Fast-Tracking Financial Freedom (in Her 30s!) with JUST 5 Rentals

Summary

BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast: "Fast-Tracking Financial Freedom (in Her 30s!) with JUST 5 Rentals"

Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast, host Dave Meyer delves into the inspiring journey of Jessica Kruhl, an accomplished media professional who has successfully navigated the demanding world of real estate investing. Jessica's story is a testament to achieving financial freedom through strategic property investments, all while maintaining a full-time career.

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Guest Background

Jessica Kruhl serves as the Editor-in-Chief for two prominent publications: Allure, focusing on beauty, and Self, dedicated to fitness and wellness. Balancing high-profile roles in the media industry with real estate investments, Jessica embodies the modern investor who leverages side ventures to secure financial independence.

Notable Quote:

"I'm probably the only editor in chief who lives in like a basement." — [44:33]

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Journey into Real Estate

Jessica's foray into real estate was sparked by personal experiences and a desire for financial autonomy. Initially motivated by observing her ex-boyfriend's success in the field, she recognized the profound impact real estate could have on her financial future.

Notable Quote:

"My real estate portfolio is bigger than yours." — [03:33]

This realization propelled her into extensive research, leading to her first investment—a house hack that served both as her primary residence and a source of rental income.

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House Hacking Experience

In 2019, Jessica purchased her first property in Newark, New Jersey, utilizing a house hacking strategy. She invested in a duplex with a separately renovated garage space, allowing her to live in one unit while renting out the others. This approach not only minimized her living expenses but also provided immediate rental income.

Notable Quote:

"I don't pay rent." — [06:33]

Despite initial challenges, including unexpected maintenance issues like stolen HVAC units, Jessica's hands-on approach and resilience enabled her to stabilize the property within two years.

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Overcoming Challenges

Jessica's early experiences were marked by unforeseen setbacks, such as stolen HVAC units shortly after her purchase. These challenges served as crucial learning opportunities, reinforcing the importance of preparedness and proactive property management.

Notable Quote:

"You have to get through that, everything else is like a piece of cake." — [21:07]

Her ability to navigate these obstacles underscored the unpredictable nature of real estate investing and the necessity of maintaining a long-term perspective.

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Building the Portfolio

Following the stabilization of her first property, Jessica focused on saving and acquiring her second investment in 2023. This time, she opted for a fully renovated three-family home, avoiding extensive renovations to better align with her demanding career.

Notable Quote:

"I'm addicted to the money." — [39:28]

Jessica's strategic decision to invest in turnkey properties allowed her to expand her portfolio without overwhelming her schedule, demonstrating the importance of aligning investments with personal capabilities and life goals.

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Long-term Planning and Strategy

Jessica's overarching goal is to secure financial freedom by owning five rental properties by the age of 40. This objective is meticulously planned, focusing on properties that collectively generate sufficient income to cover her housing costs and provide additional monthly earnings.

Notable Quote:

"I want enough to have $5,000 a month." — [11:35]

Her approach emphasizes sustainability over rapid expansion, advocating for a balanced portfolio that aligns with her long-term financial aspirations and personal well-being.

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Advice for Aspiring Investors

Throughout the conversation, Jessica offers valuable insights for those looking to embark on their own real estate journeys:

1. Start Slow and Steady: Jessica advocates for a measured approach, allowing investors to learn and adapt without becoming overwhelmed.

   Notable Quote:

   "Slow and steady is so important." — [43:33]

2. Define Your Goals: Establish clear, attainable objectives to guide investment decisions and portfolio growth.

   Notable Quote:

   "Having that level of specificity is probably the best thing you can do as a real estate investor." — [09:34]

3. Embrace Learning: Each property presents unique challenges that refine an investor's skills and knowledge base.

   Notable Quote:

   "Every time you learn, you learn how to protect yourself." — [22:16]

4. Leverage Professional Support: Collaborating with knowledgeable real estate agents and property managers can streamline operations and enhance investment outcomes.

   Notable Quote:

   "Having someone who manages properties makes it so much easier." — [40:02]

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Conclusion

Jessica Kruhl's narrative exemplifies how strategic real estate investments can coexist with a demanding career, leading to substantial financial rewards and early retirement. Her methodical, goal-oriented approach serves as a blueprint for aspiring investors seeking to secure their financial futures without compromising their professional aspirations.

Closing Quote:

"I am just so happy that I did make the decision. I do think it's totally worth it no matter what I've been through." — [44:53]

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Additional Resources

For those interested in following Jessica's real estate journey, she maintains an engaging Instagram account titled This House Is Trying to Kill Me, showcasing her experiences and lessons learned in the field.

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By sharing her experiences, Jessica underscores the viability of attaining financial freedom through real estate investing, even amidst the demands of a high-powered career. Her story is not only inspirational but also provides practical strategies for building a sustainable and profitable real estate portfolio.

Transcript

[Dave Meyer]

Buy five properties and you can live for free in retirement. This investor set that exact goal a few years ago and is well on her way to achieving financial freedom and.

[Aaron]

The option to retire early from a.

[Dave Meyer]

Demanding career with only five units in her current portfolio.

[Aaron]

And the cool thing is that she's.

[Dave Meyer]

Not spending tons of cash. She's not employing some time consuming marketing strategies. She's doing strategies that you can start doing right now. What's up, everyone?

[Aaron]

I'm Dave Moss Meyer, head of real.

[Dave Meyer]

Estate investing at BiggerPockets. I myself have been buying rental properties for 15 years and this podcast is.

[Aaron]

Here to teach you how to achieve.

[Dave Meyer]

Financial freedom through real estate investing. Today we have a great investor story for you with someone named Jessica Kruel. She lives and invests in Newark, New Jersey. And Jessica, on top of being a real estate investor, has a very impressive, interesting career in the media industry. But. But that demanding full time career that she has has motivated her to also find a path to financial freedom. So in between fashion events and board meetings, she's dealing with tenants and toilets. She's looking for deals just like the rest of us. Jessica bought her first property when she was making well under 100 grand. And even today, she only has a modest goal of buying five properties, trying to get to about 10 units by age 40 so she can cover her housing costs in early retirement. Today, she has five of those units already locked up and she already has seemingly hundreds of stories about overcoming property management issues and inching closer to her goals one day at a time. Because as we all know, that's what it takes. This is super fun conversation and it really just shows how almost everyone can benefit from real estate investing no matter where you're coming from. Let's get into it. Jessica, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. Thank you for being here.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Thanks so much for having me. As I say, longtime listener, first time caller.

[Dave Meyer]

It is cool that you are a longtime listener because you're in the media industry. Maybe we'll start there. You have a pretty cool job. Tell us what you do full time.

[Jessica Kruhl]

So I am the editor in chief of Allure and Self publications, which are two different magazines that cover beauty for Allure and fitness and wellness for Self.

[Dave Meyer]

So why are you listening to Bigger Pockets then?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Well, of course, because I'm into real estate and you know, everybody has to have a side hustle. So I started listening in about 2018, 2019, right before I bought my first property, because I was trying to learn everything I could about real estate before I took that Leap and bought my first investment property.

[Dave Meyer]

Very cool. So in 2018, were you. You bought an investment property or primary residence is the first thing you bought.

[Jessica Kruhl]

So I bought a primary residence in 2019. I started doing my research in 2018, but I house hacked. So it was both. Is the answer like c all of the above. I lived there and also had tenants.

[Dave Meyer]

And why did you start thinking about investing instead of just buying a primary residence? Was there someone or something that got you hooked onto the idea that real estate in your primary residence obviously can improve your own quality of life? It could also be the sort of side hustle that you were looking for.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, it was actually an ex boyfriend. And I hope he's listening.

[Dave Meyer]

We'll send it to him after this.

[Jessica Kruhl]

My real estate portfolio is bigger than yours. So I was with a partner and while we were together, he bought his first property. It was an investment property. It was a three family. And, you know, watching him do it all, I began to understand the power of real estate and what real estate investing could do to for your future. And, you know, all I need to do, I'm a very smart person. All I need is one good example. And I'm like, okay, I think I can do that as well. So when we. So when we broke up, from that moment on, I was like, okay, I'm going to buy property. And then that's when I started doing my research and, you know, learning about things like house hacking and, you know, multifamily real estate. And that is what I had my eyes on. You know, I literally was like, I'm going to get a property where I could have tenants and live there as well. And so, you know, sometimes I call it my revenge rental. Because, you know, it was giving, anything you can do, I can do better.

[Dave Meyer]

It's funny because I actually got started somewhat similarly. It wasn't with a partner. It was with a friend of mine. I was, I was, I moved to Colorado and I would go skiing with this guy. Great skier, good friend, not the brightest bulb. And he was making so much money in real estate. And I was like, if this dude could do it, I could definitely do it. And it actually worked out.

[Jessica Kruhl]

And that's the same thing. And I remember when he, the first week he brought his property, like a big disaster happened. And I was like, oh my gosh, this can be done better. But then of course, I bought my first property and a big disaster happened the first week too. And I was like, okay, so this is just real estate.

[Dave Meyer]

This is just how it happens.

[Jessica Kruhl]

This is how it goes.

[Dave Meyer]

I think there's something you mentioned that is super important here which is that you who have a impressive and I assume time consuming full time career. Yes. You still chose to house hack, which I think a lot of people who hear this concept, they understand the financial benefits but then think I don't want to live with tenants or I don't have time to manage a property on top of what I'm doing full time. So how did you make the time and mental energy to go after a house hack even when you have this pretty all consuming full time career?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Look, I'm a long term plan person. I have a five year plan, I have a ten year plan. I live in New Jersey, I'm in the New York City area. So everything here is very expensive. And for me it was a matter of looking at the math. I could keep having my one bedroom apartment in New Jersey and pay $2,100 a month or I could own a whole house and eventually pay zero dollars and make money. And I don't care how you split that, it's worth any amount of time. I was like, I will work it out, pay no rent. And yeah, by the way, I go around telling people, oh, I don't pay rent. Talk to me. Nice. I don't, I don't pay rent.

[Dave Meyer]

That's amazing.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, I think, you know, it is hard. It's, it has been a tough time. But actually I think living in my prop. My first property was it made all the difference. And I personally take a very slow approach to real estate. So you know, when I bought the house, it had tenants in it. So from day one I was making rental income. And then I renovated the other apartment. Then I got tenants in that apartment. Then the tenant that was there when I bought the house, they moved out. I renovated that apartment. That took me like two years. Yeah, it was like maybe two years before I was fully running at the level that it could do income wise. So I think if I would have tried to do everything quickly, it would have overwhelmed me. But I just take a slow approach, you know, because I do have a great job. I'm able to pay the mortgage. You know, if I have to pay the mortgage, I rather pay the mortgage and take my time to do things right. Get the right tenants in there. Especially since we all live together.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

And they are all on top of me. So I think those are things that I just felt were really important. So slow and steady. And then, you know, take a break. Like I'm not touching the house. For two weeks and then come back.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah, I absolutely love the slow and steady approach. And I'm curious if you're able to do that because I think mentally it makes sense. A lot of people, but then you get in the property and you want to go, go, go. Perhaps you listen to the show and you hear people who buy 10 units or 50 units, and it's very appealing to do those things as well. But you mentioned earlier you're a long term plan person. So, like, do you have a long term plan for your real estate? And so did you have that even when you first began buying your first property?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, when I bought my first property, I think the goal was, let's see how this goes. Let's just see if I can do it, you know, because I'm also, I'm a single woman. I'm by myself, so working with contractors, working with, you know, tenants. I just wanted to feel it out first and see how it went and see if I was gonna make money. Right. Because also listening to this podcast, you know, sometimes it doesn't work out. And so I thought I would just see what would happen. And, you know, living in this New Jersey, New York area, it was the only way I could buy a house. To have other people's rent to help pay the mortgage was really the only way I could, like, afford. And so after I bought the first one and I was in it for a couple years, I was like, I can do this again.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

And that is the thing that gets you. Okay, first of all, I called my houses my children because it's just like having kids. It's like, you have that first sweet kid and you're like, oh, my God, I want five kids. And then you have that second kid and you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't want any more kids. So I think once I had the first one and I was like, it worked. My point was proven. The math was mathing.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

That's when I was like, you know what? I do have a plan. I want more of these. Here's how I'm going to build my portfolio. My goal is to have 10 doors, five properties by 40, which is in five years, so.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah.

[Dave Meyer]

Having that level of specificity is probably the best thing you can do as a real estate investor. And very, very few people do it. I've come up with them and then I deviate from my own plan. So I'm not perfect on this either. But just having that thing to aim for is so. Because 10 units, five properties. That is feasible, right? Like, that feels doable even with the other demands on your time and mind share and all that. And I think so many times people listen to this podcast and you just think, I got to keep growing. And it seems like this ever building exponential thing where you always have to.

[Aaron]

Be in growth mode and figuring out.

[Dave Meyer]

New ways to find deals and finance stuff, and maybe you don't like, if you want to grow to be huge and to be a tycoon, you do need to do that. But if you have a more modest, normal goal, I would say maybe you don't need to do that, right?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Well, even if I only have two properties, I have more real estate than the average person, right? So I think for me, I have backtracked towards how much income do I need, right? Because at the end of the day, I know these properties are part of my retirement plan. So it wasn't like I was like, oh, I want to own $5 million in a real estate portfolio. No, it was more like I want to get to a point where I have $5,000 coming from these properties. So I build based on that. I build saying, this is the way I'm going to get to 5,000. Like, everything is taken care of. Electricity, rent, mortgage, insurance, everything. And then I will have $5,000 left to just take home to me. And I think that is how I've built my plan. It's not about how much property can I have. It's about I just. I just want enough. Enough to have $5,000 a month. And for me, that math is five properties, maybe less, depending on if I, you know, what I do. And when I get that, I might stop and I'll be like, actually, I'm good. You know, best that, you know, I.

[Dave Meyer]

Absolutely love that you are speaking my language. I think that knowing what is enough is so important. And honestly, it's not that hard. Like, you just came up with a number, right? $5,000. I imagine you spent some time thinking about what number that should be. But yeah, that's a lot easier than just thinking, oh, I need 89 units.

[Ad Guy]

Why?

[Dave Meyer]

You could have 89 terrible units. You could have 10amazing units and get the same thing. And one's a heck of a lot easier. So it's just. It's so much better to build your portfolio working backwards from your eventual goal. And so, Jessica, I'm very. I'm inspired by this. I think it's so important for everyone to be thinking about these kind of things.

[Aaron]

All right, everyone, we do need to.

[Dave Meyer]

Take a quick break, but we'll have more with investor Jessica Kruhl right after this. They say real estate investing is passive, but if you've spent a Sunday night buried in spreadsheets, you probably know better. We hear it from investors all the.

[Aaron]

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[Dave Meyer]

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[Dave Meyer]

Let's get back into this week's investor conversation with Jessica Krul. So you did a house hack at first? Like what were the details? It was in New Jersey I assume, but tell us a little bit more about the deal.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, so after getting rejected many, many a time for my offers, I found a duplex, but it has an above ground kind of garage level situation that was already redone as kind of like a second space or a third space rather. So I could live in the bottom of the property and still have two people with their own separate apartments. But it's a separate entrance and all of that so three kitchens. The top two apartments are three bedroom, two bath. And then mine is a one one.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, nice.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Bought it in 2019 for 425. I put 5% down, which is a little bit more than I had to because I could use first time home buyer benefits. But I decided to go ahead and put 5% down because I had the cash. And at that time it did need renovation. So I redid kitchens and floors. You know, it was just cosmetic stuff that I spent way too much money on. I like nice things. And, you know, that was before I was like, in the mindset of this is for tenants, it doesn't have to be nice, but like, you know, redid quartz countertops, re sanded the floors, put down new vinyl flooring where needed, you know, that kind of thing. And it had a tenant when I bought it. So a tenant was there who was on government assistance. So, you know, that was a nice steady check. That's where I learned about. I spent a lot of time at the government office learning about that. And so that was my first property. But pretty soon after I bought it, I had my first disaster.

[Dave Meyer]

You have to cut your teeth somehow.

[Aaron]

It happens to everyone.

[Dave Meyer]

So how soon after?

[Jessica Kruhl]

It was so quick.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, really?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah. But in mid July, by the end of the July, I had my first disaster. Like two weeks.

[Dave Meyer]

What was it?

[Jessica Kruhl]

So I got an architect to like look at the house and just tell me what I needed in order to upgrade it to an official three family. And so we're doing the tour, he's like, I take him to the backyard. And then I looked down and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm going to stop you. There used to be two H VAC units right there that are no longer there.

[Dave Meyer]

What, like a condenser for air conditioners?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, like two huge H vac condensers were like gone. Copper wire gone. So luckily, you know, you buy a house, you have insurance, and insurance definitely covers H VAC units getting stolen.

[Dave Meyer]

So I'm sorry you had to learn that, but that's good.

[Jessica Kruhl]

I know, but you know, so we got those replaced and all of that. But it was my first lesson. Day one. When you move in, first thing you do is get security cameras all around the place. So it's just little things that I learned along the way. But, you know, living, you learn in.

[Dave Meyer]

My experience, you know how that people say, like celebrities die in three. I feel like just like real estate failures happen in three. It's just every time it's like you get that the H vac stall, and you're like, what's next? There's going to be something and then you'll be like, six months, will be chill, you'll be fine. And you're just waiting for the shoe to drop. You get hit three times, something like that. It just always comes in waves.

[Jessica Kruhl]

I believe that so keenly. Like, my second house was even more an adventure, let me tell you. And I was like, on eggshells for months, being like, it's coming.

[Dave Meyer]

Something happened, right?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Because these two terrible things have happened. One more and then I'll be done.

[Dave Meyer]

It sounds awful. And it is what it happens. It's not fun. But also, every time it happens, you get a little bit better at dealing with it. Yeah, it always hurts financially that you know that it stinks. But I think the first time, honestly, emotionally, it's the hardest because you're like, oh, my God, I just put so much money into this big important investment now I need to put more money into it, and things aren't going well, and it can sort of feel like things are getting out of control.

[Aaron]

In time, you really do learn to.

[Dave Meyer]

Just be like, okay, I can figure this out. I've done this before. And it stinks. And it's not fun. But you start to see it just as part of doing business. And it's not this catastrophe that is going to upend your entire investment or your entire portfolio or your strategy or your retirement. It's just part of being a real estate investor. Just like every business, unfortunately, has its ups and downs, the part of owning rental properties, the downs are pretty far down and they're frustrating, but it also is in service of this much, much bigger thing.

[Jessica Kruhl]

You know, I think also, as you said, everything honestly comes back to that first time. You know, every time I think about that feeling of being in that yard and seeing those H VAC units missing, oh, my God, I'm like, if I can get through that, everything else is like a piece of cake, you know, like, because I was dumb and I truly tell people, like, you know, what made you get into real estate? It's like, you have to be naive in order to buy your first property. Like there's no other way you would do it, you know, like, if you knew all the trouble it could cause, you would be like, so wait, I'm gonna buy this thing for hundreds of thousand dollars and then I'm have to spend more money every few months, and then people are gonna wreck it and then what? Why would I buy it?

[Dave Meyer]

But aren't you happy you did it.

[Jessica Kruhl]

But I'm so happy I did, right? And you know, I laugh. I laugh and cry all the way to the bank.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There it is. Definitely worth it. But you're gonna take some lumps along the way, unfortunately. But I think it. It just also makes you a better investor because you also learn when you're going to look at a property, you're like, okay, that fridge is looking a little old.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah.

[Dave Meyer]

Count three grand that I'm going to need to put in. Or I don't see the security system, I don't see the jail around my Ace Rack units. Now I need to account for that so that it's not a surprise in the future. There's still going to be surprises, don't get me wrong. But you can reduce the amount of surprises that come up because every time you learn, you learn how to protect yourself, how to. To find great tenants, to find great contractors. And it does really get sort of easier each subsequential property that you go on to go buy.

[Jessica Kruhl]

And I know what to ask, you know, I think the first property just don't know what you don't know. And then once you learn things now, you go into a house and you know what questions to ask, you know, like, how old's the roof? You know, like how old's the H Vac, you know, to ask those things and it makes you a better, like you said, a better investor overall.

[Dave Meyer]

You know, if you do this for a year, two years, three years, you're going to learn a lot. Like, you're going to be in a very good position. If you start now, two, three years from now, you're going to know a heck of a lot more than you do about rental property investing. And it takes a lot of the mystery out of it. Before we take a break, everyone, just a heads up that BiggerPockets is hosting a really cool, fun new deal analysis challenge this week only from June 16 to June 23. Here's the deal. If you analyze seven properties using BiggerPockets.

[Aaron]

Calculators during that time, you can be.

[Dave Meyer]

Entered into a random drawing to win a Biggerpockets Pro membership, a free general admission ticket to BPCON 2025 in Las Vegas and a $100 gift card to the BiggerPockets bookstore. Head to BiggerPockets.com seven deals for all the info on how to enter. All right, we gotta take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[Aaron]

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[Dave Meyer]

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[Dave Meyer]

Let's jump back in with Jessica. So let's talk about how you sort of moved on and evolved as an investor. You did this house hack. You said it took you maybe like two years to fully stabilize. You felt like it was in the place you wanted it to be. Then what did you do from there?

[Jessica Kruhl]

After two years, I just started building my cash up, you know, because it was stable and I was finally making money. I was fully booked with tenants and so I Was finally able to start to save for my next property. So that's what I did. Because also, knowing the way that I do things, I was going to have to put a lot more down on the second property.

[Dave Meyer]

Okay.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Because I was going to have to put 20% down. So I just saved my money, had my tenants, Things got calm. So, you know, the pandemic happened. And then finally, when we got out of the pandemic, I bought my second property in 2023.

[Dave Meyer]

Same location.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah. Five minutes from the other house, really. Right down the street is a three family. And so I bought that house, and I said to myself, I don't want to do reno. That was my one thing. I said, it's like, I'm not doing rental this time. Because by that time, I was editor in chief, and I knew what I had time for and what I didn't have time for. And I did not have time to be fluent with contractors. So I found this amazing property that had been fully renovated. It's an old house, 1920s, but it's been fully gutted, and the H vacs came in jail. So I was like, wonderful. Everything is brand new, right? Everything is new. I almost didn't buy the house or I put my offer in and I tried to get out of this house. I was like, oh, no, I don't want this house anymore. Because we went on the inspection, and as you go on inspection, you go top to bottom, and everything's looking great. My inspector's like, oh, this is a nice house. This rental is well done. We get down to the basement, and we were standing in an inch of water.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, no.

[Jessica Kruhl]

That's when I was telling my real estate agent. I was like, I don't want this house anymore. Get me out of this deal.

[Dave Meyer]

What was it?

[Jessica Kruhl]

So the drain that went to the sewer was made of terracotta pipe, and it had gotten cracked, and so dirt and roots were getting into the line, which was backing everything up. So we had to do a scope and we had to do all of that. They had to fix that. Because I was like, that's not my issue. And then I moved into the house. So that was my first adventure with property number two.

[Dave Meyer]

So you said something about time, which I think is so important and overlooked here. You said you were looking for something that wasn't going to be renovated, which I personally have done a lot over the course of my career Because I work full time, I'm pretty busy, and I choose to find properties that just work with my lifestyle. Was that a hard decision. And I think for our audience, like, did you have to give up some of the financial benefit? Like, do you feel like you had to take something that maybe wasn't going to earn you as much because it fit into your lifestyle?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yes, for sure. The numbers aren't as good as on my first property. Sweat equity is something that I don't have. And I look at these things as long term investments. Right. So the math works. Like for me it's more about does it cover itself? Right. Like as long as I don't have to pay mortgage, then I'm good. Also, you have to realize that now I have two properties, so they work together.

[Dave Meyer]

Yep.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Like all these doors together pay for everything and I make money still. So I do think that I looked at them more together as a grouping than like this one property doesn't work or does work. It's tight. It works. But it's tight. But I really couldn't do that. Reno to force equity. And also it was supposed to be turnkey. It was not. That's another thing. Like turnkey is not a thing. But I'm glad that I did because, you know, I'm not a big fan of mortgage lenders saying, you know, marry the house, date the rate. You know, I don't really love that.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, I.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Because you cannot predict the rates. But what I say to myself is this property is going to increase in value over a long period of time. Rents are going to increase over a long period of time. And maybe not 100%, but maybe I'll be able to refinance. Right. So all those factors, if I'm close enough on the math will be like, you know what, we're close enough. This is a 30 year investment. Over 30 years I'm going to get my money's worth, you know, So I think of it that way instead of being like, oh, I'm not going to make a thousand dollars off this one house a month. Like, I'm not about that kind of math.

[Dave Meyer]

First and foremost. I love the idea of thinking about it holistically as a whole portfolio.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah.

[Dave Meyer]

And you can only do that because you have your long term plan.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Right.

[Dave Meyer]

If you're just buying one off deals and evaluating them individually, which you need to do, like you need to buy good deals. Don't get me wrong, you cannot just add things to your portfolio just for the sake of it.

[Aaron]

But if you have this long term.

[Dave Meyer]

Plan for your portfolio, then your criteria for what a good deal is might shift. It no longer needs to be, how do I maximize Every single dollar today for Jessica, it sounds like, you know, within five years. So going back, this was two years ago. So you were thinking, at that point, within seven years, I need to be producing $5,000 a month.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Right.

[Dave Meyer]

And it sounds like even though you might not be maximizing every dollar today, that's in service of that long term goal, number one. And number two, perhaps even more importantly, it's what you have time for while still working your job, which is the other sort of totally essential part of your plan for the next seven years. Right. Like, you still need that job. And so you can't say, I'm going to do a renovation that's going to take time away from my job when I still plan to work for the next seven years. And so it's just a perfect example of why having these goals allows you to work backwards in a much more efficient way. And honestly, at least for me, I've found it to take a lot of pressure off.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah.

[Dave Meyer]

To not think like, oh my God, is this deal going to be amazing next year? I don't know, is it going to be amazing 10 years from now? Pretty sure it will be.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah.

[Dave Meyer]

You know, like, that part is pretty easy to predict. So I just want to commend you for having, I think, a very mature look at how to build a real estate portfolio. Because you're constantly bombarded with like, Buy More. Buy More has to hit these rules and those rules don't work for everyone. And instead you found a way and found deals that work for you and your own personal goals.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Right. And it also, I think, you know, when we talk about some of the things that happen that cost a lot of money, like if I have something happens and I'm like dropping $10,000, I say to myself, this is what I have a job for. Right. I have a job for this exact reason. And two, it's $10,000 now, but I'm gonna have this house for 30 years. $10,000 on something I don't pay the mortgage for on a monthly basis. My tenants do. So it's like in the grand scheme of things, that's not a bad investment.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah, I, I'm actually thinking about this. So I have this property I've owned for 10ish years now. It's done great. It's great property. I'm hearing from my property manager, I probably have to re plumb the whole house. It's like a 5,000 square foot triplex. So this is, this is probably going to cost me 30, 40 grand. And if you look at it. On paper, I'm not making money this year. Maybe it's going to eat into next year. But in a good year, in a normal year, this thing's making me 40 or 50 grand easy. And this is my retirement. I could hold on to this thing. It could probably single handedly pay for my retirement if I just hold on to it for another 10 years. And so you got to do it. Does am I going to have a good cash and cash return this year? Nope. Is it going to stink? Yes. But it's just sort of having that long term view and knowing what role this property plays in my portfolio. I don't know if you know Chad Carson, he wrote some books for bigger pockets. He's on the show a lot. But he was, he was on the other day and he was saying like he has a job description for every property in his portfolio and I love that idea. So I'm like, this is my retirement and it's. Its job is to be there when I want to retire 10 or 15 years from now. And so I'm going to invest in this plumbing that's going to make it great for the next 30 or 40 years. And similar to you, it's like this triplex has its own job and it's like be there to put off 1500 bucks a month in seven years. Its job is not to be perfectly optimized for the year that I buy it.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Exactly. And I think with that long term view, it just makes it all so much more rewarding. Because I think about this is I'm playing the long game, I'm not playing the short game. And also that's what taxes are for. Okay. It's like write it off. It's going to be a write off.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

That was another reason why I bought the house is because it was around 2023 when my taxes started to look a little different because you know, you can carry over and all that stuff. And when I got my tax bill in 2022, I was like, wait a minute, it's time for me to buy another house because I don't like paying Uncle Sam money.

[Dave Meyer]

That's the part that gets a little addicting when you're like, okay, I have this plan to buy five, but what if I keep doing it and I never pay taxes?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Oh my goodness, that would be wonderful.

[Dave Meyer]

So where are you at now? So you bought your duplex and you bought a three unit in 2023. What's happened since then?

[Jessica Kruhl]

So I am actively looking for my third property. So kind of like you said about retirement, you know, the way that my houses are planned, it's like four and a possible really. But I want to buy a house in Savannah, Georgia. I am from Georgia originally. I love Georgia. And so the house I'm looking for in Savannah is like my retirement home. Who knows when I'll actually get down there and live in it, but it'll be a rental until I move into it. So it's our first kind of like single family. But the goal is to buy something that has a carriage house or the possibility of a carriage house so that I could live in the main house eventually myself and then have a student or a nurse or someone live in the carriage house. So it would still make income. So that would be door seven and eight. So that's what I'm looking for now. But it's a little bit different. It's a little bit harder actually to buy because now I'm looking at something like, would I want to live here?

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

You know, when you're buying a rental property, you're like, does this work for tenants? Fine. You know, is this Ikea kitchen? Who cares? You know, like. But I think part of being a real estate investor is to see the potential in anything and to know the math around that potential. Right. You have to be able to say, okay, this is a garage right now, but it's got electricity and it's got hot water, which means it could be a carriage house.

[Dave Meyer]

Right, exactly.

[Jessica Kruhl]

So, you know, you look at things a little bit different. So that's what I'm looking for currently. And I'm really excited because a single family in Georgia sounds so much easier than these multi families in New Jersey. We'll see what I find. Another option is to find a place that has a short term rental license so that I could dip my toe into Airbnb, but I would definitely have a management company.

[Dave Meyer]

Yeah.

[Jessica Kruhl]

I think that's been the biggest debate lately is like, okay, the more properties you get, the more doors you get, the more tenants you get. Do I need a management company? And so that's something I've been thinking a lot about lately. But I just, I'm addicted to the money.

[Dave Meyer]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. It is like the stuff that you're close by to. It is kind of easy. But if you're buying in Savannah, you're going to need a property management company either way. Right. If you do long term or short term. Yeah, I guess if you do a single family and it's a long term tenant, you make, you can maybe make it work?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah, long term family with kids. I'll be like, look, handle your own stuff. Pretend I'm not here. Y' all live here.

[Dave Meyer]

Do you know people in the area? Like if something, if you really need.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Someone to get there? Yeah, okay, Yeah, I know people in the area.

[Dave Meyer]

Okay.

[Jessica Kruhl]

But you know, I also think something people don't think about is the real estate agents. So I recently signed on a new real estate agent to help me find a place in Savannah. And my real estate agent here in New Jersey and my one in Savannah are both investors themselves. And so it's really important. You know, right now she manages properties. So when we both go into a property, we're both looking at it like investors. And I think that makes all the difference. You know, having someone who does this, who manages property, who manages tenants, who has their own rental properties makes it so much easier. So usually it's my real estate agent that I call when I'm like, hey, so about H vac units getting stolen, what about you?

[Dave Meyer]

Did they know?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Were they like, yes, she was like, all your insurance. And also here's a guy who can put them in jail. You know, like, okay, nice. She definitely helps me out.

[Dave Meyer]

Well, I, I want to mention what something you said about like buying for your own retirement. I think this is one of the coolest things you could do as a real estate investor. I had never really considered it myself. I, I bought a short term rental that I use for my own personal enjoyment. So like, that's kind of like this. But I'm actually, I closed today on my new primary residence. I'm very excited about it. But in the last few months I've been living in a midterm rental and I've gotten to know our landlords. They're very nice people and that's what they did. They're like a few years away from retirement and so they bought this really cool place. They furnished it the way they want to furnish it and now they midterm rental it. And I mean, I think we're good tenants. We're taking good care of the place and they look for people who are going to take care of the place. But you could see just when I met them, like how excited they were and how much pride they had in this place and it was just motivating for them, you know, motivating for them, I'm sure in their day to day jobs to, you know, do what they need to do and get to that retirement. But to be good landlords and to go through some of the ups and downs that we've been talking about in this episode, you know, you are willing to deal with something getting broken or needing to make some upgrades because that's your retirement. That's kind of your dream. And I'm probably a little bit too, too far away from retiring to do it now. But I think for people who are getting close, this is a super cool way to make a strong investment and to really set yourself up for the life that you're hoping to achieve. Achieve through real estate in the first place. So that's super cool.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yeah. And I think it's also. We play a numbers game, right? I see the potential in Savannah as a place, and I fell in love with it. I'm from the state and I just felt really strongly that I need to buy before the market gets too saturated with people moving down there. And so who knows when I'll actually move into it. Until then, it'll be a rental property. And I think my original dream was that I would live there six months, live in a vacation location abroad. Like, my next number four is supposed to be a house abroad that is definitely supposed to be short term rental. So we'll see what happens and we'll see what I find that I fall in love with. But I definitely wanted to have a place because then I know exactly how much money I need. If I know what my mortgage is at that last house, I know exactly how much money I need these properties to make.

[Dave Meyer]

That's so, you know. Yeah. If you have fixed debt on it, it's like there's no mystery about it. You're not wondering what this retirement might look like, you know. Exactly. And you've probably paid off some of that mortgage too, by the time you're moving in. So that's even better.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Exactly.

[Dave Meyer]

Well, this has been so much fun. Jessica, thank you so much for joining us here today. Do you have any last advice for our audience as they're working their way towards financial freedom through real estate?

[Jessica Kruhl]

Like we said, slow and steady is so important. And I also think that, you know, real estate doesn't have to be 50 doors. It could be two, you know, it could be five. And I see these properties as something that allows me to do my day job a little bit more freely. Right. It allows me to have the creative freedom to be a risk taker at work because I know that I have this safety net of homes that I can lean back on. And that can mean, you know, the me not paying rent or mortgage that could be, oh, you know, I need money, I can sell one and they've appreciated over time. So I just think looking at real estate as not only a retirement plan, but also a freedom gateway for your own day to day life, I think is really important because I just move differently in my job as editor in chief, knowing that I come home to these properties and I'm able to put up with the temporary pain of, you know, all that happens. But also I always say I'm probably the only editor in chief who lives in like a basement.

[Dave Meyer]

Say it proudly known to man.

[Jessica Kruhl]

Yes, I'm like, but I do that because it allows me to, you know, buy more properties and to have the future that I want. And so I am just so happy that I did make the decision. I do think it's totally worth it no matter what I've been through. And I hope more people, more women, more women of color, more single women get into it.

[Dave Meyer]

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights and your experience with us, Jessica. It's been a lot of fun having you here today. If you want to learn more about Jessica's journey, you also have an awesome Instagram account called this House Is Trying to Kill Me, which I love the name. So if you want to learn more from Jessica, you could definitely go check that out. Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. We'll see you next time.

[Aaron]

Thank you all for listening to the.

[Dave Meyer]

BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new.

[Aaron]

Episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of.

[Dave Meyer]

The show, Dave Meyer.

[Aaron]

The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico, Content and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com.

[Narrator]

The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk, so use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose, and remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets, LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect and consequential or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.