← BiggerPockets Money Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Not everyone needs two million dollars to retire early and not everyone can live on thirty thousand dollars a year that's why the fire movement has evolved into multiple paths today we're exploring every type of fire from traditional to coast to lean to fat and helping you discover which one fits your personality your needs and your sanity hello hello hello and welcome to the bigger pockets money pod my name is mindy jensen and with me as always is my fired up co host scott trench thanks mindy great.
- [00:38]
B
To be here and as always and to blaze into new opportunities for financial independence we have put together a visual breakdown of all of the fire types that we're going to cover today so i'm going to share my screen and let's go ahead and jump right in.
- [00:52]
A
Okay scott how many types of fire are we going to be talking about.
- [00:56]
B
Today we're going to be talking about six there's no official beginning or end to the types of fire and a new acronym is invented by the hour in the fire community but we'll talk about the six most common of these types here today so do you want to kick things off mindy with the.
- [01:10]
A
First one yep up first we have traditional fire this is the kind of numbers that we originally started talking about in the fi community ten fifteen years ago one to two point five million dollars in net worth which implies a middle class lifestyle we are spending between forty and one hundred twenty thousand dollars a year in retirement the timeline for this is between seven and twenty years for somebody who's earning a good upper middle class income the biggest lever that you have to pull for your traditional fire journey is your savings rate we talked last week with mister money mustache about his shockingly simple math to early retirement and the savings rate the more you can save of your inc the faster you will get to traditional fire the pros of this are pretty easy you can get to a comfortable and traditional retirement in a fairly short amount of time it's it's you know seven to twenty years depending on how much you're making and it can be achieved with a typical career you don't have to be some super high earning wage earner in order for you to be able to attain this level of phi the cons are few the numbers can seem so large that it takes decades to get to where you need to go with the people that we have been talking to in the past here scott it takes about ten years i think seven is a very aggressive goal and implies a very high savings rate most people are in the ten twelve fifteen year range the numbers can seem a little small for a higher end lifestyle this is not for somebody who wants to be able to spend as much money as they possibly can in.
- [03:04]
B
Retirement yeah i think this is the bread and butter of what the folks in the fire community are generally looking for you're going to see the majority of people in this community looking for an outcome in this range one to two and a half million you're going to find a lot of commonalities among the people that are looking for this a prioritization of freedom over work a prioritization of efficient living these are not folks that are trying to live a luxurious lifestyle they're trying to live probably what most people would equate with a typical middle class lifestyle in this and there's a concept of enough the goal of having enough in life to enjoy their time their day to day doing simple reasonably priced activities is going to be a higher priority than a long and very successful career climbing the corporate ladder building a business or otherwise accumulating that next level of wealth and i think this is what the fire community is started at and will remain grounded in adjusting for inflation of course over the coming years and decades i think this will be the typical goal for many people and i would even go so far as to say i think this is taking the place of the old american dream for an increasingly large percentage of society and scott you just.
- [04:22]
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Called it the bread and butter let's call this bread and butterfly yeah okay what do we have next next up.
- [04:29]
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We have just the bread just the bread no no butter that component of fire so that one's probably barista fire lean fi but we have coastfi here coast fire is really just a milestone on the fire journey it's not this is not a state of financial independence what it is describing is a position where enough saved in your retirement accounts where if you take any reasonable approximation of historical average returns for typical investment portfolios and extrapolate them to the future your retirement wealth will be fully funded so for example if someone who is twenty five is hoping to at sixty five in forty years have two point five million dollars in inflation adjusted wealth so probably closer to seven or eight million at that point in time then if they have one hundred sixty seven thousand dollars their retirement accounts or in their portfolio that they do not plan to spend that number will likely again if we extrapolate historical returns compound and double every seven point two years and fully fund that level of wealth by that point so they don't have to save any more money for retirement for example if you're twenty five and have one hundred sixty seven thousand dollars saved if you're thirty five that number jumps to about three hundred twenty eight grand forty five six hundred and forty six and fifty five one point three million and if you've got that much accumulated you're done saving for retirement and that can be a very freeing feeling because a lot of people feel pressure to accumulate accumulate accumulate accumulate accumulate but if you can calculate that you're coast fire then you can ease off the gas you can take part time work you can explore things like barista fire or you can continue grinding it out to the other forms of fire but know that you are well ahead of the game and the pressure is off you're not behind by any sense in terms of the financial goals that most americans seek to achieve and this is a much more approachable timeline for many especially if you're younger i think that many people in the fire community will find that they're able to actually hit this goal in the three to five year time range between salary increases that seem to accompany the start of many fire journeys hardcore saving and then the investment approaches and the compounding of initial dollars i think that you'll find many people who are able to achieve this in three to five years of course it can take much long or even lifetimes for many people but inside the fire community you'll find a lot of people achieving it in a pretty short amount of time however if you're older you need way more in order to achieve closed fire because you have less time for that doubling and i think you got to be a little bit more conservative in the assumptions you have around growth rates because timing you know the returns in the next decade matter so greatly for you actually achieving this so you can compute this and see how long that will take you with the pioneers calculator which we talk about at length in episode six hundred and sixty four and actually bring them on to discuss in episode six hundred and sixty five here at the biggerpockets money podcast we are going to take a quick mini retirement from this conversation and then we'll be right back when i evaluate debt funds i look for things like first position loans personal guarantees deep experience by the fund operator low fund leverage fast liquidity and consistent returns these are some of the reasons why i'm excited to partner with pine financial group their fund six offers investors exposure to real estate credit largely for construction and rehab largely here in colorado with loans originated by an experienced originator with over one billion dollars in origination volume seventy five percent of their borrowers have been repeat customers over seventeen years they offer investors an eight percent preferred return paid monthly and a seventy thirty lp gp split of everything over ten percent paid annually the lockup period is nine months with liquidity available within ninety days after that nine month commitment the fund is open to accredited investors only the fund's minimum investment is typically one hundred thousand dollars but pine financial is able to reduce that minimum for some investors and have agreed to do so for biggerpockets money listeners to a minimum of twenty five thousand dollars full disclosure i am personally invested in this fund through my self directed ira and of course pine financial is sponsoring this message and our podcast if you'd like to invest or check out their prospectus go to biggerpocketsmoney dot com pine today that's biggerpocketsmoney dot com pine please note that returns are not guaranteed and may vary based on fund performance this past fall my family took a trip to scottsdale arizona to escape the cold colorado winter we booked a space on airbnb and had the most incredible time seeing all the sights in nearby phoenix tasting all of the fantastic food and jumping into the hot tub every night but it got me thinking maybe someone else was looking to experience colorado in the winter while we were away and if we hosted our home on airbnb they could with airbnb's co host network it's easier than ever you can hire a top notch local co host to take care of your guests and they can help create your listing manage reservations message guests and more find a co host at airbnb dot com host finances can be messy and confusing and it's a lot of work for many of us just to get to the starting point in personal finance which is understanding what you've got and where your money's going that's why virginia my wife and i use monarch money as our personal financial command center for our bank accounts credit cards investment portfolio and as our budgeting and spending tracker monarch automates everything it's all linked and every transaction is automatically categorized into each category of spending in just a few minutes a month i have a complete picture of where every dollar is being spent and and i have a real time net worth statement i've recommended and personally used monarch money for years i am thrilled and proud to be sponsored by and partnered with monarch money here at bigger pockets money bigger pockets money listeners get fifty percent off their first year which is usually ninety nine bucks with the code pockets at monarchmoney dot com that's monarchmoney dot com with the code.
- [10:23]
A
Pockets let's jump back in the pros of this is that you know that you are set for traditional retirement and then you can kind of ease off the gas you don't have to have this frantic i have to save every dollar i can mentality so it does allow for a little bit more spending throughout your the rest of your life um the it relieves a lot of pressure because saving up one million dollars or two point five million dollars that's a big number but if you're twenty five and you have one hundred sixty seven thousand dollars you're like oh okay this is the math maths out if you're twenty four and you see that you have fifty thousand dollars you're like oh okay i need to you know save a little bit more it gives you a great place to just check in where you're at i love the coastify calculator from the pioneers it's so so much fun to play with and just throw in different scenarios and oh okay if i have this much money i'll i'll have that much at retirement and if i need this much i'll have to have this much by this date so you can really like play around and check it out there's like i said there's a lot less pressure in your later years because not so much pressure to just save save save all the time and you can you can pivot in your career without worrying about your retirement savings you can take that job that's a little more risk more reward or less stress if you're just kind of burnt out less stress less pay the cons are that it still requires working until traditional retirement age so it's not really the re part of fire it assumes consistent market returns for twenty thirty forty years and you know past performance is not indicative of future gains as they say in every single ad for any sort of investment property it could lead to lifestyle inflation once you have pulled the pulled your foot off the gas pedal with regards to saving and it doesn't provide the ultimate freedom to completely leave your job that other levels of fi does tell.
- [12:35]
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Us about that one of the next types of fire mindy so we ordered.
- [12:39]
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These in the amount of money you would have to save up so the next up is barista fire and this is when your traditional retirement is fully funded like in coastfi and and you can distribute income from your asset base to partially cover your expenses but you wouldn't have enough money saved to be able to live off of it fully so it's like five with a job but a job that is traditionally less stressful like a barista when they go into the coffee shop they are making coffee and then when it is done with the when they're done with their day they just walk away they're not worried about what's going on at work and if you've ever had a very stressful job that you break home either like to do work or to x actually just sitting on your shoulders worrying about it this can be a really desirable opportunity so your fine number in barista phi is between two hundred fifty and seven hundred fifty thousand dollars we're not even hitting the million dollar mark right now you have partial financial independence with fifteen to twenty times your annual expenses instead of the traditional twenty five your timeline can be three to seven years so it's a much shorter timeline and you typically reach this five to ten years sooner than traditional fire the pros are the flexibility and the lower savings amounts that are required for it the cons are that many people in the middle or upper middle class will have a difficult time stepping back from this you know more prestigious job and i say that in air quotes because i think that baristas are awesome they make me my fabulous coffee drinks all the time having a less stressful job is a really great trade off let me tell you as somebody who had a stressful job and now no longer has a stressful job it's it's a great trade off but you do really need to have part time work for a considerable portion of the year and part time work might be harder to.
- [14:42]
B
Find this really i think takes a different kind of mindset than one that i'm frankly wired with where you're comfortable with living at a very low cost actually beginning to distribute partially from a portfolio imagine we talk about the four percent rule so if you have a million bucks that allow you to distribute about forty thousand dollars a year a five hundred thousand dollars portfolio would then allow you to distribute twenty thousand dollars a year and if you needed forty thousand dollars a year to live generating twenty thousand dollars in income part time is not something that many people find to be too challenging especially if they're willing to be reasonably flexible with those hours like for example tending bar at the busy time during the weekend and having off much of the rest of the week so this is a very this is this is a kind of niche or niche depending on where you're from approach to living again that i think few in our community are truly pursuing or in the bigger pockets money community more precisely are purs but i think these folks may actually get the maximum amount of life force out of their time on this planet by approaching something like this it just takes a little bit of a different brain wiring to really wrap your head around this and go and live out your life as a barista fire yep and honestly.
- [15:59]
A
Those cons really aren't that bad i think that part time work would be fairly easy to find especially if you're just needing to cover your expenses you're not needing to cover your expenses plus save for retirement all right scott what's.
- [16:11]
B
Next next up we got lean fi so i'm going to call this in that you know six hundred to one million maybe maybe even there's there's no hard lines here so you could even go up to like one point two five potentially in some places and call this area one point five and call that lean phi if you're on like the west coast for for example but this is going to be that lower end of phi this is where you're living a a a lower middle class is how i'll describe it type of lifestyle off of one's portfolio and the advantage here of course is that it's an even more achievable target than traditional fire can be achieved faster or on a lower income level and it can be done with basically no deviation whatsoever from the traditional fire formula you don't have to earn a high a super high income you don't have to do real estate if you don't want to you don't have to do have a business or side hustles or alternative investments you can just take a normal job even like a government type job or something that is relatively attainable from a career perspective grind it out for maybe ten or so years and likely be at or close to this objective if you keep your expenses low and embrace the frugality component of the fire journey and so i think that's the key advantage i think the disadvantage is that a very large portion of the fire community seems not to be content with the relative frugality required to live this lifestyle for the duration of one's life and it's not really a desirable lifestyle in particular i think in the higher cost of living areas which is i think a growing part of the growing portion of the united states and then you really have very little room for emergencies lifestyle inflation giving or maybe being more of a leader in your social circle or your family setting with this level of wealth although it's still still substantial but i think those are the the pros and cons of this and again i would say you know about about a fifteen percent or so of the bigger pockets money community is looking for this outcome as a stated goal.
- [18:18]
A
Yeah you said something scott i thought it was very very perfect for this you have to embrace the frugal lifestyle if frugality is not your natural setting lean fi might be more difficult for you but but i think that you can always combine these with you know barista phi and get a job for a few years or get a less stressed job for a few months out of the year you said you don't have to do real estate if you don't want to you never have to do real estate if you don't want to but renting out a room while you're traveling or you know otherwise covering some expenses so that you can have a more robust yet still lean fi lifestyle i think it comes down to creativity but yeah this is the frugal.
- [19:05]
B
Fi yeah and i also think that you know there's there's a little bit of a timeline or sliding scale here and i think many whose goal starts out as lean fi like for example myself maybe mindy you're in this camp as well i don't know but you know you start out with this goal and this this is the goal and you achieve it and it is freeing you now really do have all these options in life and you can live this lifestyle and and you can choose to work on one of the larger fire numbers in a much under much more agreeable circumstances either with a job with much more pay or something with much more flexibility or you can begin a business this is when you really get to have that control over your life if you're able to keep your expenses low enough during the journey to fire where you can live in item it's fine to get here declare and have that freedom and then continue building on top of that to layer in the lifestyle that you really want which may be at the upper ends there so i wonder if that's where some of the folks who say i want lean fire maybe what they mean is i want that freedom and that's my goal but i am also going to continue to upon myself after that because that's not really the total end destination it's just the beginning of the end where i will begin to exert my freedom and say no to work that i don't like and yes to the things that i do like even if that comes at the expense of base.
- [20:24]
A
Salary for example yeah i think lean fi can open up the doors to sabbaticals and new work opportunities that are potentially high risk high reward with like a startup or even just leaving that job that you hate that got you typing onto google anyway how do i quit my job early so leanfi gives you it opens up a lot of options okay this will be our final ad break and we'll be right back.
- [20:52]
B
After this when i evaluate debt funds i look for things like first position loans personal guarantees deep experience by the fund operator low fund leverage fast liquidity and consistent returns these are some of the reasons why i'm excited to partner with pine financial group their fund six offers investors exposure to real estate credit largely for construction and rehab largely here in colorado with loans originated by an experienced originator with over one billion dollars in origination volume seventy five percent of their borrowers have been repeat customers over seventeen years they offer investors an eight percent preferred return paid monthly and a seven thousand thirty lp gp split of everything over ten percent paid annually the lockup period is nine months with liquidity available within ninety days after that nine month commitment the fund is open to accredited investors only the fund's minimum investment is typically one hundred thousand dollars but pyne financial is able to reduce that minimum for some investors and have agreed to do so for biggerpockets money listeners to a minimum of twenty five thousand dollars full disclosure i am personally invested in this fund through my self directed ira and of course pine financial is sponsoring this message and our podcast if you'd like to invest or check out their prospectus go to biggerpocketsmoney dot com pine today that's biggerpocketsmoney dot com pi please note that returns are not guaranteed and may vary based on fund performance finances can be messy and confusing and it's a lot of work for many of us just to get to the starting point in personal finance which is understanding what you've got and where your money's going that's why virginia my wife and i use monarch money as our personal financial command center for our bank accounts credit cards investment portfolio and as our budgeting and spending tracker monarch automates everything it's all linked and every transaction is automatically categorized into each category of spending in just a few minutes a month i have a complete picture of where every dollar is being spent and i have a real time net worth statement i've recommended and personally used monarch money for years i am thrilled and proud to be sponsored by and partnered with monarch money here at biggerpockets money biggerpockets money listeners get fifty percent off their first year which is usually dollar ninety nine with the code pockets at monarchmoney dot that's monarchmoney dot com with the code pockets you just realized your.
- [23:15]
A
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- [24:15]
C
The new york area we wanted to visit a destination that was warm and we chose to stay at an airbnb in florida while we were there we went to the beach played putt putt and ate tons of crab at local restaurants all within walking distance we really had the best time and we really loved having our own private space this trip got me wondering about hosting our own home with airbnb the next time we're away maybe guests can enjoy our home while we're gone hosting may seem a little overwhelming but it's really easier than ever a co host can do the hosting for you with the co host network you can hire a local co host to take care of your guests while you're away they can help create your listing manage reservations message guests and they can even provide on site support find a co host at airbnb.
- [25:02]
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Dot com host i'm christian mccaffrey pro.
- [25:05]
D
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- [25:33]
A
Up next scott because we're doing this in order of like how much money you need we've got traditional fire in the order but we've already discussed that because i think it's great to i thought it was great to to give a baseline for where we were starting so again this is a one to two million dollars net worth spending between forty and one hundred twenty thousand dollars so let's move on to the next one chubby fire i don't know why this makes me laugh so much but it does the portfolio that you have is two and a half to six million i think six million might be squeaking into fat fi territory yeah i had a really hard.
- [26:13]
B
Time picking that number right these are not like like there's no like oh there's a clear cutoff here it's just that some people say that fat fire begins at seven and a half million and some people say it begins at five so i called it six to be in the middle there so if you have a problem with that you can email mindy has the email address actually it's called i don't careoboather somebody else dot com and you can quibble with the exact cutoff for chubby and fat fire the answer is chubby fire generates an upper middle class lifestyle this is somebody who can live in a nice home in a nice part of town that has really good schools maybe even send a kid to private school this is somebody who can afford to take pretty reasonable upscale vacations maybe even travel the occasional trip first class and has no trouble funding kids college accounts those types of things but this is not somebody who is driving one hundred thousand dollars sports car or is comfortable driving driving one hundred thousand dollars sports car this is not somebody who's flying private this is not somebody who is frequently traveling first class this is not somebody who's frequently eating out at michigan michelin star restaurants this is an upper middle class lifestyle and there's a good trappings that come with it but this is not an ultra lavish elite lifestyle that i think that the fat fire term better signifies yeah you're spending between.
- [27:38]
A
One hundred and two hundred forty thousand dollars a year so you're not saying no to a lot of stuff but you're not saying to everything yet so.
- [27:47]
B
A couple of distinctions here this is going to take most people at least ten to twenty years typically this is going to be this is going to be the folks who achieve this are going to have a very ultra high income especially towards the back part of the journey the end part of the journey here or they're going to be a business owner and selling or building a pretty pretty large business here this is these are folks that are probably going to be touching or grazing the top one percent in terms of income generation at least for portions of their career and this is going to take take a while even with that that level of diligence here i think that the pros are you can really live a good lifestyle here you can live a lifestyle of someone who's climbed the corporate ladder or is that you know is an executive or or expert in their field but it's also not so far out of reach that it's unattainable but for all but the truly elite you know superstars of the business and entertainment world for example the cons are this is this is really un for those without a super high income or those willing to basically dedicate the entirety of their adult lives to the accumulation of wealth and controlled spending it will still require folks in this category to be reasonably disciplined with their saving and to control their costs to some degree there is a budget that is going to be required for someone in this category to control their lifestyle expenses and i think that's pretty much the overview of chubby fire here i think this is increasingly there's a swelling trend in the biggerpockets money community to this level of wealth portfolio in this range in this probably two and a half to six million dollars range i would imagine that an increasing number of folks this will be the most popular range within the next two years i believe in.
- [29:39]
A
Our community yeah i think that's fair to to state followed very closely by traditional fire mindy what do we got.
- [29:47]
B
After chubby fire here we have fat.
- [29:50]
A
Fire this is not a state of bodi but a state of your bank account we are starting fatfi at about six million dollars in net worth this supports annual spending easily in the three hundred thousand plus range and you are upper middle class or even what's after middle class upper class upper class you're upper middle class or upper class you're.
- [30:19]
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You'Re part of the the absolute elite in america top one percent in terms of wealth almost certainly in your age bracket if you attain anything close to.
- [30:30]
A
Fat fire in your lifetime the timeline for this one can be quite a while depending on what sort of income you have and i do want to encour people who are like yeah i want six million dollars is that a realistic goal with your income if you have fat fire goals or if six million dollars is a fairly easily easily attainable goal then you are looking at an income of two to five hundred thousand dollars you are a business owner or a doctor or an attorney or somebody who's just making a lot of money and not spending all of it you are getting really great investment returns now i find myself in the fat fire category not because that was what my goal was but because carl and i saved and he retired and we i kept working and i continued to generate income to cover our expenses and more that we could put towards more retirement savings so we continued to save and invest even after we reached five and we did some some risky isn't the right word well it's kind of the right word some non traditional investments that really boosted our portfolio the pros of this is that you are really able to spend almost as much as you want you don't really have to look into your budget very much you just have to kind of keep an eye on the spending like oh it's june and we already spent two hundred thousand dollars i guess we only have a hundred thousand dollars for the last six months of or recognize yeah i'm spending a lot this year and next year maybe we'll just pull it back a little bit or keep spending because you've got so much money and it doesn't matter you can buy that second home that you don't necessarily have to rent out you can have that dream car that nineteen eighty seven toyota mr two that is your dream car or you know a nicer one you could drive a maybach what are some other nice ones scott i'm not really a.
- [32:36]
B
Car guy so i have my tesla model with it and i'm like this is the fanciest thing ever since i drove a corolla for ten years prior.
- [32:42]
A
To that it is a really fancy car you can you can travel almost whenever you want go wherever you want sit in the first class seats don't even bat an eye at buying business class seats on those the the longer flights stay in the nicer hotels no more motel six for you you can upgrade to the hampton or beyond you can you can really just live the life that you want almost with no regard to how much it costs the cons of course are you are acquiring millions of dollars before you retire and that requires a high income so if you don't have a high a super high income this is probably not going to be attainable unless you're going to continue to work past traditional phi number your chubby phi number honestly i don't think this is going to be attainable for much of the population simply because because spending is is preventing you your day to day spending prevents you from saving enough to achieve fat fire i.
- [33:46]
B
Think that's a really interesting point around your spending is going to make it hard to attain fat fire because what what i think i think there's like two types of fat fire that people don't really break apart in their minds when they think about this this this part of the community right one is this person who's living this very lavish lifestyle and spending three hundred thousand dollars per year twenty five thousand dollars a month really doing high end vacations driving fancy cars living fancy neighborhoods eating out a ton those kinds of things and then there's the person who has six to ten million dollars but only spends eighty to one hundred twenty thousand dollars a year spends like the other five categories and it's just that their portfolio ran away over the last ten years and your in that category mindy would.
- [34:34]
A
You would you agree i would absolutely.
- [34:36]
B
Agree yeah and i spend i'm also in this category but i spent i spend more than you but i don't spend like this like any within close to this level on an annualized basis you know i'm probably getting up there you know getting up there with the two kids in daycare at this point in my life but i'm not i'm not in this in this ballpark i think that those are the two distinctions to make right if you want to spend three hundred thousand dollars a year all the way through achievement and past fat fire you're probably going to be somebody who is absolutely elite in your field an athlete an entertainer a rock star an executive somebody in private equity or in wall street somebody who builds or joins a business early in the trajectory that just absolutely explodes but many people i think in the fire community will be in this category and it wasn't even their goal they just hey you know i fired with two and a half million made some part time income that covered my expenses and then last ten years been pretty good so now i got six million i think.
- [35:41]
A
That'S a good point scott i think people will find themselves sliding into chubby and fat fi even though that wasn't their goal simply because they are saving too much money they are you know one more year syndrome is a real thing and i had it my husband had it everybody has it being able to leave and still trusting the math is a superpower in the fi community so i think you're right i think a lot of people will see themselves sliding from lean to traditional from traditional to chubby and from chubby to fat just how the market shakes out so.
- [36:18]
B
You know we say this will be unattainable for all but a tiny fraction of the population early in life but i imagine that large percentage of the people who achieve fire will later in life potentially find themselves in the fat fire territory because what gets you to these other versions of fire frugality excellent income generation capability the ability to understand and manage investments a very long term outlook will likely by default in future decades continue to result in wealth snowballing and continuing to build and so i wonder if a lot of folks in the community will be in this category even if they never spend like they're.
- [36:58]
A
In the fat fire without building a house i would never spend in the fat fire territory all right scott i thought that was a very succinct wrap up of the different flavors of fi thank you for making that slide deck.
- [37:11]
B
I think it's awesome awesome yeah thank you and shout out to blake i just put some notes in a piece of word document and blake our producer put together this beautiful deck so thank you blake for all you do for.
- [37:22]
A
Biggerpockets money oh well yes let me rephrase thank you blake for making this beautiful this was a great slide deck yes and agreed thank you for everything you do scott and i just talk blake makes all the magic happen all right scott should we get out of here let's do it that wraps up this episode of the bigger pockets money podcast i am minnie jensen he is scott trench and behind the scenes is blake stell the best and we are saying until next time lime mike and.
- [37:48]
E
Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other when alyssa got a small water bottle mike showed up with a four liter jug when mike started gardening alyssa started beekeeping oh come on they called a truce for their holiday and used expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip once there mike still did more laps around the pool whatever you were made to outdo your holidays we were made to help organize the competition xp made to travel.
- [38:18]
B
Limu imu and doug here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with liberty mutual fascinating it's accompanied by his natural ally doug uh limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us cut the camera they see us only pay for what you need at libertymutual dot com liberty liberty liberty liberty savings ferry unwritten by liberty mutual insurance company and affiliates excludes massachusetts.