When You Should (and Shouldn’t) Hire a Financial Advisor | Life After FIRE

Summary

BiggerPockets Money Podcast Summary

Episode: When You Should (and Shouldn’t) Hire a Financial Advisor | Life After FIRE
Release Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Mindy Jensen
Guest: Amy
Transcript Duration: [00:00] – [45:25]

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Introduction to Life After FIRE

In this episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, Mindy Jensen introduces a new YouTube series titled Life After FIRE, focusing on individuals who have achieved financial independence and are navigating life beyond FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early). Mindy welcomes her friend Amy, who shares her personal journey towards financial independence and her experiences post-FIRE, particularly as a single woman managing her finances after a significant life event.

Amy’s Journey to Financial Independence

Amy recounts her path to financial independence, beginning in 2015 when she discovered the Mr. Money Mustache blog, likely through Get Rich Slowly. Inspired by the blog's pivotal article, "The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement," Amy became intrigued by the concept of saving 25 times her annual expenses to retire early.

Amy [00:56]: "If you can save 25 times your expenses, then guess what, you can retire. And I remember just being like, kind of skeptical but very, very intrigued by this."

Initially skeptical, Amy shared her findings with her then-husband, Phil, who was dismissive at first. However, as they delved deeper into the math and potential, both became excited and committed to the FIRE journey. By 2016, they officially set their financial independence timeline, initially expecting to reach their goals in eight years, though they achieved it significantly sooner.

Adjusting Spending and Savings Strategies

Once committed to FIRE, Amy and Phil made strategic adjustments to their financial habits. Although they were already proficient savers—maxing out their 401(k)s and IRAs—they chose to scale back on discretionary spending to accelerate their savings.

Amy [03:31]: "We stopped going out to eat. We stopped traveling for the most part, except for very minimalist road trips. We did start sourcing things from Craigslist and the Habitat Restore."

This period involved what Amy describes as "experimental deprivation," where they rigorously evaluated every expense, questioning the necessity of even minor purchases like a 99-cent chapstick.

The Challenge of Experimental Deprivation

Amy reflects on the first year of intensified saving, acknowledging the mental strain it placed on her and Phil. While monthly financial check-ins were initially motivating—turning savings progress into a game—the relentless denial of discretionary spending led to fatigue.

Amy [05:56]: "It was not very fun. It turns out mentally it's kind of hard to like see your balances go up and up and up and still be telling yourself no all the time."

By the end of the first year, both partners recognized the need to balance their strict saving habits with some discretionary spending to enhance their quality of life without derailing their financial goals.

The Importance of Monthly Check-Ins

Regular financial check-ins played a crucial role in maintaining their FIRE trajectory. These meetings were both analytical and celebratory, allowing Amy and Phil to track their progress and adjust their strategies as needed.

Amy [07:23]: "Those meetings were super fun because it was like, look at the progress we made. Look how much money we saved this month."

However, despite the initial excitement, the monotony of constant savings led to a desire for more financial freedom, prompting them to gradually allow more flexibility in their spending habits in subsequent years.

Life Changes and Hiring a Financial Advisor

Amy’s journey took an unexpected turn following the tragic death of her husband, Phil, due to a biking accident in September 2020. Suddenly faced with managing their finances alone, Amy realized the need for professional assistance.

Amy [15:01]: "I knew very quickly that I was going to need help managing the money aspects... I started trying to figure out, okay, how am I going to do this?"

Through a connection with Charles Schwab, Amy was referred to a financial advisement firm. This partnership became pivotal in helping her navigate the complexities of financial management during a profoundly challenging personal time.

Breaking Stereotypes in the FIRE Community

Amy addresses the often-taboo topic of hiring financial advisors within the FIRE community, where there exists a stigma that outsourcing financial management is a sign of weakness or incompetence.

Amy [20:26]: "Financial advisors at all are kind of controversial. If you have one, it's often kind of frowned upon."

Contrary to these prevailing attitudes, Amy emphasizes that her choice to work with an assets under management (AUM) financial advisor has been instrumental in maintaining her financial stability and peace of mind post-FIRE.

Benefits of Having a Financial Advisor

Amy details the multifaceted benefits her financial advisor provides, extending beyond mere investment management. The advisor assists with comprehensive financial planning, including insurance audits, estate planning, and tax optimization.

Amy [21:43]: "They allow me to sleep at night. I'm not worried that I'm going to make a wrong move... My financial advisor makes me feel safe."

This holistic approach has enabled Amy to feel secure and confident in her financial decisions, especially critical after the loss of her husband.

Choosing the Right Financial Advisor

Mindy Jensen and Amy discuss the importance of selecting a financial advisor who aligns with one's personal and financial needs. Amy distinguishes between fee-only advisors and those charging based on assets under management, advocating for the latter in her specific situation due to the depth and ongoing support they provide.

Amy [40:52]: "I really have no plans to change at this point. I'm not going to say never, but it is not in my immediate field of vision as, like, oh, I want to cut costs, and this is where I'm going to do it."

Mindy reinforces the idea that listeners should evaluate their financial needs and choose advisors who offer the services and support that best fit their circumstances.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Mindy and Amy affirm the value of hiring a financial advisor, especially in complex or transitional life stages. They advocate for personalized financial management solutions, emphasizing that utilizing professional advice is a smart and valid choice.

Mindy Jensen [44:27]: "If you like this person, if you're comfortable, like, understand the fee structure. But if you're comfortable with the fee structure, then you're just paying for a service that you value. And anybody who tells you that you're wrong, they're wrong."

Amy concurs, highlighting the continued benefits she receives from her advisor and expressing confidence in her decision.

Amy [44:45]: "My money, my choice."

Mindy concludes the episode by encouraging listeners to make informed and personal decisions regarding their financial management, regardless of external opinions.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Personalized Financial Management: Hiring a financial advisor can provide tailored support, especially during significant life changes or when managing finances alone.
2. Breaking Community Stigmas: The FIRE community's skepticism towards financial advisors is challenged by personal success stories like Amy's.
3. Comprehensive Support: Beyond investment management, financial advisors can assist with insurance, estate planning, and tax optimization, offering holistic financial security.
4. Peace of Mind: Professional financial management can alleviate stress and provide confidence in financial decisions, particularly in times of personal upheaval.
5. Choice and Empowerment: Ultimately, decisions about financial management should align with individual needs and comfort levels, regardless of community norms.

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Notable Quotes:

• Amy [00:56]: "If you can save 25 times your expenses, then guess what, you can retire."
• Amy [05:56]: "It was not very fun. It turns out mentally it's kind of hard to like see your balances go up and up and up and still be telling yourself no all the time."
• Amy [21:43]: "They allow me to sleep at night. I'm not worried that I'm going to make a wrong move."
• Mindy Jensen [44:27]: "If you like this person, if you're comfortable, like, understand the fee structure...you're just paying for a service that you value."
• Amy [44:45]: "My money, my choice."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for individuals considering the integration of a financial advisor into their financial independence journey, providing personal insights and challenging prevailing stigmas within the FIRE community.

Transcript

[Mindy Jensen]

Hello.

[Amy]

Hello. Hello.

[Mindy Jensen]

My dear listeners, as you may or may not know, my husband Carl and I have a new series on YouTube on the BiggerPockets Money channel called Life After Fire. And as a very special bonus, we are going to be airing episodes here on the podcast on Wednesdays. Today we're talking with my friend Amy about the taboo topic of hiring a financial advisor to help her with her finances and why she chose to go this route. We'll also talk about her fire life as a single woman and how she reached financial independence in the first place. Hi there. I'm Mindy Jensen, and there's no Carl Jensen Today. This is the Life After Fire show, and we call it that because we're talking about and talking to people who are living their best life after reaching financial independence. Amy, thank you so much for joining me today.

[Amy]

Thank you for having me.

[Mindy Jensen]

Let's first chat about how you reached financial independence.

[Amy]

Sure. So back in 2015, I found Pete's blog, Mr. Money Mustache. I don't remember exactly how I got there, but I have a hunch it was probably through Get Rich Slowly. Because Get Rich slowly and J.D. roth were the very first finance blog I ever started reading. And I'd been checking in on him for years and sometimes I think he would talk about Pete or he would link to Pete. And so eventually I ended up on Pete's site and I read that, that very pivotal article, the shockingly simple math behind early retirement, the one that explains, okay, if you can save 25 times your expenses, then guess what, you can retire. And I remember just being like, kind of skeptical but very, very intrigued by this. And like, wow, this is really interesting. Okay, so I had a full time work from home job at the time, which meant like, yes, I was spending some of that time, like browsing blogs and reading the Internet and not like being 100%. And I made my way down the list of every single post that had ever been made on Pete's blog. And you know, especially in those early days, it was all about like, face punches and like, very like, you should not be spending money on these things. And it was an interesting sort of space to mentally marinate in. At the time, I was married to my, my now late husband Phil. And I would bring these topics up at dinner or whatever. I'd be like, I've been reading this blog and like, this guy's talking about retiring really, really young. And, and what do you think about this? And at first, Phil was pretty dismissive about it. He was like, no, that's not possible. No way. And then I started talking about it more. I got him to look at that article. We started kind of getting excited, doing the math, until we were like, hey, we could. We could do this. Like, we could make this happen. So that was kind of the beginning that. That was in 2015, the sort of reading and getting on the wagon. And 2016 was when we, like, truly. Truly kicked it off. We liked that symmetry of, like, okay, January 1st. We're. We're. This is what we're doing. We set a timeline. At that time, we were expecting that it would actually take us about eight years to reach our goals. In the end, it took us significantly less than that. So that was. That's kind of the origin story of how financial independence came into my life.

[Mindy Jensen]

So what kind of changes did you make to your spending and your financial life in general once you discovered this? Once you convinced Phil to join you, did you make any kind of changes to your spending or your savings?

[Amy]

Yeah, we made a lot of changes. So we were actually doing a really good job. I thought of saving before this. Like, we were maxing out our 401ks and our IRAs. We were saving on top of that. And because all of those kind of ducks were in a row, we were like, well, we can spend the rest of this money that we. We had very good salaries. We were like, we could spend this. Like, we don't have to feel bad about, you know, traveling a lot, about dining out at our favorite places, about, you know, we were also in the process of totally gutting and renovating our home. So we were like, okay, we can, like, choose nicer finishes or whatever, not nothing plated in gold. But we weren't. We were not holding ourselves to, like, the bare minimum where we weren't trying to source things from the Habitat Restore or from Craigslist. We were like, let' buy it at Lowe's. Let's go to Lowe's eight times a day during those construction weekends. So we. We were coming into this from a pretty good spot, and then latching on to this financial independence dream just made us really kick it into high gear. That's when we did scale all those sorts of extras back. We stopped going out to eat. We stopped traveling for the most part, except for, like, very minimalist road trips. We did start sourcing things from Craigslist. And. And the restore.

[Unknown]

We.

[Amy]

We just kind of pulled back on all the extras. I stopped buying books as, like, a super lifelong reader and. And writer. I was always buying books. And in the end, I Actually wasn't keeping all that many of them. I have an aversion to clutter. I was constantly like weeding through my collection. But what that meant was like every time the library said, oh, we're having a book sale, come donate your books, I would be dropping off grocery bags that I had bought most of those books, like off of Amazon at, you know, whatever Amazon prices were at the time, probably 20 or 30% off. So it was not very efficient. So I switched to using the library. So there were all these ways that we cut things back for sure. We were definitely. That first year was one of, I would say, a sort of experimental deprivation. We were not freely spending in any category. It was all like, do we really need that? Even if it was like a 99 cent chapstick at the checkout at Target.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, so you said experimental deprivation. I love that phrase. Did you? And you said it was that first year. Did that change after a year?

[Amy]

It did change. And I'm so glad in retrospect, it changed for many, many reasons, but it changed because it was not very fun. And it turns out mentally it's kind of hard to like see your balances go up and up and up and up and still be telling yourself no all the time. Like, you're not experiencing any of those rewards. You're watching the numbers tick up, but you're just like, nope, can't. Can't do anything fun. We're not, you know, going on vacation, we're not going out to a nice restaurant with our friends. So it was kind of too much. So after that first year, you know, we did accounting together regularly, a minimum of once a month. And then in December, it was sort of like a larger review of how the year had gone. And we were like, how did this go for you? How did this go for you? Oh, yeah. And we found out we were on the same page about how it wasn't super fun and we wanted to loosen the purse strings a little bit. And so that's what we did. And the following years after that, I would say kind of progressively more. So we just, we just experience more freedom in spending and it enhanced our life in, in many ways.

[Mindy Jensen]

I think it's funny that you were able to go and I think it's great, not funny, great that you were able to go an entire year with this experimental deprivation, my new favorite phrase, and then make the change. Did you have any sort of check in meetings during that first year or did you just like plow ahead and then get to the year and Say, this isn't working.

[Amy]

Yeah, we had check in meetings every month, but also probably more so we had sort of more formal ones every month. When we would update our spreadsheets, we would pull all of our balances across. Like, oh, okay, you've got that 401k over here. I've got this one over here. What's this account doing? What's this account doing? And the market was also doing pretty well. So that was really boosting us. And it was fun. Those meetings were super fun because it was like, look at the progress we made. Look how much money we saved this month. This is so great. Oh, my gosh. And it was, it was very gamified. It was like, oh, we can look at our data and see that last year at this time we were spending $400 a month on dining out. But this year we spent like $13 on dining out. Because twice we ate at the Costco food court. You know, like crazy things inside of a month. Crazy changes. That did make it fun because the numbers really did stack up. But we were, I'd say, like there was some fatigue as the year went on. Okay, we're getting past the first, the first few super exciting months and maybe we're in July or August and we're like, okay, wow, we haven't been out to dinner in seven months. This is sort of sad, but okay, let's go to the Costco food court or whatever. So there were regular check ins for sure.

[Mindy Jensen]

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[Unknown]

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Back to the show. I love that you had these monthly check ins. I love that you said that they were fun. That makes my heart sing because I know a lot of people who don't currently have monthly check ins are like, ooh, I don't want to have a monthly check in because then I have to see all the things I did wrong. Well, you could also see the things that you did right and sometimes things just go wrong in a whole month. I publicly tracked my spending, tracked hour spending in 2022, the first six months of 2022 and month one. I went way over on almost every category because I had like a big car bill that I wasn't anticipating because I wasn't anticipating sliding into a snowbank and breaking the ball joint on the car. But so that was way over. And you know, I didn't know how much I was spending on groceries so I guessed really low. And like all of these other things it's, it can be really difficult to get to the end of the month and be like, wow, nothing went right this month and there's always something that's going to go right. It's not like you're always going to be wrong, but you focusing on the positive is really important and it can help you continue on the path. And just even both of you being on the same page, that feeling of.

[Amy]

Being on the same team definitely strengthened us in our financial independence journey so much, because those meetings were not about, like, oh, I bought a new sweater this month. I'm kind of going to be in trouble when we have this meeting. It wasn't like that at all. It was like, let's see how awesome we did this month. And that just sort of changed the whole tenor.

[Mindy Jensen]

Oh, that's. That's a really great way to reframe it, Amy. You're so positive. I love it. I once heard somebody say, it's not me against you, it's us against the world. And I love that phrase so much, I'm just going to keep saying it. So, Amy, did Ramit's philosophy of live your rich life influence you, or did you kind of come to this, incorporate the things you like by yourself?

[Amy]

I think it was. It was more organic. It was just kind of something we came to in looking and evaluating our quality of life. I was familiar with Ramit back then, but not. Not the rich life stuff. I don't remember when exactly that came about for him, but my early memories of Ramit actually came from also reading Get Rich Slowly because JD Roth would link to Ramit. And I remember Ramit's anecdote about how when he was, like, in his 20s and going out to. To party in bars, but he didn't want to pay for drinks, he would bring a flask of, like, rum, and he would order a Coke or a Diet Coke and he would put his own liquor in it. So at the time, that was my primary association with Ramit's philosophy. It was not what it is today. I don't know exactly when he made that evolution, but if you had asked me back then, like, oh, would you say that what you and Phil are doing is. Is something that could be called living your rich life? I might have said yes to that question because that is how it felt. We were. We were very specifically kind of curating the choices we wanted to make. Where was it worth it to us to spend, and where was it really easy to not spend? And that was, you know, an ongoing conversation, but one that we were pretty much always on the same page about.

[Mindy Jensen]

I love that you were on the same page. I did not read Ramit's book, I will Teach you to be Rich until, I think, the first time I interviewed him on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. And the reason I didn't read it is because it's called I will teach you to be rich. And I'm like, well, I already know how to get rich. You just save, save, save. I didn't realize that what it meant was I will teach you how to live a rich life. So I thought it was going to be like, invest in your 401k and invest in your Roth IRA. And I'm like, well, I already know how to do that, so I'm not even going to bother reading this book. It was definitely different than what I expected it to be and I, I think that I did myself a disservice by not reading it much closer to the beginning of my journey. But you know, we all have our shoulda. What a couldas.

[Amy]

Yeah, hindsight 2020 as they say.

[Mindy Jensen]

So I love that your story was woman led. In most, most couples in this space, the man is trying to convince her to do this financial independence thing, this weird thing. Given that you were the driving force behind this in the beginning, why did you decide to hire a financial advisor?

[Amy]

This is going to lead us down like into a big, a sadder story, to be frank. So that beginning of that financial independence journey, as I mentioned, was back in 2015, 2016. A lot of things changed in Phil's. In my life over the years, as it does for everyone. We had been living in a very low cost of living place at the time that we started this journey. And we at a certain point made the decision to move out to San Francisco for various career related reasons. And so we did that and there's kind of a lot in the mix. And then the pandemic came and that is when we decided to get out of San Francisco where we literally. There was one time when we didn't leave our apartment for 14 days. It was like very early days, before vaccines, before testing was even readily available. And it was scary to literally be out on the street. Like you were keeping this like six foot wide berth around you. You didn't know a lot of things that we now know about that disease. So anyway, we wanted to leave and we, we moved out to Colorado at that time. And that was in May of 2020. About five years ago, in June of 2020, very shortly after we moved here, we met our financial independence goal. We hit our fine number and we're like, oh my gosh, okay, here we are like after all this time and there's like this worldwide pandemic going on and nobody's leaving their houses. It was a very weird time to meet this number, but we were happy about it. Of Course. And that, of course, also led to a discussion like, okay, what now? What are we going to do now? So Phil decided that he wanted to keep working because he was super happy with where he was. He had sort of finally found the kind of dream setup at work that he had been looking for. And it was just something that he wasn't ready to give up quite yet. So I fully supported that. It was like, okay, great, you want to do the one more year syndrome? Like, that's totally fine, whatever you want. Because there was so little social life at that time made sense. It's like, okay, well, if you did retire now, like, you'd be stuck in your house just like you are now. So, like, it made sense. I decided to go back to school, which was something I had been toying with for a while. And I did. I enrolled and I started, you know, going full time to the local community college. So that was in June of 2020. And then in September of 2020, Phil was still working, I was still in school. We had bought a house here in Colorado, and he had gone out for a bike ride. No, I'm sorry, not a ride. He was away on a bike camping trip in the mountains for one night with a friend, and there was an accident on his way home and he died. So this is obviously a part of the story that's not going to apply to most people. Right? This, this was a shocking, completely out of left field, tragic circumstance that enveloped my entire life. Not just my financial life, but it absolutely did include my financial life. So that kind of threw everything into a turmoil. And within that turmoil, I knew very quickly that I was going to need help managing the money aspects, because those are things that Phil had done. Yes, I had brought us to financial independence. I was the driver of that whole, you know, shebang. But he was the one. He had the. The software brain, the math brain. He was, like, doing the trades and figuring out our, our account balancing and what are we in stocks and what are we in bonds and what's our risk tolerance. And like, he did all the mathy stuff, which was not my forte. Like, absolutely. It was not. Let alone in the wake of this horrible tragedy, when I could not, like, remember to lock my door or run the dishwasher. I was in no position to be like, well, let's dive in and let me learn all this stuff so that I can manage my financial future. That just was not going to happen at that time. So I started trying to figure out, okay, how am I going to do this? And I Got connected with somebody at Charles Schwab, which was where we did the bulk of our banking. There was a representative at sort of my local branch who reached out and was basically just like, hey, you know, I know you guys are new to the area, whatever, but I'm introducing myself, and if you need anything, let me know. And I wrote that person back, and I was like, yes, I need help. Can we talk? And I went and met with him, and he was super great and supportive. And he explained that Schwab often referred people to their. Their customers, their clients. They referred them out to financial advisement firms or wealth management firms. You know, there's different terms. So he kind of was like, okay, this is a path we can go down. Is that something you want to try? And I was like, yes, please. So that was the beginning of how that, that got started.

[Mindy Jensen]

And do you have a traditional financial advisor who takes assets under management or do you have more of a. A fee only financial advisor or an advice only financial advisor that you're using?

[Amy]

This is very controversial, right? Like in the fi space.

[Mindy Jensen]

It sure is.

[Amy]

We know that financial advisors at all are kind of controversial. If you have one, it's often kind of frowned upon. It's that, like, face punchy, like, no, no, no. This isn't how smart people do money. If you do it, you're an idiot. There's kind of that vibe around advisement at all. So I just want to acknowledge that. And then you take that even a step further if you're going to have one, it's like, okay, well, if you have to use the fee only ones for, for God's sakes, like, don't, don't even consider these asset under management ones. They're just totally ripping you off. There's nothing they could possibly do that could help you, you know, to that extent. And you're just so, so dumb if you even consider it. So that's kind of. That's the water we're swimming in, right? Would you agree with that?

[Mindy Jensen]

I would absolutely agree that that is the water that we're swimming in. Another great phrase, Amy. The queen of phrases.

[Amy]

Today's my phrase day, Friday phrase day. Anyway, so to actually answer your question, the advisor that I use is an assets under management advisement firm.

[Mindy Jensen]

And are you happy with the service that you're getting from them and the cost that it is to you?

[Amy]

I am super happy with the service that I'm getting from them, and there's a few reasons for that. So obviously my situation is somewhat unique in that I kind of had to do this all at once during a crisis time. So the fact that I could sort of be linked with a professional outfit who does this all the time, who spends, you know, all of their time. The people who I work with, like, they got their degrees in this, this is what they do full time, round the clock, yada yada. That made me feel very, very safe. It made me feel like my money was safe. It made me feel like, okay, despite the fact that my life has just exploded around me, there is a way that I can still be taken care of. I can still be financially independent, I will still be okay. I can get through this financial aspect, the rest of it, you know, tbd, but at least my money will be all right. That was super valuable. I know that that's not the case for everyone, but I would also argue that there are lots of ways that relationships end. Usually it's not in death. Most of them end in divorce or in breakups. The ones that end in those ways, I think a lot of these issues are still at play. There's usually somebody who is responsible for the nitty gritty money stuff and another person who maybe had no idea what was going on, who maybe had some idea what was going on, but is maybe not super equipped to handle it on their own. So for those folks, I would just say that a financial advisor can be a godsend. I know they have been for me and there's been many aspects of life that they have helped me with beyond just the money stuff. So, like, yes, they managed my money. They also did like this super comprehensive audit of all of my insurances. They were like, okay, look, you have these assets, you need to have an appropriate level of insurance so that if, you know, somebody slips and falls on your sidewalk or whatever, you have some coverage for that. So that was an umbrella policy. So, okay, how much do I need that policy for? La la la. Let's do that. What's the, the appropriate level of auto insurance and home insurance? I should have. How about health insurance? So that was a big aspect. They were also super helpful with estate planning. That was kind of included in their services. So because my husband had died and we had sort of been caught kind of red handed with not having any end of life plans in place, I knew for myself that I did not ever want that to happen to my next of kin. So I was like, okay. It was a priority that I had from the very beginning. So they helped me set up a trust. I worked with an attorney of theirs. I now have like all these ducks in a row that were not in a row before or not even close to a row. They were like, you know, in an S shape, all over a pond. There have been many additional ways that working with an advisor has enhanced and improved my life beyond just the money part. But with, but specifically regarding the money part, I would say that they allow me to sleep at night. I'm not worried that I'm going to make a wrong move. We talk about everything, every financial goal, everything about earning income or spending money. I have somebody to talk to about that. My spouse is gone. Right. Money is an intimate subject that we generally don't go around talking about this stuff out in the world. Right. It's kind of like taboo. You know, people have all different levels of comfort around it. But because I am now a single person, a single woman, I have this professional outfit who is, who is working with me to make sure that I'm successful in the financial long term. Like yes, I can put a price on that because there is a specific price, you know, in my percentage that I'm paying them every year. But I also kind of want to say you can't put a price on that. It's very difficult to put a price on peace of mind.

[Mindy Jensen]

We have to take one final ad break. We'll be back with more after this.

[Unknown]

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[Mindy Jensen]

Thanks for sticking with us. I could not agree more, Amy. And you said a couple of things that really made me understand where you're coming from. So I want to. I want to stop right there and just let everybody know. Amy and I have known each other for five years. I would categorize that, Categorize us as very close friends. I understand all. I'm glossing over the story of how her husband passed because for this particular show, it's not that he passed is important, but all of the, you know, goings on with that is not necessarily so important. It was covered brilliantly by Brad from Choose fi on episode 476. And if you'd like to know a little bit more about, you know, Amy's financial journey after her husband passed away, Brad did a really, really great job with her story. But I want to get back, so I don't want people to think, you know, wow, Mindy, you totally just, like, jumped over the fact that her husband died.

[Amy]

If you knew the hours you and I have spent talking about the fact that my husband died and all the repercussions, like, people would understand. It's a lot of hours.

[Mindy Jensen]

I'm intimately familiar with that part of the story, but I don't, I also don't want people to be like, wow, she's so mean. So a couple of things that you said. You said, my financial advisor makes me feel safe. Where's the price tag on safety? And they allow me to sleep at night. Where's the price tag on sleep? Money is an intimate topic. Yeah, you could go and talk to a lot of people about this topic. We do have several friends come in common in the FI space, and we all talk about money. You could. You could ask these questions, but it's also like, you don't really want to just share your entire financial life with somebody necessarily as a, you know, whereas you could do this with the financial advisor. And I think I almost said, I think for your circumstance, it's okay. That is so snotty. So I'm not going to say that I'm going to leave it into the show, but I'm not going to say that I think that anybody who wants help managing their finances has a lot of options. You have the advice only financial planner who will look at what you're saying and just give you some advice. I think that might also be called the fee only financial advisor. You give them a specific dollar amount, they trade it for advice. There's the assets under management, kind of like the full service. Amy and I actually spoke at an event a couple of years ago called Camp Widow and we were talking about money and how to transition from he does it all to now I have to, to do it. And how do you, you know, kind of figure that out? And we were, we spoke with multiple widows over that weekend and it seems like about the two year mark after your partner passes is when the, the widow brain, the fog finally lifts and you can sort of start feeling like yourself again. And that's not true for everybody. But that seemed, Would you, would you characterize that as kind of like two years is kind of when you start to be able to function at the same capacity that you were while your partner was still alive?

[Amy]

I agree that two years is a very common milestone to be like, okay, I can be back in the world, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I have regained the capacity that I had before Phil died, because I haven't. And that feels very clear to me. And I don't know if I ever will. And I've read other widow accounts who have, have mentioned that as, as well. So I want to make that distinction. But I do think, yes, two years is a reasonable point at which many widows that I have known, and I have known a lot by this point sort of do come out of the mist and are ready to be maybe a little bit more proactive is how I would put it.

[Mindy Jensen]

So in two years, your bank is not going to wait, your investments are not going to wait, your bills are not going to wait for you to, to be able to function again at a higher level. I don't know how to say this without sounding terrible, but, but like you said, two years is about where it's at. But you had two years worth of. Sometimes I don't remember to lock the door. Sometimes I don't remember to turn on the dishwasher. Did I brush my teeth today? You know, when was the last time I took a shower? I'm, I'm pulling from my days of having an infant, which is in no way comparable except the, you know, the, the lack of sleep and the lack of being able to focus. So having somebody to help you through all of those times, I mean, anybody listening who is like, wow, Amy, you could have done that yourself. You know what, Amy? You could build a whole house by yourself. Why don't you? You could build a car from scratch. Why did you buy one that was already done? Like, there's, there's so many things that you could do for yourself that you don't do. Like, everybody listening? You could grow your own vegetables. Do you do that?

[Unknown]

No.

[Mindy Jensen]

You go to the grocery store and you buy them ready grown. There's lots of things that you could do. You hire people because they're either better than you at it or you don't want to do it. And I think that financial advising is just exactly the same thing. You hire somebody because they're either better at it or you don't want to do it.

[Amy]

I agree. And I think that brings up a sort of similar but related point around how if we think about the sort of template that we all became aware of, of the, like, the retired person, the five person, you know, what, what is the archetype here? If you think of, like, oh, what's the, like, typical person in the phi space? I think that answer has changed over time. But if you go back to, like, when I first got into reading the phi stuff, it was pretty clear and pretty narrow. It was a man, he was in software. He DIY'd tons of stuff, his house, his car, very into stoicism, an atheist. Like, does this sound about right? And I'm not trying to pick on Pete or Carl or any of the other people who, like, have given us so much wonderful content. But I want to say that those, those terms for some of us, not everyone, but for some of us, including me, they do not fit. That is not a box I am ever going to fit into. My husband was very much of that ilk. I respect it, I understand it, but I do not function in that way. So, like, I want to give an example about this. Like I said, I was in school before, and I have been chipping away at this degree that I'm working on, and right now I'm enrolled in the last class that's required. I left it to the very last minute because I didn't want to take a science class with a lab, but I had to take a science class with a lab. So I had to choose which one it was going to be. And in sort of like a sentimental nod to Phil, even though he has now been gone for more than three years, I decided to take physics because Phil loved physics. And I'm like, you know, there are limited ways that I can connect with him in the present day, and maybe this is one. I'm going to take a physics class. I'm going to see what the fuss is about. What did he love about all this? So right now I'm at the slightly more than halfway point of the semester, and this class is killing me. This class is so hard. I have not, like, I have an A student, but in this class right now, the last time I checked, I had an 89.94%, which to me, to some people, that's like, oh, that's so great. To me, that's my other classes, my English, my communications classes. I'm at like 98 or higher. I have always been historically this one, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't think I can hold an A till the end of the semester. Every assignment, every lecture, every lab, I dread it. I procrastinate about it. I put it off. Because this is not how my brain works. This is how Phil's brain worked. And I respect that, and I loved that about him, but it is not how my brain works. And the finances are not that different. That was. That was really good for his brain. His emotional intelligence was a fraction of what mine is. So, like, there were. There were like, push, pull things. And that's fine. Like, I loved him. I chose him. Like, I can say these things. It's totally fine. But within the Phi space, I think we have these defaults of what's allowed and what's not. And using an advisor at an assets under management firm is a thing that is verboten. It is not allowed. People will laugh you off of a forum or whatever about that, but I have no qualms about it. It enhances my life. It is my version of a rich life to not have to worry about money. I have outsourced that worry and that, that planning and that care to people who are so much better at it than I am, and therefore I can sleep at night. And I think more people should feel that this option is open to them.

[Mindy Jensen]

I absolutely agree. If you don't want to or you feel like you could hire somebody who knows more than you, then do it. And if somebody tells you, oh, you shouldn't, just say thank you. I will live my life the way that I want to.

[Amy]

There is a difference, like you mentioned, between an assets under management fee structure. Versus a fee only financial advisor. And so part of my thinking, and I was thinking about this, just going into this conversation knowing that we'd be talking about this, I thought, okay, why didn't I pursue a fee only? Or even if I couldn't do it then, I'm in a much better mental place now. Why don't I do that now? Why don't I make the switch? I would save a lot of money. Money. It's true, I would. But the reasons I came up with are because when you do that, that person that you're paying the fee to, they're looking at your stuff, your numbers for what, an hour or two, maybe an hour before they have the meeting with you and then maybe the hour during the meeting and then that's kind of it. They're not invested in your journey, you know, metaphorically speaking. Whereas in my position, the kind of advisor I have, I can and have emailed him at any time, at any hour. Hey, I'm thinking about maybe finishing my basement. This is kind of what I think that budget would look like. What do you think this does to my long term plan? And then he'll write back and he'll have charts and he'll have very specific answers and he'll say whether he thinks I should do it or not. He doesn't tell me I can't. He'll just say, this is my professional advice, essentially. Or if I have tax questions. We have this massive tax planning meeting every year that's like, okay, we're gonna try to make your income fit into these brackets because of the ACA that you're on. So this is how we're gonna do that. Did you make any money this year? Okay, we're gonna put this into the Roth, like la la la. There are many aspects of my financial life that he and his firm are helping me manage that are not included in what a fee only advisor does. So I just want to delineate that, that relationship. That is the main difference in my mind between those two are that sort of like one off support and advice and that ongoing thing where, you know, you can reach out anytime, any day of the year and get fast answers.

[Mindy Jensen]

And it sounds like you have found a really great advisor. And I want to encourage anybody who is considering hiring an advisor to interview them, talk to them and see what kind of services they provide, what kind of things you're getting. You have somebody who is fitting all of your needs. If you, my listeners, connect with an advisor and you're like, wow, he really didn't do anything for me. Maybe an advisor isn't for you, or maybe that advisor isn't for you. If you want somebody to look over your numbers and just be like, yeah, you're doing great, or hey, don't forget about this tax advantage or, you know, this tax obligation that could come up if you do this. Then, you know, going to a place like hello Nectarine or the XY Planning Network and finding a fee only financial advisor could be what you're looking for. But if you need somebody who is more in depth, who is looking at your numbers frequently, who you can reach out to at any time, somebody like Amy's advisor might be a better fit for you. And it doesn't matter what Bob down the street says or Joe Blow online says. If you like this person, if you're comfortable, like, understand the fee structure. But if you're comfortable with the fee structure, then you're just paying for a service that you value. And anybody who tells you that you're wrong, they're wrong. Do you think that you will continue to use your financial advisor for the foreseeable future?

[Amy]

Good question. Definitely. Right now, I have zero plans to change. There are added benefits. So, like, given my life stage, I am a single woman. But that could change. One day I could meet someone, I could want to get married. If that happens, there will be many conversations that I will have with my advisor about, like, okay, what are we doing in the, in terms of prenuptial agreements? Or how do we need to structure my assets in such a way that they're, you know, safe no matter what happens in any future relationship or marriage? So that's just another thing that they're going to bring to the table that I will lean on them for if or when that time comes. I think it's possible. I don't know. Every time I think about like, you know, should I consider doing this myself? You know, I have all these friends who are just like, oh, index funds and set it and forget it. But I know from working with my advisor on the back end for these last few years, like, there's so much more to it. I do think, like, I know enough to be like, okay, yes, could I dump all of my money into an index fund if I had to? If my, you know, advisement firm went away and, and I didn't have that as an option anymore, I think I could do okay. But okay isn't really enough if I can go back to my physics class analogy. So, okay, right now I'm getting a B or A high B in that class when normally I'm an A student. Now a B in a physics class that I don't really need. And I'm never going to go into a STEM field. That's fine. There are no stakes with that. But if I was to get the equivalent of a B grade in managing my own investment, that would be pretty catastrophic. I would be missing out on a lot of money if I was only doing as well as a B. So I just. I really have no plans to change at this point. I'm not going to say never, but it is not in my immediate field of vision as, like, oh, I want to cut costs, and this is where I'm going to do it. Like, those costs are what allow the other costs to not bother me. So for now, I'm letting it ride and I'm perfectly happy to do it.

[Mindy Jensen]

Okay, well, I think that's great. I think that you have made a decision based on information and facts and not based on somebody else saying something that you should do or somebody saying something that you shouldn't do. And it works for you. You understand how much it's going to cost. That's it.

[Amy]

My money, my choice.

[Mindy Jensen]

Exactly. Your money, your choice. All right, Amy, I really appreciate your time today. This was. This was a great conversation. I think that this is going to help a lot of people who are either using a financial advisor and feeling guilty about it or wanting to use a financial advisor. Having seen all these comments, you should never use a financial advisor. And saying, oh, well, then I guess I shouldn't. But they're not really managing their money like it should be managed. So if you want to hire a financial advisor, hire a financial advisor. Amy says it's okay, and I do, too.

[Amy]

Amen.

[Mindy Jensen]

All right, Amy, again, thank you for your time today, and we'll talk to you soon.

[Amy]

Thank you so much. Talk soon.

[Mindy Jensen]

And if you like this video, please click thumbs up. And don't forget to subscribe to this channel for more inspiring fire videos just like Amy's. All right, that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, saying later days, sun rays.