BiggerPockets Money Podcast – Episode: "The One Thing Most FIRE Chasers Get Wrong (and Later Regret in Retirement)"
Release Date: January 24, 2025
Host: Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench
Guest: Jordan Grummett (Doc G), author of Taking Stock and The Purpose Code
Introduction
The episode dives deep into the common misconceptions among FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) enthusiasts, exploring how an overemphasis on financial goals without aligning personal purpose can lead to later regrets in retirement. Hosted by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench, the conversation features Jordan Grummett, a unique blend of hospice doctor and personal finance expert, who shares his insights on balancing financial independence with meaningful living.
Guest Background and Journey to Purpose (00:00 - 04:08)
Mindy Jensen introduces Jordan Grummett, highlighting his transition from a burnout-prone hospice doctor to a personal finance advocate. Grummett discusses his evolution from medicine to financial independence, emphasizing that his true purpose lay in hospice care, not the broader medical field.
Jordan Grummett [01:39]: “I had trained for and became a doctor and at some point got burned out and realized that this wasn't fitting me... I kept doing hospice medicine, but then dove into a blog and eventually a podcast about personal finance.”
Grummett underscores the importance of intertwining financial independence with personal purpose, noting a gap in how purpose is addressed similarly to financial strategies.
Jordan Grummett [03:45]: “We know purpose is important, but there's never really been someone who's kind of laid it out and said, this is how you develop a life of purpose. And so that was really my whole goal.”
Impact of Social Media on Purpose (04:08 - 07:32)
Mindy Jensen raises concerns about the negative influence of social media on individuals' ability to find genuine purpose, especially among youth.
Mindy Jensen [04:08]: “What impact do you think social media and the perfect Instagram life has on finding your true purpose?”
Jordan Grummett responds by explaining how social media fosters unrealistic comparisons, leading individuals to adopt others' definitions of purpose rather than discovering their own.
Jordan Grummett [05:01]: “We can't figure out what ours is. But hey, those six-pack abs look great. Maybe I need to be in the gym... they're setting ourselves up to feel anxious and probably not succeed.”
He emphasizes that purpose should be about what genuinely fulfills you, not about emulating curated online personas.
Defining Purpose: Big P vs. Little P (07:32 - 17:04)
Mindy Jensen seeks clarification on the definition of purpose, prompting Grummett to distinguish between "Big P" and "Little P" purposes.
Mindy Jensen [06:38]: “How do you define purpose? Because simply having six pack abs is not purpose.”
Jordan Grummett elaborates:
Jordan Grummett [07:46]: “Purpose is simply doing action in the present and future that fills you up. It’s what you really enjoy the process of doing.”
He argues that Big P purpose is often goal-oriented and high-stakes, leading to anxiety, whereas Little P purpose focuses on fulfilling activities without the all-or-nothing pressure.
Jordan Grummett [17:04]: “Big P purpose is much more goal-oriented... Little P purpose, on the other hand, is purpose associated with process and not goals.”
Combating the "All or Nothing" Purpose Trap (17:04 - 25:52)
The hosts discuss how FIRE enthusiasts often fixate on large financial goals, neglecting the day-to-day fulfillment that sustains happiness. Grummett advises focusing on enjoying the journey rather than obsessing over the destination.
Jordan Grummett [08:08]: “Winning the game is spending as much time as you can doing things that light you up and that are exciting and getting rid of things you loathe.”
He warns against the pitfalls of reaching financial goals only to find that the anticipated happiness is short-lived, urging listeners to integrate purpose throughout their journey.
Jordan Grummett [09:57]: “A lot of money and they're supremely successful... but it doesn't seem to fill them up.”
Practical Implementation: Adding What You Love, Subtracting What You Hate (25:52 - 38:32)
Scott Trench prompts Grummett to provide actionable steps for incorporating Little P purpose into daily life. Grummett introduces the concepts of the "joy of addition," "art of subtraction," and "substitution" as tools to enhance personal fulfillment.
Scott Trench [12:43]: “Can you give us a way to maybe begin practically implementing that?”
Jordan Grummett [13:01]: “Winning the game is basically improving the things we love that feel purposeful and getting rid of the things we loathe.”
Grummett suggests starting by identifying disliked tasks and exploring ways to minimize or eliminate them, thereby freeing up time for more meaningful activities.
Jordan Grummett [15:00]: “Write out all the roles and responsibilities... scratch out everything you don't like and see if there's anything left.”
He emphasizes continuous refinement to ensure that daily activities align more closely with personal passions.
Purpose Beyond Financial Independence (38:32 - 47:13)
The conversation shifts to life after achieving financial independence. Grummett introduces the concept of "meaning" versus "purpose," explaining that true happiness stems from both reflecting positively on one's past (meaning) and engaging in fulfilling activities (purpose).
Jordan Grummett [25:52]: “Meaning is how we cognitively think about our past... Purpose is about the present and future, and it's about actions.”
He advises that even after achieving financial goals, maintaining Little P purpose ensures sustained happiness and avoids the trap of perpetual goal-chasing.
Jordan Grummett [31:19]: “If you ensure the activities you do are things you deeply love... you can still set big goals without detracting from your happiness.”
Scott Trench and Mindy Jensen reflect on their own FIRE journeys, acknowledging the importance of integrating purpose beyond financial targets to foster long-term fulfillment and community connections.
Mindy Jensen [42:04]: “We were going to reach this goal and we were hell bent on getting there and it was... not an enjoyable experience.”
Conclusion and Takeaways (47:13 - End)
The episode wraps up with final reflections from the hosts, emphasizing the necessity of balancing financial goals with personal purpose to achieve lasting happiness. Grummett promotes his books and resources for listeners seeking deeper understanding and practical exercises to cultivate a purposeful life.
Jordan Grummett [41:07]: “You can find links to both my books Taking Stock and the Purpose Code... at jordangrummit.com.”
Key Takeaways:
- Balance Financial Goals with Personal Purpose: Achieving financial independence is important, but integrating meaningful activities ensures sustained happiness.
- Embrace Little P Purpose: Focus on enjoying daily actions rather than fixating solely on big financial milestones.
- Combat Social Media Comparisons: Develop your own sense of purpose rather than emulating curated online lifestyles.
- Practical Steps for Purpose: Use addition, subtraction, and substitution to align daily activities with personal passions.
- Meaning vs. Purpose: Reflect positively on your past while engaging in fulfilling present and future activities to enhance overall well-being.
Notable Quotes:
- Jordan Grummett [07:46]: “Purpose is simply doing action in the present and future that fills you up.”
- Jordan Grummett [13:01]: “Winning the game is basically improving the things we love that feel purposeful and getting rid of things we loathe.”
- Jordan Grummett [25:52]: “Meaning is how we cognitively think about our past... Purpose is about the present and future, and it's about actions.”
- Mindy Jensen [42:04]: “We were going to reach this goal and we were hell bent on getting there... not an enjoyable experience.”
Further Resources:
- Jordan Grummett’s Website: jordangrummitt.com
- Books: Taking Stock and The Purpose Code
- Podcast: Earn and Invest Podcast
- Substack: Purpose Code
This episode serves as a profound reminder that while financial independence provides the means for freedom, true fulfillment arises from aligning one’s actions with personal passions and meaningful connections. By rethinking purpose beyond mere financial achievements, listeners are encouraged to cultivate lives rich in joy, community, and lasting happiness.