We Paid Off $500K in Debt: Now We’re on Track to Retire (Early) in Our 50s

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast Summary

Episode: We Paid Off $500K in Debt: Now We’re on Track to Retire (Early) in Our 50s
Release Date: April 25, 2025
Hosts: Mindy Jensen & Amanda Wolfe
Guests: Amira & Mozzy

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1. Introduction and The Catalyst for Financial Transformation (00:00 - 01:37)

Mindy Jensen introduces the episode by sharing a compelling scenario: being asked about student loan debt on a first date. This pivotal moment serves as the catalyst for the financial journey of the guests, Amira and Mozzy. Instead of panicking, the couple collaboratively developed a strategy to eliminate over $500,000 in student loan debt within five years.

Notable Quote:

Mindy Jensen (00:00): "Imagine being asked on a first date how much student loan debt you have while still trying to make a good impression over dinner."

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2. The First Date Financial Conversation (01:24 - 04:30)

Mozzy recounts initiating the financial discussion on their first date, which took place during a Sunday brunch. His proactive approach highlighted the substantial student loan debts both partners were carrying—Amira with $275,000 and Mozzy with $230,000.

Notable Quotes:

Mozzy (01:30): "I was the one who brought that conversation up on the first date."

Mindy Jensen (03:32): "So it's not like you're coming in here all innocent."

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3. Understanding Each Other’s Financial Background (04:03 - 08:09)

The couple delves into their individual financial backgrounds. Mozzy, already a registered nurse with some debt, was preparing for graduate school in anesthesia. Meanwhile, Amira, transitioning from an undergraduate to graduate program without a significant income, accumulated more debt due to high living costs and personal expenses.

Notable Quote:

Amira (08:09): "The money that I took out was to do all of these different things while I was three years, you know, without."

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4. The Debt Payoff Journey Begins (15:41 - 18:03)

Amira explains that the birth of their first child, Jaden, was a turning point that intensified their commitment to paying off debt. They decided to move to a higher-paying location for Mozzy's work, which allowed them to increase their income without compromising their work-life balance.

Notable Quote:

Amira (15:57): "We had to replace my income. And so we started thinking about how can Mozzy replace his income without necessarily having to work more."

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5. Strategies for Aggressive Debt Repayment (18:03 - 22:52)

Mozzy describes becoming obsessive about reducing the student loan balance, viewing each payment as a milestone towards complete financial freedom. The couple worked with a financial coach, Shung from Save My Sense, who helped them devise a plan that allowed them to pay off their loans ahead of schedule.

Notable Quotes:

Mozzy (18:03): "It became a little bit of an addiction, honestly. You wanted to see the number gone."

Amira (22:52): "We have an eight month emergency fund that we saved a long time ago before we even had our first."

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6. Balancing Debt Repayment with Quality of Life (19:34 - 26:44)

While aggressively paying down debt, Amira and Mozzy ensured they still enjoyed life by budgeting for occasional treats, such as vacations and personal wellness. Amira emphasizes the importance of not letting debt repayment overshadow their quality of life.

Notable Quote:

Amira (22:06): "I brought a little bit of the balance too to Mozzy because I wasn't quite obsessing over them. I definitely wanted to see them gone too. But I was also like, we have to enjoy life at the same time."

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7. Current Financial Standing and Investment Strategies (29:43 - 33:56)

With their student loans paid off, Amira and Mozzy have shifted their focus to investing and building their net worth. They utilize tax strategies and work with a tax team to maximize their savings. Mozzy has a rental property that covers its mortgage, contributing positively to their net worth.

Notable Quotes:

Mindy Jensen (30:34): "So the market has taken a turn in the last couple months."

Mozzy (29:53): "The renters have been renting consistently since I started school and have never left. So it’s been great."

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8. Future Plans and FIRE Goal (31:37 - 39:04)

The couple outlines their Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) goal, aiming for a net worth of $10 million by age 52. They plan to redirect funds previously allocated to debt repayment into investments, expecting substantial returns over time.

Notable Quotes:

Mozzy (31:47): "The coach was. That we got. We wanted to. My fire number was 10 million."

Amira (33:56): "We also do things where we bring in our family and we don't want to have to burden them with, you know, paying for a bunch of stuff."

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9. Advice for Couples on Financial Conversations (26:44 - 29:33)

Amira underscores the importance of open and honest financial conversations within a relationship. She credits Mozzy for encouraging transparency and embraces her role as a financial coach to help others avoid similar pitfalls.

Notable Quotes:

Amira (26:44): "He was truly the catalyst for me, like, getting my act together when it came to money."

Mindy Jensen (27:07): "So if you find yourself in a similar position, have a conversation with the tax strategist."

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10. Re-evaluating Retirement Goals and Adjusting Plans (40:42 - 54:12)

As they near their FIRE goal, Amira and Mozzy discuss the necessity of reassessing their retirement numbers, considering factors like inflation and evolving lifestyle desires. They contemplate reducing their target retirement amount to align with realistic spending and future needs, emphasizing flexibility in their financial planning.

Notable Quotes:

Mindy Jensen (45:04): "You just want to make sure that you have a realistic number or you are continuing to think about it."

Mozzy (54:12): "That's currently the crossroad we're at right now."

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11. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (56:13 - 58:28)

The hosts reflect on Amira and Mozzy's journey, highlighting the significance of initiating financial discussions early in relationships. They applaud the couple’s balanced approach to debt repayment and wealth building, encouraging listeners to adopt similar strategies for financial harmony and independence.

Notable Quotes:

Mindy Jensen (57:57): "Start those money conversations early."

Amanda Wolfe (58:28): "We are just a really beautiful picture of what can be when you start those money conversations really, really early."

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Key Takeaways:

• Proactive Financial Conversations: Addressing financial matters openly from the beginning fosters transparency and alignment in financial goals.

• Strategic Debt Repayment: Developing a structured plan with professional guidance can accelerate debt elimination.

• Balancing Life and Finances: It's essential to maintain quality of life and enjoy moments of joy while working towards financial goals.

• Flexible Retirement Planning: Regularly reassessing retirement goals considering inflation and lifestyle changes ensures realistic and achievable targets.

• Leveraging Professional Help: Engaging financial coaches and tax strategists can provide valuable insights and strategies for effective wealth building.

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This episode serves as an inspiring blueprint for couples navigating substantial debts, illustrating that with collaboration, strategic planning, and open communication, achieving financial freedom and early retirement is attainable.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Imagine being asked on a first date how much student loan debt you have while still trying to make a good impression over dinner. For our guests, this unexpected question became the catalyst for a complete financial transformation. What would you do if you suddenly realized you were about to graduate with $275,000 in student loan debt and your future spouse was bringing an additional $230,000 into the mix? Most couples might panic or avoid the topic altogether, but our guests took a different approach. Together, they developed a strategy that eliminated over half a million dollars in student loan debt in just five years. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and as Scott is out on paternity leave, Amanda Wolfe is stepping in and filling his shoes. Amanda, thanks so much for joining me today.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Give Scott a little rest.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yes.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Bigger Pockets has a goal of creating 1 million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. Today we're joined by Amira and her husband Mozzy, and I am so excited to hear more about their money story today. Hello, hello, hello, and thanks for being here.

[Amira]

Hi. Thank you so much for having us. We are pumped to this episode together.

[Mozzy]

So excited.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, I want to know which one of you asked the other one about the student loan debt on the first date?

[Mozzy]

That was me. I was the one who brought that conversation up on the first date. We were having lunch on a lunch date.

[Mindy Jensen]

It wasn't even a dinner date.

[Mozzy]

There were no dates actually on this first date, you know, so I think it was a Sunday brunch kind of thing. And, you know, we're getting, talking, getting to know each other. The question I understood she was in school, but she was in school doing, like, a clinical rotation outside of the state that she was in school. She was in school in Boston, but she was in Houston doing this clinical rotation. And I was just like, wow, that's like, a long ways from home. I was, like, crunching the numbers in my head. I was like, wait a minute. So, like, you're paying for housing and, like, travel, living outside of a place where you're not at school at, like, I just imagined. I was like, man, that's a big undertaking financially, especially living off of student loans. So mentally, I was running the numbers in my head, and that's how we got to. Wait a minute. So how much the Alum dad are going to have after all of this.

[Mindy Jensen]

Did you not want a second date?

[Amira]

It was a good test, I think. I think my response was a good test.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, well, and I want to know how you felt when he asked that because the money nerd in me is so proud of Mazi for asking that. Like, wait a second, what kind of debt are we talking about, girl? But also the romantic in me is like, come on, Mazi, that's not the first date question.

[Amira]

Full transparency. I was older, but I was still pretty new to this concept of dating, honestly. And so I had never been on a first date and had someone ask me anything financially related. So I was like, is this normal? I know I'm a little inexperienced with dating, but is this like, normal? And so, I don't know. I was so taken aback. I was so caught off guard. But it really did kind of give me insight into who Mozzy was as a person on that first date. And I was like, I don't mind it. I like that he is straightforward. I like that he likes transparency. And so I was like, these are all qualities that I, I would enjoy in a partner anyways. But it definitely, it definitely took me back a little bit. But it wasn't a deal breaker, obviously, because here we are married five years later.

[Mindy Jensen]

Before we get all on Amira's case, Mazi, one of you had $275,000, one of you had 230,000. So it's not like you're coming in here all innocent.

[Mozzy]

Fair. Fair. However, I didn't start my debt journey until after we've been dating for about, what was it, eight months. So I was going to graduate school. She was on the tail end of graduate school. And we met, you know, right. Right before I started, about six months before I started and about six months before she ended. So, like, I didn't have that much debt yet. I knew I was going to, but I didn't have that much debt yet. I knew the ROI on what I was going into debt for was kind of worth it, so I wasn't too concerned.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, what did you study?

[Mozzy]

I studied anesthesia. I went to nurse anesthesia school. I was a registered nurse prior to that. So I was working in Houston as a registered nurse in an icu. And then I decided to get into graduate school and studied. It's called certified registered nurse anesthetist.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Freaking power couple.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah.

[Mozzy]

So yeah, I got in. I knew about eight months before that I was going to graduate school. And then we kind of met when we were About. I was out six months out.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so you are starting to date. You're realizing that you're going to have a large amount of student loan debt when you are both done with school. Like, how did that feel? I can I see this number on the paper and I am kind of sweating, and it's not even mine.

[Amira]

I think that we. We knew that the debt was kind of looming while we were dating. But I will say we didn't really have a ton of conversations, really, about my debt in particular. In particular, until we were thinking about marriage. So then we were like, okay, obviously we love each other. We want to get married. We have to talk about finances. And so that's when Mazi kind of re brought into the conversation. Hey, you've graduated, now you're in a lot of student loan debt. And I think that when we realized how much we were going to have collectively, I don't know, I was a lot more like, we'll deal with that when the time comes. Like, we don't have to talk about that right now. Whereas Mozzy was very much like, no, we need a plan of action immediately, like, today. And I was like, I don't even know my total numbers. Like, I don't want to log into my student loan account. I don't want to look at this thing. I just want to ignore it. I'm probably going to be in debt until I die. Like, that was very much my mindset at the time. And it wasn't until we started having those conversations right before we got married that it was like, no, we have to actually, like, come up with a plan to get rid of the debt.

[Mozzy]

Yeah. When we first met, I mean, we both knew, we dated for those six to eight months. It was kind of like, all right, we're going to put a pin in this until, like, you start working and we figure that out. It was always in the back of my mind. But as we got closer to getting married and everything, that's when I was like, okay, like, realistically, like, this is a big number that we're, like, bringing in to, like, both sides of the marriage. We needed to have a plan of action because most people, I don't think she logged into her student loans until I remember we're sitting in, like, our. My little apartment for graduate school. And I was like, you need to actually just log in and see what it is because she was already graduated. I was like, you need to, like, know what, like, just a base payment is for these before, like, we get too far here. So like, that was like, kind of like an eye shocking moment, honestly, when she logged in and we saw the interest that occurred and the actual number.

[Mindy Jensen]

Were you taking out student loans simply for your student costs, like housing and food and school and books and all of that, or were you taking it out for other things as well?

[Amira]

So I max borrowed. I took everything out to cover housing, my car, like, all. All the things that happened during the three years that I was in OT school. And so the loans paid for me to live basically for those three. So I came out with significantly more than I should have because I wasn't watching my living costs. Like, that was the biggest thing. Like, I didn't have a lot of roommates. I lived in a really nice apartment as a grad student. I had a car lease, I took vacations. And I'm super open about admitting all of the mistakes that I made to get to this point. And so it was a massive number, but it's kind of not every OT is in this much student loan debt. I just made a lot of mistakes because I just lacked the financial literacy and the money didn't feel real. As I was taking it out, I was like, oh, I got a refund check. Great, this is income. And it's like, you don't think about the fact that, no, actually, Mary, you have to pay that back later. And so I wasn't. I just wasn't thinking, you know, I wasn't thinking that way. Um, but to answer your question, yeah, the money that I took out was to do all of these different things while I was three years, you know, without. Without really having a real job. I was like a nanny and I did newborn care specialist, but I didn't have an actual job job while I was. While I was in OT school.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. I think that's really important to note. You just said something that's like the million dollar quote of this show. You said the money didn't feel real. It kind of isn't real because it's this like, on paper money, it's on the Internet money. It's not in your hands that you are then paying to somebody. You're just transferring from here to here. It was never yours to begin with. So what is something that you think you would do differently if it had felt real? Or what's a way that it could have felt more real to you? Because, I mean, you're not like. I'm not saying, you know, wow, Amira, what a big mistake. Like, you're not even close. The first person I've Heard say this.

[Amira]

The first thing I would have done differently is think about the actual school I was enrolling in. So I went to a private school that was out of state and a very high cost of living area which made all of my, you know, groceries, rent, everything go up. So I would not have. It was a great school, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't have chosen that school because I really couldn't have. I couldn't afford to have gone to that school. Like, if I think about it on paper, it was a really expensive school. The other thing I would have done differently is the type of degree that I got. So I went for an entry level doctorate, which is really, really expensive. Whereas I could have gone and got. Gotten a master's and then maybe taken a year and done the doctorate program later. At the time, I thought that our profession, it's very similar to pt. There's some differences there. But PT is a required doctorate, and I thought that OT was moving towards a required doctorate. And so that's why I went and got the really expensive degree. So those are definitely the big two factors. I think for me, I should have just went to a cheaper public school, got a master's degree, and kind of went from there. But yeah, that's the. That's a big part I would have done differently, I think. And then there's like, the small things, like, maybe not gone to every single brunch that I was invited to and maybe not gone on, you know, the trip to the tropical overseas. Like, little things that I did that I was like, I probably couldn't really. Like, I probably couldn't have afforded to do that, if I think about it.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Yeah. Or even like, not taking all the loans, because you also said something earlier that was like, I took out the max amount. And I think that a lot of people don't realize that, you know, while you're in that application phase and you're offered these loans, you can decline a couple of them, right. Because it's usually several coming in at once. And so I think that's something that people don't realize too, is that you don't actually have to take every dollar that's offered up to you at that time.

[Mindy Jensen]

My dear listeners, we want to hit 100,000 subscribers on our YouTube channel, and we need your help. While we take a quick ad break, please hop over to YouTube.com biggerpockets money and make sure you are subscribed to that channel. We'll be right back after this. Hey, listeners, are your investments Working as hard as you are here at BiggerPockets, we've partnered with BAM Capital to bring you an effective way to invest. BAM Capital specializes in tax advantaged, multifamily real estate investments designed to help you plan smarter for both your finances and your future. By planning for the year ahead and leveraging the benefits available, you can kickstart your financial growth while maximizing deductions. Learn how BAM Capital's investments can grow your portfolio. Visit BAMCapital.com now that's B A M Capital.com BiggerPockets don't just invest, Invest with purpose.

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[Mindy Jensen]

Thanks for sticking with us.

[Amanda Wolfe]

So my next question then is around what your finances looked like before even meeting and going into school. So what did those look like? It seemed like Mozzie was a little more proactive, if you will, when it came to his finances. And you were more like maybe focused on the end goal of getting your degree. But what did your finances look like before that?

[Mozzy]

Well, to be fair, she never actually started working because, you know, she was undergraduate, graduate, school, no break in between. So that's like that seven years, and that's when I'm there. So she didn't really have the chance to be a working adult. Where me, on the other hand, I was a working adult. I was. I'm a little bit older and I was working as a iCurn for probably 5 years when I met her. So I already have bought in my first house. I already had a paid off car and I already drained down. I think I only had 80,000 coming out of undergraduate and it was at 20,000. So, like, I've already had, like, I was making money, paying for things, investing, investing, traveling. I was doing all that. I was already kind of like full adult at the age of 23. I had a little bit more of a head start, to be fair.

[Amanda Wolfe]

So you were already investing then, Mozzie?

[Mozzy]

Yes.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Okay. And then what about you, Amira?

[Amira]

No. So like you said, I came straight from undergrad, so I honestly still kind of had like college girl mentality. Like, I wasn't thinking about the big girl things. I wasn't thinking about investing for retirement. I wasn't thinking about any of that. But I also didn't have a quote unquote, real job. I was doing nannying work, but that's not, you know, that's like babysitting. And so that was helping fund some of my stuff in college. But I didn't have an actual professional career, so I wasn't. I wasn't really thinking about that kind of stuff, honestly. Very much in goal. I was like, well, once I become an ot, once I have the degree, then I'll think about all of these different things. But I didn't have the income to even sustain, like, thinking about my finances. There's things I should have been doing and I could have been doing, like just tracking my spending, just like watching my overall spending, thinking more about saving. The one thing I will credit myself. I was never into credit cards, so I had a credit card, but I use it very responsibly. So I Never got into credit card debt. I always make sure to pay it, paid it off, you know, that month. So that was like a big thing. The only thing I really thought about was, oh, I can't go into credit card debt. I know that's really bad. But to me, student loan debt and credit card debt were two very different things. And so it may know, like, I didn't bat an eyelash taking out over 200 grand of student loans, but if I had like $200 in my credit card, I would be like, oh my gosh, I can't have that. So I just think we were in two very different seasons of life. Like you said, we're about four years apart. So we were just in very two different seasons of life. So I think that is why we approached our financial situation so differently.

[Amanda Wolfe]

I do want to talk a little bit about your actual debt payoff journey. So you had mentioned that you were pretty aggressive in the last couple of years paying off the debt. So what specifically changed in your approach during that period that accelerated your progress?

[Amira]

I think it starts with the birth of Jaden. Yeah, yeah. So we had, we had our first baby. So Mazi had just graduated, we had our first baby and I decided I wanted to become a stay at home mom. And we made the decision together. We talked about what would that look like financially for me to lose my income. I wasn't making as much as Mazy, but it was still, you know, a significant amount to the household. And so we were like, okay, what does that look like? And so we were like, well, if I don't want to work, then we're going to have to replace my income. And so we started thinking about how can Mozzy replace his income without necessarily having to work more? Because at the time we were living in a place where it's super busy, it was a big city, and he was doing like 24 hour shifts and he would be gone for like two to three days straight. And we had a new baby and we had a newborn and he did that one time and I was like, oh no, I'm gonna lose all my marbles if you do that again. So we gotta figure something else out. And so we started thinking about, it's called Locums, which is very similar travel, nursing. And so you go to high paying locations and you're able to make significantly more without necessarily having to work more. And so we decided to move about three hours from where we were living at the time. We're very far from our friends, our family, I would say that was like, the biggest sacrifice when it came to our debt payoff journey. And it was so that Mozzy would be able to quickly increase his income without necessarily having to be gone more and still give us, like, a really healthy work life balance now that we had a baby. But I think it was definite having a baby. I mean, having a baby just makes you think about everything differently. And so that was for sure, kind of the catalyst with being like, okay, let's figure out how to increase your income. And then in terms of when we decided to get aggressive, it was really. Mozzy was just so tired of the loans, which I'll let you talk more about why you decided to. Because we met with a financial coach, shout out to Shung, she's from Save My Sense. And we met with her and she combed through all of our finances, and she had put us on a plan to pay them off at the end of this year, and we paid it off at the beginning of this year. So we were pretty early in her plan that she made for us. But I guess I'll let you share why you decided to get aggressive.

[Mozzy]

Yeah, so you kind of start obsessing over it when you're paying these. At least I did. I would, like, log in and, like, look at the balance like, three or four times a day. Like, it was becoming obsessive to the point where, like, you knew down to the scent how much you had. You knew down to the cent how much interest occurred from the last time you logged in. And you knew, like, hey, when I get paid, I'm gonna put this much on it. And, like, it became a little bit of an addiction, honestly. You wanted to see the number gone. And you really gained some steam when, like, you saw that principal balance going down. Because most people, when they pay their loans off, they do, like, maybe once a month payment interest takes like, a big chunk, and then, like, the rest goes to principal. But, like, when you see that principal number going down in big chunks, like, mentally, it feels your fire, or you try to at least make it seem like it does. It makes you want to do it again and again and again. And like, it's almost becomes like a game. Like, oh, wow. Like, I see it went from, like, you know, 60 to, like, now 50. And like, that, like, just makes you sleep a little better at night. And, like, less interest is being a cure. And, like, you just get the steam and you just go after it. Yeah. So I had to obsess over it for a good two years. And, like, I really started, like, the last year, like, just like nothing else mattered other than like getting that balance to zero. I really wanted to be done before the beginning of this year, but we had another baby and we slowed us, slowed it down a little bit.

[Amanda Wolfe]

I hear babies are expensive, huh?

[Mozzy]

Yeah, they're not cheap.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so Mazi, I hear the obsession. I understand where you're coming from, but. And I had a similar obsession. Don't think that I'm like perfect in every way, because I'm not. My whole fi journey was, was very much like head down, nose to the grindstone. Do it, do it, do it. And we didn't take time to stop and smell the roses. How do you balance the immediate goal of debt payoff with living your life with investing for the future? How, how did you specifically balance it or did you not? I mean, I didn't balance it at all. We saved for the future and did nothing fun.

[Mozzy]

No, we, we definitely saved for the future. So a little background. We. I chose a place where, you know, they, they cover my housing, they pay a higher rate. I could work a little bit more hours. And I had like a pretty cool schedule where like I'm home during the mornings, I just go in in the evening so I could help out with breakfast and lunch with the babies. So we had to move far away to find this location that had hit all those boxes. They paid me enough where if I worked like I couldn' do the student loan journey. However, like I could take like not make a student loan payment. And then that was our payment for fun. So for example, for her 30th birthday, we went to a Caribbean island and hung out. Got to take a week off. I just didn't make a student loan payment. That, and that kind of like extended it out a little longer. But I, I did recognize like, you know, you got to take your smell the roses moment, you know, especially after two years and then having, you know, the kids too. Like you have to like enjoy and smell the flowers. However, our baseline would have like moments of joy, but our baseline was still very low. Housing and housing debt or cost to live. And when we're just doing our regular day to day, most our income went.

[Amira]

To the loans because we kept the, our expenses so low. So we didn't pay for housing. Both of our cars are paid off. I think our biggest, like it's probably groceries and Pilates. Honestly that's like our two biggest expenses right now. So we, we definitely budgeted for those. But I think our income was able support. Like you said, those little moments of joy because I, I was not going to let him just obsess over the loans and then not have any fun for several years. Like I was like, we can't do that. So I think I brought, I brought a little bit of the balance too to mozzy because I wasn't quite obsessing over them. I definitely wanted to see them gone too. But I was also like, we have to enjoy life at the same time. Like, I don't subscribe to just, you know, eating off.

[Amanda Wolfe]

What did your saving and investing look like during that debt pay down journey? So did you guys take a pause during that? Were you doing little bits?

[Mozzy]

I did the bare min just to reach whatever the maximum retirement for the 401k was. It wasn't a ton. We didn't do any extra investing. We didn't do any saving really other than just we kept a three month emergency.

[Amira]

We have a eight month emergency fund that we saved a long time ago before we even had our first. So we didn't prioritize saving money necessarily because we already had an emergency fund. So we, any extra money really went towards investing. But we did already have. I just want to be clear, we did already have a healthy emergency fund. So that's why we weren't like needing to necessarily save money.

[Mozzy]

Yeah.

[Amira]

And we, and we did Investing for like 529, 29 HSA. Yeah, those things.

[Mozzy]

We maxed out the accounts that would make sense. But we didn't do anything extra like a tax brokerage.

[Amira]

But you do have a tax brokerage.

[Amanda Wolfe]

I do now, now that the debt has been paid down. So yeah. What is. Because the debt paydown journey is very recent. Right. So now you guys probably feel like you're just flush with cash, I'm guessing. So what do you guys, what does it look like now? How are you saving and investing now that the debts paid off?

[Amira]

And you also didn't add that you're an independent contractor. And so one of the big pieces to the puzzle, we have an amazing tax team who's really good at tax strategy. They don't just input numbers and that's it, but they actually help us save most of the money that he makes, which is like massive. When you're trying to pay off that much, you have to be able to like actually save money and not owe so much in taxes. So I think that was a big part that maybe Mazzy didn't say yet was he's a contractor and so saving on taxes allowed us to put big chunks too.

[Mindy Jensen]

I want to point out that you are using a tax strategist. I love that so much for you because you are in a higher income bracket. You could just have a lot of money going to the government. And I always want to pay all the taxes that I have to. I never want to pay any taxes that I don't have to. And there are these. They're not even loophol goals. They are strategies that you don't know, that you don't know. So if you find yourself in a similar position, have a conversation with the tax strategist. Whatever your tax strategist is costing you, they will almost always save you way more than that because they introduce you to these concepts. You're like, I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know that I could, you know, deduct this from my taxes. I didn't know I could alter my, my income in this way. And then all of a sudden, all of these doors open up. So clearly I'm making a lot of that up because I am not a tax. But if you, you know, if you find yourself with a lot of income, don't jump over dollars to save pennies by not going to the tax strategist and having a conversation. I mean, you don't have to do this all the time. You do this, like, at the beginning of the year, and they're like, hey, look at all these things you could potentially do. Which ones work for your mentality, your goals, your strategies, your income, et cetera. And you can pick and choose from multiple. So, yeah, if you don't have a tax strategist, you need to find one like a CPA or, I mean, just Google tax strategists in your area. Ask your friends. Ask your rich friends.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Your rich friends.

[Amira]

So that's what I mean, that's where we are now. We do have this influx of cash every month that's not going to the loans. And we don't necessarily have all of the deductions that we had before when we were paying off the loans. And so I think for us, we're trying to be very strategic in our spending so that we don't owe so much in taxes next year. Yeah, I think that's. That's a big thing. And also, we're going on a vacation next month.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Oh, there you go. So more vacations, too?

[Amira]

Yes, for sure. Yeah.

[Mozzy]

Yeah. This will be the first time that we actually had this much money coming in without necessarily a huge debt payment that we're attacking. So we're kind of starting. We're just in the beginning stages of living it.

[Amira]

Right now, it's mostly just going towards retirement, I think, at this point.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Yes, well, and hopefully a little living today, like you mentioned, so some vacation. Yeah. A little bit of balance. And because I was wondering earlier, you know, hearing Mozzy, if you thought you had overcorrected in life at all. And it sounds like maybe there were, like, some blips there, but you guys are bringing really good balance to each other's lives. I think when it comes to. To all the money stuff, even if the conversation on date one started like a little. A little, like, in your face kind of situation, but it sounds like you guys. You guys brought, like, really good balance. So. So then my question would be to you, Amira. What role did your partnership with Mozzy play in your own success? And what advice would you give to couples who might be avoiding some difficult money conversations?

[Amira]

That is such a good question. So I will say he was truly the catalyst for me, like, getting my act together when it came to money. I stopped being so afraid to have those conversations, and I kind of did, like, a complete flip. And now I do financial coaching for other OTs and other healthcare professionals because I'm so passionate about just increasing financial literacy, not making the same mistakes. That's why I'm super, super open with my mistakes on my financial journey, because I think that if I would have had someone like me in my life, maybe I wouldn't have done some of those things to land in so much debt. And so I think that I really credit him with, like, pulling me out of my little turtle shell and being like, okay, we can talk about money in a really healthy way. I think a lot of times you think of talking about money in a marriage is just fighting about money, but it can be really, really healthy to have those conversations. And so we didn't mention this. We eloped, so we got engaged. I don't know, like, three weeks later. It was like less than a month later, we decided, we went to Sedona and we eloped under a rock. And it was the best decision ever. But we knew going into marriage that because it was so quickly that it happened, we were like, hey, money is like one of the top things that people fight about, and we don't want to fight about money. And so we had just like, really, really open conversations. And so I think it's helped overall to our communication, because when you're so open talking about one of the most uncomfortable topics, money, it makes communication in a marriage, I think, so much easier I can go to him with, with, you know, really, really anything and not feel that, like, that discomfort because we have tackled the most. One of the most uncomfortable subjects in a marriage. And so I think it has helped just our overall communication, you know, as husband and wife. And then I think my. My biggest piece of advice to couples would really just be to have those conversations. Like, it is uncomfortable, but, you know, it's also really uncomfortable to be fighting about money. And so wouldn't you rather have those discussions and being able to just align with, like, your financial goals and the. The dreams that you have for yourself to support the life, you know, that you're envisioning for your family? So it's kind of almost like rip the band aid. And I think I get this mentality from him for sure, with rip the band Aid off with things. And yeah, just know the first few conversations, it might be a little uncomfy, but eventually you'll get on the same page and also seek out outside support if you need it. Like I said, I was doing financial coaching, and I still hired a financial coach because I wanted a different lens, a different perspective on our situation. And she really helped us to ask the right questions to each other. Like, hey, Amirah is okay with prolonging the student loans for a little bit more and maybe investing more. Like, how do you feel about that, Mazi? And so she kind of helped guide that conversation too. So if you need to have an outside person come in, there are so many people within, like the financial coaching space and personal finance that specialize in talking to married couples and helping you to have those conversations. But they have to be had. They're. They're so important. And I think it makes for. I know I'm not even. I think I know that it makes for a very, very healthy partnership.

[Mindy Jensen]

You have now paid off all of your student loan debt. What is your current debt picture look like? Like housing or, you know, anything else that you've got? Is it just the mortgage?

[Mozzy]

So the house I owned back in Houston, I turned into a rental. So that's still the only debt we have. And that's it? That's it.

[Mindy Jensen]

Wow. Okay, great. So from 500,000 five years ago to a mortgage where I'm assuming the rent.

[Mozzy]

Covers the mortgage, the rent covers the mortgage. I think it was back in the day when $300,000 could get you a house. It's a townhouse in the medical center in Houston. And I think there's like maybe like 2 20, but the interest rate's like 2.9%, something unheard of. And yeah, the renters have been renting consistently since I started school and have never left. So it's. It's been great.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so where is your money going specifically now? And let's look at, like, balances. What is your net worth and what is your, you know, where is all that in your portfolio?

[Mozzy]

So the market has taken a turn in the last couple months.

[Amira]

That's why I was like, do we.

[Mozzy]

Want to talk about this?

[Amira]

You sure?

[Mozzy]

So before we had some things implemented nationwide, we were sitting at a net worth of closer, around 700,000.

[Mindy Jensen]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Mozzy]

Yeah. So honestly, back when, like, like you said, when I was a young pup and someone told me to put. Put 10% of when I was working as an ICU nurse into. I'll never see it. I'll never worry about it. I did exactly that. And like, when I started graduate school, I think it was like 200 or 300, just sitting in a 401k. And of course it grows over time. I've added more to it since I've started working. It just grew with the S and P. I didn't do anything fancy, just put it in the S and P and just let it ride. So it's grown up to about that. And I had a tax brokerage account I started putting money, dumping money into, and I still just invest in the S and P. So all that together collectively with the house was around 700, give or take. The downswings we've had.

[Mindy Jensen]

And what is your timeline for retirement? Are you on the early retirement path or are you just amassing savings for the future?

[Mozzy]

Right, so that's what the. The coach was. That we got. We wanted to. My fire number was 10 million.

[Amira]

Is. You haven't changed.

[Mozzy]

Is 10 million. And I want to obtain fire by the age of 52 is what we marched out. So we have to start aggressively. Pretty much. The loan. The money that I was putting towards my student loans will now be going towards investing in retirement.

[Mindy Jensen]

You're hoping to spend $33,000 a month in retirement?

[Mozzy]

Yes.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. And what do you spend this money on? And I'm just asking. I know that it nurse enough the tests, which is such a hard word.

[Amira]

It's a hard word to say.

[Mozzy]

It's a tongue tie. It's tongue tied. You get to say crna.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, my uncle is a. Is one of those. So I'm familiar with the term. I just can't say it. But where is 33,000amonth going? Which is Your, like, If that's, if $10 million is your fire number and you get to that, you can absolutely, per the 4% rule, spend the 33,000. I just, I know that people listening are used to that number being a little smaller.

[Mozzy]

Well, I'm assuming with inflation, 10 million today is not going to be 10 million tomorrow. So I would imagine 33,000amonth would feel more closer to like 25,000. And based off what we're spending now a month, we're around about 20, 25,000, give or take. Given what we make and how much we spend on months, housing probably won't be a factor. Hopefully not a factor come that time. But we also are active. We like to travel, we like to do things. So I just kind of want to, I was just trying to base it off of what I'm doing now. Now, of course, if we fall a little short of that number, it's not the end of the world. It's still a healthy amount. But I was kind of just shooting for the moon on that one and trying to replicate our current living situation.

[Amira]

A lot of it, honestly, goes towards travel. So, like, if we think of it like a travel sinking fund that we contribute to each month and then we take maybe two trips, but we take big trips, like a pretty significant travel trip. So I would say a big chunk of that spending is, is going towards saving for travel.

[Mozzy]

Yeah.

[Amira]

Because we also do things where we bring in our family and we don't want to have to burden them with, you know, paying for a bunch of stuff. And so we'll get like just a massive Airbnb or, or something like that. So we do a lot of traveling, but we love to bring our family with us.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, can I be your family? Is my first question. Also, how much are you spending right now? Do you track your spending at all? Do you know how much you're. You're spending right now?

[Amira]

Yes. So it's a little complicated because we have like the personal side and the business side. So personal side hovers around 8 to 9k per month. And that's everything from. Honestly, we spend a lot on wellness, I'm not gonna lie. We spend a lot on like self care wellness. And by we I mean, I kind of mean me. Mazi also is really into like gym memberships and training and things like that. And so that's a big chunk of it. Also groceries where we live, it's really expensive for groceries. And we're the type of people, we love steak, we love lamb, and we. That's an area that we've tried to cut back so many times, but Mazzy's like, I don't want to go to the grocery store and not be able to get my steak if I want to have steak. And so we could be probably a little bit more cognizant. But just given his income, it's something that we're comfortable splurging on groceries to be able to get, you know, whatever snacks or food that we want to get and not have to worry too much about it. So I would say wellness groceries.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Well, and it's also, you have two kids, so it's like I was going to say.

[Amira]

And the kids. Yeah, those. Yeah.

[Mozzy]

I mean, little guys. Yeah, those.

[Amira]

Yeah. We do a lot of activities with the kids. We have, like, our toddler in a mountain biking program right now here, like swim lessons, all these. It's like the little things kind of add up. So on the personal side, yeah, I would say about 8 to 9k a month. And then on the business side, what would you say?

[Mozzy]

It's mainly just in taxes.

[Amira]

It's mainly tax, but you have to pay taxes every month, so that's a big chunk.

[Mozzy]

Taxes eat a lot.

[Amira]

And paying yourself.

[Mozzy]

And paying. I pay myself.

[Amira]

Yeah.

[Mozzy]

Which isn't a ton, but taxes, paying myself, that's. That's about it. It used to be the student loans for that.

[Amira]

Yeah.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay. So when you stop working, then your taxes go away. Like, I'm assuming that your business income covers all of your business expenses. So I would even push that to the side. I did quick math. I rounded up for you to $10,000 a month, which is a PHI number of $3 million per the 4% rule, which is a very different number than 10 million. That's going to be a lot longer timeline to amass, and I'm just wondering if there's any way you can shorten that a little bit. I have reached financial independence. My husband and I did it seven years ago, eight years ago, maybe maybe nine years ago. But then, oh, well, one more year, we'll just. We'll just work one more year. I'm not sure if the numbers work. And then the market continued to go up and our number, our. Our net worth continued to go up. He finally quit his job when we had 2x our fine number, which was based on our spending at the time. That spending has gone up a little bit because our fine number has actually increase. Increased quite a bit more than just because we had such a great market. I have seen the last couple of months just like you have, Mozzy. I have not been a fan of the down market that keeps going down it goes. I am combating this by just not looking at it because I'm not, I'm not pulling out of the, of the market right now. So it's, it's an on paper loss, but I just don't want to look at that paper because that loss is real hard to watch. So I just, I just threw out some numbers at where what you're spending now is more of a $3 million FI number.

[Amira]

It doesn't take into account, I think, the travel.

[Mindy Jensen]

Have you listened to our episode 606 where we featured the points guy talking about how he's opening up credit cards to get these, these travel rewards so that he can then spend it that way. He gave us lots of tips on different cards to open up and different, different ways to travel without spending all the money that you're traveling.

[Amira]

That was my goal last year, was to get into travel hacking. I had like a whole plan. Then I found out I was pregnant again. And I was like, that plan has gone out the window and I just haven't picked it back up. And so Mozzy has told me so many times, he's like, you really have to figure out this whole travel hacking thing, because I have friends who do it and are very successful. I think we, we played around with it. We would. We went to Hawaii maybe a year ago in like December, and I think we used our Amex cart to travel hack and get like a room upgrade and free breakfast, some little things like that. But I have not gone all in just because I am, am overwhelmed by it. But I will definitely check out that episode. I think that's, it's good. I need to get back into like, my goal of figuring out travel hacking.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, 100% right there with you. I am super, super busy and I have done the most bare minimum travel hacking that I have ever been able to do.

[Mozzy]

All right, question, Mindy. When you and your, your partner were planning for your fire, were you planning 20 years in advance in accounting for inflation, or are you playing what I'm spending now? Like you said, we're spending 10,000amonth now, but 20 years from now, how much is $10,000 worth?

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, so we didn't do that kind of math. We read the Bill Bengan article, the 4%, the original 4% rule article that he published in like 1996 or 1998, and we're like, okay, this makes sense. Sense, because he like lays it all it's a really long article, very in depth. If you don't have a copy of it, I'm happy to send it to you. It's kind of hard to find because it was only in print back in the 1900s when they didn't have the Internet. But it's, it's a great article. We're like, you know what, this makes sense based on a 30 year time frame. When you are spending this much, you can have this much money and it'll last you for 30 years. So we're like, that'll totally work. We're totally going to do that. We didn't think about inflation, we didn't think about lifestyle creep. Our original 4% rule you're gonna laugh at this was based on spending $40,000 a year. Oh, we spend $40,000 a year at, at that time, we don't anymore. We spend.

[Amanda Wolfe]

You're gonna be camping.

[Mozzy]

It sounds like, what's the tent only?

[Mindy Jensen]

No mattress pad. At the time, my house cost me $176,000. You can't get that here anymore.

[Mozzy]

The way we're going now, like, like, I mean, even a vehicle these days is anywhere from 60 to $70,000 now. Average house is roughly around $500,000 now. And that's right now. 20 years from now. I can only imagine what the average cost is for lifestyle. Which is why, although 3 million would be sufficient for us now, 3 million in 20 years might be a little less.

[Amanda Wolfe]

We have to take one final ad break and we'll be back with more from Amira and Matthew.

[Mindy Jensen]

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[Amanda Wolfe]

Welcome back to the show.

[Mindy Jensen]

I just want to propose thinking about the number because you don't want to continue working for, you know, 20 more years, then retire, then discover, oh, inflation wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I really did only need three or five million dollars. I worked too long and I didn't incorporate all of this stuff into my life. Now if you are more of a Ramit Sethi fan and you are continuing to enjoy your rich life while saving for retirement, that's really different. But I'm going back to Mozzie who was obsessed with his money and nose to the grindstone and focusing and checking it four times a day. I hope you're not checking it four times a day now.

[Mozzy]

I only log in once a week just to make sure it still says zero.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, okay. Once a week is great. But yeah, I just, I want to make sure that you have a realistic number or you are continuing to think about it. Oh, now we're at 3 million million. I still feel like I need A little bit more or Now I'm at 5 million. You know what, we aren't increasing our spending so much. Maybe it is a good time to rethink what I'm doing. Or you know what, you hit 3 million and you're like, I really like my job. I'm going to keep working one day a week or one week a month or however you can do it. Because once you have a lot of experience and there's still a shortage of healthcare workers, once you have this experience, you can kind of dictate your own schedule or, you know, more so than fresh out of college person. So more. I just want to plant a seed like, hey, maybe 10 million doesn't have to be the number. Revisit it once a year or, you know, once a quarter, not four times a day.

[Amira]

That's good.

[Amanda Wolfe]

I think that's good because I, I, we were on an episode together, Mindy, where you said that that was one of your, I don't know if financial regret is the term that you used, but like, I wish we had checked in on it more because we were worked far longer than we needed to and it was just unnecessary and we missed out on, you know, some more leisure time, if you will. So I think that's good advice, that being said, to kind of piggyback off of that. So obviously the road to 10 million is probably a little ways away here. So what are you going to do to stay on track for that goal? And have you considered potentially like reducing that number and then maybe just working on the business, not working full time? Like, have you explored or thought about any other avenues? Or is it going to be kind of like, head down, let's get to 10 million. What is, what is that going to look like?

[Mozzy]

Well, I don't think it'll be nearly as aggressive as it was when we were paying off the student loans. That was much more head down, like nothing else matters other than this. I think on the road to 10 million, it's definitely more of the journey. And like I said, 10 million was like more of a, like it's a soft number that we threw out there. Just like I think, you know, spending roughly around 40,000amonth is like, we're good, like we're comfortable no matter what the circumstances have. We should be, be, we should be a. Okay, how we're going to get there. That's what our financial coach Shung laid out for us. It's still a heavy investing amount in a tax brokerage account, pretty much throwing it into the S&P expecting closer to 7 to 8% returns. And what it looked like is roughly about 15 to $20,000 a month that we would be investing. And that should roughly get us there by the age of 52.

[Amanda Wolfe]

And so not knowing how old you are now, so how many years away is that?

[Mozzy]

That 34 now.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Okay, 34 now because I'm already thinking like the kids will grow up at some point, so like those expenses will go away.

[Amira]

We also are thinking about our parents as they get older and being in a position to comfortably take care of them, which is a conversation, you know, we don't love to have, but it's a conversation we have to have. And so I think too Mozzy had kind of built in a little bit of a buffer to be able, whatever that ends up looking like for our parents, but knowing that although we have siblings, it likely will be us as the ones who are kind of those plans for our parents. So I think adding that into why that number, maybe he wanted to go larger.

[Amanda Wolfe]

So this is the whole family retirement fund.

[Amira]

Yeah, he didn't really mention that. But it's not just us. It's not. It wouldn't just be for taking care of us, it's our kids, our parents.

[Amanda Wolfe]

Like, yeah, that makes more sense.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah, I appreciate the context in that. And that's, that makes that number more, more understandable, more reasonable because it isn't just you guys. So that's cultural thing. I'm not planning to support my parents in their age, but they also have like taken care of it themselves.

[Amira]

No, we're like first generation investors.

[Mozzy]

I feel like, I think just financial mindset.

[Amira]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mozzy]

Both our parents, they don't. Retirement wasn't a thing that they really thought about like finances wasn't a really thing that they planned for like all the above. Like they just, it wasn't, it was more of just, you know, work, get paid, pay your bills, repeat not. Oh, like I'm going to be 65. Like, what am I going to live off of? None of that. Like, luckily my mom house is paid off. Other than that, like she didn't have much of a retirement.

[Amira]

We just want to be able to like Social Security is it.

[Mozzy]

Oh, Social Security will be there. And that's like the extent of their retirement planning.

[Mindy Jensen]

That is a lot more understandable with this $10 million number and 20 years. It sounds like you're, you're definitely adding stuff back into your life now that you're not paying down the debt anymore. You're adding in the enjoyment and the Fun and the travel everywhere. So, yeah, I've got just a little bit of homework for you, Amira, to go and listen to. Episode 606 so you can start learning about travel hacking without having to do all the work. Because it's a lot. I have done none of the work. I opened up, like two credit cards. That's my travel hacking.

[Amanda Wolfe]

That's your travel hacking. Perfect. Learn more from Mindy on travel hacking.

[Mozzy]

I am kind of curious, what is the average number of people are putting for their fire or like, what is a more reasonable number that people kind of kind of shoot towards?

[Mindy Jensen]

$1 million was like the number for the longest time. And then people are like, you know, I would really rather have a more robust retirement. So I hear 3 million. I hear, and 3 million, you're spending, you know, $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year. Year. I hear 5 million kind of on the outside. I've heard people say 10 and 20 million, counting only for themselves. And the way they say it, a lot of time just sounds like I just threw a number out there. Sure, I'd love to have $10 million. If anybody wants to write a check, that's J E N S E n, send me $10 million. I'm totally cool with that. I'll even pay all the taxes. I also see people working far longer than they had to to because they had this number in mind that either didn't come from doing all of the math or they were like, well, I want to have this big, lavish lifestyle in the future. Well, you could have a lavish lifestyle now. Oh, no, I don't spend money now. And I know from personal experience if you don't spend money now, you're not going to spend money later. I spend a little bit more than I used to, but I don't spend a lot. But because of the way I was brought up, we didn't have any money. My parents are children of the Depression. Like, my dad's one of seven, my mom's one of eight. There was never enough money for anybody, so they never spent money. And they took that to heart. And they're like, well, now that we have money, we can't spend it. And I am following along in their footsteps. So it's difficult. It doesn't sound, and I don't mean this like in a bad way, but it doesn't sound like you are having a hard time spending the money so you will be able to enjoy, you know, now and in the future. Future.

[Amira]

That makes sense. And there's all kind of fires now. There's like, lean fire, fat barista fires, like a new one. I heard.

[Amanda Wolfe]

I've not heard of barista fire.

[Amira]

There's like, all these different ones that you can, you know.

[Mindy Jensen]

Yeah. There's all different flavors. You can choose your own adventure. It's awesome. I just. I just want to make sure that you are working long enough, not too long, because one more year syndrome is absolutely a incurable syndrome here in the fire community.

[Mozzy]

Yeah, I mean, we're definitely getting a sense of how much is enough. Even when it just comes to income and, you know, hours of working, we're kind of hitting that road, that crossroad of, like, all right, we're not in debt anymore, so we don't have to stay making or doing what you're doing to claw out of debt. But I also have this sick syndrome of. Of wanting to make more than that. Well, yeah, I'm not in debt, but I'm also now at zero, essentially. I finally clawed out of the pit, and now I want to see what it's like, oh, maybe making this sort of kind of money and getting to, like, do more, like, beneficial things or enjoying. Enjoying it a little bit more, whereas.

[Amira]

I'm like, we can take a pay cut, move back closer to family, settle down, like, stop this whole travel thing. So that I think that's definitely where we are now is just determining kind of what direction. Direction we want to go in. Do we want to stay at this income and being able to, you know, aggressively invest in all these different things, or can we, like, slow down a little bit and make different lifestyle changes?

[Mozzy]

That's currently the crossroad we're at right now.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, well, I think that's. That's a, you know, it'll come in time as you're now paying attention more to where the income is going, where this, like, how much extra savings you have, because, you know, once you have hit your number and stopped retiring, you're also not going to be saving any anymore. So that's income that you don't need to account for. So I just think there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of moving parts and, and you're. You're conscious of it. And that's the best of all of this, is that you're. You're thinking about it. Okay. Amira and Mazi, this was such a fun conversation. I'm so thankful for your time. Where can people find you online?

[Amira]

Yes. So Mazi's not online. So you want to find something It'll be with me. So I have a podcast called the Money Matters and Occupational Therapy Podcast. And, and so that's a really fun place where I bring on guests and we have all the conversations about money and finance that we should have had in school, but we never did. And so that's a really fun podcast to listen to if you want to check that out. And then on Instagram, I'm at marvelous miracles with two Rs. Ot. I'm sure everything will be in the show notes, but that's where I share more about just finances and life as a stay at home mom, being an occupational therapist, all that. And then we have a really exciting new project coming out that we, we can't share too much about, but just know it's a platform that we're building to help connect healthcare professionals with the financial support and literacy and resources that they need. So we're super excited about that where we just hired like, you know, all the business consultants, branding coaches, we're going through the trademark process, all that fun stuff, but it's really going to be centered around being able to just have specifically healthcare professionals have that support that they, that we don't really get in school. And so be on the lookout for that. And I'm sure I'll mention it in my podcast and on my Instagram page.

[Mindy Jensen]

As I was just gonna say, can I go to marvelous miracles with two Rs and find out information about that when it's been announced?

[Amira]

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. And we're, we're planning to be at fincon this year to be able to chat more about that. So I will meet you in real life. Oh my gosh. Yay.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, wonderful. Well, Amira and Mazi, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it and we will talk to you soon.

[Amira]

Thank you so much for having us. Mindy and Amanda.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, that was Amira and Motsi and I, I loved their story. Amanda, I loved how he wasn't afraid to ask in an open, not accusatory way about her student loan debt on their first date. I mean, that's quite the bold move there. But it clearly worked out because it set the tone for their entire relationship. We are going to be conscious about our money. The answer that she gave also set the tone. Oh, well, here it is. Not being defensive, not being offended that he acts asked. It was just a get to know you question and she gave him a, you know, matter of fact answer. And I think there's a lot more great money tips from people. Just when you have this, this mindset of I'm going to ask a question openly and I'm going to answer the question honestly as opposed to, you know, getting all up in your feelings about it. What did you think of the show, Amanda?

[Amanda Wolfe]

I totally agree it was a bold move to ask that question on date one for sure. But I also felt like it was so refreshing to hear how their relationship had kind of evolved over time. Having two completely different spending, saving and investing styles. You know, he was kind of like nose to the ground right from day one, whereas she's more like, oh, this is monopoly money. Let's, you know, I'll worry about this later. But then it seems like they've really just kind of became their best selves, coming together and balancing each other out. And now that they've were able to pay, pay off like what, half a million dollars worth of student loan debt, build their family, travel, like, I think that they are just a really beautiful picture of what can be. When you start those money conversations really, really early. Because money is the thing that fuels all the other things in life.

[Mindy Jensen]

Absolutely. Start those money conversations early. Especially because if you're listening to this show, money conversations, money topics, finance in general is important to you. So so don't partner up with somebody that it isn't important to. Or if you are already partnered up, start having these conversations so you can get on the same page. All right, Amanda, should we get outta here?

[Amanda Wolfe]

Let's do it.

[Mindy Jensen]

That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. She is the Amanda Wolf. She Wolf of Wall Street. I am Mindy Jensen saying gotta go Buffalo.

[E]

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