I Started BRRRR-ing in My Mid-40s, Now I’ll Retire a Decade Earlier

Summary

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Podcast Summary: BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast

Episode: "I Started BRRRR-ing in My Mid-40s, Now I’ll Retire a Decade Earlier"

Date: November 10, 2025
Host: Dave Meyer (with additional input by a co-host, likely Brandon Turner)
Guest: Brian Waters

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Overview

This episode spotlights Brian Waters, a Southern California firefighter who launched his real estate investing journey in his mid-forties. Brian shares how he leveraged house hacking, turnkey rentals, and eventually the BRRRR (Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat) strategy to build a 16-property portfolio—all while living thousands of miles from his investments. His story demonstrates how real estate can fast-track financial independence, even if you start later in life or live far from affordable markets.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brian's Real Estate Origin Story

[01:45 – 03:15]

• Brian started in his early 20s by house hacking: bought a home and had roommates.
• He built significant equity, which became his "golden goose" for future investments.
• "Who cares who's in my house right, so my mortgage was pretty much free, and that allowed me to build all that equity, which later became the golden goose to my investments.” — Brian Waters (02:18)
• After letting his first property appreciate, he stepped away from real estate for several years.
• Motivation to re-enter: As a firefighter with a dangerous job, new twin boys, and insufficient retirement prospects, he needed a backup financial plan.

2. Second Investment & The "Firefighter Special"

[03:44 – 04:36]

• Re-entered real estate by cash-out refinancing his appreciated home at a historically low interest rate.
• Bought his first Southern California rental from another firefighter—a sale-and-rent-back situation.
• Realization: “I looked at my bank account and I was like, well, I can no longer afford houses in California.” — Brian Waters (04:36)

3. Transition to Out-of-State and Turnkey Investing

[08:03 – 14:31]

• Brian explored turnkey investments to scale, citing limited time as a firefighter and father.
• Benefits of turnkey:
  • Renovated properties with new major systems
  • Pre-leased to tenants
  • Managed by property managers
  • Lower risk and minimal time requirement
  • Transparent underwriting and immediate cash flow
• Due diligence: He validated operators through investor communities and forums.
• “I'm a big believer of follow the herd mentality. So I was talking to other investors through forums, through Facebook groups...you're protected in a lot of senses here." — Brian Waters (10:58)
• Notable operator perks:
  • Builder-paid rate buydowns (as low as 5.5% for 30-year fixed mortgages)
  • One-year tenant guarantee
  • Reduced property management fees
• Chose Memphis as his first turnkey market—“Never been there, still have never been there.” (13:29)
• By this stage, he’d acquired 6 out-of-state turnkey properties before transitioning to BRRRR.

4. Out-of-State Investing Mindset & Systems

[14:38 – 16:28]

• All 15 of Brian’s out-of-state properties were purchased sight unseen.
• Having competent property management and digital systems made long-distance investing viable.
• The distance forced better systems and clear delegation:
  • “By the fact that it’s far away, I’ll wake up in the morning and like, hey, you had a little plumbing leak. Don’t worry, it’s fixed. The tenant’s happy? We’re good.” — Brian Waters (15:23)
• The experience reframed his investor mindset, pushing him to focus on deal analysis and team management rather than property repairs.

5. Leveling Up with BRRRR, Social Media, and Private Funding

[20:04 – 22:50]

• Realizing turnkey investing limited his scaling speed, Brian pivoted to the BRRRR method.
• Vital advice: Document your journey on social media from the start—even if it's uncomfortable.
• “This allowed me at a certain point to raise over a million dollars in private money…” — Brian Waters (20:56)
• All his private lenders have been from his warm circle—friends, family, acquaintances—who approached him after seeing his transparent journey online.

6. BRRRR Success and Lessons in Detroit

[22:50 – 29:54]

• Chose Detroit as a BRRRR market after research, networking, and listening to BiggerPockets (notably episode 1325 [23:04]).
• Toured Detroit himself; found the negative perceptions overblown and saw tangible signs of city revitalization.
• “Don’t listen to people that have not done what you want to do.” — Brian Waters (24:14)
• Built a team with a local, investor-friendly realtor and a trustworthy contractor.
• Detailed a recent Detroit deal:
  • Purchase price: $70,000
  • Rehab budget: $40,000
  • Used a private lender for 100% of costs (10% interest)
  • Rented Section 8 at $1350/month
  • Appraisal: $180,000, allowing a cash-out refinance at 75% LTV—full capital returned, equity left in the home, and some "money in his pocket" after refi.
• “We’re all in for 110. And when we got the section 8 tenant in there, it was 1350 for the rent, but it just appraised for 180. And I was able to pull out, you know, 75% of that. I paid back the lender all their money...” — Brian Waters (27:39)

7. Scaling, Systems, and Personal Philosophy

[28:18 – 29:54]

• Deal flow is abundant; his bottleneck is funding and personal time.
• He's comfortable doing 5 BRRRR deals per year; his system is highly repeatable—standardized finishes, materials, spreadsheets tracking renovation SKUs, etc.
• Emphasizes the importance of mutual benefit—wants contractors, lenders, tenants all to win.
• "Real estate is not a zero sum game... that's when you’re doing it right." — (26:54)

8. Final Advice & Reflections

[29:54 – 30:36]

• Adaptability and ongoing education are key.
  • "You have to have a goal, but the path towards that goal is going to shift and switch. And if you just educate yourself, work hard, you can absolutely do it." — Co-host (30:10)
• Brian’s parting words: keep growing, keep learning, and be willing to evolve your strategy over time.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Leveraging Equity:
  “My mortgage was pretty much free and that allowed me to build all that equity, which later became the golden goose to my investments.”
  – Brian Waters, 02:18

• On Outsourcing with Turnkeys:
  “I love this strategy because literally they give you the numbers, you already know what that it's rented for. You already know that all the major capex items like the roof and water heater is brand new. Those are going to be deferred for later.”
  – Brian Waters, 09:33

• On Social Media for Private Capital:
  “This allowed me at a certain point to raise over a million dollars in private money, which is… super, super happy about that. I have some amazing partners, but it creates that… gap between that, uh, that awkward conversation of me asking them and them coming to me.”
  – Brian Waters, 20:56

• On Market Stereotypes:
  “I've learned not to listen to people that have not done what you want to do.”
  – Brian Waters, 24:14

• On the Mutual Benefit Philosophy:
  “Not only can they win, I want them to win because I want to be their favorite customer... they're going to do better work for you if they're winning with you 100%.”
  – Brian Waters, 27:09

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:45] – Brian’s beginning and first house hack
• [03:44] – Pandemic-era cash-out refi and his first SoCal rental
• [08:03] – Moving out of state, discovering turnkey investing
• [10:58] – Due diligence when choosing turnkey operators
• [13:29] – Memphis selection: “Never been there, still have never been there.”
• [14:38] – All out-of-state investments done sight unseen; importance of property management systems
• [20:56] – How social media led to $1M+ in private money
• [22:50] – Transition into BRRRR, Detroit market entry and local partner building
• [27:39] – A home-run Detroit BRRRR deal walkthrough
• [28:31] – How Brian sources deals & keeps his system repeatable
• [30:10] – Closing advice on adaptability and learning

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Conclusion

Brian Waters’ story provides a blueprint for building wealth through real estate at any stage in life, no matter how far you live from the investments. By relying on proven systems, great teams, and personal branding (even if it feels cringeworthy), he’s on track to retire a decade before his pension would kick in. For listeners, the episode underscores the importance of matching strategies to life circumstances, doing diligent market and partner research, and always evolving one’s approach.

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Transcript

[Dave Meyer]

This investor had no exit plan from a demanding and dangerous day job. Working a full 30 years to vest his pension just didn't feel possible. But then he discovered real estate. And now just five years later, he owns 16 investment properties and is on track to retire 10 years ahead of schedule. And he's doing this while investing thousands of miles away from his expensive California hometown. This is the path to financial freedom. What's up Biggerpockets community I'm Dave Meyer, housing analyst, rental property investor and head of real estate investing at Biggerpockets. Welcome to the show. Today we're bringing you the story of investor Brian Waters from Huntington Beach, California. Brian loves his job, he's a firefighter. But he's seen friends and colleagues struggle trying to reach retirement in a very dangerous line of work. So he started looking for a long term backup plan and he bought his first rental property during the pandemic. Now he's amassed a very impressive out of state portfolio that puts him on path to financial freedom well before his 60s. On today's episode, Brian's going to share what he's been doing, like why he started investing with a turnkey company instead of riskier value add properties, how documenting his journey on social media paid off huge when he needed capital to expand band, and how he's proving every day that the burr is far from dead.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

In Midwest American cities.

[Dave Meyer]

Let's bring on Brian. Brian, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Thank you for being here, Dave.

[Brian Waters]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited. It's good to finally get to meet you and I can't wait to talk about some real estate.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Let's do it. Tell us a little bit about yourself first. Where were you in life when you first got the bug or started thinking about investing in real estate?

[Brian Waters]

I was in my early 20s. I became a medevac pilot in Hawaii, a commercial airline pilot. I was living at home and I wanted to buy a house. I live out in Southern California. It's super expensive. So we had talked to a real estate agent in the area and he kind of had the inside of this place. And I knocked on the door, a lady answered and asked her if she would be willing to sell her house to me. And she said, yeah, but I'm not ready to move. So we bought it. We, we've rented it back to her for a year and then for the next over 10 years, I had roommates, I was a pilot, I was gone flying all over the country. So who cares who's in my house right so my mortgage was pretty much free and that allowed me to build all that equity, which later became the golden goose to my investments.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

So what'd you do from there after a house hack? I think a lot of people either stick with just house hacking over and.

[Dave Meyer]

Over and over again.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

But what did you do after that first deal?

[Brian Waters]

So it was years until I actually got back into the real estate game. So I let that property just increase in value. Lucky Southern California. The home prices go up over time, but that kind of fast forwards me to. To getting in the fire service and being a 33 year old with brand new twin boys and kind of almost in panic mode, like, hey, I don't want to work till I'm 63. And also I'm one injury away from actually having to retire.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah, that's scary. That's hard.

[Brian Waters]

Yeah. I've been part of our peer support team for over 13 years and you see a lot of mental and physical stuff going on and I just had to come up with a plan. So the very next property was. It was right around when Covid was happening. I had enough equity in my house that I was able to refinance. You know, I don't even want to say the rate because it's going to make people, it's going to trigger some people, but it was, it was very low.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Does it start with a three?

[Brian Waters]

It starts with a two.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

It starts with the two. Oh, man. Yeah.

[Brian Waters]

Just don't hate on me for that. But I'll be able to pull out some money. And I wanted to get in real estate because I love my children to death and as a father, I didn't want to have to have them live in Timbuktu and not be around me. So selfishly, I was looking for property where I could buy early and kind of make them have to. Have to be around me forever, you know. So as I was looking around Southern California, I found a house that was for sale. And I call it the firefighter special because the realtor was a fireman, the seller was a fireman, and I was a fireman. And so the seller, he was three years from retirement and he wanted to. To sell his house, but he wanted to live in it for three more years because his son was in high school and finish off. And so I was like, perfect. That was my first rental and that property is still one of my better properties today. But what happened eventually is I looked at my bank account and I was like, well, I can no longer afford houses in California.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah.

[Brian Waters]

My next journey was into the out of state stuff.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Now, Brian, I want to hear how you scaled because I've sort of gone down a similar path where I started in a more expensive market. At a certain point it gets super hard and so you have to come up with a new strategy. You don't have to go out of state, but it sounds like you did. We're going to hear about that, but we do have to take one quick break. We'll be right back. Stick with us.

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[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

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[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

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[Dave Meyer]

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[Dave Meyer]

Welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. I'm here with investor Brian Waters who is just talking about how he turned.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

His primary residence into a small portfolio in Southern California. But Brian sounds like he hit the point most people in California do where it's just not really logical to keep going.

[Dave Meyer]

At least if you want to buy rental property.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

So what was your solution to that challenge?

[Brian Waters]

What I decided to do instead of going into the flips or the burrs, which I later got into, I decided to go the turnkey method. And for me that has been an amazing transition to out of state properties.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

People call turnkey different things. Some people say a property that you buy directly that is just fixed up and nice is turnkey. But you're talking about buying from a turnkey operator.

[Brian Waters]

Yes, absolutely.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

So maybe you could just tell our audience a little bit about what that entails and why you are attracted to it.

[Brian Waters]

So number one, this is a great strategy for an active, hard working W2 super busy person. I'm a firefighter, I'm a dad, I coach full time football for my kids. I don't have a lot of time to go do this stuff. And those other strategies aren't wrong. But what these turnkey providers are, there's companies all over the country and they internally do everything they Go out and door knock. They market, they cold call, they find the houses. Once they do that, then they go out and have their own construction teams that fix the properties and they put in new flooring, new kitchens, new bathrooms, new water heaters, new roofs, everything. And then what they do is they turn around and they have a property management company that finds a tenant and signs a lease. Then they put it on their website. It never goes to the market and investors can go buy it. So I love this strategy because literally they give you the numbers, you already know what that it's rented for. You already know that all the major capex items like the roof and water heater is brand new. Those are going to be deferred for later. You have a good quality product and you could run the numbers because you know what the price is, you know what the insurance is, you know what the rent is, and you just have to analyze it. And that's what I did. And I absolutely love that strategy for beginners.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah, I think what you said is so important that where you are, the kind of investor you are will usually dictate if this is a good strategy for you. Like if you're busy and you're out.

[Dave Meyer]

Of state, this is a great idea.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

This just makes a ton of sense, right? Like being able to go out and buy something, get the benefits of a value add opportunity, but not having to go out and source all of the.

[Dave Meyer]

Contractors or subs yourself.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Knowing that the repairs and capex and maintenance and all this stuff is going to be a little bit less is really appealing. But I have some questions because I think this is a really interesting option for our audience I'd love to dig in on. So did you know the market you wanted to invest in? Did you go out and find the turnkey operator first?

[Dave Meyer]

Or how did you find a deal.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

That you were comfortable with?

[Brian Waters]

So what I did is I called multiple turnkey providers and this is kind of a buyer beware for all the listeners. There's some really, really good ones out there and there's some really bad ones. Right. So I am a big believer of follow the herd mentality. So I was talking to other investors through forums, through Facebook groups. The cool part about that is, is you're, you're protected in a, in a lot of senses here. You know, you're protected by the inspection report, you're protected by an appraisal. You already have a lease signed and people will argue, well, you're not going to cash flow on these. I want to tell you a little bit about some of the incentives these people are offering, which is actually blowing my mind when I talk about it. So a few of the ones out there that are really good, they will buy the rates down to 5.5%, 30 year conventional fixed, which is amazing.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

That's awesome.

[Brian Waters]

They have a one year tenant guarantee where if the tenant moves out they're going to pay you that rent that was talked about. They often will have lower incentive property management fees of 5%. We're investing in these states that have low property taxes and again, the capex items are all taken care of. So I, I'm very conservative when I underwrite stuff, but every single one of these cash flows.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Well, good on you for doing your due diligence because I think that's the real thing that people get hung up on about because you're right there. Especially like in 2021, 2022, there everyone was calling themselves a turnkey rental company, you know, and I would just encourage you all to look for people have a track record. You know, there are great reputable companies who do this. I'm sure they are frustrated by some of the people in the industry that give them a bad name. But there are very good, reliable companies that do this. And I love that you called the investors too. These businesses, they're different than traditional home sellers. And I think it's similar to something we've talked about on the show recently, which is that new construction is becoming more appealing because builders just have a different business model. They need to move inventory. And the same thing is true with turnkey operators too. They're doing volume and they're willing to buy down your rate to sell something a month faster. Whereas home sellers, Brian gave us two examples. People are like, I'll just wait three years. You know, it's just like a totally different mindset. And so if you're the kind of investor, one who can move quickly to my buy at volume by buy more than one, people will potentially work with you and give you really great deals.

[Dave Meyer]

So Brian, how did you actually ultimately pick a deal?

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Did you, did you settle on the operator first or the market first or what order did you go in?

[Brian Waters]

I settled on the market first, which was Memphis. And Memphis was a market that a lot of people were talking about. Never been there, still have never been there. But I asked around different people who had used them. Some of these investors had multiple ones and when I interviewed them and talked to them, I mean these people sometimes are turning over hundreds of properties. And so I was using them as the subject Matter experts in that area.

[Dave Meyer]

That's great.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And have you scaled that up since then?

[Brian Waters]

Yeah. So I currently have a total of 16 properties. Fifteen of those are out of state and I've kind of spread my wings a little bit to other markets as well. The first six properties, minus the California one, were all turnkey. At that point, I kind of opened the wallet again and was like, oh, where's all my money? And so I had to start getting creative. And that's. At that point I felt like I'd really learned a lot about the industry. Even though they were easier to do. I understood how to analyze stuff, how to find stuff. I started really digging into the bigger pockets, communities and. And understanding. And so then I transitioned into the brrrr stuff.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And so how many turnkey properties do you have total?

[Brian Waters]

9 turnkey totals and then the rest are all burrs.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And you've never seen any of them?

[Brian Waters]

Never even been to the state. That.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

That's incredible. I know. Yeah. I mean, you must have good reporting then, right? Like that to me would be the thing that I would be nervous about. I invest out of state too, but I have just hand property managers. Clearly you're happy with the property management.

[Brian Waters]

Oh yeah. And they use all the fancy online portals where they send you stuff. And truthfully, it becomes easier by the fact that it's away from me. It have to have better systems and I have to have a better team to do it. So I can go to the fire department and take care of the community, or I can be on the football field coaching my kids stuff and not have to worry about, hey, the tenant called me. And first off, I'm not even good at that stuff. I'd go over there and probably break more than I would try to fix. Right?

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Oh, I know all about that.

[Brian Waters]

Yeah, right. So by the fact that it's far away, I'll wake up in the morning and like, hey, you had a little plumbing leak. Don't worry, it's fixed. The tenants happy? We're good. I'm like, cool, thanks. Yeah, moving on.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Well, good for you. I know it is a big leap for anyone listening to this to invest out of state, but I completely agree with you, Brian. It forces you to just take a different position on the team. When I lived and invested in Colorado, I did so much myself just because I could. I live down the road and it just seems silly to go hire someone to do that.

[Dave Meyer]

And that worked well.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Like, I don't regret doing that. But as soon as I started investing out of state, I'm like, oh, I could concentrate on what I am good at, which is like finding markets, analyzing deals, doing asset management, and find people who are way better at property management than I am. I wasn't doing myself any favors fixing stuff. Absolutely not. And so I think it's, you know, it's almost like this forcing function that allows you to just like mature as an investor if you do things out of state. But you know, it takes a certain personality. Not everyone's going to be comfortable with that. I do want to hear more about how you moved onto brrrrs and what you've been up to recently, but we.

[Dave Meyer]

Gotta take one more quick break.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

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[Dave Meyer]

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[Dave Meyer]

Welcome Back to the BiggerPockets podcast. I'm here with investor Brian Waters, talking.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

About how he he moved from investing in his own backyard in California to doing out of state turnkey properties in Memphis. Brian, what came next for you?

[Brian Waters]

So as I did a few of the turnkey properties, I kind of analyzed what these providers were doing and I had really started to educate myself. There was so much that I learned early on and it was less risky. Those turnkeys had a lot less Risk. But I knew that I couldn't just continue saving up for a property and buy. Saving up for property and buy. So I wanted to scale faster. One thing that was super, super important and I had this discussion with this awesome couple at the BiggerPockets convention we just had.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah.

[Brian Waters]

Is one of my friends early on told me is you have to to start using social media when you first start. And I still to this day cringe when I watch my own videos. It just uncomfortable.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Sucks at the beginning.

[Brian Waters]

It's so hard. The reason I'm talking about this is because this allowed me at a certain point to raise over a million dollars in private money, which is. I'm super, super happy about that. I have some amazing partners, but it creates that. That gap between that. That awkward conversation of me asking them and them coming to me. When they come to me, I could just have a conversation. I won't even talk about private lending until they, you know, say, hey, I want to do this too, but I don't want to put in all the work. And then it's easier. It's more of an organic conversation. So all my lenders have come from pretty much my warm circle friends, family, aunts, uncles, people that came to me and I was able to take that money. And now I'm like, well, now I gotta start borrowing, right?

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Because I have all better do something.

[Brian Waters]

I learned about the, the private money process and I found a gem of a contractor in the city of Detroit, and I've been hammering Detroit. And I know you talked a lot about this on a few podcasts recently and yeah, I love that market. And I've in the past two years of Bird, we're on our seventh property there right now. And for those who say the burr is dead, I disagree.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yes, I love it, Brian. We're just breaking down myths. Burr is not dead. Your primary residence is not a bad investment. I love it. Well, I just want to commend you for the social media thing. I know from personal experience it's very awkward to get started, but it is a really powerful tool. It takes a lot of guts, man. So, so good for you. And I know not everyone's going to do that, but it's a really repeatable strategy that almost anyone can do. If you are willing to laugh at yourself the first couple of times you make a reel, because they're not going to come out well, they're going to be very cringy and then you'll get better over time. Well, in the spirit of getting uncomfortable, tell me about Doing the Burr long distance. That. I'm sure that was a little bit uncomfortable too.

[Brian Waters]

Oh, it was completely uncomfortable. And, you know, not all of them went perfect. I will say that my last two were actually home runs.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Like in the last couple years.

[Brian Waters]

Like, no, in the last, like, couple days. Like the love that.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Amazing.

[Brian Waters]

So I had heard about the Detroit market with. I actually listened to episode 1325 on the the Bigger Pockets Daily where they read the articles out.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Waters]

And that. I highly encourage all the listeners to go and listen to that one. It's an article that someone wrote about the Detroit market and it blew my mind. I was like, oh, here's an opportunity. I had never been there. So this was one of the one markets that I actually went to. Everyone told me, like, this city is super dangerous. Don't go there. But you know what? I've learned not to listen to people that have not done what you want to do. The downtown area had people driving around on those beer cars with kegs on them. There's rooftop bars. Super clean companies like Rocket Mortgage have their headquarters there. They just bought Redfin, by the way.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah.

[Brian Waters]

All those factories have been coming back up. The. The Detroit Lions are doing good go lines. If you're a fan. It's one of the only cities in or one of 10 cities in the country that have all five major sports. They're building a Detroit FC soccer stadium there. Oh, cool. So they're just putting. It was so bad for so long. So there's only one way that it can go. And it can go. Yeah. So as I. What I did is I contacted a realtor before I went again, interviewed a few, made sure they're investor friendly, asked them to give me some neighborhoods. I already knew a bunch of houses that were for sale and that had sold. And so I was kind of doing a little bit of detective work in that area and it just blew me away.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

You know, people always generalize things about cities. Whether it's Detroit or Chicago or Indianapolis or whatever it is. Go there and decide for yourself. Like, I really. I have learned a lot. I've gone to a lot of markets. I love doing what you're doing, by the way. I do the same exact thing. I have a map. I drive around. I just walk into random stores. I just try and get the vibe. It's a vibe check. I don't know how else to describe it, but you do that.

[Dave Meyer]

I have gone to markets that people.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Love and I hated them. I've gone to markets that people hate and I've loved them. It's just depends on who you are, what you're comfortable with, what you're trying to accomplish. But think for yourself like that. I think that's really the thing. And honestly, it's one of the reasons why on this podcast, people always message.

[Dave Meyer]

Me and they're like, what markets do you invest in? The Midwest?

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And I don't tell them because I don't want you to do what I do, because what I do is for me and my strategy. And you shouldn't just blindly listen to.

[Dave Meyer]

Me or to Brian or to anyone else.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

You should come up with your own strategy and find the markets. If you want to do out of state, that work for you. So maybe walk us through one of your recent deals. Like, what are the numbers on these?

[Brian Waters]

Look, like what I do is I go on to Redfin and I put little areas, and that sends me a message right away when something pops up. So I knew where I wanted to go first. I already had a private lender ready to go. And when this property came up, we just struck on it right away and nice. It was $70,000. And the scope of work on it was 40 grand.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And so when you say you're doing the private lender, are you just straight up buying 100% of the acquisition price and the renovation with one private lender? Is that kind of the goal?

[Brian Waters]

Correct. I've. I've mixed before, but I think it's easier for me and for that lender just to do one one offs together.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Okay, so you just did. You basically borrowed 110 grand. Do you mind telling us, is that like hard money kind of terms? 10, 12% interest, no points, and I.

[Brian Waters]

Pay that lender 10%.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Brian Waters]

It's a great deal. And again, getting back to solving people's problems, my lender was on a fixed income. She's an older lady that has. She had to have roommates, and she's in her 70s. And so I came to her and I said, you deserve to live alone and make some money. How do we solve that problem for you? And I was willing to pay whatever. And we came to terms on that. And the next month she moved her roommate out. She has her own space. And she is, she's loving our relationship. And, you know, I take really good care of her because she deserves that.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

That's fantastic. Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. Again, always talking about this mutual benefit real estate. It's not a zero sum game. Your contractor can win, your realtor can win, your tenants can win, your lender can win and you can win all at the same time. That's when you're doing it right.

[Brian Waters]

Not only can they win, I want them to win because I want to be their favorite customer when they're coming back and they're going to do better work for you if you're. If they're winning with you 100%.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

I love that approach. So tell us, finish the deal. So get 110. Is this one of the home runs that you're talking about?

[Brian Waters]

This is one of the home runs. So they cranked it out. We ended up putting a Section 8 tenant in there. The process was pretty simple because we put in new everything and I'd planned to keep it for a while. Please don't lipstick on a pig stuff you guys like.

[Dave Meyer]

It's.

[Brian Waters]

It's important if you're going to keep this for a long time. The tenant deserves a nice place to live. And if you're going to keep it, it's going to have less headaches for you later. So we're all in for 110. And when we got the section 8 tenant in there, it was 1350 for the rent, but it just appraised for 180. And I was able to pull out, you know, 75% of that. I paid back the lender all their money. I still have a ton of equity in the property and I was able to actually put money in my own pocket. I know this is rare, but they're out there still. So.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Wow, that's unbelievable. And I'm curious, like, what is your deal flow? Like can you, are you having trouble finding these or can you kind of do as many of these as you want?

[Brian Waters]

Yeah, I could do as many as I want. I mean there's. In that market, there's so many. Just because a brrrr is not perfect and you're not getting all your money out. I would argue that if, if you can get half of your money out, that's still better than a normal deal.

[Dave Meyer]

100.

[Brian Waters]

If you can get a hundred dollars back, that is a win. You have to totally change your expectations of what is perfect. And yeah, and but to answer your question, I look for on market stuff. I also have now have a contact with a really good wholesaler out there. And third, my GC is always on the move looking for. Because he's a realtor, he's always sending me deals. So I have more deals than I could fund. But I also am a busy working professional so I'm trying to start with my strategy, I don't want to do a thousand. I'm a busy person. So I'm doing five a year right now. And that's plenty for me.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

That's plenty. And how much time does that take? You like, an average week or month.

[Brian Waters]

I think the hardest part is probably the underwriting, getting the property going. But once we do that, what? I'm using the same flooring, the same color paint, the same windows, everything. I literally have a spreadsheet, and I do this in case I have to change contractors, but all the way down to the item number at Home Depot or Lowe's, where it becomes super simple for them to do it. Also, I could predict my costs better. Right?

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Yeah.

[Brian Waters]

So. So once I get that, I. I'm spending a couple hours here and there. If problems come up, then obviously it takes me more. But it's part of that. Who, not how. Find that team member that's going to be really good at their job and it's going to be less work for you. It's not passive. But, yeah, it's less work that I have to do.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

Awesome. Well, I love it. Brian. Well, congratulations on your success. I really admire the way you've sort of adapted over the course of your career. I think a lot of people come in to say, I'm going to be this kind of investor. I'm not going to be this kind of investor, but you got to learn. You know, I wrote the book Star Strategy.

[Dave Meyer]

You have to have a goal, but.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

The path towards that goal is going to shift and switch. And if you just educate yourself, work hard, you can absolutely do it. So congratulations on all your success.

[Brian Waters]

Thank you.

[Dave Meyer]

And thank you for being here.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

I loved hearing your story. We'll have to hear how you're doing in a year or two. You have to come back and join us again.

[Brian Waters]

Thank you guys for the opportunity. This has been an amazing opportunity for me. And, yeah, keep growing, keep learning, and I would love to come back at some point if you have me.

[BiggerPockets Host (likely Brandon Turner or a similar host)]

And thank you all so much for being a part of this community and for listening to this podcast. We'll see you in a few days for another episode of the Bigger Pockets of Podcast. So I tried explaining a sandwich lease.

[Dave Meyer]

To my insurance guy once, and he just blinked at me like I made it up. And that's sort of the thing, right? Most insurance companies don't understand how we invest. You go vacant for a few weeks, you switch strategies, you hold stuff in an llc, and suddenly your coverage doesn't fit. That's why I recommend National Real Estate Insurance Group. They actually get real estate investors. Their coverage adjusts as your property changes and you get one monthly bill for everything, no matter how weird your portfolio is. You can check them [e-mail] bppod that's nreig.com bppod okay, we're shifting gears for.

[Aaron the Ad Guy]

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