Podcast Summary

Podcast: BiggerPockets Money Podcast
Episode: Proof You Don't Need a High Salary for FIRE (Teacher Retires at 50)
Date: November 21, 2025
Host(s): Mindy Jensen (A), Scott Trench (B)
Guest: Andrew Lumen (C), Music Teacher, Private School

Episode Overview

This episode showcases the inspiring financial independence story of Andrew Lumen, a private school music teacher on the verge of retiring early at age 50—without the benefit of a pension. Hosts Mindy and Scott dig into Andrew’s journey, highlighting the strategies, mindsets, and incremental steps he and his family took to make FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) possible on two teacher salaries in a high cost-of-living area. The episode aims to prove that achieving FIRE isn’t just for high earners or tech workers, but possible even in traditionally lower-paid professions with conscious strategy and real estate savvy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Andrew’s Early Money Mindset

• Discovery of FIRE: Andrew was introduced to the FIRE movement in 2018 after a friend sent him a New York Times article about Vicki Robin. That night, he pored over his tax returns, seeking to understand his financial position and realizing for the first time that early independence could be possible.
  Quote:

  “Somewhere between reading [the article] and later that night, I had all my tax returns spread out … trying to calculate everything I’d ever made… I just thought this was a different way for me to frame the future for myself.” — Andrew, [01:08]

• Career & Values: Andrew and his partner both chose teaching for the time flexibility it gave them and their kids, valuing time over a high income.
  Quote:

  “Even before the financial independence movement took hold of us, we’ve been about time over money. That was a conscious choice… I want to be around for my kids. Teaching was one of those things.” — Andrew, [03:10]

Initial Financial Position

• Starting Point: Nine years ago, Andrew’s family had a net worth of ~$200,000 (mostly in investments) on a household income of ~$50,000, living in a high-cost area near Boston.
  Quote:

  “Teachers don’t make a ton of money. When I started this journey, I was a full-time sub making maybe $40k, and we’d managed to accrue about $200k net worth.” — Andrew, [04:21], [05:37]

• Early Decisions: Small employer matches, buying a house post-2008 crash, and living modestly shaped their foundation.
  • “That was just us plugging away… not knowing what our stuff was invested in, but doing it.” — Andrew, [06:59]

The FIRE Shift: Mindset & Strategy

• Mindset Evolution:
  • Before FIRE: Cautiously frugal, time-oriented, creative pursuits, not focused on maximizing earnings.
  • After FIRE discovery: Became highly intentional, tracking every dollar, seeking incremental improvements, reframed possibilities (“a big switch flipped”).
  • Quote:

    “I felt like we’d crossed a bridge. It became like almost an evangelical moment where you want to tell everybody… this is possible!” — Andrew, [16:15]

• Budgeting & Savings Rate:
  • Aggressively increased savings rate—eventually up to 65%—by cutting expenses and strategically increasing income through real estate.
  • Savings optimization was incremental (“aggregation of marginal gains”): moved money to high-yield accounts, maximized tax-advantaged accounts, and focused on living below means.

    “The deeper we got into the journey, the more it became a reality… at one point, we got up to almost a 65% savings rate, which is huge.” — Andrew, [15:58]

• Living Arrangements & Real Estate:
  • Leveraged creative housing hacks. The family partnered with another teacher couple to buy and fix up their first multi-unit home, living together before splitting profits and buying their own properties.
  • Now live in one unit of a three-unit home, with rental income offsetting mortgage and living costs.

    “No way we would be able to stay in this area as two teachers in a high cost of living area without our multi-unit. It just would not have been possible.” — Andrew, [16:15]

Real Estate: The Unsung FIRE Superpower

• Context:
  • Hosts note that nearly every moderate-income early retiree on the podcast leverages some kind of housing hack or real estate strategy—an approach frequently met with resistance but extremely effective.

    “Sorry YouTube commenters, this is it. This is the largest expense in your life… I don’t know how people in high cost areas can do it without something like this.” — Scott, [20:39]

Practicalities of Living Small & Side Hustles

• Intentional Choices:
  • One-car household, four-day work weeks, part-time teaching, prioritizing family and creative time.
  • Side Hustles: Real estate agent, private music lessons, wedding photography, editing photos—all coordinated to suit his flexible schedule.

    “I’ve worked mostly four days a week… I wanted to have a day to regroup, do things for myself and the family. My partner’s worked part-time most of her life as well.” — Andrew, [22:57] “I made a lot more money per hour as a wedding photographer than as a teacher, without a doubt.” — Andrew, [27:08]

The Practice of Money

• Skill Development Parallels:
  • Andrew likens financial independence to practicing music—a process requiring continuous incremental improvement, not a single event.

    “The practice of music is what we’re trying to get to, and I think the practice of money is what it’s more about. Not everyone who’s wealthy is financially independent, but everyone who practices money well can become financially independent.” — Andrew, [30:14]

Portfolio Construction & Withdrawal Approach

• Investing Approach:
  • Majority in low-cost total stock market index funds (Vanguard), smaller allocations in 403b, Roth IRAs, brokerage, and a well-used HSA (“triple tax advantage”).
  • Rental property is a key part of the portfolio and future cash flow.
• Asset Allocation and Liquidity:
  • About 60-70% stocks, the rest in rental real estate (lightly leveraged, high equity), larger emergency fund for multi-unit repairs.
  • Uses the HSA creatively—pays medical bills out of pocket, allowing the HSA to grow as a supplemental “emergency fund.”

    “I recently added up all of our bills from HSA, and we have almost exactly the same as in our HSA right now. So we could theoretically take all the money out today because we have the bills.” — Andrew, [46:55]

• Withdrawal Rate:
  • Plans a conservative 5% withdrawal rate due to flexibility—can downshift to part-time work, has rental income, or can draw on HSA/Roth IRAs as needed.
• Risk Tolerance:
  • Comfortable remaining 100% allocated to stocks, values simplicity and long-term growth over complicated asset strategies.

    “The only reason I obsess over money is because I don’t want to have to think about it… I’ve learned enough and set the wheels in motion.” — Andrew, [39:23]

• Host’s Portfolio Analysis:
  • Scott highlights that with real estate being “bond-like” in stability, Andrew’s allocation justifies higher equity exposure.

    “The real estate component can be thought of almost like as bond-like in its very lightly leveraged state… that justifies a pretty high concentration in stocks.” — Scott, [44:13]

Life After Financial Independence

• Teaching with Optionality:
  • Having achieved FI, Andrew reflects on whether to continue teaching, possibly at reduced hours, emphasizing that the mindset and process of getting there have brought meaning, not just the arrival.

    “Knowing I have the ability to retire changes my outlook. I’m looking at [teaching] now in a light of, what do I really want out of this?” — Andrew, [35:41]

• Balance Between Now and Later:
  • The family prioritized “living in the now” with meaningful experiences (like biennial trips to Europe) while still saving aggressively for the future.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “[FIRE] gave me a picture that was different than I had ever expected.” — Andrew, [01:08]
• “Nine years ago, I think we had about $200,000 as our net worth … on a salary of $50,000 total household income, I didn’t really think it was possible.” — Andrew, [05:37]
• “We decided to go further…at one point, we got up to almost a 65% savings rate, which is huge.” — Andrew, [15:58]
• “We bought with another set of teachers…one house together to buy our first home, spent two years working on it and fixing it up so that we could sell it and then split the profits.” — Andrew, [16:15]
• “We’ve been a one car family our whole life. That’s been a hard thing. My friend’s like, how do you do that? Well, it takes some maneuvering.” — Andrew, [30:14]
• “Money is a process … the hard thing is the practice, practicing it over time like learning music.” — Andrew, [30:14]
• “We’re living in the moment as we’re doing it on purpose, not trying to just hold back and withhold the whole time. We’ve traveled…we just went to Europe … every two years.” — Andrew, [36:41]
• “The only reason I do this is because I don’t have to think about it… I’ve learned enough and we have now set the wheels in motion where I don’t have to think about it.” — Andrew, [39:23]

Key Timestamps

• Discovering FIRE Movement: [01:08]
• Starting Net Worth & Salary, Early Money Habits: [04:21]-[05:37]
• Initial Real Estate Approach (multi-unit & house hack): [16:15]
• Hitting a 65% savings rate: [15:58]
• Frugality & Career Flexibility (four-day weeks, side hustles): [22:57], [27:08]
• Money as Skill/Practice—Music Analogy: [30:14]
• Portfolio Construction, Asset Breakdown: [36:41], [41:37]
• Cash, HSA, and Withdrawal Strategies: [46:55]

Memorable Moments

• Teachers Buying a House Together:
  • Andrew describes the creative leap of purchasing a single-family (legally multi-unit) house with another couple, living together for two years to build equity (“people thought we were crazy” — [16:15]).
• Savings Rate Spike:
  • The moment when rental income surpassed their mortgage, allowing for massive savings rate increases.
• Living in High-Cost Boston—Why Real Estate Was Essential:
  • Hosts and Andrew both acknowledge that without house hacking via real estate, achieving FIRE as teachers in an expensive metro would have been impossible.

Final Reflections & Takeaways

• Anyone Can Do This With Intentionality:
  • The journey is less about extreme earnings and more about creative solutions, conscious spending, and asset leverage.
  • Real estate, side hustles, and living intentionally (even four-day workweeks and one-car living) all play a part.
• Mindset Over Money:
  • Consistency, education, and viewing financial independence as an ongoing “practice” are key.
• Enjoying the NOW While Preparing for the FUTURE:
  • Andrew and his family didn’t deprive themselves of experiences while pursuing FIRE.
• Flexible Independence:
  • FIRE is not necessarily about quitting work, but gaining the power of choice.

Guest Contact

• Andrew Lumen: cadenceofcash.com — writing about music, money, and finding the rhythm of what matters most.

In Summary:
Andrew’s story explodes the myth that only high earners or those with traditional pensions can achieve early financial independence. Through intentional living, continuous learning, skillful real estate use, and a commitment to quality of life (not just the grind), the Lumens crafted a path that is inspiring, practical, and above all, replicable for motivated listeners.

End of Summary