The “Set It and Forget It” Path to FIRE by Your 40s

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast: The “Set It and Forget It” Path to FIRE by Your 40s

Release Date: May 30, 2025
Hosts: Mindy Jensen and Amberly Grant
Guests: Andy and Oliver, aka Twin Finances

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Introduction to the Guests

In this enlightening episode, hosts Mindy Jensen and Amberly Grant welcome twins Andy and Oliver, collectively known as Twin Finances, who are on a mission to achieve Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) by the age of 45. The discussion delves into their unique journeys, investment strategies, and how they plan to escape the traditional nine-to-five grind decades ahead of the conventional retirement timeline.

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Discovering Financial Independence (FIRE)

Andy’s Journey Andy discovered the concept of FIRE approximately six years ago, around 2019, while exploring the personal finance subreddit on Reddit. Initially unfamiliar with the term, his curiosity led him to extensive research through books, YouTube videos, and BiggerPockets content, eventually paving his way to the FIRE community.

Andy (01:35):
"I just discovered people kept talking about this FIRE thing. I had no idea what it was, but after doing some research, I figured out what it was and now I'm here talking about FIRE on BiggerPockets Money."

Oliver’s Path Oliver’s introduction to FIRE mirrored Andy’s, sparked by their first full-time jobs and the necessity to save and invest. Influenced by Ramit Sethi's book, he grasped the foundational aspects of investing, further solidifying their commitment to the FIRE movement.

Oliver (03:03):
"We knew we had to take it upon ourselves to learn as much as we could. That's where we went down the FIRE rabbit hole and discovered BiggerPockets."

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Navigating Investments During Covid-19

The pandemic posed significant challenges for investors worldwide. Andy shared how Covid-19 impacted his investment strategy, revealing a commendable level of resilience and adherence to his financial plan.

Andy (02:24):
"I had read so much about staying the course and not panicking when the stock market was falling. This was my first true test, but I knew that staying the course was the best thing to do."

This disciplined approach allowed Andy to weather the market volatility without deviating from his long-term FIRE goals.

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Setting FIRE Numbers and Goals

Oliver’s FIRE Number Oliver targets a FIRE number of $2 million, aiming to achieve this milestone by the age of 45. He plans to reach this through a combination of savings, investments, and real estate ventures, while remaining flexible to accommodate life's unpredictable changes.

Oliver (03:32):
"I would say right around $2 million by 45, with some assumptions built in. It’s early in our careers, so having milestones keeps us on the path."

Andy’s FIRE Number Andy’s FIRE goal ranges between $2 to $2.5 million, translating to an annual passive income of $80,000 to $90,000 based on the 4% rule. He emphasizes the importance of flexibility, acknowledging that future expenses, such as family growth, will influence his spending needs.

Andy (05:25):
"Our FIRE numbers give us around $80,000 to $90,000 a year based on the 4% rule. It’s a flexible mindset to adapt as our lives change."

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Understanding and Calculating Net Worth

Oliver’s Net Worth Oliver’s current net worth stands at approximately $190,000, distributed across various accounts:

• 401(k): $58,000
• Roth IRA: $37,000
• HSA: $28,000
• High-Yield Savings: $52,000 (serving as an emergency fund and savings for future rental properties)
• Employee Purchase Program: $6,200
• Checking Account: $7,300

Andy’s Net Worth In contrast, Andy boasts a more substantial net worth of around $400,000, which includes real estate equity:

• Traditional 401(k): $75,000
• Roth IRA: $51,000
• HSA: $20,000
• High-Yield Savings Account: $26,000 (acting as an emergency fund)
• Brokerage Account: $21,000
• Checking Account: $12,000
• Real Estate: $95,000 (rental property) and $97,000 (primary residence equity)

Mindy Jensen (14:20):
"Oliver has $190,000 in net worth and Andy has $400,000, including their real estate. It’s interesting to see how they factor in property equity differently."

The hosts discuss the significance of including real estate equity in net worth calculations, highlighting it as tangible and potentially liquid assets compared to primary residences tied to personal use.

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Investment Strategies: Set It and Forget It vs. Active Management

Automated Investments Both Andy and Oliver advocate for a "set it and forget it" approach to managing their investments. This strategy minimizes the need for constant monitoring and reduces anxiety related to daily market fluctuations.

Oliver (06:37):
"I resonate with the set it and forget it mindset to the point where I hardly ever check the stock market. I focus on day-to-day activities instead."

Regular Check-Ins They maintain a balance by conducting high-level reviews of their investment portfolios approximately once a week to ensure everything remains on track without obsessing over short-term market movements.

Oliver (08:19):
"I probably check my investments once a week or every other week, just to make sure everything looks good."

Mindy Jensen (09:01):
"If checking your investments makes you anxious, it might be too frequent. Once a quarter during significant market events could be a more manageable approach."

This disciplined yet flexible strategy allows them to stay committed to their FIRE goals while enjoying peace of mind.

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Building a Real Estate Portfolio

Current Investments Both twins have invested in rental properties, leveraging their parents' experience in real estate investment and property management. Their father assists with managing these properties, providing valuable insights and hands-on support.

Oliver (17:13):
"Our dad is a real estate investor and property manager, so he helps us take care of our rental properties."

Future Goals Andy and Oliver aim to expand their real estate portfolios to between 7 to 15 properties over their lifetimes, focusing on long-term rentals rather than flipping houses. This strategy ensures a steady passive income stream aligned with their FIRE objectives.

Andy (23:07):
"I don't plan on owning 100 doors; anywhere from 7 to 15 properties seems feasible. We're currently investing in long-term rentals, which aligns with our strategy."

Mindy Jensen (24:20):
"I prefer a flexible approach, allowing us to seize opportunities as they arise rather than sticking to hard numbers. This makes it easier to pass on properties that aren’t a perfect fit and quickly capitalize on great deals."

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Twin Finances YouTube Channel: A Resource for Beginners

Recognizing the complexities beginners face in personal finance, Andy and Oliver launched the Twin Finances YouTube channel. The channel offers step-by-step tutorials on various financial topics, including setting up automatic transfers, buying mutual funds, and optimizing credit card points for travel hacking.

Oliver (27:49):
"Twin Finances is our YouTube channel where we teach others how to set up automated systems within their finances. We create tutorials on simple tasks like transferring money from a checking account to automatic investments."

Mindy Jensen (31:50):
"Their channel, YouTube.com/finances, is a treasure trove of tutorials. From setting up Mint accounts to buying ETFs with Fidelity, it's all there. It’s invaluable for beginners who need clear, actionable guidance."

This initiative not only aids others in their financial journeys but also reinforces Andy and Oliver’s commitment to the FIRE community by providing accessible education.

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Advice for Financial Beginners

Andy’s Tips Andy emphasizes the importance of simplifying financial processes to build good habits, advising newcomers to focus on tracking income and expenses before diving into more complex financial tools.

Andy (31:50):
"Simplify as much as possible. Start by tracking only your income and expenses to build a good habit before exploring advanced features."

Oliver’s Recommendations Oliver advocates for automating investments to minimize the need for active management, allowing individuals to focus on other interests while their finances grow steadily.

Oliver (33:20):
"Set up automatic transfers to your Roth IRA, 401(k), or HSA so you never have to think about it. This removes the temptation to procrastinate and ensures consistent progress towards your goals."

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Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Mindy and Amberly commend Andy and Oliver for their strategic and disciplined approach to achieving FIRE. They highlight the value of Twin Finances' educational resources and encourage listeners to leverage these tools to overcome the initial hurdles of personal finance management.

Mindy Jensen (35:21):
"If you're a beginner or know someone who is, check out YouTube.com/finances. Their step-by-step guides make daunting financial tasks manageable and actionable."

Amberly Grant (36:23):
"Andy and Oliver are documenting their path and simplifying finances in a way that many can benefit from. Their similar yet unique strategies showcase that even twins can carve their own paths to financial independence."

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the importance of education, automation, and flexibility in achieving financial independence, inspiring listeners to take proactive steps toward their own FIRE journeys.

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Key Takeaways

• Start Early: Discover and commit to FIRE as early as possible to maximize investment growth.
• Stay Disciplined: Maintain a set-it-and-forget-it approach to reduce anxiety and foster long-term investment growth.
• Educate Yourself: Utilize resources like Twin Finances to navigate the complexities of personal finance.
• Diversify Investments: Balance investments between the stock market and real estate to build a robust portfolio.
• Set Flexible Goals: Establish milestones but remain adaptable to life's changes to stay motivated and on track.

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For more insights and step-by-step financial tutorials, visit Twin Finances on YouTube at YouTube.com/finances, TikTok, and Instagram under the same handle.

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Quote Highlights:

• Andy (01:35):
  "I just discovered people kept talking about this FIRE thing. I had no idea what it was, but after doing some research, I figured out what it was and now I'm here talking about FIRE on BiggerPockets Money."

• Oliver (03:32):
  "I would say right around $2 million by 45, with some assumptions built in. It’s early in our careers, so having milestones keeps us on the path."

• Mindy Jensen (31:50):
  "Their channel, YouTube.com/finances, is a treasure trove of tutorials. From setting up Mint accounts to buying ETFs with Fidelity, it's all there. It’s invaluable for beginners who need clear, actionable guidance."

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the core discussions from the BiggerPockets Money Podcast episode featuring Twin Finances, providing valuable insights into their journey towards FIRE and offering actionable advice for listeners aiming to achieve financial independence.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Today we're joined by twins Andy and Oliver, who share more than just DNA. They share the ambition to achieve financial independence by age 45. Are they approaching 5 the same way or do they have different investing strategies? How exactly are they planning to break free from their nine to five grind a full two decades before traditional retirement age? That's what we are going to break down in today's episode. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen and and with me today is my darling friend, Amberly Grant.

[Amberly Grant]

Hey, Mindy, how you doing?

[Mindy Jensen]

I'm great. How are you doing, Amberly?

[Amberly Grant]

I am wonderful. BiggerPockets has a goal of creating 1 million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order, because we truly believe that financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you are starting. We are so excited to be joined today by fire devotees Andy and Oliver. They are known as Twin finances in the fire community and we can't wait to break down their money story. Welcome, Andy.

[Andy]

Hey everyone. Really excited to be here.

[Amberly Grant]

Awesome. Welcome, Oliver.

[Oliver]

Hey everyone. Super excited to be here and talking to Mindy and Amberly.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, Andy and Oliver, we met at Economy or fincon first. I think it was economy. Yeah, we met at Economy at speed friendshipping and then we saw each other again at fincon and we have finally connected and got together and I'm so excited to share each other your money story with our audience. So first off, Andy, tell me how you discovered financial independence. The concept.

[Andy]

Yeah, yeah. So I would say I first discovered it like after I got my first full time job and I was just looking on Reddit actually just about like, you know, about personal. The personal finance subreddit, to be specific. And yeah, I just discovered people kept talking about this fire thing. I had no idea what it was. But then, you know, after doing some research, yeah, I figured out what it was and then long story short, now I'm here talking about fire on bigger Pockets money.

[Mindy Jensen]

And how long ago did you discover Phi?

[Andy]

I would say about six. Since like 20, around 2019. So like about six years ago, I.

[Mindy Jensen]

Would say, okay, how did covet affect your investment strategy? Because it sounds like that was kind of. You were kind of new to investing and new to fire. Did Covid make you pause and say, oh, maybe the stock market isn't for me?

[Andy]

Yeah, that's a great question. So actually I would say, like, it actually didn't affect me personally too much because I had Read so much about, you know, just staying the course, not panicking when, you know, the stock market is falling. And I think this was really the first true test that I had. But you know, having read so much about like, you know, fire from like, you know, books and like YouTube videos and from bigger pockets, I knew that like, you know, just saying the course and like really doing nothing was the simplest was the correct thing to do. And so that's what I ended up doing.

[Mindy Jensen]

Now that is incredibly mature of you, Oliver. How did you discover financial independence?

[Oliver]

Yeah, pretty similar story to Andy. Just when we got our first jobs, we knew that the next we knew we needed to save. But also kind of the next level was that investing piece. So that's where we kind of have a gap. And so just reading different articles, blogs, Reddit, just stumbled upon it as well. But also came across Ramit Sethi's book and I think that kind of set up the foundation of like how to invest and what to invest in. So pretty similar story there.

[Amberly Grant]

Oliver, what is your Phi number and when do you think you'll achieve it?

[Oliver]

I would say right around 2 million and I would say shooting around 45 with kind of just some assumptions built in there. Still, still kind of early ish in the career. So trying to not plan too far ahead but want to have a goal to kind of be able to set some milestones along the path. So I would say right around 2 million.

[Amberly Grant]

What are those milestones that you're thinking of? Settings that you feel like you're achieving your goals.

[Oliver]

So I think the first is just, just kind of like the classic net worth Tracker. So like 500,000, a million like and maybe probably a little smaller ones as well. But I think those are kind of the big ones that I'm just like kind of working towards. And then I think I would like to think, you know, it's a steady progression, but I know life happens and you know, in the future, eventually, hope, have a family, things like that. So that's where I don't want to be too rigid and be disappointed if I don't make it by a certain date. But I think just kind of having those out in the field of vision is kind of my goal right now to make sure that I just stay the path.

[Amberly Grant]

I love that you're thinking about your future and how your goals and, and your path may change a little bit because it sets you up for success instead of failure. I think a lot of people think that if you're working towards 2 million and you don't achieve it in the exact time frame that you set out, that you're not doing good enough or well enough. And so it's really nice to think in advance about the ebbs and flows of life. And I can be someone, like, I can talk to that because I recently had a child. And the first year can just be like, who knows? Very expensive, not expensive. It just depends on what's going on. Right? So it's like, you gotta be gentle on yourself for the path to fire. You'll get there. It just might take longer or shorter than you anticipate. Andy, what about you? Like, what's your fire number and when will you achieve it?

[Andy]

Yeah, so just like Oliver, I would say, you know, it's pretty similar, I think anywhere from like 2 million to 2 and a half. Just depends. So that gives us a, you know, with a 4% rule, that gives us about like anywhere from 80,000 to maybe like, you know, 90,000 a year. But, you know, just like Oliver mentioned as well, like, we can't really predict the future. And like, maybe 80,000 is like a good number, like in today's dollars, but, you know, maybe in 20 years that might not be as much. So definitely, like, on a very similar mindset where I'm trying to be as flexible as possible, but also, like Oliver said, like, just to have a goal to make sure we're aiming towards something. But yeah, just to make sure we stay focused and just. I've actually hit at least minimum. I would say that's like a good goal, I feel like. And then, you know, who knows, we'll have in 20 years. But I think that's like the ultimate goal.

[Amberly Grant]

I love it. Is that 80,000 a year based on your current spend, or is it just a number you made up for the future?

[Andy]

Yeah, great question. So I would say it's just a number made up for the future just because, like, from how much I spend now, from how much I spend, you know, by the time I'm 45, I think it's like, drastically different. You know, definitely have a family by the time we'll have kids. So I'm sure my expenses will, like, definitely increase a good. A good bit compared to, like, what I have, what my current expenses are.

[Mindy Jensen]

How actively are you working towards Phi? Is this something that's constantly in your mind, or is it kind of set it and forget it? I know that I want to save X percentage, so I do that and then I just live my life.

[Oliver]

I would say I probably more. More in the lenient Side of that, like in the sense of I def. I definitely like resonate with the set and forget it almost to a fault of like I really, I hardly ever check the stock market just because one, of course that's doesn't help. But two, even like, even if I do, it's just really, I think to me, like day to day, it just doesn't bother me. I just know I'm not gonna touch that money, so there's no point in looking at it. So I would say, like, it's definitely something in the back of my mind, but at the end of the day it's something like I want to focus on the day to day stuff. So that's where more of like, you know, meeting other people or just, you know, understanding high level, like what my goals are, but have really gone to like travel hacking and things like that. Just because that's something more I can focus on now versus like later.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, I absolutely love that answer. I am married to Carl and he checks it every day because that just brings him joy. I never check it because he checks it every day. Why do I have to check it? And then of course he talks to me about it. But if he's gone for a week and we don't talk about it, that's okay. I have no control over what any of the stocks are or funds that I own does on a day to day basis. So continuing it, especially if it gives you anxiety, I think that if I sat there and watched it, I might start to get a little bit of anxiety. Oh, we're down today. Oh, we're up today. Oh, we're down today. Like, don't, don't bother. You don't need it right now. So, you know, check in. Like how frequently do you check in, Oliver?

[Oliver]

Probably not enough, to be honest. Like, probably like once a week. I'll like take high level, making sure that like, I think everything is like, looks good, but honestly, like probably could do a little bit more, but again, trying to find that good balance of being able just to not look at it too much, but to stay on top of things. And there are adjustments that are needed. I can make those. But honestly. Yeah, like I would say once a week. Once every other week.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. No, that's. I was going to suggest, you know, once a quarter when there's a great big event in the stock market, maybe take a peek at it. But otherwise, like, look at it when it feels comfortable to you. If you start feeling really, really anxious about it, maybe you're looking at it too frequently.

[Amberly Grant]

Something to think about is if you would look at it every single week in a year. That is 52 times in a year. And I don't know if we need to look at our investments 52 times in a year. So when I quantify it in a yearly basis it sounds actually kind of absurd. And there are people who do it every day. So then you're like 365 days a year you're going to look at your accounts. That seems a little much now even once every two weeks. Okay. Like 25 times a year. That sounds like a little more I guess manageable or interesting that you actually can see some change. So anyways, that's my quick thought on that is if you put it into like a whole year and what you're spending your life doing that. I don't know if I want to spend 52 times in my life pulling up my all of my different brokerage accounts. Anywho, I love that.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that so much. We have to take a quick break, but when we're back we will hear about how Andy and Oliver are incorporating real estate into their portfolio for a bit of diversification.

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[Amberly Grant]

Welcome back to the show.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oliver. What is your current net worth?

[Oliver]

Yeah, so I have it broken out between a couple of different brokerage accounts and investments accounts, but just to a high level. I think it tolls and of course it ebbs and flows with the stock market, but it's right. It's right around 190,000. So I have about 58,000 in my 401k. I have about 37,000 in my Roth IRA, 28,000 in my HSA, and then 52,000 in my high youth savings account. And I recently participated in my company's employee purchase program. So I think it's right around 6,200 for that. And then my checking account, I have about 7,300.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. I find it interesting that you have $52,000 in a high yield savings account. Is that your emergency fund? Are you saving for something?

[Oliver]

Emergency fund, but also I think in the. In someone in the near future saving for something for potentially another rental property. So that's something that I've just been saving for there.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, you said another rental property. Do you own a rental property right now?

[Oliver]

Yes. So last year I was able to purchase my first rental property.

[Mindy Jensen]

Do you include the equity in that property in your net worth calculation?

[Oliver]

Okay, sorry, I should have clarified. No, I did not. Just keep it a little simpler. So I did not include that in those numbers.

[Mindy Jensen]

I like to include that because that is real, even more so than my home equity. Although I do include my home equity in my net worth calculations as well, because that is real money that is tied up in that house that if you sold, you would collect. So something to think about going forward, you might want to include that in your net worth. Okay, Andy, what is your current net worth?

[Andy]

Yeah, so I would say my current net worth is around like 400,000. But I'm also. I am including like, the equity into my, like, and basically, like, how much I put into my, like, one investment property as well as my, like, primary residence. So, yeah, just like, broken out. Like, Like, I have a traditional 401K. I have about like, 75,000. My Roth IRA has around 51,000. My HSA has around 20,000. My High Yield Savings Account has around 26,000. My brokerage account has 21,000. And I have a checking account around 12,000. And then, like, for one, for one of my rental properties, I put down like, around like 95,000. And so I'm going to just include. I'm just including just that in my net worth as well, as my primary residence, I also put down about 97,000. So yeah, approximately it all equals around 400,000.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. And you don't have a large high yield savings account. Do you have a specific emergency fund?

[Andy]

Yeah, I would say my emergency fund right now is my high yield savings account. Just because I recently brought about my primary residence. And so I'm just trying to reboot it back up like at this moment.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so Oliver has 190,000 in net worth and Andy has 400,000 in net worth. Broken out a little bit differently. I would be curious to see what the equity is in your rental and your primary. Oliver. I wonder that. I bet those numbers are a lot closer than we actually then are actually conveyed right here. So just something to think about when you're calculating your net worth. Your net worth is not necessarily your fine number. Your home equity is something that I consider as part of my net worth, but I don't count it towards my fine number because I'm not going to sell my house to fund my lifestyle. I'm going to continue to live in my house. So I'm looking for different ways to calculate my phi number. Does that make sense?

[Oliver]

Yeah, no, that makes sense and that's good advice.

[Amberly Grant]

Andy, what do you do for a living and where are you based currently?

[Andy]

I work as like a software engineer and I'm currently based in like Atlanta, Georgia.

[Amberly Grant]

Excellent. Atlanta is a higher cost of living, low cost of living, medium.

[Andy]

What do you think I would classify as like, medium? Like, I don't think it's like a San Francisco or like a New York, but it's also not like, like super cheap like other states. So, yeah, around medium cost of living, I think.

[Amberly Grant]

Yeah, from what I hear about it, it sounds like that lots of suburbs, just like a normal city in a sense. What about you, Oliver? Where are you based and what's your career?

[Oliver]

So I'm currently based in Ann Arbor, Michigan and I am a supply chain consultant.

[Amberly Grant]

Excellent. Ann Arbor, Michigan. Large university there. So high medium, low cost of living.

[Oliver]

I would say it's probably closer to medium. So not. The rent prices aren't too crazy here.

[Amberly Grant]

And are you two investing in your local community in regards to your rental properties or you've you've been investing out of state?

[Andy]

I would say it's like more local. So it's like in a city that we grew up in, we both currently don't live there now, but we both have investment properties there.

[Amberly Grant]

Oliver, do you have a property management manager for your investment property?

[Oliver]

Yes. So we Do. So I think we mentioned this in our notes, but, um, currently our dad is actually a real estate investor and a property manager, so he helps us take care of that.

[Amberly Grant]

Whoa, Nice. What? Okay, big question for you. Did you always know that you were going to invest in real estate because you watched your parents do it, or your, specifically your father do it? Or was this something that you thought you would never do and then you just happened to find yourself in it?

[Oliver]

I would say it's something that definitely our parents have always, ever since, I don't know, middle school, high school, ever since we got our first paying job, was always like, okay, the first thing you're gonna do is get a house as soon as possible. So it's one of those things. It was kind of like not ingrained in a sense, but at the same time it's one of those things when your parents tell you to do something, you don't really want to do it. So it was nothing I ever took seriously. We were probably getting paid like $10 an hour at a first job, something like that. I can't even, I can't even afford to go eat out, like, let alone like worry about saving for a house. So it was more of like, okay, yeah, sure dad, we'll do that eventually. And then I think it was once we finally got our first like full time jobs, our parents, like I mentioned, they weren't in corporate or anything, so I knew they didn't really understand like the 401K, Roth R8, things like that. And so we kind of knew we had to take it upon ourselves to kind of just like learn as much as we could. And so that's where we kind of like again, like we mentioned earlier, gone to fire and just learn more about that and kind of going down that rabbit hole. We of course heard about bigger pockets and then learned more about how real estate was. It was actually a really good investment prop. Investment asset. So that's where it definitely helped at that point where we told our dad about it and he was definitely on board. So I think it worked out really well in the end.

[Amberly Grant]

That's really cool. Andy, what about you? Did you think that you would be investing in real estate or were you also like, maybe, but not really?

[Andy]

Yeah, I would definitely say, yeah, I did. I definitely did plan on investing in real estate just because, you know, our parents like were heavily involved in real estate and they made their whole career out of it. So it seemed like a very natural progression to like continue investing in real estate. So yeah, I, I did plan on it.

[Amberly Grant]

Awesome. I feel like my kids will be like you too. They'll be like what? What am I doing here? You know, am I gonna invest in real estate? Am I not? We'll probably put them to work in the properties so they're gonna learn a lot. But then they might resent us for it. Who know that you guys came back to it. And Andy, you were always planning on doing it. But Oliver, you came back to it and you're actually investing in properties and following in your parents footstep yet also making your own path. So great job. We have to take one final ad break and we'll be back with more.

[Mindy Jensen]

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[Unknown]

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[Oliver]

You know that feeling when someone shows up for you just when you need it most?

[Mindy Jensen]

That's what Uber is all about.

[Oliver]

Not just a ride or dinner at your door. It's how Uber helps you show up.

[Mindy Jensen]

For the moments that matter. Because showing up can turn a tough day around or make a good one even better.

[Oliver]

Whatever it is, big or small, Uber.

[Amberly Grant]

Is on the way.

[Mindy Jensen]

So you can be on yours.

[Unknown]

Uber On Our Way.

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[Andy]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Amberly Grant]

I don't know if you knew this.

[Andy]

But anyone can get the same Premium.

[Mindy Jensen]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Andy]

It's not just for celebr so do.

[Mindy Jensen]

Like I did and have one of.

[Andy]

Your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Amberly Grant]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] thanks for sticking with us.

[Mindy Jensen]

Chad Carson is a really great example of my dad made me do it and then I fell in love with it. But I'm sure I can't think of anybody right now who's like, oh my dad made me do it, therefore I am never doing it. Like my kids, they hate the thought of a live in flip and they're like oh when I grow up I'm gonna live in a house that's already finished. I'm like we've lived in finished houses like two or three years of your whole life so that it can be a little rough on the kids. Andy, do you have an idea of how large your real estate portfolio you want to have? Do you have like a door count or a annual or monthly income and then you'll stop buying rental properties? Or how does your how does your real estate portfolio play out?

[Andy]

Yeah, great question. I would say as of right now, yeah, I don't think I'm one of those people who wants to own like 100 doors, to be honest. I think realistically anywhere from like, you know, like from 5, like anywhere from like 7 maybe to 15 like over the course of my life I think would be pretty good number. Just just to give context as well. Like we're currently like investing in like long term rent and so at the rate we're going, I think that's like a pretty feasible number. Just because we're like, you know, putting the whole 20 down and just like, yeah, just doing investment properties. So not doing any, like, live in flips or house hacking just yet, but yeah, that's the, that's like the current strategy.

[Mindy Jensen]

And Oliver, what about you? Do you have a set amount or a set income level that you're working towards?

[Oliver]

Yeah, pretty similar answer. I want to say a set one, but I think whatever makes the most sense kind of in my situation now. So I think like Andy mentioned, at the rate we're going, probably 7 to 15. But of course, just like earlier, like, anything could change. So I'm not super set on a number, but I think just having a good number just to be able to learn and understand kind of the process is kind of what I'm shooting for.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. I was the community manager for BiggerPockets for six years, and I was in the forums all day, every day, and I would constantly see people coming in. I am going to buy a hundred doors. How many do you have now? None. Okay, that's a great goal, but I don't like these hard and fast numbers. I like these, these ideas. Oh, I. I'm gonna buy until it doesn't make sense to not buy anymore. I'm going to. You know, I am always looking for a deal. I'm a real estate agent. I have access to the mls. I've set up a search for myself. Any house in my city that pops up, I get a notification. So I keep my thumb on the pulse of the city that I'm working in. But also it, like, I drink my coffee in the morning and I go through all of the listings that popped up the night before. Oh, that's a very interesting property. I don't really have the bandwidth to do a flip right now, so. But I have a friend who wants to do flips, so maybe I'll, you know, let them know that this is coming up or. Hey, this looks like an awesome deal. I wasn't even looking for one, but I just bought another house. Yay. So it's, you know, when you have a more loose idea of what it is you want, I think it's. You're easier. It's easier to pass on a house that isn't quite great, and it's easier to jump on a house that you really love.

[Amberly Grant]

I'm all about that philosophy, Mindy. I always joke that the houses find me. I don't find Them. And I find because I'm not a aggressive real estate investor, I think I've been able to wait for some seriously good houses. So I'm all about a, you know, a goal and something to attain, but nothing where you're, you know, setting all of your intention, like, okay, I have to do this thing. All right, now that you two have an incredible base, you've got stuff in investments. You in like brokerages and stock market. You also have housing. Andy, what's your next step and where are you going from here?

[Andy]

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I think that's something I'm personally still trying to figure out. But I would just say, like a very high level. I'm just continuing. Just doing what I'm doing right now, which is investing, like in index funds as well as continue to invest in real estate, but also trying to find a good balance between the two. Not sure if I want to go like, you know, more into real estate versus stocks or the other way around. But as of right now, just trying to do it. Even just 50, 50 split. But who knows, maybe in the future, you know, if there's a good opportunity, might focus more on real estate or if, you know, if the stock market crashes, might buy some more stocks when it's cheaper. So, yeah, that's like the general plan right now.

[Amberly Grant]

Nice. Andy, are you more motivated by the FI or the re?

[Andy]

I would definitely say the fi. Like, I really enjoy what I do as my job right now, but, you know, having the option to be fi, you know, would be amazing. So definitely focus more on the FI part.

[Amberly Grant]

Awesome. Oliver, first, are you more interested in the FI or the re?

[Oliver]

Yeah, same answer. Definitely the fi. I think I enjoy my job as well, so I'm grateful to say that. I think it's just one of those things, like, in the future, like, it would be. Yeah, really nice to be able to, like, if I had to stop or for whatever reason, take a break. It'd be nice to be able to know that I could.

[Amberly Grant]

I love it. And you're working on something part time for both of you together, whoever Andy or Oliver want to tell me about Twin Finance.

[Oliver]

Yeah, no, Twin Finances is something that started, I would say, about, like, it's kind of been in the works the past couple of years, but we started taking it more seriously once we met. Once we went to economy and met all the other creators. But it's our current YouTube channel where we teach others, like, how to set up a automated system within their finances. So we have A lot of tutorials such as like pretty like simple or pretty like simple things you would think, but stuff like just how to transfer money from a checking account, how to set up automatic transfers, how to set up automatic investments, things like that. I think once we kind of got to the fire movement, we learned there's a lot of people who tell you like what to do, but they don't necessarily show you how to do it, even if it's something that you would think is straightforward. When I first, when we both first got into to this, like I had no idea how to set up an automatic transfer. Like I just didn't really use like those websites too much like Charles Schwab's and Fidelity and things like that. So we're kind of. We wanted to create a resource that we wish we had. When we first started. It was a lot of struggling for us and you know, of course we eventually did figure out how to do all that, but it just, it would have been really nice to have one place where you could find all that info. So that's currently what we're doing now and kind of our main focus outside of like real estate.

[Amberly Grant]

I love that it took me 10 months to do a backdoor Roth IRA because I just could not understand how to do it and I didn't understand any of the tutorials. So I had to have a friend come on zoom and show me step by step how to do it. So I would very much appreciate any tutorials you have in regards to financial step by step guides. Thanks Andy. Anything to add there?

[Andy]

Yeah, not too, too much but yeah, just to emphasize. Yeah like our channel is exactly that. It's just really step by step tutorials on how to do everything like personal finance related like and for. And just to give context on like why we started it. Like I remember I procrastinated like opening up my first Roth IRA because I just didn't know how to do it and I didn't know what the steps were. Even though like I went on the website I tried to do it. It was just like intimidating at first. And so I definitely procrastinated for a while. But that's actually what inspired us to like make the first couple videos where just like once I figured out how to do it I just wanted to share with others like how to do the exact same thing just to show them it wasn't as difficult or intimidating as like as they might think.

[Amberly Grant]

So you totally hit the nail on the head there. Intimidating and then, then you do the first part but then you don't do the second follow up for like another five months and then all of a sudden it's a new year and you've lost the entire contribution room. No, I haven't done that. Yes, I have.

[Mindy Jensen]

I am on your Twin Finances YouTube channel right now, which is YouTube.com finances. There's an S on there because there's two of them. Charles Schwab set up automatic transfers. Vanguard. How to buy a mutual fund. If you don't know anything about this, you could get on the Vanguard website and be like, well, maybe tomorrow. I can totally see how somebody would continue to push it off and push it off and push it off. And this is awesome. How to buy an ETF with Fidelity. How to buy stocks in your HSA in Fidelity. This is awesome. You've got the. Your. Your thumbnails are awesome because you've got the headline. If I don't have Vanguard, I do everything in Fidelity. Great. I'll just go onto the green Fidelity ones. Vanguard is red. Charles Schwab is blue. This is so awesome. How to view your IRA contributions. Buy an ETF in one minute if you are not savvy in how to do all of these things. If you're newer to financial independence. If your kids want a place to go to learn how to do this. YouTube.com finances that is such a great tutorial. I love those so much. So, Andy, what is your biggest piece of advice to somebody who is just getting started today?

[Andy]

Yeah, so I would say my biggest piece of advice for someone who's like, starting from, like, the absolute beginning is just to try to simplify as much as possible. So just to give one specific example, like, I remember when I first started to set up, like, Mint, my Mint account to, like, track all my finances. So, like, my income and expenses. I remember that, you know, there's a lot of different features on that app or there was anyway, like, such as, like, budgets, your. Your tracking income, expenses, like, all these extra things. But I would highly recommend just sticking to a very simple process, at least at the very beginning, and just adding on. And so to be a little more specific, like, something I did at the very beginning was just to track only my income and my expenses. Like, I didn't even focus on, like, you know, trying to, like, use all these extra features just because I just wanted to get started and build a good habit. And then once I built that good habit, then I started to explore, like, other features of, like, Mint. But just to directly answer your question, I would say simplify everything, whether it's like tracking your income, expenses, or even just like, setting up automatic investments. Just like, just set everything up as, like, quickly as possible and just keep it simple. And then afterwards just like, get into the more advanced stuff. And that way you can at least make progress versus if you try to jump in and try to do all these advanced things at the very beginning, you might end up just procrastinating and like, not doing anything. So that's my one piece of advice.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that. Oliver, what is your best piece of advice for somebody who's just starting out?

[Oliver]

Yeah, and just to piggyback off that. The reason we. One of the reasons we started that YouTube channel, like we said it was just because it's very complicated at the beginning, but after reading Ramit's book and just. It really resonated with the set it and forget it mindset. Like I mentioned earlier, like, I feel like I probably don't look. Probably don't check my accounts and all that, like, enough. But I wanted to set up an automated system in a way. Like, you actually just never have to look if you really didn't want to. So I would say, like, just setting up like, the automatic transfers from your paycheck to your Roth IRA to your 401k or HSA and things like that. I think it was really key part. And like, I would just not check for a couple weeks at a time and then would see like, the net worth go up and like, wow, I didn't even realize. And it was just something, I think for me, someone who's just like, really lazy and, you know, I care about it enough, but I don't care enough to check every single day. I think that was kind of the key for me, so that way I could focus on my other, like, interests and hobbies, like the YouTube channel and other things.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, besides twin finances on YouTube, is there any other place people can find you online? Andy, I'm going to have you go answer first.

[Andy]

Yeah, I would say one place you guys can find us is our website. Like twin finances.com we just sorted. We just started it, but it has some basic information about us. But you can find like, more information. You can find, like. Yeah, more information about us on our website.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oliver, any other place besides the website or the YouTube channel?

[Oliver]

Yeah, I would say we have TikTok and Instagram as well with the same tag. It's not as active as a YouTube channel, but in. In addition to some of the other finance tutorials that we put on there, we also put some Credit card tutorials. So, like I mentioned earlier, gotten to travel hacking a lot in these past couple years. So to the similar perspective of kind of like the finance tutorials is we put credit card tutorials. So things like how to transfer your credit card points from one program to another and how to kind of do the whole travel hacking as a beginner. So think our TikTok and Instagram are mostly focused on that, but our YouTube channel has both of those combined.

[Mindy Jensen]

Awesome. And your TikTok is also twin Finances.

[Oliver]

Yes, that's correct.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oliver, thank you so much for your time today. This was a lot of fun. I hope that everybody listening takes either the moment to go over to and check out your content on YouTube or shares it with somebody in their life that needs the beginner tutorials, because that is priceless for getting started. It is so easy to see a complicated website and just say, never mind. But getting into it, getting it done. I mean, how many times have you heard this story, Amberly? Oh, I thought I was contributing to my Roth ira, but it was. The money was just sitting there because I never invested it anywhere. I've heard that story too many times. So if you have a beginner in your life or if you are a beginner, check out YouTube.com finances. All right, Oliver, Andy, thank you so much for your time and we will talk to you soon.

[Oliver]

Thanks for the time, Mindy. Really appreciate it.

[Andy]

Yeah, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah. Okay, bye. Bye. All right, that was Andy and Oliver from Twin Finance. Amberly, what'd you think of the show?

[Amberly Grant]

Absolutely loved it. I just love that they are pretty much documenting their path to starting new accounts and simplifying their finances, which I think a lot of people can really benefit from. I also love that they have very similar ideas on what they're doing for finance, but they have different jobs. And though their fine number seems to be exactly the same, we'll see how they end up in the next 20 years.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that even though they're twins, they have the same. The same trajectory as everybody else in the fi journey. It's. It's not like they're doing the same thing because they're twins. They're doing the same thing because that's what needs to be done in order to get to financial independence. Um, but like I said at the end of the show, I absolutely love their site. I. I love the. The step by step videos that they share that just tells you how to go and do the thing, because we sit here in these podcasts and we're like, oh, it's so easy. Just open up an ira. Well, it's not actually so easy if you've never done it before, if you don't know what you're doing. And muddling through can be the. The stopping factor when you're trying to get this. This whole thing started. Ugh, I can't figure it out. Forget it. I'm not even gonna bother. Or I'll try next week, and then next week never comes. So. I love that they've got the step by steps that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets money podcast. She is Amberly Grant. I am Mindy Jensen. Saying jump that hurdle, turtle.