Barista FIRE at 36 with ONLY $500K by Trading “Stuff” for Substance

Summary

Podcast Summary: BiggerPockets Money Podcast – "Barista FIRE at 36 with ONLY $500K by Trading 'Stuff' for Substance"

Introduction

In the April 1, 2025 episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, host Mindy Jensen engages in a compelling conversation with Julie B. Rose, a financial independence enthusiast who achieved Barista FIRE at the age of 36 with a portfolio of $500K. Julie shares her inspiring journey from a conventional career path to a nomadic lifestyle, emphasizing the importance of financial education, minimalism, and strategic investing.

Early Relationship with Money

Julie begins by reflecting on her upbringing and early financial habits. Despite a typical education about money—such as saving, tracking expenses, and paying off loans—she admits, “We never learned anything about investing, we never learned anything about maximizing” (02:22). This lack of investment education led her to initially spend money frivolously, believing that saving alone would suffice. It wasn’t until her adulthood that she took it upon herself to learn about personal finance and investing.

Post-College Financial Struggles

Upon graduating, Julie was fortunate not to have college loans, thanks to her parents’ support. However, she quickly found herself burdened with a significant car loan. Starting her career in journalism with a $33,000 annual salary, Julie opted to purchase a costly car and rent an apartment, only to realize that her income didn’t cover her expenses. This led her to take on a second job, a common struggle many young professionals face when starting out (03:42).

Career Setbacks and Financial Realization

Julie’s financial stability was shaken during the Great Recession when she was laid off from her newsroom position after a year and a half. The brief two-week severance period exposed her vulnerability and ignited a determination to secure her financial future. Relocating to Phoenix for a better job opportunity, she temporarily moved back with her parents, recognizing the fragility of job security and the necessity of a financial buffer (05:15).

The Turning Point: Backpacking and Financial Planning

During a five-month layoff, Julie embarked on a life-changing backpacking trip across Europe. Living frugally with just a carry-on backpack, she realized the excess in her possessions and the realization that her true happiness derived from experiences rather than material possessions. This period of travel catalyzed her commitment to financial independence and a nomadic lifestyle (06:28).

Discovering Barista FIRE and Investment Strategies

After returning from Europe, Julie delved into the FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement, focusing on Barista FIRE—a variant that allows for semi-retirement with minimal work. She educated herself through books, blogs, and initially sought help from a financial advisor. Her investment strategy included maximizing her Roth IRA and 401(k), along with diversified investments in broad market indices like VTI and FXAIX. Julie emphasizes the addictive nature of investing due to the compounding effect, stating, “It was really a combination... it was like, how much more money can I pump in and how much more can come up” (09:39).

Building a Nomadic Lifestyle through Side Hustles

To support her nomadic lifestyle, Julie engaged in various side hustles. Her primary venture involved renting out her three-bedroom house in Phoenix during the tourist season, generating significant income. Additionally, she bartended at the Phoenix Open, consigned items, walked dogs, and explored other freelance opportunities. These efforts not only supplemented her income but also reinforced her commitment to financial independence without compromising her desire to travel (14:35).

Minimizing Expenses and Maximizing Experiences

Julie shares her strategic approach to expenses, highlighting that her nomadic life costs significantly less than living in the U.S. While her spending on travel, flights, accommodations, and food remains substantial, she manages to maintain a high standard of living abroad on a fraction of what she previously spent in the States. She emphasizes mindful spending, ensuring that her expenditures contribute to her desired lifestyle rather than unnecessary consumerism (34:11).

Healthcare Management While Traveling

A critical aspect of Julie’s nomadic lifestyle is managing healthcare. She employs a trifecta approach:

1. ACA Plan: Minimal cost due to her low income, covering short-term healthcare needs in the U.S.
2. Travel Medical Insurance: Covers emergencies and potential evacuation needs abroad.
3. Out-of-Pocket Payments: Affordable healthcare costs in countries like Mexico, where she can access quality care for a fraction of U.S. prices (43:37).

This strategy ensures comprehensive coverage while keeping expenses manageable, debunking the myth that healthcare is prohibitively expensive abroad.

Barista FIRE: Financial Independence, Recreational Employment

Julie redefines FIRE as “Financial Independence, Recreational Employment,” highlighting her ability to choose work that aligns with her passions without financial pressure. She explains, “I can choose... I can say no” (30:20), allowing her to maintain flexibility and autonomy over her time. This approach enables her to pursue meaningful projects and travel without being tethered to a full-time job.

Net Worth and Financial Growth

When Julie decided to quit her job in 2020, her net worth had just surpassed $500K. Since then, her investments have continued to grow, despite recent market fluctuations. She adopts a “hit and quit” mentality, not being overly concerned with short-term market dips, trusting in the long-term upward trend of the stock market (38:43). Her disciplined investment strategy has allowed her wealth to grow steadily, providing financial security while she enjoys her nomadic lifestyle.

Living a Fulfilled Life Through Financial Independence

Julie’s experiences underscore the essence of financial independence—not merely accumulating wealth but using it to live a life of purpose and fulfillment. She contrasts her life abroad with conventional U.S. living, asserting that her experiences in diverse cultures and environments have enriched her life far beyond potential financial gains (41:02). Her message encourages listeners to prioritize experiences and personal growth over material possessions.

Conclusion and Advice

Julie concludes by advocating for a balanced approach to financial planning and living in the moment. She emphasizes not getting bogged down by worst-case scenarios, instead making thoughtful decisions that align with personal happiness and financial goals. Her journey illustrates that financial independence is achievable with disciplined saving, strategic investing, and a willingness to embrace minimalism and flexibility.

Notable Quotes

• “We never learned anything about investing, we never learned anything about maximizing.” – Julie B. Rose (02:22)
• “The math doesn't math.” – Julie B. Rose (03:27)
• “It was really a combination... how much more money can I pump in and how much more can come up.” – Julie B. Rose (09:39)
• “I'm pulling a little bit from my brokerage just to sort of like maybe pay off a monthly credit card when my income doesn't match.” – Julie B. Rose (23:47)
• “I'm financially independent... I can choose...” – Julie B. Rose (30:20)
• “The cost of living is less, but the standard of living is not.” – Julie B. Rose (34:11)

Where to Find Julie B. Rose

Listeners interested in learning more about Julie’s journey and accessing her resources can visit her website juliedavivre.com or follow her on Instagram @uliérose. Her blog offers detailed insights into her travel experiences, financial strategies, and minimalistic lifestyle, providing valuable inspiration for those aspiring to achieve financial independence.

Final Thoughts

Julie B. Rose’s story is a testament to the power of financial education, strategic investing, and the pursuit of personal fulfillment. By trading material possessions for meaningful experiences and maintaining a disciplined financial approach, she exemplifies how achieving financial independence can open doors to a life rich in adventure and purpose.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Imagine swapping your morning commute for a sunrise hike in Mexico or typing from a beachside cafe in Bali, effectively making retirement happen decades ahead of schedule. After strategically building her financial foundation, Julie did exactly that. She achieved barista fire in 2021, that sweet spot where she'd saved up enough money to work minimally while her investments grew. Now, living a nomadic life most only dream about, she's sharing how she find finances, her freedom, handles health care on the road and finds purpose beyond traditional careers. All while her wealth continues to grow in the background. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Puppets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen. Scott's out playing hooky today, but he'll be back next week. I am so excited to welcome Julie B. Rose to the podcast. She has an incredible financial independence story and we will cover it all in today's episode. Julie, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited to talk to you.

[Julie B. Rose]

I'm so excited too. Thank you for having me.

[Mindy Jensen]

Before we dive into your nomadic lifestyle, what was your relationship with money growing up?

[Julie B. Rose]

I think I had a fairly normal relationship and education about money. In terms of what they tell you in high school about don't overdraw your checking account. And this is how to do a basic accounting spreadsheet. My parents kind of taught me to track, save some of your money, pay off loans as quickly as you can. But we never learned anything about investing, we never learned anything about maximizing. We kind of followed that same track that the rest of Americans have been told to, hey, you should buy a car as soon as you can because freedom, you know, and I spent my money a bit foolishly growing up, but I thought, you know, I'm pretty smart, I'll just save a little bit. But as we all know, saving is, is not really the best way to make your money grow. So I really had to teach myself a lot about money in my later adulthood. I suppose my, my 30s and like the rest of us, we've been pretty self taught because the high schools don't really do it justice.

[Mindy Jensen]

They really don't. And we are starting to see more and more bills that are coming into legislatures that are being passed saying yes, we should give our high school students financial education. But I have a high school myself right now. She has to take a half a credit to graduate. That's not enough in my opinion. It's a start. It's a great start, but it's not enough. We could do better.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah.

[Mindy Jensen]

What was your financial position leaving college?

[Julie B. Rose]

My dad My parents helped pay for my college, and I paid for, I think, about half of it. So I didn't come in with any college loans. I didn't come into my first job with any college loans. But I sure came in with a big car loan.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes.

[Julie B. Rose]

Like everybody else, I'm like, hey, I made it. I got my first job. I'm making $33,000 a year. I'm gonna buy a new car. That was $22,000. Right. I'm gonna get my own apartment that costs $750 a month. And then, of course, I had insurance and all my essential bills, and I get to that job, and then I get my first paycheck, and I'm like, wait a second.

[Mindy Jensen]

What's fica?

[Julie B. Rose]

The math doesn't math.

[Mindy Jensen]

The math doesn't math.

[Julie B. Rose]

I had to get a second job. Even though I theoretically had made it out of college into my first professional job, I had to get a second job working two jobs out of college just to pay for life.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah. And that, unfortunately, is not even a unique story. I hear that all the time. By the time I got done with my paycheck, there was no money left, and I still had more bills. And that is. That. That is really disappointing. So what was your career? What did you study in college?

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, my first career was journalism. So I. I started in the newsroom. I actually had a. Went to a school that was really well known for their journalism program, and I was really active in it. And once I left college, I had the fortune of being hired right in a Market 15 newsroom, which most new graduates have to start in a small to medium market. I started in a large market. I started as a producer, so I skipped the intern or the associate. And so theoretically, like, I had a great job, you know, but it was 33,000 a year at the time, and it couldn't. I couldn't afford everything else because I had that in my head. Hey, I made it. I can now spend accordingly. And it just. It just doesn't work that way.

[Mindy Jensen]

How long did you work the second job? How long did you have two jobs for?

[Julie B. Rose]

Oh, let's see. So I actually, it's a little bit unique. This was during the Great Recession, so I was laid off from my news job after about a year and a half. And luckily, I had that second job, like working at a fitness club, opening up the cafe at five in the morning. So I had something to do during this layoff, and yay. I had about two weeks of severance. But that realization. The realization that that could happen to me really shook things up for me, and it didn't take me that long to find another job. I actually, that's what moved me to Phoenix is I got a job offer out in Phoenix for, luckily, more money. But it really shook me that, hey, your job is not guaranteed, and it could be snatched away from you in an instant. And if you don't have any buffer, if you don't have any preparation, if you don't have any, like, financial landing pad, you are relatively screwed. And so I actually had to move back home with my parents for a little bit during this. During this little period of underemployment until I got to Phoenix to start my new job.

[Mindy Jensen]

I'm sad that this was your experience, but I'm also really glad this was your experience because little foreshadowing, it sounded like this turned you in a different direction. What did you do with this realization that your job isn't secure?

[Julie B. Rose]

Well, it's. You know, you'd think I would have got the. Got the message the first time around, because I. Then I went to Phoenix and I got a pay increase, and I'm like, whoa, yay. You know, like, life's back on track. I only had a little bit of a blip, and I can keep spending. And so I was stuck in that consumerist mindset and buying things like new clothes every month and still, like, paying for my nice car. And you just get, oh, there's pampered chef and there's Leah, Sophia, and there's all these stupid shopping trends. And you. There's a little bit of the, like, as you're in your 20s and your friends are moving ahead in their career, and you want to give the impression that you're moving ahead in your career. So, like, look at the new stuff I bought, and look at the parties I'm throwing, the. The dinner parties. And, like, look how I'm moving up in the world. I felt that pressure a lot. And so I look back now with a who different lens of, like, oh, my God, what was I thinking? This were thousands of dollars that I had spent on stuff that sat in my cabinets and closets that could have contributed to my financial freedom much, much sooner. But, you know, that's the trap that commercialism has set for us. So I was on that path for quite a while, changed a couple jobs, kept on earning more, but it wasn't until my next layoff that I think it all really sunk in. And during that layoff, I was actually unemployed for five months. Luckily, I had Four months of severance. So with that buffer, I thought, hey, I'm going to do something useful with this time because when else am I going to get a paid vacation of this length? I went backpacking in Europe for a month. It changed my life. I lived out of a backpack, just a carry on backpack. And I walked everywhere and I took buses and I was super frugal and I realized, whoa, I really have way more junk than I've ever needed. Why do I have all this stuff in my house weighing me down? Why am I working and living this life that I get so much more life and energy from traveling and discovering and being curious and learning? Maybe I should refocus that energy. And it was during that experience, during that layoff that I started cooking up a plan. And I didn't really know what I was cooking up yet, but what I. What it started as, hey, for one, I got to get my life together. I have to get my finances together. I never want to be in a position of financial insecurity again. And I want to work towards a life that truly makes me shine, allows me to shine, and have my truest self come out and follow my heart. And four and a half years later, I. I hit the road.

[Mindy Jensen]

When did you discover the concept of barista fire or the concept of financial independence in general?

[Julie B. Rose]

It was after I got back from that trip, during that layoff period and as I was starting my new job. I had, I had decided that, hey, you know, my financial education is not what it should be. I don't really know what I'm doing. I had been like, oh, yeah, I contributed the company match for a little while and I put it in this and that and, you know, I just kind of did what I was told when I was clicking through buttons, but I really didn't know what I was doing. And I think I had heard, maybe seen little bits about fire or just about financial literacy. And I thought, hey, I should really, I should really learn how hard can this be? You know, if I, if I've conquered and accomplished so much, how hard can this be? And I just led myself down the path, reading the books that people recommended, checking out the blogs, and found the information fairly easy to digest, and also just felt empowered by what was out there, that, hey, I could, I could do this. At the time, I did decide to enlist a financial advisor who I eventually cut ties with, but it helped maybe me get off the ground just a little and started doing things on my own as well. And it became addictive because, you see the compounding and accumulation effect. And I'm like, whoa, this is really working. It truly, it becomes addictive because then you're like, how much more money can I pump in and how much more can come up and how fast can I grow? And so it was really a combination of I'm trying different things with investing and then I'm side hustling because I just want that to grow as soon as possible. So as soon as I got back from Europe after, after that backpacking trip and got my next job, which like jobs typically are when you change them so often is each, each one pays you more, I decided I'm going to cut my spending, I'm going to increase my, I've increased my earnings, so I'm going to increase my investing and then I'm going to see where I can fill in with different side hustles and things just exploded for me.

[Mindy Jensen]

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[Mindy Jensen]

So what kind of side hustles were you were you finding to add to this, this nesting that you were you were doing?

[Julie B. Rose]

My main side hustle. This one has got a whole dramatic story of its own. I've talked about it on my blog too. I talk about all my love, all my, my love and relationships and romances on, on my blog as well. I ended up meeting someone overseas at, on that European trip that I thought I was going to move to Europe for. And so I'll try to make this short because it's, that's a long emotional story. But I ended up putting my house on the rental market. My entire house, which is three bedroom, two bath, two car, garage, yard, the whole shebang. Because if I didn't have a job, if I was moving to Europe, I had to have some income because you know, who knows if I could even work over there without an appropriate visa, which takes time to get. So I put my house on the market. Talking to this guy, we're like, are you sure? Are you sure? Like are we really doing this? Da da da. He's like, yes, yes. No risk, no reward. I put my house on the market, I get on the rental market, I get a four month booking and then he dumps me. So I'm like, I've got nowhere to live and you know, got another job. And like that job was based in Phoenix even if it was remote most of the time I'm like, I need to find a place to Live. So my side hustle, if you can call it that, was moving into a studio casita, like somebody's backyard house in Phoenix, spending like $800 a month while I rented out my, my big house in Phoenix during the Phoenix tourism season from like Christmas to Easter. That was that as you, as you can imagine, paid good dividends. I also was like bartending at the Phoenix Open, which is the big golf tournament. Made tons of money at that. I went through my stuff and was consigning things. I mean, I have to look back at every. It was like whatever little opportunity I had, I think I was walking dogs maybe for a little while. Whatever went at the time, I was like, let's do it.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah. And I love that story because so many people that I talk to, they discover financial independence and they're like, I'm gonna cut out everything. And then like, oh, that isn't so much fun. I'm gonna add some stuff back in. But there's also this, like, this hustle culture and the, these side hustles that you're doing. I'm assuming you took that money and threw it at your investments and not into shopping some more. It seems like you were shedding, actively shedding as much as you could to. In order to get to financial independence as soon as possible. Yeah.

[Julie B. Rose]

And you know what else that taught me? The, like moving out of my house for four months. I was hearing from people, you know, when the house is like the American dream. It's what you work so long, you're like, I bought a house. It's the mark of success for any like 30 something year old. Actually, I was in my 20s when I bought it, but, you know, it's.

[Mindy Jensen]

Like, yeah, I did it.

[Julie B. Rose]

I like, look at me, I did good. I moved out of my house and my friends were like, oh my God, there's people sleeping in your bed. And like, yeah, but I changed the sheets. There's people using your brand new kitchen that you just remodeled. I'm not gonna take it with me. You know, like fostered this sense of detachment, which I think is really like the number one thing for minimalists, for nomads, for early retirees, for anybody who wants to live a more mobile life. They have to have this sense of detachment from their material things, from their former identity, from basically what life is supposed to be, and come up with their own version of that. So having the detachment allowed me to come back into my house and really see it kind of for the, for the flat, two dimensional thing that it is, is Yeah, I have a great kitchen. I'm not going to take it with me. Oh, oops, it's scratched. You know, like, it'll still sell. I'm not worried about that. I'm not going to live here forever. I'm not going to take this to my grave. And that in itself was, like, more, probably more valuable than the money that I made, even though I did throw it at my. At my investments, and it did quite well for me.

[Mindy Jensen]

So what year are we talking about here?

[Julie B. Rose]

Okay, so this would have been 2018 to, like, 20. 2020, the 2018 tourist season, the 2019 tourist season, and the 2020 tourist season. So, yes, you're right. That brings us to Covid.

[Mindy Jensen]

That brings us to Covid. Well, before we get into Covid, I want to talk about your investing. You're ramping up your investing. Where are you putting your money? What are you investing in?

[Julie B. Rose]

I was playing around a little bit, I think. Of course, I was reading all the advice, like Total Stock Market, you know, the, like the VTI and FX CACs, and, you know, all the. All the ones that are, like, very broad. And I put a lot of money in those. And I think I was like, oh, let me try a little Vanguard and a little Fidelity and a little. I was just sort of like, let's just see. And then I thought, oh, maybe some Costco, maybe some, like, Microsoft just for funsies, some Netflix and so on. And some of most of it did great and. And some of it not so great, but it was like, I kind of. I kind of felt like it was good practice for me. I've since cleaned a lot of that up in the. In the years following. But I had, you know, I had my retirement vehicles, my 401k and my Roth IRA. And then I also had my brokerage. So I made sure to max out my Roth to the level each year, my 401k to the federal level, allowable capturing the company match, which was, I think, up to 3% at the time. So I hit those limits each year for, I think, three or four years running during this time period. And then everything else I put into brokerage, and that was where I sort of tried to divvy up where I wanted to put it.

[Mindy Jensen]

That's a nice mix. So on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, we talk. We've been talking about the middle class trap, where you've done everything right. You have put your money into your home Equity or your 401k, but then you become a millionaire on paper and you're like, oh, how do I access this? Rates have gone up, so I can't just pull equity out of my house, and I can't access my 401k without paying penalties. So you've got several hedges against that. First of all, I assuming that you sold this house. It sounded like this was not. This is not currently a home that you own.

[Julie B. Rose]

I sold the house.

[Mindy Jensen]

That's one way to access the equity.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, exactly. I sold the house in 2020, in the middle of 2020, after I decided, or while I decided to go nomadic and I got my asking price. I know real estate has. Has really grown and exploded since COVID but I made the best decision at the time. And I also didn't want the burden of. Of, you know, some kind of responsibility that I had to keep. I had enough. I had enough issues when I was just renting it out to these vacationers who are like, how do I flush the toilet? You know, So I didn't really want to deal with that.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, yeah. And. And that's valid. Yeah, that. I bet. I've had rentals too. And. Yes. You're like, really? It's. Have you never seen a toilet before? It's the. It's the silver handle on the side. You just. Just push down. Yeah. Yes. No, I have. I completely get it. And in 2020, I. So I'm a real estate agent, and I remember the beginning of COVID where you couldn't go even see a house unless it was under contract. So people were writing these, like, really quick contracts just to be able to get inside to see it and then canceling it if they didn't like it. It was. It was a crazy market. So selling in the middle of 2020, Covid, this weird thing that's. That hasn't happened in 100 years. Totally valid choice. You didn't want to own this property, so sell it. That's. That's what you do when you don't want to own a property anymore. Yeah. But you've also got your Roth ira, you've got your after tax brokerage account. So you have many different buckets to pull from until you can access your 401k. Are you doing any of the. What I consider to be advanced maneuvers like Roth conversions now that your income is presumably lower?

[Julie B. Rose]

I did that my first year after quitting my job. So I kind of classify those years. The first, almost year and a half, I was like, almost pretty much fully on sabbatical, not pulling any. Any income from work. Not really. Nothing substantial. And that was when I took the opportunity to do one of those conversions and made, you know, investment income at the same time. I did that in my first year. I don't. I have not done that since. But it's something that I think about and we'll look at when the time comes.

[Mindy Jensen]

What does barista fire mean to you specifically?

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, I use the term sort of barista fire and semi retirement interchangeably because I think they mean sort of the same thing. Because the concept of barista Fire is that you are sort of financially set to a standard of living that you could live by. I just choose to expand my standard of living just a little bit. And so I supplement that with income coming in that is kind of a like push, pull, like almost levers that I can, I can tweak as I need to. If I want to work a little bit more, I can always take on more clients. If I want to have more free time, I can say no to clients. And at this point, I'm pulling a little bit from my brokerage just to sort of like maybe pay off a monthly credit card when my income doesn't match. Because my income is very flexible right now. But otherwise I'm almost, I'm almost probably 80% just spending my earnings at this point.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, and are you still working in social media?

[Julie B. Rose]

No. No. So. Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm not working for anyone. Anyone else? Not really. I am an independent contractor with a travel agency. Back when I took that one month travel backpacking trip to Europe, I started a blog. I wanted to create the content that I couldn't find when I went out there. And I was a very kind of juvenile elementary traveler at that point. So some of the, some of the information that I needed I couldn't find and I wanted to produce it for other people. That blog has sort of just become my little creative baby. And now I'm. I have, you know, quite a substantial readership and views per year. So when I started getting messages, especially as I started talking about my sabbatical and my nomadic lifestyle, I was getting messages of people seeing my travels. And they're like, I want to travel with you, or I want to work with you, or I want to replicate your trip. How did you do that? And so I basically thought, well, wait a second, you know, there's an opportunity to monetize my experience and my expertise. So what does that look like? Who do I partner with? I had some contacts from back in Phoenix when I was there, and different kind of travel events I had attended as More of a travel blogger. I looked up those contacts and found sort of a synergy in terms of, hey, I can hold group trips, I can design trips for clients, I can do travel coaching and that can supplement my lifestyle and also give me some credibility and backing beyond, you know, the travel blog and the numbers that I pull in. It gives me the backing of sort of a travel agency with a lot of revenue and a lot of travel sales. So it's really been a win win and allows me tons of flexibility in what I do and where I do it. So that probably was about two years ago when I partnered with a travel agency and I've been, I've been working with them on a part time basis ever since.

[Mindy Jensen]

What does part time mean? Like how many hours per week or per month are you working?

[Julie B. Rose]

You're asking me all the hard questions. It's so hard because I can't calculate it. I kind of look at the writing that I do on my blog, I look at my social media, the content creation that obviously like helps bring in clients, helps showcase sort of my travel expertise. It's not something that I really calculate because that's just what I would be doing. Like I would be storytelling, I would be sharing, I would be expressing myself. These are things that I would do without probably the financial impact. And I did do that for a long time. Actually. I didn't make any money on my blog or social media. I was just wanting to share and be helpful and inform people. So I don't know, it's hard, it's really hard to calculate. But I don't work. I don't work full time, I can say that. But sure, there are some itineraries that take a little bit more effort and energy than others. And it's also hard to say what's work when you're like traveling and having the time of your life. And sure you're like looking after people at the same time, but I don't know. I don't know how to. I know work obviously is the exchange of labor for money, but at the same time I don't know if I can really. I don't know how to calculate. I'm sorry, no.

[Mindy Jensen]

Well, okay. I think this is a really great way to answer this because yes, you're blogging, but you would be blogging anyway. So is that work? Probably not. Even though it does generate some income. How about, how about this? Can you do anything you want or do you ever have to say, no, I can't do that because I have to do Work type stuff.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, I mean, both. I can choose. Like, I'm not gonna do this trip. The. But administering a trip requires work that I have to do. So if I choose I'm gonna do a trip, then yes, there's the administration and the marketing that goes along with that. If a client comes to me and they're like, I want to do this and I don't want to do it, I can give it to another advisor. And so I can say no. I'm not like obligated or indebted to do anything. And definitely not. I'm not like beholden to a lifestyle that I can't say no. That I, that I have. I'm like, I'm never really, like, I need to make money this month, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna do A, B and C. It more comes from like a desire of. Yeah, like I'm passionate about this city. I'm gonna be in the same place. I really like this client. They seem really cool and. And it's more born of me wanting to like, empower and help people really, like, put together the trip that they wanna. That is gonna, you know, change their life. And I think it comes from that. Which is a different way to. To look at it.

[Mindy Jensen]

What I'm hearing is no. I can essentially pick and choose what I want to spend my time doing. I don't have to ever say I have to do this trip, otherwise I won't be able to put food on the table. I have to do this trip, otherwise I'll have to pull out of my retirement accounts. I can just choose to do this trip because I want to do this trip with the caveat that if I'm doing this trip, then I can't do another trip at the same time. Obviously you can't be a doom places at once, but it seems like you get to pick and choose how you spend your days and weeks.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah. I call it. I call it financial independence, recreational employment.

[Mindy Jensen]

There you go. That's great. That's perfect. Okay. We've renamed FIRE or re. Re acronym to fire. Financial independence, recreational employment. And you like what you do. It's. It's clear that you like what you do.

[Julie B. Rose]

I do. I do. And the. At the same time I have a threshold that I'm going to get to or that I'm at is I'm gonna do this much per year, but then I am gonna preserve my free time, my leisure time, my learning time.

[Mindy Jensen]

That's not your choice. And you have done the things that other people might not do to ensure that you can have the life that you want, which is to travel, to host events for other people if you choose to, and to go out on your own if you don't. I think that's perfectly valid. You spoke earlier about your current expenses are about 80% covered by your income. What are your current expenses? What do you, what are you spending every year? Yeah.

[Julie B. Rose]

So I've been tracking this in detail on my blog basically ever since I went nomadic. I think the first year after I quit my job, I spent about 27,000 traveling the world basically. The following year, I think I spent maybe around 34, 35,000. And then last year I spent 40,000. So compare that to what you might spend in the US Living a normal life. I know that back in the day, I say back in the day because who knows what it would cost at in today's dollars, but I think in 20, 20, 19 or 2020, and this was when I was like fairly watching my spending. You know, I was, I was doing, I was pretty careful in what I was spending and I think I spent, was spending like 50, 55,000 or something like that. So anybody who says, oh, I can't afford to travel. No, you can't afford to live in the US it is especially now, especially now. It's crazy. So I can, I can get by in other countries on far less. And what am I spending my money on? I mean, most of it's travel. I mean flights and accommodations. Then it's food. I spend a lot of money on food. And by the way, I'm still enjoying myself. I'm still drinking beer and wine and I'm still having like nice meals and I'm eating out. I'm having a coffee not from Starbucks, but from some local coffee shop wherever I am. So I'm not skimping by any means. I'm just being conscientious and thoughtful about how I spend my money because opportunity costs. If you spend your money on that, then you don't get to spend it on this and vice versa. But by and large, I'm really not skimping in any way. It just works out that I can get by on much less. So the, the cost of living is less, but the standard of living is not.

[Mindy Jensen]

That is such a great quote. We have to take one final ad break, but we'll be back with more right after this.

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[Julie B. Rose]

Decided to quit my job and I've also put this on my website too. I just don't remember all the numbers but I have kind of tracked this over the years and you know, it's like a bell curve so when I hit that 100, then the 200, then the. You know, it's like this. It's like this, The. The accumulation effect. So when I. When I quit, I believe I had just cleared about half a million. And, you know, that was like, the big milestone. So this was in 2020. And of course, let's see, it's March now, so there have been some recent market fluctuations. I think I'm at, like, 5:15 now. So lost. Well, not. It's not lost until you cash it out. But the value has decreased in the last couple months. But that's not a thing I'm worried about. I'm kind of like a hit it, it hit it and quit it kind of mindset. So I. I'll look at it every couple months. I'm not really affected or fussed by it, because what goes down will come up.

[Mindy Jensen]

I agree. I just spoke with J.L. collins from the. The author of the Simple Path to Wealth just a couple of hours ago, and he said that, quote, the stock market always goes up. Yeah, it's a rocky up, but it continues to go up. And I'm not concerned. And he said he wasn't concerned. I'm also not concerned. The market fluctuates sometimes, and that's just how it goes. So anybody who is listening to this show is probably hearing you say 500,000 and thinking, oh, my goodness, how could she retire? Well, she still is able to generate some income that she likes to do. She's nomadic. She's out there living the life she wants to live while her investments continue to grow, and she's not really pulling from her investments. And I think that you have done a phenomenal job of living what Fi is supposed to be all about. You are financially independent. You get money out of the way so you can live your best life. Well, you've gotten money out of the way, and now you're living your best life. Did you have a better life at $50,000 in America or $40,000 overseas?

[Julie B. Rose]

It's pretty. It's. I mean, I'm in the Philippines right now, and I just spent the last three weeks in New Zealand, and before that I was in Australia, and before that, I was in Africa for seven weeks. So you tell me. It's been pretty. It's been pretty awesome, so no complaints. I mean, at the same time, there's challenges and different obstacles you run into, but you rather. You're gonna have obstacles in life no matter where you are. Wouldn't you rather enjoy encountering them in a Place or places that give you just more life and just the zest, you know, like we're here on this planet to become our best selves and we should be in the environments that do that.

[Mindy Jensen]

I am sitting here in Longmont, Colorado. I live here, I work full time. And you just listed four places that you've been in the last, what, three or four months that I've never been into in my whole life. So who's living the better life here? Listeners.

[Julie B. Rose]

Come on a trip, I think, Julie, come on a trip.

[Mindy Jensen]

I've got a good life. I've got. But yeah, but I mean, that sounds like a lot of fun.

[Julie B. Rose]

Well, hey, not everybody, not everybody is at the point that or even wants to necessarily like throw it all away or give it all up. And that's one of the reasons why I've been hosting these mini sabbatical group trips is to give people a taste of what, what travel can do while they're still working out the rest of the details. So it whets your appetite without being the full time commitment that I took, which, I mean, to be honest is not necessarily for everybody. We can't all leave the workforce at the same time because then who's gonna do the work?

[Mindy Jensen]

Exactly. And, and to be honest, traveling full time isn't on my bucket list. There are places I would like to go, but I also like my house. So I want to go and then I want to come back and then I want to go and then I want to come back and. But I, I want to go to New Zealand, I want to go to Australia since they're really close to each other and so far away from me. That's going to be like an all encompassing trip for that one, of course, which would be a much longer trip. But yeah, there's lots of places I want to stay. See, I just also want to enjoy my, my downtime. So traveling nomadically is probably not in my cards, but I will definitely be out and seeing more of the world than I have.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, well, you know who to talk to when you're ready to plan that.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes, I do. What do you do for healthcare out in the other parts of the world?

[Julie B. Rose]

This has been a little bit of trial and error over the years, but where I've settled is a couple, like a trifecta, I guess, coverage. So first I'm on an ACA plan which cost me next to nothing since I'm, I'm low income. By, by definition what I'm bringing in is, is not very much. So I barely pay anything for it. And that will really just cover me for when I come back to the US which is one month to six weeks per year, so I can get some of my doctor's appointments in and any prescriptions that I might need. Then I have travel medical insurance, which fills the gaps. If something happens to me while I'm somewhere else and I want to file a claim for reimbursement, or if it needs to like heaven forbid, get me back to the US emergency evacuation or something like that, then at least I have something happening in the US to take care of me. And then finally I'll pay out of pocket. Because I know this is such a, this is such a foreign concept to a lot of Americans because we have it in our heads that, oh my God, healthcare is so, so expensive. But you go almost to any other country in the world and it's much more affordable. Anything is much more affordable. So I've got prescriptions. A lot of times you don't even need, you don't even need prescription for medication. You can just go in and buy it or if you want to make an appointment, you can pay out of pocket, which I think, you know, some of the medical costs in Mexico, it's such a fraction of what you would pay in the US Then you can get in right away. You talk to an English speaking doctor who, which was probably, who was probably educated in the US you actually get to sit down with that person and talk to them for as long as you want instead of being ushered out in five seconds. I know a ton of people who have had medical care in Mexico and have had great experiences and they're paying a tenth of what it would cost if they were to pay out of pocket. And they can get in fast. So Mexico is just one example. But there's great health care in many other places in the world. So think about what you're paying in the US every month or what a lot of retirees are afraid about, afraid of paying and then just put, put that in your pocket. And in the off chance something happens to you while you're in some other foreign country, pay out of pocket and you'll be surprised at how little it is. Probably.

[Mindy Jensen]

It's definitely more affordable in other countries. I know some, some travel insurance requires you to be outside of the United States for more than six months out of the year in order for it to take effect. And the reason that they do this is because it's so much less expensive.

[Julie B. Rose]

Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's tricky. There's a lot of different health care plans. This is what works for me because I'm still, I guess, relatively young and healthy. There are obviously people with other conditions and circumstances. So you'll have to, you'll have to research what's best for you. But I think the general, the general feeling from a lot of Americans is I just can't do it because of health care, you know, and if you spend a little bit of time exploring what else is out there, people might be surprised. I just, you know, want to say that absolutely.

[Mindy Jensen]

I was always, I was very surprised when I heard from a nomadic friend about how she handles her health care. I was like, wow, that's less than I pay and probably for much better coverage.

[Julie B. Rose]

I pay like 40 bucks a month putting everything together.

[Mindy Jensen]

So wow, okay, $40 a month, that's you know, definitely less than what I pay. Julie, do you have a Phi number that you are working towards?

[Julie B. Rose]

I think I'm balancing a little bit of the, like live in the moment and you can't control what happens to you in the future. We can't predict what happens to you in the future. Don't waste your time worrying about it. I'll deal with it when the time comes. And this is working for me right now. In 10 years I'll revisit how my numbers look and maybe come to another decision. But, but we spend so much time like just swirling up these worst case scenarios that that's such a waste of mental energy. That's such a waste of like where we could spend our time and our brain power. I mean it's a balance, right? Because some people don't think about anything and they're just like woohoo. Like I'll do what I want. But I've been in that situation where I just really, I really just like devolved on different scenarios in my mind and now I just am like much freer and happier if I'm like, I'm living in the moment, I'm letting things unfold, I'm being smart, sure, I'm making good decisions, I'm being thoughtful, but I'm not gonna like nitpick everything.

[Mindy Jensen]

I think that you don't need to be pursuing a Phi number because you're already living the life that you want and you enjoy the work that you do. I really, really appreciate your time today. This was so much fun. Where can people find you online?

[Julie B. Rose]

So everybody can find me on my website first and foremost, which is juliedavivre.com that is the French way of spelling and It's a little play on words from the joie de vivre. So it's J-U-L I E D E V I V R E.com and then on Instagram it's uliebrose. And with those two put together, you'll find you know any which way to contact me or look up, look at my group trips or look at my ebook or whatever else you're interested in and would also like love to hear people's comments on this podcast. If you have any feedback for me, I'm all ears.

[Mindy Jensen]

I would love to hear that too. So you can email mindyggerpockets.com and I will forward it on to Julie or you can reach out to Julie at those places. I love your blog, Julie. I saw I first found you when you did an article like the the things I would tell my younger self, I can't remember the exact name of was such a great article. Like, basically just don't do dumb stuff.

[Julie B. Rose]

That's my journalism background coming in.

[Mindy Jensen]

It was a really, really great article and that sparked me down a rabbit hole to read all of your content. Even though nomadic life isn't my goal, it was still really fun to travel through you.

[Julie B. Rose]

Oh, well, thank you. I really appreciate that. I love getting that feedback because I put a lot of like blood, sweat and tears into being vulnerable and sharing some of this stuff and it goes against my, my nature a little bit. I've been a little bit of a, you know, privacy. Right. But I always appreciate hearing like, oh, this inspired me. This changed me. This, I related to this. So thank you for that.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, you have an authentic voice. You're not, you know when you're reading an article and you're like, oh, they were paid to write this. They, you know, all they're doing is advertising and advertising and I really like the voice that you. This is my real life self and that is kind of hard to find online. So I really, really do love your blog and thank you so much for joining me today. I really had a good time chatting with you.

[Julie B. Rose]

Thank you for having me. I did too. What a fun conversation. Can we do this again? I could just keep going.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes, of course. All right. Okay. Thank you, Julie and we'll talk to you soon.

[Julie B. Rose]

Thanks. Bye.

[Mindy Jensen]

That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. She is Julie Devivre or Julie B. Rose. I am Mindy Jensen. Saying farewell Seashell.