Losing $150K, Starting Over, and STILL Retiring Early | Life After FIRE

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast: Losing $150K, Starting Over, and STILL Retiring Early | Life After FIRE

Host: Mindy Jensen & Carl Jensen
Guest: Nick Johnson
Release Date: March 19, 2025

In this compelling episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, hosts Mindy Jensen and Carl Jensen delve into the extraordinary journey of Nick Johnson—a man who built a financial empire, faced a devastating loss of $150,000, and remarkably rebuilt his wealth to achieve Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE). Through candid conversations, Nick shares invaluable insights, challenges, and the triumphant path he navigated to secure his financial future.

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1. Introduction to Nick Johnson's Journey

Mindy Jensen opens the discussion by introducing Nick Johnson, highlighting his remarkable story of building, losing, and rebuilding his financial portfolio.

[00:00] Mindy Jensen: "Today we are talking with Nick Johnson, a man who built an empire, lost it all, and then built it back again."

Nick’s journey serves as a testament to resilience and the unwavering pursuit of financial independence.

2. Building the Car Dealership Empire

Nick begins by outlining his initial career as a computer programmer and his wife’s role as a college professor. In 2003, seeking to expedite their financial independence, Nick and his wife decided to venture into the car dealership business in Jacksonville, Florida—a region known for its vast, spread-out landscape which made car ownership a necessity.

[02:36] Nick Johnson: "We decided to go in and start a car dealership… Living below our means, contributing to our 401ks, and starting a Roth, we understood the basics of investing."

The decision was fueled by a desire to break free from the traditional 9-to-5 grind and create a business that could potentially offer residual income.

3. Challenges and Failure in the Car Dealership Business

Running a small, mom-and-pop car dealership presented unforeseen challenges. Nick recounts the multifaceted responsibilities they had to shoulder—from sourcing cars at auctions, many of which were in poor condition, to handling financing and repossessions. His compassionate nature often conflicted with the harsh realities of the business.

[05:38] Carl Jensen: "Nick, you seem like too nice of a guy to do this business..."

[05:45] Nick Johnson: "I found out I was a little too honest for the business… dealing with repossessions and financial setbacks was incredibly challenging."

The outdated business model, which relied heavily on substantial down payments covering vehicle costs, became unsustainable as customers struggled to meet these financial requirements, leading to consistent deficits.

4. Financial Downfall: Losing $150,000

After approximately a year of relentless effort, the dealership teetered on the brink of collapse. Nick shares the sobering moment when he realized the business was nearing zero and made the difficult decision to shut it down, advising customers to keep their cars.

[13:05] Nick Johnson: "We ate about probably $150,000 in our business… We had to keep moving forward."

This financial blow was compounded by the loss of income from his W2 job and the opportunity cost of withdrawing funds from their 401(k) accounts. Reflecting on the broader economic context, Nick acknowledges that entering the real estate market during the 2008 crash would have resulted in similar, if not greater, losses.

5. Starting Over: Transition to Teaching and Regaining Stability

Determined to recover, Nick leveraged his background in computer science to secure substitute teaching roles, eventually transitioning back into full-time programming. Concurrently, he and his wife took advantage of educational benefits to pursue graduate degrees, allowing Nick to become an adjunct professor at multiple universities. This strategic move not only stabilized their finances but also diversified their income streams.

[14:24] Nick Johnson: "I started being a substitute teacher… then full-time programming… then adjunct professor, balancing W2 and adjunct roles to rebuild our financial foundation."

Nick highlights the importance of education and adaptability in overcoming financial setbacks, demonstrating how acquiring new skills and certifications can open doors to alternative income opportunities.

6. Path to Financial Independence (FI) and FIRE

Nick's exposure to the FIRE movement in 2020 marked a pivotal turn in his financial strategy. Inspired by podcasts and local groups, he and his wife meticulously analyzed their finances, implemented disciplined saving and investing practices, and diversified their portfolio across real estate and various investment accounts.

[19:00] Nick Johnson: "In 2022, we hit our FIRE number… In 2024, I stepped away from my W2 job…"

Their investment strategy included real estate acquisitions through BiggerPockets, maximization of 401(k) and HSA contributions, and substantial investments in taxable brokerage accounts. This balanced approach ensured liquidity and access to funds, circumventing the constraints of retirement accounts and allowing for early retirement.

7. Life After FIRE: Community and Personal Fulfillment

Achieving FIRE in 2022, Nick describes a life transformed by financial freedom. He emphasizes the significance of community, engaging in volunteer work, maintaining an active lifestyle, and fostering meaningful relationships within the FI community. Nick also launched his own podcast, “Everyday Money Heroes,” aimed at inspiring others to take control of their financial journeys.

[27:24] Nick Johnson: "The community part of it is so vitally important… We have a hiking group, potlucks, and a supportive FI community that keeps us grounded and connected."

Nick credits his wife’s unwavering support and the camaraderie of the FI community as crucial elements in sustaining his financial independence and personal happiness.

8. Lessons and Insights from Nick Johnson’s Experience

Nick’s story imparts several key lessons:

• Resilience and Adaptability: Overcoming significant financial losses is possible through resilience, strategic planning, and adaptability.

• Diversification of Income: Balancing W2 employment, side hustles, and investments can create a robust financial foundation.

• Community Support: Engaging with a supportive community provides encouragement, knowledge sharing, and accountability.

• Avoiding the Middle Class Trap: By contributing to both retirement and taxable accounts, Nick avoided having his wealth locked away, ensuring accessibility and flexibility in his financial planning.

[33:53] Nick Johnson: "We need some living funds someplace… that allows me an opportunity to pull off that stuff if I need to as I'm kind of transitioning and working those other buckets."

Nick underscores the importance of maintaining a balanced investment portfolio to prevent being stuck in a financially restrictive middle class scenario, advocating for after-tax investments alongside traditional retirement accounts.

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Conclusion

Nick Johnson’s journey from entrepreneurial ventures, through financial hardship, to achieving early retirement encapsulates the essence of the FIRE movement—resilience, strategic planning, and the pursuit of financial freedom. His experiences offer valuable lessons for anyone striving to take control of their financial destiny, highlighting the importance of diversification, community support, and maintaining a balanced investment approach.

For listeners seeking inspiration and actionable insights on achieving financial independence, Nick’s story serves as a powerful example of overcoming adversity and building a fulfilling, financially secure life.

Connect with Nick Johnson:

• Podcast: Everyday Money Heroes
• YouTube: Everyday Money Heroes
• Website: Choose FI

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and subscribe to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast for more inspiring stories and financial insights.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Today we are talking with Nick Johnson, a man who built an empire, lost it all, and then built it back again. Hello.

[Carl Jensen]

Hello, Hello.

[Mindy Jensen]

My dear listeners, as you may or.

[Carl Jensen]

May not know, my husband Carl and.

[Mindy Jensen]

I have a new YouTube series on the Bigger Pockets Money YouTube channel called Life After Fire. And as a very special bonus, we're going to be airing episodes here on the podcast on Wednesdays. Without further ado, let's get into it. Hi there. My name is Mindy Jensen.

[Nick Johnson]

And I'm Carl Jensen.

[Mindy Jensen]

And this is the Mindy and Carl on Life After Fire where we talk about what happens after you reach financial independence.

[Nick Johnson]

Why do we call the show Life After Fire? Laf.

[Carl Jensen]

Laugh, Laugh.

[Mindy Jensen]

Because we're laughing. No, because we're talking about and talking to people who are living their best life after reaching financial independence. All right, we are so excited to get into the show. Nick, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Nick Johnson]

Thank you for having me. I'm excited, extremely excited to be here and thank you all for the time.

Yeah, I'm super excited to have Nick on. So this backstory to this show is I met Nick at fincon, which is a conference for creators, and he started telling me this story of how he built up his financial situation. And then he made a move that did not go well, lost it all, and then built it back up again. He said, if I can get it once, I can get it twice. And I thought that was so cool. No victim attitude, no pity party, just, okay, I did this, I can do it again. So that's what we are going to be talking about today.

[Mindy Jensen]

Nick, let's jump into how you had built it up the first time.

[Nick Johnson]

All right, act one. Right. So what happened is that I originally was a computer programmer, so I was application developer. And so whenever I hear Carl say hello world, it makes me giggle a little bit on the inside. Because if you're in that world, you understand the backstory to hello World. I did that. My wife was a college professor. She taught psychology. That's how we started off. So everything was good. We were being responsible, you know, living below our means. We were contributing to those 401ks. So we were doing that had started a Roth. So we were like, we understood the basics, the fundamentals, you know, trying to, you know, live below our means and invest a difference. But what happened is that one day I realized where I was at. I was like, I just didn't really feel like the life that we wanted, we would achieve through just the traditional kind of 9 to 5 that we're doing by W2 means. So I thought about, you know, what could we do to expedite that or even do a complete pivot as far as when it comes to what we were doing, our careers. And so we decided to open up our own business.

[Mindy Jensen]

I was going to say, what kind of business was this?

[Nick Johnson]

A little more context here. We live in Jacksonville, Florida, and in Jacksonville, Florida, it is spread out. I mean, it is large. For those of you who may not know, as far as. When it comes to, like, land mass, Jacksonville, Florida is the biggest content as far as in the contiguous US 840 square miles. It is huge. Right? And so there was two. Two businesses that we thought about. We thought about either doing real estate or we thought about opening a car dealership. Okay. And being that we were in Jacksonville and everything is so spread out and kind of giving a kind of time check on this. This was 2003. So it really wasn't things like, you know, your Uber, your Lyft, your ride shares, and things like that. So we say, you know what? We know people, if they had to choose between having their own place and having their own car, they would choose having their own car. And so we decided to go in and start a car dealership. And so, kind of some of the challenges that go on with a car dealership, it's pretty interesting, especially when you're a kind of small mom and pop kind of dealership, because that's what we were. We weren't one of the big names like a Lincoln or Toyota or anything like that. We're a mom and pop. And so what happened is that you literally have to wear all the hats. It was a challenge to do that. And first of all, it was just coming up with the initial capital to do that. And so we were like, okay, SBA loans. Is this kind of. Again, for context, I'm 27, 28 years old, so I know a little bit, but I don't know everything. So I'm like, hey, I know we got some money. We got these retirement accounts. Let's just go ahead and empty those out. We can use those. We'll make the money back. And so that was kind of the seed money that we decided to use to start this car dealership. So that is how we decided to get in there. Some of the things that kind of the challenges that we had was, as I said before, when you're a smaller dealership, you have to do everything yourself. When you have your own dealership, you have to. First of all, it sells, correct? Most people Sell, go to look for cars on the weekends, and we have to work. And so that particular part, you have to be there at the dealership to do that. But then you have to get cars, right? And so you have to go and get them. So typically you have to go get them from auctions. And the cars that you get at auctions are typically the cars that, you know, the car that, like, you barely got on the lot to, like, trade in because, like, it was smoking and it would run hot and all this other stuff. So those vehicles are the cars that typically you get at the auctions. I mean, sometimes you get cars that are off lease and stuff like that. So typically they are in horrible condition. So you go there and you get those cars, and if you're fortunate enough, you might have a team that can go and fix these cars for you. But if not, you got to be able to wrench it yourself. So you got to get cars, got to sell cars. You also have to deal with financing. There's a lot of paperwork that goes on because it's facilitated by the state. And then also it's unfun stuff, like you have to repo cars. I mean, so it's a lot of stuff that you have to do. And then literally, when you're like a mom and pop operation, I mean, I was doing days, it would be nothing for me to do a 16 hour day, five, six days a week, just from doing that.

Nick, you seem like too nice of a guy to do this business. I can't picture me walking in there and you're like, hey, what can I do to get you into this car today?

You know, Carl, part of the issue that I had is that I found out I was a little too honest for the business. I mean, literally, I was, wait. I'm extremely compassionate. And so when people would come to me and there's, hey, you know what? I'm going through a challenge or whatever, I'd be like, hey, you know what? You know, I'm big on accountability. So someone would come to me as they say, hey, you know what? You know, I'm having this issue or that issue. I'm like, okay. I was like, you know, can you make me whole next time? Or someone would say, hey, you know, I had a mechanical issue with the car and I had to get it fixed, so I couldn't make it work. So I was very considerate to the plight that people had. But ultimately, it kind of made some challenges because the same kind of understanding that I had, like, the finance companies didn't have that same level of understanding for me. And so I realized that I think when it came to personality type, I think the opportunity was good. But a couple things. First of all, I think I just don't think my personality fit for the business. Second thing was that when it came to work, life balance, there was very little because I worked so much there. And then also there were some costly mistakes that were made because I didn't know the business. I didn't know anybody who was in the car business. So the original model for opening a car dealership, going back many, many years ago, was that you would buy a car. And the hope was that you bought a car where if you got someone to make a down payment, it almost covered the entire cost of the vehicle. So that particular point, if they never came back again, you were pretty much whole. But as time went on, it was getting harder and harder to find vehicles that someone could come down and make a down payment that would basically cover the initial price of that car. And so you always find yourself being in more and more of a deficit because people couldn't make those larger down payments. So it was kind of challenging there.

[Mindy Jensen]

So if you didn't have a lot of car dealership experience, why did you choose car dealership to open as a business to open?

[Nick Johnson]

Because I literally, as I sat down, I kind of looked at everything that I felt like was almost a necessity where I was as far as I feel like having a car was a necessity. Number two, I went through. I did do like. There was actually some courses that I took prior to doing it, and I kind of went through some of the courses. I was like, okay, I feel like I understand this pretty good. And so at that particular point, I feel as though I had a reasonable amount of understanding of the business to get into it. So I went ahead and did that. There were some other things I looked at. I feel as though that the margins were a little too thin. Like, I didn't want to do something like opening a car wash and some of the other stuff like that. So I was like, you know, I was like, I want something where they had residual income. And really the car dealership is what really interests me about the residual income. Along with. That's why I contemplated real estate also.

[Mindy Jensen]

That's funny that you said you didn't want to open a car wash. Carl and I drive past a car wash near us, and every bay is filled with people behind it waiting to get in. It's like the spray it yourself, stick your credit card in there. I'm like, maybe we should open up a car wash.

[Nick Johnson]

Yes, those are good. I would take one of those, like the kind of manual, hey, pull up like me with the bucket and the sponge. No, I can't do that. But yeah, but the bays. Absolutely. Those are a good model.

[Mindy Jensen]

My dear listeners, I am so excited to announce that we now have a Bigger Pockets Money newsletter. If you would like to subscribe, go to biggerpockets.com moneynewsletter all right, we'll be right back after this.

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[Mindy Jensen]

Welcome back to the show. So how long did you own this dealership?

[Nick Johnson]

My wife and I, we had this dealership for red at a year.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh.

[Nick Johnson]

So I got into it and we were feverishly going at it. And me being financially minded, I did keep up with the books, and I kind of noticed how things started to go in the wrong direction. And so things kept going and things kept going. In around a year, we had literally gotten to the point where we were almost at zero. And I went to my, yeah, yeah, Carl, we almost at zero. And I remember I was getting ready to pin a check to the mortgage company. I was like, well, I was like, well, I know I got this month and I wrote it and I said it and I went back to my wife and I told my wife. I was like, baby, I was like, I don't know if this is going to continue to work out. My wife, being the person that she is, she's like, okay, well, she's like, well, what are we going to do next? And I literally, I told her, I was like, hey. I was like, like, I told you, Carl, we got it once, we can get it twice. But the thing is that now we have experience and knowledge based on what we did. And so we know what things don't work. And even if you don't know everything that will work your head when you know what won't work. And so we just literally went and said, okay, well, what do we want to do? I did realize that, you know, the type of business was important, who you went to business with. Cause you want to make sure that the team that you have around you has the same drive that you have. So it's a lot of things that we learned kind of in that experience that we could use moving forward. And from that particular day, I said, okay, let's get it. And so. And this is the. This is the truth. I remember we stopped, we had vehicles that were out. And I literally, I just told the people, like, hey, literally, I told them to keep them. I was like, I was so over it. I was like, keep them. And I mean, me and my wife actually went back and we, like, ran the numbers at one point to figure out, like, just how much we felt like we ate during that business. And we ate about probably $150,000 in our business. But I was like, back in 2003, 2004, I mean, we did it, but we had to, like, keep moving forward. So we just had to, you know, keep marching. So that's what we did.

And so just to be clear, you lost about 150,000 on the business, but you also lost money because you weren't working your W2. And was your wife working at the time or was. Did she quit as well?

Yeah, fortunately, my wife. My. My wife reflects in between doing the dealership, and she was an adjunct professor, so she would still, you know, do some teaching online and in afternoons sometime. But I was doing the. The dealership full time, so I wasn't getting W2. Also, I lost from the money that we pulled out the market because we cashed out on our 401ks. So the opportunity growth on that money was gone and everything else that we had. So, yeah, I don't want to do it.

I'm pulling up a calculator right now.

Oh, man. It was 2004, so pretty much the entire year. 2004.

Okay, 2004 for 150,000. I'm going to. I'm going to go for it. I won't say the number if you don't want to hear it.

It's all right. You can do it. And I won't go on suicide watch. It's okay.

Okay. It's taken a long time to think about it, so it must be a.

Pretty big number with all the zeros, I'm sure.

[Mindy Jensen]

Remember, you would have lost a lot in 2008.

[Nick Johnson]

Yeah, I would have. That's one thing. The solace. And that's what I think about real estate piece. I like, even if I would have did real estate, I probably would have lost my shirt then, too. Cause when the market crashed, you know, eight. So I'm like, like, either way, I probably would have got served depending on.

[Mindy Jensen]

How you structured that business. But, okay, so. So, okay, you shutter the dealership. What's your next step?

[Nick Johnson]

I often tell people, the quickest 10 years you'll ever see is from 20 to 30. At that point, I was at the backside of 30, and I was like, okay. I was like, I got to ramp it up. So first thing I was like, I need to start getting some money coming in. The quickest way for me to get money coming in. At that point, I had my. I had my bachelor's in computer science. So I was like, I can go be a substitute teacher. They always need substitute teachers. So literally, I went and I started being a Substitute teacher. I know it was like, no lines, no waiting. So I went there and I started doing that as I was looking for employment back into the computer film. So I did that for. I probably did that for around six months, six, seven months, until I was able to get full time employment, be a. Being a computer programmer. Programmer again. One thing I did, I always appreciated teachers, but I got an even better and greater appreciation for them once I subbed for a while. So I did that, I did that. I got W2 employment again. And then when I got my W2 employment again, I was thinking about, okay, how can I generate more revenue? Because at this particular point, the coffers were empty. We were, you know, we were sustaining. But I was like, okay, I was like, how can I go back, try to make ourselves whole? And how can we get to the point where we can go ahead and start trying to get to where we're just not making it, that we're actually able to start back investing and doing things like that? And so my wife was an adjunct professor. So what happened is that they had a program at the university where that a spouse could get 50% off tuition. So I was like, okay, I was interested in teaching and being an adjunct professor as well, but I didn't have a graduate's degree. But I was like, you know what? This would be a good opportunity for me to be able to be an adjunct professor as well if I can go get my graduate's degree. And so I went and I, using the program that they had, along with the tuition reimbursement that my employer had, it really allowed me to really get my graduate degree at no cost. Because the way they had it structured is that they didn't do a lot of. It wasn't a lot as far as reimbursement. I think it was like around 6 or $7,000 a year, but it was based on calendar year. So in my head I knew it was like, okay, it's about two years for me to get my graduate degree. If I start like in June of one year and have it roll over the calendar year to the next calendar year, I can kind of get like two years in one year. So that's literally what I did. And so I got my graduate degree. I think I may have paid like maybe 3, $4,000 out of pocket for my graduate degree at that point. And when I get my graduate degree, Carl, you probably know this. There aren't a lot of people in the IT field that have graduate degrees in it.

Some don't have Any degree?

Yes. Some don't at all. So it was fertile ground for me to be able to get a lot of teaching assignments. I mean, I had. At one point, I had five universities that brought me on as adjunct professor at that time. And I was literally cycling in and out different terms. You know, sometimes I was working my full time W2, and I was doing like, maybe adjunct, you know, being adjunct, like maybe one or two universities a semester at the same time. Just trying to get that money up to make up for like, you know, kind of some of the time that we had lost.

I'll back up a second. Nick, have you ever read that book Rich Dad, Poor Dad?

Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

It kind of annoyed me a little bit because he makes. And funny enough, I didn't even realize you were a professor before I started to have this thought. But he kind of makes fun of his supposed dad who was a college professor, because that guy was a loser. He'd never become financially independent. So you have to own a business, you have to do this thing. And I don't like that attitude because you can become thigh just fine by having a normal job. It might not be quite as sexy, it might not be quite as exciting, it might take you a little bit longer, but it's certainly attainable. And you were the poor dad for Richard Kiyosaki. Is that the guy's name? Richard Kiyosaki. Robert Kiyosaki. I always mess that up. So you could stick it, Robert.

Robert definitely can. And my thing is that, you know, there wasn't as many. It wasn't like the gig economy like it is now. And so I was like, okay. I was like, how can I kind of sit there? And it allowed me the opportunity. Cause all those. Most of the universities I taught it were remote online. So it allowed me the opportunity to kind of, you know, work into the wee hours of the morning. And so literally, I did this for a series of years. I probably did around maybe between my W2 and adjuncting, I probably did it for like around three, four years. And I had to stop calls. One of the things other than burnout, I know the cost of tuition for college. And if I ever. I said this to myself, if I ever got to the point where I felt like I couldn't give my students 100%, I will stop. And so it really got to the point where I was like, you know what? I was like, I'm getting tired. I'm getting burned out. We're getting to a point where our finances are kind of beyond where we were before. We had a situation with the dealership. So let's kind of go ahead and pull back. Let's try to enjoy some of our time together and stop grinding so hard.

What are you doing right now?

What am I doing right here now? My life after Fi, we fied, and we hit Fi in 2022, so that's what he is. So as far as I found out about the fire community in 2020, and somehow or another, I was. I don't know exactly how I end up crossing it. I just remember seeing a podcast. They talked about how you can invest in your HSA. I was like, you can invest your HSA. I was like I didn't know that. And then, like, it sent me down like this. This. This. This rabbit hole. And I, like, binged on just about every episode of Choose Fi. And then they talked about, you know, the local groups and, like, all this other stuff. And I met a local group, and I got connected with them so that in 2020, and I was talking with my wife, and I was like, man, I was like, you know, I was like, you know, all that we've been doing, I was like, it's a. It's a name for it. And I think we're almost there. And I kind of explained to her some of the stuff and whatever, and my. My wife has always been extremely supportive to me, and so she's like, okay, well, you know, let's kind of go over the numbers. Let's talk about it. And I talked about, like, I think in a couple years, you know, if everything kind of keeps going the right way, we'll get there. So in 2022, we hit, you know, our fine number. In 2023, my wife came to me and she said, hey, you know what? I think it'd be kind of cool if I know you want to stop working. But she's like, I think I want to stop, too. And so I was like, that's fine. So in 2023, my wife completely stepped away from being a professor at the university. And in 2024, I stepped away from my W2 job right now. As far as what life looks like for me, life is good. I can't lie. You know, if someone would have told me back when I was flipping a sign over at that dealership that some 19 years later, I would have kind of, you know, the life where I can kind of do what I want to and go how I want to. I don't know if I would have believed him. But at the same Time. You know, there is something to be said, you know, when it comes to consistency and just really trusting the process. And so now I'm able to sit here. We volunteer a lot at our kids schools. We. We go to the gym, like, four or five times out the week now. You know, we never thought we'd be gym rats, but we go to the gym a lot. We have the ability now. We. We meet up with a lot of people who are in our FI community and we're fortunate. And literally, this is how it looks this past Tuesday. It's a group of us, you know, a five group, and we are like kind of like the lunch bunch and the happy hour crew. We don't really pay a full price for anything. And so we're at. We're at Topgolf because Topgolf is always 50% off on Tuesdays. So we're sitting there, we're talking about how we're going to leave from there and go get $3 tacos because, you know, it's Taco Tuesday. And we're discussing about kind of like how we have, like, this ownership of our time and how grateful that we are that we have the community because we would be so alone if we didn't have no kind of the camaraderie that we get in the community. So we spend a lot of time community doing that. And also right now, we're just trying to spread, evangelize financial independence. And so right now I have a. I have a podcast that I do on. Well, I have a show which is called Everyday Money Heroes, where I go out. And the goal of that is to provide information and inspiration to people of all ages to take control of their financial journey. And that's really what it is. And so literally, we talk about, you know, kind of the fundamentals of Phi, but also, you know, I try to spotlight people's stories who are not, you know, who might be a college professor, who might, you know, be a worker at a factory, but they're just, you know, they stay disciplined, they're living below their means, and they're just investing the difference and they're getting ownership of time back. And that's really what it's all about. So I'm thankful that I have the FI community that I trust the process because I didn't know anybody who did. But at the same time, you know, anybody can achieve that and you can just have a life. Well, live. People look at me and they just like, there's no way. There's like, you're not 65. You can't be retired. I was like, well, I was like, you don't have to be 65 to retire. I was like, you can have time ownership at any point, you know, if you really have the ability to really stay disciplined. So hopefully I answered your question, Carl, but it really excites me because I, I know that. I feel like if anybody can just understand just the, the concept that you can do it, I think they'll be more empowered.

[Mindy Jensen]

We have to take one final ad break and we'll be back with more after this.

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[Mindy Jensen]

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[Nick Johnson]

Just one quick comment. I'm so you hit on this real strongly. So I'll just mention in passing, the the community part of it is so vitally important because like for us, we just it was kind of the Exact same thing for us. Our five story. We had all this money, and we just thought we were saving, but we had no idea what we were going to do with it. Then I discovered Mr. Money Mustache. I ran out to the kitchen, told Mindy about it. She's like, yes, it sounds great. So, side note, very thankful to have a spouse who understands and embraces us, too. What a gift we both have. That's just incredible.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes. What a gift you both have.

[Nick Johnson]

Yes. Yes. He who finds a wife finds a good thing.

Yes. But if we didn't have this community to build on all that, I think we'd feel a little bit lost. It's nice to be able to like here. We're in Colorado, Lots of hiking, lots of outdoorsy stuff, and we have a hiking group that goes out on Thursdays. We have a potluck that meets on Tuesdays. And many of the people in these groups are from the FI community. So what's the point of having all this money if you can't have fun with it? And I think at the core of building a fun, fulfilling life is having good people. And I consider myself a pretty severe introvert. Most people scare me. So for that to come from me is pretty big.

[Mindy Jensen]

I want to underscore what Carl is saying. Having the community is so important. And, you know, Nick, what you said about the Choose Phi local groups, Brad Barrett, that was the best thing you ever did besides, you know, the podcast and the main group and all the other things. Great that you've done. But the local groups are so fantastic. Carl and I travel and we'll go to an area that has a local group, and we'll jump into the group and just say, hey, we're gonna have a meetup. You know, we'd love to meet local people here, but when you don't have that community, when you are the only frugal weirdo in the neighborhood, you kind of start to feel like, oh, maybe this isn't the right thing. Or you think, I know I want to do this, but I feel so out of place. And you, you know, you do retire, you start reaching out to your friends, and they're all like, what do you mean? On Tuesday at noon, I gotta work. And having this. This FI community. What did you call them? Your. Your phi, your lunch bunch, and your. Your happy hour heroes.

[Nick Johnson]

Yes, it's. It's the lunch bunch. You know, we do happy. We're happy hour heroes and lunch bunch. You know, that's what we do. We do not believe in paying full price on Food down here in Jacksonville. So, you know, if you get apps on your happy hour menu, we will find you. We will find you.

[Mindy Jensen]

These local groups are everywhere. And if for some reason you live in a place that doesn't have a local group yet, you can email bradoosefi. And he will set one up for you. He just wants to have these continue to grow and continue to be supportive of the community. So please, please, please reach out to Brad if you don't have a local group. But first go to choosefi.com local and see if there's a local group near you, because there probably is. There's. What is there like 586 or something like that? They're everywhere. They're all across the world. They're not just in America too. But yeah, I think that's, that's such an awesome part of your story is just having people to connect with that speak your same language. So, Nick, I want to know. We kind of jumped from 2004 a little bit and then all of a sudden 2022, what were you investing in to get yourself to financial independence? Both the type of investment and the type of account that you were putting the money into.

[Nick Johnson]

Okay, that's a great segue, Mindy, because one thing I did want to do, I would be remiss if that, if I did not give a shout out to bigger pocket. All right, so, and this is, this is where it goes. So remember I kind of hit that, that fork in a road where I would go either car dealership or real estate. Right. I did eventually put the car in reverse and go up the real estate lane. And so what ended up happening is that, you know, the bubble happened. Real estate went down. We did have our home. We had gotten to a point where we were getting ready to build a new home. We had bought some land, we were going to build a new home. But we had our, our, our starter home or our first home and we had lost so much equity, we're like, we're not going to it now. I was like, so we might still keep. So we decided to be accidental landlords. And so we didn't know a whole lot about the business. And I stumbled upon bigger pockets and so I started going through there and once again binged on that and started hanging out in the forums and stuff like that. So back in 2016, we actually like kind of started our first rental then in 2016. So kind of using some of the know how knowledge that we had from bigger pockets, from that particular point, we acquired a Couple more rentals. We didn't want a large portfolio at this point. We have four rentals, single family rentals. We do that. So that's part of our portfolio as far as we do that. Then also we have just retirement accounts, taxable brokerage accounts. So basically that's how we did it. We started off, we got to the point we were able to start maxing out those 401ks. Then we got to the point where we would max out the 401ks and we will max out the HSAs. They will max out, you know, the Roths. And we just kind of did that every year. Then we got to the point where we started maxing all those out. We started putting our money into just kind of VO and VTI and all the other stuff and just continued to do that. So that was it. So right now at this particular point, we're probably about 50, 50 when it comes to value, when it comes to our brokerage accounts, retirement accounts in equity and real estate.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that story so much because what I'm hearing you say is you're not in the middle class trap, which is what Scott Trench and I call the scenario where you've done everything right. You're, you're contributing to your retirement accounts, you are building up your home equity or paying down your mortgage, and then you get to retirement or early retirement age, you're like, I'm a millionaire on paper. You can't actually access those funds because they're stuck in your home equity or they're stuck in your retirement accounts and you can't access them before age 59 and a half or, you know, in some cases, 55. So I love that you skip that. I love that you're not falling victim to this by contributing to after tax accounts as well. So anybody watching who has not started contributing to their after tax accounts yet, now is the time to start doing that. Yes, it's a balance between, oh, do I want the tax deduction versus do I want to be able to potentially retire early? So take into consideration how old you are, take into consideration what age you want to retire, but you don't want to find yourself in this middle class trap and saying, oh, now what?

[Nick Johnson]

Yeah, just kind of piggyback what you were saying, Mindy. I had heard individuals before me say, hey, you know what, I went really hard on my retirement accounts, but I didn't do a whole lot to kind of bridge the gap, you know, in between or even they start to do no stuff like Roth conversions. All the other stuff like, we still need some living funds someplace. And so that's what really got me into, okay, you know, let's get this stuff inside of a brokerage account. Now, I don't like, you know, having to pay the taxes on the stuff that's outside of the retirement accounts, but, you know, it is what it is, so it allows me an opportunity to pull off that stuff if I need to as I'm kind of transitioning and working those other buckets.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love it. I. Whoever said gave you that information, spot on. Very well done, sir.

[Nick Johnson]

Could have been you all. I. I taken a lot of your contest, so it could. It could have been you all.

I'll take credit for it. Sure.

Yeah, absolutely. Mr. 1500, you know, gave me that sage advice.

[Mindy Jensen]

Nick, thank you so much for your time today. This was so much fun. Remind me again where people can find you online.

[Nick Johnson]

Thank you all as well. Carla, Mindy, folks who want to keep up with what I'm doing in my life after five, I can be found at Everyday Money Heroes on YouTube and all other platforms. I'm just excited to spread the good news that, you know, life is Life after five is what you would think it is and more so. Absolutely. I look forward to seeing everybody there. And once again, thank you all for the opportunity to come here and share my story.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, thank you so much, Nick. And if you like this video, please click the thumbs up. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel for more videos just like Nick's.

[Nick Johnson]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Life After Fire. And with that, Mindy and I say goodbye.