Scott and Virginia Trench Talk Goal Setting, Spending, Prenups, and Future Plans

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast: Scott and Virginia Trench on Goal Setting, Spending, Prenups, and Future Plans

Episode Overview: In this engaging episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, Mindy Jensen hosts an insightful conversation with Scott and Virginia Trench. The episode delves deep into their financial journey, exploring topics such as goal setting, spending habits, prenuptial agreements, and future financial plans. Through candid discussions and personal anecdotes, the Trench duo offers valuable lessons on achieving financial independence and maintaining a healthy financial partnership.

---

1. Introduction to Scott and Virginia Trench

The episode kicks off with Mindy Jensen introducing Virginia Trench, Scott’s wife and a pivotal figure in his financial journey.

• Virginia’s Perspective on BiggerPockets:
  “BiggerPockets has a goal of creating 1 million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting.”
  (00:45)

• Mindy’s Warm Welcome:
  “Virginia, I am so excited that you are joining us today. Welcome to the show.”
  (00:57)

---

2. Early Financial Dynamics and Frugality

Scott and Virginia discuss the early days of their relationship, highlighting Scott’s frugality and its impact.

• Virginia on Scott’s Frugality:
  “Frugality takes on another level when you don't heat your apartment in January in Denver, which is when we started dating. That was a red flag for me.”
  (02:07)

• Scott’s Admission:
  “This is not an all-overtwist situation. This was very much self-inflicted.”
  (02:46)

The couple reflects on how Scott’s cautious spending was initially a concern but later aligned with their shared financial goals.

---

3. Embracing Financial Independence Together

Virginia shares her transition from teaching middle school English to embracing Scott’s financial independence (FI) philosophy.

• Virginia’s Journey:
  “I was very impressed by Scott's commitment to it and intrigued when he started telling me about it.”
  (04:02)

• Impact on Spending Habits:
  “We have really had to come to terms with the amount of like Amazon spending, Doordash spending things that... it would just balloon and be completely out of control.”
  (05:52)

The Trenches discuss the importance of tracking every dollar and how tools like Monarch have helped them gain control over their spending.

---

4. Combining Finances and Prenuptial Agreements

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to how Scott and Virginia combined their finances and the role of prenuptial agreements in their marriage.

• Prenup Decision:
  “We signed a premarital agreement... in order to be transparent and make things as equitable as possible.”
  (09:06)

• Virginia on Cultural Stigma:
  “There’s an undue cultural stigma attached to prenuptial agreements.”
  (10:40)

• Scott’s Perspective:
  “We just make sure we understand what the rules are in the event that this ever happens... and hopefully, we never need to review or look at the document again.”
  (10:57)

Their approach to prenuptial agreements underscores the importance of transparency and preparedness in financial planning.

---

5. Financial Planning Retreats and Goal Setting

Scott and Virginia emphasize the significance of regular financial check-ins and retreats to stay aligned with their goals.

• Virginia on Retreats:
  “It’s such a nice way to connect on a regular basis to make sure we’re on track for living the life that we wanna live.”
  (14:16)

• Frequency of Check-Ins:
  “We update it every quarter with very, with few exceptions.”
  (14:34)

• Setting Priorities:
  “Think about the habits and the goals that support what we ultimately want out of life.”
  (17:19)

The couple shares their structured approach to setting and revisiting goals, balancing professional, health, and personal aspirations.

---

6. Overcoming Financial Challenges Together

Mindy Jensen and the Trenches discuss the challenges they’ve faced in managing spending, especially with the rise of convenience-driven platforms like Amazon Prime and DoorDash.

• Virginia on Convenience Spending:
  “Convenience is a really slippery slope.”
  (08:24)

• Scott’s Acknowledgment:
  “BiggerPockets ballooned over this time period. I just feel like that’s congruent with the way that I do professionally and in my home life.”
  (07:46)

They candidly talk about how tracking expenses meticulously helped them curb unnecessary spending and maintain financial discipline.

---

7. Personal Anecdotes: Balancing Life and Finances

The episode lightens up with personal stories about baking mishaps, showcasing the human side of financial partnerships.

• Virginia on Scott’s Baking Attempt:
  “All of that is to say in a marriage, there are times... Do I wish and am I trying to make an effort to be more participating, participatory in our finances and how we... build a life together.”
  (34:54)

• Scott’s Humble Brag:
  “The important takeaway from all this is that the cake was awesome when it was done. I still need to work on icing.”
  (36:57)

These stories illustrate the balance between financial diligence and personal life, highlighting the importance of teamwork and mutual support.

---

8. Investment Decisions and Market Insights

A critical discussion revolves around Scott’s decision to sell a large percentage of his index funds, backed by historical market analysis.

• Virginia on Scott’s Research:
  “He started bringing out all the graphs and statistics and stuff. It’s like, oh, okay, here we go. Time to buckle down and listen to what he has to say.”
  (37:19)

• Scott’s Strategic Move:
  “We analyze what's for sale for investment properties and then look at what's actually sold. There are actually good deals moving... and that’s what came down for me.”
  (40:56)

Their conversation underscores the importance of informed decision-making and adaptability in investment strategies.

---

9. Final Thoughts and Future Plans

As the episode wraps up, Scott and Virginia share their excitement about future projects and continue to advocate for proactive financial planning.

• Virginia’s Upcoming Book:
  “It’s called Our Secrets Were Safe. It’s a sort of a juicy summer thriller. Comes out July 15th.”
  (17:44)

• Scott on Continuing Financial Goals:
  “Most quarters, most weeks and most days of our marriage, we've been applying some version of this imperfectly and tending to move towards the life we want.”
  (30:57)

Their commitment to ongoing financial education and goal-setting serves as an inspiring blueprint for listeners aiming to achieve financial freedom.

---

Key Takeaways:

1. Transparent Financial Planning:
   Combining finances and establishing clear agreements like prenups can foster trust and clarity in financial partnerships.

2. Regular Goal Setting:
   Frequent financial check-ins and retreats help maintain alignment on shared goals and adapt to changing circumstances.

3. Mindful Spending:
   Tracking expenses meticulously, especially in the age of convenience, is crucial for maintaining financial discipline.

4. Informed Investment Decisions:
   Deep research and understanding market trends are essential for making strategic investment choices.

5. Balancing Personal and Financial Life:
   Personal anecdotes highlight the importance of teamwork and mutual support in managing both finances and personal life harmoniously.

---

Notable Quotes:

• “Financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting.” – Virginia Trench (00:45)

• “If you don’t plan, then you're like, who is it? Aaron Lowry says you already have a prenup agreement.” – Mindy Jensen (11:46)

• “Progress over perfection, for sure.” – Virginia Trench (30:57)

• “The important takeaway from all this is that the cake was awesome when it was done.” – Scott Trench (36:57)

---

Conclusion:

Scott and Virginia Trench’s discussion offers a comprehensive look into the dynamics of managing finances within a marriage. Their emphasis on transparency, regular goal setting, mindful spending, and informed investing provides a roadmap for couples striving for financial independence. By sharing their personal experiences and strategies, the Trenches inspire listeners to take proactive steps in their financial journeys.

Whether you're newly married, navigating financial independence, or seeking ways to enhance your money management skills, this episode is a treasure trove of practical advice and heartfelt stories. Tune in to gain deeper insights and apply these lessons to build a financially secure and fulfilling life.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Ever wonder what Scott's duplex in his 20s was like? Or how frugal he really was? Well, today we are bringing on an expert and pivotal player in Scott's life and Scott's fi journey, his wife, Virginia Trench. I am so excited to talk with both Virginia and Scott about how their money story has evolved over time. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and and with me, as always, is my co host, Mr. Virginia Trent.

[Scott Trench]

That's right, Mindy. Super excited to be on BiggerPockets Money Today with my lovely, wonderful wife Virginia here. And Virginia is actually going to take it from here with the rest of the intro.

[Virginia Trench]

BiggerPockets has a goal of creating 1 million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you are starting.

[Mindy Jensen]

Virginia, I am so excited that you are joining us today. Welcome to the show.

[Virginia Trench]

Thanks, Mindy. It's great to be here. I've been entrenched in this guy's Life for almost 10 years.

[Scott Trench]

She has better puns than me. And many times the puns that we use on the show have actually originated from Virginia without. Due. Accredited. Yeah, due citation.

[Virginia Trench]

We'll let it slide.

[Mindy Jensen]

And hello to Fred the cat behind you, who is apparently going to horn in on your show today, Virginia. So, Fred, pipe down.

[Scott Trench]

Our daughter is at school. But we have Fred, Virginia, and our little one on the way here as well.

[Virginia Trench]

Almost everybody.

[Mindy Jensen]

Almost everybody is here. Well, that's awesome. Okay. And quite frankly, the. The other one is what, two now? So they're not known for being quiet.

[Virginia Trench]

No, she'd be.

[Scott Trench]

This would be a short episode. Yeah.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so let's go back to the beginning of your journey together. Scott was house hacking a duplex. Were you, like, what is your opinion of this? Because I saw that duplex that he was living in, so I. I know where you're coming from. What was your thought when you first met this guy?

[Virginia Trench]

Well, I thought, well, first of all, what a sweet, wonderful man. And second of all, you know, frugality takes on another level when you don't heat your apartment in January in Denver, which is when we started dating. That was red flag for me. But both Scott and Walker, it's funny how getting serious girlfriends timed almost exactly with the decision of, hey, maybe we'll spring for heat here.

[Mindy Jensen]

So I also agree with you. That is a red flag. I would walk in and be like, dude, it's way too cold in here. I'm out. But it's that he chose not to as opposed to his. He got turned off.

[Virginia Trench]

Oh yeah. This is not all over twist situation. This was very much self inflicted.

[Mindy Jensen]

At what point when you guys were dating did he bring up this concept of financial independence?

[Virginia Trench]

Gosh, you know, I don't remember. It's hard to pinpoint an exact moment when you brought it up, but I think it was just when as we were getting to know each other and at the time you were creating a lot of content in the fi universe that you would tell me about articles that you were working on or ideas that you had. So, gosh, like probably third or fourth date. I don't know.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, somewhere early on there.

[Virginia Trench]

Early on. Yeah.

[Mindy Jensen]

It was really near the beginning. Good. I like that. I was married before we discovered financial independence. So he like, he couldn't bring it up on a date. He didn't know what it was. Did you know anything about it before Scott shared it with you? Had you ever heard it?

[Virginia Trench]

No. I was so out of the whole world. I was at the time I was teaching middle school English, so that was kind of my entire universe. So I was a complete newbie novice and still am in so many ways. But it was. I was very impressed by Scott's commitment to it and intrigued when he started telling me about it.

[Mindy Jensen]

Was it a difficult change to make to go from however you were handling your finances before to this like, kind. I don't want to say extreme frugality. I don't think Scott was ever extremely frugal, although I say this. And then we just had that story about him not turning the heat on in January in Denver's got you crazy. But. But did like, did you make changes over time or was it kind of, oh, well, I guess I'm just going to like completely change the way that I handle my money.

[Virginia Trench]

Honestly, I was so frugal just by out of pure necessity, just with my job and what I was trying to accomplish at the time. If anything, it opened up my horizon to think about, oh, are we being frugal to achieve a specific goal down the line as opposed to are we being frugal just to survive on achie teacher's salary and my summer side hustle and all that stuff. So I was, I was very, very ready to be made a believer in Scott's philosophy.

[Mindy Jensen]

Did you have any big money disagreements? Let's call them disagreements.

[Scott Trench]

I don't. It wasn't a disagreement, but you know, I Remember one, maybe you could talk about how we were like, well, we don't want to live in the basement of the duplex, which then had heat anymore after the second or third year dating.

[Virginia Trench]

And oh, these weren't disagreements. It was just sometimes, you know, it's remarkable the blind spots that Scott can have. Sometimes it's like, well, we're looking to upgrade our living situation slightly. And wouldn't you know, the lease in the upstairs unit is coming due in a couple of months. And I went ahead and connected those dots and when, you know, we moved into another townhouse after that. But then we were thinking, okay, we could use a little more space. We're looking to grow our family, but we're not ready to commit to our forever home yet. What do we do? Like, well, the lease is coming due on the four bedroom apartment.

[Scott Trench]

I just like, I do this for a living, right? And I just like, couldn't process like, oh, money going into my business is more advantageous than money going out to somebody else. As a renter there I was like, I'm paying rent anyways. Why not go to this other place? And Virginia was like, scott, you're a moron with this.

[Virginia Trench]

I protest to use the word moron. I just gently pointed out that we had options. But to answer your question, Mindy, I think one point of shared frustration we have is now that we track our spending using Monarch is we have really had to come to terms with the amount of like Amazon spending, doordash spending things that we, I think were we not monitoring, it would just balloon and be completely out of control. And so I think about what, like a year or two ago, we decided we need to be really meticulous in tracking every dollar. And it was very eye opening. And I sometimes have to do like a breathing exercise before I sit down to categorize our Amazon spends.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, that's been a problem, I think for me in the last two, three years specifically as well, because as you know, the job with Biggerpockets, like Biggerpockets ballooned over this time period. Right. So when Virginia and I started dating, my title was director of Operations as an early employee at Biggerpockets. And then I became VP at bp. I was super proud of that and at that point. But Biggerpockets ballooned so much over the course of the following six, seven years after we started dating. And if there's anything that I can get from a convenience standpoint, I'm going to spend it right now because that if I'm not doing that Then am I. I'm either not having time with Virginia and Katie or I'm taking away from the job at Biggerpockets.

[Virginia Trench]

But.

[Scott Trench]

And that got a little out of control probably like the last, like two years ago, a year, year or two ago. And it's gotten much more under control now.

[Mindy Jensen]

I think Amazon prime is the worst, best invention ever because it's so easy to click. And I already paid for shipping, so I don't have to pay for shipping. I have a huge disconnect between buying something online and then it's like, hey, by the way, you have to pay for shipping. I'm like, I don't need that.

[Virginia Trench]

The indignity. What is this, 2002?

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, exactly. And it's always expensive shipping too. Like three or four dollars. I'm like, no, thank you. I'll just go over to Amazon and get that for free. I have shared a couple of times, at least on the show, when somebody is having a hard time getting a handle on their spending, I'm like, cancel Amazon Prime. See what happens.

[Virginia Trench]

Convenience is a really slippery slope.

[Mindy Jensen]

It really is. And door dash is not something I've ever done just because I am so cheap that I can't pay somebody to pick up my, my food. I would rather just go there.

[Scott Trench]

We don't have that problem, Mindy.

[Virginia Trench]

Not good for you. You can. It's hard to go back once you've again the convenience. Slippery slope. Just beware.

[Mindy Jensen]

So have you two combined your finances? I know you've been married for five years.

[Fred the Cat]

Yeah.

[Scott Trench]

Coming up on five.

[Virginia Trench]

I forgot.

[Scott Trench]

Four. Four and four and a half years.

[Virginia Trench]

Yeah, that sounds right. Sure, we'll. We'll say that. That's right. Yeah. We signed a premarital agreement. I want to say we were talking about this the other day about six months before our actual wedding. And at that point is when we combine finances.

[Mindy Jensen]

Ah, okay. So you combined before the wedding. That's interesting. And the, the prenup, was that your idea or was that Scott's idea?

[Scott Trench]

I think it was both around there.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, I love that. So I. Carl floated the idea when we were getting married a thousand years ago. He's like, hey, we should get a prenup. And I was like, no, if you ask me again, we're not getting married at all. I was so offended that he would say that. In my defense, we didn't have anything at all. Like we had, I don't know, a $0 net worth. And in fact, it turned out I had more money than he did, so I should have signed that prenup. But I think that we had an interview. Aaron Thomas from the Prenup Prescription. He wrote a book about prenups that changed my entire view on prenuptial agreements. And I thought it was. I think it's episode 301. I thought it was such a great episode. I love that you both are young and understanding that a prenup helps you in your marriage, in your, you know, protecting both of your positions even before you get married. You guys are way more mature than I am.

[Virginia Trench]

And I think that there's an undue cultural stigma attached to prenuptial agreements. And of course we want to be married for one. We joke, one life. But it was from mostly, you know, how do we be transparent? How do we make things, I don't know, as equitable as possible? And I don't know, it just seemed like it, like a no brainer.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, I think we didn't, you know, we didn't. It wasn't approached from the standpoint of like, this is, you know, going, you know, these are the things here. This is how it's going to be. Kind of, it was more just like, let's make sure we understand what the rules are in the event that this ever happens. What's Scott's property, what's Virginia's property, what's marital property there. And then hopefully we never need to review or look at the document again. And we know because we're married for one lifetime. I haven't looked at it since we somewhere maybe in our safety.

[Virginia Trench]

And I will add that this was also in line with. We did estate planning, we did our, you know, legal contingency plans for the care of our daughter. Just a lot of things that I think are, you know, nitpicky things that people don't like to think about. We were just, we just thought, why don't we knock this all out at once so we can go on with our lives?

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that. Knock it all out at once. It needs to be planned. If you don't plan, then you're like, who is it? Aaron Lowry says you already have a prenup agreement. It is the divorce laws of your state. If you want to direct them yourself, then you need to have this in place.

[Scott Trench]

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[Mindy Jensen]

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[Virginia Trench]

Oh, it's just, it's such a. It's. I don't know. This is gonna sound corny. It's one of my favorite things about our relationship. And it's such a nice way to connect on a regular basis to make sure we're on track for living the life that we wanna live. I think we did the first one on our honeymoon and we update it semi regularly.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, we update it every, every quarter with very, with few exceptions. Yeah. A handful of times we've missed it in a quarter or done in the middle of it or whatever.

[Virginia Trench]

Yeah. And occasionally Scott will bring up. Oh, I got another question from a BiggerPockets community member. How do I get my spouse on board with fi. How do I get my girlfriend to get on board with all these seemingly nutty ideas? And I really think that making sitting down and making a vision together, it's a great way to get on the same page and have a why behind the choices that you're making. And it is, it has been eerie how it has, it has worked out. Like I remember sitting down to do our vision and saying, okay, well sure, I'm going to try to write a book and maybe have some intellectual property to my name. And that all seemed like a pipe dream. And my first novel is coming out this summer. It was just wild the other day to finally be able to hold the book in my hands for the first time. And getting back to your question, Mindy, the vision is great, but the habits and the goals are better. They're so much more important. And it's a great. We try to hold each other accountable and it is noticeable when we're off track on our habits. Like, does this habit support what we ultimately want out of life? No. Do we need to be exercising more? Do we need to be checking our spending more? Am I happy at my job? Do I need to, you know, change up my approach to my day to day at work and so on and so forth. I could, I could ramble on this just as much as Scott.

[Mindy Jensen]

Well, no, I love that. I love that because we have frequently spoken to guests where he will say, oh, she's not on board. She doesn't want to talk about it. She says, just handle it all. Or she will say, I would love to get him on board. He's not interested. He won't even listen. He won't have these conversations. And having the money conversations, I think is so important because you just said the vision is great, but it's the habits and the goals that are even better. And you have an. I said annual, it's a quarterly financial check in. How frequently are you checking in on your habits and Goals weekly.

[Virginia Trench]

I'd say sometimes bi weekly.

[Scott Trench]

Weekly is the goal. Is the. Is what we try to do. I would say this year in like the last couple of months, we've been a little less diligent about that. But we've gone through stretches where I'd say we would have gone 20 weeks in a row.

[Virginia Trench]

And it is noticeable those with. I bet anything if we were to look back at those times like, oh, wow, that's when we got, yeah, this, this isn't this done. And that's when we were really happy and driving and stuff.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, wait, so you're saying frequent check ins with your partner to help you stay on track to meet your goals is a good thing. What a novel concept.

[Virginia Trench]

Yeah. It has to be mutual buy in though. My advice to anybody who's hesitant to talk about this, or maybe you were raised in a culture where money is a taboo subject. Once you rip the band aid off like it's. It becomes more. It will stay scary and unapproachable if you let it stay scary and unapproachable. But if you have honest conversations with your partner, it gets easier and easier and better and better with time.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. And you briefly showed us the book and then you didn't. Then you put it back down again. What is the name of this book?

[Virginia Trench]

It's called Our Secrets Were Safe. It's a sort of a juicy summer thriller. Comes out July 15th. It's about a group of friends who thought they got away with something but were very, very wrong about that. If you love sort of gone girl type books, it's very much in that vein. And yeah, I really credit in large part our super dorky goal setting process to getting this done and getting another book in the pipeline for 2026.

[Scott Trench]

The book will be published by Penguin Random House as well with that. So as part of a two book deal, Virginia will have another book coming out. Well in summer 2026 as well. So that was super exciting.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. I am very excited about that. I am. I have published two books. They were both of Biggerpockets Publishing. I turned them both in late, way late. One of them was written with Scott and his crazy schedule. My amazing ability, unparalleled ability to procrastinate led both of those books to be published late. So this goal setting and, you know, regular checking in is really, really helpful. What are some of the things that you talk about in goal setting? It sounds like there's money. It sounds like there's life stuff too. But what, what sort of things are you talking about?

[Virginia Trench]

Do you want to pull up the. We can consult our latest draft.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, do you have a document written down, Scott?

[Virginia Trench]

We sure do, Mindy.

[Scott Trench]

We save each version of it.

[Virginia Trench]

Oh, and it's so much fun. It's like a little memory book looking back at, you know, previous iterations of this. But usually we start by describing our home environment, what we want that to look like, what our data, what we'd like our day to day to look like.

[Scott Trench]

Well, we start, we start off with gratitude, so. And we'll list like 20 things that were just like. So. So I'm a big, I always push for this. Um, but we have to do this work when we're both in a really good mood, which typically involves a morning, kind of like late mid morning weekend or like vacation day where we've both worked out and then are on our first or approaching our second cup of.

[Virginia Trench]

Coffee at that point, 1,000%.

[Scott Trench]

And there's got to be like a view in the background that, that feels really important to us. It could be, it can be mountains, it can be a picnic. It doesn't have to be like an exception, like an expensive, lavish thing, but just has to be something that we are, that, that gets our juices going.

[Virginia Trench]

If you're trying to get your spouse or your significant other on board, think about where, when they would feel relaxed. If you have young children, maybe it's after the kids are in bed or you know, when you can give your undivided attention to something. I, I've been, you know, campaigning for years now to do this with a cocktail, but we've compromised with coffee. But basically a time where, you know, clear minded, you remove distractions and potential sources of stress and sit down with your partner.

[Mindy Jensen]

Well, I would also encourage one cocktail.

[Virginia Trench]

Yes, yes.

[Mindy Jensen]

One, not two. Or get a bottle of wine and split it over the course of several hours. Well, okay, that's another question. How long do you spend on your weekly check in and how long do you spend on your quarterly check in?

[Scott Trench]

They're about the same probably.

[Virginia Trench]

No way. Weekly check in takes 10 minutes. The quarterly check in takes half an hour minimum.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

[Mindy Jensen]

I would love to see this document, not your actual document, but like erase it, all the stuff and just see the, the way that you've set it up.

[Scott Trench]

I think, I think I did create a template version of it that was like, with some of the like a lot of the things like that were personal to us removed or whatever. But yeah, there's no like secret sauce to this this is not like a, like it's just a piece of paper. This is a word document that we fill out with gratitudes. And then we start, we say here's our, and for the example, the most recent one, here's our December 31, 2030 vision and here's our December 31, 2027 vision. So we start with the longer term one and then kind of bridge that to what. So here's what, here's what perfect looks like in five years. Right. And then here's what perfect looks like in three years.

[Virginia Trench]

If you're following, if you're, if we're trying to do a step by step. Step one gratitude list, that's always really fun to do and a great way to center the conversation. Step two, sort of begin with the end in mind, which is a great habit forming framework. Think. I don't know, you could do 10 years, you could do seven years, five years into the future. And be as descriptive as possible.

[Scott Trench]

And it's always a draf. Right. So there's no, there's like none of this is permanent and we actually update it every quarter. Like that's the, that's the ritual. So it probably took us maybe an hour the first time and now it's 30 minutes. But then, but then we always make a slight change, a tweak here or there. Hey, we want to travel a bunch. That kind of urge is smaller now. Let's not, let's, let's revise that component of this and do something and replace it with something else. That's awesome. Instead like a toy that we have.

[Virginia Trench]

That's so true. Having a. Introducing young children into our lives. Like we'll get back to the travel one.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah.

[Virginia Trench]

In a few years.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, but, but, and so that, that's, and so it probably it's moved a lot. Like if we were to start with Our first 11 1/2 years ago, we got married on our honeymoon. That would be. That one is, is very different than the one we have now, but it hasn't moved much in probably the last two years, two and a half years. Like they're pretty remarkably consistent now and we just keep trying to move closer and closer towards them.

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[Scott Trench]

Thanks for sticking with us.

[Mindy Jensen]

So you've got the setting, you've got your like I'm assuming that you revisit the most recent one that you did. Are you. You're checking in on your quarterly walk me through how this works.

[Virginia Trench]

Sure. So after we go through the five year, ten year vision, we hammer out a few more specifics, but we think about, okay, what are the top, what are my personal top three goals, the three biggest things I should be focusing on in my life in order to be working towards that vision so often. I mean, I'd say 90% of the time that shakes out to a professional goal, a health related goal, and one related to family, community and that sort of thing. When you say that. That's right.

[Scott Trench]

Yes.

[Virginia Trench]

Yeah. So once you define the big three, you think about, okay, how does that, what does that look like on a weekly basis? On a daily basis? What do I, what should I be focusing on then?

[Scott Trench]

Then we'll, we'll usually branch off from there and we'll each set our goal. Like here's the goals that we have jointly, but then we each set our goals and derivations of that. I use, that's where we start branching out a little bit. I use a journal that I've used for 10 years that's kind of like a cheesy self help journal in Virginia. Just switched over to one from Target for $12.

[Virginia Trench]

Those are great deals.

[Scott Trench]

She didn't order it online because we're not ordering as much stuff online anymore.

[Mindy Jensen]

You've learned already. Carl and I actually, this is kind of crazy that we're having this conversation right now. Carl and I just decided we had been setting some goals, like meeting every morning to have goal setting for the day. And that is very easy to fall by the wayside because it's so frequent. But also, you know, life just kind of jumps up in front of you. So we decided today that we were going to do this. And I really like having the different goals. It's not right now, it's just how are we going to get this house done? But professional goals, health goals, family and community goals, we're not really talking about those. So I like these different ideas.

[Scott Trench]

We pick three. We, or at least I do. I pick, I pick three big ones that are the most important for that because I, I can't get, you can't get all eight, you know, like these all, all these, these self help gurus have like these like eight Wheel of Life categories because like they're the right, that's the right way to do it. It's like how you doing each one of those? You can't ever prioritize all eight at once. I feel there's gotta be three priorities, one to three.

[Virginia Trench]

And I will say that, you know, we are rarely if ever perfect when we do these check ins. Like it is rare when we have a couple days in a row when we hit 100 across the board. Like this is very much a try, you know, try for it. But most days I'd say I, I average like 75, 80, 100 on like a great, really productive day when everything seems to be going well. But it's, it's very much like we try not, we're not too hard on ourselves. And I don't want to sound like we're super militant about this, but as long as you are trying like, that's when you start to see the results, in my opinion.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah. Most quarters, most quarters, most weeks and most days of our marriage, we've been applying some version of this imperfectly and tending to move towards the life we want, I think, and it's been wonderful.

[Virginia Trench]

Yeah. Progress over perfection, for sure.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah. Perfection is the enemy of progress. Okay, so, Virginia, looking back on your financial journey with Scott, is there anything that you would have changed?

[Virginia Trench]

I think one thing that I'm working on now that I should have worked on sooner is just more self education like I, I truly am. There are areas in, in our marriage where I'm the expert and areas where Scott is the expert, but I wish that I had taken more time to educate myself to be more of an active participant. And there, there are certainly still times, like it's tax season. Scott is handling that where just the sheer lopsidedness of our expertise makes it so much more efficient for Scott to just drive. And obviously we consult on everything but sort of be the decision maker. But yeah, I think that for so long I had a very fear driven relationship with, with money. And if I could go back and talk to my younger self, I would say, look, there's nothing to be afraid of. Like, just by avoiding something doesn't mean that you're gonna, you know, magically get any sort of result. Like, avoiding things never gets you what you want. So I think that'd be the thing I would change.

[Mindy Jensen]

I'm right there with you. I do zero percent of the taxes. If it was up to me to get the taxes done, I would gather up all of my stuff and take it to somebody to do them. And Carl is taking it to somebody to do them. But then he's got all of these, these records and all of everything that he's double checking against everything before he submits it to the accountant. And I'm perfectly happy to let him handle that because he's good at it. He. I don't know that enjoys is the right word to describe his, his feelings for it. But he doesn't hate it, and I would absolutely hate it. And he's done it for kind of our whole lives, so why would I want to deprive him of that toy? But also, like, it would take me so much longer to figure it out. Plus, one of us has a job and one of us doesn't, so he can take the time to do it as opposed to me sitting there taking all of the time to learn how to do it all when he's already done it for so long for sure.

[Virginia Trench]

It's like. And I. This might seem like a silly example, but I really. One thing I try to be loud about in my work is not devaluing the domestic work of women, but like if I were to send you to a grocery store and say we need groceries for the week to feed our little family of three, keeping in mind our toddlers likes and dislikes and just like, God, we're just really trying to get her to eat a vegetable every once in a while. It would take twice as long. The result would be terrible. And it's just more efficient and easier for me to just do it. Okay, one, one quick story. So Scott is so sweet. He said, virginia, for your birthday I'm going to make you a carrot cake. My favorite. And he goes to the store to get the necessary ingredients and he does not pick a beginner recipe. This is a New York Times hundreds of recipe comment, like very in depth. Get out the standing mixer from scratch. Recipe with high altitude modifications. Bless his heart. The recipe called for shredded coconut. Scott comes home with two whole coconuts. He's like, yeah, these are really expensive. Like you don't say that. The coconut supply in Colorado, I'm amazed you didn't get a good price. This is eggs first coconut snacks. What are you going to do? So he comes home with two whole coconuts and the recipe further called for shredded carrots. So he brought home unpeeled, like the bag of whole carrots. And I was just like, oh, honey, you know you can buy these things pre shredded, right? So back to the store. And so all that is to say.

[Scott Trench]

Well, I manually, I hand shredded the carrots, but the coconuts were, the coconut. It was just, it was untenable. It can't do it and they can't hammer it apart. And then you have to grate the coconut.

[Virginia Trench]

I didn't want to seem ungrateful. It was such a sweet labor of love making this cake, which was absolutely delicious, by the way. When you were done, I was very impressed. I didn't want to sound ungrateful, but I was just kind of like, what's your plan for these? We have a hammer in the garage. But what's the next step? All of that is to say I.

[Scott Trench]

Went out to the grocery store and got a bag of shredded coconuts and that solved the problem. I don't know that shredded coconuts come.

[Virginia Trench]

In bags in the baking aisle of almost any grocery store. But all of that is to say in a, in a marriage, there are times I think Kevin Hart said, this comedian is so funny. So there are times when you're singing lead and there are times when you're playing the triangle, and it's okay to shift those back and forth as necessary as you build a life together. Do I. Do I wish and am I trying to make an effort to be more participating, participatory in our finances and how we, you know, lever that to live the life we want? Yes. But does that mean I need to become. It's worth my time to become a tax expert or for Scott to go on the Great British Baking Show? Probably not. So that's where we are with that.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. I think our husbands are very similar, Virginia, because I have that same story, except it was when Carl was going to make a key lime pie. Meringue on the top. I don't know if you've ever made meringue. I would love to see Scott try to make meringue. Carl just kind of. He put the egg whites in a bowl and kind of gave him a bit of a stir and then poured it right on top of the cake. And he's like, does it just puff up in the oven?

[Virginia Trench]

I've never made meringue. It's a whole thing.

[Mindy Jensen]

You have to whip it with your blender for, like, five minutes on high. It is. It is not just. They don't just puff up in the oven. It was very, very sweet.

[Scott Trench]

The important takeaway from all this is that the cake was awesome when it was done. I still need to work on icing. Icing is not my strength of mine right now.

[Virginia Trench]

I was so proud of you. Yeah, it was absolutely wonderful.

[Mindy Jensen]

So let's get back into the. The money discussion. Scott recently sold a large percentage of the index funds that you hold. Did you guys discuss this ahead of time?

[Virginia Trench]

Yes. Scott is my favorite nerd on the planet. And what made me buy in, literally and figuratively to this idea was just his review of historical trends, saying, gosh, if you look back for the past century, every time this ratio has been this lopsided, like a crash has been coming, or it's good to protect against the possibility of one. I know you're very bullish about saying, I'm not saying the market's gonna crash. So that's not. That's not necessarily the point here. But Scott does. He loves a deep dive, and I love that about him. So when what I know that he. When he's really fired up about something, he starts bringing out all the graphs and statistics and stuff. It's like, oh, okay, Here we go. Time to buckle down and listen to what he has to say. So, yeah, we did talk about it.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah. And the other, the other part was, was just the income that we think we can get from, from this property. As you know, Mindy helping us with the deal there. I mean it just covers.

[Virginia Trench]

We don't know what we do without you.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah. Thank you. And it just covers so much of the, the day to day household expenses that we'd have. And that's. I feel it's important for us to maintain, make sure that we're living a lifestyle that is, well, as a conservatively fire. Despite the fact that I of course still earn an income. The CEO here at BiggerPockets with it. I just feel like that's, that's has to be congruent with the way that, with what I do professionally and in my home life around there. Otherwise I'd feel like I'm not, I'm not living what. Practicing what I preach. Basically.

[Virginia Trench]

I think we're at a stage now with our finances where we're playing to keep what we have. And that was part of that strategy.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, we are talking about Scott selling his index funds. That was episode six zero seven. We just recently released it at the end of February. And Scott backs up his position, makes a really good case for why he's making this choice. Carl and I did not choose to follow in Scott's footsteps, which doesn't make it a bad decision. It makes it a decision that we don't want for us. I love what you said, Virginia. You said his review of historical data. Scott didn't just look at the stock market and say, oh, the PE ratio is 30:1, I'm going to sell. He looked at all of everything. And you're right, he loves a good deep dive. As anybody of this, anybody listening to this podcast knows Scott loves to go down a rabbit hole. He went down a rabbit hole and came to a decision for him and well, for you, not for everybody. He is just encouraging people to look at different points of view, not just one, which includes. Don't just listen to Scott. Don't just listen to me. Like, do your own research. This is your money. And if you leave all of your money in the index funds and, and something happens, you're the only one that's going to be having to deal with that, with your position like that. Just like if I choose to leave mine in my. In the index funds and it turns out that Scott was prescient, then I'm going to have to Deal with that. But if I stay the course and Scott makes a change, he's going to deal with that. And the reason he's going to deal with that is because he went through and did all of the research in the first place. So, yeah, I, I also think it helps that you got a smoking hot deal on a property. There was this. Scott was happening to look at the market. He's like, hey, that makes a lot of sense to me based on the information that I have about real estate in general, the market in particular, and that location specifically, I think this is a good bet. So he made an informed decision, not a fly by the city or pants decision. And that's what I love so much about that decision.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, just a tip for Volks listening here. You know, you can, you could take you 5 minutes to 10 of test this out, but just go look at Zillow or talk to an agent in your local market and just look at what's for sale for investment properties and then look at what is actually sold. And my guess is that you're going to look at the stuff that's for sale and say, that's absurd. It would never work. It's ridiculous. It's way overpriced. But when you look at what's actually sold, you're like, huh, I would have bought like five or seven of those. Now, this will not be true. At every market, probably 75% of you will say, well, the stuff that's sold is no better. But I bet you 25% of you listening will be like, huh, There are actually good deals moving. And that's really what came down for me and Mindy. We talk about that at length in the book we wrote together, First Time Home Buyer. Just as for regular home buyers, not even investors. That was what really did it for me as I just looked up and did that exercise that I should have been doing more regularly for the last two years. And I was like, wow, that is a big difference.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, Virginia, I am so delighted that you joined us on the show today. And Scott, you're cool too.

[Virginia Trench]

This is so much fun. Thanks, Mindy. Thank you very much.

[Scott Trench]

Thank you for coming on.

[Mindy Jensen]

Virginia, I think you should come back again. So I will, once we stop recording, I will, I will play you with compliments so that you will come back and join us again.

[Virginia Trench]

Maybe Carl and I can do a takeover. That would be fun.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, that would be awesome. All right. And of course, make sure to bring Fred, naturally.

[Scott Trench]

Yeah, Fred doesn't need to be asked.

[Virginia Trench]

That's so true. Do cats ever need to be asked?

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, thank you so much for your time today, Virginia. This was so much fun. And the book is called Our Secrets Were Safe, and it's out in July of 2025.

[Virginia Trench]

Yes.

[Scott Trench]

Yes.

[Mindy Jensen]

Awesome. Okay, thank you so much, and we'll talk to you soon.

[Virginia Trench]

Thank you.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, that wraps up this fantastic episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. She is Virginia Trench. He is Mr. Virginia Trench. And I am Mindy Jensen. Saying goodbye. Cool cat. That's a wrap.