Podcast Summary: BiggerPockets Money Podcast

Episode: How this Couple Achieved FIRE in Their 30s (Average Income)
Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Mindy Jensen & Scott Trench
Guests: Carolyn & Sam

Episode Overview

This episode shares the FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) journey of Sam and Carolyn, a couple who reached financial independence in their 30s on average incomes. Their story stands out due to their strategic leverage of post-FI freedom to pursue Canadian citizenship, hedging against healthcare costs and choosing an intentional, values-driven life. The discussion goes beyond numbers, focusing on mindset, frugality, side hustles, real estate, geo-arbitrage, post-FI transitions, and the redefinition of “retirement.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Habits and Foundations

• Frugality from the Start:

  • Bought a cheap condo before marrying, house-hacked by living with Sam’s brother.
  • Graduated debt-free; minimal bad financial habits.
  • “I was really afraid of credit cards just from… hearing Dave Ramsey in the car on the radio as a kid.” — Carolyn [01:11]
  • Premarital counseling emphasized money discussions and shared financial values.

• Intentional Beginnings:

  • Avoiding debt rooted in desire for a strong marriage.
  • “Money problems tank marriages. And that was the phase of our life. We’re going to set up like an amazing marriage.” — Carolyn [02:41]
  • Early investments: maximized retirement accounts, hefty savings from every raise.

Discovery & Acceleration Toward FIRE

• Before Knowing FIRE:

  • Practiced sound finances before learning about FIRE (often via Money Under 30 and public finance blogs).
  • “By the time we decided to actually pursue FIRE… it wasn’t like a massive odyssey.” — Carolyn [04:12]

• Key Influences:

  • Blogs: Mr. Money Mustache, Money Under 30, Frugalwoods
  • Books: Set for Life, Your Money or Your Life, The Simple Path to Wealth.
  • “We just were fanatical, and it gave us something to talk about other than, ‘I’m stressed and I hate my job and the baby is still crying.’” — Carolyn [19:06]

Catalyst: Family & Life Change

• Parenthood Wake-Up Call:
  • The birth of their son highlighted stresses of dual full-time careers.
  • “We found ourselves in this position where it was like we did everything right… and then we have this healthy, beautiful, bouncing baby boy. But we’re looking at each other like, this is hell.” — Carolyn [14:59]
  • Led to fantasizing about quitting their jobs, traveling, and seeking a lifestyle change.

Financial Playbook: Saving, Investing, Side Hustles

• Saving Savvy:

  • Consistently maximized 401(k)s, IRAs, post-tax accounts.
  • “Every new promotion and raise just went more and more into savings.” — Carolyn [06:38]

• Real Estate & House Hacking:

  • Leveraged properties for rental income—basement, friend tenants, eventual Airbnb.

• Aggressive Side Hustling:

  • Airbnb Experiences: Ran Asheville’s first canoe-to-brewery tours, netting up to $10,000/month at its peak ([22:08]).
  • “Our entrepreneurial energy started to really take off.” — Sam [22:26]
  • Rented camper vans, canoes, basement, and more—monetized everything possible.

• Transition to Real Estate Investors:

  • Bought, lived in, and rented out multiple properties.
  • Flexibility: “Every time we’ve bought a place, it’s with multiple exit strategies in mind.” — Carolyn [28:02]

Reaching FIRE: The Numbers

• Trajectory:

  • 2011: Net worth ~$200k
  • 2016 (when son born): ~$500k
  • 2019 (Sam quits): ~$800k
  • 2020 (Carolyn quits): ~$1.1M
  • 2025: ~$1.8M
  • Salaries never exceeded low six figures combined; Sam often under $80k/year.

• Sequence of Quitting:

  • Sam left first, side hustles replaced income. Carolyn followed, finishing a nonprofit director role responsibly.
  • “Side hustles probably replaced your full time income.” — Carolyn [32:58]

Post-FI, Geo-Arbitrage and “Canadian Hedge”

• Healthcare & International Strategy:

  • Rising U.S. healthcare and education costs prompted exploring Canadian residency for dual citizenship.
  • “We love the idea of having dual citizenship, so we hadn’t gone that far into it, I think that would have pushed us even further…” — Carolyn [42:22]

• Canadian Move Logistics:

  • Applied through Express Entry Federal Skilled Worker Program: Selected for young age, education, and financial stability.
  • “We had to drive to Alabama to take an English test to prove that we speak English.” — Carolyn [44:03]
  • Residency requires 1,095 days in Canada within 5 years for citizenship ([49:07]).
  • Paid Canadian taxes (difference above U.S. tax), but found it justified by health & education benefits.
  • “Our son broke his leg… we didn’t pay a penny. It was worth it.” — Carolyn [47:15]

• Social Perspective:

  • Initially seen as “weird” by friends, earned respect after quitting jobs.
  • “This is around the time people start thinking we’re weird.” — Carolyn [25:57]

Decumulation Phase & Course Corrections

• Drawing Down:

  • First lived off brokerage and rental income. Sold a property when it no longer fit their lifestyle.
  • Missed some Roth conversion ladder opportunities, now working with a planner to optimize for future ([63:15]).
  • “Better late than never to get a good plan in order… we need to get a good plan in place.” — Carolyn [64:05]

• New Careers, Still FI:

  • Sam pursued a passion: theology degree, now working in community service (church).
  • Carolyn works part-time at a startup.
  • “There’s something deeply liberative and you might even say spiritual about fire.” — Sam [54:51]
  • They describe life as “optional post-retirement career” and emphasize the psychological freedom of not needing to work.

Redefining Retirement

• Financial Independence ≠ “Never Work Again”:
  • Their version: freedom to pursue meaningful work, be present for family, and support local community.
  • “It is absolutely the removal of the requirement to earn dollars.” — Scott Trench [53:52]
• Personal Meaning:
  • FIRE enabled both to pursue vocation and family priorities, volunteer time, and maintain deep connections.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Fire isn’t about deprivation. It’s about intentional choices that buy you freedom.” — Mindy Jensen [00:00]
• “I think what’s unfair… if you optimize in the context of that… that just explodes… you’re gonna get really wealthy… or have the option to retire decades early.” — Scott Trench [03:22]
• “It became my full time job—the side hustles.” — Sam [32:28]
• “We were just fanatical, and it gave us something to talk about other than, ‘I’m stressed and I hate my job and the baby is still crying.’” — Carolyn [19:06]
• “Do you call what you’re doing right now retirement?” — Scott Trench [53:26]
  • “I think you refer to it as an optional post retirement career, which in theology is actually super…” — Carolyn [53:30]
• “From my perspective in theology, there’s something deeply liberative… about fire. When you can remove yourself from the constraints of money… it will free you to do the things… that really matter to you.” — Sam [54:51]
• “To the Internet retirement police… email Sam and Carolyn at tellsomebodyelsewedontcare.com.” — Mindy Jensen [55:35]
• “If we wanted to, we could both quit now and go back to that beach… but we feel very fulfilled.” — Carolyn [56:13]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] Frugality, premarital counseling, early money habits
• [04:12] Realization they were naturally on the path to FIRE
• [05:15] Resources and early financial influences
• [14:59] Parenting crisis as a turning point
• [17:35] Discovery of FIRE as a solution
• [20:23] Detailed breakdown of side hustles (Airbnb, canoe tours, van rental)
• [27:57] Transition into real estate investing
• [30:13] Quitting traditional jobs, side hustles replacing incomes
• [36:54] Geo-arbitrage and Canadian dual citizenship decision
• [43:46] Canadian immigration process
• [53:26] Redefining retirement: Is this “retirement”?
• [54:51] FIRE as a catalyst for personal growth—spiritual and community fulfillment
• [63:15] Decumulation, missed Roth ladder, working with a financial planner
• [66:22] How to find Sam and Carolyn (“Come to Asheville!”)

Lessons and Takeaways

1. Strong Foundations Matter:
Early frugality, debt avoidance, and value alignment supercharge wealth before you even “know” you’re doing FIRE.

2. Side Hustles and Real Estate:
Active income streams can replace traditional jobs—especially when combined with strategic real estate choices.

3. The “Middle-Class Trap” is Real:
Staying engaged and continuously learning is key—don’t tune out after hitting FI.

4. Geo-Arbitrage & Healthcare:
Thinking globally can solve problems (like healthcare) that seem “unsolvable” in the U.S.—but requires complex logistics and tax awareness.

5. FIRE is Freedom, Not Just Retirement:
Post-FI life can mean new careers, passion projects, or simply opting into work on your terms. Retirement is about choice, not absence of work.

Useful Links & Further Reading

• Set for Life – Scott Trench
• Mr. Money Mustache
• Money Under 30
• Frugalwoods
• Your Money or Your Life – Vicki Robin & Joe Dominguez
• FIRE Success Stories – BiggerPockets Money
• Express Entry Skilled Worker – Canada

Conclusion

Sam and Carolyn’s journey demonstrates that FIRE is not about extreme deprivation or massive incomes, but rather rooted in intentional living, continuous learning, entrepreneurial optimism, and courageous decision-making—even if it means moving countries for long-term stability. Their story inspires listeners to align their financial and personal goals, use their freedom to focus on what matters, and reimagine what “retirement” should mean.