Coast FI by 30 in a HCOL City (Here’s How He’s Doing it)

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Coast FI by 30 in a HCOL City (Here’s How He’s Doing it)
Date: April 21, 2026
Hosts: Mindy Jensen & Scott Trench
Guest: Eli
Focus: How to reach Coast FI in New York City by age 30, intermediate to advanced FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) strategies in a high cost of living (HCOL) city.

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Mindy and Scott dispel the myth that pursuing FIRE is nearly impossible in high cost of living cities like New York. Eli, a 24-year-old accountant on track to reach Coast FI by 30 in NYC, shares his unique strategies. He discusses the trade-offs, hacks, and mindset shifts required to thrive financially in the Big Apple, arguing that the city’s opportunities and built-in benefits can actually accelerate the FI journey.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging the “Impossible in NYC” FIRE Narrative

• Scott previously suggested that FIRE is less practical in NYC.
• Eli flips the narrative, arguing that while NYC is notoriously expensive, it also provides unique opportunities for both high earnings and smart expense management.
  • ”New York City is the worst place to fire, on the surface, but fire is about looking beneath the surface and figuring out what actually makes things work.” (Eli, 04:39)
• The episode spotlights Coast FI stories in NYC to demonstrate different paths.

---

2. Earning Power & Expense Management

• Eli’s Income Trajectory:
  • Started at $82K salary after college; quickly raised to $91K.
  • Expects significant future earning potential in an NYC accounting career.
  • “My expenses are below 40,000...I do like to spend money on Broadway, that’s my guilty pleasure.” (Eli, 04:39)
• Expense Breakdown:
  • Rent: $2,210/month
  • Transit: $134/month (no car ownership required)
  • Groceries: ~ $350/month
  • Eating out: $200/month
  • Miscellaneous/shopping buffer: $250/month (rarely fully used)
  • Key Point: NYC “built-in” benefits (e.g., public transit, walkability, employer perks) offset many high costs.
  • “Once you have rent, it’s almost like unlocking the best credit card bonuses ever...I don’t have to pay for a car, insurance, or maintenance.” (Eli, 06:08)

---

3. Maximizing NYC Opportunities: Hacking the High Cost

• Free & Discount Experiences:
  • Extensive use of apps for free Broadway show tickets, volunteering for work dinners at high-end restaurants.
  • “With enough time, you can find almost anything you want in New York for free.” (Eli, 08:21)
  • Networking to gain perks: e.g., picking up coffee for the team, accumulating Starbucks credits.
  • “I have not paid for Starbucks over the past year because I’m the person who gets coffee for my team and basically get thousands of Starbucks stars.” (Eli, 08:21)
• Employer Subsidies:
  • Employer provides meal per diems and covers much weekday food and coffee, especially during “busy season” in accounting.
  • “They are giving a per diem amount for coffee for restaurants...that definitely does make the food budget significantly less.” (Eli, 09:55)
• Furniture & Fashion Hacks:
  • NYC’s clearance racks and curbside finds (e.g., from building chats, Facebook marketplace).
  • “The clearance section has something that might be $500 outside of New York for $9...NYC is a showroom with out-of-box opportunities.” (Eli, 27:22)

---

4. Work-Life Balance, Social Dynamics, and Career Trajectory

• Demanding Career:
  • Off-peak: 8am–7pm workdays.
  • Peak season: sometimes as late as 2am, weekend work.
  • “There are 2am nights there, weekends sometimes...but there are also times when you’re working two days a week.” (Eli, 10:25)
  • Sees this grind as a “paid PhD in accounting.”
• Flexibility & Social Life:
  • Uses the city’s density and diversity for both career advancement and rich social experiences.
  • Has started a peer community, “Sparks,” for young people pursuing FIRE and facing life’s uncertainties.
  • “I know that my life is going to dramatically change over the next five years. So how can I possibly plan?” (Eli, 13:01)

---

5. Future Planning: Coast FI, Geographic Arbitrage, and Philosophy

• Jumping Off Point:
  • Sees NYC as an “arbitrage opportunity”—earn and learn while young, potentially relocate later (e.g., to affordable communities in Georgia).
  • “I view this as a chapter...The amount of money that I’ve accumulated is not necessarily meant for me personally to continue to live life in New York City...I could buy a house in Georgia in one year.” (Eli, 13:01)
• Rising Salary vs. Static Rent:
  • Suggests NYC rent controls mean expenses may rise more slowly than income.
  • “Rent increases significantly less compared to salaries...I can see myself potentially living in New York City.” (Eli, 21:48)
• Evolving FIRE:
  • Views FIRE as moving from “math” focus to mental health, now to philosophy: “What is the purpose of life? What are we trying to optimize for?”
  • “I’m almost trying to think of the next stage is philosophy...” (Eli, 21:48)

---

6. Tips for Lowering Expenses and Thriving in NYC

• Maximize employer perks and city amenities to cut costs.
• Use time and flexibility to access free or discounted activities (Broadway, food, etc.).
• Treat income as savings/future fund; earn extra for “wants” via bonuses, side gigs, and credits.
• Leverage networking: more jobs, more mentors, and more friends—NYC is a “relationship-driven” job market.
  • “In NYC, as long as you’re not in your apartment, you might find a recruiter...There’s a tacit acknowledgement that everyone’s trying to do better.” (Eli, 33:44)
• Furniture/clothing: use social networks, building swaps, and curb finds.
• “I look at NYC as a showroom and whenever there’s a showroom, there’s an out-of-box opportunity.” (Eli, 27:22)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the FIRE mindset in NYC:
  “Fire is already extreme...If you’re pursuing fire in New York City, it can be that times 10, because you can have opportunities you might not have elsewhere.” (Eli, 36:57)
• On future plans:
  “I don’t necessarily plan on living in NYC my entire life. I view this as a chapter...” (Eli, 13:01)
• On the work grind:
  “I kind of view right now as a learning experience and almost getting my PhD in accounting and getting paid to do it.” (Eli, 13:01)
• On free Broadway:
  “I saw Angelique at front row center for free because I just looked on an app. I saw a free ticket.” (Eli, 08:21)
• On cost arbitrage:
  “If I were living in the suburbs, I would have more expenses, more things to worry about...My commute is 10, 20 minutes.” (Eli, 17:22)
• On job security:
  “There are so many public places. I got some of my jobs through Equinox, right? I was just talking to people in the steam room…” (Eli, 29:36)
• On NYC’s social and professional networking:
  “As long as you’re not in your apartment, you might find a recruiter, you might find someone who knows someone.” (Eli, 33:44)
• On FIRE philosophy:
  “I used to joke as a kid...I wanted to be a retired philanthropist... That dream is still alive and well.” (Eli, 17:22)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:02: Eli’s intro and challenge to the “can’t FIRE in NYC” narrative
• 04:39–06:08: Deep dive into Eli’s personal budget and expense management
• 08:21: Hacks for free/discounted NYC experiences, leveraging work perks
• 09:55: Impact of employer-subsidized food on budget
• 10:22: Eli’s work schedule—off-peak and busy season realities
• 13:01: Discussion of career trajectory, future plans, and viewing NYC as a chapter
• 17:22: Rethinking FIRE with explosive earning potential and city arbitrage
• 21:48: Rent vs. salary growth, life planning, and FIRE philosophy
• 24:52: Concrete hacks for lowering Broadway, restaurant, and entertainment costs
• 27:22: Furniture, clothing, and “alley will provide” strategy
• 29:36: Navigating job loss and job-finding in NYC
• 33:44: How to network with recruiters and career tips
• 36:31: Eli’s summary on achieving FIRE in NYC and the unique opportunities it presents

---

Takeaways

• FIRE in NYC is possible with focus, creativity, and an opportunistic mindset.
• Employer and city benefits can offset high apparent costs—especially for young professionals.
• The flexibility and density of NYC provide abundant opportunities for networking, free experiences, and rapid career growth.
• Eli approaches FIRE as both a financial and philosophical journey, using his NYC chapter as a launchpad for options later in life.

---

For more resources and similar stories, visit BiggerPocketsMoney.com.

Transcript

[Scott Trench]

Mindy and I are so grateful for the following sponsors who make BiggerPockets money possible.

[Mindy Jensen]

Your business identity is everything that makes your business legitimate and professional, from public records and compliance to your website, email and phone number. With Northwest Registered Agent, you don't just form a business, you start a complete foundation built for privacy, credibility and growth. When you form your business with Northwest, you get a complete business identity, not a stack of vendors to deal with and that includes a registered agent service, a business address, operating agreement, domain website, professional email, phone number and built in privacy. Northwest doesn't outsource or resell services. Everything is built and managed in house, which means fewer hands on your data and privacy by default for every customer. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest. For free, visit northwestregisteredagent.com money free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered [e-mail] DIYing your financial strategy can actually become a liability I recently sat down with David Jackson at Domain Money to pressure test my own plan. What I loved was the objectivity and how comprehensive it was. Domain is strictly flat fee. They don't sell products so the advice is unbiased and personalized to your situation. They integrated everything from my cash flow to my real estate strategy into one clear, actionable roadmap. If you're ready to graduate from guessing to knowing, go to biggerpocketsmoney.com CFP book a free Strategy strategy session and see what a real pro like David can do for you. This is a promotion for Domain Money, a registered investment advisor with the sec.

[Scott Trench]

Bigger Pockets Money may receive compensation if

[Mindy Jensen]

you choose to work with Domain Money as a client. I, Scott Trench, am a current client of Domain Money and receive non cash compensation related to this promotional activity. This is not personalized investment advice. For the full disclosures, visit biggerpocketsmoney.com CFP.

[Brandon]

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other jobs sites. Indeed's sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking and it works. Sponsored jobs on indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results in the minute, I'VE been talking to you. 23 people just got hired through Indeed Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job cred to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com BiggerPockets just go to Indeed.com BiggerPockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com biggerpockets terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. We have a special week on the podcast. Last year we had Paul Olinger on the podcast and he lives in New York City. Scott called out that achieving financial independence in a high cost of living area like New York City is nearly impossible. And the New York City community said, excuse me, Scott, no it's not. Our audience is filled with smart people and they know how to make the most of an expensive city. This week, Scott and I are going to highlight four, four people's different stories working towards or achieving financial independence in the Big Apple. Today we're talking with Eli. Eli is just 24 years old and already on track to hit coast five by age 30, and he's doing it while living in New York City. Eli argues that living in the city is actually accelerating his path thanks to unique opportunities and big city hacks you won't find in a smaller town. Eli breaks down his personal numbers and story in today's episode.

[Scott Trench]

Eli, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to BiggerPockets Money.

[Eli]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. A long time listener, big time follower, was just listening to your book right before the recording started.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, fantastic.

[Scott Trench]

Well, thank you so much again for, for all the support and for joining us. And I think, you know, just as we discussed, I put out a challenge out there where I said, hey, I think that fire is probably less appealing, less popular, maybe less practical to pursue for folks living in New York City and Manhattan in particular. And a good chunk of people actually reached out to me and you were, you were one of. And so I'd love to hear, you know, a quick reaction to that. And then of course, let's get into your story.

[Eli]

I have definitely been described as somewhat contrarian and I think that that really aligns nicely with fire because on the surface, absolutely, you are correct. New York City is the worst place to fire or pursue financial independence or really have much of anything. But I think that fire is all about looking kind of beneath the surface and figuring out what actually makes things work, what actually makes things tick. And I calculated it that I would have a higher salary and that I can control my expenses. And that right out of college, I know that the most important thing is to pay off that student debt if it's above, you know, 6 to 8% interest, depending on who you hold, like, as well as securing a high starting salary, because that is one of the single biggest determinants, at least in the traditional world, of whether your lifetime earnings, what that will look like. So for me, it was very important to secure, I would say, on the high end, and then control what I can control. And thanks to Fire, I feel like I've had a really solid control in that I have raised my earnings from 82,000 when I first started at my company to 91,000 within about six months. And my expenses are below 40,000, I would say, over a year. And I would say that's specifically, you know, the basics. I do like to spend money on Broadway, so that is my the guilty pleasure.

[Scott Trench]

Can you give us a breakdown of what your expenses look like on this income? Because I think that the challenge is not hard for people to understand. Hey, there's a lot of really good income earning opportunities in New York City. But it's that keeping your expenses low means deprivation, or is it impossible when you're living in Manhattan or New York City?

[Eli]

You're completely right. I would say the number one expense that people typically are concerned about is usually rent. And I would say you can't necessarily house hack in the same way. It's much more difficult. I would say buy a property in New York City than it might be elsewhere. And there's a huge, I would say, burden when it comes to regulation. But once you have rent, it's almost like unlocking the best credit card bonuses ever. So let's say people are usually not willing to pay $700 a month for an Amex Platinum. But those who do recognize that there might be an extraordinary amount of benefits that are unlocked. To me, that's the same thing with rent. So my rent payment is $2,210, and that allows me to not have to pay for a car, doesn't have to pay for. I don't have to pay for insurance. I don't have to pay for maintenance. I would say my travel is locked in at $134 a month. Groceries is something that in New York City is relatively more expensive. But I have been, I would say, living large in Addition to, I would say, keeping more stricter dietary regulations. So let's say groceries, I've been able to keep at 350 as a max many months. I don't even get to that point. I would say eating out 200. I would say shopping and miscellaneous, I just kind of have as an extra 250 buffer. I usually don't hit that. And I would say that your basics in New York City are controllable. If you are not ubering everywhere, if you are living with roommates, if you are focused on what you can control, you absolutely can control your base level of expenses. It's the luxuries that people feel that they're in New York City, they should. I would say that's really what knocks people's financial budget off course. Because if you're shopping at Trader Joe's or the local bodega, it's really not that expensive compared to living upstate. I grew up upstate. I know that the prices are not that different. It's really about where you go shopping, where you're spending your time.

[Brandon]

Everybody on the path to FI has to control their expenses. So that's not unique to New York. But there's this, like, I mean, Scott and I don't live in New York, and we both feel that New York is super, super expensive. You have listed lot of really low monthly expenses in your budget. Do you feel like you're missing out on anything? Do you feel like, oh, I wish I could just loosen the purse strings a little bit and do this thing? Or do you feel like you're really getting it all because you live in New York and there's so much to do?

[Eli]

So what I found is with enough time, you can find almost anything you want in New York for free. Instead of focusing on, let's say, I'm going to, let's say, change my budget around. I'm going to figure out if I want a massage. I'm going to look at what. What are all the different massage places? What are the promotions that they're offer? If I want to go see a Broadway show, there are apps that show you which Broadway shows you can get pre screenings to that you can actually, I saw Angelique at Front Row center for free because I just looked on an app. I saw a free ticket if I want to go to a fancy restaurant. And this is actually another thing that I really want to talk about, which is in New York City, there's so much people who want to live New York City and corporations, and many of them I would Say really focus on that. And that means that if I want to try a new restaurant, I can actually volunteer for my team and be like, next time we plan a team dinner or something, let's go to a restaurant that I choose. And because, because I'm volunteering, I'm putting myself out there, I'm able to be like, oh, that restaurant that might be $500 a plate. Let's figure out what the corporate discount will do. And basically a little bit taking control in that sense. So figuring out not just what is going to be in my budget, what are the opportunities out there? Like, I have not paid for Starbucks over the past year because I'm the person who gets coffee for my team and I basically get thousands of Starbucks stars. Those are kind of the little things that I have been doing to, I would say, live New York City to the fullest.

[Scott Trench]

Remind us what your day job is.

[Eli]

I do accounting, specifically auditing.

[Brandon]

What a surprise.

[Eli]

I know.

[Scott Trench]

So you do, you do auditing here and I assume this is. You're a highly paid accountant in New York City. Great job, out of college, it sounds like here. And how much food is provided by your employer on an ongoing basis in your situation?

[Eli]

Significant amounts. For example, I'm about to approach busy season. They are giving a per diem amount for coffee for restaurants. So if I want to get takeout and I want to choose a restaurant, I can get up to a certain amount paid for by the company. So that definitely does make the food budget significantly less and able to experience New York City to the fullest.

[Scott Trench]

I figured that was going to be the case, so. And then second, how many hours would you say you're putting in on average and then on and off peak?

[Eli]

I'm assuming you're talking about my job specifically.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes.

[Eli]

So that is a great question because there's billable, non billable. And as an accountant, you know, there's so many other things. And I would say from a your money or your life perspective, I would say it's from about 8am till about 7pm on off peak. And when it comes to peak season, that's about three months. That is potentially as much as, you know, 8am to 2 there. There are 2am nights there, weekend sometimes. So yes, I would say from a typical job perspective, it's Significantly more than 9 to 5. However, there are also going to be times when you're working two days a week, for example, because it's a very seasonal type of job that you're. I'm working on with financial statements. It matters when the financial statements are put out. There were days when, you know, I'm studying for the CPA at my aunt's, you know, house or something like that where I'm like on the rooftop of my building and just enjoying because the job is very much. When you're working, you're working hard, but they're also, you know, paying for food, they're paying for a lot of things. And when they don't need you, like you're not really doing crazy, silly, busy work, which is something I have appreciated.

[Scott Trench]

This makes sense to me. This is in line with what I understand. The life of peers who went into New York City investment banking or big four accounting or those, you know, big law, those types of careers in the New York City. Your life is, is work for, during the week, for the most of it, for, for these, these big chunks. Right. 8am to 7pm is a big day. That's a much longer day than I really ever worked, excluding some periods of time when I was CEO. I never even during my CEO time, never got had to 2am day, maybe one or two in the entire time running a pretty large company at bigger pockets. But that is a reality, I think, for a lot of very high income earner, very high potential folks who get these close to six figure jobs right out of college in New York City. I guess the question I would have there is, I would imagine that one that's very conducive to accumulating money because you're spending all this time at work, you're getting a lot of pay, presumably a bonus, presumably a very large career trajectory and there's no opportunity to spend the money anywhere else. So there's not really a reason to live large in the chunk of time that's remaining. How do you think this will change in four or five years though? Because if you keep on this trajectory, I imagine it's not going to be like you're going to get a 10% raise every year. It's you're going to get a 30 or 50% raise and you're going to be earning multiple six figures by the time you're 30. You're 24 right now, I believe, right? Maybe even more than that. Maybe approaching seven figures, depending on how the trajectory goes by your mid-30s in this, this type of career. And will the perspective begin to change at that point or how do you think that'll evolve for you? Am I getting anywhere close to describing your reality?

[Eli]

You are describing every single young person who' trying to figure that out. Because I actually started a community that I'm calling Sparks. Because we're people who are just getting started into fire and we're kind of dealing with these issues where we're like, we don't know ourselves, we don't have a family, our fixed expenses are not certain. Like right now, I know that my life is going to dramatically change over the next five years. So how can I possibly plan? And I think that that's where I'm really thinking about the next endeavor and where I think of New York City as an arbitrage opportunity. I don't necessarily plan on living in New York City my entire life. I view this as a chapter and that the amount of money that I've accumulated is not necessarily meant to. For me personally to continue to live life in New York City, continuing to live life on hard mode, I view that I can buy a house in, let's say the Georgia Eagle Co Housing community. Houses there are going for about 120,000. So that means if in one year I could buy the house outright, I kind of view it. Another point is I'm working two to three jobs. I'm earning not that much money per job. But I would say I kind of also view right now as a learning experience and Almost getting my PhD in accounting and getting paid to do it. So whereas many of my peers are in a PhD program with a stipend of 40 grand and barely covering expenses, continuing to go into credit card debt, you know, continuing to have student loans, things like that, I view that I'm actually not in my earning years yet. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. And look, the Gen Z has officially pushed out millennials when it comes to everyone writing articles, calling them lazy and everything else.

[Scott Trench]

Whatever you're doing ain't lazy.

[Eli]

Thank you. And I would say another inspiration is, I would say also Hamilton, trying to work like I'm running out of time. And for better or worse, that has left an imprint on me. But I also want to push back a little bit on the assumption that you made, which is this is longest, you know, maybe that you've ever worked. But for me, I used to go to school six days a week and every other Saturday we would remain in school and I would be waking up at about 6am and I would be getting home at about 11pm so for me like that, that was a religious school where, like, we had extraordinarily long hours. And I'll be honest, this almost feels easier in that I'm a lot more in control. I have a lot more things and I'm only working five days a week and the occasional weekend. So for me, that mindset shift I definitely recognize is something that might be more unique to me. But I kind of view what I'm doing as a learning opportunity as opposed to work. And I feel like once you're able to make work, not like that exhausting sounding sigh of what am I doing here? I'm trying to get to that fine number what Like I can't believe rent is due next month and it's figuring out okay I'm going to be seeing my friend and I would say just about keeping busy, socializing as much as possible and really having a clear picture of what life could look like. My yearbook quote was, it is what it is, but is what it could be. And I think that that's what I'm trying to apply to. I would say work and fire. So I'm not really trying to calculate my trajectory currently. I'm trying to calculate when's the optimal jumping off point of this current trajectory.

[Scott Trench]

I think this is super interesting here, right? So it's enviable, right? The strategy is I'm going to work, work crazy hours. Although they're easy for me because I've been doing it since high school, which by the way, I had a similar experience in high school. I just didn't. I'm only considering the time spent at work in that my, my life was definitely, you know, my early to mid 20s, very similar to what you're describing here in terms of early mornings out and about. But some of it was recreation, rugby or, you know, athletic pursuits and those types of things, not just work for me at that point in time. Now that I have a family, that's not something I'm willing to do or would be reasonable at this point. And so the strategy has to be I'm going to earn so much. My earnings power is to explode so much in this profession while I'm in New York that it's going to give me these options whenever I jump ship and move to a different geography here, or that I'll just earn so much that it kind of obviates the need to do all this other stuff. Right? I'm like, it's going to be so much money that I can live a lavish lifestyle or a pretty nice lifestyle and invest through all my accounts and have plenty of money to build leftover and enjoy all the best things that New York City or whatever the area that I choose to live in has to offer. I think the traditional fire advice, the typical fire path is not built for someone with that trajectory right where I'm going to earn a lot and have high expenses in my early 20s, but then it's just going to explode. So it's so high that it really doesn't makes all this other stuff less important. Does that Jade, your approach to fire, or is it really just I'm going to accumulate and jump ship as soon as I possibly can at this point.

[Eli]

So I used to joke that as a kid I wanted that my favorite subject was recess and that my ideal job was I wanted to be a retired philanthropist. Now, I did not know about the fire community back then, but let me tell you, that retired philanthropist dream is still alive and well. And I would say that you're right that many of my peers, I would say reject it in that they're looking why am I going to stop when my ideal income earning years are just down the line? And I think that that's why they're terrified of AI because they need the current circumstances to remain the same. Whereas I look at it as I'm using this opportunity to learn skills from out to the standard. Like Big four is, I would say, a huge training ground for a significant majority of many different professions. Like the income component for me is it's a lot relative to my expenses. The way that I look at it is if I were living in the suburbs, I would have more expenses, more things to worry about, more things to deal with. For example, nine to five in the suburbs includes an hour of commute. Potentially even more for me, like my commute is 10, 20 minutes and like that's something that I like. They have to worry about a car, car insurance, gas, fixing car. I actually just heard from my friend that, you know, she had to pick her up her car from the mechanic and the bill was almost four grand. That's something that I will never have to worry about as long as I'm living in the city. Additionally, when it comes to the explosive income potential, I kind of see that as entrepreneurship. I look at fire as a way to get rich slowly. And that is 20 years, which is still extraordinarily quick. I'm 24, so it doesn't feel quick. Like for me, I feel like my biggest financial mistake is that I did not buy a house in 2008 when I was 7 years old. Truly a struggle. I view it that New York City, I'm able to control my expenses, I'm able to earn relatively more amount of money. My life is relatively simpler and I have the additional component which is I made up an acronym for this, but basically I just think that socialization, commute and quality of life in the city is significantly better compared to trying to fire in the suburbs.

[Mindy Jensen]

Your business identity is everything that makes your business legitimate and professional, from public records and compliance to your website, email and phone number. With Northwest Registered Agent, you don't just form a business. You start with a complete foundation built for privacy, credibility and growth. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you all the free tools you need after you form like operating agreements, meeting minutes and thousands of guides that explains all the ins and outs of running a business. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get More With Northwest Registered Agent at Northwest,

[Brandon]

you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking and it works. Sponsored jobs on indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscription or long term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you. 23 people just got hired through Indeed Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com BiggerPockets just go to Indeed.com BiggerPockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com biggerpockets terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Scott Trench]

It's time to bring on the blooms at the Home Depot with Spring Garden deals. Find savings on hanging baskets and flowers to brighten your backyard or any space that needs instant color. Then get everything you need to plant and protect them with low prices guaranteed on soil and mulch. Dig into Spring garden deals for four days at the Home Depot now through May 10th exclusion supplies. See homedepot.com pricematch for details. So will you fire in New York City or do you think you will move geographically in a Few years somewhere else. Like, what is your best guess? I know that that's up in the air.

[Mindy Jensen]

You're 24.

[Scott Trench]

Life is. Can unfold a million different ways. But what is the kind of, like, tentative plan?

[Eli]

I feel so blessed that I have so many fire role models in New York City. So initially, my plan was very much earn jump ship. And I'm looking at these mentors of mine who are living in New York City. They're firing, and they're able to take the fastest city in the world, right? The one that never sleeps and, like, take naps, relax, enjoy. Right in the middle of the day when everyone's at work, they're enjoying all the opportunities that New York City has to offer. You know, instead of waiting till the holiday season to enjoy whatever perks there are, they're able to really appreciate New York City at its fullest. And another component is if I were to stay in New York City, rent increases significantly less compared to salaries because of, I would say, a lot of the regulations involved. So while rent might be taking up approximately a little under 30% of my current pay, over the next 10 years, it'll be significantly less than that just because of that delta between the two growth. So I can see myself potentially living in New York City. The thing is, I can't really see myself raising a family in New York City. And this is where I'm starting to think of fire as an evolutionary system, in that initially it was all about math, then it moved to mental health, right? Like, that's when we're talking about middle class, trap, death march, all these, I would say terms to try to describe the feelings that we're experiencing. And I'm almost trying to think of the next stage is philosophy. Like, what is the purpose of life? What are we trying to optimize for? Because once we recognize that optimizing for money is not ideal, like, I don't know, I could totally see myself living singly in New York City, but I, you know, trying to figure out what. What do I want in life? And that's a question that I feel like is better answered in New York City, amongst friends, amongst many with a variety of different experiences, as opposed to kind of in my house, hack in the suburbs, not to throw shade, but, you know, I can definitely see myself just, you know, never leaving the house because I never want to spend money. Whereas in New York City, it's almost like a sunk cost. And obviously that's not the best way to manage your finances. But, you know, it definitely seems to be Working a little bit.

[Scott Trench]

I house hacked in the city of Denver. But you would have called it a suburb. It is the city of Denver, but it's just that it's not the subject.

[Eli]

Same look, I could totally see myself getting a cabin near a ski lodge, you know, maybe working as a ski instructor for a time. But yeah, New York City, once you're in New York City, every other city is like, huh.

[Brandon]

I lived in Chicago. It's not nearly as big as New York, but it still had the same feel. You're right. I lived in the suburbs of Chicago and in Chicago itself. And there's a lot more to do when you're in the big city than there is in the suburbs. And yes, there's things to do in the suburbs, but I found myself driving to the city quite a bit. I don't find myself driving to the city of Denver so much just because it's a different time in my life. I've got my kids and, you know, long months. Pretty exciting. Back to New York. And, you know, Chicago was expensive. New York when I visited feels expensive. What are some of the hacks that you have for keeping your expenses down, especially housing, which is according to the personal financial statement that you shared with us, and thank you so much for that. Rent is your number one expense expense by far. So what are some hacks you have for keeping all these expenses so low?

[Eli]

I kind of view it that I'm going to spend on what I need and whatever I want, I'm going to try to either earn extra money. So whether that's the credit card bonuses, the bank bonuses, the sports, like all these other ways, I view it that my salary is for my future and to cover my needs. If I want to do something fun, I need to figure out how to earn it right. Like, I need to, like, reward myself. So playing that game a little bit bit has definitely been extraordinarily helpful. I also think it's changing the terms of the game in that how can I find this thing for free or significantly cheaper? So, for example, I have a rule that I will only spend $200 on Broadway a month. Now the question is, how many shows can I see for $200 a month? Whereas most people are spending $200 on a single Broadway ticket. I've seen, like, I have a little bit of a wall here, my little trophies. I've often seen as many as five Broadway shows in a single month. And I think that that's because I've put in the time to learn and I recognize that there's almost a triangle in accounting. We think of something called the fraud triangle, which is like motive, ability and opportunity. Probably quoting that wrong, but I kind of think of it. There's cheap, quick and quality. So if you are a tourist in New York City, everything has to be quick and you're only going to go for the quality. So already on that kind of triangle you have to have two things, which then means it's very likely not going to be cheap. Whereas for me, because I, I can learn about it, right? I can learn when are the deals on, right? When is everything going to be cheaper, right? What are the free promotions? So many things in New York City are free. Like so many of the best places, right? They literally, like in Broadway, they literally need the seats to be filled as much as possible. So I can log onto an app about 20 minutes before the show starts and I can find tickets for, you know, 10, $20. And if you are planning your trip two months in advance and you are looking at the prices, those prices are not the same prices. They're thing when it comes to, I would say restaurants. If you're going to be in the touristy section of Manhattan, it is very different than if you're in the all you can eat Chinatown section. There is someone in the New York City fire community who has been an absolute inspiration when it comes to all you can eat. You know, like it's an ACE acronym and it's just the amount of food that you can eat for ridiculously low amount of money is mind boggling to me. But there are people who do it.

[Scott Trench]

This is awesome. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I probably could have done the same things here in Denver to some extent and just never really thought it through. It's probably that much powerful in a place like New York City to be able to do this kind of stuff. So that's incredible. What else besides restaurants and Broadway shows do you or other people, you know, what are they able to do to keep costs low?

[Eli]

Fashion and furniture. New York City is incredibly, incredibly expensive when it comes to real estate for these big box stores. So let me tell you, that clearance section has something that might be $500 into Nordstrom outside of New York for $9 because they're trying to get the quickest fast out as quickly as possible in front of the people who are actually willing to buy. So if they have something that isn't going to the front shelf, they're not necessarily going to ship it off to somewhere else. They're going to ship it to the Clearance section. And New York City is like a fashion capital from what I understand. And you can find incredible things for incredibly cheap if you're looking not in the front window. Additionally, when it comes to furniture, Facebook marketplace, like I remember listening to a choose fi episode where people talk about the alley will provide. And I'm like, in New York City, if you are on a WhatsApp, there are WhatsApp chats, there's Facebook chats, there are like all these things where people like, there are building chats, there's a building email list where it's like, hey, I'm moving. Here's all this stuff that I just need to get rid of, have it. And like my desk is from there, my monitors and like this is like quality stuff. And again, I'm not really, really going to get clothing from these chats, but something that's like akin to furniture or something that's like a cooking utensil. Like something where, you know, you can clean, clean it and it's gonna be fine. There's almost no reason to be spending in these. I, I look at New York City as a showroom and whenever there's a showroom, there's usually a out of box opportunity.

[Brandon]

The alley will provide, the curb will provide. I will walk down. You know, we'll stay someplace and we just, we walk everywhere in New York or we'll take the train one way and then walk back. But there's really, really awesome furniture that I walk past and I'm visiting and I can't take it with me. I'm like, man, how could I get that home?

[Eli]

Text me next time you see that.

[Brandon]

I will.

[Scott Trench]

Here's another thing I think people don't really get about New York City. Or at least I have a bias. I'm going to see if it's confirmed. When you answer this question, let's say you lose your job, right? Or like your division shuts down very. I know it's very unlikely in your particular situation, but, but let's say that your company goes out of business, they move on from you or your boss, or just close your division for some reason overnight, you're not expecting it. How easy would it be, relatively speaking, for you to get another job in the same sector at similar pay where you live?

[Eli]

So I don't know the answer to that in that I have not done that for myself. I do know that I have been helping several of my friends find jobs. New York City is very difficult if you go about things in the traditional way. What I found and this is where I would say I do have some level of expertise about two years ago, which was I actually had seven jobs, four fellowships, and then realized I could make more money starting my own business. To me, it's really about really just putting on public forums, hey, I'm looking for a job. Not really doing LinkedIn, easy apply, where, like, I really don't think that you can go into a place and be like, here's my resume. That simply will not work. You will not get past the security guards or the doorman or anything without a badge. But if you know someone. So I know that in New York City, there's so many public places. I got some of my jobs through Equinox, right? Like, I was just talking to people in the steam room. You know, I was that guy. And I actually ended up making more money between clients and the jobs that I found, right? Like fellowship opportunities by speaking with people in public settings because of people in New York City. And this is one thing that I wish to one day be able to perform. They want a mentor. They want to see, like, hey, what's this young whippersnapper doing? You know, like, how can I help them? Right? Like, here's. Here's a push in the right direction. I think that in New York City, there's definitely opportunities to find jobs. I don't know if they will be equivalent jobs. I do think, though, that you will be able to find a job fairly quickly if you are really putting yourself in, I would say, the position to meet the people who are hiring or know the people who are looking for people to hire. I think that online in New York City simply does not exist.

[Scott Trench]

That was where my bias would have been, and I think I need to check it a little bit here. But it would have been that New York City is relatively the best. I'm going to rephrase it to least bad based on what you said here in terms of being able to find a replacement job of any major city in the United States in most fields, because in Denver, for example, you know, if the company that's hiring you goes out of business or doesn't have a job, it's not like there's like 150 other companies of that same type in the city that are hiring, right? You're going to have to hire, get a remote job, or you're going to have to do something that's a little bit different and that could be a threat to your standard of living. But in New York City, I'd imagine there are dozens of firms that do very similar types of activities to the work that you're doing. And so you have a much better relative shot at getting replacement pay, if not full pay, having a smaller reduction in pay if you end up losing your job. That would be, that would be my bias going into that, that question. But it sounds like that's somewhat true, but, but needs to be couched a little bit. There's a big networking component too.

[Eli]

I also think that in addition to New York City, there's not nearly as much layoffs compared to people ju ship. So what usually will happen is like they're not going to give a bonus one year. And that's basically the sign, okay, if people don't leave, we're cutting jobs. So a lot of times people leave and they're usually going to leave for a higher salary because as you know, like, if you're staying at a job more than two, three, four years, you're usually getting paid significantly less than your counterpart. An example of this is like in my own firm, like, I've had conversations with people where they're shocked to see how much the starting people are making now because when they first started it was significantly less. So in New York City, there's a huge, I would say, entry level component where there's entry level competition, where firms are looking to hire and they're willing to pay relatively top dollar. And then I would say there's the secondary component when you are looking to, I would say get to the next position and you're willing to reach for it and you've shown that you're capable. Because as I mentioned, the New York City work culture is significantly different than, I would say, other areas in the United States. And I would say for good reason. But that's, I would say, a boon in the sense that companies are willing to pay because you have the New York City training versus other place. This is obviously just from some conversations that I've had with recruiters. But yeah, you constantly have to be reaching out to recruiters, I would say, to see what is my market level at. I can definitely say from my perspective, for me, the goal was to learn as much as I can and then reevaluate. I would say I'm definitely coming to a point where I'm going to be reevaluating in the near future. I would say after this coming busy season and I can give an update. But I think that it's really about the recruiters in New York City. They're the ones who are the gatekeepers to the job the hiring managers, they're the ones who can point you in the right recruiter's direction.

[Brandon]

Any tips for making friends with recruiters?

[Eli]

Absolutely. So that is something where LinkedIn actually can be very helpful. If you offer to buy a recruiter or coffee, they're usually going to be friends with you. I would say another thing is go to spaces where recruiters are going to be at. So there are so many colleges in New York City, there's so many job fairs that are open to alumni as well. And there's a lot of times opportunities for plus ones. And there's a lot of, I would say open house run by corporations, run by different things. And there are so many free events in New York City. Like there's a philosophy club in New York City, I made a recruiter there. You know, like that's not, you know, necessarily where you're going to typically meet someone. But I would say in New York City, as long as you're not in your apartment, you might find a recruiter, you might find someone who knows someone. And I think in New York City there's very much kind of this tacit acknowledgement that everyone's trying to do better because otherwise why are you paying so much in rent? Like, what's the point? Like, if you're just kind of chilling that that is a little bit counter to your long term goals. Because New York City doesn't really make sense to be the place to relax and watch the sunrise and sunset unless you have, you know, a nice fire portfolio and a couple of rentals because then you already beat the game. But if you're playing it, you're, you're trying to speedrun it.

[Scott Trench]

I feel both proven wrong by you're clearly pursuing fire hire very successfully at a young age, starting in Manhattan here. And I feel partially validated because my initial bias of, hey, if I'm living in Manhattan and I'm earning all this money, it's because I probably want to be the best in the world or among the best in my profession in this particular area. And New York City provides that.

[Eli]

Right?

[Scott Trench]

I can, I can just focus on that. I can make so much money that it obviates the other issues in my life. And I, I can get the best bagel in the world around the corner, see the best show in the world around that corner, go to the best restaurant here for, for dinner on Tuesday and do everything in between. I can go to a sporting event, I can go to a show, I can go to, you know, the best shopping, I can go you know, to the best fitness centers here and hang around with. With celebrities. They're all right there, if that's what I want here. Because the city just provides that. And then I can just focus entirely on work and it. It's all as long as I have the money able to be around me. It sounds like that is real, and that is a drawback or a constraint or a situation to deal with while you're going through it. But the opportunity to pursue fire is also there. And for those inclined to hustling and developing the skill of enjoying the city, fire in New York City also offers all of that. Maybe not on your terms, you know, maybe you got to be flexible. I'm not going to be able to see the show on Friday night on a peak weekend, but I can see it on Tuesday, and I can see it for 10 bucks while I pursue fire and while I am fire and Manhattan. Is that. Is that the right takeaway I should have from this conversation?

[Eli]

I definitely think so. I think that when it comes to fire, New York City fire is going to look very different than most of what I've been hearing. And I would say one of the skills that I've developed in New York City is being able to listen to podcasts at four times speed. So it's very interesting to hear your voices at regular sound.

[Brandon]

I don't even think I can speak at four times speed.

[Scott Trench]

I could barely understand myself at two times speed.

[Brandon]

You are not the first person that has said that to me. I listen to you at two times speed. You talk so slow.

[Eli]

I would say if I were to be able to really drill down on what the takeaway is, fire is already extreme, right. Compared to the huge majority of, I would say, America, even the world. It's a huge opportunity and you are going to make choices that are going to be different than your neighbors. If you're pursuing fire in New York City, it can be that times 10, right. Because you can have opportunities that you might not have elsewhere. So I would say not to, you know, showboat or really, like, talk up New York City too much, but I really think that New York City has. Has the most opportunity to really leverage. And I think that when you're young, right, that's when you should try to be getting as many levers as possible and really figuring out with the least amount of time, but the most amount of effort, what can I do? And I think that that's going to be rewarded more in New York City or a city in general, as opposed to kind of the traditional advice, which I think is extremely valid, but in a different circumstance. So I would say the New York City challenge is how do you apply for fire in New York City? And that's something that there's a wonderful community that a lot of people are doing. And I can definitely say that New York City fire community has been absolutely incredible. But that's also because I don't know any other fire community just yet. But I'm looking to get to know more.

[Mindy Jensen]

Beloved.

[Scott Trench]

Thank you so much, Eli, for sharing all this. It really, really learned a lot here, and I think there's much more nuance to this than my initial dismissal of it a few months ago.

[Eli]

Well, your initial dismissal is correct, but as you know, it's also ridiculous to be retiring before 60. Fair enough.

[Brandon]

Yeah. So you were both right.

[Scott Trench]

Eli, congratulations on everything that you've achieved so far and the fantastic jumpstart you have to your financial independence journey. Thank you for sharing it with us.

[Eli]

I view it that I'm standing on the shoulders of you and so many others who have been able to give me this knowledge. So, like, thank you again, truly, like, I would probably be like every other New Yorker who's, you know, living paycheck to paycheck in credit card debt if not for the fire community. So I think that applying to FIRE principles can help you no matter where you are, even in your York City.

[Brandon]

Awesome. Okay, thank you so much, Eli, and we'll talk to you soon.

[Eli]

Thank you. Okay, bye.

[Brandon]

All right, that was Eli's story, and I was so excited for all the different tips he shared on how to reach financial independence in a bigger city. Eli, I am so thankful that you reached out to us to say, excuse me, Scott, that's not true. You can reach financial independence in the Big Apple. If you want more financial independence information, head on over to biggerpocketsmoney.com and sign up for our new newsletter. We send it out once a week on Wednesdays. We also have free resources, calculators, and templates to help you accelerate your financial independence journey. And we cannot wait to see you tomorrow for Wally Miller's bonus episode on her unique financial independence story, where her combined income has never been over $200,000, all while living in New York City. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He has got to Trent. I am Bindi Jensen saying, see you soon, raccoon.

[Mindy Jensen]

When you're ready to start your business, Northwest registered Agent helps you do more than just file paperwork. You get all the tools to build a real business identity from day one, a business address, a website, a phone number, an operating agreement, free guides and more at no extra cost. Northwest is your one stop business resource. Build a professional website, stay in good standing with on time annual filings, get simple explanations of corporate bylaws and more. With Northwest privacy comes standard. Your data is never sold and all services are handled in house under their privacy by default promise. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered [e-mail] moneyfree

[Brandon]

some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money because behind every headline line is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story and when you see the money side you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail].