2025 Long-Distance Investing Blueprint (Listen Before Buying)

Summary

BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast: Episode 2025 – Long-Distance Investing Blueprint (Listen Before Buying)
Release Date: July 9, 2025
Hosts: D. Dave Meyer and Henry Washington
Duration: Approximately 38 minutes

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Introduction

In Episode 2025 of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast, hosts D. Dave Meyer and Henry Washington delve into the intricacies of long-distance real estate investing. Aimed at empowering investors to achieve financial freedom through strategic property acquisitions away from their home markets, this episode serves as a comprehensive guide for those considering expanding their investment horizons.

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Choosing the Midwest: A Strategic Decision

Timestamp [00:00 – 05:37]

The episode kicks off with Dave and Henry announcing their upcoming Midwest Cash Flow Roadshow, focusing on Milwaukee, Chicago, and Indianapolis. Their choice of the Midwest is underpinned by a combination of affordability, strong rental markets, and robust economic indicators.

Key Points:

• Affordability Meets Opportunity:
  Dave emphasizes Chicago's affordability compared to other major cities, noting, "Median home price in Chicago is $350,000. Find me another major city with an economy like Chicago that has price points like that" ([05:29]).

• Economic and Infrastructure Strength:
  Henry highlights the economic symbiosis between major cities and their suburbs, stating, "there's just a lot of economics and infrastructure that make for what could potentially be a good real estate market" ([04:38]).

• Cash Flow Potential:
  The duo discusses how the Great Lakes region presents a "perfect storm" for cash flow, combining affordable home prices with strong rental incomes and job growth ([04:38]).

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Planning the Cash Flow Roadshow

Timestamp [02:01 – 03:23]

Dave outlines the logistical aspects of their roadshow, detailing their itinerary from Milwaukee to Chicago and finally Indianapolis. He underscores the importance of efficient planning to maximize the trip's productivity.

Key Points:

• Itinerary Strategy:
  The chosen corridor between Milwaukee and Chicago offers a blend of major city dynamics and smaller, affordable markets within a manageable driving distance ([03:23]).

• Event Invitations:
  Listeners in the Great Lakes region are invited to free meetups in Chicago and Indianapolis on July 15th and 16th, respectively, fostering community engagement and networking opportunities ([02:38]).

---

Building Your Long-Distance Investment Team

Timestamp [06:36 – 19:37]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to assembling a reliable local team—an essential factor for successful long-distance investing.

Key Points:

• Importance of a Local Team:
  Henry stresses, "real estate investing is a team sport" and highlights agents and property managers as crucial components ([06:43]).

• Interviewing Agents:
  Dave advises interviewing multiple agents to gauge their market understanding without revealing specific investment parameters initially. He shares a strategy of asking agents, "if you were me and you had unlimited time and money, what would you invest in?" to assess their expertise ([14:12], [15:20]).

• Notable Quotes:

  • Henry on agent communication: "If you don't have good communication, then details get missed, deals get lost" ([13:35]).
  • Dave on agent success stories: "Show me success stories of your clients in the market... it teaches you so much" ([17:44]).

• Property Manager Insights:
  Henry offers a bonus for listeners—a list of 25 questions to ask potential property managers, emphasizing the need for proactive management and alignment with the investor’s philosophy ([19:37]).

---

Evaluating Neighborhoods: Beyond the Numbers

Timestamp [24:00 – 34:19]

The hosts transition to discussing how to assess neighborhoods effectively during their roadshow.

Key Points:

• Pre-Trip Research:
  Investors should identify potential neighborhoods based on data and seek agents' recommendations for additional areas ([27:27]).

• On-the-Ground Evaluation:
  Henry advises visiting neighborhoods at different times, including evenings, to get a true sense of safety and community dynamics ([27:11], [28:38]).

• Strategic Alignment:
  Depending on investment goals—whether seeking established desirable areas or emerging "path of progress" neighborhoods—investors should tailor their neighborhood evaluations accordingly ([29:33], [30:00]).

• Housing Stock Quality:
  Dave underscores the importance of assessing the overall quality of housing in a neighborhood, not just individual properties, to gauge potential appreciation and tenant appeal ([31:27]).

---

Final Tips and Best Practices

Timestamp [34:25 – 37:35]

As the episode nears its conclusion, Dave and Henry offer additional strategies to optimize long-distance investing endeavors.

Key Points:

• Community Engagement:
  Attending city council meetings, chamber of commerce gatherings, and local investor meetups can facilitate valuable connections and insights ([35:46], [36:26]).

• Seasonal Visits:
  Visiting markets during off-peak seasons like spring or fall allows investors to experience neighborhoods beyond their best days, avoiding deceptive impressions that could arise from touring only during peak seasons ([35:47], [37:16]).

• Operational Considerations:
  Henry reminds investors to account for local operational costs, such as snow removal in colder climates, which can impact profitability ([37:35]).

---

Conclusion and Call to Action

Timestamp [37:52 – End]

Dave and Henry wrap up the episode by reiterating the value of their Midwest roadshow and encouraging listeners to join their upcoming free meetups in Chicago and Indianapolis.

Key Points:

• Join the Roadshow:
  Listeners are invited to attend the free Cash Flow Roadshow events in Chicago on July 15th and Indianapolis on July 16th by RSVPing at biggerpockets.com/roadshow.

• Stay Connected:
  For further questions or personalized advice, listeners are encouraged to reach out via BiggerPockets or Instagram, fostering a supportive community for real estate investors.

---

Key Takeaways

1. Strategic Market Selection:
   Choosing markets like Milwaukee, Chicago, and Indianapolis offers a blend of affordability, strong rental demand, and economic stability.

2. Assembling a Reliable Local Team:
   Prioritizing communication and investor experience when selecting agents and property managers is crucial for long-distance success.

3. Thorough Neighborhood Evaluation:
   Combining data-driven research with on-the-ground assessments ensures informed investment decisions.

4. Community Integration:
   Actively participating in local events and meetings can unveil hidden opportunities and streamline investment operations.

5. Operational Readiness:
   Understanding and planning for local operational costs and seasonal challenges can safeguard investment profitability.

---

By following the blueprint outlined in this episode, aspiring long-distance investors can emulate the strategies of seasoned professionals, positioning themselves for sustained success in diverse real estate markets.

Transcript

[D. Dave]

We tell you every week on this show that cash flow is possible in 2025. And now we're going to prove it. I'm here with Henry Washington and we're going to give you our blueprint for long distance investing in affordable cash flowing markets so you can copy exactly what the experts do before buying away from home. So if you're even considering buying outside of your area, this is what to do before you bid. Everyone, it's D. Dave. I'm the head of real estate investing at Biggerpockets and I'm joined today by my friend Henry Washington. Henry, thanks for being here.

[Henry Washington]

Hey, what's up, bud? Glad to be here.

[D. Dave]

I think it's safe to say, like, you are not officially a long distance investor yet, right?

[Henry Washington]

Right. I mean, kind of, sort of, but not really. I have a mobile home park that I would truly call out of state. I have some properties in other states, but those I don't consider true out of state investments because I can be there in 45 minutes to an hour.

[D. Dave]

You haven't done it yet, but we've been talking about it a lot. So I know you're interested in it. Right? You're interested in it enough to the point where everyone should know this. Henry and I are actually going to be going and driving around the Midwest looking for cash flowing deals, cash flowing markets on the first ever cash flow roadshow. I'm super excited about it. Henry, what are you, what are you looking forward to?

[Henry Washington]

Well, first of all, I'm a deal junkie. Like, I just like looking at deals, whether they're mine or somebody else's, it doesn't matter. And learning about real estate in general. But it's different when you're analyzing, analyzing deals online than when you're actually in a market and touching and feeling the market and seeing the people who live there and seeing where they work and just kind of how people operate within that market because it helps you understand better whether a deal truly is a good deal. Like looking at a deal on paper and then going and seeing that deal in person can sometimes be completely different. And so I'm just most excited about learning about these markets firsthand with my own eyes and being within the communities.

[D. Dave]

Absolutely. So in this episode, what we're doing here today is we're going to talk to you about, first and foremost, why we chose the Midwest to go on this little road trip that we're going on and the three markets that we're going to be visiting. We're going to talk about logistically step by step how we're planning for the trip. The number one priorities that you should be thinking about. You want to make these things efficient as possible. So we're going to talk about that and we're going to just share with you a couple tips about long distance investing along the way. But just before we get into that, I just want to invite everyone, if you happen to live in the Great Lakes region, to our free events that we're going to have as part of the Cash Flow Roadshow, Chicago. It's on July 15th. It's at a brewery. We will put the link in the bio, but you can just go to biggerpockets.com roadshow and check that out. And then the next night on July 16th, we're having one in Indianapolis. So definitely come check that out. They are free, free events. We're going to have lots of giveaways, surprises. It's going to be fun. But you do have to rsvp. So make sure to RSVP if you want to come. We hope to see you there. And with that, let's get into the episode. All right, so let's talk about this trip. We are flying into Wisconsin. We're starting in the Milwaukee region. Then we're going to Chicago, then we're going to Indianapolis. I'm like the data guy coming out with the list. You pick this. You were like, I want to go to the, what do you call it, like the Milwaukee, Chicago like corridor.

[Henry Washington]

Yeah, absolutely.

[D. Dave]

Why?

[Henry Washington]

I think it's kind of a unique scenario because you have two major city hubs and then in between those major city hubs, it's only about a two hour drive. And then there's smaller cities in between these two major cities. And these two major cities are fairly affordable for a major city market in the first place. And then on top of that you have great rents because there's great jobs in these two major cities. And, and you've got these suburbs in between these two major cities where a lot of people are living and commuting to these two major cities. And the larger corporations have started to realize this and have started to come in and build offices to take advantage of some of these workers. And the cities have spent money on infrastructure to help people get in and out of these major cities. And so there's just a lot of economics and infrastructure that make for what could potentially be a good real estate market. On top of that, you have affordability in terms of home pricing and great rents to go with it. And so in my head, it just seems like this could be a perfect storm for a real estate investor might want to spend their money.

[D. Dave]

Are you actually interested in buying here? Like, I know you, you've.

[Henry Washington]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Look, man, I told you I've said it before. I'll say it again. This perfect storm of data points, real estate investors, and a perfect storm in the Great Lakes area creates what? Lake effect. Cash flow, baby. They're trying to give me some of that.

[D. Dave]

Okay, so that's one area I think. You know, I've said this before. I think Chicago is like this slept on investor city. I think people have this like vision of what Chicago is. Are there pockets that are have no cash flow? Sure. Are there pockets that might have high crime? Sure. But like it's an enormous city and there are like really interesting good parts of it and it's so affordable. Median home price and Chicago is $350,000. Find me another major city with an economy like Chicago that has price points like that.

[Henry Washington]

I mean, the only other major city I can think of that has an economy like Chicago is New York. And it ain't a median home price of $350,000. No, I can tell you that.

[D. Dave]

No, it's like triple that, right? Yeah, it's crazy. And so, yeah, I think that, that there's a lot to go there. And then lastly on our trip, Indianapolis. I mean that this just has like some of the strongest metrics of any city right now. It's affordable. The home prices are still like 2,250, but has huge population growth, jobs are moving there, there's favorable laws. Like there's a lot to like there. And I generally just like the Midwest. I'm always hawking the Midwest on this show because, like, I just think affordability is so key to the housing market right now. You know, in an era of low interest rates, it's different, but an era of higher interest rates, I think, and you see this in the data, the areas where there's still a lot of activity going on are the affordable markets. And if we stay on this path, the trajectory that we're on right now, it seems like affordability is going to continue to be a key driver of performance for investors. And so that's just why I like the Great Lakes in particular so much on top of the cash flow.

[Henry Washington]

Yeah, no, I agree wholeheartedly.

[D. Dave]

So, Henry, talk to me a little bit about what are you looking for? What are your concerns? What are you hoping to learn?

[Henry Washington]

First thing I'm looking for is a team in that area because real estate investing is A team sport. Even here in my own backyard, I have several people that either directly work on my team or indirectly work with me who frankly, without them I would be in a world of hurt. And so getting on the ground and starting to meet people who could potentially work with me on my team is huge for me because. Because that team is even gonna be more valuable than my current in market team because I'm not there. And I don't care what anybody says. It is hard to build professional relationships with people unless you're on the ground with them. Like zoom meetings only go so far. But when you can get on the ground and meet people and see their work, see how they work in person, I think is huge. And so mostly real estate agents and property managers are gonna be the two big keys. Next in line for me is contractors. But those two things are really important for me to get out there, see, meet, talk to and see how they work. Because people can tell you how they can work all day and you can even call and get references. But when you go and you see how somebody operates their business, it's it, it speaks volumes.

[D. Dave]

Absolutely. What I usually do is try and look for, I'd say at least two, probably three agents going and interviewing them. For me, that's probably the number one thing. I think that is probably the most important thing you could do. Or do you hold property manager just as high?

[Henry Washington]

Well, they're both important, but for me the agent comes first because the agent's really going to start to help feed you these potential deals, whether they're on the market or off the market. They're your kind of first gateway and they can introduce you to those property managers who are, you know, air quotes, the good ones. Because if they're truly good real estate agents, investor friendly agents, they know exactly who the good property managers are and who are not. So I'd rather take warm intros to property managers from a seasoned real estate investor than to just start calling property managers cold.

[D. Dave]

I think the reason the agent's so important is yes, feed me deals, run a transaction, but their network is extremely important. Extremely important. You want to find an agent who is not going to just execute on your deals, but can connect you to a property manager. I'm always going out and meeting new property managers to help my clients. I'm meeting with contractors because I service a lot of out of state investors. Like, these are the kinds of things that really matter.

[Henry Washington]

Absolutely.

[D. Dave]

You can absolutely find a property manager who can be like your anchor in the community and you can use their network. I've just personally found that agents usually are better for that and take that part of their job very seriously. If you're going to be working with.

[Henry Washington]

Investors, any good agent will have a database of lenders that they have relationships with. They're going to have property managers, they're going to have contractors, subcontractors. And I said it earlier, warm intros are so much better than reaching out cold. If you reach out to somebody via a warm intro to a trusted professional, people typically answer the phone, they typically answer their messages, they typically prioritize you. And so it really does speed up the process for you.

[D. Dave]

All right, well, let's get into the actual questions and things that you should be doing when you interview both an agent, property manager, anyone else you meet along the way. We do have to take a quick break, though. We'll be right back.

[Unknown]

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[D. Dave]

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[D. Dave]

Welcome back to the BiggerPockets podcast. Here with Henry Washington, talk about our blueprint for out of state investing. And specifically today we're really talking about how to do the final step of out of state investing, which is going to a market, building a team, finding the specific neighborhoods that you want to go invest in. That is going to give you the confidence if you want to pursue this kind of strategy to go out and actually do it. We're talking about specific questions to ask, so we've talked about an agent being the most important. So Henry, what are some things that you think our audience, if they're going to do this as well, should be asking agents when they're considering working with them in a long distance market.

[Henry Washington]

So for me, communication is top of my list because if you don't have good communication, then details get missed, deals get lost, things don't get signed at appropriate times, money can be lost. And so you want to make sure first and foremost that you understand how you like to communicate and how you like to be communicated with. And then you want to make sure that your agent is willing to communicate with you in the way that you need to be communicated with. Because if that's a miss on Jump street, it doesn't matter how good they are with everything else. If you guys aren't going to be able to communicate in a way that's beneficial for you both, then you shouldn't work with that person.

[D. Dave]

Dude, I'm having this problem. I have an agent I really like in a market I'm considering investing in and he just doesn't respond to emails very quickly. And it kind of like I get that some people text, but like I'm in front of a computer all day, I need it in a couple days. Like it can't be a week later. And it's like he might be great on text or phone and that's fine. But like as a long distance investor, like I can't be on the phone all the time. So like I need it to be asynchronous. So email.

[Henry Washington]

That is a perfect example. If you are one of my students, I would tell you first that you need to have a heart to heart conversation with them and let them know truly that this is important to you and how you need to be communicated with. And if it doesn't work.

[D. Dave]

That's right.

[Henry Washington]

And if it doesn't work from that point, then you go, you find another one. Even if they're the best agent in that market, if you guys can't communicate, then you're going to be upset a lot. Things are going to get missed and it's going to end up costing you time or money.

[D. Dave]

All right, Communication. That's a really good one. First question I always ask to every agent is like, what's the move? I leave it very open on purpose. I don't say my buy box is a duplex or 450,000 because I'm not testing at that point their ability to find me the deal. I want, I want to see how well they understand the market. Big picture. Like if you were me and you had unlimited time and money, what would you invest in in this market? Because it's different in every market. Right. Like some it's duplex, some it's single family, some it's commercial, some it's this price point. Show me that you know exactly the best possible investments in your city. And so I recommend people do that is just keep it super vague and see if they can convince you of something. And you may still eventually tell them, hey, I have this buy box. Like this is what I want to buy. That's fine. But at this point in the interview, it's gotta be super high level. And you're testing them on their market knowledge.

[Henry Washington]

Absolutely. When you ask somebody that question, if they're truly going to give you a good answer, it's going to involve them understanding who the customers are in that market, who the tenants are, why they want to rent a certain thing, or why they want to buy a certain thing, where they want to rent or where they want to buy it. That answer should include some information about market data. How long things are taking to sell, what areas of the town things are going fast or going slow in. It shows you that they truly understand multiple facets of their market. To be able to come up with a strategy that would make sense for their market. And so you're right. Even if that strategy isn't something you want to do.

[D. Dave]

Yeah.

[Henry Washington]

Knowing that they know their market well enough to put together a strategy that might make sense gives you a ton of comfort.

[D. Dave]

That's exactly right. I was at a meetup the other day in Seattle and I don't really know if and what my strategy in this market will be. But I was just talking to an agent, and she was like, yeah, if you're going to invest here, my recommendation is, like, to buy between 900,001.125 million in these five neighborhoods. Because what's selling really quickly right now is in that 1.5 to $1.7 million band, and after renovation costs, this is what's going to move for you quickly. I was like, like, yeah, this person rocks. This person knows exactly how to make money in this market. And, like, just gave me a prescription for, like, what would work if I were to choose to do that. And, like, that's the kind of level of specificity and detail that I really think you need. Okay. Any other interview questions you have for agents? I have one more, but if you have any more, go for it.

[Henry Washington]

I just want to make sure that these people are actual investors or mostly work with investors, because that will help me solidify if it's somebody that I should be working with. Because if you are an investor, there's so many conversations that we don't have to have because you already understand where I'm coming from, right? Like, I don't want to have to educate you on investing while we're working together. So I don't want to have to waste a lot of time telling you why something's not a great investment, telling you why it's not a great deal, or telling you why I will or will not make a decision that you want me to make about a property because you don't understand it from an investing standpoint. Trust me, you're going to waste a lot of time with people who don't have investing experience. I don't want you to question me every time I need to make an offer at 50 or $70,000 less than what's listed.

[D. Dave]

Yeah, right, right. And that. That actually leads me to the one I was going to say, which is show me success stories of your clients in the market. And to your point, show me your portfolio. Where are you buying, what are you doing right now, and why? And walk me through the numbers and literally drive me there and show me the. Show me this market. Like that. To me, you learn so much. Because if they tell you and you're like, hey, this person really thought through where to buy, what to buy it for, how to negotiate this deal, that is going to teach you a lot. I just find, like, sometimes you drive around a city with these people, and they're like, oh, I sold that house, or I bought this house, or like my client bought that house. And you're like, like, great. Like, this person knows every block, you know, like, that's the kind of person, like, you just get it driving around. It's different than them saying, I had 40 transactions last year. Or it's like, oh, actually that's my friend, he's renovating that house. Like, when you. This will happen. If you go with a good agent, this kind of stuff will happen. And it teaches you so much.

[Henry Washington]

I've asked agents before what their LLC name is and then gone on the county records and looked up to see how many properties they owned. In most states, you can literally pull up their LLC and it'll show you every property that the LLC owns. And then you can ask specific questions, especially if they own properties in neighborhoods you're interested in.

[D. Dave]

All right, so that's agent. That was a lot of good advice there. What about property managers?

[Henry Washington]

Property managers are huge and I'm actually willing to give everybody a little gift for listening to this show. So if you are listening and you are going to be interviewing property managers, I actually have a list of questions, 25 questions you should ask a potential property manager. And that way you can just go down the list and it even has the answers you're looking for and why on them. So super helpful for me. Happy to share that with everybody.

[D. Dave]

What are some of the 25 that you think are better in person? Like the ones that you would want to prioritize when you're actually face to face with someone?

[Henry Washington]

One of the things I think is important is finding out how frequently they actually go inside of a property and having them verify that with you. And so my property manager is inside of the units quarterly for just random checkups on maintenance items, but it allows them to get into the units four times a year. And then they send me a report of what the units look like, if they were good, not good, and what was happening if they don't have a clear answer for you about how frequently they're going into a unit. If they're just like, oh, I mean, we rent it out and then we'll, you know, we'll check on it if something comes up here or there. Like that's not okay for me. Like you should have a dialed in process where you know when you're going in units and why that's just something you should look for in general. Like if they're answering your questions vaguely at all. It tells me that they don't have a process around this. It's not something that's important to them or that they do. And so you need to understand, like, you need to know if that's something that you're okay with. The other thing I like to ask is how do they get paid? And not just on the percentage of the rents that they're keeping as your property management fee. But a lot of property managers are collecting fees in other ways. In other words, if they're getting paid for lease ups every time and they're not getting paid for tenants who chose to stay, then they're incentivized for you to have turnover. And I don't want to have additional turnover if I have a good tenant because you want to make an extra 100 to 300 bucks because you put a new tenant in place for sure. So you want to make sure that your property managers are incentivized for things that are good for you as the landlord.

[D. Dave]

All right, very good advice here. And I'll put That list of 25 property manager questions up on our show notes. You know, the other thing I just recommend while you're in person is ask or find out where your property manager's properties are and go visit them. Because you can learn so much just from the exterior. You don't even need to be able to go inside. Go look at how nice the property is on the exterior. If the grass is overrun, if things are falling off the walls, like, it is a red flag. For me, I think it's super important to find a property manager who shares your philosophy about tenant relationships. I think this is a big issue. Sometimes there are owners who don't want to spend money. The door hinge is squeaky. They don't want to do it. I personally am the opposite of that. It's like, oh, the tenant doesn't like the door. Like, fix the hinges, you know, like, go do it. It's 50 bucks. Go do it. Like, to me, of the course of your investing career, one, having great tenants is part of the job. Like, you need to find great tenants. That's, to me, really important. And so I always want to find a property manager who is proactive. I don't want to wait until I hear about it from the tenants or something else that's going on. Whatever. The dishwasher is not working properly. Like, I want the property manager to be going out and soliciting that information from the tenants to make sure that they're always happy. And I've told all of my property managers 200 bucks or less. Just go fix it. You know, Like I would, I just want you to go fix it and I don't even want to hear about it. Put it on the bill.

[Henry Washington]

Right.

[D. Dave]

You know, that kind of thing. Whereas, like, I've talked to my property manager and he said to me, thank you for saying that because sometimes I get beat up for spending 50 bucks, you know. And so you need to be super clear with the property manager what you want your relationship to be like with the property manager and between the property manager and the tenants. And finding someone that shares that philosophy as you is going to be super important. It's going to really help have a, a better relationship. All right, so those are some things to think about, questions to ask, things to do while you're on a trip to look for long distance investing markets. But then let's talk about neighborhoods because I think this is the other major thing that you need to do on these trips is like build the team. Then you got to figure out what areas are aligned with your strategy. We got to take one more quick break. We'll be right back.

[Unknown]

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[D. Dave]

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[D. Dave]

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[Henry Washington]

So first and foremost, you shouldn't be showing up to a market cold without knowing what neighborhoods you want to go visit. Obviously, if you've done enough research, you should understand, hey, these are some neighborhoods that I think I would like to invest in based on the data. Right. And you want to make sure you highlight those.

[D. Dave]

Yeah.

[Henry Washington]

I would also ask each agent that I'm going to meet with about each of those neighborhoods and ask them to give me some other neighborhoods that I might not have on the list that they think are good and why. And then a lot of the times, too, guys, you're going to be doing this research. And especially in some of these markets, like, you hear about Chicago and it's so dangerous here and all these places, you may find neighborhoods where the numbers look fantastic, but you are worried about the crime or you're worried about the perception of the neighborhood. Like, if you think the numbers are good in a neighborhood, go there. Yeah, go see it for yourself, because nine times out of 10, that neighborhood's not as bad as you think it is. Like, don't get me wrong, there are bad neighborhoods in every big city in the country. But if the market dynamics seem good and you're just hearing rumors about crime, like rumors and facts and statistics are different things. Go get a feel for the neighborhood and the people and what you see happening and or not happening in that neighborhood. And I'd urge you, go in the evening, Go see what it's like at night when it's dark. If you feel unsafe at night in the dark, your tenants may too.

[D. Dave]

Yeah.

[Henry Washington]

And that may be different. But I think people put a lot of weight on crime in markets when it's not as bad nearly as people think it is.

[D. Dave]

I think you made a very good point. Like, you shouldn't go in cold because especially if you're going to a big city like Chicago, you can't go visit all that in, like, five days. So it's like, how do you pick four or five neighborhoods? And I think for me, I would probably look at cash flow potential. I would look at home prices and historic home price growth, and I would look at infrastructure and walkability. I think those things are hugely important, especially in city investing. Where's public transportation? How walkable? Where are the grocery stores? People pay to live near that stuff. They do. That's just how it works. And so finding neighborhoods that have that stuff is super important. And then I just want to go check it out, see if it's cool and, like, if the vibe matches the numbers.

[Henry Washington]

You also want to pay attention to your strategy. Is your strategy to find current neighborhoods that are desirable already? People want to live there, and you want to get your piece of real estate in that market and be comfortable? Or is your strategy to get in the path of progress so that you get some cash flow and some appreciation? If your strategy is, hey, I want to get into the path of progress and get there Early. Some of the things you should research before going to see some of these neighborhoods are going on the city council's website and seeing where new development is happening, where they're approving plans for commercial properties. That's all stuff you can typically find out on the city council's website or just doing a Google search about infrastructure that's coming. You can go and see if they're opening Lowe's, Home Depot, Menards, any of those big box stores on the outskirts of town anywhere. Because if they're opening one of those stores, it typically means that there's building that's happening or going to be happening and people need access to supplies in those areas. Are there sports teams coming? Can you do that kind of research? What major plans does that city have? Where are those things going? And then go and see those neighborhoods and maybe that's someplace you can buy before some of this stuff happens. So companies do all this research at a higher level than you're going to be able to do it. And so a lot of the times you can leverage the company's research. So if you know Chick Fil a is going to be opening a store in that neighborhood, they're doing it for a reason. Yeah, they don't think they're not going to have customers. So Chick Fil A's targets Home Depots, Lowe's. Another hack is go and buy one share of stock of those companies so that you can get the company stock package briefings and they'll email you those things. And in those things they tell you you can see wherever they're going to open stores.

[D. Dave]

The last thing I'll mention about going and looking at neighborhoods that I think is really overlooked is the housing stock. I don't know why people never talk about this, but like look at the quality of the homes, not just the ones that you are interested in buying, but just look at the overall housing stock. Like when I used to go around in Denver, like there was just these areas. You've been to Denver, there's like these beautiful old Victorian homes, right? Like that were maybe in the path of progress. They hadn't really been renovated, but they're these incredible homes, right? And you're like this is has to turn around, right? Where as opposed to like, is it like the super ugly 70 track homes everywhere? That's going to limit the appreciation. Like you need to sort of look at not just the property you're looking at, but is the whole area poised to start growing? So look at just the quality of the homes, but I Think the other thing is, like, I've not invested in markets that I like because they just don't have a lot of duplexes or triplexes. Like, it's all single family homes. And then I can't find the types of deals I want in those neighborhoods. And you can't always see that because you might look on the MLS and see, oh, there's not duplexes for sale, but you might actually go and see there's tons of duplexes. You just need to be patient. Or the opposite. Maybe there was two duplexes for sale in this neighborhood. And then when you go there, those are the only two duplexes. And so I think that's a really important part, is make sure that you're going to find the kinds of properties that you want to buy in that neighborhood.

[Henry Washington]

That's a great point. That's probably one of the best tips so far because, like, we have great market dynamics where I live. Yeah. So people say all the time, oh, I'd love to invest there, I'd love to buy multifamily there. We don't have a ton of it. Like, yeah, there's, there's plenty. There's some. But like, not compared to like where we're going in the Midwest where like there's just. There is abundance of it. We don't have a lot of it. And so when it hits the market, it's that it gets snapped up because compared to the total inventory, it is a much smaller percentage than a lot of other markets.

[D. Dave]

A lot of the Southeast, newer markets, they don't have, they don't build. We haven't built in this country. A lot of new multifamily. So a lot of older markets, older, more, you know, established cities tend to have more of this inventory, which one is good for acquisitions, but two keeps up renter demand in cities like Chicago. Right. People are used to living in multifamily. Like, tenants don't bat an eye at living in multifamily or in apartments. It's just how people live, live. If you've stuck a multi family in the middle of a suburb, you're probably not going to get the same level of demand. Right. And so you don't want to be the only duplex in all single families. Right. You want it to be in a community where living in a duplex is normal and there's going to be a lot of demand for those rentals. So that kind of thing, I find super hard to just look on a map and figure that out. It's something you kind of have to go drive around and see.

[Henry Washington]

Yeah, great point.

[D. Dave]

All right, well, we've talked a lot about this trip. Now I'm ready to get out there and go. But before we do, any last thoughts or tips?

[Henry Washington]

Henry, Other things I would think about just in general, if you are going to be seriously thinking or investing in an area, try to plan a trip when you can go to a city council meeting, where you can go to a chamber of commerce meeting. These types of meetings, people in the room are people who a want to improve and better their community. They're embedded within the community and they're in jobs that are probably going to be beneficial to you. Bank presidents, vice presidents, lenders, they're typically members of these chamber of commerce. And you going to these meetings gives you a chance to get warm intros via just being in the meeting to people who may be able to give you favorable lending to investing in those areas. They also may be able to introduce you to great real estate agent context in those areas. And it's also may pave the way for things to be easier for you if you're going to be doing value add renovations and you're going to be needing permits and things. Well, now you've got some personal introductions to people who can help remove some of the red tape for you. These meetings typically happen monthly or semi monthly. They're not very long and it's just a great way for you to be to embed yourself in the community. So try to plan a trip you when you can attend some of these meetings, try to do it when there's going to be local real estate investor meetups happening in the area. Luckily we get to leverage like the.

[D. Dave]

Ones we're going to.

[Henry Washington]

Yes, we get to leverage bigger pockets. So we made our own meetups while we're there. But try to go when you can attend local investor meetups because that's another great way to meet the real estate agents that might help you, the contractors, all the different contacts. So be as efficient as you can with your time not by just going and building your team, but by going and being able to attend some of these social meetups that are very, very important to you. Because again, take the opportunity to build relationships in person and then you can sustain those relationships over zoom meetings. But when people see you in person, they take you a lot more seriously than if you're just a person on a screen.

[D. Dave]

All right, great last piece of advice. I have one more. You made me think of one more this hot take and we're violating this idea on this trip. But go places not during like the best season. Yeah, like we're going to the Midwest in the summer. I would recommend going in the spring or in the fall when, you know, see it not in all of its glory. Right. Like I, I have gone to the Midwest in the dead of winter, driven around in snowstorms and still like to market, you know, like that to me is a test of whether you really like it or is it just a really nice day. I got duped on this. I went to college in Rochester, New York, because I went to visit in like May and I was like, this place rocks. It's so great. And then you realize it's just freezing cold nine months out of the year. Do the same thing for your markets, like go to Arizona in the summer and see what it's like. And I think it will tell you a lot more than if you just go on the best possible day.

[Henry Washington]

And for us, warm weather live in people who are going to invest or thinking about investing in cold weather places. Make sure you adjust your expenses for things you're not thinking about, like snow removal and icing, icing driveways and stairs and things that those, those costs typically fall on the landlords and you need to spend that money.

[D. Dave]

All right, well, I'm really looking forward to this trip. It's going to be a whole lot of fun. Hopefully anyone in the Chicago or Indianapolis can meet us on the trip. It's a free meetup. Again, go to biggerpockets.com roadshow RSVP there for free. Henry, I'm excited to see you in a couple days, man.

[Henry Washington]

Yeah, I'm pumped, man. Let's do this.

[D. Dave]

All right. And thank you all so much for listening to this episode. Hopefully you learned something about planning your own trip to see an out of state market. If you have any questions, you can always hit up me or henry either on biggerpockets.com or on Instagram. We'll see you all again soon for another episode of the BiggerPockets podcast in just a couple of days. Thank you all for listening to the Biggerpockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico, Content and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing, or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. the content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk, so use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. Investing you should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Biggerpockets, LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.