that dude, like, for. I mean, you know, it's. I. I do love it because, like, we, you know, we've worked, we're new buddies, and so it's been. This has been such a fun, you know, I hope everyone, you know, thanks for bearing with us talking about, like, such a inside thing, like Lawrence, Kansas, and all the waterfall aspects of it.
- [119:13]
A
But you gotta go.
- [119:15]
B
You gotta go. First off, it is. Everyone should go. It is hottest and there's a lot of, like, weird stuff around there. But, my man, I cannot tell you what a treat this was. And I'm gonna mention it when I do my little recording prior to this episode, but this is the holiday edition.
- [119:31]
A
Oh, happy holidays, y'. All.
- [119:33]
B
Yeah. So before we leave, I do want to, you know, ask you if you'll join me in wishing everyone a happy, happy holiday. But, my man, I cannot thank you enough. I'm really thrilled I've gotten to know you because I have a feeling you and I are going to get into some adventures down.
- [119:46]
A
Oh, 100 there's.
- [119:48]
B
And it's like, hot. Look, if Hollywood's listening out there, I can really see us playing buddies on some kind of sitcom or, you know, so casting agents out there who are listening to this, we're. We will do a two for one package.
- [120:04]
A
You know, like, we could be like fun little bearded bros, you know?
- [120:08]
B
Yeah.
- [120:09]
A
Midwestern brothers.
- [120:11]
B
Absolutely.
- [120:12]
A
I can't remember if I said this when you were on the show, but I, you know, I do love your show and I thank you and I'm really glad you're jumping into the conversation here because there's really such a delightful. For us, I'd say in the past year, especially, like, talk about a synchronicity. You had Darcy on the show, like, the day before we were going down to the Kellogg house to do a tour with her, and we didn't know Darcy at all before that night. And like, that show was such a great primer because it provided all everything I needed to know about Darcy going into it. So, like, it literally acted as like an icebreaker.
- [120:53]
B
Oh, good.
- [120:53]
A
And I was like, oh, I love. Well, now I love Darcy. And Darcy's cool. And I'm her friend because I listen to one podcast with her and yeah, talking. So there's just been, like a really wonderful thing for us, just community wise. I would say this year more than any, any other on the podcast, we're like, we're also really starting to find our people in this field. And you know, Tenny and Jess and Darcy, I love them all. And the new Kirks and Derek Hayes and his wife Sarah over at Monsters Among Us. Like, like, it's just really lovely to, like, we're finding our people. And the more that we find our people, the more I'm excited to absolutely go do things like the Bluff Creek, you know, let's go check it out, you know.
- [121:42]
B
Yeah.
- [121:43]
A
Because. Because I, you know, it's just nice to know there are cool, open minded, fun people in this realm because, you know, there's some detours you can take off this road of the unexplained. They get into some very dark places very quickly.
- [121:55]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, there is a whole fascist side to the paranormal that is so toxic that I, you know.
- [122:02]
A
Yeah.
- [122:02]
B
But, like, I couldn't agree more. It's like this last or not even year for me, I guess I'm like, I'm still a baby in this stuff, but I have. People have jumped in and been so, like you mentioned Jess and John. They have been so supportive and helpful to me, like, asking, you know, being first off, just being on the show and helping to promote and just being people I can go to with questions, you know, as I'm starting to do this, but, like, your show was kind of the show. I was like, oh, man, their show's so good. Like, if I could be half of what they are, then it's not a waste of time, you know?
- [122:31]
A
But like, oh, thanks, dude.
- [122:33]
B
I, I, I really do treasure getting to know you and just, hey, you know, it's fun to be on this ride with other people who are awesome.
- [122:39]
A
So we forgot. I forgot to do this on BCC special shout out to EJ Scott, who introduced us.
- [122:44]
B
Hell yes.
- [122:44]
A
I love EJ man Instagram. Thank you.
- [122:49]
B
Yes, thank you, EJ Scott. And also, I will also, on my side thank Eric Edelstein and Ryan Gall, who hit me to your show. Like, dude, you got to be on these guys show you love them.
- [122:58]
A
Eric's the best. Also, I love Ryan and was so excited. He. He messaged me. I mean, I knew him through doing Cooking with Gas, right? Recurring guest host of that or guest player on that over at Groundlings. But, like, I had no clue he had been listening to the show. And then he just messaged me like, I love the show, man. I was like, get well, come be on it. I didn't know you were into this, Ryan.
- [123:20]
B
Ryan's. It's what? It's funny because, like, I have very few friends. Like, Ryan and I have been performed improv together for a long time. But, like, he was kind of my buddy when, you know, we drink beers after our show, we go up in the corner and talk about Bigfoot, you know, where no one else could hear us. You know, we were like, that's what.
- [123:36]
A
That'S how Bryce and I bonded on the set of Major Crimes.
- [123:40]
B
We just.
- [123:41]
A
The crafts table. And he had just been in Willow Creek and I just seen it. I was like, dude, I love it. He's like, are you into Bigfoot? I'M like yes.
- [123:48]
B
Hell yes.
- [123:48]
A
There you go.
- [123:49]
B
Yes. Oh, that's so great, Michael. Well, thank you so much for offering to come back on the show. I am going to take you up on that because I would like anytime some of these questions. But before we go, I would like to ask you to help me join in and wish all the high strangers out there and the Bigfoot Collectors Club folks who were so wonderful a happy holiday. So 1, 2, 3, happy holiday. We love you guys. I hope everybody everyone has great drink, great family, great friends and such a wonderful, safe holiday. Stay weird, have curl up to a nice great book and you know, singapa pump or whatever.
- [124:30]
A
Tell ghost stories at Christmas, Christmas Eve. Get some do do the ghost story tradition. What a cool English tradition that we need to like start here in America, like tell some ghost stories.
- [124:40]
B
Absolutely. It starts this year, this season, right now.
- [124:43]
A
Can I close out with one quick thing about Christmas Eve high strangeness? Real quick, real quick. I saw Santa Claus. No, just kidding. When I was little, I always heard a rumor that at midnight on Christmas Eve, animals could talk for one minute. And my sister and I used to like try to get our pets to talk. I don't know why that started but guys, try to have a conversation midnight and Christmas Eve with your.
- [125:07]
B
I am absolutely doing that. Set your alarm at 11:59 everyone. That is such a wonderful time tidbit. Great piece of advice from my Wonderful guest, Michael McMillan. Everyone, thank you so much for listening this year in 2023. Have a wonderful holiday. And Michael, you have a happy holiday, my friend.
- [125:24]
A
Thanks, you too, Stevie.
- [125:25]
B
All right, bye everyone. Peace.
- [125:28]
A
Bye. Bigfoot Collectors Club is executive produced by Riley Bray and Michael McMillan and engineered and edited by Riley Bray. Our theme song is Come Alone by Sun Eaters courtesy of Lotus pool Records for ad free listening and bonus episodes every month. Join BCC Clubhouse on BCC Supercast.com Want to see us watch video episodes and exclusive content on YouTube.com advickfootcollectorsquote.