Making Money 7 Different Ways on Each Property (Without Even Owning It!)

Summary

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BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast

Episode: Making Money 7 Different Ways on Each Property (Without Even Owning It!)
Date: March 25, 2026
Host: Dave Meyer & Henry Washington
Guest: Chauncey Pham

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Dallas-based investor and entrepreneur Chauncey Pham, who has built a vertically integrated real estate business. Chauncey reveals how she reliably makes money from seven different revenue streams on every property she touches—without ever owning the property herself. She provides a rare look into how thinking beyond simple buy-and-hold or flipping can transform real estate into a true, scalable business. The hosts and Chauncey discuss creative deal sourcing, the benefits of vertical integration, and actionable steps for investors to monetize every stage of a deal.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chauncey’s Background and Journey Into Real Estate

• Early Career in Sales and Marketing: Started in hardcore sales, then became an account executive at a marketing firm working with major brands (01:55).
• Real Estate License Motivation: Initially got her license to afford a Disney World vacation—unexpectedly made her annual salary in just three months as an agent thanks to her sales background (02:45).
• Transition From Agent to Investor: Became the top recruiter at a national brokerage with 400 agents under her, enabling her to start investing (03:10).

2. Why Get a Real Estate License First?

• Understanding Both Sides of the Transaction: Chauncey credits her agent experience as pivotal to her success as an investor, giving her unique insight into buyers’ psychology and what makes a home memorable (04:09).
  • “I 100% attribute my successes and my mindset in being an investor to the fact that I was a realtor first.” – Chauncey (04:09)
• Debate Over the Necessity of a License: Hosts discuss the balance between understanding transactions and systemizing processes (05:12).

3. Early Investing Lessons & The Transition to Flipping

• First Investment Client: Learned how much more investors could make over agents; realized she could improve on a client’s inefficient processes (06:29).
• Husband Joins the Business: Convinced her husband, a corporate exec, to quit and run the investment arm (08:25).

4. Creative Deal Sourcing: Solving Problems, Not Just Finding Properties

• First Flip Example: Bought for $125K, sold for $186K with zero renovations after solving a title lien problem—emphasizing deals exist through problem-solving, not just numbers (12:53; 13:43).
  • “Are those types of deals still out there where you just need to be a problem solver? Yes, all day long.” – Chauncey (14:19)

5. Live Seller Call Roleplay: Building Trust and Flexible Solutions

• Seller Conversation Demo: Chauncey demonstrates her warm, problem-oriented approach—probing for pain points, leveraging agent/investor flexibility, and presenting options tailored to sellers’ true needs (15:40-18:31).
  • “If I could wave a magic wand for you…how does the situation play out in your head?” – Chauncey (15:48)
  • “You don’t get both at the same time. You can’t be out of time and want more money.” – Chauncey (18:39)

6. Scaling Up Flips and the Path to Vertical Integration

• Flipping Volume: Scaled from 10 flips the first year to a peak of 21.
• Price Evolution: Started with properties in the $100Ks–$300Ks range, now routinely buying for $300K–$400K+ and selling $600K–$800K+ (21:45–22:23).

7. Product Differentiation: Designing for Demand, Not Spec Sheets

• Quirky, Character-Filled Homes: Focuses on stand-out features—like sunken living rooms and unique architecture—drawing passionate buyers and avoiding “beige box” renovations (23:25–24:07).
  • “Your job as a marketer is to create an offer that's so irresistible…the consumer can't not buy...almost create raving fans.” – Chauncey (24:18)

8. Rental Properties & Market Challenges

• Rental Portfolio: Holds 17 rentals in East Texas for cash flow, but dislikes their lack of appreciation; uses flipping to generate capital instead (28:44).

9. The Turnkey, Vertically Integrated Flip Model

• No Ownership, Multiple Revenue Streams:
  • Offers a truly “done-for-you” flipping service to capital partners—Chauncey’s companies handle acquisition, lending, construction, design, staging, and sales, collecting a piece at every step (30:29).
  • “I'm able to make six figures on each deal with zero money out of my pocket.” – Chauncey (32:37)
  • Investors get 20-25% returns without lifting a finger; Chauncey’s businesses profit at every stage by internalizing what would otherwise go to outside providers (32:54; 33:26; 36:13).

10. Risk, Rewards, and Structure for Investors

• Margin Structure: No fixed fees—profits come from different verticals depending on the property specifics.
• Risk Mitigation: Underwrites conservatively, any cost overruns are clear and deliberate choices for extra upside, not open-ended risk (34:46–36:13).

11. Building and Owning the Vertical Integration One Step at a Time

• Exercise in Monetizing Every Step: Realized up to 45 people make money on a single transaction—set out to internalize as many as possible (37:25, 39:47).
• Implementation over Reinvention: Advocates starting with functions you already perform and pulling them in-house, rather than starting unrelated businesses (39:47).
• All Businesses Built from Scratch: Started one by one, keeping focus on serving her primary verticals (40:02-40:27).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Problem Solving in Acquisitions:
  “Are those types of deals still out there where you just need to be a problem solver? Yes, all day long. That's what all of them are.” – Chauncey (14:19)

• On Vertical Integration and Risk:
  “I'm able to make six figures on each deal with zero money out of my pocket.” – Chauncey (32:37)

• On Seller Negotiation:
  “If I could wave a magic wand for you…how does the situation play out in your head?” – Chauncey (15:48)
  “You don’t get both at the same time. You can’t be out of time and want more money, okay?” – Chauncey (18:39)

• On Differentiating Renovations:
  “We find the houses with old character and we try to preserve it.” – Chauncey (23:55)

• On Building Multiple Businesses:
  “Just one by one...I think you start to get into the weeds with vertical integration when you're trying to reinvent the wheel instead of looking at what you're already doing, who you're paying money to, and then seeing how you can kind of bring that in house.” – Chauncey (40:13, 39:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chauncey’s Early Career & Agent Experience: 01:55–03:55
• Why Real Estate License Helps Investors: 04:09
• Transition to Flipping & Husband’s Role: 06:29–08:51
• First Flip, Problem-Solving Mindset: 12:53–14:57
• Live Seller Negotiation Roleplay: 15:40–19:22
• Flipping Numbers, Market Evolution: 21:45–23:00
• Design Differentiation, Buyer Psychology: 23:25–24:58
• Rental Properties in East Texas: 28:44–29:47
• Explaining the Turnkey Model: 30:29–34:46
• Risk and Profit Structure for Investors: 34:59–36:13
• Vertical Integration Process: 37:25–41:05

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Takeaways for Real Estate Entrepreneurs

• Vertical Integration Provides Stability & Scale: Bringing more segments of the real estate process in-house can multiply profit, reduce risk, and provide a buffer against market shifts.
• Adopt A Service Mindset: Viewing real estate as a set of overlapping services, not just one-off deals, can open up numerous revenue streams.
• Memorability Wins: Creating unique, attractive homes wins passionate buyers, multiple offers, and strong margins—even in competitive markets.
• You Don’t Need to Own to Profit: Operating as an “operator” serving capital partners can be safer and more scalable than owning properties outright.

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For actionable insights and inspiration on multi-stream real estate entrepreneurship, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

She makes money seven different ways on every real estate deal and never even owns the property. Most real estate investors think in deals. They think buy a property, renovate it, sell it, or rent it out. One revenue stream per house. In 2022, Chauncey was flipping houses and accumulating rentals, doing 20 deals per year. To make more money. She needed more capital and more contractors and more tenants, and that means more headaches. So. So she built an entirely new model. Now she runs a vertically integrated real estate operation. Her clients put up the capital and they keep the profits. But Chauncey takes the cut at every stage of the project, which can often even be more profitable without all of the risk. This business gives Chauncey a unique view of the entire real estate investing ecosystem. Today, she's sharing the lessons she's learned from this rare real estate perspective. What's going on, everybody? I'm Hendrick Henry Washington. Oh, yeah, and Dave's here too. What's up, Dave?

[B]

Don't sound so disappointed. I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a fun conversation with Chauncey today.

[A]

Yes, I'm super excited too. And honestly, there's probably a lot of real estate investors out there who have the skills and resources to do something like this, and they probably just haven't done it. Today we're talking with Chauncey Pham, an investor in the Dallas market, and we're talking about building wealth through real estate ecosystems, not just properties. Chauncey's going to show you how to think about real estate as a business with multiple revenue streams, how to source deals creatively without relying on wholesalers, and which pieces of the process you can start monetizing today, whether you're flipping, buying rentals, or doing any other strategy. So let's bring her on. Chauncey, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast.

[C]

Hi. Thanks, guys, for having me on.

[A]

Let's start this off the same way we start off every show. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and what you were doing prior to real estate?

[C]

So my background is hardcore one call, close type sales, and then I end up transitioning into a marketing role. I was an account executive for a marketing firm where I worked with a lot of C stores and fashion chains. So bcbg, bb, Circle K. And I essentially was the liaison between their marketing departments and my company who actually created all of their point of purchase marketing. And so it was really, really cool because I learned the psychology behind marketing in that role. And. And while I had that job. My husband and I end up buying and selling a couple of primary residences. And our loan officer was like, you'd be really freaking good if you got your real estate license. So I got my license, but I legit got my real estate license because I wanted us to go to Disney World and ball out with the VIP passes and passes. That's why I got my real estate license.

[B]

So you're like, if I sell one house, then I can go to Disney World.

[C]

I can go to Disney World and fall out. And so that's why I got my license. But because I had the seller background and the marketing background, within three months of getting in the business, I'd made my entire annual salary in commissions. And so I quit my job and it was off to the races from there.

[A]

So what year was this when you got your license and then decided to do your actual first real estate deal?

[C]

So I got my real estate license in 2016, and I just was a traditional realtor from 2016 until I picked up my first investment deal in 2019. So after a year of having my brokerage, which, by the way, the root word of brokerage is broke, and that's what the hell I was for the whole year and a half, because realtors don't sell anything. Okay, let's just 90% of them don't sell nothing. And so I essentially then moved my brokerage, shut it down, and went over to the national brokerage that I'm with now and became the top recruiter within the first year that I was there. Brought 400 agents underneath me in that first year, which was making money off of all of their sales, which then allowed me to get out and start investing. So I started doing that in 2019.

[B]

Chauncey, we get this question a lot about becoming a broker, real estate agent before becoming a real estate investor, or in tandem with becoming a real estate investor. So what is your advice to people who are considering that path?

[C]

I 100% attribute my successes and my mindset in being an investor to the fact that I was a realtor first.

[B]

Really?

[C]

100%. And I would recommend to anyone that wants to be an investor to at least explore getting their real estate license not so that they can go and sell houses, but so that they can understand the basics of the real estate transaction from the consumer perspective. Because when I started flipping, I knew what it was like to take a buyer to see eight, 10 houses in a day. And at the end of the day, ask them which one they want to put an offer on and how 90% of them were completely forgotten because they were, were all just white, gray. Same floors, same trim. It's all the same thing. They didn't remember any of them. And I knew what made them tick emotionally. So I always said, if I start flipping, I've got to find a way to be strategic in creating a product that's going to be memorable for clients and be something that people actually seek out. And 100%, that is what has set me apart from everyone else that's in my market.

[A]

I don't 100% agree with you on the getting your real estate license first thing, but I totally, but I totally understand that perspective. And I, I like the perspective of, like, understanding both sides of the transaction, because you're absolutely right. A lot of investors purely numbers focused. The amount of times I've heard flippers say, just get a spec sheet and flip the same house to the same spec sheet, same color, same finishes, because it's better for business. Drives me up a wall. Every house we do is about what we think the buyer in that neighborhood or that particular market will wants, and that's what's going to help your houses sell faster. So that perspective on why you should get your real estate license I think is a pretty cool and unique perspective. And I, and I agree with you. Investors need to learn more about what your customers want. And sure, there's probably some happy medium between, like, systems, processes, and repeatability and then still having some form of individuality, but you've got to do it properly, correct?

[C]

Correct.

[A]

I'm assuming as you were doing these real estate transactions as a, as an agent, you were like, hey, these investors seem to be making some money. How are they doing this? Like, what made you decide, I'm going to take the risk and do my own real estate deal? Because it sounds like you were killing it as an agent, right?

[C]

Yeah, so. So what made me kind of pivot from just being an agent to an investor is I had an investor client, he reached out to me, he had a flip that was in a neighborhood that I'd sold quite a few listings and was like, hey, can you just go and give me some feedback on this property? It's been sitting on the market, not getting any showings. Let me know. So I went, called him the next day, and I said, you know, here's my advice, here's what's going on. He called me then the next day and said, all right, I've got good news and I got bad news. The good news is I don't have to deal with the realtor that had my house listed. And the bad news is, I don't have to deal with her anymore because I fired her. And if you don't take my listing on, then I'm screwed, because all my money's in this house. And so I took his listing on, and I sold it the very next week over asking. And from that point on, I became his. His agent. So I helped him with acquisitions. I helped him on the consulting side. And then when his flips would go on the be. They're ready to go on the market, I actually, you know, listed the properties. And I would see every single time that we went to the closing table how much money he was making versus, like, what my commission was. And I also learned his process, and he didn't have one. He didn't have a duplicatable process. He literally just was like, luck deals were falling into his lap, and then he would get it and take it down. And when I would ask him, what's your process of getting these houses? What? He had zero processes. And so for me, I said, if this guy can do it and he's making this money, then I definitely can create a duplicatable processing system. And plus, all of these lips are kind of ugly, so I can do it, and I can do it better. And so I actually talked to my husband, who was basically a c. Sweet executive. He was our breadwinner. Right. Like, I was making great money, but he has the insurance. He got the job. And I'm like, babe, quit your job and join me in real estate, and you can open our investing side. And he was like, all right, bet. And he did.

[B]

Really?

[C]

And he did.

[B]

That's it. Just like that.

[C]

Literally. It took him a couple of months.

[A]

He's a sales expert. Do what to say to him.

[B]

Yeah, he didn't even know it was coming.

[C]

And he's a sales guy, too. So we always argue about who's the best closer. And I'm like, who's the best closer now? And so, yeah, got him to quit the job. And he started our investment company. In November of 2018 and January 2019, we had our first deal.

[A]

All right, we've got to take a quick break, but when we come back, we'll hear more from Chauncey right after this.

[B]

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[D]

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[B]

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[A]

All right, we're back with Chauncey Fam talking about vertically integrating your real estate business.

[C]

This.

[A]

Let's get back to it.

[B]

So what did that first deal look like?

[C]

This particular property, we went out and walked it and long story short, we were able to pick it up for $125,000. The lady just wanted enough to pay it off and have a little bit of money to walk away. We bought it for 125. There was nothing wrong with the house. We were going to put about 20 grand into it and sell it at like the 215 mark. But instead I threw it on the MLS in coming soon and had an investor that was looking for rentals in the neighborhood put it in for coming soon at 192, went under contract, sold it two weeks later at 186 and did absolutely nothing to it. So it was basically a wholesale deal and I was able to take that 60,000 and then we just kind of kept rolling from there.

[B]

Obviously that sounds incredible, Chauncey. People are probably wondering like, is that possible? Is it possible anymore? Or is that kind of like a, that kind of deal a relic of a different time in the market?

[C]

I don't think that her situation was unique. The way that we were able to capitalize on that was she had previously had the house on the market with a realtor and it had gone under contract. And when it had gone under contract, the Title company popped up with a lien, and it was a consumer debt lien. And so when we talked to her, she was like, last year tried to sell my house, but this lien is on here. If you guys can just get this lien gone and just get me this much money in my pocket, like you can have the house. And so I think that what was unique about that situation wasn't necessarily unique. It was the fact that we understood how to, how to solve a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so are those types of deals still out there where you just need to be a problem solver? Yes, all day long. That's what all of them are. And I just think that far too many people are in the game and they're not looking at themselves as problem solvers. Rather they're going in with kind of a one trick pony. Because even when we went to her, it was, it was not, let me just buy your house. It was, I can buy your house, I can list your house because I'm a licensed realtor. That's another reason you should probably get your real estate license. I can, can renovate it if you want. And then, you know, take, take the cost of the renovation, just put a lien on it and then we can sell it on the market. Whichever solution is best for you. And so I definitely think those deals are out here.

[A]

Yeah, those deals definitely exist. I have one under contract right now that we're, I think we're paying 180. It doesn't need any work. We're going to clean it up, throw it back on the market for 250. It's the situation that's causing us, you know, it's called the lady is about to lose it in foreclosure. And so we're going to buy it. She's going to make some money instead of just losing. And then we're going to turn it. The house was built like three years ago. So it's about looking for situations. Right, Chauncey, can we play a game?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm going to put your skills to the test.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

We're going to role play. I'm going to be a seller.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

So I filled out your website. I have a house on 123 Main Street. You get the lead and you're calling me and I answer the phone and what do we say? What do we do?

[C]

Hey there, Henry. How are you?

[A]

Oh, I'm doing great. How about you?

[C]

I'm doing pretty good. Hey, you're the owner, right over at 123 Main Street?

[A]

Yes, I am. Absolutely.

[C]

All right, cool. Well, I got your information from my website. It looks like you are looking to sell this thing really quickly. So tell me this before we even get into the conversation, if I could wave a magic wand for you, get this thing sold exactly the way that you want to. How does the situation play out in your head?

[A]

I. I would love to get it sold and get it sold quickly because I really need to unload this property so I can get the money I need to move on to my next property.

[C]

Okay, so. So number one, how much money do you need to move on to your next property? And number two, why do you need to sell so urgently?

[A]

Yeah, I need to sell urgently because I found a house that I really want to buy and this one has too much work that it needs for me to get done. So I'm. I. I just need it. I just need out.

[C]

Okay, so you need out. And how quickly are you looking to close?

[A]

At least 30 days or less. If you can go faster, that'd be great.

[C]

Okay, awesome. And so then at that point, I would typically do some sort of analysis with them and start pulling up, you know, the comps on the property. And at that point, I would start really poking the bear at the pain. Right. So I would ask them to send me any pictures or possibly FaceTime me. Let's do a quick video walkthrough of the property so then I can compare it to what's on the market. In this way, this can expedite me getting them an offer. I don't even need to come out to the house. FaceTime me real quick. Get me on zoom. Let's walk through it right now. I can get you an offer right now on the phone. And I'm going to also at that same time pull up some other properties and have him pull it up and acknowledge the fact that his property is nowhere close to those so that when I come with my low ass number, he's not offended. You understand your house doesn't look like one two four Main Street. That's right up the street. This one, look, this one has granite countertops. We just walked through yours. As for Micah, and I'm gonna have to replace all of that, Right? You understand that? And so I typically walk them through all of that and then I'll even normally ask them a question. So. So, Henry, based on these houses that I just showed you, how much money would you personally think needs to be put into your house to get it up to that level?

[A]

I love this question because I do it all the time, I would say somewhere between 25 and $30,000, which in seller talk means what to do an investor.

[C]

Yeah. Now, Henry, who. How are we going to get 25, $35,000 done on the. You think I'm doing the work or I'm going to hire someone I have to hire?

[A]

There we go.

[C]

Right. So that's, that's not going to work. Realistically, this is looking like about $100,000 that I'm going to have to put into it. So, so let's back these numbers out. So you, you want to walk away with xyz. And in order to do that, I would have to give you this number. But If I attack $100,000 on top of it, when I turn around to sell it, I don't have any money. So let's, let's work out something that's fair. Does that, does that work? If I can solve your problem in the timeframe that you need it solved, but I'm also solving a problem for myself, like, let's, let's make some shake. And that's typically how I level with them.

[A]

That's, and that's, that's the investor standpoint. Now, when you make those offers, are you also offering them a solution where you're the agent?

[C]

Correct.

[A]

At the same time?

[C]

So typically, if they are offended by the investor offer, when you look, look, you don't get both at the same time. You don't, you can't be out of time and want more money. Okay. So, so if you want to tell me right now that you're not out of time, then I have another solution for you. And that solution is we can come in, we can maybe do a little bit of work on the property for you. I own my own construction company, so I can come in, I can do the work for you, we can get paid on the back end so we can work out a deal that way. I'll list it for you, I'll control that part of the transaction for you, make sure that your fees and all of that are really good on that end. We'll take care of the construction for you, then we get it sold and get you that higher number. But it's going to take a little bit more time. So which one do you want? Want time? You want money?

[A]

I love it. I love it. I do a version of the same thing. But what you were, what you were essentially doing when you asked me what I wanted was you were trying to figure out which solution makes the most sense. Right. If you're Saying if you're saying you need to move quickly, then you're thinking as an investor, and if you're saying, I have all the time in the world and my house looks in, my house is in great shape, then you have an option as an agent to list that property. And I think that that's what investors need to learn is like, your job isn't to sign your contract on your next deal. Your job is to figure out what does that seller need? What do they really need? Because they're obviously going to hold something back. Right? Because they, they think, they think that we're here to, to swindle them and get this, this best deal possible. Right. And so they're holding these cards close to the chest. But as you ask questions, you can start to figure that out and you can start to present a solution solution that actually works for them. And I think what you're saying is, as a licensed agent, I now have more options to help somebody than somebody who is not a licensed agent.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Because all they can do is make a cash offer or maybe do something from a creative financing aspect, but they can't list the property and they can't do some of these other things. And so I do think that licensed agents have a superpower, but I don't know that they all know how to use it. So you did your first flip. About how many flips did you do in a given year and for how long did that last?

[C]

So our first year, 2019, we did exactly 10 flips. Wow. Yeah, so we did 10 our very first year. So that $60,000 kind of gave us a little confidence. You know, we built a little process out and then we bought our. Our second property. And then after the second one, we had the opportunity to pick up three more. So. So we were running four at a time right after our first one. And so by June of that year, because we picked up our first in January, by June, we'd completed like five or six. And then it kind of kept snowballing from there until our highest year, we did 21.

[B]

Oh, my God, that just gives me so much anxiety. I can't even think about that. But it's awesome. I mean, it's incredible. But can you tell us a little bit about them, Chauncey? Like, how much were these deals? What were you paying for them? How. How were you financing them? And how big of the renovation were you doing? Because you were doing so much volume.

[C]

When we first started, we were buying in the. The high ones, low twos, and then we were doing around like $60,000 renovations and selling in the. The mid threes to high threes. We continue to progress, and obviously here in the Dallas Fort Worth area, so did the prices.

[B]

It doesn't exist anymore.

[C]

And so now we're acquiring pretty much all across the board. But I would say that our sweet spot is acquiring somewhere in the threes, doing around $150,000 renovation and selling in, you know, sevens, high sixes or sevens.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Like, one deal that I just completed, we were able to pick it up at 405. We did $190,000 or so renovation, and it sold at 860.

[B]

Wow. Amazing.

[A]

So those numbers, the original numbers, the purchasing, the ones renovate for about 50 to 60, selling the threes, that's about what my market is now. And it seems like you're. You're focused more on a higher price point purchase. Is that the same home that you were buying when prices were different, or are you specifically looking for a higher end type of deal?

[C]

So our goal is not necessarily to buy a house at a particular price point. We always like to look for houses that are standouts, that when on the market, they have something cool or quirky about them. So whether it's the layout, it's something architectural about them, it's the lot, and it just always tends to be around that price point. But realistically, the specs of the homes that we're buying right now are about the same as they were when we first started back in 2019. The prices are just so much more expensive.

[B]

I like this approach. I just have to say, I think I like the idea of looking for something different. In my opinion, though, like, there is a part where it goes too far. Right. Like, how quirky are we talking?

[C]

Nothing crazy, but I just refuse to do just standard gray or white walls with like, I just, I need something interesting. We go for large skylights, cool entrances, you know, funny, you know, layouts. We do a lot of, you know, sunken living rooms.

[B]

A lot of very 70s. Yeah.

[C]

Yes, yes. And we keep those elements where most flippers would go in and probably try to make everything, you know, look like everything else on the market. We find the houses with old character and we try to preserve it.

[B]

I assume it limits a little bit who you sell to, but are those people more interested then, like, you get people who are, like, really passionate about the homes because there's something that they get attached to?

[C]

Yes, correct. So, so essentially my marketing background, even, you know, just doing marketing online will tell you that your job as a marketer is to create an offer that's so irresistible that the consumer can't not buy. They feel stupid for not buying it. Right. And to almost create raving fans to your product. And that's kind of the approach that we take. And so yeah, we, we are normally getting multiple offers, but we're not getting 15. We may get three or four, but those three or four people, the house and the one that ultimately ends up going under contract will do anything to make sure that they stay under contract because they know they can't find another product like ours.

[B]

So much good stuff here from Chauncey, but we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

[D]

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[C]

Yeah. Yeah, we have some rentals out in East Texas, so we have a portfolio of 17 rentals in East Texas. But what I found here in Texas is that it's very difficult to cash flow anything in the Dallas Fort Worth market simply because taxes and insurance is so expensive on top of acquisition costs. So the market that we're in is like Texarkana. Tyler Longview I'm actually from Texarkana, so you're able to buy properties there for really cheap. A lot of people rent forever There, and you'll get, you know, good cash flow, 500, $700 a month. But the problem is the value of those houses. They don't increase. So, you know, you're cash flowing. But if you go to sell it 10 years later, you're lucky if, you know, the value has gone up $20,000 or so. So I'm not really hardcore interested in the building of rentals. We really like to leverage, doing things that get us a lot of capital in hand and then taking that and kind of, you know, investing in other outlets.

[A]

So it sounds like you used your market expertise kind of as an agent to understand where I can buy for cash flow and where I can buy to increase my return so that you can strategically buy rental properties. But it sounds like the flipping business is what's really generating the income. But the market changed, the price points shifted, and that means risk shifted. Is there anything else that you did do, or have done to help you mitigate the risk and the change of the market that that has happened over the 2025, 2026 market? Because a lot of people fell on their face in 2025. So how are you staying profitable?

[C]

Absolutely. So really excited about this new kind of model that we built out. And it's our turnkey model, where we essentially are operators. So instead of going in and actually owning the properties, we have clients that are liquid, typically at least $150,000 or so, and they are interested in getting a return on their money through flipping, but they don't have anything except for the money. And instead of doing what a typical flipper would do, which is take their money and then go and buy a flip and then give them a fixed return on it instead, we're actually. We've built out all of the verticals around flipping houses. So you've got to find it, you got to fund it, you got to fix it, you got to furnish it, and then you got to flip it, Right? So I own all of those parts of the transaction. So we're sourcing the deals. We are the lender, we broker out money, and then we have our own commercial line of credit that we loan out. We own the construction company. I have the staging inventory. I, because of the real estate brokerage that I went to, I have, you know, hundreds of agents underneath me. So we're listing the property. So essentially we're able to go to our clients and say, hey, I've got this house. I've got it for, you know, you can pick it up for $200,000. Here's the scope of work. It's going to cost approximately xyz. It's accurate because I'm. I own that part of the process. Here's the design, you know, here's everything that has to do with. Here's the average days on market, here's the architecture, rv. And so your potential profit when it sells will be xyz. Do you want to take it down or not? And if so, then we start that process, and I'm making money in every single one of the steps of that process that person would have otherwise had to gone out, find a house, get a lender, find a gc, hire a designer, hire a staging company, find a realtor. I'm all of those things for them, and I'm able to make six figures on each deal with zero money out of my pocket. And so I'm leveraging my skill set in house flipping to have now become an operator and built out a highly profitable business without me having to technically own the asset.

[B]

I mean, that sounds incredible, both from your perspective, but also from a flipper. If you're not a professional at this, it sounds like you're offering a lot, but if you're making six figures, what are the margins for the flipper?

[C]

It depends. But I mean, they're. They're typically making 20, 20%, 25% somewhere in there.

[B]

Okay, and. But are they, like, running the project? Are they doing.

[C]

No, they do nothing. They're completely hands off.

[B]

They do nothing.

[C]

They do nothing.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

They do absolutely nothing except for sign on the dotted line and acquire the property and sign when it closes.

[A]

So you're not worried about making money as the investor. You're worried about your company's making money all along the way. Is that correct?

[C]

Correct.

[A]

Okay, so walk me through kind of what that looks like from an investor standpoint. So what's a typical deal look like for you as the business owners and the investor?

[C]

They all look different because I own the different pieces of the process. There's no set fee for each part, if that makes sense. So some houses, if. If I'm able to acquire it really low, then I can front load it and I can make more money on the acquisition. So if I'm able to acquire a property that's worth 350,000 for 85,000, then obviously I can offload that to my client at maybe a 150. So now I've made a big chunk on the front end. Right. Versus a house that, you know, I'm. I'm not necessarily acquiring really, really Low, but I know it has extensive construction, then I can, can ultimately structure the deal where I'm making more money on the construction side or, you know, in the design. So. So there's no set numbers. We underwrite them differently. Every single house is completely different. But our goal is to make sure that our turnkey clients are coming back. So our goal is to make sure that they're making money. And so I'm going to structure the deal in a way that every time they're getting more money than they would in any other way in, you know, putting their money in the market in any way. And so as long as I can do that and they're not doing anything and they can call themselves a house flipper, they get the ego of being able to say, I'm an investor with, with being hands off, but then getting a 20, 25, sometimes up to 35% return on it, then they're happy as clams.

[B]

I'm just trying to understand the risk reward profile here because it's like other turnkey properties, right? Like normally, you know, if you go and buy a turnkey rental property, you're giving up some of your upside to lower your overall risk.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And that's kind of what this seems like. You're giving up some of your upside in a flip to lower your overall risk. So I'm just trying to understand what the risks are for the flipper. They're owning the property they're still liable for, for cost overruns. So those are important considerations for people who would consider this model.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. But, but, but the cost overruns aren't that we went over and you just have to pay it. It's. This is a decision that as a real estate investor, you need to make. And ultimately, when we are underwriting the, these, these properties, we are extremely conservative with our numbers. So we are calculating everything as if everything has to get fixed. We're talking all of the MEPs, everything cosmetic. So if there happens to be an overrun, then that's typically because we've seen some sort of upside. So the house across the street just went on the market and it has an extra bedroom. And we have the opportunity to convert a space here to a bedroom if you want to achieve that number. So then, then at that point, you get to make that decision. It's not just an arbitrary. Sorry, we went over, you got to pay this extra money in construction. Like it's not that type of thing. So they get what the full scope of work is before they even make the decision to acquire the property, and they know what all of that looks like.

[A]

And it sounds funny, but like you said, I'm making more than them. But you're making more than them across several different businesses.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

And this is all money that an investor pays to other companies. Yeah, this is what do anyway. Like, everybody always makes more money than me. It's just what I get to walk away at the end of the day. I pay my contractors, I pay the title companies, I pay the real estate agents, I pay the project managers, and then I get to keep what's left. The process doesn't change. It's just that in this particular niche, in this particular market, you own all these businesses. So you're mitigating your risk by taking your profit margin through your companies and not having to own the real estate asset. And you're still making money flipping houses. You're just not the one owning the asset. And you get to offer, essentially, a turnkey product to your seller. That's a pretty cool perspective. Vertical integration is, I think, important to most businesses, but it's an intimidating thing to take on. Like, how did you take that bite of the elephant to where you started to own different parts of the process that weren't the typical Buy the house, renovate the house.

[C]

Yeah. So it actually started with this mastermind that I'd gone to for real estate, and they had us do this exercise where we wrote the word realtor in the middle, circled it, and then we had to come up with who all, in a transaction, made. Made money. And at the end of the day, I think we came up with, like, 45 different people in a real estate transaction make money from something that a realtor brings. So then when we found ourselves on a television show flipping houses and getting more and more demand for needing to get more houses, we were like, man, I don't really want to buy more houses. How can we leverage what we know? How can we. And I just had this thought, and I told my husband, I'm like, we did this exercise when I was a realtor. Let's see, all of the different parts of flipping a house. How many people are making money off of that? And instead of, you know, us going out and always buying more houses, why can't we just leverage our skill set in this and leverage our expertise and make money off of all of the different parts? Because ultimately, that's what people have the most problems with, is implementation. So if I can implement things for people that I've already become an expert at and I can just make money, then Then that's how I'll do it. So it really was kind of born from again, this idea that I learned being a realtor and then out of necessity of, you know, just continuing to need to buy more houses on the television show. And right at the tail end of that, and I'm like, I'm tired of having to buy more houses. We finished and wrapped production with the show, and we were like, let's try this turnkey thing. Enough people now know us. We have the credibility we have, you know, the processes built out. And so then we just started doing what we were already doing. So then it was, it was pretty simple. We were already sourcing deals, so we just made that a legit process. We already understood hard money lending, so then we looked at what it would take to get a line of credit that we could loan out and broker for other hard money lenders. We already had our own construction company, so that was already set in stone. But then we, you know, got our tax resale certificate, and then we set up accounts with all of the wholesale suppliers for the materials. We then bought, you know, the staging inventory, and set that business up. So it was things that we were already doing. I think you start to get into the weeds with vertical integration when you're trying to reinvent the wheel instead of looking at what you're already doing, who you're paying money to, and then seeing how you can kind of bring that in house, which is ultimately what we did.

[B]

It makes total sense. I mean, this money is going out. You might as well, you know, get some of it if you have the capacity to do it. It's impressive. Super impressive that you're able to run all these businesses. Did you start all of them? Did you acquire them or is all this from scratch?

[C]

No, we started.

[B]

Wow. That's.

[C]

We started them all from scratch.

[B]

Very cool.

[C]

Just one by one. And. And they're, they. They're not, you know, running independently. I'm not marketing all of them. So it doesn't.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[C]

It doesn't seem daunting like.

[B]

Yeah, it's not like you're. You're doing staging for someone else. You do it for yourself. Right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes total sense. So you're marketing turnkey and then everything else flows from there. Yeah, correct. That makes sense.

[C]

And occasionally, you know, we get the one offs where someone just wants, you know, a retail construction job. We'll take it. You know, I do design jobs for other people, but that's not my focus and that's not what I market, but I do have the ability to do that. So as the market changes, I'm in the position to to make money in a ton of different ways when other people aren't.

[A]

Well, I commend you. You're braver than me because the amount of times I've thought, man, I should just start my own construction company because I'm running all these crews anyway and just haven't pulled the trigger to do it. You are my inspiration that that this is absolutely possible, especially with the level of experience.

[C]

Totally doable, dude. It's so doable. It really is.

[A]

All right, Chauncey, thank you so much for coming on the BiggerPockets podcast and sharing a literal wealth of experience. I wish we had more time to be able to dive into all of the things that you have experienced and have experience in in the real estate world. Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you for having me, guys.

[B]

Thanks Chauncey.

[A]

Also, guys, if you learned something from this episode, then I recommend you checking out BiggerPockets podcast episode 1160. That's back from August 2025, where Dave and I both shared some of our favorite cheap and easy methods for sourcing great deals. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets podcast. We'll see you on the next episode.

[B]

Thank you all for listening to the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico, Content and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. the content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk, so use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future future results. Bigger Pockets, LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast. Attention Passive Real Estate Investors. Make sure you have the Passive Pocket Summit on your calendar. Better yet, plan on attending IT in Denver, Colorado from April 30th to May 2nd. This conference is built exclusively for the LP or limited partner. It's a great place to network and talk current deals and current strategies for accredited investors investing in real estate deals right now. Go to passive pockets.com forward/summit for all the details and use a coupon code podcast to save you $50. Hope to see you in Denver.