← BiggerPockets Money Podcast
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- [00:00]
Mindy Jensen
Today's guest, at just age 36, did what most of us dream about. Walked away from a secure W2 job to take what was supposed to be just a one year sabbatical. That temporary break transformed into extended travel around the world. When it came time to dust off his resume, he decided he didn't want to go back to traditional employment. So he didn't. What did he do instead? That's what we're going to talk about in this episode. Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always, is my back from his daddy sabbatical co host Scott Trench.
- [00:39]
Scott Trench
Thanks Mindy. It's great to leave my parental duties, well time at least and come back to Bigger Pockets. Bigger pockets money. Biggerpockets has a goal of creating 1 million millionaires. You're in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you're starting. But you actually have to have the mental chops to leave your work and give up what I imagine is a peak income at that point in time to go and realize Tuesday afternoon at the park. So today we are super excited to be joined by Ryan Brennan, founder of the FI Service Corps. We will absolutely get more into that organization in our conversation, but we're excited to start with his money story and how he was able to leave his W2 job at the age of 36. Ryan, thank you so much for being here.
- [01:22]
Ryan Brennan
Thanks Scott. Thanks Mindy. So great to be here with you guys.
- [01:25]
Scott Trench
Well Ryan, I want to kick this off with before hearing about your money story. I want to hear about your Tuesday. What'd you do yesterday?
- [01:31]
Ryan Brennan
Yesterday I went to an Orange theory class at 10:00am that's something that I've really enjoyed during this time off from work is incorporating exercise during normal hours and not doing it like 6 in the morning or 9pm at night. I think having it at manageable times makes it very sustainable habit. So yesterday I did orange theory at 10am and then I wrote up a few emails in regards to FI Service Corps. So that's kind of been my afternoon focus. I'll go to a coffee shop and spend some time emailing the mailing list or making contact with potential volunteer partners. And also I spend a lot of time walking my dog. I have a dog and a cat, so when I'm home I play with the cat and take the dog on lots of walks all around my neighborhood. So Yesterday was a pretty standard Tuesday, I would say.
- [02:30]
Scott Trench
Love it. I find a high percentage of people who become set for life begin to sweat for life in their off time, extra time they have. So here you go. Yeah. So waiting like five minutes to insert that lame one there. Ryan, let's go back and hear your story about how you became FI and built the situation. Can you tell us where your money story begins?
- [02:52]
Ryan Brennan
Sure. So I'm kind of hesitant to say that I became fi. I have built up a financial Runway to comfortably step away from my W2 job about a year and a half ago in September 2023 when I was 36. My plan at that time was to take a year off and then resume full time work with another organization. But, you know, I'm kind of stretching it out and trying my hand at different projects before, you know, I really feel the need to go back to work. But as far as where things began, it began in real estate. For me. I have always been the HGTV junkie. And you know, I've watched those shows like Flip this House and Fixer Upper and you know, throughout college I basically wanted to find a job, get a paycheck so I could use it to get a mortgage and buy a house and work on, you know, sweat equity projects. And that's pretty much where the thinking ended as far as real estate. And I purchased my first place in 2012 when I was 25, and I used all my savings to make the down payment and closing costs. And as I accumulated my paychecks, I tried to rebuild my savings and then put that towards improvements of the house. And it wasn't until I was there for about two and a half years I moved on and rented that house and saw that you could rent your property for a profit. And that was my first taste of passive income around 2014. And yeah, since then I got hooked. I'd never really been on board with the 9 to 5 till 65 mindset. And I thought I was kind of unique in that thinking. But then I discovered the FI movement and realized that there's a ton of you guys out there that have that same mindset, the same philosophy. So since 2014, I've, you know, in parallel I've invested in real estate and then worked my W2 job, which is accounting focused. And in the last 10 years I've flipped three houses, I've acquired another rental and right now I live in a four unit multi family with my wife, my dog and my cat. And we live in the apartment on the third floor and rent the three units below. So that basically covers our mortgage. So our. Our only living expense is really the insurance and utilities and maintenance that come with the property. So we're definitely not fi. But I'm not one of those people that thinks too far ahead. I'm kind of day by day. And yeah, that's basically a quick rundown of my story.
- [05:53]
Mindy Jensen
I've got lots of questions. Does your wife work?
- [05:56]
Ryan Brennan
She's about to start work in August. For the last three years, she's been a student doing a nurse practitioner program. So she's kind of going into her second act, if you will, in August. She used to be a social worker and then she got into this nurse practitioner program and she just graduated. So, yeah, she's got her summer off and then she's going to start working.
- [06:22]
Mindy Jensen
Wi Fi wife Phi. Yes, exactly. You will be WiFi. How many units do you own and what percentage of your monthly expenses does the rent cover?
- [06:33]
Ryan Brennan
So in terms of doors, I have six doors, and that is spread across three properties. Two single family homes and one multifamily that has four units. One of those units is my primary residence, so. So it's kind of hard to figure out what percentage covers my living expense because my expenses fluctuate a lot. Like, I kind of co mingle my renovations. And I'm an accountant. I can sort it out in my spreadsheets.
- [07:06]
Mindy Jensen
I was gonna say. Didn't you say you were an accountant?
- [07:09]
D
Separation.
- [07:10]
Scott Trench
You bought. When did you buy these three properties again? What was the timeline for them?
- [07:14]
Ryan Brennan
So my first property, I bought in 2012, and I've been holding on to that ever since.
- [07:21]
Scott Trench
Did you ever refinance it?
- [07:23]
Ryan Brennan
No, but I took out a home equity line of credit in 2018, and I've used that for, you know, renovation projects for the live in flips that I've done since then.
- [07:34]
Scott Trench
Got it. And then when did you buy the second property?
- [07:36]
Ryan Brennan
The second property was a flip that I lived in. I've got all the numbers and dates. I was ready for you guys. I bought my first live in flip in April of 2015. I bought it for 255,000, and I put about $75,000 into it over the two and a half years that I lived there and then sold it in November 2017 for 415,000. So. So that was about a $85,000 profit.
- [08:08]
Scott Trench
What was your annual income that year?
- [08:10]
Ryan Brennan
At that time, I was making about 70,000 at my W2 job. But the cool thing about that property during 2015 to 2017, I basically lived completely free because this was a three bedroom townhouse and I rented the other two rooms to friends and then it also had a full basement that I finished and turned into a separate apartment. So there was, you know, a chunk of time there where I had, you know, virtually no living expense and was able to really build up savings.
- [08:44]
Scott Trench
I want to highlight this, this house and this, this purchase as a, what I think is a major turning point in your, in your journey and something that people really need to digest here. Because you made $85,000 after tax, we're looking at maybe 70,000 in take home pay on this and you're making much more like more than that in a two year period tax free from the live in Flip and you're having your housing subsidized. So you compare the household. Were you with your significant other during this period or were you single?
- [09:14]
Ryan Brennan
I was with a significant other at the time.
- [09:16]
Scott Trench
A household that makes $85,000. Right. Or maybe you double that if there's two, two income earners there. It's really hard to accumulate meaningful wealth on that without doing some version of what you did there because that it essentially doubles your annual income and keeps those expenses low without generating any tax, any tax impact for you and there any taxable income that you have to pay, you have to pay based on. And so I, I just find it really hard for someone to accelerate, to jumpstart that journey to financial independence without starting a business or hitting it really rich and really maybe getting lucky for frankly with some sort of super duper side hustle. This is so repeatable and so few people will do it and you only have to do it like a couple of times to reap that freedom benefit forever basically. And I love the fact that right now you're sitting pretty in one unit out of four in a quadplex. Making probably makes the math so easy for the rest of your expenses that it's kind of silly on there. If that covers your housing expenses then like maybe you need a few thousand bucks extra on top of that and you're set. How am I doing? Is that, is my articulating this as, as the cheat code for you?
- [10:28]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, yeah. I mean I, at the time when I was, when I was going through it, I didn't really, you know, think that much into it, but it makes total sense. And yeah, I've, I've followed like the live in Flip philosophy. I've been you know, very aware of like the, the two year tax free sale. You know, if you're, if you live in a home for at least two years as your primary residence. When you sell, all the Profit up to 250,000 if you're single. 500 if you're married, is totally tax free. So once I had a success with that with my live in flip slash house hack. I repeated that a couple times and yeah, it was basically, I did move a lot. I have moved probably nine times in the last 12 years. Just doing the live in flips or. Yeah, I followed the Mindy and Carl path. I know you're on your 20 something house.
- [11:22]
Scott Trench
I've done the same thing. Right. It's just terrible. You're moving everything. It's just, it's just an awful day or two, plus a couple of weeks to unpack and maybe, maybe a couple months, if we're being really honest, to unpack everything on it. And nine is a lot. I didn't do nine. I mean I probably did seven in the 10 year period from 23 to 33 in there. And it's just rough. Like that is a real cost to this. And the benefit of course is at 36, you're hanging out at Orange Theory at 10am on Tuesday.
- [11:49]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, it, it can be a lot. And especially, you know, when you have pets, when you have a significant other. You know, I'm sure you guys are familiar with this. I mean there was times where I was kind of camping in my own house, you know, when the kitchen was being remodeled, I was just using my microwave and coffee maker, you know, for my meal prep and. But yeah, it's really, it's paid off and it's, you know, I, looking back, it's, you know, I, I have fond memories. It was fun. Um, you know, the moving is exhausting, but when you know that all that work is in support of this greater goal, it makes it like that much more motivating.
- [12:24]
Mindy Jensen
Yeah, cashing those a hundred thousand dollar checks that you're paying $0 in tax on makes it all a distant memory. Real quick.
- [12:31]
Ryan Brennan
Exactly.
- [12:32]
Mindy Jensen
After a short break, we'll hear how Ryan built a repeatable $1 million portfolio that allowed him to leave his W2 job at just age 36.
- [12:42]
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- [13:30]
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- [14:36]
Mindy Jensen
Welcome back to the show.
- [14:37]
Scott Trench
One other point I would like to call out here is these three properties I imagine because you never refinanced them, you took a HELOC out to buy a live in flip which I think is a great use of leverage and that is the right tool in my opinion. Short term variable interest rate debt for at the lowest possible rate for a short term 2 ish year investment is awesome. So those just wonderful strategy that you're building up to here. But one of the observations I'd have is a lot of people who bought real estate and kept going and going and buying more and more leading up to 2019 I think feel stuck like some of those properties the expenses maybe grew a little faster than the rents on there and even though they're stuck with the low they have a low interest rate mortgage, they're stuck with that low interest rate mortgage, they're not really producing that cash flow. But what I sense here is I hear one one of the properties is paid off. And it sounds like you did not refinance or cash out refinance to increase the loan balance on any of these properties. And that's allowed the last decade of rent growth to far outstrip those mortgage payments and really make the last few years noise. That's a hypothesis though. Is that correct? Am I, am I observing that? Right?
- [15:45]
Ryan Brennan
Well, none of my properties are paid off that I am currently holding onto. They do all have mortgages. And, and you're right, I have not refinanced any of them. All the rates are different. Like for example, the four unit multifamily, I bought that in the summer of 2023. So that is a 6.75 mortgage percent right now. Mortgage rate right now. The property that I bought in 2012 is 4%. And another rental property that I bought in 2018 is at around 5%. So I'm just kind of letting it ride. And as the rent comes in, it covers the mortgage and just chipping away at that mortgage balance and increasing my equity. That's my strategy. And I keep a running spreadsheet to make sure that I'm getting the proper return on equity, the equity that I'm sacrificing by holding onto these houses as a percentage of the annual rent that comes in, just to make sure that that still makes sense. And nothing's like, you know, too crazy where it makes, where it's totally feasible to sell the house versus collect like $6,000 a year. So that's all stuff that I try to stay aware of. And yeah, just kind of make decisions as I go.
- [17:04]
Scott Trench
Can we get the highest level numbers like what is the, what is the net cash flow from these properties? And maybe we can consider your, for this exercise, your house hack. You're a tenant paying full rent in your own house hack. How does that portfolio perform?
- [17:17]
Ryan Brennan
My property in Washington D.C. that I, my very first place, cash flow is about $500 a month. And I have a single family home in like Eastern Shore of Maryland, like Salisbury, Maryland. That also cash flow is about $500 a month. And my multifamily, the rent that it currently brings in is about 5,800. If I didn't live here and rented it out, you know, any rent for the unit that I'm in, I guess would be profit over the mortgage because the mortgage payment is about 5,800. So you know, conservatively speaking, I guess I would say that I could rent my unit out for like 2,400. So you know, hypothetically, the rental cash flow could be around, you know, 3400 per month.
- [18:08]
Scott Trench
Fantastic. And where is this property located?
- [18:10]
Ryan Brennan
It's in New Haven, Connecticut. The nurse practitioner program that my wife just graduated is, was at Yale University. So that's what brought us from Washington D.C. to New Haven about three years ago.
- [18:23]
Scott Trench
I didn't know you could cash flow.
- [18:24]
Mindy Jensen
In Connecticut and purchase in 2023 with the 6% mortgage.
- [18:28]
Scott Trench
That's like the house hack is such a cheat code with all this stuff. Like even in really adverse conditions where it's really hard to find that stuff, the ability to move in, self manage, do all that kind of stuff, it's just so powerful on that front in terms of freeing folks up. It's almost, it would take a really crazy set of circumstances for, you know, something else to be better than that. Like a free housing arrangement to some degree in a really luxury situation, like for it to be better than the alternative of renting or buying a regular home. At least from a financial perspective.
- [18:59]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, definitely. And I, and I do lean on a lot of my past experience being a live in landlord because, you know, there's a lot of, you know, advertising when units become vacant, writing up the leases, doing the renewals, and then also managing all the maintenance and repairs and like just general operations of the building. So, you know, I can understand how other people might be hesitant to dive into a situation like that. You know, luckily for me, it was after, you know, 10 plus years of, you know, real estate investing experience. So it definitely comes with challenges. Last Christmas Eve, a tenant called me because the water heater in the basement rusted out at the bottom and the basement flooded and I wasn't home. I wasn't here for Christmas Eve. I was with my family. So my Christmas Eve I spent on the phone with the plumbers trying to find somebody to come out in an emergency. So it definitely comes with challenges. But you're right, Scott. Overall, it is such a cheat code. It's such a hack because we're in our upper 30s and we're basically living completely mortgage free because of having tenants that live right below us.
- [20:10]
Scott Trench
I want to call out an observation there though. So you're, you're right. Like as a landlord you got to deal with some of those problems that happen on, on Christmas Eve, but your tenant also had to deal with that problem. And if you're a homeowner, you would also had to deal. You also have a certain probability of dealing with a problem like that at that same time. Obviously, a large number of units compounds that the risk of something happening for that. But it's not like these go to zero with the alternatives on these fronts. And we've all had to deal with the very unfortunate timing of problems at rental properties. When it rains, it pours, bad things come in force. Whatever, whatever your favorite one of those is.
- [20:48]
Mindy Jensen
We've got three properties so far that we're talking about. The, the place in D.C. the place in Maryland and the place in Connecticut. Are those the three properties that you currently own?
- [20:59]
Ryan Brennan
Correct.
- [21:00]
Mindy Jensen
And what about your stock market and other types of investments? Do you have anything outside of real estate?
- [21:08]
Ryan Brennan
I do, yeah. Through, through these live in flips and getting these windfalls of cash. You know, I've, I've used it to build up brokerage account. So you know, my net worth is just over a million. I would say it's made up of 250,000 in a 401K, $75,000 in a Roth IRA, about $120,000 in a taxable brokerage. And I'm a part of two syndications. One of them is actually through biggerpockets, the Brandon Turner Fund. And that's about $150,000. And then equity on my two rental properties, that's about $385,000. So that's about a mil. But if I counted the equity in my current primary residence, which I think I would because it's, it is like an investment that would add another 300,000. So you know, I'm, I would say net worth wise, I'm at 1.2, 1.3.
- [22:11]
Scott Trench
The question of whether to include home equity in a financial portfolio is an age old question and people never get tired of debating it. So we'll cover it another hundred times here on bigger pockets, more money because it's fun. But I think, I think personally in your case, I would absolutely include it in the financial portfolio because it's a house hack, right? I mean at any point you can leave this place and rent it out for full market rent and have a cash flowing asset. It was clearly bought with that intention and that analysis behind it and you're clearly sacrificing for that option. So this is a part of your financial portfolio and you're foregoing a permanent home or that option of the luxury of having, you know, your own yard, for example, a specific yard dedicated to you in order to have that. So I have always counted the house hack stuff because the intent was always to either sell them if the better opportunity came along to deploy the equity, or to hold them as a long term part of the financial portfolio. My house that I live in now is certainly, you know, I'll understand the value and add it to one calculation of my net worth, but I don't consider it a part of my financial portion portfolio. It's a liability that I have to, I have to fund now with my portfolio, much of which was built via house hacking. Like you.
- [23:24]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, I agree. I think in my situation it does make sense to, you know, include it in the net worth because of the, you know, kind of the investment philosophy behind this house. But I'm kind of, I'm always kind of careful to say that because I, I'm also aware of that debate, you know, about including the equity in your primary residence in your net worth and you know whether to do that or not. But yeah, I'm in total agreement.
- [23:47]
Mindy Jensen
We have to take one final ad break, but we'll be back with more right after this.
- [23:51]
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- [27:19]
Mindy Jensen
Thanks for sticking with us. Well, let's talk about your sabbatical. What made you want to take a sabbatical? Were you just burned out?
- [27:27]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, burnout was probably the driving force behind it. There were a few events that led up to the decision to walk away from the W2 job. So I had lived in Washington D.C. for the majority of my working career and I had a network of friends and a lot of established relationships in that area. And then my wife got into this nurse practitioner program at Yale in New Haven, Connecticut. So we uprooted ourselves and moved from Washington D.C. to New Haven in the summer of 2022 and my job went fully remote when I did that. So prior to that, I had this hybrid arrangement where I could work from home and go into the office kind of whenever I wanted. And I didn't realize at the time, but I think that was the perfect arrangement to kind of have that human interaction with your co workers, but then also be able to have the days that you work at home. So when I moved away, I lost that. I worked 100% remote for an organization that is not based in my area, with coworkers that were not around me, and I was a new person in a new city, so I didn't move here knowing anybody. And I felt like I couldn't get out and interact with my community because I was stuck in my house behind screens all day. And I had gotten promoted from accounting manager to director of finance, and that came with all kinds of stress and time commitments. And I thought that was the path I wanted to go down. You know, there was a salary increase in that and a title. Title bump. But. But in actuality, it just ended up stressing me out and making me feel just more and more detached from this new community that I had moved to. So, luckily, I had the financial Runway in my brokerage from these house flips and felt comfortable enough to step away. So I left that job. And maybe just to keep myself sane, I told myself this was just gonna be for one year and see how it goes, because, you know, it can be a kind of. Kind of a radical thing to just completely pull the plug on your W2 job when you're 36. So, yeah, that was kind of what led up to the decision to walk away. And now that it's been over a year and a half since, I have. Yeah, no regrets at all. I'm very happy with that choice.
- [30:05]
Mindy Jensen
Did you quit completely or did you plan a one year off sabbatical?
- [30:11]
Ryan Brennan
I planned a one year off sabbatical because I had a tentative arrangement with another organization to. To work for them. It was kind of a verbal handshake agreement that ended up falling through. And I can tell you guys the details. There's, like, a mentor, colleague of mine that worked for another organization in D.C. she was the CFO, and she was retiring at the end of 2024. And like, a year prior to that, she had called me and said, hey, Ryan, like, I would love for you to, you know, take over this role when I leave. I think you're a great fit for it. And I decided that, you know, I don't want to. Like, that's a. That would be A great fit for me. It's a nonprofit that has a four day work week, very manageable schedule, CFO job, which is what I've been working towards. And I decided that I don't want to just wait for her to retire. I want to just go ahead and quit my job now and then that will be there waiting for me towards the end of 2024. So that also gave me the peace of mind to walk away knowing that something was arranged. However, it totally fell apart. I went through the interview process with this organization and did a few rounds and it went really well. I met the president and the board and it got to the point that they were asking me like, Ryan, what do you need to know from us in order for you to decide to work here? And it was August 2024. This job was supposed to start in October 2024. They called me and said, we're going to go in a different direction with another candidate, like the treasurer of the board referred a colleague of his who has many years of CFO experience and you know, like, they're, they're a better fit for the role. Sorry. And yeah, so the year off was planned, but it, you know, it changed. But I've been adapting.
- [32:20]
Mindy Jensen
When in this one year process did you learn that the job wasn't available?
- [32:25]
Ryan Brennan
So I, I left my previous job in September of 2023, and I learned in August of 2024 that it wasn't going to happen.
- [32:35]
Mindy Jensen
Okay. Was your wife in school when you decided to take the sabbatical?
- [32:40]
Ryan Brennan
She was, she was. And that was the other, like, really beneficial aspect of taking a sabbatical while she was a student because she went from. Both of us had nine to fives prior to her schooling, and then she became a student. And all of a sudden her summers are now free and she has this month long winter break and she has two weeks off in March for spring break. So by me leaving my job, we were able to do a lot of extended travel together. And last summer, summer 2024, we got married and we did a six week honeymoon following our wedding. So we traveled. We traveled all through Europe for six weeks, hopped around a bunch of different countries, and it was actually on our honeymoon where I got that call that the job was, you know, the job had fallen through.
- [33:33]
Mindy Jensen
Wow, thanks.
- [33:34]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah.
- [33:35]
Mindy Jensen
So what was your plan for funding that sabbatical because your wife wasn't working and you were purposely taking time off. How did you fund that life?
- [33:45]
Ryan Brennan
I mentioned that right now my, the balance in my taxable brokerage account is 120,000. At the time that I left my job a year and a half ago, it was about 280,000. So my funding of this sabbatical was literally just drawing from my brokerage account to pay for my lifestyle. And that is a lot of money, but my lifestyle is not that expensive. But during that time, I paid for a wedding, I paid for the honeymoon, and also I put about 60 to $70,000 of renovations into this multifamily that I bought. So all that came out of my brokerage, and then the rest has been funding my life.
- [34:29]
Mindy Jensen
What made you want to start the FI Service Corps?
- [34:32]
Ryan Brennan
So volunteer work has always been something that I've done kind of, you know, in parallel with, with my FI journey. I've done a handful of construction trips where I'll travel to an area and spend a week working with a local nonprofit to rebuild homes or do new builds, primarily in New Orleans, because there was so much devastation after Hurricane Katrina, like 20 years ago. They're still recovering. So that's been a, you know, a part of my life for a while. And when I took this sabbatical in 2023, I started to attend more FI in person events. Prior to that, I've always been like a outsider looking in. I've like, you know, been listening to the podcast and reading the books and articles, but never actually like an in person participant until then. So when I went to these FI events, I started to gauge that the FI community really values in person interaction and like, interpersonal connection. Like, there's this drive to kind of get off the forums and get together in person. And then also I noticed that there was a lot of sessions and speakers at campfi or the Phi Freedom Retreat, focused on philanthropy and giving back and how we can do that in our communities or just in general. So I decided that it makes total sense to kind of marry these two things together. Volunteering and financial independence. So that's kind of like where the FI Service Corps seed was planted just after going to these FI events. And I, you know, luckily I made a lot of really good friends really quick at these five events. Like, it's, it's really, it's really common to go to a campfire and then walk, walk away with like 10 new friends. So I decided that, you know, I have the time and the means to put together a volunteer service trip for five friends. So, yeah, I decided to just, you know, take a leap and do it. And our first trip was in December of 2024. And all I did was text, like, eight friends that I had met at the 5Freedom retreat in Bali and you know, kind of pitched this idea, invited them to come on the trip. And this idea that's been kind of, that was kind of, you know, germinating in my brain for so long was totally validated when they all just said yes, like right away. So yeah, once they agreed to come, I, I set up a, you know, I blocked out three days of volunteering with a non profit that was based in New Orleans. So I decided to do something I was familiar with. So I chose this nonprofit that's kind of like a local habitat for humanity that I've worked with before in New Orleans. I've been to that city many times, so I know it well. And, and I arranged for a vacation rental for us all to stay at. And those were basically the two things to really, you know, solidify the trip. You know, finding the volunteer partner and then finding lodging where we can all stay together. And we went to New Orleans, we did three days of exterior paint on these homes that they call Opportunity Homes. They basically are built by this organization using as much volunteer labor as possible to keep the costs low. And then they're sold at a discount to qualifying families, usually first time home buying families who might not have the income levels to purchase a home at normal market rates. So, you know, it enables low to moderate income families to, you know, get into the housing market and build equity. So it felt really great to be a part of that and bring five people on board to like see, you know, where the fruits of their labor are going and who they're benefiting. And yeah, I thought it was just going to be a, you know, just a, a trip, one time thing. And it turned out so good that I decided that we needed to make it a, you know, an ongoing thing. It had amazing reception from the FI community, from the participants and yeah, so basically FI Service Corps was born after that. Love it.
- [39:08]
Scott Trench
And this, this is why Bigger Pockets has this mission of a million millionaires, right? Is you're not, you're not some uber wealthy guy with two and a half, $5 million. You know that that can generate, generates tens of thousands a month in passive, passive cash flow. You have this million dollar mark and you have enough to do anything on here and the flexibility to pursue what interests you and go after that with time freedom on there, you can't, you, you probably could do nothing, but you're kind of on that bubble and you probably won't quite do nothing on that front. And this is what happens as people move along that continuum towards fire, financial, independent, you know, in early retirement is, you know, we, we dangle the carrot of playing video games in the sabbatical. And you took it. Now you're thinking about. And I see that gaming headset on there, by the way. So I don't know if you're actually a gamer, but yeah, there's the.
- [40:00]
Ryan Brennan
I got it for the podcast.
- [40:02]
Scott Trench
Okay, all right, all right, all right, all right. But then, you know, then, then there gets the. To the work of how do we, how do we give back? How do I actually do something that can, that can make an impact in other people's lives? And all of these little things spring up, right? It's a common theme among five people. Maybe not five people the first month into their early retirement or sabbatical, but by year three, almost all of them have something like this going on in their lives or multiple organizations that they're a part of and contributing to. So love it. Wonderful, wonderful mission here. And I'm sure it will build and evolve and you'll find ever more efficient and scalable ways to give back as time goes on, as you learn more and continue to build the network in the FI community on there. By the way, we've talked about campfi in the past and yes, there is a summer camp experience for five folks. We actually had Stephen Boyer. Stephen Boyer. Good gosh. I haven't hung out with him multiple times. Stephen Boyer on the podcast here to talk about campfi. And it is like the ultimate millionaire next door retreat. The costs are extremely low. You're going to be bunking in a room with somebody. There'll be like a buffet style breakfast served or whatever, and then a BYOB chats with other people and a couple of speakers in an informal setting. But those are awesome ways to get plugged into the community. And I think a lot of people in the FI community have grinded out so long and hustled and kept. Been frugal for so long. And they're kind of opening up to that Freedom. Oh, it's 10 o' clock on Tuesday. What do I do that there's a need for community that emerges towards the end of that journey or the early part of retirement. And that is one of the best responses to that need so far. And good opportunities come out of that. So go check that out. They're super cheap. We're not affiliated with Campfire. We just like Stephen.
- [41:42]
Ryan Brennan
And I'll be at Camp FI Rocky Mountain week two. So if you want to, you know, come hang out in person. That's. But. Oh, really? Oh, excellent.
- [41:49]
Mindy Jensen
Rocky Mountain has four weeks now.
- [41:52]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah. And actually because of that, that I've. I felt inspired to add a service trip kind of in conjunction with the camp fives out in Colorado Springs. Like, because there's four weekends in a row, I wanted to try to test a service trip that kind of bridges two of the campfi weekends. So the Monday through Friday between campfi week two and week three, we're doing a service trip and we're going to be working with a local organization that's focused on the outdoors and they do trail cleanups and community garden projects. So, yeah, I'll be participating and I'll be leading that after my week two campfire. And I think it is a great way for anybody who's traveling to the area or lives in the area that's going to one of those campfire weekends to extend their trip and enjoy the area and, you know, travel with purpose and give back.
- [42:49]
Mindy Jensen
Yeah, that'll be awesome. And that's down in Colorado. I mean, the part of it's down in Colorado Springs. The part of the world that you're in is so beautiful and you get to do what, trail maintenance and you're out in nature in this beautiful part of the world. It unfortunately, you didn't check my calendar before you booked this trip and I am unavailable this year. But let me know when next year starts so that I can block that off on my calendar so I don't have a. A conflict because that sounds like a lot of fun.
- [43:22]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, I'll definitely let you guys know for the next one. And you know, if this is successful, I could see this being kind of piggybacked onto future campfires that are where there's multiple weekends in our in these different areas. Like, I know that there's three campfys that take place in Florida during the winter and there were just two campfys in Spain in April. So, you know, if things go well, I could definitely see a future where FI Service Corps fills that gap of time between the campfire weekends to give people an option to extend their stay.
- [43:56]
Scott Trench
You know, there's all this math around the 4% rule and all these other types of things. Your portfolio is essentially all in your 401k Roth and then these two properties, you do have a little bit of brokerage and syndication, but do you also have a cash position that you maintain that helps you kind of sleep at night or maybe help to get over the edge and taking that year long.
- [44:17]
Ryan Brennan
Sabbatical I used to. During this sabbatical, I've wiped out a lot of my cash position in my taxable brokerage. So basically, like, as needed, I sell investments and then draw from that account. Luckily, it's not a lot. Like, you know, recently I just did a transfer of like $2,000 to cover this month. But, you know, by living mortgage free, having the rental income come in, and then the other two properties, cash flowing about a thousand per month, you know, we're. It covers a lot. And we, my wife and I, don't have, like, extravagant lifestyles. We love to travel and. And we have our priorities when it comes to our spending, but we don't have unnecessary consumer debt. We don't have crazy car payments. So at this point, I just draw from the brokerage as needed. And right now I need to kind of create that cash position because it's been depleted.
- [45:23]
Mindy Jensen
Is there a point in your financial life where you would feel compelled to go back to work?
- [45:29]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, absolutely. When I first discovered the FI movement, the Fire movement, I was kind of obsessed with the retire early part of fire, because I discovered it, like, probably in 2016 when I was sitting in the cubicle of my job, just kind of waiting for 5 o' clock to hit. And since then, I've kind of reallocated, like, redirected my. My focus when it comes to work and redefine what success means. So I think for me, I would work again, for sure, but it would be with an organization that has a flexible schedule, probably something in my community where I can interact with colleagues because I enjoyed working. I'm a cpa, and I've primarily worked in the nonprofit industry for most of my career. And I do enjoy that type of work. I just don't enjoy that being 100% of my life like it was a few years ago.
- [46:31]
Scott Trench
Yeah, that can be really taxing.
- [46:33]
Ryan Brennan
Yes, absolutely. Like, I was just. I was stuck in my house, I was getting fat, so had to make a change. So, yeah, if I can find something or if something, you know, becomes available where it makes sense, then I would absolutely work again.
- [46:50]
Mindy Jensen
Have you done the math to see what level of financial independence you are? Like, there's Coast Phi and Lean Phi and Barista Phi and all the different flavors of fi. Are you. Would you consider yourself Coast Phi?
- [47:03]
Ryan Brennan
I would. When I left my job, I definitely would have considered myself Coast Fi. And I've been, you know, chipping away at that balance that's contributing to the Coast Phi. So, yeah, I think as time goes on, we're going to figure it out. My wife is going to start her career and she's going to have a good salary to help rebuild her savings. And we're kind of figuring things out as we go. I know there's a lot of people in the fi space that are super analytical and they have their target, they have their timeline. But I think I've definitely gotten more into the slow fi and the coast fi mindset where you work on, you know, just designing, designing your best life while you're on your journey. So I, I guess I would say I am coast fi, but it would be, you know, a very, I'd like to continue to build it. So if there's opportunities to earn income that makes sense, I would definitely do it. But yeah, I'm just, I'm one of those people that's okay with risk and like, actually because of my accounting background, I know that I can fall back on, you know, bringing in a W2 income again. So, yeah, I, I'm okay with just navigating the unknown when it comes to the numbers.
- [48:31]
Mindy Jensen
And we have ignored the fact that you are wife fi or will be once your wife actually starts working as her nurse practitioner job. That's got to pay more than social worker, right?
- [48:43]
Ryan Brennan
Yeah, she's going to bring in a six figure salary being a nurse practitioner. And, you know, she owes me because these last three years she's. I've been covering her while she's been a student. So, you know, it's time for a little payback.
- [48:59]
Mindy Jensen
And I think it's, wow, don't share this with her.
- [49:02]
Ryan Brennan
She knows. And I think it's very timely because I'm pursuing this venture and you know, for the last three years she pursued her own venture. So, you know, little trade off.
- [49:11]
Scott Trench
Awesome. Was there anything else that our audience should know before we get out of here?
- [49:15]
Ryan Brennan
It's important for people to know that, like, volunteering can definitely complement your FI journey in lots of different ways. Like, there's a bunch that I can think of. But one thing, you know, maybe for the bigger pockets audience, like, it's a lot of real estate focused people and a lot of volunteer work that I did in the past was construction focused. And, you know, I not only got to work with organizations that had, you know, inspiring missions, but I got to learn new skills that I could apply to my own projects. So, like, for example, I learned how to install like vinyl plank flooring in a house that got damaged by a hurricane. And it felt great to do it at the time because the homeowner was a retired social worker, fixed income, and they kind of fell through the cracks when it came to FEMA relief. And so they relied on these grassroots organizations to repair their home. And after I learned that skill, I went home and installed vinyl plank floors in my house that I was flipping. So, yeah, I think that volunteering can complement your journey in so many ways when it comes to learning skills. Also travel hacking, there's a lot of volunteer state, like, what do they call them? Like a work stay kind of arrangement. And I think overall it's just a great way to connect with people. Like, it's really easy to make new friends, kind of like campfire, you know, when you're together and you all have a similar mindset. So I would encourage people listening. The five service corps trips, there's limited capacity, but I would love it if you signed up to join. But it doesn't have to be FI service corps. There's tons of opportunities probably in your own community where you can spend a day giving back and bonus points if you can invite the local choosefi group to do it with you. So, yeah, I guess that's the main message I'd want to give.
- [51:13]
Mindy Jensen
Ryan, we didn't share where people can find you online. Where would somebody find the fiservice Corps to sign up?
- [51:21]
Ryan Brennan
Our website is fiservicecorps.org so it's f I service c o r p s.org on the website. You can read our mission statement. You can learn all about the organization, and there's a page that has a listing of upcoming volunteer trips that you can sign up for. And then there's a contact page that has my email. It's ryanyservicecorps.org Feel free to reach out. You can sign up for the mailing list and yeah, happy to communicate with anybody who's interested.
- [51:58]
Mindy Jensen
Awesome. This was so much fun. Ryan, thank you so much. Ryan, thank you for starting the FI service core. I think it's a super great idea. I'm so excited to do it next year year when I have cleared my calendar in July so I can sign up for this. And thank you so much for sharing your story with us how you retired at age 36. I think that there's. There's a lot to be learned from that lesson and I, I am so thankful that you had the time to share with us. Well, it's not like you have a job, right?
- [52:24]
Ryan Brennan
I, I had the time, so no worries. But yeah, thank you so much, Mindy and Scott, so much. It was so Great talking to you guys.
- [52:32]
Mindy Jensen
Yeah, thank you. And we will talk to you soon. I will see you at Camp FI Week 2.
- [52:36]
Ryan Brennan
See you at CampFI.
- [52:38]
Mindy Jensen
All right. That was Ryan from FI Service Corps and that was such a great episode. If you are thinking that FI service core trips sound awesome but you don't have the experience with construction, don't worry on the job training is available. So don't let that be the reason that you don't go. Definitely check out his website, fiservicecorps.org and look into where the projects are coming up. Where, you know, where can you lend a hand? Where? What sounds interesting to you? I know several of the people that are on these trips and they're really, really cool. I have met them on other in person FI events. So even if the FI service core doesn't. Either it doesn't appeal to you or it's just not in an area or a timeframe that you can go to get yourself to an in person FI event, I cannot stress enough how awesome these events are. All right, that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He was Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen. Saying farewell. Snobel.