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- [00:00]
A
I remember my dad when I was 11, 10 or 11 years old, he crumpled up a hundred dollar bill and threw it at me and said, here, you're gonna need this when you're living on the streets with your mother one day. I got it from all angles, and most of the time it comes from the people closest to you. Try to chop you down.
- [00:24]
B
It took me a very long time to get rid of people in my life that weren't cheering me on and that weren't aligned with what I wanted to do. But you want to be surround, surrounded by people that are in your corner and your greatest fans and your biggest cheerleaders. Welcome to the Build Pod. Mike C. He really is the goat of podcasting.
- [00:50]
A
The only way you fail is if you quit. You know, you don't keep going until I'm plucked from this planet. I'm going to figure out how far I can take this thing.
- [00:57]
B
Welcome back to the Bill Pod, where authenticity trumps authority. Now, I am so excited about today's guest because. Because he really is the goat of podcasting. He hosts a huge podcast himself, and, I mean, he's just a force in a presence. He is his own Persona, his own brand. Welcome to the Build Pod. Mike C. Woo. I am so happy to have you on.
- [01:20]
A
Thank you for having me. Thank you, Mara. Appreciate it. I. I'm very thankful and humble to be here.
- [01:26]
B
Well, I. I mean, we're just gonna. We're gonna have, like an authentic conversation. We'll talk about what you don't want to talk about, what you do want to talk about. But, you know, podcasting, which is you've been doing this for how long?
- [01:38]
A
Six years, I guess now? 2019. I started.
- [01:41]
B
Now, serious question, before you started podcasting, who's.
- [01:46]
A
Who is Mike C. Rented a mortgage operation, and from Philadelphia to Miami, I was running a company and scaled it to the point where I was working maybe three hours a week in it and then playing golf and networking.
- [02:02]
B
Yeah.
- [02:02]
A
You know, but I hated. I hated the business, though. And I was making a lot of money, and the money became a trap.
- [02:08]
B
Right.
- [02:08]
A
That's what led me into my next journey.
- [02:10]
B
So what is something that you learned while doing mortgages that you never. That you didn't know coming into that space?
- [02:18]
A
Well, you know, when I first got in, it was like a survival mode. I need to make money. Right. I started as a loan officer, and then I just. It was all about money and transactions, money and transactions. And then I started as I went through, you know, you have people come and go, turnover Culture was terrible, and I just didn't like it. And I said, you know what? There's got to be an answer to this. So I started hanging around people that had built companies and reading books and started realizing the importance of relationships and serving, being a servant leader and culture and how important these things were and how important your employees personal goals were.
- [02:54]
B
Right.
- [02:55]
A
And how they had to align with the companies for things to work out. There's a lot of lessons in there, for sure.
- [03:01]
B
So you ended up. I mean, you didn't really love what you were doing, which I think is important. You have to love what you do. And then I think culture follows it. And then finally you were like, I'm just out. I'm not doing this anymore.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah, I hit 40 and I felt trapped. And I was just like, man. And it was, you know, the mortgage business is weird. Like, if rates go up because of market conditions or economy or whatever, you could lose 80% of your business and not be able to do anything about it. And I didn't like that lack of control. And I also. It was always a 911 with everything. It seemed like, you know.
- [03:30]
B
Yeah.
- [03:30]
A
A lot of real estate agents, I hate to say this, but they're living paycheck to paycheck. Everything is on the line for them. And if that deal doesn't close when they think it should close, they get pissed at you. And it might not even. It might be something you're waiting for from them. It might be an appraiser that's supposed to get you something. You're waiting. You can't. You got the keys to the transaction. You're not going to clear the loan to close until you have everything, because you got to protect yourself. And you were always made the bad guy. And then when you did a good job, nobody ever really showed appreciation. And I was just like this. I'm not living my life like this.
- [04:01]
B
Yeah, forget it. Yeah. So then at 40, which I love that you said at 40, because I feel like sometimes people feel, you know, by 40, you know, you kind of have to stick with what you're doing. But that's not true. Especially in this day and age, you can literally reinvent yourself. So now you're 40 years old, you decide, you know what? This is not for me. And six years ago, I mean, I think that was where podcasting kind of started. You know, it was starting to creep up and everything, and people really got into podcasting. What made you. I mean, that's a. That's. That's a huge transition you went from mortgages. I mean, that's two opposite ends of the spectrum.
- [04:34]
A
Yeah. You know, in the mortgage game, it's very hard to differentiate yourself. It's all about who's got the best rates, closing costs, close the fastest, whatever. And I. I just didn't like that lack of differentiation. And you mentioned authenticity. I just. I just wanted to create something where I found out who I was, strengths, weaknesses, insecurities, passions, and be able to lean into it unapologetically. And I got around some of the greatest mentors on the planet. I started reading their books. I became friends with them, hanging out with them, just seeing what they've done. And I started to realize the importance of getting known.
- [05:08]
B
Right.
- [05:09]
A
How? Like, how can anybody do anything with you? How can you help anybody if nobody knows who you are and then if you don't know who you are? So the first part is, like, really identifying, who am I? Who do I want to be? What does that person think about? What does that person say and speak? Like, what do they do? What actions do they take? And just as important, who are they around?
- [05:26]
B
Yeah.
- [05:27]
A
What's their environment look like? And I started Designing this at 40 some years old, and it's evolved since then even. I'm 49 now. I was just over 40 when I. When I got into this. So what happened? I started really leaning into who I am. And then one of my mentors said, dude, you got to get known globally.
- [05:45]
B
Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
I'm like, for what? I got a successful business here regionally. Like, what do I need to get known globally for? I'm not doing international business. He said, trust me, you will create an attraction model. Because right now you're in Chase mode. 99 of people are in chase mode, and you cannot be fulfilled. You cannot reach your potential in chase mode. He's like, you got to create this attraction model. And what this will do for you is it'll make everything easier that you do going forward. And this ecosystem that you're about to build, because I can see it coming, he said, is going to benefit from this attraction model you create. And I'm like, that makes sense. How do I do that? How do I get on globally? He said, go get on podcasts.
- [06:21]
B
Bingo. So talk a little bit. Because, I mean, I was in the same genre or that same. You know, where I was coming. I mean, I'm in. I currently still am in insurance, but for somebody that wants to kind of jump into something else. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of the ecosystem in the community? And why, why? That's a first step for so many people.
- [06:43]
A
Yeah. First of all, we all underestimate what we can achieve.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah.
- [06:46]
A
What we're actually capable of. There was a story about an intelligence officer that supposedly, and I don't know if aliens are real, but he spoke to an extraterrestrial. And one of the things that really stuck out to me about this was he said, the extraterrestrial said to him, you human beings really, truly don't know how much you're capable of. And I was like, wow, that's powerful. Even if it's real or it's not real. Right. But just the lesson. Right. That. And then I started to think, okay, so if that's the case, let me see how far I can take this thing right now. One thing I figured out was you mentioned the people.
- [07:18]
B
Yeah.
- [07:18]
A
You can't do everything by yourself. The most amazing things you can do are going to take people and they're going to take the right people. So for me, I like building authentic relationships, going deep and looking for ways to serve people. And eventually when you do that over and over and over again, you start to create this network of people that understand, hey, this person's here for me. He's championing me. He looked to serve me first before trying to do anything for himself. And so that combined with going on over seven to ten podcasts a week for five years straight, over 1200 podcast appearances, just built and blew up this amazing thing called that one Network. Now I have people and I don't care what they do. I don't care if they're in insurance, health and wellness, real estate, doesn't matter. I'm just looking for good hearted servant leaders. Because if they have that part, what they do can add to the mix.
- [08:08]
B
Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. I mean, that's, I believe in that 100% serving people, that servitude where you work for people, people don't work for you. And then from there you create this incredible community which you have. And I know that you're very big into connecting people, whether you get something from it or not. And I do believe that when you, you know, for me, one thing that I've learned is income is the outcome. That can't be your objective. There has to be something more than that. So now, so now, you know, just flipping backwards. So now you're in your 40s, how many people kind of doubted you and were like, oh, you can't do this. You have to stay where you're comfortable. What you Know, how much backlash did you get from. From people around you?
- [08:48]
A
Great question, because I did experience that. Right. And most of the time, it comes from the people closest to you. You see, people give up on their dreams, their own dreams. They can't visualize for themselves what you're doing and what your vision is, so they'll try to chop you down. Right. I'd have people throwing digs at me, like, why don't you go do your podcast? You do a podcast? When I started going and traveling and things like, you know, I had to be away from my family. So, you know, we had to adjust that in our relationship, in, you know, my house. But I got it from all angles, and you just have to be so committed and clear on what you're trying to do and. And surround yourself with the right people that champion you and lift you up and encourage you. Otherwise, it'll suppress you and you'll pull you back and you won't go where you're supposed to go. And. And that's big for me. And I. I started to realize who I needed to keep in my environment and who I needed to exit from my environment.
- [09:38]
B
Bingo. I. I think that's a huge point that you made, is that we keep these people around us. The. I call them the. There's a book, actually, about, you know, the energy. The energy bus, or these. Vampire. They're vampire. What are they? Energy. I couldn't think of it. Yeah. And they. They suck out all the energy. But in reality, what they're doing is they're jealous. It's jealousy. And all of those people. I had to make a definitive choice. It took me a very long time to get rid of people in my life that weren't cheering me on and that weren't aligned with what I wanted to do, whether they. You know, whether they thought podcasting was great. But you want to be surrounded by people that are in your corner and your greatest fans and your biggest cheerleaders. So it is hard. How many people did you have to get rid of?
- [10:21]
A
Oh, tons. You know, and. And it's not. It's not that they're bad people. Right. It's just that you're not aligned, and you're not supposed to carry on life at this point with them. And you. You know, when you keep the wrong people around you, it's not that they hold you back. It's also. You hold them back.
- [10:35]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [10:36]
A
And I've seen people advance once I cut off relationship with them. I've seen them advance in their own life. You know, and, you know, I've had. I had people say, who do you. Who are you to have a podcast? Right. I've had people say that to me before or, you know, different weird things like that. And I, you know what I do? I push the pedal down harder when I hear that, you know, I stored in my tank, my fuel tank, and use it as fuel and convert it into energy.
- [11:00]
B
Yeah.
- [11:01]
A
Most people keep things in their trunk.
- [11:02]
B
Yeah.
- [11:03]
A
Slows them down and weighs them down. I don't do that. And my whole life, I realized that I've been doing this from the upbringing that I've had, the brokenness that I came from. I realized subconsciously, my whole life, I've always been putting things in my tank instead of my trunk.
- [11:14]
B
Yes. I love that. I love that analogy. I think we talked about it, too, when I did your podcast, which you so gratefully let me. Let me come on. But I love that analogy because I think that's where me and you are very similar, that there's always going to be shit that happens, negative things that happen. You can do one of two things. You know, you can become the victim, or you can use that to ignite your fire, to propel you forward. And a lot of people use it as the victim mentality or the woe is me or, you know, why me? Type of thing. And taking that energy and making it, you know, it's the same thing. I love it. If you tell me I can't do something, I'm going to do it, and I'm going to do it times 10.
- [11:51]
A
Well, and I think you also have to put your stake in the ground and stand ten toes down.
- [11:55]
B
Right.
- [11:55]
A
Like, I wrote a book called Rocket Fuel Convert. Setbacks become unstoppable. Because I wanted the public to know that you could not come to me with this stuff unless you wanted to fuel me. You're just going to fuel me. So I stuck my stake in the ground, and I don't have the book here, but, like, anybody want to check it out? It's.
- [12:09]
B
And I'll put it in there. I'll put it in the notes.
- [12:11]
A
Okay, thank you. It's got stories in there of how this all played out, and. But I really wanted to publicly profess that if you try to disturb what I'm trying to do, all you're doing is adding fuel to the fire, and it's going to be bigger than you ever could imagine. So you might as well not even do that.
- [12:26]
B
Yeah. And I know I love the haters. If you don't have a whole bunch of haters, then you're not doing. You're not making it in life. Those haters really do propel my energy to go forward because those are the ones that I'm looking at in front of me, not back of me. I'm like, okay, you're the goal, you're the target. And I'm going to show you that not only can I do it it, but I can do it times 10 and make it that much better. So I love those.
- [12:47]
A
Well, there's some important distinction here, though. So early on, when you're on a journey, it's important to use that fuel. Okay. But that fuel is not a really clean octai octane fuel. It's kind of dirty. Yeah. So one thing I realized was when I started getting to a certain level, I was like, that fuel is not going to take me to where I want to go anymore. So what is my new fuel? And my new fuel, it became my visions and the things that I would put out in the future that I wanted to cause and create. And that's like a higher octane fuel that propels you way faster, way further. And so for me, that those things now, like, they don't even, like, play a part in it. People say stuff, I just let it roll off. It just. It just bounces off. Now I have such big visions and where I want to go and what I want to build. That that's my high octane fuel because my engine has been refined.
- [13:33]
B
Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, it makes total sense. And it's funny because as you're doing well, you watch, you can see in the rear view mirror what they're doing. Like, they're in the background knowing. And they want to be on your podcast now. I'm sure, I'm sure they want to get on. How many people have come back to you and said, hey, man, listen, can I kind of get on there? Maybe I was a little wrong.
- [13:52]
A
Of course, early on, I've asked people that were bigger names, like, come on my show, how many downloads you have? I'm like, okay, just wait. I'm not even gonna answer them. Just wait. Because I didn't have any downloads early on, Right. Like I said, just wait. They'll want to come on. And so now, you know, now when I DM people, I DM people every day on Instagram, constantly. People I want to connect with, whether I want to have them on my show or just get to know them, build them into the network, and Everybody answers my DMs now, you know, I'm talking to celebrities, I'm talking to athletes, I'm talking to billionaires. Like, it's just wild now. But early on it wasn't like that necessarily, you know. And so, yeah, for sure changes, but you got to keep going. That's the key. One thing about me is that in morning time, you know, everybody wakes up. Different feelings and emotions in the mornings, different states. When I'm in a situation where some adversities going on or I just don't feel like something, I just tell myself, keep going, dude, keep going. Because I know if you keep going, everything always works out.
- [14:47]
B
Absolutely. I, I agree. I can, I'm the same thing. Like, I can compartmentalize. That's pro, that's definitely a big trick, is if you can compartmentalize and focus on what you have going on. Like there's always going to be over here, always. I don't care. I mean, I walked in this morning, I have a whole bunch of going on in my life right now, but I'm here and I'm intentional and focused on you. So whatever's going on over here, it really doesn't matter because the goal is to on what's going on here. But I, you said something really important and I've heard Alex from Mosey talk about this. The power of really working your business. And you were saying early on, you know, you reached out to people and you still do today, even with a successful podcast. Can you talk a little bit about that? How, you know, regardless, you're still working your business and you're reaching out to people that you might have thought that were out of your league.
- [15:32]
A
Well, remember what the alien said. We have no idea what we're capable of. Right. So if I get to a certain level, whether it's notoriety, business level, success, financially, whatever, is that really as far as I'm going to take it? So that's not the case for me. I know that's not the case. So for me, I, I learned this from some great mentors I had. I pretend every morning when I wake up that nobody's ever heard of me.
- [15:55]
B
I love that.
- [15:56]
A
And so that keeps me on my toes and keeps me going. And you know, every single day I have 5 to 815 minute networking calls with perfect strangers.
- [16:05]
B
I, I hope the viewers are listening to this. I really do. It's so important that that's why people fail is because they, they give up way too soon. And they'll tell, anybody will tell you this hard work is going to beat out Talent every single time. It's why people fail. It's because they won't keep going in the minute. They're not experience experiencing success because we're in an age of instant gratification. They give up. But I love what you said. I mean, you're art, six years in the business, a ton of followers, and yet you're still working your business, you're still working out, still working it to where you're, you're reaching out, networking. That, that just speaks volumes about who you are as a person and your character as well as your business that you're building.
- [16:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've been built into this, you know, it's been, it's been an evolution, you know, and I, I, you know, there's things that go through my head to Myers sometimes where I'm like, man, I should be so much further along, but I think that we're right where we're supposed to be. But I do have that thought sometimes. Like, man, like, yeah, because you make mistakes, you know, and you got learning lessons that you have to go through and money goes, comes and goes, and you know, you're, I'm just like, man, I wish I would have known better. But if you would have known better early on, you got to give yourself grace. Because if you would have known early, earlier on you knew better, you would have made different decisions and, and you would have been a different place, of course. But if you didn't know, what are you supposed to do? So you have to get this knowledge as you go along and start implementing that knowledge into your life, and then you start to see. But by the way, I, I have a firm belief that once you hit 40 and then into 50, there's times where people have had life like they had these lessons and their graph was just like this, and then it was down a little bit and up a little bit, down a little bit, and it was just gradually going up. But when you hit in the 40s and the 50s, there's a chance, if you keep going, that you have a rocket ship trajectory. And that's what I firmly believe. And I've seen it. You know, you've seen some of the most famous people, most successful business people out there, they didn't get that until they hit 50.
- [17:59]
B
Yeah, I, I would 100 agree with you. My uncle used to tell me before I turned 40, which I can't even believe that I admitted that I'm in my 40s, but my uncle used to tell me in my 30s, he used to say, mara, I'M telling you, when you hit 40, something is gonna happen. And all of a sudden, like, all of these, like, non things that, like, things are not going to matter and you're going to skyrocket. Watch. You're going to. I'm telling you, he's like, your personality changes, your demeanor changes. You have more life, you have more life lessons. You know what you want, you know what you don't want. It is going to be a complete game changer. And I promise you, When I turn 40, everything changed. Everything. Confidence changed, my ability to grow changed, Relationships changed everything.
- [18:43]
A
Yeah. It's funny you say that because I had readers on Today when I was reading this morning, and I'm like, man, I actually just stored on my Instagram. I said, man, did these things make me look old. I don't feel old. I still feel in my, like, 30s, maybe early 30s. My wife was telling me a story about a lady that she's a real estate agent. She was telling me about a lady that she was working with. She was 46 and she was going on and I said, 46. That sounded old to me when you first said that, like it was an old lady.
- [19:09]
B
Yeah.
- [19:09]
A
And I'm 49, so I don't, I don't feel that it's funny you say that.
- [19:12]
B
I, I just think it's a different age now. Before, remember when we, like, we were in our 20s, we're thinking 30s. Oh, wow, that's 40s. Oh, man. 50s. Oh. But now people, I think I, I think people are living longer. They. But really in your 40s is when you really take on the Persona of who you are inside and out. And you touched on that at the beginning. It's knowing who you are inside before you can do anything else and really believing in yourself.
- [19:38]
A
Yeah. And. And a lot of people don't lean into that because they don't know the how. Right. Like, how. How could that happen? I don't know how to do that. You don't, you don't get the how. You don't get the how until you commit to something. Once you commit to something, the house starts to appear because your attention is directed by the commitment intention that you set. And otherwise your, your attention is directed by outside sources. And then you live in a resentful life.
- [20:02]
B
Yeah.
- [20:03]
A
So, yeah, the how the house stops a lot of people and I, I just, for me, I don't know a lot of things, you know, but I, I know one thing. I'll commit to something and then the house starts to appear.
- [20:13]
B
Yeah, Yeah. A lot of people are getting ready to get ready. Me too. I'm executing. I might have to go back later and fix some things, but I'm. I. It doesn'. It doesn't matter how we're going to get there. I just know we're going to get there. What is this you caught? You talk about Quantum Expansion. What is Quantum expansion? What does that mean? It's a big word.
- [20:32]
A
I have a podcast agency where we book high level people on top podcasts. Right? And I started having this network expand drastically. And I knew the people and they knew me, but they didn't know each other. And I was like, this is unacceptable. We got to figure out a way to centralize this thing so people can start connecting faster without me being, being in the middle of it all the time, necessarily. And so I started a WhatsApp group. It's got almost 600 members in it now. We network every day, we do meetups. And then the people came to me, some of the members, and they were like, hey, listen, this is great, but we want to go deeper. We want to have events, we want to get together and go deeper and have access to your network and your expertise and, and, and access to proximity. Put something together, we'll invest in you. And I was like, okay. So we put this thing called Quantum Expansion together, which is a performance group of expanding all areas of your life. So there's masterminds out there that focus mainly on networking and building business. Right. I wanted to have something to where we really expand all areas of our life. So Quantum Expansion is a group of high level operators and we come together weekly. We come together, we talk. We have a WhatsApp group between us too. We chat every day and support each other, but we also do four events per year in amazing locations and we get together and bond and we do quantum and neuroscience exercises and activities to really expand every area of our life.
- [21:48]
B
I love that. And it's all about personal development, but, but it's also about connecting like minded individuals. I, I'm in the group. I need to, I need to be active in the group, but I see the different things that are going on. And you have people from all walks of life in a good way on there. I see them all the time talking to each other back and forth, which is phenomenal that you even put that together with a servant leadership. Okay, so let's talk about podcasting. I really, I'm very interested in this. So podcasting, I truly believe is going to be the, the wave. Everybody's going to jump on it. Tv, you can see already it's going out. How has podcasting really helped you financially in your life? And what advice would you give to. Well, let's start there and then I'll ask you the second part.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, it allowed me to become a better communicator, better speaker.
- [22:34]
B
Yeah.
- [22:34]
A
Better storyteller. Right. So early on I was going on podcasts seven to ten a week, five years straight. Right. Been on over 1200. I was going on as the first guest on many shows. I was going on non aligned shows, I would say, like women's shows, where they were talking about menopause and perimenopause and I didn't even know what that was. And I was, I was putting the reps.
- [22:55]
B
It's fun.
- [22:55]
A
And then the show started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and notoriety, omnipresence. See, what I did was I was one of the first people to start clipping podcasts and blasting it all over social media and it created omnipresence. And people would see me explain what
- [23:10]
B
clipping is for people that don't understand
- [23:12]
A
podcast and put it up as reels, TikToks, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever, and just blasting it everywhere. And then people would say to me, man, I see you everywhere. I can't get you off my social media feed. And I'm like, oh, it's working. And they were like, oh, it's getting on my nerves. I'm like, good. And I would just keep posting and then I would always ask the host when I would go on a show for the raw content. And that's an asset, by the way. So. And I would say, and I'll do it with you too, like, let's promote your show. I want to promote your show too. So they would give me the content and I get my team to clip it up into little pieces, like little short videos, and then blast it everywhere. So it creates omnipresence. If people do not know who you are, you cannot help people. It's. It's impossible.
- [23:50]
B
There you go.
- [23:51]
A
It's created omnipresence. It created a living organism, almost like a brand that's out there and massive network expansion. Right? Like I have access to people that I never could have imagined I'd have access to. So beyond the exposure, most people think podcasting you're going to get exposure and leverage someone else's audience. To me, that's icing on the cake. I want the host, I want the relationship with the host, I want to serve the host. I want to connect them. I want to help them go further, faster. And then I also want omnipresence, and I don't ever trust the host to. To do everything that they could do to get that podcast out. I. I want to take responsibility on that. So I'll. I'll help promote the show, and I'll help get it out there, because I want to take responsibility. So. So, yeah, it's been. It's been great, man.
- [24:39]
B
Which is great, because these are, like, very helpful steps, especially with podcasting being very new. It's not new, but it's gonna be guaranteed, mark my words. Because syndicated TV is going out, and you can see it everywhere. Everybody's opening up a podcast. Now. I don't think everybody can be a podcast host or everyone should have a podcast, but I think your steps. Give me three steps to performing or getting your podcast. Rolling. Three.
- [25:04]
A
First one is three easy steps, right? Most people don't ever start, right? You got to get a clear.
- [25:09]
B
Yes. They talk about it.
- [25:10]
A
You get a clear. You want it to be about. And whether you want to do virtual or in studio, get real clear on the vision, and it can change. It's not set in stone, but you have to have clarity, and you have to start moving in the direction of that vision, Start taking steps, right? You got to figure out, like, okay, what kind of equipment do I need? What kind of mic should I get? Camera, Virtual studio. Where's the studio? Am I going to tour the country? I've toured the country with my podcast. I've gone to different cities and rented amazing studios. I just get a vision, and then I start figuring it out and moving in that direction. So start clarity. Clear picture number two, Start moving in the direction of that and start taking action. And then number three, start reaching out to people that you couldn't like, beyond what you think is possible to have as a guest on your show. Just start reaching out DM people and. And those are the first three things I would do.
- [26:00]
B
Yeah. And I think you'd be surprised. So many people are more open to helping than ever before. I reached out when I first started my podcast, and I was reluctant because I didn't have. I mean, nobody knew who it was. I'm still not even a big podcast. I'm getting up there. The show is doing really well. But I remember one of the first people that I dmed was Julia Hart, and she's a pretty big deal. And she immediately DM me back, and she was like, I love the name. And I'm happy to help you. So you never know people. I, I think people, it's not going to cost them anything. Plus you promote them, so it's not really a big deal to, to help somebody else out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. What about appearing on people's podcasts?
- [26:38]
A
What most people don't understand, some of the most well known people are the most insecure people. And so when they get asked to come on a podcast, they say yes before you would even think they would because they're insecure. They're just like, oh, somebody's reaching out to me. And, and they actually have more time than you think they do. Yeah, people pretend they're, you know, unsuccessful. People pretend they're busy. Yeah, they got so much going on.
- [27:02]
B
You can make, you can make 30 minute time slots. You can definitely do it. Anyone can.
- [27:06]
A
Yeah. And, and, and they're getting exposure. You're giving them something, they're not doing something for you necessarily. You're giving them exposure. Even though your show might not be big, you might create content for them. Right. And if you're, your following on social media isn't that big and you don't get a lot of views, you'll post it out there, get some views. But also they, you give them the content, they could put it out on their social media. Now they have content of them being interviewed, which adds to their perceived credibility and authority. So, yeah, so it's just a misconception a lot of people have. And you know, I never, I never shied away from it. Still to this day, like, I just reached out to Dane Cook, who's a comedian, he had a lot of movies out and all that. And I saw a post that he had and I just sent him an authentic message, said, hey man, you're, you're a good dude, man. You're helping somebody out. I love that post that you had. Love to connect and have you on the show sometime, get you some more exposure.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah.
- [27:55]
A
And he's like, sure, man, send me your number. We'll connect. Right. Most people won't even bother to reach
- [28:00]
B
out, easy as that. I know. I literally just DM'd Shelby Sapp yesterday. She's, you know, she's this new sales girl, cute little blonde girl, has a lot of great sales techniques. I literally within seconds DM me back like, okay, girl, here's my, you know, here's my email. Set it up. Yeah, of course, I mean, people, and it's free exposure. So I would tell anybody out There, like, go for it. What do you have to lose? You know, set a goal every day. Do you still do that? Yeah. You said you still do that. I do it too. I DM people or I'll email. I have X amount of people that I want to reach or a bucket list of people that I'd like to. To get on the podcast and then just kind of take it from there. You're not gonna look, it's a numbers game. It's sales. And if anyone understands anything about sales, you're counting the nose to get to the yeses. So somebody will go on your podcast.
- [28:42]
A
Well, and if you have a podcast, you should never, never, never turn down another podcast to go on. You should guess. You should guess more than you podcast.
- [28:50]
B
Agreed.
- [28:51]
A
Your own show.
- [28:52]
B
Yeah. Even if it's not aligned. Even if it's not aligned, I'll go on. I mean, obviously, if it's like something like Way Left that I don't know anything about, but for the most part, I don't think I've ever turned down a podcast. It doesn't matter how big the following was. I get on just for exposure to get into their audience.
- [29:06]
A
Yeah, because when you do that, more people will answer you. But not only that, it gets your podcast exposure.
- [29:12]
B
Yeah. No, it's so true.
- [29:14]
A
You know, and then. And then you'll start moving up the ranks with the shows that you can get on. Or if you get access to that one agency, for example, most people don't even know we exist. That's on me every single day. I pretend nobody's ever heard of us.
- [29:24]
B
Yeah.
- [29:25]
A
And when they. People hear about, oh, wait a minute, there's a shortcut. I can move further faster by having access to bigger shows. Somebody can just get me booked on it. I just have to show up and. And do the interview like that. That's the thing that starts to get this flywheel momentum going, and you get velocity. Then your show starts to pick up too.
- [29:44]
B
Absolutely. I love it. So where are you going with your shows?
- [29:48]
A
Well, I use my show mainly for other podcast hosts that I want to build relationship with, like yourself. I want to bring people into my network. I want them to experience my environment. So I have on my show top podcast hosts or people that have good podcasts or whatever. And then also my clients that at that one agency, I like to get them exposure. So I bring them show and then I'll mix in some. Some bigger names just to get more exposure credibility. So I just continue to do that. Like, that's my focus is really just to continue what we're doing with that.
- [30:17]
B
I love that. And you just keep going. All right. I'm gonna switch gears and have a little fun for you. So you're gonna tell me true or false? Okay. No. No motivational speaker answers. You gotta give me, like, real deal. All right. Most entrepreneurs quit too early. They were one decision away from breaking through. True or false? Oh.
- [30:35]
A
100. There's a. There's a chapter in there. The Think and grow rich. About three feet from gold. Three feet. Three feet from gold. And. And Greg Reed wrote a book called Three Feet from Gold based on that as well. 100. That's why I say keep going, dude. Every morning. Keep going, dude. Just keep going. So. And one more thing. You will go as far as you are committed. So if you're not going and you're quitting or you're not going to, just check your commitment level.
- [30:59]
B
Yes, absolutely. All right, next question. The podcast space is oversaturated. New shows have almost no chance of ever making it.
- [31:07]
A
False.
- [31:08]
B
False. 100. I agree with you. Mindset is more important than strategy and building a business.
- [31:15]
A
Yeah. I would say. 100. It's a foundation.
- [31:17]
B
I would agree.
- [31:18]
A
Because that other stuff comes after it. Because if you have a strategy in front of you but you aren't committed, as I just mentioned, you won't do what it takes.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah. Mindset is 80% of everything you do. I agree with that. 100%. Social media following is a vanity metric. It doesn't actually translate to revenue.
- [31:35]
A
It doesn't. Without certain things you can do with it. Right. Like for me, when I DM people, that matters. When they. When I DM people now, even early on, it didn't like, people would still answer me, but now they answer all the time because they. The first thing they do is check in your profile and they see how many followers you have, and then like three seconds, they make a decision to answer you.
- [31:52]
B
You. Yeah, absolutely. The entrepreneurship content world is more about selling dreams than teaching real skills.
- [32:00]
A
True.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah. Why do you say that?
- [32:04]
A
Well, most of the people that are doing it are good marketers or just have nowadays gone on AI and created some content clips and they. They post it out there and they're. It's all about perception.
- [32:16]
B
Yeah.
- [32:16]
A
And most of them haven't done it.
- [32:18]
B
Yeah. Could we talk about that for a second? I know when I talk about it,
- [32:21]
A
when I say done it, they haven't built a business.
- [32:23]
B
Yeah. How do you feel about that? Because there's a lot of people in the space Right now that are on stages. They are speaking around the world about, you know, they're making, they're at a $60 million a year and you read about what they've really done and they've done nothing.
- [32:38]
A
I don't really consider too much with it. I don't, I don't, I don't get distracted by that. I just stay on my mission, focus on what I want to do.
- [32:45]
B
Yeah, no, that's a fair statement. I just think as a thought leader, it does kind of oversaturate the market and it gives people that are real thought leaders a bad name that everybody's trying to be out there.
- [32:55]
A
How do you overcome that? Well, you just be authentic.
- [32:57]
B
Yeah, right.
- [32:59]
A
You go out and you be authentic and you push your stuff out there and then wake up every morning pretending nobody's ever heard of you because you got to overwhelm that. And so to me, I just, I just push my stuff out authentically. Getting out there and then building deep relationships with people, you know, and then continuous focus on growing my business. You know, if you take your focus off growing your own business, then that just feeds into that even more.
- [33:22]
B
Yeah. And if somebody, because I'm, I know you have brand deals. I'm sure you do because your podcast. So how would somebody that would want a brand deal, what would you say would be the first strategic method or step they should, they should do?
- [33:34]
A
Well, you got to start the podcast in the first place. Right. And you got to start getting some decent guests on, get consistency and then, you know, making sure you're repurposing the content and getting it out there so that you get exposure again. You're not going to get brand deals or sponsors if nobody knows who you are. So you have to do that. You have to get known. You got to be in proximity with other high level people. High, well known people. Proximity is what matters. And then when people start to see that or if you go to reach out to a brand. Right. Most people sit back and wait for one.
- [34:05]
B
Right, Right.
- [34:05]
A
They sit back and wait. And if that might happen, you might get lucky. But. But you got to be proactive and you got to reach out to brands that align with you or your show and have a good package for them to look at that shows that you have some momentum that you're in proximity to these other people that could get them exposure as well.
- [34:22]
B
I love it. I love it. I think that's the most honest. You're right. People are waiting for like them to fall out of the sky. But you got to be a little bit forward. It's your business. And I think that's where people don't understand that this is a business like anything else. And you got to work your business. Deals are not going to come to you. You have to be a little bit more proactive as a business own owner, especially if you're trying to monetize.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah. You need to think about, like, if I had money to give somebody to sponsor their show, who would I be looking for?
- [34:48]
B
Absolutely.
- [34:48]
A
And then build that.
- [34:50]
B
Have you ever. When doing. When bringing guests on, have you ever not aired and you don't have to say the guests. Have you ever not aired something that might like you thought it was going to be one way. It didn't align and you didn't air it.
- [35:02]
A
I think maybe one or two over the years.
- [35:05]
B
It just didn't align.
- [35:07]
A
Yeah. The per. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to speak anymore.
- [35:10]
B
Yeah, no, no, no, I didn't. You don't have to put the person out. What is something that. For podcasting, what is something that you wish that you knew?
- [35:18]
A
I wish I had somebody like me in my corner early on, you know, I was figuring it out on my own. And you don't have to do that nowadays. You know, when people know me, they. They can get access to people systems, process expertise that they normally wouldn't have, and they can speed up the process. So I wish I just knew. I wish I had somebody like me in my corner.
- [35:39]
B
Yeah, I. I agree. How important is mentorship, though?
- [35:43]
A
Oh, it's everything, man. I mean, get. It speeds up the process. Like, you get around people that have done it. You get to see what they did, how they did it, and you can start emulating them and thinking like them, speaking like them, doing the things they do and hanging around the people they hang around down.
- [35:58]
B
Yeah.
- [35:59]
A
And that's what those four things will cause and create a universe that you live in.
- [36:03]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people don't understand. It's just that easy. You know, I do sales also. So what I tell my salespeople, if they want to do well, get around the people that are doing well, don't go around the parking lot, powwow to the people that are in the, you know, they're in the parking lot. Oh, the lead suck this person. You go around. If you want to be a millionaire, what do you do? You sit next to the millionaire. This is. It's that easy to do. You emulate what they're doing, how they're speaking, what they're dressing like, and when you're, you create that environment for yourself, right. You're almost manifesting it to where you become successful. So I, I mean, your advice is so sound, and obviously you've done this for, for quite a long time, and your podcast continues to grow, so you should be so proud of yourself. But how many times did you fail? I, you know, we talk about our trophy room and all of our successes, but how many times did you fail before you succeeded in that?
- [36:52]
A
I don't count. Because it's not even worth the number to count. Right? You just go and, and, and you adjust. Like, it's not to me, it's like if something doesn't work out the way you expected it to, it's. I just underestimated or I, I, I predicted wrong. I had a prediction error. As my partner Jerry always says, prediction error. You just predicted wrong. So you just adjust, learn from it, and keep going. And the only, the only way you fail is if you quit. You know, you don't keep going. Until I'm plucked from this planet, I'm gonna figure out how far I can take this thing.
- [37:19]
B
I love that.
- [37:20]
A
So, yeah, but I don't, I don't really count, you know, one reason I don't count. A buddy of mine who's a billionaire told me one time he had 29 failed startups before he finally hit one. That he struck and became a billionaire.
- [37:32]
B
Yeah.
- [37:32]
A
Okay. So why count? Just keep going. And, you know, I mean, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be.
- [37:38]
B
I, I love that. Are you. But let's, I mean, on the statistics side of things, are you looking at the KPIs? Like, are you looking at when people drop off time? Are you looking at, you know, how many viewers is that? Are those metrics that you're following as
- [37:52]
A
well with the podcast, you're saying, No, I, I don't, I don't. So for me, the podcast isn't for growing it into this big, giant podcast. It'll grow on its own. But I don't concern myself with that because this isn't everything that I do. This isn't like the all end, all, be all. I use it for relationships. But it'll, it grows, you know, organically, it grows, and I'm good with that. But no, I don't look at the KPIs for that because it's not an important thing. I measure things that are important. So what's the things that are important for me? Well, my calendar's got to be filled with New people. Like, I want to talk to new people every day. I have five to eight, 15 minis a day. I got to have five to 10 podcasts a week. And then I got to convert some of those people into our network and have them part of our ecosystem, and then some of them have to come in and do podcasting with us. So I look at those numbers, and then I look at how many of those people I talked to became clients, how many of those clients came in and how many renewed with us. Like, all the business metrics, we look at those. Yeah, any. Anything that's important, you should measure, because if you're not. Not. You're not keeping score. And when you're playing a game, which this is all a game, everything's a game. The life is a game. Business is a game. You cannot have a game without keeping score.
- [38:58]
B
Absolutely. Yeah. No, I love it. So you basically. And I don't know that I'm gonna publish this part, but you use the podcast as a funnel. You use that as a funnel for relationship building, and then it trickles into everything else.
- [39:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:10]
B
Which is so smart.
- [39:11]
A
Absolutely. 100.
- [39:13]
B
Yeah. I mean, that's.
- [39:15]
A
But it's for relationships first. Like, it's got to be for relationships. It can't be to sell something. It's got to be. I want to build relationships. I want to bring people in. Matter of fact, when I do it, it's a funnel for me to serve people because I don't get much out of the network compared to the people that are in the network of what they get.
- [39:34]
B
Makes sense. No, I mean, your model, you're. And I hope anyone that's listening is listening to your model. So when you have anything. Why the importance of an ecosystem has to. Has to. To stand at the forefront as well as developing relationships. It doesn't just happen overnight, you know, like anything else. You have to build a strong foundation in order for everything else to. To work itself out. So, I mean, everything you've said today is so valuable. What is something that you've never really publicly spoken about but you think is important that's helped you grow your business?
- [40:06]
A
I don't know if I've ever publicly spoken about this, but there's definitely times when I was a younger kid growing up in the brokenness that I grew up in, that and, you know, not having a relationship with my dad and things like that. Like, I gotta. I gotta be valuable. I gotta be valuable. I gotta serve. I gotta. I gotta be. You know, people need me in their life. And I don't know if that's healthy or not, but I use that in my business. Like, I gotta be valuable to people. I gotta be so valuable. You know, I've never been fired from a job. Job.
- [40:36]
B
Oh, congratulations.
- [40:37]
A
Okay, so I don't think I've ever said that publicly, but I've never been fired from a job because I want to make myself so valuable that they. I'm indispensable.
- [40:44]
B
I love that. I. I hope that that's a big word. Indispensable. You want to be valuable and you do think. And I love what you said. You know, a lot of people have the victim mentality, but what. The brokenness. And I don't know if you want to touch on that or not, but the broken home, the brokenness. And you said that you use it in your, in your front as, as. As opposed to your trunk. But you've used that to create such an empire of positivity that allows everybody around you to thrive, which is absolutely important. So it doesn't matter where you come from or what you do. Everybody has the opportunity to be great and valued.
- [41:16]
A
So I love 100. 100. I mean, you know, I remember my dad When I was 11, 10 or 11 years old, I was moving out of his house and my stepmom's house. And he got court papers delivered to him because I told my mom I wanted to move back with her. And he crumpled up a hundred dollar bill and threw it at me and said, here, you're gonna need. You need this when you're living on the streets with your mother one day.
- [41:36]
B
Wow.
- [41:36]
A
And I was like, am I? That's a question. When I was younger, I always asked that question too. Like when I would trade, like, bounce from school to school and have people, you know, picking on you and this and that. They'd say things about you. Am I? I would ask myself that question. Am I?
- [41:50]
B
Yeah. Wow.
- [41:51]
A
You know, and so I just use that as I'll never need that money.
- [41:56]
B
And today. Do you, do you have a relationship with your dad today?
- [41:59]
A
No.
- [41:59]
B
No, you don't. But I'm sure I'm. I'm sure that you, that your kids are exorbitantly proud of you. I'm so sure of it.
- [42:09]
A
I hope so.
- [42:10]
B
I'm sure they are. I'm sure they may not admit it.
- [42:12]
A
You know, when you're, when you're living with your kids, it's like, you know, you're just, oh, he's just getting on me this and that and, you know. But one day. They'll, they'll understand.
- [42:20]
B
They will. And what do your kids think about podcasting? They think it's cool. Or they're like, eh, they think it's
- [42:25]
A
cool when I have somebody on the show that they know from YouTube or something like that, you know?
- [42:28]
B
Yeah.
- [42:29]
A
Or if I'm DMing somebody that they know, like, they'll be like, oh, that's so cool. Can you, can you tell them this, you know, this question and. But other than that, they could care less.
- [42:36]
B
Yeah, mine too. And then my daughter, she'll criticize and be like, that was so cringe that you even asked that. Why would you ask that? And then her friends will come in the house and start. They'll be like, oh, Mario, you did so great today. She was like, she'll be like, ew. No, she didn't. She was weird. It's funny though. But I appreciate you coming on here and if, you know today's guest is more than a guest. He's a networker, entrepreneur. He's a brand in himself. You have given so many amazing nuggets today. So my challenge for everybody that's out there is implement one of them. Especially if you're trying to start your own podcast. I mean, Mike laid out the secrets, he opened up his book and gave you some real authentic advice on what to do. So take advantage of it. This guy is successful. 2.2 million followers. And what is like, what is next for you? Another podcast? Where, like, where are you going next
- [43:27]
A
for me is to continue to build this network out. I want to get to a thousand members on, on the WhatsApp. We're at almost 600 now. It's only been a year since we started that.
- [43:35]
B
That's amazing.
- [43:36]
A
And I want to throw some of the most amazing events that people have life changing experiences in at quantum expansion. So love that I'm focused on. That's, that's really the two things I'm focused on right now.
- [43:46]
B
And if people want to find you, where can they find you?
- [43:49]
A
Instagram is the best place. Mikey C Rock M I K E Y C R O C Mikey C Rock. And if anybody out there wants to get and you know, move faster, go further faster and get a shortcut and they want to get exposure on top podcasts. Just DM me and. Or you can go to that one agency that. The number one agency dot com.
- [44:08]
B
There you go. I mean you had it from the man, the myth, the legend, ultimate podcaster, just creating networks and being amazing. Thank you, Mike, for coming on today. I appreciate it. I know you're super busy. Thank you so much. It was a blast.
- [44:21]
A
Appreciate you. Great job. Thank you.