BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast

Episode: "He Was Right in 2000, 2008, and 2020: Now He’s Saying to Buy"

Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Dave Meyer
Guest: Brian Burke, investor and BiggerPockets author

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Dave Meyer welcomes back seasoned real estate investor and author Brian Burke to discuss strategies for achieving financial freedom through real estate—despite today’s stagnant housing market. Burke, renowned for accurately reading market cycles in past downturns (2000, 2008, 2020), now believes it's an opportune time to buy—if approached with the right mindset and tactics. The discussion spans residential and multifamily investing, including deal sourcing, financing, and playing the “long game” for retirement and wealth-building.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current State of the Housing Market

• Market at a Standstill:
  • Home prices and mortgage rates are flat; buyer and seller activity is unusually low, creating a stalemate ([00:00]-[04:50]).
  • “There’s a bit of a standoff between people who own homes with, you know, 2.75% mortgages who refuse to move because they’re locked in, and buyers who are trying to figure out how they’re going to be able to buy with, you know, 5%, 5.5% mortgage rates…” — Brian Burke [02:51]
• Historical Parallels:
  • Burke compares today’s flat market to the mid-1990s, describing multi-year stretches where “real estate just did absolutely nothing,” ending with substantial appreciation for those who bought and held ([05:31])

2. Opportunity in a "Flat" Market

• Less Competition, More Possibilities:
  • With less investor “herd mentality,” patient buyers have the chance to source distressed or value-add deals ([01:08], [06:50]).
  • “This might be a really good time…to start making some moves in accumulating a portfolio without…fiercely bidding against everybody under the sun.” — Brian Burke [02:51]
• Mindset for Today:
  • “Investing is easy but results are hard” in this season; effort must shift from acquisition to value creation post-purchase ([08:57])

3. Tactical Advice for Investors

• “Old School” Approaches Work:
  • Seek out properties with problems you can solve—remodels, deferred maintenance, etc. ([06:50])
  • Leverage broker relationships; look for motivated sellers or tired landlords going through transitions ([26:26])
• Build Wealth Slowly:
  • “Real estate is not a get rich quick strategy. It is a get rich slow strategy.” — Brian Burke [12:12]
  • Accumulate assets during flat times—the payoff comes from holding long-term and being positioned for market “pops” ([14:08])

4. Navigating Today’s Multifamily Market

• Small Multifamily = Best Value:
  • Small multifamily (5–40 units), particularly C-class/workforce housing, offers attractive pricing due to seller fatigue and less competition ([19:46], [24:39])
  • Mom-and-pop properties are often “needles in haystacks,” but can be acquired with creative financing.
• Larger Multifamily Requires Caution:
  • Syndicators and institutional investors face tougher business models due to short hold expectations and uncertain recovery timelines. Not the best time for these business plans ([22:41])
  • “I don’t see a market recovery of meaningful nature in the next three years, making those business plans just untenable at this point and just a little bit early.” — Brian Burke [23:58]

5. Creative Financing & Debt Considerations

• Fixed Rate Loans Are Possible:
  • Even on small multis, fixed-rate, fully amortizing loans are available—especially via local community banks ([34:49], [35:31]).
  • Be open to seller financing, especially when starting out or when traditional loan terms are too onerous ([26:26], [39:15])
  • Willingness to personally guarantee loans and accept higher initial rates can yield greater long-term security ([37:04])
• Examples from Brian’s Portfolio:
  • Purchased an 11-unit in Buffalo for $300K with seller financing; held over 19 years, now throws off $11K/month after payoff ([27:59])
  • Acquired a 16-unit with creative down payments, ultimately leveraged into an oceanfront Maui condo via 1031 exchange ([28:06])

6. Mindset and Patient Wealth-Building

• Accumulate During “Boring” Periods:
  • “You kind of want the market to stay flat for a while… the longer it stays like that, the more of a portfolio you can accumulate and position yourself for when the market does make a move…” — Brian Burke [10:49]
  • Be patient and walk away from marginal deals; focus on building a strong base then profit during upswings ([09:51])
• Discouragement is the Enemy:
  • “Don’t get discouraged… even though you don’t get the instantaneous gratification… this is kind of the best time to actually collect assets.” — Brian Burke [41:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Investing was hard, but results were easy. And now it’s the other way around where investing is easy but results are hard.”
  — Brian Burke [08:57]

• “If you bought [during the 1990s flat market], you look really smart… This is just another one of those periods.”
  — Brian Burke [05:31]

• “Real estate investing… is a retirement strategy more than anything else.”
  — Brian Burke [12:12]

• “Works a lot better if you’ve already accumulated the assets before the pop. Because what a lot of people do is they think the pop is the time to buy… and that’s what kind of creates the pop.”
  — Brian Burke [14:08]

• “Small multifamily as a retirement plan… is exhibit A of what that looks like.”
  — Brian Burke, referencing his Buffalo, NY 11-unit property [28:06]

Important Timestamps

• [00:00–02:41] — Opening discussion: state of the stale, stalled-out market; guest intro
• [02:51–05:31] — Market dynamics, seller/buyer standoff, historical context
• [06:50–09:51] — Where to find deals & old-school investing approaches
• [12:12–14:08] — The get-rich-slow mindset and importance of accumulating assets now
• [19:28–24:39] — Multifamily market: differences between small & large multifamily, what’s attractive now
• [26:26–29:07] — Creative deal structuring, real-world examples of wealth-building
• [34:49–37:04] — Debt strategies: fixed rate loans, seller financing, working with community banks
• [41:59–42:28] — Final advice: persistence, patience, and mindset

Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Use today’s quiet market to patiently source and accumulate assets—focus on “problem properties” you can improve.
• Favor small multifamily opportunities, particularly where older owners are motivated to sell.
• Explore creative financing (seller financing, local banks) to secure long-term, fixed-rate debt—even at higher upfront rates.
• If your goal is retirement, prioritize stability and long-term payoff over maximizing short-term cash flow.
• Don’t wait for the next “pop” in asset values—be positioned with owned assets when it comes.
• Stay persistent and patient in slow markets; focus on building the foundation for lasting wealth.

For more deal breakdowns and tactical guides, visit BiggerPockets.com.