"Rock & Roll Ghost Pics" w/ Jessie Payo of POM POMS (Main Feed)

Summary

Bigfoot Collectors Club – “Rock & Roll Ghost Pics” w/ Jessie Payo of POM POMS

Podcast: Bigfoot Collectors Club
Host: Wood Elf Media
Episode: “Rock & Roll Ghost Pics” w/ Jessie Payo of POM POMS (Main Feed)
Date: March 19, 2025

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, hosts Michael McMillan and Riley Bray are joined by musician and songwriter Jessie Payo of POM POMS for a lively and personal discussion on the intersection of paranormal phenomena and rock and roll. The conversation explores Jessie’s history of ghost encounters, family paranormal stories, and the enduring relationship between music and the supernatural, culminating in a segment dedicated to alleged “rock and roll ghost photos.” The show maintains its trademark mix of sincere curiosity and playful banter, peppered with personal anecdotes, listener interaction, and musical interludes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jessie Payo’s Introduction & Paranormal “Pedigree”

[02:16-05:13]

• Jessie is introduced as a California-native musician, songwriter, and Pom Poms frontwoman.
• Lives in Joshua Tree, a locale with heavy UFO and cryptid lore.
  • Jessie shares: “I live in Joshua Tree.” — Jessie [02:56]
• Discussion of Joshua Tree’s local cryptid: the Yucca Man.
  • Jessie learned about it via the Desert Oracle radio show and zine. [03:15-03:34]

2. Jessie & Riley’s Friendship and Creative Collaboration

[05:08-09:04]

• They recall first meeting at a Goop event (yes, Gwyneth Paltrow’s): “They put us in the bushes. They didn’t want us to be seen.” — Jessie [05:41]
• Their creative partnership solidified through pandemic-era music video collaborations for Pom Poms.
  • Notably, Jessie’s “Stoned and Lonely” music video, full of whimsical props and odd costumes.
• Jessie’s penchant for collecting odd objects at home—referred to as “the cast” in her garage.

3. Jessie’s Early Ghosts: “I Could See Dead People”

[09:36-14:01]

• As a child, Jessie experienced vivid ghost sightings in old Victorian houses her parents house-sat.
  • “I remember being in this older house and seeing all these people roaming around in older costumes… my mom: ‘No one’s here, honey.’” — Jessie [10:32]
• Another memory in a friend’s house: seeing a shushing ghost woman over her crib.
• Paranormal sensitivity runs in her family; her dad also experienced voices and warnings from a resident ghost.
  • “He was almost done with the job, and he hears the woman say: ‘You need to leave.’” — Jessie [11:36]
• As a teen, Jessie chose to “shut down” her sensitivity for self-preservation.

4. Family Poltergeist Lore: Leadville, Colorado

[15:44-16:43]

• Jessie’s mother grew up in Leadville, a mining town with a “Poltergeist street”—homes with specific ghost quirks.
  • “One house hated when people smoked. In the morning, the ashtrays were full of water.” — Jessie [16:37]
• Notable story: Her mom, while housesitting, witnesses locked-up cats, trashed rooms, and a face in the fireplace. Grandma nonchalantly says: “Oh, that’s just Dr. Rose.” [18:04–18:27]
  • “Every time I pass by that house, I try to stand in front of the window looking for Dr. Rose.” — Jessie [18:46]

5. A Terrifying Experience: “The Gates of Hell in My Ears”

[19:27–22:54]

• In high school, Jessie had a frightening sleep paralysis episode in her Burbank home.
  • Sensations of being suffocated, hearing distorted demonic voices: “As if the gates of hell had opened up.” — Jessie [21:19]
  • At the same time, her father in the guest house felt “a really dark energy that was forcing him out.” — Jessie [22:09]
• The family’s approach? “We just learned to live with it… We’re just haunted.” — Jessie [22:34]

6. Crossover Paranormal: UFO Encounters Tie-In

[23:14–25:19]

• While Jessie hasn’t seen UFOs in Joshua Tree, she did witness strange lights in the sky as a youth at her haunted house: “A big bright light piercing through the sky… it spread out into a bunch of lights and then sucked right back up.” — Jessie [24:13]
• Riley shares a strikingly similar childhood sighting.

7. On Being Paranormally Sensitive, But Also Scared

[28:59–30:45]

• Jessie is wary of opening herself up to the supernatural. “I am such a scaredy pants. Like, I’d be terrified.” — Jessie [29:13]
• Fear root: “Just seeing the thing itself. It’s like seeing a snake in the wild…”
• The hosts liken her to a ghost-hunting Indiana Jones, but scared of what she finds.

8. Physical Ghost Activity and Messages

[39:11–41:23]

• Jessie’s experiences include objects moving (crashing jar at the Whaley House), doors opening, and sleep paralysis.
• Most intriguing: a mysterious word, “visceral,” appearing on a steamy bathroom mirror. “That was the one time something was left in the house.” — Jessie [41:23]
• A hole at the bottom of the stairs appears one day, “as if someone had tumbled down.”

9. Loss and Change: The Passing of Jessie’s Father

[42:10–43:08]

• After Jessie’s father passed away, the haunted house’s energy changed: “The light in the house was a different color… it felt light… The energy that was somewhat heavy in that house was gone.” — Jessie [42:10]
• Jessie and her mom interpret this as her father “cleansing” the spirit presence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On growing up haunted:
  “We just learned to live with… We’re just haunted.” — Jessie Payo [22:34]

• On ghosts as parallel realities:
  “I feel like… it’s kind of like a glimpse into a parallel universe that we happen to happen upon, and we’re just existing at the same time on different planes.” — Jessie Payo [38:07]

• On the viscerally haunted bathroom:
  “The steam was still going and it had said ‘visceral’. I don’t know how to spell this.” — Jessie Payo [41:15]

• On avoiding her gift:
  “I am such a scaredy pants. Like, I’d be terrified.” — Jessie Payo [29:13]

• Playful banter on ghost hunting:
  Michael: “Jesse, that’s you — but with ghosts, literally, that’s who you are.”
  Jessie: “Oh my god. On Discovery Channel, there’s this ghost hunter who’s also very scared…” [30:11–30:22]

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Important Timestamps for Segments

• Jessie’s Joshua Tree/Yucca Man Background: [02:54–03:34]
• Jessie & Riley/POM POMS Collaboration: [05:13–09:04]
• First Major Ghost Stories: [09:36–14:01]
• Family’s Leadville Poltergeists: [15:44–19:01]
• Scariest Moment (Sleep Paralysis): [19:27–22:54]
• Ghost/UFO Crossover: [23:14–25:19]
• Physical Activity/“Visceral” Message: [39:11–41:23]
• After Her Father’s Death: [42:10–43:08]

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High Strangeness Feature: “Rock & Roll Ghost Pics”

[47:03–73:56]

Segment Overview

Michael leads the group through a review of alleged rock star ghost photos, with live, whimsical scoring by Jessie and Riley using guitar and a tiny pink piano for an old-school “spooky” mood.

Cases Covered

1. Lynyrd Skynyrd Gravesite Photo [49:38–55:01]

   • Taken at Jack’s Memory Gardens, Jacksonville, Florida; fans claim faces of the deceased bandmembers emerge in the branches near the “Free Bird” tree.
   • Michael reads testimony from fans who see Ronnie, Cassie, and others.
   • Consensus: The faces emerge the longer you look. Likely pareidolia, but “can’t we just have magic?” — Jessie [55:06]

2. Jim Morrison’s Grave (Père Lachaise, Paris) [56:07–61:31]

   • Controversial spectral arms-out ghost figure in alleged Tom Petty photo.
   • Hosts agree the origin is dubious and photo most likely a hoax or double exposure, but fun to imagine: “This ghost in this picture is having a really good time.” — Jessie [61:58]

3. John Lennon Ghost Sightings [63:00–69:39]

   • Photographs from in front of the Dakota, in Central Park, and in Hamburg, Germany.
   • The Dakota photo (Ohio tourist): “That is giving me chills.” — Jessie [65:13]
   • Central Park/bench image: Most convincing to Jessie — “It looks like him.” [67:33]
   • Hamburg: More like Yoko Ono than John.

Music-Magic Connection

• The hosts reflect on music and high strangeness:
  “When you’re at that level… there’s like a psychic field… you become sort of, you’re elevated in a weird way.” — Michael [73:15]
• Jessie calls performing “vibrational… tapping into different frequencies.” [73:24]

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Clubhouse Banter & Games

• Rapid-Fire “Believe It / Don’t Believe It” Game [35:47–38:07]
  • Jessie’s answers: “Believe it” to most cryptids/phenomena, “don’t know” to some, “life after death — believe it.”
• Listener Review “Scout of the Week” [32:04–35:02]
  • Example: “Thanks guys for filling my ear holes with delightful banter and tales that bring back the sense of awe and curiosity I felt as a kid.” — Kristen32 [34:50]

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Jessie’s Closing Thoughts & Plugs

[73:56–74:24]

• Find Jessie on Instagram: @JessiePayo or @POMPSmusic
• All music under “Jessie Payo” or “POM POMS” on streaming platforms.
• Riley and Michael plug the BCC Patreon for bonus episodes.

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Notable Musical Moment

• Live “High Strangeness” segment scored with Jessie’s J200 (huge acoustic guitar) and Riley’s tiny pink piano.
  • “For those listening, it looks like I’m playing a standup bass as a guitar.” — Jessie [46:01]

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Noteworthy Quotes With Attribution

• “We just learned to live with… we’re just haunted.”— Jessie Payo [22:34]
• “As if the gates of hell had opened up… the sounds were like [distorted, backward voices].” — Jessie Payo [21:19]
• “It’s kind of like a glimpse into a parallel universe.” — Jessie Payo [38:07]
• “Can’t we just have magic?” — Jessie Payo [55:06]
• “There’s like a psychic field… you’re penetrating people’s minds.” — Michael McMillan [73:11]

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Episode Tone

Playful, candid, wonder-filled, sometimes creepy, and always musical. The hosts blend lighthearted razzing with openness to mysterious experiences—trademark “we’re just having a laugh over here” energy.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode offers a spirited yet sincere window into personal hauntings, family legends, and why musicians might leave echoes on both the stage and the astral plane. Jessie Payo’s stories and vulnerability humanize the topic, while Riley and Michael provide context and comic relief. "Rock & Roll Ghost Pics" invites you to ponder old ghosts, both literal and metaphorical, and perhaps even spot one yourself—if you dare to look.

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For more eerie photos and discussion, visit the Bigfoot Collectors Club Instagram and YouTube.

Transcript

[Riley Bray]

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[Michael McMillan]

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[Riley Bray]

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[Jesse Payo]

Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Michael McMillan]

When did I get here?

[Jesse Payo]

What do you mean?

[Michael McMillan]

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.

[Jesse Payo]

It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.

[Michael McMillan]

It is the future. It's.

[Jesse Payo]

It's the present. And just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.

[Michael McMillan]

It's all good. Happens all the time.

[Jesse Payo]

Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pickup times may vary and fees may apply.

[Riley Bray]

It's Bigfoot Collectors Club with Michael and Riley. I know a story of high strangeness or two. Let's do this.

[Michael McMillan]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Bigfoot Collectors Club, the show where we talk to amazing guests about their personal paranormal history and share stories of high strangeness. I'm your host, Michael McMillan, and with me always is the Trans Medium maestro.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa. All right. Riley Bray. Hi.

[Michael McMillan]

That was submitted by our friend Zero over at bcc. The other side.

[Riley Bray]

Nice one, Zero. Appreciate it.

[Michael McMillan]

We need some more nicknames for Riley, so send those over. Send them. Send them to us.

[Riley Bray]

I have been enjoying them. They're quite fun.

[Michael McMillan]

I know I'm running out. I mean, I'm getting them, but I'm. I'm going to run out fast, so keep them coming, please. Let's get right into it because I know that people have already spotted her if you're watching this on YouTube, as well as the the Beast of Brace Studio. Who's with us this week? Nova.

[Riley Bray]

The real star.

[Michael McMillan]

The real star of Bigfoot Collectors Club. Hi, sweet boy. Look at him.

[Riley Bray]

As soon as the lights come on, he's like, where's my angle?

[Michael McMillan]

I think he's looking directly in the camera.

[Riley Bray]

Where's my eyeline, guys?

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, no. Our guest this week is a California native singer, songwriter who has a love for making cinematic music and is the co creator, writer for and member of the Los Angeles band Pont Pom Poms. You may have heard her music in episodes of shows like Lucifer, Criminal Minds, Chicago Fire, just to name a few. Club scouts of all timelines, please welcome to the clubhouse, Jesse Payo.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, I'm here.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, Jesse, I'm finally here. You're here with us. How are you?

[Jesse Payo]

I'm fantastic.

[Michael McMillan]

What's going on?

[Jesse Payo]

Drove in from the desert.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

I live in Joshua Tree.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay. That's a big UFO hotspot out there.

[Jesse Payo]

That is a big, big. There's a lot going on out there.

[Michael McMillan]

Really?

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Have you seen anything recently?

[Jesse Payo]

I haven't seen anything, but I recently found out that we do have our own sort of bigfoot.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, the Yucca Man.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. I didn't know that.

[Michael McMillan]

How did you come to learn of the Yucca Man?

[Jesse Payo]

I was listening to the Desert Oracle.

[Michael McMillan]

Yes.

[Jesse Payo]

Which is a great radio show.

[Michael McMillan]

Great radio show. Great zine.

[Jesse Payo]

Great zine. I found the zine years ago and then started listening to the show and the Yucca man popped up and I was like, I have not heard of this.

[Michael McMillan]

That is how I learned about the Yucca man was from the desert. Oracle magazine.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Years ago. Yeah. What's going on here?

[Jesse Payo]

I had no idea.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. A friend of friend of friend of the show passed it over to me and I got a hold of it. So.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

You're wearing your one of my alien shirts.

[Jesse Payo]

No, but nobody freaking cares.

[Michael McMillan]

I love it.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, I like that vibe.

[Jesse Payo]

Found in the desert. We love our alien flair.

[Michael McMillan]

You got your alien jerky? Does alien. Is alien jerky as far west as. As of Joshua Tree?

[Jesse Payo]

I think that's past the Mojave Preserve.

[Michael McMillan]

That's all. That's all in the.

[Jesse Payo]

On the way to Vegas.

[Riley Bray]

That's a Vegas stop.

[Jesse Payo]

I stop by all the time. I've talked to Riley about my love for tourist traps, and I always have to stop by that alien emporium.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Never tried the jerky.

[Jesse Payo]

I haven't either.

[Riley Bray]

I mean, I obviously haven't.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. The shirt, though, reminded me that we do actually have new merch.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

For sale up on our t public shop. The new logos for not only BCC, but also BCC the Other side by Derek Cole are over there right now. I'll put a link in the show notes of this episode so you can find it.

[Riley Bray]

Thank you guys for picking them up. My phone keeps pinging. That we sold a shirt.

[Michael McMillan]

Makes me happy. It's my favorite sound every time the merch bell rings and alien gets its jerky. Jerky. Exactly. All right, we got to get into your personal paranormal history. What do you think about the paranormal? Have you ever had any encounters? But before we even do that.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

We need to go back to your personal Riley history.

[Jesse Payo]

Riley history.

[Michael McMillan]

Because Riley Bray plays with Pom Poms. Right?

[Riley Bray]

Very much so.

[Jesse Payo]

Riley is the drummer of Pom Poms. But to take it back. Gosh, it's so funny. We did one corporate gig at Gwyneth Paltrow's.

[Riley Bray]

I think we could say it.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. For Goof, I was playing just folk music, and Riley was running sound, and. But they put us in the bushes. They didn't want us to be seen.

[Riley Bray]

Just heard, like, before. Before and after playing, we had to, like, hide down a stairwell. Wait, I'm not saying that Gwyneth did this. We love you, Gwyneth.

[Michael McMillan]

It's a corporate game.

[Jesse Payo]

We love Goop.

[Riley Bray]

It was a thing for Goop. And, like, the organizers were very adamant that we were not to scene.

[Michael McMillan]

So you weren't, like, performing. You were performing just in bushes.

[Jesse Payo]

In the bushes?

[Riley Bray]

Well, no, the performance. We were allowed out of the bushes.

[Michael McMillan]

I thought they were saying they would just be allowed to hear you, but you had, like.

[Riley Bray]

You guys could just split on, like, an iPad.

[Jesse Payo]

No, it's kind of like the opposite of, like, Homer Simpson, like, coming out of the bushes. It was like, we came out, and then, like.

[Michael McMillan]

And then everyone's like, people in the bushes the whole time.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, they didn't notice.

[Jesse Payo]

And meanwhile, we're, like, looking up at the balcony of the house, and Gwyneth Paltrow comes out alone in the middle of it and just oversees her empire. And. Well, we met on that, but we didn't become familiar till later.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

I had. A friend of mine had told me about the podcast, had told me about bcc, and she goes, it's also one of the members of the band Spindrift, who you love. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I got to listen to this podcast. And this was during 2020. So this is when you guys were doing Roswell series.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, sure.

[Jesse Payo]

And we had been messaging because I'd been putting on some silly videos on.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You were doing all those videos then. Yeah, she was doing, like, these sort of daily videos of, like, you have.

[Jesse Payo]

Like, Dance, Ember Dance, and, like, weird. Like, I did this weird show called this Thing I have in My House.

[Riley Bray]

That was that. Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Where it was the Pandemic. So I'd find odd objects in my house and put it on, like, a retro outfit and just be like, I have this flamingo snow globe. And it just makes me think, enjoy the time, because we have plenty of time. And that would just be it.

[Michael McMillan]

There was that moment in the pandemic where we all reverted to, like, when we were kids, and we would Record ourselves on our, like, boombox and be like, I made a radio show.

[Riley Bray]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

And some of us were just doing that, but making episodes about Roswell. And some of us were doing that with objects in our house and putting it on social media.

[Jesse Payo]

I was the most free at that time, 100%. But I think I had tagged a Spindrift song and someone. I think someone had sent it to you.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And then we became friends, like, realizing we had a lot in common. And then after this relationship developed, I asked Riley to, like, direct my music video for Pom Poms.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And then that was our first project.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. It was a song called Stoned and Lonely, which I think was, you know, pandemic related.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. Stoned and lonely. Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

And we shot the whole thing in one day. We, like. We kind of like, a little bit prepped it, and she was just like, I'm going to pack my car full of, like, weird shit. And then we just, like, ran around downtown filming all these little vignettes.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

We use the Spindrift Warehouse as, like, our one actual location.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. We pumped it full of fog, so it looks like it had been smoking a ton of weed.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And snacks everywhere. And then I'm just riding around downtown with a gorilla mask on a bike.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

But I was like, I have a chicken suit. I could put that out and I could dance chicken.

[Michael McMillan]

Sound like you have a lot of props at home.

[Jesse Payo]

I have a whole garage awes full of props. I call it the cast.

[Michael McMillan]

So when did you realize that Riley was Riley from Bigfoot Collectors Club? I missed somewhere in that place.

[Jesse Payo]

A friend of mine had listened to the podcast and the connection was made that Riley was in Spindrift. And so she sent me the podcast and she's like, you also like a lot of high strangeness and ghosts and aliens. And so she's like, this is the podcast for you.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh. And now here you are.

[Jesse Payo]

And now I'm here.

[Riley Bray]

I know it's full circle.

[Michael McMillan]

So you tipped us off there. You're into ghosts, you're into UFOs. How long have you been into this stuff?

[Jesse Payo]

Well, what's wild is I feel like I was like a Haley Jo Osment. Like, I could see dead people.

[Michael McMillan]

Really?

[Riley Bray]

Wait, what? How have we never talked about this?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know. We've never talked about this.

[Michael McMillan]

Everybody else, cancel your plans. The rest of the show is just going to be about this.

[Jesse Payo]

My parents said I could see dead people. Like, there's a one specific story, which I was so young, but I still have memory of it. My parents would do a lot of house sitting in those older Victorian houses in Hollywood, like Echo park area. And there was one specific instance where we were house sitting. It was just me and my mom and my dad and my brother. And I was probably. I was very small. And I remember being in this older house and seeing all of these people roaming around the house in older costumes and like wondering who they were. What was this? Was it a party? And I remember asking my mom, why are all these people here? And she's like, no one. No one's here, honey.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Michael McMillan]

How old were you?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't. I was probably about 5 or so. Probably a little young. Yeah, around there. But I would see. I would see. I would see figures or ghosts. And there was another time where my dad was repainting my friend's house, but we would stay the night. It was one of those older houses in Altadena that were like from the 20s. And I remember there's this old fashioned crib that I like, like to go into and sleep. So we spent the night there and I was like, I want to sleep in the crib. And they're like, have at it. Like, you can do it. And so I remember in the middle of the night waking up and seeing this older woman standing over me, just like going like, shushing me. And I was like, really scared. I wanted to scream, but I just like closed my eyes and just pretended it didn't happen. And when I told my par. And so like, well, yeah, we have a ghost here. There's like some. My dad says sometimes she talks. She talks to me.

[Riley Bray]

So your parents also were like seeing.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have so many ghost stories in the family. But I remember when my dad was painting the house and he was by himself and. And he was almost done with the job, and he hears the woman say, you need to leave. You need to leave. And he was like, okay. So he packed up all of his stuff and he left.

[Michael McMillan]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

So we had our. It runs in the family. And then it got to a certain point when I was in high school where I was like, I don't want this. And I heard that you can close off some sort of opening. And I had made the decision, like, I don't want to see this all the time, so I'm just going to shut it down.

[Riley Bray]

How did you go about that?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know. I think it was just a conscious decision. But I still get like. I get a lot of like, intense feelings in certain spaces. Where I feel like I'm being suffocated if it's a highly haunted place.

[Michael McMillan]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

You sound like you could have, like, a whole other career as a medium probably. Like, do you ever just, like, maybe you're at a party or maybe you're bored and you're just like, I'm gonna flip the ghost switch on for a little while, see what comes through, see.

[Riley Bray]

Who else is hanging out.

[Jesse Payo]

Maybe if it's in, like, an old, old place.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Like, let's see if the ghost switch is on still. I don't know. Sometimes I open it up a tiny bit.

[Michael McMillan]

And you must be on the road a lot as a musician. So I'm sure you go into hotels and you can tell pretty quickly whether it's a good. Good vibe or bad vibe.

[Jesse Payo]

100% there. This. I was in Spokane. Spokane or Spokane? Spokane, Spokane, Washington. And my. My room, like, the minute I walked in, I was like, oh, nope. No, no, no, no, no, no. And I could feel it. And I didn't have any stage. I didn't have anything. So I literally just kept the TV on, put my headphones on, put the eye mask on. I was like, I could feel like something's going to just be. And plus, the ceilings were so high, and it was abnormally hu. Like, there's going to be a figure in the corner hanging out. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want. I don't want that.

[Michael McMillan]

So. Yeah, they make this ceilings tall for the tall man.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, yeah. You want to.

[Michael McMillan]

Watches you at night.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Slender man, he's going to be in there.

[Michael McMillan]

That is. Labor Day savings are happening right now at the Home Depot. So what are you working on? Prep for fall with our wide selection of cordless power tools that make it easy to clear your lawn starting at $79. And once the leaves are clear, keep your yard looking fresh with colorful mums that bloom all season long. Shop Labor Day Savings now through September 3rd only at the Home Depot. See select stores for details.

[Jesse Payo]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebgliss. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBgliss achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks.

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

Weeks.

[Jesse Payo]

And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Michael McMillan]

EBGLIS Librekizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis before starting EP gliss. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief.

[Jesse Payo]

Ask your doctor about Epglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Michael McMillan]

Absolutely wild so what are you said you have a ton of ghost stories in your family. Like, who was this lady watching you in the crib? Like, did you guys have like names? Did you have like backstories for any of these? Well, there's spirits.

[Jesse Payo]

There's one specific one that's a big family story. I'll try to make it as quick as possible.

[Michael McMillan]

That's why we're here.

[Jesse Payo]

That's why get into it.

[Riley Bray]

Get some meat on that bone.

[Jesse Payo]

My my mom was very susceptible to it, but she's from a small mining town called Leadville, Colorado that has a lot of historical ghost stories because it's an old mining town where there was a lot of deaths that happened during the the mining accidents and all that. And specifically on the street that she grew up on, it was kind of like what they call a bootleg hill. Kind of like in poltergeist, like they didn't move the bodies kind of thing. So that whole street had poltergeist. And so she at whole street had poltergeist. Poltergeist. Like one house hated when people smoke cigarettes. So like in the morning all of the ashtrays were full of water. Just get out.

[Riley Bray]

Like whether or not it rained or.

[Jesse Payo]

Whether or not they just didn't like smoking.

[Michael McMillan]

It's not raining in the house.

[Riley Bray]

I was picturing a porch ashtray.

[Michael McMillan]

Maybe this is the 80s people smoking.

[Riley Bray]

You're right. You know what?

[Michael McMillan]

I wasn't thinking about these 90s. I don't know. I don't mean to. I remember when ashtrays were inside.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, they were probably all over the house. But yeah, that there was one story where my mom was house Sitting for this family that had twins. And it was an old, old Victorian style house, multi leveled. And the twins were known to be rambunctious and stuff. So if there were messes, my mom just chalked it up to the twins. So anyway, she was house sitting by herself and it was time to feed the cats and she couldn't find the cats at all. And she was searching throughout the whole house. And finally she goes up to the top floor and the door is locked. She opens it up and the. The cats were locked up in like the top. I think it was the attic or just the top floor. And as she's coming down, I forget the order of events. There's another room that's totally trashed in newspaper. Just covered top to bottom, like out of nowhere. She's like, wait, that wasn't there. The twins couldn't have done it. And then she goes downstairs and she sees a face in the fireplace. And I mean, I was already scared.

[Michael McMillan]

Of the act human twins that are running around this house. And now there's like fire. There's a face in the fireplace.

[Jesse Payo]

In the fireplace. There's probably more. So she runs out, she like, the house is just a couple houses down from her, her mom's house, from my grandma's house. And she goes, there's some crazy stuff happening there. I just saw a face in the fireplace. And my grandma casually just goes, oh, that's just Dr. Rose.

[Michael McMillan]

Dr. Rose, he lives in the chimney. What the.

[Jesse Payo]

The Dr. Rose? Up the chimney goes ye. So every time I pass by that house when I visit my mom, I try to stand in front of the windows looking for Dr. Rose.

[Riley Bray]

Have you ever seen Dr. Rose?

[Michael McMillan]

No. What does Dr. Rose look like? Why is he in the fire?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know why he's in the fireplace. Why his face is in the fireplace.

[Michael McMillan]

This is wild.

[Jesse Payo]

It's like his own TV show.

[Riley Bray]

This is also like now Pom Poms. And everything is making so much more sense. I can't believe I didn't know all this backstory. I knew about your mom and I knew about the town.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Not know about the depth of Poltergeist and Paranormal Activity.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, there's so much. There's so much. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

What is the scariest moment you've had? Maybe as a receiver of this or the something. Okay.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, I have one.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

So we lived in a house in Burbank on Hollywood Way. Cue scary music. And so we had a back house and my dad used that as his like, production studio, his little office. But something Just felt really odd in there. And there had been a couple small, telling signs that there was a spirit in the house and that it wasn't stoked. It was in a good spirit. It didn't feel right. I had had a couple of sightings, like, out of the corner of my eye. But there was this one night where I had gone through a period of time where I liked falling asleep on the couch and I'd, like, light a candle. But that night, I couldn't get to sleep, so I put on a record and.

[Michael McMillan]

And you're sorry, you're about what age now?

[Jesse Payo]

I was probably in high school. I was probably, like, a sophomore in high school. And my dad was prone to fall asleep in the back house. So as I'm falling asleep, I can see behind my closed eyes is, like, the flickering of the candles going faster. And then all of a sudden, the sound of the record just gets. Feels like it's droned out. Like, the sounds, like, warped. And I feel like there's something's muffling my ears.

[Michael McMillan]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

And then I start getting the sleep paralysis thing where I start losing feeling in my legs all the way. Like, starting from my toes all the way up till I feel like I'm being totally pressed down and I can't get up. And then the sounds in my ears start to. It feels like as if I will never forget, as if the gates of hell have opened up. Like, the sounds were like. Like, and, like, backwards and, like, phased out.

[Riley Bray]

And this is like voices.

[Jesse Payo]

Voices are just like. Like, weird demonic sounds. And it felt like it lasted for so long, and I was trying to scream. And then it was, like, just over. And just seconds after that, my dad rushes into the house. And he was like, something crazy was happening back there. And I was like, something crazy just happened to me. And then we just kind of wrote it off.

[Michael McMillan]

And you guys went to Porto's.

[Jesse Payo]

We went to Porto's and got potato balls.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. That's what you do. Burnbank after A gate to Hell's open.

[Jesse Payo]

I don't care how long I have to wait. I'm gonna get those empanadas. I'm scared I'm gonna eat my.

[Riley Bray]

That's gonna take a lot of potato balls to put that one away.

[Jesse Payo]

Give me a box.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. Wait. What? What? Do you know what happened with your dad at the same time?

[Jesse Payo]

He just. He just said he felt a really dark energy that was forcing him out of the guest house.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

How long did you guys stay in that house after all this?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't think we were there much longer.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

And nobody came. Like, at no point did you guys think like, let's get somebody in here to like, like cleanse the space.

[Jesse Payo]

No. I mean, gosh, our family like never really got into like that kind of stuff.

[Michael McMillan]

You guys just learned to live with.

[Jesse Payo]

We just learned to live with. We're just haunted. Like, it's like not going to the doctor. Like we're just like, oh, we're just not going to. We're just going to deal with it. To this evil spirit that's just following us around. No big deal.

[Riley Bray]

Wow.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. That. That was terrifying, truly.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, now I understand why. In high school you're like, I don't want any more of this.

[Jesse Payo]

I don't want it anymore. And then that's how I found out about like sleep paralysis and the paralysis monster and all that stuff. Cuz I was like, that sounds really familiar. But that's. It's still like I can't wrap my head around the. The gates of hell in my ears.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

That sucks.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Nobody wants that. When it comes to like UFOs, cryptids, that kind of stuff. Like if being out in the desert, have you ever experienced like unidentified flying objects or seen strange lights out there?

[Jesse Payo]

I. I have not. I mean, the only time I've actually feel like I've seen a UFO is at that haunted house.

[Michael McMillan]

What happened?

[Jesse Payo]

Well, I remember like, it's not uncommon.

[Michael McMillan]

By the way, to have like two types of paranormal activity, like crossover UFOs and ghost stuff crossing over in the same place. Poltergeist activity. Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, it was, it was the weirdest thing. It was around the same time. It's like time zone. Time era, not the time zone. I remember someone, either my mom or my brother saying, come out to the backyard. Something weird is happening. And I remember going outside and looking up and just seeing like a big bright light. Like it's like piercing through the sky and then it spread out into a bunch of different lights and then sucked right back up.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

And I was like, whoa. I actually just saw my first ufo.

[Riley Bray]

That's really similar to the thing that I saw when I was a kid.

[Jesse Payo]

Really?

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, when I was. I don't know if you ever heard that episode. I told this on the show, but I mean briefly. Like I was a kid, probably somewhere between like 10 and 12 based on what house we were living at the time. But I was like in bed. It was the middle of the night. I woke up like bolt upright and I looked at my. I had one of those, like, red, like, digital clocks, you know, the old school style, and all the numbers were scrambled. And then all of a sudden there was sort of like, like a point or like a ball of light. And then the whole room lit up super bright. And then it just like, like sucked out and was gone.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

And then I was just like in the room, like, what the.

[Jesse Payo]

Right?

[Riley Bray]

And I like, told my parents about it, and they were like, oh, it was probably like a. Like a police car's searchlight. And I was like, didn't live. Like, it was like off the street a bit. And I was like, what are they doing? Like. But yes, it was really similar with that.

[Michael McMillan]

The tiny man.

[Jesse Payo]

He got really nervous, so he just like turned it off really fast. He's like, oopsie.

[Riley Bray]

But yeah, no, very similar. That, like, weird sort of like light fills the room and. Yeah, like, out.

[Jesse Payo]

It was wild.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, that sounds like some Stargate activity. That sounds like, you know, they. There's a whole thing of like, out over, you know, past Santa Monica, over the ocean, that there's like a stargate out there.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh.

[Michael McMillan]

And UFOs come in and out atmosphere through the Stargate, like out over the ocean. And there's one time I was driving through. Wait a minute.

[Jesse Payo]

It.

[Michael McMillan]

I was fully about to say this happened to me, but it happened to my friend.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. I was like, how have you never told this?

[Michael McMillan]

My friend was driving. He used to live out in Santa Monica, and he was driving through, like, you know, few blocks from the ocean. And he said the whole sky lit up in a flash. And then immediately after the light receded, all the street lights started to go out. Boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Called me immediately. He was like, oh, my God. I was like the UFO guy. And he was like, I think I just had like. And I was like, well, they say that there's stuff over there, so that tracks, you know. He said it wasn't lightning. It was like this huge burst of light that like, held for a second and then vanished, to be fair.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, that could have been a transformer.

[Michael McMillan]

Could have been a transformer in no different.

[Riley Bray]

And then the lights all.

[Michael McMillan]

He said the whole sky lit up. Up. Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

I mean, if you were close to, it'd be pretty bright.

[Michael McMillan]

I've seen a transformer blow up before.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

My. My. My mom and I were driving in the car and I looked at it as it was happening.

[Riley Bray]

Do you think maybe you did it with your mind?

[Michael McMillan]

Yes, absolutely.

[Jesse Payo]

A car turned into a robot.

[Michael McMillan]

Yes. I've seen a lot of Transformers blow Up. You know, Decepticons.

[Riley Bray]

Michael, know why I am your friend?

[Michael McMillan]

Optimus prime got killed in Transformers. The movie Scar me for life, and.

[Jesse Payo]

I actually saw it.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, well, my friend saw it, but.

[Michael McMillan]

He told me I had a friend who told me I had a friend who told me that he. His dad had a. Had a turbo Porsche and there was a turbo button, and they could get downtown in 15 minutes.

[Jesse Payo]

Sounds like my dad's.

[Riley Bray]

Your daddy has turbo button, kid.

[Jesse Payo]

Lies are the best.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

But I'm like, guys, I actually did see freaking ghosts. Like, she's lying.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, you definitely. We're actually seeing ghosts, though.

[Jesse Payo]

So many dang ghosts.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. What did your friends think about this?

[Jesse Payo]

I mean, they're intrigued and they're like, do you have more? I'm like, yes. We could sit around for a long time. I have a ton of stories about it, and that's why I don't want to see. I don't want to see it anymore. Yeah, I went to the. That's recently. I went to the, the haunted museum. The. In Las Vegas.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, yeah?

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And I went and going. I was like, like, whatever, but, like, the part of me is like, oh, crap, let's see what's gonna happen in here. And I was totally fine for the most part. But then, like, when we went into the basement, I started getting that feeling again.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And then I got left behind from the group, and then it just felt like I started feeling that pull again that I get. And when I got upstairs, I started sweating profusely and I was gonna faint. And they're like, this happens all the time here.

[Michael McMillan]

You remember Donaly in, I think, the second episode? She was on the show. She had just come from that museum, and she was like, she was like, warded herself up before she went in there, and I think still experienced some weird stuff because she's also sensitive.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Aren't you ever curious, though, that, like, I mean, this feels like you're like an. You have, like, a mutant ability. Like, aren't you ever curious of, like, let's, let's, like, turn this up to 11 and see, see what happens.

[Jesse Payo]

I, I, I, I'm so scared.

[Michael McMillan]

Really.

[Jesse Payo]

I'm so scared. But part of me, like, I mean, there is that curiosity to, like, see what, what I could, how far I could take it if I could totally open up. But I am such a scaredy pants. Like, I'd be terrified.

[Riley Bray]

What is the root of the fear? Is it about, like, losing touch between reality? Is it about the entity doing something to you physically, like, what is. What is the fear? Is it just seeing the thing itself?

[Jesse Payo]

Just seeing the thing itself. It's like seeing a snake in the wild.

[Riley Bray]

Also, side note, Jesse has a snake phobia.

[Jesse Payo]

I love them.

[Riley Bray]

Which one time when we played a county fair, we did some exposure therapy.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, I was gonna say, I guess.

[Riley Bray]

We went in the snake exhibit. She did a good job.

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

I did okay.

[Michael McMillan]

I was like, I guess not a lot of herpetologists are also, like, scared of snakes, you know, so. But what if you were so good at finding snakes and catching snakes and identifying snakes, but you were scared, but.

[Riley Bray]

You had an Indiana Jones level.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

That would be why that's a really funny character. Like, let me go get that snake.

[Michael McMillan]

Jesse, that's you. But with ghosts, like, literally, that's who you are.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, my God. On Discovery Channel, there is this ghost hunter who's also very scary.

[Riley Bray]

It's like the opposite of that ghost bros show.

[Michael McMillan]

It is where they're, like, trying to fight. Nobody hurt me.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, my God. Did you just say something? Oh, you just said something. Oh, my God.

[Michael McMillan]

I don't want to fight you.

[Jesse Payo]

Like, okay, I'm here. Oh, hi.

[Riley Bray]

I'm just going to put on some headphones that are blindfolded. You do you.

[Jesse Payo]

I'm hurt you.

[Michael McMillan]

I'm creating space for you.

[Jesse Payo]

How can we close the door on this?

[Michael McMillan]

Speaking of closing the door, let's. Let's close it ever so briefly to go to a break, and then when we come back, we're going to play a game with Jesse Payo.

[Riley Bray]

Be right back.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of.

[Riley Bray]

The NFL and I'm CD Lam, wide.

[Michael McMillan]

Receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. You know, I'm here for Abercrombie's Cowboys gear. That's not a question, but I need.

[Riley Bray]

A whole wardrobe to go with it.

[Michael McMillan]

No shade to the guys, but I'm used to having the best tunnel fits. This season, Abercrombie has me covered. Shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store. This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something tiny, timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org, jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. The door's opening.

[Riley Bray]

Back up the door.

[Michael McMillan]

It's time for More Bigfoot Collectors Club. Okay, before we play our game, why don't we nominate a five star club Scout of the week. This is a friend of the show who has gone to Apple Podcasts and given us a five star review so more people can join us here in the clubhouse.

[Riley Bray]

Come on in. The. And here we are in the clubhouse.

[Michael McMillan]

Come on in. Yeah, and this is also a reminder that you can watch us right now on YouTube. So, you know, if you've already left a five star review, go over to the YouTube channel and like. And subscribe us over there, please.

[Riley Bray]

And leave a, leave a, leave a comment. YouTube. We're.

[Michael McMillan]

It's YouTube.

[Riley Bray]

It's like the wild west for us, coming from audio only.

[Michael McMillan]

I will say this while you pull this up. Yeah, we've been living in, like, the safety of, like, our dear friends in the clubhouse, like Patreon Instagram. We've been on YouTube for a few months now. And y' all are scary out there. Seriously, you guys, like, mean. Well, they're not.

[Riley Bray]

They just don't pull any punches over on YouTube. They're like, this podcast is boring and not well structured. You can like. Okay, sorry.

[Michael McMillan]

I'm scared. Listen, I'm scared to. To get into the YouTube comments. That's why I'm pretty quiet over there.

[Riley Bray]

I'm taking them in. I. I'll respond.

[Michael McMillan]

I'll put on my big boy pants, get over there. But, you know, be kind. We're just, we're just having a laugh over here. All right.

[Riley Bray]

Here. All right, well, this is. This is a nice comment from Kristen32. And wow, what a review this is. All right, the subject is making Bigfoot fun, which is no small fee. Feet and then feet. Get it?

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Riley Bray]

This podcast. This podcast is wildly entertaining. YouTube. The guys and guests discuss all the paranormal and transcendental topics that I have found myself drawn to since I was a kid watching Unsolved Mysteries glued to the TV as the fog rolled in over Robert Stack in his trench coat and the spooky synthesized music playing. Their podcast brings me back to a simpler time when I was filled with wonder and intrigued by the mysteries of the world. The moonlit canoe, scene of the Allagash abductions and unsolved mysteries. A ghostly book I discovered in my school library. The one with the image of the brown lady of Rhinum Hall.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, yeah, Random. All right. The Monsters of Loch Ness book that I kept till it was overdue. And of course, the first time I saw the Patterson Gimlin film, the guys and the Occasional guest. Cover it all with mostly jk. Well researched. All right, all right.

[Michael McMillan]

I do my best.

[Riley Bray]

I mean, fair. Honestly fair and always compelling stories. Thanks, guys, for filling my ear holes with delightful banter and tales that bring back the sense of awe and curiosity I felt as a kid. It's nice to be reminded that the world can still be a wondrous place.

[Michael McMillan]

Wow.

[Riley Bray]

Five stars.

[Michael McMillan]

32.

[Riley Bray]

I give that review. Five stars. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Five star review.

[Riley Bray]

What a beautifully written sort of tome to the whole.

[Michael McMillan]

I like the moonlit.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. Wow.

[Michael McMillan]

All right.

[Jesse Payo]

Poetry.

[Michael McMillan]

It's rare that we get a dash of romance in these.

[Riley Bray]

I know. That was. Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Moonlit canoe.

[Michael McMillan]

Appreciate it.

[Riley Bray]

Thanks, Kirsten.

[Michael McMillan]

32. Thank you so much. Okay, Jesse.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

I'm gonna go down a list of phenomena.

[Jesse Payo]

Okay.

[Michael McMillan]

Rapid fire. Okay. There. This is a game of black and white. This is a binary choice. Now there's no wiggle room. You have to decide. If you're open to it, you're gonna say believe it.

[Jesse Payo]

Okay.

[Michael McMillan]

If you're not open to it, you're gonna say, okay. All right.

[Jesse Payo]

Okay.

[Michael McMillan]

This is a game that we call or Believe it. All right, Jesse. Payo.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

On your mark. Get set.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Ghosts.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Bigfoot.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

UFOs.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Mothman. ESP.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Chupacabra. The Abominable Snowman. Ouija boards.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

The Loveland Frogman.

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know the frogman.

[Michael McMillan]

Well, the Loveland Frogman is a frog. A man sized. I almost said frog sized. Man.

[Riley Bray]

That would be adorable.

[Michael McMillan]

He's a man sized frog who walks on two legs and carries a magic wand. And we've heard he used to be called the Little Loveland Tadpole Boy.

[Riley Bray]

We made that up.

[Jesse Payo]

Really, really want to believe that.

[Michael McMillan]

Hopkins. Hopkinsville Goblins. Skunk. Ape.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Hollow Earth. The Loch Ness Monster. Crystal balls. The Beast of Busco.

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know the beast.

[Riley Bray]

Turtle.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, a big turtle.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Out of body experiences.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

The Michigan Dog Man.

[Jesse Payo]

I don't know that one either.

[Michael McMillan]

It's a man.

[Jesse Payo]

He's a dog man.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, he could be really hairy. I could believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Tarot cards. Oh, Wendigo's.

[Jesse Payo]

No. What is that?

[Riley Bray]

It's your cannibal forest monster.

[Michael McMillan]

Well, if you. If you're a cannibal.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

And you live in Canada, you will turn into a Wendigo, which is like a pale gauntlet, nightmarish looking creature with antlers. Life on other planets.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Life after death.

[Jesse Payo]

Believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

Wow. Well done.

[Riley Bray]

You kind of, like, growled.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. A Little bit like a little bit.

[Riley Bray]

Of a bark, kind of an annoyed.

[Michael McMillan]

Terrier there at the end. Do you think, Jesse, that the ghosts that you saw growing up were maybe not spirits of the dead, but maybe like, are you peeking into. Are you getting a glimpse into the past maybe, or even the future?

[Jesse Payo]

I think because I've had experiences with so many different types of ghostly figures. There's a mix. Like the ones that I saw when I was younger was a glimpse of the past. But I also have. But at the same time, the older I get, I feel like I have a weird, weird theory that it's just kind of like a glimpse into a different parallel universe that we happen to happen upon and we're just existing at the same time on different planes. That's one thing that I've considered. But as much as I've seen all of these figures or experienced it, like, I haven't really figured out a good reason why some people like me can be more susceptible to it and others. Others aren't.

[Michael McMillan]

Right. Well, some people have perfect pitch and other people are tone deaf.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. And some people can see. Go.

[Riley Bray]

Have you ever had any, like, physical interaction? I mean, you talked about that. Sleep paralysis, but they're cross between the dimension.

[Michael McMillan]

Has the glass ever moved across the table?

[Riley Bray]

Pictures, I mean, I guess the water.

[Jesse Payo]

Well, at the Whaley House and. Oh, the Whaley House, that's highly haunted.

[Michael McMillan]

We did an episode a few years ago now on the other side about the Whaley House. It's like a very, very haunted. It's one of the most haunted houses.

[Jesse Payo]

In one of the most haunted. Yeah. I had done the tour with my friend and her son, and he was. He was like, oh, man, I didn't even get to see any ghosts. And I was like, hell. Well, sometimes they just don't always appear. And. And as we're standing there, like in. In the gift shop, a jar, like a candy, like, not. Not like a candle glass candle jar, just flied off the shelf.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Jesse Payo]

Like, just. Just flew off and went. I was like, there's your ghost. And he goes, oh, man, that's pretty cool.

[Michael McMillan]

These kids today with their iPad. Pretty cool Roblox.

[Jesse Payo]

And the girl behind the cash, she goes, that happens all the time. I'm always picking up these candles.

[Riley Bray]

Wow.

[Jesse Payo]

But, yeah, I've seen that. And, you know, I've had doors open, but other than that, like, I've. I've felt like just the tingly on my neck and just. I get. I get sleep paralysis probably a couple times a year.

[Michael McMillan]

Have you Ever gotten any messages?

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay.

[Jesse Payo]

This was very strange. This was in a different house that we had another ghost that was an older man that would sometimes materialize on our balcony. But one time, in the upstairs bathroom, after the shower, after, I think my dad had taken a shower, he was like, why did you write on the mirror in the bathroom? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, come in here. And the steam was still going. And it had said visceral. And I was like, I don't know how to spell this. And my brother did it. And, like, my mom was like, what does that mean? And so we. We just chalked it up to, like, maybe that's the spirit. I don't know what it's trying to.

[Riley Bray]

Say, but it's your word of the day ghost.

[Jesse Payo]

It was my word of the day ghost. I was preparing for the sat.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Payo]

But that was the one time something was left in the house. That house also had a lot of activity where at the bottom of the stairs, we had come home, and it looked like someone had fallen through the wall at the bottom of the stairs. And we had to have the wall fixed.

[Michael McMillan]

Like, there was a big dent, as.

[Jesse Payo]

If someone had tumbled down the stairs and, like, fallen into the wall, and there was a big hole, Gaping hole at the bottom of the stairs in the wall.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa. That's crazy.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. That was a troubled ghost in that house.

[Michael McMillan]

Do you think it's the houses, or do you think it's you guys?

[Jesse Payo]

It's probably us. Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Sort of seems like it.

[Jesse Payo]

It's probably us haunted people.

[Michael McMillan]

What about the other members of your family? Are they still experiencing stuff like this?

[Jesse Payo]

No, No. I mean, my dad. I think when my dad passed, I think he probably. That's when things stopped, really, in that house that we experienced the message in the mirror and the hole in the wall. I remember coming home the day after he had passed, and the light in the house was a different color. It was just as illuminated, and it felt. Felt light. And the energy that was somewhat heavy in that house was gone. So my mom and I have talked that maybe he kind of cleansed whatever was following us in that specific house. And it was like, nope, you can't be in here anymore. He's like, this is my domain now. And that was the last time I actually felt something really, really like, you know, that was a story to tell. Other than that, it's just been a feeling.

[Michael McMillan]

Wow.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

I'm so sorry for your loss, too.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. He's a cool ghost.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Profound.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Really love it.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Wow. Well, man, this is why you gotta have a podcast. I've known Jesse a long time.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. These stories of all the people that it's not asking.

[Riley Bray]

I know the real, real sleeper cell here.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay, well, why don't we take a break? When we come back, it's time for this week's High Strangeness streaming September 4th on Peacock. We sell toilet tissue and local newspapers that is in order of quality. From the crew that brought you the office, my name is Ned Sampson. I am your new editor in chief. Comes a new comedy series.

[Jesse Payo]

Have you read this paper? Huh?

[Michael McMillan]

It sucks. But we are going to make it better. Meet the underdog journalists. I hope it's not too disruptive. Disruptive to have me shake everything up.

[Riley Bray]

Don't be so self defecating with major issues, Oscar.

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, God, not again. The paper Only on Peacock. September 4th.

[Jesse Payo]

Prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad delivered so fast you can get this puppy under control fast. We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast. Keypads, cooling mat, peg, hammer. Fast and fast. And there's training. T R E A T s faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute. Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on Prime.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay, everybody. The beast of Brace Studio has is getting settled, which means it's time once again for High Strangeness. Now, we're doing something a little different this week when it comes to the music. Do you want to explain what's happening? There he goes. Piece of break.

[Riley Bray]

There we go.

[Michael McMillan]

Studio's on the floor.

[Riley Bray]

He knows how to find his place. Well, you know, we, we. When the show started out, we were doing the live scores. And then during the pandemic got a little complicated. I started scoring afterwards, starting to play with live scoring again. We've never done a guest collaborative live score. However, since Jesse and I are in a band together, which we didn't even finish in that story that after I shot that music video for her, I was like, I need to be in this band. And I basically was like, what role? What open spot do you have? And she's like, well, I need a new drummer. And I was like, I play drums then.

[Michael McMillan]

Wow.

[Jesse Payo]

Like anything you want. Anything. I want to be in this band.

[Riley Bray]

I want to be in this band. Best edition Alien Playtime. So, yeah, anyways, I digress. So we're going to do a live score. Jesse has a a J200 which is funny because it is.

[Michael McMillan]

It's a guitar for Layman.

[Riley Bray]

Thank you. Like myself, it's also like, it doesn't.

[Jesse Payo]

Look like a guitar because I'm so small.

[Riley Bray]

And it is the biggest acoustic guitar pretty much you can get.

[Jesse Payo]

For those who are listening, it looks like I'm playing a stand up bass as a guitar.

[Riley Bray]

And then the compliment to that I will be playing.

[Michael McMillan]

Explain what's sitting in front of you.

[Riley Bray]

The world's tiniest piano.

[Michael McMillan]

Why did we say it's a. It's like.

[Riley Bray]

It's funnier this way.

[Michael McMillan]

It's like a cat food pink.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Toy piano.

[Riley Bray]

I was driving, I don't remember where, and I caught. I drove by a yard sale and out of the corner of my eye I was like, is that a tiny pink piano? And it was. So I, of course, immediately pulled over and I said, hey, how much for the piano? And she said, how about 20 bucks?

[Michael McMillan]

And I was like, yep, you got yourself a deal.

[Riley Bray]

So I will be playing that. It sounds like this.

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

This.

[Jesse Payo]

Spooky.

[Michael McMillan]

Perfect.

[Riley Bray]

So we'll see what happens. This is entirely experimental. We have not rehearsed this.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, on the fly.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, it's on the fly. We're going to see what happens.

[Michael McMillan]

See what happens, everybody.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Now, I'm very delighted by. Well, I'm just generally delighted by all of your ghost stories, but it's a perfect lead into what we're going to get into tonight because. Because you may not be the only person who has seen a ghost.

[Jesse Payo]

I'm not.

[Riley Bray]

Wait a minute.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. All right, here we go, kids. It's time for high strangeness.

[Riley Bray]

All right.

[Michael McMillan]

Rock and roll and the paranormal go together like peanut butter and jelly from David Bowie's Extraterrestrial Nature. Or the occult symbolism of Led Zeppelin inspired by the works of Aleister Crowley to conspiracy theories like Paul is dead or the synchronicity between the wizard of Oz and Pink Floyd's Dark side of the Moon. Popular music is full of mystery and magic. But what if some of the most iconic musicians ever manage to become one with the paranormal realm itself? After all, so many of our musical heroes die untimely and tragic deaths like characters and ghost stories. And what if there were photos to prove it? Or at the very least, make you question reality? Everyone has heard the saying rock and roll never dies. And on this week's segment of High Strangeness, we may have found the photographs to prove it. Dear club Scouts, I invite you to open your Instagram apps or join us on YouTube for this portion of the episode or. Or just sit back and paint these ghostly images in your mind's eye. It's time for rock and roll ghost pics. I'm not talking about. I'm not talking about haunted guitar picks. No. Although that would be cool. We're talking about alleged photographs of dead famous musicians. The first rock legends we're gonna discuss is the Jacksonville, Florida rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, hell yeah, brother.

[Michael McMillan]

On October 20, 1977, the band was flying from Greenville, South Carolina to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, when their charter plane, a Corvair C40, ran out of fuel and crashed in the Woodlands near Gillsburg, Mississippi. Mississippi crash killed Ronnie Van Sant, the band's lead vocalist and founding member, Steve Gaines, guitarist and vocalist, and Cassie Gaines, backup singer and Steve's sister. Road manager Dean kilpatrick. Pilot Walter McCreary and co pilot William John Gray also lost their lives. They were survived by 20 other passengers, including band members Alan Collins and Billy Powell, Artemis Pyle, Gary Rossington and Leon Wilkerson. A man by the name of Don Stallard from Nova Scotia, Canada, who had a personal connection to Lynyrd Skynyrd, which we'll talk about in a moment, was visiting the grave site of the three band members who died in the plane crash. Don took a photo of a tree where fans had left carvings and mementos during their visit. You can see the phrase Free Bird etched into the tree trunk. But it wasn't until weeks later that Don began to notice that emerging from the trees in the background, he was able to make out some familiar faces. The photo can be found on the ghost photo website, Halloween Unseen. And here's what Don said about his unworldly discovery. This pig was taken at Jack's Memory Gardens in Jacksonville, Florida, at the graves of Lynyrd Skynyrd's Ronnie Van Sant and Steve and Cassie Gaines. The picture was of the tree, which has Freebird carved in it. Months later, we notice the faces in the bushes in the background, which looks very much like the guys in the band. The film was 110 and is on the negative and appears on no other pics. What do you see? It took me months to see the faces too, actually. If you really look deeper, there are other faces in there. They had to be pointed out to me. I'm like you, I guess. Yeah, it's plain as day when you finally see them. I've had a long connection with Skinner, and the Van Zantz are friends of mine, and they were a little spooked, but Comforted by it as well. It does look like Cassie and Ronnie too. And they are were buried side by side there. Now other fans viewing the photos claim that they can see multiple faces emerging from the trees. Like this man Dave who wrote on the post. This is Dave from Louisiana. I found many more faces in the cemetery pick. I had to draw a sketch as to where to find faces and who they might be. The drawing shows Ronnie and Cassie and then another woman, maybe a long haired man, Dean Kilpatrick or Alan. Then above them to the left cheek of Ronnie is Leon and his police hat that he wore in England and on the Freebird movie. Then there's the side half of Allen's face on the right edge of the pick and face next to him in the dark area of the trees. And at the top right corner, Steve's face is in the leaves. Maybe send me the real pick and I'll. I'll put it in paint to show the exact features. This is amazing. All right, now we're gonna take a look. If you guys haven't already seen it at home. That was beautiful everybody.

[Riley Bray]

Fun. I mean such a tragic story though. That is such a.

[Jesse Payo]

It's really awesome.

[Riley Bray]

A truly awful tragedy.

[Michael McMillan]

Awful tragedy. All right, so take a look at this.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, let's have a look.

[Michael McMillan]

Picture here. Here you'll see. Now I printed out some copies for Jesse to take a look at and Riley, you can pull it up on the computer. Now the first two pages in your packet there, Jesse, you'll see that's the photo. If you look in the background, if you zoom in, you can see a couple faces. It's just a picture of the tree. But then look over here to the right. You see some faces appearing out of the tree. And if you, if you look at the next picture. Yeah, yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Okay.

[Michael McMillan]

This is the drawing that Dave from Louisiana did. It kind of maps out where all the faces are in the. The leaves of the tree or the bushes behind the Freebird tree.

[Jesse Payo]

That is.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, I'm seeing it more and more now.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, the longer you look at it, the more you can really make out more and more faces. There's chin at the bottom. You can see eyes, nose, mouth, mouth, chin.

[Riley Bray]

That one at the bottom is really.

[Jesse Payo]

That's the creepiest one.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, yeah. The guy right next. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

So what do you guys think about this? I mean, I mean paradoya.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, there's that for sure, but also paradoia. Paradoilia.

[Michael McMillan]

Is that paradoilies? That's what my grandma.

[Jesse Payo]

I think it's a pair of doilies.

[Michael McMillan]

On her favorite chair.

[Riley Bray]

Personally, I mean, just because the. The poetry of it, I want to.

[Jesse Payo]

Think that I want it to be real.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

They're hanging out, looking over the free bird tree.

[Jesse Payo]

Can't we just have magic?

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, we can have magic. You like?

[Riley Bray]

Let's go ahead and have this one.

[Michael McMillan]

We're going to have this one.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

It's pretty cool, though. And it is kind of spooky how many faces seem to come out of this. No longer that you look at it.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. It's really not just the one.

[Michael McMillan]

It's.

[Riley Bray]

You really start seeing them.

[Michael McMillan]

There's, like, little faces up towards the top, too.

[Jesse Payo]

I know.

[Riley Bray]

Wow.

[Michael McMillan]

It's very strange.

[Jesse Payo]

Wow.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

This reminds me of a photo that I saw in a book as a kid in my school library of a little girl sitting on, like, a chaise lounge around the turn of the century. And, like, all these faces are. Had appeared in the wall behind her, and it was super creepy.

[Riley Bray]

Whoa.

[Michael McMillan]

Might have been fake, but scared the daylights out of me. All right, so we're gonna move on.

[Riley Bray]

All right. We'll fire up the band again for you.

[Jesse Payo]

Really fun.

[Michael McMillan]

Tell us what you guys think at home.

[Jesse Payo]

Like, oh, my gosh.

[Michael McMillan]

The next photo for submission comes from Paris, France, taken at the grave site of. Of.

[Riley Bray]

Right, right.

[Michael McMillan]

Jim Morrison. Oh.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Jesse Payo]

Okay.

[Riley Bray]

Right, Right, Right, right, right, right, right. Jim Morrison is buried. He died in the bathtub in France.

[Michael McMillan]

He died in the bathtub in France.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

The Doors lead singer died in the early morning hours of July 3, 1971, at the age of 27 years. The official cause is listed as cont. Congestive heart failure. Although there are theories that Morrison, who, like Riley said, was found in the bathtub by his girlfriend, Pamela Corson, may have died of a heroin overdose or something else. The French authorities performed. Noah. No autopsy, so there's no way to mean that we can know for sure. Now, I'm going to take a little moment here to talk about the 27 Club. You guys heard about the 27 Club?

[Jesse Payo]

Yes, of course.

[Michael McMillan]

Guys are musicians, rock stars, you know. So the 27 Club is a. It's not a real club. It's not like the Bigfoot Collectors Club. It's a sad club. It's the people, famous musicians who died at the age of 27. We have Jimi Hendrix, who died of a drug overdose in 1970. We have Janis Joplin, the iconic front. Oh, excuse me. A powerful singer, songwriter. Joplin died of a heroin overdose in 1971. Of my favorites, Kurt Cobain, the iconic frontman of Nirvana who died by suicide in 1994. And sadly, Amy Winehouse, soul singer. Winehouse died of alcohol poisoning in 2011. There's also Brian Jones, the original guitarist of the Rolling Stones. Robert Johnson, a blues guitarist. We can toss in Jean Michel Basquiat, a prominent artist. Basquiat died of a heroin overdose in 1988. Kristen Pfaff, bassist for the band Hole. Pfaff died of a heroin overdose in 94, two months after Kurt Cobain. And Ron Pigpen McKernan, an original member of the Grateful Dead. McKernan died in 1973 from complications of alcoholism and a rare autoimmune disease. As for Jim Morrison and his gravesend, there's an infamous photo that has gone around the Internet over the past 20 or so years. Claims to be a photo taken of or by Tom Petty standing at Morrison's gravesite in 1997. And if you look closely in the background, you can see what looks like the spectral form of Jim Morrison in his iconic arm spread pose standing in the background. Now, this photo has caused a lot of controversy. For one, there's no claim by Tom Petty that he ever took this photo. And the Miami Psychical Research Society claims that after examining this picture, they believe it's a Pepper's ghost style hoax perpetuated by music historian Brett Meisner, who I believe originally posted the picture back in the early to mid 2000s. However, there are expert analysis groups out there who claim that the image is not faked. And this photo seems to have a, a life and death cycle on the Internet. It comes and it goes and it comes and it goes. And here it is showing up again. So let's turn our attention to this picture. We see a man who, who kind of looks like Tom Petty or is maybe a friend of Tom Petty. People say it's Tom Petty. I don't know about this.

[Riley Bray]

No, it's not.

[Michael McMillan]

That's not, that's not, Not Tom Petty, not Tom Petty. But people say it's. People say Tom Petty took the picture.

[Riley Bray]

How did Tom Petty take the picture? And it's Tom Petty.

[Jesse Payo]

That's Tom Petty's guitar tech.

[Riley Bray]

That's part of the problem.

[Michael McMillan]

It's part of the problem. Maybe he set it up on a gravestone, but you can see in the background, there does look to be. Now there's a man who's not Tom Petty standing at the grave. And in the background at the doorway of a mausoleum, you can see a pale ghostly figure with his arms outstretched if you want.

[Jesse Payo]

He's going, hey.

[Michael McMillan]

Break on through to the other side.

[Jesse Payo]

You're at my grave.

[Michael McMillan]

What do you guys think about this one? Jim Morrison's ghost?

[Jesse Payo]

This is hilarious. There are people that can look at this photo. Answer. Really funny. He's like, hey, hey, Tom.

[Michael McMillan]

I like that it not only involves Jim Morrison, but they have to bring Tom Petty into it.

[Riley Bray]

It would have been more believable without the Tom Petty.

[Michael McMillan]

I know. It's kind of a half and a half.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, it fully is. Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And then. And then there's the random guy that's in the photo.

[Michael McMillan]

That's Tom Petty, everybody.

[Jesse Payo]

That is not Tom Petty. That is his partner.

[Michael McMillan]

That's the debate about the picture. That is.

[Jesse Payo]

That's his ace.

[Michael McMillan]

Is this Tom Petty?

[Riley Bray]

That is Tom Petty. I'm sorry, but Tom Petty has never looked less co. Look, it's definitely not.

[Michael McMillan]

This is the wildest picture. This is the funniest, wildest story and the wildest picture. But you can see where people see a figure in the background.

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

It kind of looks more like Michael Jackson to me. Like, doing, like, the moonwalker.

[Riley Bray]

It is. Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

With the.

[Michael McMillan]

The.

[Riley Bray]

The wind blowing the sh.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. Or. Yeah, that. Exactly.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

I don't know. So where. Where do you guys fall on this one? Or believe it?

[Jesse Payo]

I don't believe this one.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

All right.

[Riley Bray]

You were saying that the.

[Jesse Payo]

It's kind of funny.

[Riley Bray]

The origin of it is sort of.

[Michael McMillan]

It's vague.

[Riley Bray]

Vague.

[Michael McMillan]

It's vague. And, you know, I think this has become one of these Internet legends now, you know? But it's fun.

[Jesse Payo]

It's fun.

[Michael McMillan]

It's fun as hell.

[Jesse Payo]

I love searching for these possible photos and watching videos of. Is that a ghost? Is that not a ghost? So regardless, it's fun. And this ghost in this picture is having a really good time.

[Michael McMillan]

Having a blast. I mean, maybe it's just a ghost.

[Jesse Payo]

Maybe it's just.

[Michael McMillan]

Maybe it's just a guy.

[Jesse Payo]

Or maybe the ghost is like, I want to be Jim Horse's ghost.

[Riley Bray]

Maybe the ghost is going, just a huge fan.

[Michael McMillan]

He's going, look at me. I'm here, too. I have a mausoleum.

[Jesse Payo]

I have a whole suite.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, come on inside. Celebrity cribs.

[Jesse Payo]

Celebrity Crips. Instead of cribs, it's Crips.

[Michael McMillan]

Celebrity Crips. Yeah, Celebrity Crips. There you go. Crips. Okay, let's go. Let's finally, let's travel back across the Atlantic, all right. To New York City, near the Dakota Hotel, where not one but several photos exist, claiming to have Captured the ghost of John Lennon on film. John Lennon was murdered on December 8, 1980, by Mark David Chad Chapman. Chapman, who was a fan of the Beatles, shot Lennon multiple times in the back as he passed by him on his way into the hotel. Perhaps the most infamous death in rock and roll history. Lennon's murder shook the world. In the years since, many eyewitnesses have claimed to see his ghost in and around the Dakota Hotel Hotel, often strolling through Central park in the early hours of the morning. It's rumored. I found this quote on a website that I forgot to cite, but it's rumored that during one seance, the spirit of John Lennon's manager, Brian Epstein, warned John Lennon that he would be shot and that he needed to take care. Yeah, there were omens for in his life that he had about this murder. And in 1969, while holidaying in Greece, Lennon was warned that he would be killed on an island. At the time, he thought it was one of the Greek islands. And he came home and was like, I'm. I'm fine. And then, of course, Yoko Ono later went, manhattan's an island. So some of these eyewitnesses claim to have photographed John Lennon as we shall now see. This first picture is of an Ohio tourist named Lisa Marsh, who took a picture standing in front of the Dakota Hotel. When the film was developed back home, she saw the ghostly visage of John Lennon standing over her shoulder. I mean, that looks more like John Lennon than.

[Riley Bray]

That's a good enough one to stop.

[Michael McMillan]

The music than that, man Looks like Tom Petty.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, that's scary.

[Michael McMillan]

This one's pretty spooky.

[Riley Bray]

That's like Disneyland haunted, man.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, isn't it?

[Michael McMillan]

Oh, man, it's like an animatronic.

[Jesse Payo]

This one gives me chills.

[Michael McMillan]

This one.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

So what are you. What does your ghost detector tell you about this one?

[Jesse Payo]

Let's fire up the ghost detector. Flip the switch back on. That is giving me chills.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Isn't that wild?

[Riley Bray]

You can even see, like, the lines of the coat.

[Michael McMillan]

Yep. You can see his sunglasses and, like, hair.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

That's spooky.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Could it be a double exposure of this woman? The hair's not the same.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, let's see here.

[Michael McMillan]

The outfit's not.

[Jesse Payo]

The nose is a little the same.

[Michael McMillan]

The nose and cheek are a little bit of the same, but.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, like some. Some sort of.

[Michael McMillan]

But it even looks like it's got its hand around its. That is wild. That's weird. Now, this woman looks like, you know, kind of like a woman who works. You know, she's like. She works at the bank. You know, she's like a Midwestern mom.

[Jesse Payo]

Kathy.

[Michael McMillan]

Like, why would this lady want.

[Riley Bray]

Was she specifically visiting the site where.

[Michael McMillan]

She took this in front of the Dakota Hotel? Because she was like, this is a famous landmark.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah. She doesn't look like someone came home.

[Michael McMillan]

Like, planned A, developed the pictures and.

[Riley Bray]

Saw this really morbidly weird tourist photo.

[Michael McMillan]

But. Well, yeah, but if you're like the.

[Riley Bray]

Imagine thing in the park.

[Michael McMillan]

Well, guess what, Riley? Oh, we're heading into Central park right now because these next two photos allegedly show John Lennon in Central Park. The first is a shadowy figure walking through the park in the early morning hours. And the other is Lennon sitting on a bench near his Central park memorial. Now, I would say the shadowy figure, he's kind of wearing a peacoat or long coat and there's long hair. This could be John Lennon or this could be a. Just like a New Yorker from, like the 1800s. But I can see why people think that this might be John Lennon with his back turned towards camera. What do you guys think here?

[Jesse Payo]

I was gonna say it looks like his, like, lean, like his w. Like his.

[Riley Bray]

His posture, sort of swagger. Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

And then in the second photo, which I've zoomed in on.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

I mean, this just looks like John Lennon sitting on a bench. And it's right next to the little Strawberry Fields or the Imagine disc right there.

[Jesse Payo]

See, that's this one. This. This one with him on the bench is the most believable.

[Michael McMillan]

It's the. Really. Why do you say that?

[Jesse Payo]

Because it looks like him.

[Michael McMillan]

But do you think it could be a double exposure or like somebody put that on? You know what I mean? Little photo trick.

[Jesse Payo]

Let me see it on your computer.

[Riley Bray]

I sort of just see the floating head.

[Jesse Payo]

I see his arms, like he's leaning back.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, now I see it.

[Jesse Payo]

It's like.

[Michael McMillan]

See that?

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

You know, it's very John Lennon esque. I will say that. Don't worry. I'm putting all of this up on the Instagram. People will be able to see this on the video and I will put this up on Instagram.

[Riley Bray]

Wow.

[Michael McMillan]

So.

[Jesse Payo]

So it looks like him.

[Michael McMillan]

It does kind of look like him.

[Riley Bray]

I mean, it does, it does.

[Jesse Payo]

I've always wanted to be a goose.

[Riley Bray]

I'm a ghost.

[Jesse Payo]

I can't do John Len accent.

[Riley Bray]

It's pretty good.

[Michael McMillan]

Well, if you think that one's good, let's take a look at this last one. Lennon's ghost has also been seen in Hamburg, Germany.

[Riley Bray]

Let's do a spooky German one.

[Michael McMillan]

Now this shot was taken by a tourist named Otto Werner. And it is. Is in Hamsburg, in an area that I believe is near one of the clubs where the Beatles used to play in Hamburg. In Hamburg, yes. Sorry.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, okay, so like the, the Cavern Club.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, it's near the Cavern Club.

[Riley Bray]

Okay.

[Michael McMillan]

I don't think it's right there, but it's. They've seen. There's other people who have seen him walking up and down the streets of Hamburg. Now this one is very much like. This is John Lennon in full. Like Muppet get up.

[Riley Bray]

This one's all almost too.

[Michael McMillan]

It's almost too.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, this is almost just a picture of a person.

[Michael McMillan]

It's a black and white photo of like a little alleyway with an arch and trees in the background and you can see some brick and some like, you know, pretty wild. Some like advertisements posting. And there is just a transparent figure of what looks like John Lennon in a big floppy hat with his sunglasses staring directly into the camera lens.

[Riley Bray]

Honestly, this one to me looks a little bit more like Yoko Ono.

[Jesse Payo]

It does look like Yoko, right? Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

You're getting Yoko vibe from this one.

[Michael McMillan]

Maybe it's future Yoko. I mean, I do think Yoko styled him in this photo. Styled his ghost.

[Riley Bray]

They did start. They did start looking a lot like.

[Michael McMillan]

They did start looking a lot alike. It's true. Well, there you have it. Iconic musicians leaving their mark well beyond their time in this realm. But what do you think, club scouts? Were these photos hoaxed by hopeful fans trying to keep their heroes alive? Or are these musicians still finding the spotlight in their death rock and roll ghost picks? You know what? Worth it for the baby toy piano. Baby grand toy piano alone. What do you guys think?

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, man. I mean, I mean, I will say the. The Lennon one is pretty.

[Riley Bray]

The Bench one, that's your favorite.

[Michael McMillan]

The first one. The Bench one with the woman.

[Jesse Payo]

I'm still laughing at the Jim Morrison.

[Michael McMillan]

The Jim Morrison one's great. Hi, it's me. I'm back. I sound like this now.

[Jesse Payo]

That's what it looks like. The arms reached.

[Michael McMillan]

I mean, the thing about, the thing about John Lennon is there are a lot of ghost stories about him in the hotel. And there's also a famous ghost in the Dakota Hotel called the Crying Woman. People see a crying woman walking up and down the halls. And John Lennon claimed that he saw the crying woman himself when he was staying there.

[Jesse Payo]

Oh, that's super creepy.

[Michael McMillan]

So now they're both there and people said, I think Sean Lennon said that he came to visit him after he died, his son and he. Paul McCartney said that. That in 1995, when they were doing that, like, Beetle. Big Beatles Anthology, where they're, like, making that big album where they had found all the lost stuff and they were finishing that. Oh, what was that song? That.

[Jesse Payo]

Free as a Bird.

[Michael McMillan]

Free as a Bird. They said when they were recording that he said he could absolutely feel John enter and sit with them in the room while they were recording. So I do think whether these photos are, you know, real or not.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

That John Lennon is definitely a ghost that has visited people in his life and that people in the hotel have seen.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

I mean, it would make so much sense.

[Riley Bray]

It was also such a, like, violent and shocking and tragic death.

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah.

[Riley Bray]

Horrible.

[Michael McMillan]

Like.

[Riley Bray]

Like, it's. Of course I feel like that. Why. Why wouldn't that leave an imprint? Well, that's on this reality.

[Michael McMillan]

That's what I'm seeing. Like, so many of these deaths are tragic. Sound like deaths in ghost stories that lead to ghosts.

[Jesse Payo]

You know, sticking around. I mean, he already felt like, as a writer, I felt like there was haunted undertones in a lot of his writing.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And so he was probably like, on another level already.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Or his death.

[Riley Bray]

I didn't know that bit about the island thing.

[Michael McMillan]

That's.

[Jesse Payo]

I didn't either.

[Michael McMillan]

That's pretty wild. Wild, spooky stuff, right?

[Jesse Payo]

Super spooky.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

I don't know. And I also think as musicians, like. Like when you're at that level, especially, like, I think, like, they are just. They. They are like magical entities at that. You know, like, basically when you're at that level with that reach and you're creating stuff that leaves such an impact, there's like a psychic field that you. Penetrating, you know, in people's mind. So I also think you become sort of. You're elevated in a weird, weird way.

[Jesse Payo]

I.

[Michael McMillan]

There's such a close.

[Jesse Payo]

I believe it.

[Michael McMillan]

You know what I mean? I mean, you've described us performing on stage as like a ritual as well. You know what I mean?

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a big part of it.

[Jesse Payo]

It's vibrational and you're. You're tapping into different frequencies.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

That way.

[Michael McMillan]

I'm not saying that, like, that's making them ghosts. I'm just saying that there's. There's an element.

[Riley Bray]

I hope it is.

[Michael McMillan]

That would be cool, but you know what I mean, there's like. I'll stick around position to their. To their art and their lifestyle in the paranormal, you know, for sure, I think. Anyway. All right, well, thank you, Jesse, for being here. Where can people find your work and find you on social media? Do you want to give some plugs?

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, I'll give some plugs. You can find me on Instagram. Jesse Payo. That's Jesse with an ie Payo. Like pay your bills, Jesse Payo. Essipeo Orom Pomsmusic where you can see me and Riley get weird and have a fun pizza party in space.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

And all my music's on all the streaming platforms underneath either Jesse Payo or Pom Poms. And check it out.

[Michael McMillan]

I love it.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. And come check us out over BCC the other side, the parallel dimension of Bigfoot Collectors Club over at patreon.com Bigfoot Collectors Club. You unlock three bonus episodes every month. You can gain access to the BCC Discord if you upgrade to the cosmic tier members membership. You can watch Patreon exclusive video episodes and you can unlock cosmic tracks from the. My. What was it? The transmedia maestro himself?

[Riley Bray]

Sure. Yeah. Riley Ray.

[Michael McMillan]

That's right. So join us over there, I think as a plug on the way out. I want to remind everybody we're going to kind of lightly dance through Tiptoe through Collector's Corner this week because I want to remind everybody about the merch. I think we should end. End this episode with a. With a video.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, I like that idea of that.

[Michael McMillan]

You guys have made at the Pom poms. Do you want to like, pick. Pick a video that you want to. You want to tack on. And a song. The song will tack onto the end of the audio episode.

[Riley Bray]

I mean, should we do our most recent work or should we do the one that brought it together in the first place?

[Jesse Payo]

Yeah, let's. Let's do the origin story video.

[Riley Bray]

Man. I kind of want to do both. I really. Our most recent one features aliens.

[Jesse Payo]

Okay. Let's go with the most recent, which is. I think you're right. And that's available online, but we'll tag.

[Michael McMillan]

That and then I'll put a link in the show notes to your other videos so people can also check those out.

[Riley Bray]

And then. Yeah, if you want to see the day that we became friends and I decided to join Pom Poms, Jesse didn't know it yet.

[Michael McMillan]

I love it.

[Riley Bray]

Go check out stuff.

[Michael McMillan]

Okay. We're going to Riley. We're going to say goodbye to Jesse. Riley and I are going to cross over to the other side where we are going to. What are we doing this week? Oh, yes, that's right. We're reviewing the truly bonkers, truly 1977 Japanese horror movie house.

[Riley Bray]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Payo]

Yes.

[Michael McMillan]

This is maybe one of my favorite Bigfoot movie clubs ever.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

So you're definitely going. Not going to want to miss our discussion about this movie.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah, that one was a wild ride. I've never seen it and. Oh, wow.

[Michael McMillan]

Yeah. If you haven't seen it, you want to catch up in time for Friday's Other side episode. Go do it.

[Riley Bray]

Yeah.

[Michael McMillan]

All right, everybody, if we don't see you there, we'll see you back here on Wednesday for an all new episode of bcc. Until then, good night and go get regressed. Bye. Bye. Thank you, Jesse. Well done, you little muppet band. That was great.

[Riley Bray]

That's very.

[Michael McMillan]

Bigfoot. Collectors Club is produced and engineered by Riley Bray and executive produced by Riley bray and Michael McMillan. Our theme song, come Alone is by Suneaters, courtesy of Lotus Pool Records. Follow Suneaters on Spotify for three bonus episodes every month and ad free episodes. Check out BCC, the other [e-mail].

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

Bigfootcollectorsclub 2 days just days and I'm bored Stop for attention I know the pale I'm waiting on a mess White jeans, shaking my lips Kicked it like you're not a part of it Kick me on the fence oh no let you go I think you're right I think you're right Take it, you're on I think you're right I think you're right.

[Jesse Payo]

Not the only one.

[Guest Vocalist or Musician]

I'm a bad dress Keeping it clean wanna do it right I can't help it I got a dirty mind Spilling up on the door longer where did you go? I think you're right I think think you're right Take you I think you're right I think you're right Somebody said call me I think you're right I know can't let it go I think you're right I think you're right I think you're right I think you're right I think you're right Take it slow you're on the road I think you're right I think you're right Somebody said for me I think you're right I know let it go I think you're right I think you're right I think you're right I think you like.