B (2:30)

Yeah, I agree. I think that the average American is so shockingly and appallingly underdeveloped in their financial literacy toolkit that they need these rules of thumb in financial planning. Like, oh, you're going to replace 80% of your income, your current income in retirement. That's how we're going to plan for your retirement number. It's crazy. It's a random number that has no meaning. Your retirement portfolio needs to cover your expenses. This is an obvious point that everyone should be able to grasp here. The challenge though is that what are those expenses going to be? What are they today, what are they going to be over the next few years and what are they going to be at retirement? And there's a lot of complexity that goes into that. And most withdrawal rules of thumb, like the 4% rule, assume a very constant inflation adjusted spending target because they have to. What else are they going to assume? They're going to map out your particular life's journey of expenses. No, only you can do that and you've got to figure that out. So the biggest mistake is if you go to some generic financial planner you might hear, or some financial planning resource, you might hear, oh, replace some percentage of your income or all of your income, obviously incorrect. Big mistake, Scott.

A (3:30)

Your income includes most likely the amount of money that you're putting away for retirement. Once you're retired, you're not putting any more money away. That's a huge chunk that you don't need to replace anymore. Your expenses around going to work go away. There's, there's lots of things. What I want our listeners to take away from the first mistake is to start tracking their expenses. Really, really track them granularly to see what money is actually going out and where it's going because they're going to change lot in retirement.

B (4:00)

What I do for this is every week I go through and I review every transaction. This is not a very cumbersome process, although it is cumbersome to set it up initially. Potentially depending on how many accounts you have and where you know where your spending comes from, whether it's from a bank account or various credit cards. But we use monarch, that's monarch.com use the code pockets for 50% off your first year. If you're a bigger pockets money listener, Monarch is a awesome tool for this. And I can go through all of my transactions on every credit card, see who has spent the money, what it was on and ask My wife in our weekly meeting about any transactions that I'm not sure about. So it's literally five to 10 minutes and it makes a huge difference. And then of course, I can get very detailed statements about spending in the past month, the past year by month, by week, any type of breakdown that I want. So that's the powerful tool and that drastically increases the odds of accurately forecasting expenses in any future period.

A (4:53)

Yep, absolutely, Scott. Carl and I use Monarch too and it is so easy to hop onto the site and just look at what's going on. The way that I have set up my dashboard and you can customize it however you want, but the way I've set mine up is that in the upper right is where my spending is so I can pop on and look there. Oh, you know what, it's halfway through the month that looks about normal or hey, it's a little bit off. Let me go, let me dive deeper into it. So when you're keeping track of it all the time, it becomes second nature to just pop on and look at it.

B (5:24)

Yeah. One more really good tool is to combine this with AI. Monarch has an embedded AI, but you can also just export all your transactions into a CSV and I've done this and all of your accounts, upload it into Claude or ChatGPT or whatever your favorite AI is and then ask it to analyze your spend, normalize any one timers and give you an idea of what your spend ought to be or how it compares to other people in your household category. So I've done this and spent hours of happy times going down that rabbit hole with the AI. So pretty big improvements. Are there any areas to make changes? Oh, your insurance. Let's talk about that. Here's what good looks like. It's pretty incredible how much a valuable data set like that, which you're building in Monarch or whatever, wherever you track your net wor is worth when you actually upload it to a smart AI.

A (6:09)

Wow, I have not gone that deep yet, Scott. I guess I'm going to have to catch up.

B (6:14)

Yeah, many happy hours like I mentioned. So Mindy, what is the second big mistake for early retirees in spending?

A (6:20)

Scott, I'm going to say treating the 4% rule like it's gospel, like it's written in stone. Instead of treating it like a rule of thumb. Everybody always leaves off the of thumb. The 4% rule is awesome. Way back in 1994, Bill Bengan was a financial planner and his clients kept asking him what is the safe withdrawal rate? So he did the math and he said 4%. Actually it was like 4.12 or something like that. And it's been downgraded to 4%. There are a lot of differing opinions. Because his research was based on a 30 year time horizon, people are saying, well, because I'm an early retiree, I need to withdraw less. I need to withdraw three to three and a half percent just to make sure I have enough for my longer horizon. That math makes sense, but you might not need to go that low. Bangin has since expanded his research and now it's closer to a 5% withdrawal rate as being safe. There's people in the space like Aubrey Williams, we've had him on our show, who suggests you set up drawdown guardrails. I love his idea of the guardrails. You don't change your spending even if you're portfolio goes up. You don't change your spending even if your portfolio goes down something like 40%. If you have a drop in your portfolio of 40%, he's suggesting that you don't change your spending. There's lots of different ways to do this research. There's lots of different rules of thumb that people are coming out there with. But just hearing, oh, 4% rule, I can withdraw 4% and stopping right there, I think is not doing yourself any favors.

B (7:59)

Yep. One of the big things with the 4% rule, beyond the endless quibbles that really smart people seem to have with the core premise, right, you know, there's Bill Bingen's research, there's Carsten Jeske who has arguably done even the most rigorous research in, you know, analyzing the 4% rule with, you know, valuation tilts and those kinds of things. There's work for Michael Kitces, there's work from Aubrey Williams, there's, there's so many people that are, that are talking about this. And there's a range that's developed right on the low end of the conservative range, you've got things as low as three to three and a quarter percent safe withdrawal rates for early retirees. And on the higher end of that range, you can start bumping against 5% safe withdrawal rates or 30 year retirements. And so it just depends on who you want to follow and what you want to believe there. I would argue that the best analyst or one of the best analysts in the space right now is Karsten Jeski for early retirees. And I think his work on safe withdrawal rates is something you should check out at early retirement. Now, if you're looking for the most rigorous defense of that in the context of the current environment with very high Shiller PE or very high stock market valuations, for example. So I think Carson's got a really great grip on the problem, although plenty of smart people would disagree with him and take issue with some of his findings there. The big problem with all of this research though, is that the 4% rule assumes that you're going to spend statically relative to inflation, right? If you're going to have a withdrawal 4% of a $2.5 million portfolio, it assumes that you're going to spend $100,000 per year adjusted for inflation forever. And that is not going to be your reality. It's not what we see in and that is where the 4% rule breaks down. And these guys who direct tremendous amounts of brainpower to analyzing safe withdrawal rates can't do anything other than assume static inflation adjusted spending. So that's the part that we should cover. Next. Here is what is your spending going to look like in retirement? And that changes how we think about the 4% rule your business identity is everything that makes your business legitimate and professional, from public records and compliance to your website, email and phone number. With Northwest Registered Agent, you don't just form a business, you start a complete foundation built for privacy, credibility and growth. When you form your business with Northwest, you get a complete business identity, not a stack of vendors to deal with. And that includes a registered agent service, a business address, operating agreement, domain, website, professional, email, phone number and Built in Privacy Northwest doesn't outsource or resell services. Everything is built and managed in house, which means fewer hands on your data and privacy by default for every customer. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent@northwestregisteredagent.com money free DIYing your financial strategy can actually become a liability. I recently sat down with David Jackson at Domain Money to pressure test my own plan. What I loved was the objectivity and how comprehensive it was. Domain is strictly flat fee. They don't sell products, so the advice is unbiase and personalized to your situation. They integrated everything from my cash flow to my real estate strategy into one clear, actionable roadmap. If you're ready to graduate from guessing to knowing, go to biggerpocketsmoney.com CFP book a free strategy session and see what a real pro like David can do for you this is a promotion for Domain Money, a registered investment Advisor with the SEC. BiggerPockets money may receive compensation if you choose to work with Domain Money as a client. I, Scott Trench, am a current client of Domain Money and receive non cash compensation related to this promotional activity. This is not personalized investment advice. For the full disclosures, visit biggerpocketsmoney.com CFP

A (11:36)

you just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored Jobs on indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results in the minute I've been talking to you. 23 people just got hired through Indeed Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com biggerpockets just go to indeed.com biggerpockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com biggerpockets terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Okay Scott, that brings us to the third mistake people make when they are calculating their fine number. What is one of the biggest expenses that's going to change?

B (12:45)

Scott healthcare. Yep, the 4% rule already accounts for inflation adjusted spending. It covers inflation, covers everything in the basket of goods and services that you're going to buy. But health care is is different than the rest of your spending because it rises separately from inflation. As a 35 year old if I get a health insurance policy quote right now, I'm going to get a much lower price for my family's health insurance than if I just change my age today to 60. That's not inflation. That's the law enabling insurance carriers to charge older people higher premiums for the same health insurance. Today, that is, I know that even before I factor in inflation in health care, I'm going to see my health insurance premiums rise. And I probably, if I'm smart, should also assume that I'm going to spend more and more out of pocket each year as I age. And that's, you know, age Is number one correlate to health care expenses. So you have to model this in for someone like me. It's like adding another $200,000 to $250,000 on top of my fire number to account for the structural rise in health care costs that I'm going to experience over the next couple years. If I want to spend $85,000 a year on everything but health care and my health insurance premiums are 15,000, then I need something more than 2.5 million to cover that rise in health care costs from 15 to literally 30, $35,000 by the time I hit age 64, 65. After 65, I go on Medicare and my health care costs drop. So it's just a bridge. It's not a permanent increase in spending, but it is a rise every year through to retirement, traditional retirement age. That's the biggest mistake people make with health care. And it's particularly killer to the lean fi crowd who may not be able to absorb the costs of those rising health insurance premiums the same way that somebody with a traditional or chubby fire number might.

A (14:32)

Scott Another thing that early retirees make a mistake on is assuming that the subsidies that they are taking now will continue in perpetuity. I think that that is a very dangerous thing to assume. We have been writing checks as a government for a long time and something has to change. Somebody's going to have to pay that back eventually. And I believe that the subsidies, they've already given them a cliff. I also believe that subsidies are going to, in the future have a net worth component. Oh, your net worth is X. Then you can't receive any subsidies, and that's going to affect a lot of the early retirees or subsidies could just go away completely. I don't think that's going to happen, but I think that that cliff could get sharper. I think that there's a lot of uncertainty around subsidies. So if you are planning on your retirement being subsidized by the government for the health care, you could be making a very big mistake.

B (15:31)

Yeah. The Affordable Care act subsidies are designed for households making some multiple of the federal poverty line. These are poverty line subsidies. And the American taxpayer may at some point decide that they're not willing to subsidize the early retirement of a millionaire for their health insurance. Now people get upset about this, oh, I've paid my taxes over my time and I deserve the subsidies. Fine. Fine. I'm not saying don't take the subsidies. I'm saying your plan should not depend on you being subsidized across a 30 year early retirement. If it does, that's a bad plan. Take the subsidies while they're, while they're available, but know that you're at risk of having to pay those premiums in some form or other at some point in your early retirement. And if your plan can't handle that, your plan could blow up. Real risk.

A (16:16)

Yep, absolutely.

B (16:17)

Mindy, what's the fourth mistake people make?

A (16:19)

Ooh, the fourth mistake is leaving out the big expenses. The one time expenses. Hey, Scott, do you have two daughters?

B (16:27)

I do.

A (16:28)

And traditionally, does the daughter's family pay for the wedding?

B (16:34)

Yep.

A (16:34)

Are you planning on paying for your daughter's weddings?

B (16:37)

I think yes, I am planning on paying for my daughter's weddings. And yes, they're probably going to be pretty nice given that, you know, given the size of the Disney princess dress collection that is already progressing in our household.

A (16:51)

Hey, are they going to go to college? Maybe. Would you pay for that too? There's big things that are coming up down the road. Your daughters are three and one. So weddings in college aren't in your mind right now. If they're not part of your current situation, it's real easy for those to just get forgotten about. I know you have a beautiful house, but something's gonna break. Sorry to burst your bubble. Something is gonna break in your house and you're gonna need to pay for that. And a roof. In Colorado, a roof costs 12 to $15,000 if you're paying for it out of pocket. And like 30 or $40,000 if you're insurance company is paying for it. There's also H vac systems. That's going to be about $12,000 to replace the whole thing. There's appliances, water heaters. Your house has a lot of things that are going to break, I promise you. Everything in your house is going to break at some point, depending on how long you own the house. So you're going to need a budget for those repairs too. Caring for your parents, there's all sorts of big expenses. Having an extra little bucket of big expense money. Maybe you fund this as you are going and you're having a bunch of really up years. You're like, oh, I'll just siphon off a little bit more and put it in my big expense bucket. Or maybe you make a big expense bucket that you continue to replenish as these big expenses come up.

B (18:12)

You know, when I was earning a very high income as CEO of BiggerPockets, I didn't have time to really Shop many of these things, and I had to make quick decisions with a reliable contractor. Basically, now I can take care of large chunks of these projects or rigorously shop each one of these. These areas. Right. I can make, I can make much higher quality decisions and spend time to reduce those costs pretty meaningfully. So that's a real offset to some of these life capital expenditures, if you will, or the big expenses that come up infrequently. On the other hand, they're real expenses and you have to account for them. And I think that some people take projections of their best case spending, which is obviously irresponsible, and don't factor in a very nice margin or buffer every month or every year for these types of things. And if you know certain big ones are coming up and you're not prepared for them, they can catch you by surprise. Personally, I'm choosing to consider my fire number, you know, inclusive of having to fund college, a full, you know, pretty expensive college education for my two kids. Many people choose not to go that far or not to fund any college for their children at all. That's a personal choice, though. But you have to make a decision about each one of these big expenses and where you want to end up. And I think for me it's. I want to cover college and I'm probably going to cover, you know, I'm planning tentatively on covering some nice weddings if my, My two. My two daughters choose to get married.

A (19:32)

Yep. And it's just, it's a choice. All of these options are choices. All of these mistakes are things that you might not be thinking about when you're calculating your fine number, which is why we're bringing it up. You don't have to pay for your weddings of your children. You don't have to pay for college. But, but why are you saving all this money and then not going to help out your kids too, if you have kids? Not everybody has kids, Mindy.

B (19:54)

I have a quick question on a side tangent here. Which season of life do you think that people want to spend the most money in? You know, like, it wasn't 23 for me. It's certainly, I'm certainly grateful to be able to spend more Money now at 35 with two kids. Will I want to have peak spending now or will I want to have it when they're in high school, after they graduate? What do you think about that?

A (20:14)

Oh, that's a really good question, Scott. I'm almost thinking, because it's the season of life I'm in right now is when My kids are in high school and college, so I'm 53. I have one kid freshman year in college, and the other kid is a sophomore in high school. I want to take trips with them now that it's enjoyable to take trips with them when they're three in one. There's a lot of nap times. There's a lot of, like, their routine gets messed up and they don't have the ability to go with the flow. They're just little and they're used to, I don't know. Have you ever had a meltdown on a vacation?

B (20:51)

Yes, we. We did a whole analysis of the trip to Breckenridge and the, you know, tier to dollar ratio, which is extremely high, versus trip to local library, water fountain, which was free, full of giggles. Everyone got nap time in. There was no altitude sickness, all of those types of things.

A (21:05)

Yeah. So now in my 50s is my big spending season. And I think that after Daphne graduates high school and goes off to college, that'll be an even bigger spending season because Carl and I are going to incorporate some travel into our lives that, you know, that doesn't include the girls. It's fun to travel with the girls. It's also fun to travel just the two of us. So I think, like, late 40s to early 60s is probably a really great big spending time.

B (21:36)

That's really interesting. And I'm. I would. I would have hypothesized that right now would be my peak spending because of childcare costs with the two little ones, and, like, that would dwarf the travel. But that could be completely wrong. And so I think that that's where people need to make decisions about all of this stuff and say, where am I right now? Like, certainly, I'm so glad to be able to spend more now at 35 than I did at 23. I didn't need to spend much at 23 to have a really good life and be very happy with my situation. Now that really is valuable to be able to have childcare for our two little ones, to be able to pursue this and other interests that we have. I didn't think about the cost of travel, you know, with. With two girls in my 40s or maybe early 50s, but that could be a pretty big expense that I want to be planning for, maybe as big or exceeding the childcare budget. Although I will say that that feels more discretionary than the child care expense right now.

A (22:25)

Yeah. And when you asked me this question, I was thinking about stuff I want to spend money on. You might appreciate the money that you're spending for child care. But that's not like yay, I get to write another check to child care as opposed to yay, I get to go on another trip and it's going to cost money and I'm okay with that. That's what I was thinking of. More like discretionary spending. I'm super excited to spend discretionarily. I still make my mortgage payments, but that's not exciting.

B (22:51)

Your business identity is everything that makes your business legitimate and professional, from public records and compliance to your website, email and phone number. With Northwest Registered Agent, you don't just form a business. You start with a complete foundation built for privacy, credibility and growth. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you all the free tools you need after you form like operating agreements, meeting minutes, and thousands of guides that explains all the ins and outs of running a business. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree and start using free resources to build something amaz. Get more with Northwest registered agent@northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree.

A (23:37)

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates Fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored jobs on indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored posts. The best part? No monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you. 23 people just got hired through Indeed Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com biggerpocket just go to indeed.com biggerpockets right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com biggerpockets terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

B (24:38)

It's time to bring on the blooms at the Home Depot with spring garden deals. Find savings on hanging baskets and flowers to brighten your backyard or any space that needs instant color. Then get everything you need to plant and protect them. With low prices guaranteed on soil and mulch. Dig into Spring garden deals for four days at the Home Depot now through May 10th exclusion supply. See homedepot.com pricematch for details.

A (25:09)

All right, Scott, what is our fifth mistake that people make when they are calculating their phi number?

B (25:14)

I think it's this concept of not stress testing your phi number or keeping it all purely academic for the entirety of the time leading up to your retirement and never actually putting hard numbers to it. Right. Not actually beginning to sell portions of a portfolio. We had a gentleman named Frank Vasquez on the show in the summer of 2025, and he had a great simple tip for this, which is take $10,000 out of your portfolio and put it into your retirement or decumulation portfolio and begin selling it off and harvesting it, even if it's just for lunch or dinner once a month, in order to really build that muscle of decumulation or spending your portfolio. So it's not totally academic for you heading into retirement. We did a poll on BiggerPockets money a while back, and some 80% of the people who watch or listen to BiggerPockets money have never sold any equity or no stocks, no assets whatsoever to fund consumption in their lives. And so that's a challenge. It's a big mental hurdle to get over, even if you are very proficient in the theory. When it's time to begin approaching your phi number, what do you think, Mindy?

A (26:19)

I think one of the best examples of this stress testing your phi number was from Christy and Bryce way back on episode 55 and episode 55 and a half. So a little over halfway through the recording of episode 55, Bryce casually says, we had three years of Runway before we actually pulled the trigger. And I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? He said, oh, we had our portfolio. And we tested living off of our portfolio only for three years while we were still working. So they had this safety net so they could stress test it. They put all their money, all their income someplace else and just lived off the portfolio. And they saw that it worked great. They've now been retired for more than 10 years and they do earn income. They've got a book and a podcast and a website and all of this, but they put all of their income in a different bucket and they live solely off of the portfolio that they planned. And in 10 years, they have withdrawn 4% every single year. They have more money now than they had 10 years ago when they started after taking the the 4% out every single year, not including all the extra income that's in a separate bucket, they wanted to see if they could do it off of the 4% rule. And it's been working for them.

B (27:40)

Also throw in one last thing here on this stress testing component, which is the lower your fixed expenses are, the easier everything else gets with fire. Right? Because you know, a paid off mortgage or paid off cars, low insurance costs that you've shopped. Right. A very strong baseline food expense for what you're eating, you know, solid whatever gym or infrastructure solid fund that you're. That's your kind of your go to. If you can keep those expenses low, your discretionary spending number can be very, very high in financial independence. And most of that can be flexible. And I think that's a pretty big mistake people make is they come into to FI with huge fixed expenses thinking they're going to arbitrage, you know, their mortgage rate or their car loans or whatever with the stock market returns. But that can make a pretty big dent if you're close to your FI number on what you can actually spend discretionarily.

A (28:28)

Yes.

B (28:29)

All right, let's talk about the last mistake.

A (28:31)

Okay, Scott, the last mistake that most people make is underestimating that they'll never make income again. It is a very romantic notion to say to yourself, I am going to quit my job and I am ever going back. Who do you know that doesn't generate some form of income even after they have quit their formal employment?

B (28:52)

We know from our polling data of the bigger pockets money audience. A third of you are intending to start a business or go into some kind of self employment work when you become financially independent. Another third of you are open to it and a third of you definitely don't want to earn any additional income. And I think that for that third that definitely don't want to earn any additional income. I love the. I'm not planning on earning any additional income. My plan is robust enough to survive without it. But I think it's a mistake to lock yourself into this identity of never earning another dollar again and make it some kind of academic purity test to do that in your financial independence. Be open to it. That totally softens the constraints on the 4% rule or the risk factors we've talked about previously here. And you may find that you want to spend a little bit extra money here and there if it's very easy to pick up a couple of briefcases full of money that are just off the beaten path of your otherwise envisioned early retirement. So I think, I think that, that maybe that's even a broader mistake I'll point out here, which is this identity that people form on the pursuit of fire, that they're frugal or that they're never going to work again in there. And that can be a handicap or crutch for you in your early retirement and that we've spent a lot of time unpacking here on the BiggerPockets Money podcast.

A (30:04)

Yeah, I think that there's a lot of money that gets made by accident. I think that people have this idea, oh, I'm never going to work again. My friend Eric was never going to work again. He retired, he's got enough money, he's fine. But then his friend who has a his own company said, hey, I've got this interesting problem. And Eric said, you know what, that sounds interesting. I would like to come back and work with you and help you solve this problem. And he worked there for a while and then he left. He hadn't planned to make more money, but he just did. I think that's going to happen a, a lot for, for people in this space because they'll find an interesting problem. People who are able to solve the problem of financial independence and early retirement are going to be problem solvers that other people will come to. I can think of one person. Darren and Jolene. And Jolene has a. A wine blog. I think she makes $400 a year. So, you know, really raking it in. And I don't count that as income, even though it is technically income. 400 a year is not going to do anything for their life. It'll buy gas to get to my house. That's about it. Otherwise, everybody I know who has retired early has some form of significant income that they have generated. Maybe they've made enough money to pay for their expenses the whole year, or maybe they've made enough money to travel extensively. They're not generating a ton of income, but they're generating enough that it's significant that it makes a dent in their. Their needed fine number.

B (31:44)

Yeah. And even a small amount of ordinary earned income does an enormous amount of work offsetting the risks that are known in the 4% rule or other withdrawal ratios. It can bump up your safe withdrawal rate or, you know, dramatically increase the certainty of never running out of money in early retirement. So it's a very powerful tool. It does not have to be some sort of conditional thing for retirement. But just being open to it and thinking about it after the first six months or year or two of early retirement can really make a Dent and be helpful. Mindy. I'll exit us on one what I think a lot of people in the fire community do right component, which is after leaving full time work we see a huge percentage or a significant percentage of people in the FYR community get very fit. Have you noticed this?

A (32:29)

I have noticed this. You don't really have time to work out when you're working a full time job, but once you stop working the full time job, that becomes kind of your priority. I like to work out in the mornings. I don't want to work out in the afternoon. Then I got to think about it all day. But in the morning I get up, I go to the gym. It's awesome. Like my class starts at 7:30 when I was working at Bigger Pockets and had to be in the office at at 7 o'. Clock. That or 8 o' clock or 9 o' clock or whenever. I can't go to the gym at 7:30 and I don't want to get up early enough to go to the gym at 5:30.

B (33:02)

I would argue that I don't know if the fire community does this intentionally or not, but I think what it feels good, but it also increases lifespan, increases health span, reduces the risk of needing to use that health insurance item there and makes your brain function better. So when those opportunities to make money come about, you might be able to harvest them pretty efficiently in an ad hoc basis. So you know, I think that that's the absolutely one of the best things that a lot of people in the fire community seem to do when they actually pull the trigger and fire. And I think that that's something that we collectively should continue to do. It's such a powerful benefit.

A (33:35)

Yes, absolutely. What is the point of being early retired if you are not healthy enough to go enjoy it and it gives

B (33:43)

you so many options if things begin to go poorly in the market.

A (33:46)

Market. Okay, Scott, your fine number is going to evolve over time. But thinking about all of these aspects of early retirement and these mistakes that we have shared before you get to retirement, start thinking about that now. That'll help shape your actual fine number, not your on paper 4% rule fine number.

B (34:04)

Yep. Let's wrap it up and put a pin in it. Right. So the mistakes are one, not using your fire number to project your expenses in retirement and using some arbitrary rule of replacing some component of your income while you're in your active years. Those are opposites. They don't make any sense. The second is understanding that the 4% rule is a rule of thumb based on static inflation adjusted spending. And your spending may be different from that. It will almost certainly be different from that baseline with respect to health care specifically. And you may have other big ones like home repairs, weddings, college expenses or elder care coming up in your situation. Only you know that you must project those defensibly as you move into your financial independence dependence journey. The next one is not stress testing your phi number, making it all academic leading up to this turning point where you go from earning lots of active income to earning none. That's a big mistake. It's a psychological battle that many people defer for years because they don't have to put in place the system to do that ahead of time. And the biggest remedy, or the best remedy is perhaps creating a small chunk of your portfolio that is your decumulation portfolio and practicing that skill of decumulation and spending leading up to your fire. And the last mistake is shutting the door entirely to earning active income in your early retirement. Almost 2/3 of the BiggerPocket's money community are at least open to that idea and I think that drastically increases your options. And to me, fire is about options. People who are very rigid in their interpretation of fire and treat it as some kind of moral purity test to be very frugal or live exactly on the 4% rule without earning any active income income. I think you're missing the point of what we're trying to do here. And I think that some active income is almost certain to come into your life if you are even open to it at all over the course of an early retirement.

A (35:46)

Yeah, you're going to get a lot of opportunities and you might want to take one of those opportunities. So don't assume that you're never going to generate any more income.

B (35:55)

Just don't go back to work full time. Right.

A (35:57)

Unless it's really interesting.

B (35:59)

Fair enough. And then number one thing you can do right is get fit.

A (36:02)

Yes, focus on your health. All right Scott, this was super fun. And listeners, if we missed a mistake that you have discovered on your journey to five, please let us know. Share it in the comments below or email mindy biggerpocketsmoney.com or scott@biggerpocketsmoney.com we want to make sure that we're sharing all of the information that everybody else knows. This this collective mindset of reaching 5. Let's all do it together. If you would like more financial independence information, you can hop on over to biggerpockets money.com Sign up for our newsletter. Check out our Resources page One thing that Scott spends hours doing is creating new resources on our Resources page. Calculators, templates to accelerate your FI journey. He's been real busy. Check it out at biggerpocketsmoney.com and biggerpocketsmoney.com resources. All right, Scott, should we get out of here?

B (36:56)

Let's do it.

A (36:56)

That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen saying See ya Cheetah.

B (37:03)

When you're ready to start your business, Northwest Registered Agent helps you do more than just file paperwork. You get all the tools to build a real business identity from day one. A business address, a website, a phone number, an operating agreement, free guides and more at no extra cost. Northwest is your one stop business resource. Build a professional website, stay in good standing with on time annual filings, get simple explanations of corporate bylaws and more. With Northwest privacy comes standard. Your data is never sold and all services are handled in house under their privacy by default. Promise. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent@northwestregisteredagent.com moneyfree

A (37:49)

some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now@bloomberg.com.